Should the government have a biometric data base of all citizens?

2015-09-23T07:51:13-04:00

http://www.infowars.com/fbi-merges-criminal-and-civil-fingerprint-database/

FBI Merges Criminal and Civil Fingerprint Database

Feds building huge biometric database on all citizens.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Sep 23 at 2015 7:59 AM

2015-09-23T07:59:31-04:00

SSgt Alex Robinson for the FBI purpose, it seems like they want to keep all citizens honest, in case of criminal activity. I don't agree at the government level, state I can see.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Sep 23 at 2015 8:10 AM

2015-09-23T08:10:36-04:00

Great question. I have no desire to break any laws...yet I absolutely don't want to give my government additional power over me through the ability to track my every move without my permission. Facial recognition is even worse, as it can be used to track you from afar. It is difficult to predict the 2nd and 3rd order "programs" bureaucrats in the federal government could imagine, once they can track everyone. Just because it makes one aspect of governing easier, it does not follow that we should give up individual liberty to make it happen. Orwell anyone?

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 23 at 2015 8:15 AM

2015-09-23T08:15:29-04:00

No. Not at all. Privacy.

Biometric data is just a fancy way of saying "Medical Information."

The Citizen should have the prerogative to provide only the information they decide to the government. There will be "some" identifying information, however under no circumstances should we ever be "required" to provide medical information to our servant. Remember, it works for us, not the other way around.

Now, when applying for a license to operate "Industrial Machinery" (aka Car), you will get your picture taken, and the ID will conform to a standard. Yes, the modern standard is for "database searchable" via said picture. That is really getting into grey area, but it isn't crossing into "Medical Information" yet. When you jump into DNA though... that definitely is. Fingerprints are somewhere in between.

The common practice is for those exercising "positions of trust" whether it be security clearances, military, cops, etc to be fingerprinted. But for the normal citizen? Again, we're getting into deep grey area... with massive potential for abuse.

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 23 at 2015 8:22 AM

2015-09-23T08:22:28-04:00

They already have mine on file so complaining about it will change nothing lol.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 8:30 AM

2015-09-23T08:30:48-04:00

Though I am occasionally distressed by the level of available information the Government has at its fingertips...I am reminded that when it comes to application, they seem to fail consistently at doing anything efficiently.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Sep 23 at 2015 8:32 AM

2015-09-23T08:32:21-04:00

SSgt Alex Robinson IMO, if you are a law abiding citizen there is nothing to worry about.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Sep 23 at 2015 9:46 AM

2015-09-23T09:46:47-04:00

No.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Sep 23 at 2015 10:04 AM

2015-09-23T10:04:48-04:00

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2015/09/22/some-states-will-soon-require-a-passport-to-fly-domestically-n2055416

http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/former-officer-year-facing-child-porn-charges-homeland-security-investigation-29526.shtml?wap=0

http://www.cbs12.com/news/features/files/MichaelEdwinHardingComplaint.pdf

The short answer is absolutely not. This is the land of the free, not George Orwell's 1984.

I used to work as a security officer, and as such had to be fingerprinted. It was a requirement to get that license in Florida. I currently work for a company that provides financial services, and needed to be fingerprinted. It is a SEC/FINRA regulatory requirement, and understandable being that we deal with very sensitive information. I am going to apply for a Florida Concealed Weapon Permit, and as a requirement of that license, I will be fingerprinted yet again. Additionally I was fingerprinted during my time in the Navy. All of those I understand as they involved a necessary background check. I do not believe that the Federal government, or any government agency for that matter, has any business keeping tabs on the American People.

Tracking leads to monitoring. Monitoring leads to interfering. As proof of this I refer to the first link above. The Real ID Act. The DHS/TSA is going to be limiting air travel without either a passport or an enhanced ID card. This is patently against what this country stands for. It is not going to stop terrorists. A person dedicated to causing harm, and willing to die for their cause is not going to be thwarted by a gold star on a Driver's License.

Furthermore, background checks and fingerprinting are not necessarily an indicator that a person is going to be crime free. We have a developing story here in FL about an officer who was named "Officer of the Year" for his department, and is currently being charged with child pornography. I have included links above. So the reality is that people are going to do what they are going to do.

Enhanced ID, Fingerprints, Background Checks, DNA sampling, phone data collection, and any other tactic used to prevent these acts are going to have a greater impact on the ordinary person trying to get through their daily life than they are on a person with nefarious intent. It may make it easier to catch them after the fact. It is not going to stop them from acting. In the case of terrorism, catching them after the fact is too late. I personally think that a vigilant, educated, concerned citizenry is a better weapon for stopping these things. Case in point Shoe bomber, Paris Train, Underwear bomber. All stopped by citizens paying attention, and acting when they saw something not quite right. Ok, granted in all three cases, the terrorist had a small success before being thwarted. In the case of both bombers, their explosive device failed due to excessive moisture. In the case of the Paris Train, the shooter got off several rounds, and fought against those who tried to subdue him. All three managed to successfully make it to their target area.

Rant over.

Leah Barkoukis - Travelers From Some States Will Soon Be Required to Show a Passport to Fly...

Beginning in 2016, individuals from New York, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Louisiana, and American Samoa will no longer be able to board a domestic commercial flight with their just their drivers licenses as proof of identification.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 23 at 2015 10:33 AM

2015-09-23T10:33:05-04:00

No the risks out weigh the potential benefits SSgt Alex Robinson.
(1) The government has a significant problem keeping databases with other sensitive information such as Social Security Number information secure.
(2) The US government is a very tempting target for hackers from wannabes through sophisticated foreign governments.
(3) Gathering bio-metric information for law-abiding citizens would be difficult enough. Many would simply sign releases to whatever HHS or other organization is responsible [Bureau of Census would need a separate releases form for the data to be incorporated in their databases - not a comforting thought :-)]
(4) Gathering bio-metric information for prisoners would bang into many law suits.
(5) Gathering information on documented aliens, terrorists and other people who are deliberately laying low would be incredibly difficult.
(6) For law abiding citizens the bio-metric data could be linked to SSN. What system would be used for the undocumented people and the terrorists, uncaught criminals, etc.?
COL Mikel J. Burroughs, LTC Stephen C., PO3 Steven Sherrill, SGT Forrest Stewart, SGT Randal Groover, SGT Private RallyPoint Member, SGT Robert Hawks

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 10:37 AM

2015-09-23T10:37:30-04:00

I can understand the concern, but yes. The problem with the criminal database was that it was only any good the second time a criminal did something (after they'd been caught once). This makes the job of tracking them down pretty hard. Combining the two just makes sense.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Sep 23 at 2015 12:24 PM

2015-09-23T12:24:33-04:00

Unfortunately technology has made privacy a thing of the past.

Response by SGT Forrest Stewart made Sep 23 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-09-23T15:07:12-04:00

No.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Sep 24 at 2015 2:10 AM

2015-09-24T02:10:33-04:00

I think that fingerprints and the likes should be automatically entered into the FBI data base for everyone rather than just criminals or people applying for certain jobs. Could make tracing suspects involved in violent crimes far easier.

We do need to be careful to some extent as to how far we got with what we track on our people. We want to be able to track down criminals but we need to be doing it in a way that isn't going to be violating the rights or privacy of the innocent.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 10:57 PM

2015-09-25T22:57:17-04:00

For conspiracy theory folks, what makes you think that they do not already have that?

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jul 28 at 2019 7:17 AM

2019-07-28T07:17:30-04:00

Politicians n criminals.. well there are cross overs

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 28 at 2019 12:30 PM

2019-07-28T12:30:06-04:00

Only those, who have been tried and convicted of felonius acts, by a jury of their peers; showing that they are not to be trusted in the society of responsible adults.