Should the GRE be required for Captains Career Course? What is the benefit of this?

2019-07-29T11:47:37-04:00

https://www.army.mil/standto/archive_2019-07-26/?s_cid=standto?DMD

STAND-TO! provides the official focus of the US Army.

Response by CPT Enrique M. made Jul 29 at 2019 12:20 PM

2019-07-29T12:20:16-04:00

No especially if you already have a grad school degree. Also test scores do not determine if you are better or worst than the next guy.

Personally I already have a career and the last thing I want to do is study for a GRE

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jul 29 at 2019 12:40 PM

2019-07-29T12:40:40-04:00

I see no real short-term problem with this. It is not required to attend the CCC, but is required to be taken once attending the CCC. So, it's more of a built-in part of the CCC rather than being a pre-condition of attending. The main benefit is that the GRE will serve as yet another data point that can be helpful in selecting the right officers for subsequent advanced civilian and military schooling opportunities. Given that the Army is funding the cost, the officer is not being handed an unfunded financial requirement. Long-term, it can be problematic. Standardized tests have been shown to have biases, as well as not always being the best predictors of success.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 1:48 PM

2019-07-29T13:48:26-04:00

This strikes me as one of those things the Army does for you (like paying you twice a month or scheduling your dental appointments) that you NEED but might not otherwise do yourself. Graduate degrees are becoming more and more commonplace in our formations (as they become more and more required to obtain quality civilian employment), and the exposure one gets in any masters program to higher-level thought and analysis will only improve their capacity for management and decision making. If you’re going to be sitting somewhere for an extended period of time (i.e. an active duty CCC), might as well log this small win and at least begin to consider what that next educational hurdle will be. Just try to avoid the MBAs, gang — I’m happy to explain to anyone who’s considering that route why you’d be better off with a Masters in Basket Weaving.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 2:56 PM

2019-07-29T14:56:00-04:00

should the ACT, SAT or PSAT be required for ALC-NCCC?

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 1:28 AM

2019-07-30T01:28:17-04:00

Seems like a one size fits all policy that doesn't equally fit all branches.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 11:50 AM

2019-07-30T11:50:03-04:00

Is this required for USAR? I can tell you right now, there are a lot of USAR officers who already have advanced degrees not in any sort of competition for grad school slots that are not going to care one iota about their GRE performance. With a USAR CCC process of 90% on-line at home, and 2 week in class final phase, where does this GRE requirement fit in? The USAR is already sending newly minted 1LT's to CCC ASAP (I put mine off because I took command). So if GRE becomes a requirement prior to the final in class phase I suspect USAR CCC attendance rates will fall even further.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 8:26 PM

2019-07-30T20:26:12-04:00

It’s not required that you pass or have a competitive score, it won’t effect you DA1059, so it shouldn’t be an issue. This is a part of talent management. When you ask officers why they don’t apply for graduate programs, the answer is always “I’m afraid to take the GRE/GMAT!”. This will give the Army a tool to seek out those officers who have potential for advanced degree. Not just Masters, but PhD or DBA, etc. You have to look at the big picture, a pool of qualified officers to fill school slots that go empty every year!

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jul 30 at 2019 11:37 PM

2019-07-30T23:37:15-04:00

SSG Carlos Madden As someone who got a shot at Grad School simply because I had decent GRE scores on file at HRC (I had a five year saga as a CPT trying to go to grad school and a denied request for ACS when selected after I'd given up). Branch uses it as a litmus test and many graduate schools use it as an entrance requirement. I would say only having the GRE is short sighted. Logistics Branch will not really want to send people to a degree that requires a GRE, more than likely theyll go to MBA and Logistics degree programs looking for the GMAT. There are other tests such as Miller Analogies....sure there are others that are for more specialized programs. GRE and GMAT are the big dogs.

If this were step one in the journey to get graduate degrees from CCC attendance through a combination of resident, 3rd party classes, and maybe an online component, this would be great. It would also be great if this was a vehicle to send more officers to grad school. The GRE score may offer some more opportunity to get to other degree programs that the Army might try and cultivate some more diverse in fields of expertise, especially if this talent management is really a thing. Usually the real diverse academic preparation comes out of the functional areas like FA59 Strategic Plans and Policy or the full time Academy Professors.

CPT Enrique M. I studied for the GRE while I was a BN S3. I studied for the GMAT for a week (MBA program deadline vs Army notification of ACS selection) while in Company Command and had a 1 year old running around and still had scores that were competitive. its not rocket surgery. Both times I got a Kaplan guide with a CD. Took the pre-test. Did the tutorials. There wasnt much studying out side that. Not all graduate programs are created equally, some are more rigorous than others. Some have higher bars for admission. I can see if you have a graduate degree, it could be waived, but at the same time, they may want you to get another one in a specific field or program. If you dont take it you may self-select out of an internship (example TWI), fellowships (Rand Arroyo, JFK School of Government at Harvard), sister service and joint ILE (they all have accredited graduate programs), etc. Not all of those require GRE/GMAT scores but many do.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2019 11:33 AM

2019-08-01T11:33:14-04:00

I guess the important thing is to understand how this is tracked and used. Is it an OER bullet? It could be just as much as it could not hit an OER. Even so, so what. So the question is, where in the system is this tracked and what way is it used to influence promotions or assignments other than school slots? If it’s needed for CCC completion at what point as a USAR officer am I going to be told it needs to be done? The army doesn’t pay the mortgage, and to be surprised when the suspense on this is will jack up how I allocate time to the on line portion of CCC.

I mean for Christ sake, I am still red flagged from deployment because I show up on the UMR as non branch qualified 00A because the system can’t seem to post my BOLC credentials even though I’ve gone round about with RPAC twice and everything BOLC related is iPerm’d.

So where in the system of much ignored data are GRE results going to be housed? Do they go to the army from the student or are they sent to the army directly from the GRE administrators like the army was a grad school in order to ensure the integrity of the test score?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2019 9:27 PM

2019-08-04T21:27:25-04:00

Hopefully this is not the education industry finding a new enticement for you to trade your 911GIB for one of these specially tailored six week masters degrees. Oh, I get a semester's credit for BCT ten years ago? Sign me up....

Response by CPT Richard Boye made Sep 29 at 2019 7:15 AM

2019-09-29T07:15:14-04:00

I am puzzled why you are asking this question, since you are an NCO? However, regarding the GRE question. I am assuming that you are speaking of the exam that is required for some College Masters programs. As I was an MSC and NBC officer. For the medical side of the house, it was a step up over other officer branches. For MSC it was required to have a Master's degree to be promoted past captain. Thus the benefit would be that you are not stuck, or booted out, at Captain.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Sep 29 at 2019 10:14 AM

2019-09-29T10:14:06-04:00

That is a quite interesting question...I'd seen stuff of late that many grad programs were apparently not harping on GRE any longer...if one is doctoral level, I've read stuff a long while that GRE can actually be waiverable, however, that is an interesting aspect I hadn't considered, certainly....

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Sep 29 at 2019 10:16 AM

2019-09-29T10:16:28-04:00

Thing is, though, if Army insisted on it, wouldn't USAF have to for their SOS and ACSC, as well as all the war colleges and/or other command and staff type programs, ya know? I mean, just a thought, of course...I'd just figured what'd be needed for the goose might also be insisted on for the gander, as well, ya know? Still, as I'd said, it's an interesting question, certainly...then, too, might GMAT or LSAT possibly satisfy such a need, as well, perhaps? Just another errant thought as I'd typed this....

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Sep 29 at 2019 11:10 PM

2019-09-29T23:10:31-04:00

I suspect a lot of us have graduate degrees. Making the GRE part of what I understand is an optional program as one moves up the ranks does not seem overburdensome. Having said that, if someone has already taken the GRE/GMAT and gotten a satisfactory score it would seem that should be accepted as having satisfied the requirement.