Should the military create a warrior class?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:41:18 -0500

I believe Infantry and Operators should be treated with a higher regard in the military.

Even officers and NCOs of all other military specialties should show respect to our nation's true warriors.

The general military is doing a good job of promoting everyone is a warrior but those non combat arms specialties do not train or destroy their bodies like true combatants. I would even say that infantry line medics and navy corpsman that are attached to the marines deserve the same regard.

This is not intended as a put down of other specialties but an awareness that some put in more than others in combat arms.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 10:47 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:47:39 -0500

What about those REMF transport boys that always got hit on convoys?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 11:06 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:06:21 -0500

Growing up and having chores that my brothers and I worked on at the same time we had an understanding that as long as the job gets done it does not matter who did more (one doesn't get more recognition than the other) I brought this mentality into the military with me. If I do less work and the job gets done fine. If I do more work and the job gets done fine. While I do agree that combat arms have the heavier job load we can't do that job without the support units. I didn't join to get medals or special recognition I don't care if you do more or less as long as the job gets done.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Dec 1 at 2015 11:09 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:09:46 -0500

Why? Why make a bigger separation than there already is? Sure, the 11 series and all combat arms MOS deserve a little extra. Let them have first call in the mess hall and stuff but why call for them to be placed in "a higher regard". Do we not all go off to fight? Sure, some may be safer than others but we all leave our families behind. While I was say that the conditions may not always be the same for combat arms compared to support MOSs, this just rubs me the wrong way. I'm sure this is just a baiting post where guys will come to measure their manhood but I will never tolerate the call to drive a wedge into the brother/sisterhood that the military is. Sure, joke about it and whatnot. Enjoy the Army v Navy game and all that but at the end of the day, none of us could do our job without the other. Bullets don't wrong in the field, pallets of fresh water don't just appear. So enough with the male measuring contests.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Dec 1 at 2015 11:11 AM

MAJ Jim Steven — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:11:24 -0500

I get what you are saying...but think it wouldn't end well.
We have enough genital measuring in the military as it is...I refer you to the question, on RP, "if you never deployed, are you really a veteran?"
you say that some put in more than others? I respect that some guys sit on a flight line for hours at a time, to jump out of the plane in the middle of the night....but I also respect the guy who sits in a windowless room and stares at imagery all day long to provide the TOC some valuable information about where to jump or who surfs the social media of the middle east trying to predict the next attack...

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 1 at 2015 11:29 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:29:01 -0500

Why? If it wasn't for the support guys, the infantry would be nothing more than a bunch of weaponless, vehicleless naked dudes running around throwing rocks (for no pay).

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 11:39 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:39:05 -0500

If you are in the military and you have executed the mission and your job as given. And, not dodged another job, why would anyone place others above or below you?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 11:44 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:44:21 -0500

To earn respect, you have to give respect. Just because we served in combat arms makes us not better than soldiers in support roles. We all signed the dotted line to do the jobs WE chose.

Response by SGT David T. made Dec 1 at 2015 11:50 AM

SGT David T. — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:50:07 -0500

After I stopped laughing hysterically at the complete total absurdity of this post I can finally respond. I hate to break it to you but your average support Soldier puts in more and harder work than you do. I started off as 11B and reclassed to 92F so I seen both sides. I worked way harder doing fuel than I ever did as a grunt. Let me put this into perspective. The last unit I was in supported a heavy brigade. The grunts came out trained for 30 days and went home. My unit was out there 120 days supporting them working 12-18 hours at a clip nonstop. So tell me how it is that support MOS's don't train. Oh and destroying one's body, try and lift a 4 inch bulk fuel transfer hose full of fuel and tell me how they don't destroy their bodies. If anyone needs awareness it is you. You have no concept of what it is that everyone else does and how they fit into the fight. Remember that the next time you need fuel, ammo, food, medical supplies, transportation, maintenance, medevac etc.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 11:51 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:51:47 -0500

Allow me to be blunt... When I saw this notification I never thought in my wildest dreams it was by a fellow SFC. If antone does this for respect they are in the wrong line of work. With that being said, Respect given is respect earned. It takes 8 POGs for 1 Grunt, it's mutal respect that keeps the guys on the ground killing and burning. Every POG that doesn't do his job is a grunt off the line doing that job. As long as the POGs do their jobs so my boys get what they need that's all the respect I need.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 11:52 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 11:52:18 -0500

SFC Esquivel-In general, I do get (and respect) where you're coming from. In terms of "pointy end of the spear" comparisons...yes, I would defer to a PFC in the Big Red One when relating specific expertise/experience in combat arms; more so, any member of elite forces.

However...We fight in a much more complex and widespread battle-space than that.

An aviator flying missions over enemy held territory faces enormous risks; before, during and after ejection. Sailors at sea have been actively prosecuting interdiction operations against the desperate criminals supporting our enemies-criminals who sometimes fight rather than surrender at the first sign of a U.S. warship. With the increasing op-tempo, numerous Navy, Air Force and National Guard personnel have been asked to "fill in" duties on the ground, and outside the wire. Of the three combat losses I personally experienced with the JTF; two were National Guardsmen, and the third, a doctor.

Are any of those "equal" to infantry, let alone elite forces-No. Still, they are taking risks that exceed their designator, rating or MOS routinely, and that, in and of itself, counts for something.

All of that aside...None of us get to the AO without logistics, communications, hell, even finance. Those folks are doing their job so that everyone else can do theirs.

More to the point, I think sincere and rightly earned respect DOES exist; When I see a trident, jump wings, red or green berets, crossed arrows, or those much discussed "tabs"...the rank/service of that individual suddenly pales against what I know they've endured in defense of every American, myself included.

I hope when they see my uniform, they at least give it the benefit of the doubt that I've participated enough for my sincere respect to mean something.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 12:01 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:01:36 -0500

So the troops that die trying to resupply is lesser??? or the Sailor that sink to the bottom of ocean trying to ship you your tanks??? or the pilot that incinerated by a missile trying to drop a bomb on the target you asking for??

.... I wanted to down vote you ... but I can understand why you think that way. but it is wrong.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Dec 1 at 2015 12:17 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:17:01 -0500

Will you still regard your "true Warriors" above others when you run out of ammo or food? How about when your equipment breaks down? Where is your regard for the intelligence analyst who ruins his eyes scanning satellite images for untold hours looking for data you need to target? What about the clerk who gets the paperwork organized so all of your assets can be on the same page at the same time? It goes all the way down to the grunt who sweeps out the mess hall so you can eat in comfort. I haven't read the comments of others yet. I'm glad you brought your question out, for I believe it to expose a weakness in the concept of TEAM. From the recruit to the Commanding Officer, every one has to perform for you to win. You have the best training because of the guys who stayed behind to teach. You have the best equipment because of the guy who stayed behind to design. You have the best fighting men because you have a wonderful nation who stayed behind to give you the best raw material. Instead of regarding your fellow warriors as a cut above, you should be in awe of those who provided your fellows to be those warriors. God Bless all of you!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 12:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:20:47 -0500

Ha! Do you realize what you have done! Lol.

Response by LTC David Brown made Dec 1 at 2015 12:33 PM

LTC David Brown — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:33:56 -0500

Ever read or heard of "Who Packed Your Parachute"? Hot shot navy fighter pilot got shot down in Vietnam . Eventually retired and started being a motivational speaker. After a speech a fellow walked up and ask if he were on a certain aircraft carrier during a certain time off the coast of Vietnam. The pilot said yes I was. The fellow told the pilot, I packed your parachute. The pilot realized how many people he never even thought about made what he did possible. If the fellow packing the chute had been a goof off etc. the pilot wouldn't have been there. When part of the teeth get shot up they (hopefully) are thankful there are skilled medical personnel to put them together, when the aircraft takes off for a parachute insertion I am sure the troopers are glad there is a qualified pilot, the aircraft was serviced by qualified personnel etc. It all works together. That being said I do hold combat arms a higher esteem than other MOS's.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 1 at 2015 12:34 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:34:49 -0500

Kind of like the difference between aircrew and ground-pounders in the AF?

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Dec 1 at 2015 12:42 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:42:38 -0500

The military IS the warrior class. Those serving represent the 1% willing to swear the oath. How much more can you ask of a person? And why would we want to divide our tiny representation among the populace even further?

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Dec 1 at 2015 12:52 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:52:49 -0500

Should Infantry and Operators be treated with higher regard in the military? I disagree with this statement for several reasons:
1. The Army is a team sport not an individual sport. Saying infantry and operators should be treated with higher regard is the same as saying a QB or running back in football is more important than the other positions, a pitcher in baseball, or a goalie in soccer/hockey. I argue that the greatest QB or RB goes nowhere without a decent line to create the holes.
2. Everyone in the Army is expected to be able fight, not just the infantry or operators. Again using a sports analogy, a kicker or punter does not do a majority of the blocking and tackling but they are expected to be able to block and tackle just like the other players. Is the kicker/punter any less a member of the team and should be treated with less regard?
3. Define "respect", "higher regard", and "true warriors". Do you feel that infantry and operators are not getting enough "respect" and "higher regard" currently? What are we talking here? More/better awards? More pay? Special ceremonies? Really?
4. Inconsistent logic. Not clear how you are equating infantry and operators with infantry line medics and navy corpsman. The latter are obviously not "true combatants" by a legal standard so not sure what definition and standard you are using. Other MOSs also "train and destroy their bodies" if that is the standard you are using. Some infantry (Stryker/Bradley) are much like Armor so should they be treated with "less regard" because they are not training and destroying their bodies like the light infantry do?
5. I am all for being proud of your branch/MOS but I am not sure why that alone is not good enough and "higher regard" is required.

Response by SGT James Sims made Dec 1 at 2015 12:56 PM

SGT James Sims — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:56:41 -0500

No!

Response by SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood made Dec 1 at 2015 1:02 PM

SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 13:02:37 -0500

So i guess that medic or mechanic that just shot the enemy to save your @ss is not not as good you or other soldiers,we all went through the same basic combat training at one point to be a team,I do understand that those who chose special ops ,do have special skills that are used for special warfare .So that being said 11B is just another MOS in the Army

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 1 at 2015 1:39 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 13:39:13 -0500

As former aviation and armor I have always respected the grunts even if they were egocentric bastards. They train hard and fight the dangerous battles, it is not the profession for the weak.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Dec 1 at 2015 2:02 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 14:02:09 -0500

You think so, eh.
"During World War II, the U.S. Navy's submarine service suffered the highest casualty percentage of all the American armed forces, losing one in five submariners. Some 16,000 submariners served during the war, of whom 375 officers and 3131 enlisted men were killed."

We all have our turn in the barrel.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 1 at 2015 2:57 PM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 14:57:17 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I am not going to give you a down vote even though my first reaction was to do just that.

I will give you that 11 Bang Bangs are why we are all in the Army. You're either are infantry or you support infantry, but your elitist mentality is way off. When your infantryman does not get paid guess who is the most important person in that soldiers life...finance. When he can't get mommy's cookies guess who is the most important..postal clerks. When he is in a fire fight and about to get overrun, I am pretty sure it is who the hell can pick up a weapon and help.

You statement goes against everything the Army stands for from the Army Values, to the Warrior Ethos, and the Soldiers Creed.

I would expect that kind of thought process from a PFC, but not a SFC who has enough time in the Army to know better. It is just a shame.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Dec 1 at 2015 3:20 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 15:20:15 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member - Spoken by a person who has not experienced life in other branches/MOS's.

I have been in both the Infantry and Military Police and have commanded personnel from a wide variety of branches/MOS's/services. I have seen no significant differences in the training and "destruction of bodies" between the various specialties in the Army and, in many instances, in the other services, as well (depending on MOS/specialty).

All military personnel should be equally respected... There is no sense in treating some with higher regard. They are all "true warriors".

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Dec 1 at 2015 4:40 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 16:40:33 -0500

You can't mandate "regard" any more than you can mandate respect...It's earned! That said, your question reminds me of something often repeated by folks in my first AF Specialty: "Without AMMO the Air Force is just another poorly ran Airline". Somehow, I think it's the same in the Army, without support the Operators would have a very short lifespan.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 5:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:55:59 -0500

I just wanted to see where everyone would go with this. I'm seeing a lot more my without my specialty there would be no you.

This question was asked more out of people looking at themselves and asking where do I fit in? It was also asked because true Combat arms guys need more help when they come back. That should not go through the same "one shot" classes everyone else does. They need to feel safe and know that they will not be seen as lesser when asking for help. I spent many years with undiagnosed PTSD because it's not what we get. I went to mental health a few times but it was packed with cooks, supply PAX and a lot of other sustainment personnel. I did not feel comfortable because I know in my heart that they do not endure stuff on a day to day basis like we do. I would have felt more secure going in with my brothers.

My question was for my research so I can pitch some new stuff to G.Os.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Dec 1 at 2015 8:25 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:25:35 -0500

From Animal Farm by George Orwell.......
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all ... ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS" Chapter 10, pg. 112.

As an "Infantryman with a terminal case of Dumb-ass" I can categorically state that warriors are warriors and some are closer to the tip of the spear than others but they are all warriors. Neither can do without the other.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 11:46 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 23:46:52 -0500

I hate being called a "warrior". To me that makes me little better than barbarian. I am a SOLDIER. I am an expert and a professional. I follow the rules of war and ROE. I am not one who " makes war" I am one who ends them.

... And where does the CIB go again?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 12:11 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 00:11:31 -0500

That sounds about as sensible as you groveling before me as a God of the skies. Your move.

Response by PO2 Wesley Wilson made Dec 2 at 2015 1:07 AM

PO2 Wesley Wilson — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 01:07:45 -0500

“I believe Infantry and Operators should be treated with a higher regard in the military.

Even officers and NCOs of all other military specialties should show respect to our nation's true warriors. “
I am trying very hard to be kind in my reply.
Have you lost your freaking mind? What would you have everyone do? Bow? Avert their eyes from the greatness that is you? Maybe turn their backs or be careful to not cast a shadow upon you?
Get over yourself. I have no idea how you got the rank you have with that type of attitude so now its school time. All military service members deserve respect, they deserve it not because its automatically given but because they earn it. Take a look at the causes of injury and death in ALL branches of service and open your jaded mind. You will see that accidents are the leading cause of injury and death. These accidents” are people doing their jobs, it’s a dangerous life no matter what your job is.
Do I have respect for the man that wear a CIB or CAR? You bet your ass I do. Do I have respect for that poor SOB who has worked his ass off to keep a unit mission capable? Even more so because he doesn’t get the recognition he deserves.
Here is a bit of a news flash, what many consider to be one of our greatest military experts and General officers never heard a shot fired in anger, he had no combat ribbons or medals. He was a genius in logistics and managing people. His name was Dwight Eisenhower.

Response by SCPO Joshua I made Dec 2 at 2015 8:55 AM

SCPO Joshua I — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 08:55:58 -0500

The military has a warrior class. Yeah, 11Bs are part of it, but you're not as special as the 75th, you're not as special as the 82nd, you're not as special as the SEAL teams, you're not as special as the USAF CCTs and PJs, you're not as special as a straight stick 0311 Marine, you're not as special as an SBT member, you're not as special as an EOD tech...

And none of those special "warrior class" people can do their jobs if my team doesn't do theirs.

I wrote a JSCM with Combat V for an ET2 once -- know what he did? He went up on a roof under fire and fixed a MK-19 for the Marines who couldn't fix it. He's a communications tech. After he did that, he worked with them to continue to suppress the enemy until they could all be flown out. Does he get to be part of the "warrior class"?

How about PFC Patrick Miller -- the transportation guy who saved Jessica Lynch' life, along with their whole team? Awarded a Silver Star for his actions as I recall, he's a farm kid from not far from my home town. Does he get to be part of the "warrior class" even though he's not an 11B? How about Staff Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester -- does she get to be a part of the "warrior class"? She's an MP in the national guard, women weren't even allowed to be in combat when she earned her Silver Star.

Get off your high horse. This isn't sparta. You're part of a team that should have a single mission focus and should get the job done without a bunch of attempts to divide and pontificate about how much better you are than everybody else.

Response by SSG David Dickson made Dec 2 at 2015 10:14 AM

SSG David Dickson — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 10:14:05 -0500

There is a warrior class. 3 actually, 1) operators, 2) infantry 3) anyone else with a CAB. Then there's the rest of us.

No, non-warrior class Soldiers don't need to be treating you like you won the MOH. There may be a lot of us who aren't "Warriors" per my definition above, but we are all Soldiers.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 10:49 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 10:49:58 -0500

If a man/woman is truly respectable, his attitude, his work and accomplishments will speak for himself. Asking for extra "respect" shows disrespect to others, it is condescending. At the end we all die the same, how do we judge who have given more? Only the ones who had died for our country deserve extra respect. Many of them weren't infantrymen or special forces soldiers, but don't see them running around asking for it, do we?

Oh wait... They can't coz they are all dead...

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Dec 2 at 2015 10:55 AM

MAJ Alvin B. — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 10:55:49 -0500

I would respectfully disagree. There is an old saw "Amateurs discuss tactics - Professionals discuss logistics." The warrior ethos is not limited to just warriors. Everyone gets some level of combat training upon entry into the service. However, select members go on to advanced combat training, while still others go on to further specialization in combat (SOF, etc...).
IMHO every uniformed service member must know how to fight and win (there are no front lines) if the need arises.
However that fighting ability is not always going to be called upon, or executed with a bayonet, pistol or rifle [How adept are you with electronic warfare, directed energy weapons, cyber systems, etc...?]. The pointy end of the sword is only as effective as the steel from which it was forged, the pointy end of the spear is useless without the shaft to which it is mounted. It is not just about the skill of the warrior who wields it on the battle field.
My point is this, it takes all kinds of warrior to ensure we are able to project, sustain and maintain combat power in any situation from the bottom of the sea to the deepest cold outer space. Being a warrior is not simply about being able to inflict bodily harm on others.
In reality, in America, forty-two years volunteer military service has created a warrior class. Roughly speaking we have @300 Million citizens in this country and less then 2 million in uniform (all components), that is less that 1%. In total, less than 7% of the population has ever served in the military.

Response by SSgt Tim Ricci made Dec 2 at 2015 11:43 AM

SSgt Tim Ricci — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 11:43:11 -0500

There already is! But most of them are dead!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 12:09 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 12:09:24 -0500

I think people already regard operators with respect, and said operators aren't going around looking for more respect.
I think what you really want, is to be respected like said operators, which you shouldn't be. I've seen one too many shitheads in infantry to give them respect other than what's earned.

Response by SGT Michael Fry made Dec 2 at 2015 12:26 PM

SGT Michael Fry — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 12:26:24 -0500

when I first joined my grandfather (WW2 vet) gave me a bit of advice, he told me while as an infantry man I may be the tip of the spear there are four "men" you will always pay homage to, Your medic, your Cook, your Quartermaster, and your fueler. With out them your just sitting there cold hungry and bleeding. With that in mind I joined and while I was an infantryman I learned my grandfather was right about it but there is a lot more out there that make the mission go right. AS an infantryman you may be the tip of the spear but someone needs to hold that spear to make sure it goes true.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 12:32 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 12:32:38 -0500

I disagree. I am an Infantryman, and while I do appreciate when people listen to what I have to say, and give me the credit for what I do know, grunts and Medics are no more special than any other MOS or Branch. After all, boys don't fly without Supply! To think otherwise is folly, and it is a very narrow-minded and narcissistic way to think. Now, that being said, I am far from the mindset of "everyone is equal." But we are all a team. Do I stop and listen to an Infantry NCO about tactics and strategem long before I listen to a PAC clerk? Yes. But I also understand that I, as the boots-on-the-ground force, cannot operate without my support guys getting me what I need to accomplish the mission.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Dec 2 at 2015 12:49 PM

SSG Todd Halverson — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 12:49:25 -0500

Ummmmm. Wake up and smell coffee, oh wait you wouldn't be able to unless a cook got up hours before to start preparing and cooking the food.
There is so much I could say about this post, but I won't.

All I can say is come back to the real world and deflate your ego. Without the support guys you would be worthless. Hopefully you realize that sooner than later.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 2 at 2015 2:01 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 14:01:22 -0500

I have given them respect despite their behavior. There were many times when I drove my tanks to or by light infantry only to get booed or called names. Respect is a two way street.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 2:05 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 14:05:48 -0500

"A Warrior is a quiet professional, one that also sacrifices his body, his youth and his mental health but not for applause or recognition. He commits himself to his craft and dedicates his life to a cause that few will ever understand and even fewer still will ever see. He walks until his feet are bloody stumps hoping those dear to him will never experience the noose of tyranny. He voluntarily deploys himself to the most austere environments in the world and repeatedly does the dirty work of his nation. Decisions that would take most weeks to make he decisively executes before his next inhalation. He holds the life of those around him in the distal phalanges of a single finger. He flows silently into the homes of the world’s most dangerous men with the autonomy to take their lives. He has no concern of who feeds upon his cost, and his victories will never be celebrated in a packed stadium. And after the battle is over and the smell of war has left his nares the memories of his actions will be carried like cinder blocks upon his back. He will continue to shoulder more than his share of the task, without ceremony. This man is a warrior. This man is the reason we can sit and enjoy the displays of the gladiator."

http://havokjournal.com/culture/a-warrior-defined/

A Warrior Defined

I was sitting at a football game a week ago when these two distinct memories came to surface. Someone described one of the players as a "Warrior” and I couldn't help but find that designation inaccurate.

Response by SSG Bradley Ford made Dec 2 at 2015 2:29 PM

SSG Bradley Ford — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 14:29:39 -0500

Yes because only a few will join so we have to be more like old cultures. Sparta

Response by SGT Curtis Earl made Dec 2 at 2015 4:10 PM

SGT Curtis Earl — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:10:59 -0500

That's dumb. If you need external gratification like that, then you don't deserve it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 4:21 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:21:36 -0500

So you saying my ass walking in front of 11B towards the enemy and driving around just to get the case of IEDs and being shot at or doing SQB, raids, foot patrols, basically everything infantry is except in name. As 19D required to basically breathe down the enemy's neck until infantry shows up doesn't make 19D being placed into high tegard? Or perhaps those line combat engineers who had been busy taking down buildingx in Falujiah or Ramadi with explosives, or those combat engineers clearing obstacles on the Omaha Beach are not to be considered at higher regard?

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Dec 2 at 2015 4:22 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:22:36 -0500

I'm sure you mean well by this but I would add that such a "class" already exists and it is called the Combat Arms (Infantry, Armor, Combat Engineers). And even within the combat arms there are tiers; (Conventional Infantry, Rangers (Regiment not tab), SF/Navy Seals, ACE) with conventional Infantry being the lowest. We all play our role.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 4:32 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:32:57 -0500

Divisive and useless....

Response by 1SG Jacob Baty made Dec 2 at 2015 4:34 PM

1SG Jacob Baty — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:34:07 -0500

This post reminds me of the Spartans talking to the Athenians prior to fighting the Persians.

I am going to take the low road here and say this is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen on RP.

oh, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how this was not supposed to be a put down and I am a grunt.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 4:34 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:34:15 -0500

Decisive and elitist........

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 4:34 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:34:41 -0500

Not going to down-vote this, though it desperately deserves it. You lose the internet for the day. This is so obscenely off message from what the Army is about that I am at a loss for words. I respect everyone for doing their job and for who they are...until the prove otherwise...like you just did.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 4:35 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:35:25 -0500

I would hate for my brothers to look down on me for not being combat arms. That would make me less of a soldier if I gave them more respect than others. We all go through the same things, he'll I've seen some 42a's with a c.a.b. And more ribbons than a grunt so

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Dec 2 at 2015 4:38 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:38:22 -0500

What a complete load of drivel...and from a Sr NCO no less, seems someone didn't receive that bit of colored ribbon that he coveted at some point in time.....

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Dec 2 at 2015 4:40 PM

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:40:26 -0500

How about you try to be a Parachute Rigger, and then come tell me about destroyed bodies. Then give being a 88M a try and see how endless convoy operations sit on you. Operators are more highly regarded and deservingly so. I haven't had to have this blue cord bullshit conversation in over a decade because I obviously know a higher grade of soldier than you are sarnt. As for your "true warrior" comment, for christ's sake man I would love to hear you tell the troops that have been blown to shit by IEDs that they aren't warriors. If you want to be elite get a Tab, a Scroll, or Delta designation, if not, and your content to be seen as a guy who failed the ASVAB for your entire career then fine, left right left your dumb leg self all around post and paint a curb and shut the hell up. No Wings, no Tabs, no Scroll, no ambition.

It might not have been intended to be a put-down but you didn't take the time to word it in a way to convey your thoughts without coming off as a dumb grunt. You give the Infantry a bad name.

Response by Maj Jeff Dodd made Dec 2 at 2015 4:54 PM

Maj Jeff Dodd — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:54:40 -0500

Warrior class is not an MOS, it's a mindset and lifestyle. Just ask SSgt. Spencer Stone and his boys who jumped the armed thug on the train in France and beat that turd to within an inch of his life. Stone is a USAF medical technician (not sure what his Army NG buddy's MOS was, but pretty sure he wasn't a Delta Operator or SF ninja). Those three badasses just proved that unarmed determined "warriors" can and will prevail against overwhelming odds. Everybody knows who the door kickers are and we are real proud of you, but you don't get your own parking spot at the PX. How about you buy a POG a beer sometime at the bar and thank him/her for supporting the fight? Quiet professionals don't need a special class or more accolades to motivate them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 4:55 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:55:53 -0500

Yes

Response by SPC Raul Santiago made Dec 2 at 2015 5:04 PM

SPC Raul Santiago — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:04:32 -0500

When did the Military go from Team work to an I deserve status? All I know is this we start making this and I thing and it becomes infectious and not in a good way. The only ones that are giving the up most resect are the MOH recipients because they went above what any man or women is Expected to go at the most trying time. As far as we know you take a test and you qualify to pick a job in the military and you promotion are base on your ability to master basic knowledge both in your MOS and soldiering. The United States Military would not be as Great if we go to the I status. We all did and always do our part to stay that way1!1

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 5:06 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:06:43 -0500

I think the Army should take the same stance as the Marines - EVERYONE is a Rifleman first, they just have other jobs on the side. A comment like this above means they are starting to believing their on press stories. Its take a total force with all specialties to make a solid combined arms team.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 5:11 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:11:12 -0500

Are you serious cupcake we all put in something weather its physical or mental we all lose brothers we all lose sisters we all serve our country we get hurt we fall down we pick yourself up no matter if your army airforce Navy Marine you're no different than anyone else you're not special cupcake whether you're a Tech sniper infantryman we all put in a part the only respect you deserve is your rank. And the only other reason you should deserve more respect is if you gave the greatest sacrifice. So as a infantryman said to me once suck it up buttercup

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Dec 2 at 2015 5:16 PM

SSG Jim Foreman — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:16:57 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I was a crew chief/door gunner on a huey gunship in vietnam. I was shot at on an almost daily bases during my time in vietnam. How are you a "true" warrior and I'm not ?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 5:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:18:33 -0500

It amazes me how many folks are attracted to this negative question and responding but you all have not read one other posts and commented.

It shows me that all of you were looking for a fight but could care less about service member's mental health. shame on you.

Response by SSG Pamela Smejkal made Dec 2 at 2015 5:47 PM

SSG Pamela Smejkal — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:47:16 -0500

Piss off!

Response by GySgt Fred Martinez made Dec 2 at 2015 5:48 PM

GySgt Fred Martinez — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:48:53 -0500

Ok Rambo lets get real it takes support from other specific support units to make it work.

Response by SSG James Doherty made Dec 2 at 2015 5:49 PM

SSG James Doherty — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:49:09 -0500

Seriously?
This guy wasn't Infantry or an Operator: http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/smith/profile/
Nor was he: http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/monti/profile.html
Hell this guy started as an Intel operator and then became Cav., but still not infantry or an operator: http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/carter/profile.html
When you do something like one of these fine men then you can ask for more respect from the "non warrior class" peasants you look down on from high horse.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Dec 2 at 2015 5:54 PM

MAJ Ron Peery — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:54:00 -0500

SFC Esquivel, a true warrior is defined by actions in contact, not by what brass is on the collar.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 5:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:55:51 -0500

Blah, Blah, Blah, same old infantry is special routine. I've been a supply SGT my whole career and up until recently I've only been with combat arms. You guys are not special, some combat arms not all but a large majority are a bunch of whiney pre-Madonna's. You are no better than anybody else everybody has there own part to play. However you keep believing that your special and remember one day you have to leave the Army. I don't want to be 40 and keep walk or get a decent job because "grunt" doesn't look good on a resume.

Response by PO3 Michael Cardinale made Dec 2 at 2015 5:59 PM

PO3 Michael Cardinale — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 17:59:24 -0500

SFC Robert Esquivel, I don't think that it's necessary to create a "warrior class." We are all volunteers, we all have given our lives over to the government to serve as a force to do our Country's bidding. Each branch of service has a mission and a responsibility to keep our citizens safe. I have respect for all of my fellow veterans and active duty personnel. When we all were in basic training we learned to work as a team and to rely upon each other to get the job done. We are only as strong as the weakest link.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Dec 2 at 2015 6:10 PM

CPO Randy Francis — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:10:42 -0500

Obviously you've never been an intelligence operator moving around in foreign countries, working alone, and unarmed. Maybe you should stay behind whatever desk you work out of.

Response by SSG Steven Wood made Dec 2 at 2015 6:26 PM

SSG Steven Wood — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:26:51 -0500

So fuck Armor I guess. Get outta here with this divisive bologne and go back to your connex layout

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 6:41 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:41:20 -0500

I'm in an Airborne Infantry Battalion. Lots of tabs, scrolls and every badge imaginable. Guess who gets the accolades for how well an operation went down. The Forward Support Company. Always there, always on time. The only thanks you need is the "privilege" of wearing that blue cord on your uniform. That sets you apart. Wear it with pride.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 6:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:47:59 -0500

I'll sign off on this....seriously, I think this could have been said a little more "nicer", but I get it. I've had Specialists that served two combat tours in less than four years in the Army then going though intense training befor-between-after deployments.....and I've know senior NCO (not saying it's their fault) that have worked their entire careers as assistants or secretaries to General officers or Divison/Corps level headquarters and have never taken their TA50 out of the plastic. Its not fair, it's never gonna be fair, it's not gonna change, but I get where he is coming from.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 7:31 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 19:31:39 -0500

I'm going to disagree with you. This job isn't about getting a pat on the back. It's not about "atta boys". If you are good at your job, and a decent, dependable person you will earn respect. What you are proposing is all about entitlement. Respect is not an entitlement.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Dec 2 at 2015 7:31 PM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 19:31:44 -0500

Yea, you just have it so tough, SFC. Cry me a river.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 7:48 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 19:48:30 -0500

Hahaha. I had a good laugh. I guess the quiet professional part is lost on you.

Response by MAJ Karl Stumpff made Dec 2 at 2015 7:58 PM

MAJ Karl Stumpff — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 19:58:13 -0500

We are the Warrior Class, much in the tradition of the Samurai. Once we understand the fact, that we represent the 1% willing to swear the oath, this kind of internecine argument is worthless. We are one together and must work as such.

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Dec 2 at 2015 8:41 PM

TSgt Marco McDowell — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 20:41:37 -0500

So what about the FOs, medics, radio operators, combat engineers and the like who get attached to infantry units and carry out the same and extra missions in support. Or the arty guys tasked out as a rifle platoon to augment grunts. Heck, I got tasked out by the AF to support the Army because my records showed I had certain skills they could use. I wasn't a grunt, but I fell in with them because I was a POG with training in the Corps and Air Force. A simple ol' comm dawg who went through Sapper school, learned demo calc, then to FO school, and wound up slogging with the 03s. Then an aircraft mechanic who wound up on a Ma Deuce in a convoy for grunts. Yeah, I take offense to this.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 2 at 2015 9:17 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 21:17:52 -0500

I guess if you wanted special attention you are certainly about to get it.

Response by Maj Jeff Dodd made Dec 2 at 2015 9:20 PM

Maj Jeff Dodd — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 21:20:21 -0500

Dude, getting the help you need isn't going to be easy, but nothing about your chosen profession is or was easy I'm guessing. Give it a try before asking GO's to change the way the treat non-infantry types for PTSD.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Dec 2 at 2015 9:25 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 21:25:26 -0500

I cannot resist!

Is there a cadence, "Want to be a POG like me"?

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Dec 2 at 2015 9:33 PM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 21:33:59 -0500

Two things, 1. The term "warrior" is insulting to me. That is a tribal fighter. I was a soldier, which is higher than a "warrior". More specifically I was a tanker , but I won't digress further talking about us God's chosen children.

2. You have point of sorts about the combat arms. But it is not about respect or anything. By right of being combat arms I was already a special class. But the one thing they really need to do for the combat arms is pay us more (all the time) and compensate us some when we leave. The Combat arms demands learning skills that have no or little value on the outside. So when you leave the service you are at a disadvantage for many jobs compared to the rear echelon. Knowing how to operate weapons of death or fire and maneuver are not marketable skills.

Past that nope, the Combat arms was its own special thing, i don't care if it is respected more or less. Being on the inside meant and means something , I care not if other people understand or not.

Response by SGT Carissa Lara, RCS made Dec 2 at 2015 9:38 PM

SGT Carissa Lara, RCS — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 21:38:30 -0500

I guess I should give back the 70% disability rating that I got from the VA since I was a POG that didn't train and destroy my body. -.-
This post is insulting to all the soldiers, sailors, and airmen who break ourselves to support the mission.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 9:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 21:58:09 -0500

I am so glad that I ETS'd several years ago, so I can say whatever the hell I feel without any repercussion. I am a former 11B, with a total of 28 months of combat with the 10th Mountain. I have "been there, done that", so to speak. And you, my dear SFC, are a fucking idiot. When we had a mission to go on, we sure as hell didn't fly our own Chinooks or Blackhawks... When we were in the middle of a TIC, infantry guys weren't flying the Apaches or the Warthogs... When we had month long missions where we didn't come back into the wire, it wasn't 11B's bringing us out resupply MRE's or ammo. We didn't supply our Terps with ICOMs to listen to insurgent chatter, the Intel guys did. We didn't cook our own food, the Cooks at the Chow Hall did. Like most everyone here has already said, without support troops, we're just hungry, naked, black on ammo, and shit out of luck... When our MK19 blew up, it sure as hell wasn't an 11B getting us a new one.. When we broke the half-shafts on our Humvees driving them like bat out of hell, it sure as hell wasn't us fixing them. When we ordered some ridiculous crap off the internet that we didn't need, but thought we did because we were 18 and "deployment rich", it wasn't 11Bs delivering the packages. I would hazard a guess that you either A: Have never actually deployed, and are looking for someone to pat you on the back even though you are a shaming piece of shit, or B: Deployed as an 11B in a fucking S Shop, didn't actually do the job you trained for, and now feel like you need someone to validate your existence as a "Warrior", so that you feel better about not doing your job... Just my two cents.

SGT SoRelle
2-87 INF, B Co
2005-2010

Response by SGT Dana Williams made Dec 2 at 2015 9:59 PM

SGT Dana Williams — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 21:59:18 -0500

That's been tried before . It was called the Waffen SS. The military should, and must, be about team work. You cannot have a component that feels it's superior, and separate, fro the rest.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 10:07 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 22:07:00 -0500

I see what you are trying to get at. I think we already have some favoritism already. But at no time should be treated better than others due to being Infantry. If there is a Logistics CPT that is telling me something I will still call him Sir and Salute. Just because I am infantry doesn't give me a pass. I It is a bit dangerous to play this game. It will also happen into the Infantry. You will see those that are Airborne given more respect and even more so those with Ranger Tabs. It would be chaos.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Dec 2 at 2015 10:20 PM

SFC Don Ward — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 22:20:13 -0500

You know how they say "if you can't say something good.................? But someone is really a few fries short of a happy meal.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 10:32 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 22:32:47 -0500

You take away supply and chow from an infantryman. He will make a weapon kill an animal and fight in close combat with his hands if that's all he has. I get what you're getting at sergeant, most look at it as arrogance and it is but we can't do what we do the way we do it without believing we are the best. It's what keeps us motivated and keeps us alive. Infantry leads the way

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 10:44 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 22:44:12 -0500

Was this site trolled by Duffleblog?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 11:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 23:04:07 -0500

For the record I don't agree with creating a warrior class, but one does already exist.

Regardless of the “everybody gets a trophy” theme I keep seeing on this thread it’s simply not the way it is. Whether in civilian life or in the military people compare and size each other up. Do you think the doctor buying a pack of gum from a 7/11 clerk sees the clerk as his equal? No, of course not, even though they both contribute to society in the jobs they perform. The same goes for the military.

Yes, support is important, but the civilian that manufactures the ammunition we use or the people that make our MRE’s all contribute and are part of the support system. Are they on par with the military members that provide support? I don’t think so, because the service members that are in support missions provide support, but also place their lives at risk.

Now let’s just look at infantry. The mission of the infantry is to close with and destroy the enemy. In other words, when they go outside the wire they’re looking for trouble. Support goes about their jobs, trouble may find them, they respond appropriately and then Charlie Mike. It all comes down to the risks inherent to the job.

Aside from females that are prohibited from certain MOS’s every male had the same opportunity to join a combat arms MOS. Many didn’t and that was their choice, but now want the same recognition as someone that did choose the riskier job.

Even society recognizes this. Why don’t you see movies about 42A or 25U MOS’s?

Just to make it clear, I do respect support MOS’s. I’m in one now. The plain fact is some MOS’s command more respect than others. An honest person with admit this.

Response by SSG Paul Ellis made Dec 2 at 2015 11:25 PM

SSG Paul Ellis — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 23:25:50 -0500

Geez, Leonidas...doesn't Combat Arms get enough of a boost on centralized promotion boards?
BTW, good luck doing your Rambo stuff without Signal and Material support.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2015 11:35 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 23:35:42 -0500

No. All aspects of military exist for a reason. Take out one and all operations will be affected.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Dec 2 at 2015 11:42 PM

COL Jeff Williams — Wed, 02 Dec 2015 23:42:49 -0500

So how does one show them respect that is different from what is done now? As we pass by each other do we ask them if they are Infantry or an "operator" and then render a special salute? Do we step aside when they come by, does a Finance Captain salute a 11B PFC? I think your question is intended to be a put down. That is my opinion

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 1:48 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 01:48:27 -0500

I agree 100%. I could never do that job nor would I ever volunteer for it. There should be tiered VA benefits that take MOS into account. Props to Combat Arms!!!

Response by SN Greg Wright made Dec 3 at 2015 3:01 AM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:01:52 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member You're a currently serving member? Wow. I feel for the people that work for you, and for all the people who support the people who work for you. You are, quite possibly, the first e-7 I've ever met that loses all respect from me. I know that won't matter to you. Your ego is large enough to absorb the justified disdain of any number of people.

I'll just say this, Robert (I won't even grace you with your rank, which I think you somehow paid for or something, like some medieval ass who murders his peasants), Let's see how friggen far you get in your 'warriorship' without food, eh? Or medical attention. Or, ya know, your weapons. Unless, of course, in y our magical universe, you simply hold out your hands and they magically appear, rather than through the efforts of 100 people before they ever get to you.

Please tell MS3 Lakeina Francis (Mess Specialist. Cook.) that her service is worth less than yours, you unmitigated ass. Of course, you'll have to do it at her GRAVE, because she died on the USS Cole, along with many others you would consider 'non-combatants'.

Or hey, let's talk about another group who gave more than your beloved infantry in WW2: Merchant Marines. Their rate of losses was higher than ANY of the armed services. Are you going to tell me they deserve no respect?

MSgt Curtis Ellis Can I get an SMDH?!

Response by LCpl Ash Carson made Dec 3 at 2015 3:02 AM

LCpl Ash Carson — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:02:08 -0500

I honestly feel everyone should be respected.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Dec 3 at 2015 3:27 AM

SSG John Jensen — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:27:22 -0500

there's this thing in the army where people re-up to do something else, there's a whole lot of the support MOSs that are filled with people that were originally combat arms, and some people's bodies age worse than others, discovering that I had osteopoikilosis while I was a medic in the 82d, told me that the 82d probably wasn't a good place for me, and when the arthritis kicked in in my late 30's, told me that it was time to become an 88M, and that's how I went to Iraq in a HET

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 3:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 03:29:04 -0500

Sooooo what about the combat support soldiers who go outside the wire daily with the infantrymen doing the same thing while also doing their jobs as well? Should they get even HIGHER recognition? Should the infantrymen place those soldiers in higher regard than themselves? I'm asking because that post was obviously a troll attempt...

Response by SPC James Harsh made Dec 3 at 2015 4:01 AM

SPC James Harsh — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 04:01:48 -0500

Remember that mission? Outside the wire on the outskirts of the A.O. No immediate support. If not you're a POG.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Dec 3 at 2015 4:10 AM

SSgt David Tedrow — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 04:10:17 -0500

I think you are wrong. Each and every person that wears the uniform of this country knows who has done what just by what units they were with, the ribbons and medals they have earned and by the wounds they carry with them. To in some way say that there should be a class made is going to do nothing but cause animosity, more so than may already occur, between personnel. We all have a job to do and each job is important and one is no better than the other in the ultimate mission. If you feel you need separate recognition than maybe you are doing the job for the wrong reasons. Ego is a bad thing in battle, it can and will get you and others killed.

Response by CSM James Winslow made Dec 3 at 2015 4:45 AM

CSM James Winslow — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 04:45:30 -0500

An elitist force in the military? A recipe for disaster. we all have differing skillsets, and we all bring something to the table- no one of us is better than all of us, that is the essence of the military. We all swore to "protect and defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic", and to indicate, by word or deed, that one part of the military is better, faster, stronger, smarter or more qualified to achieve glory is to destroy the very foundation that makes us "a force to be reckoned with" - Teamwork.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 5:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 05:57:08 -0500

I cannot imagine this guy in charge of a non-combat arms unit, they would break the record of most reenlistments to get out of that unit.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Dec 3 at 2015 7:18 AM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 07:18:29 -0500

"The general military...?
~slowly walks away while smdh over and over...~

Response by MSG Tim Gray made Dec 3 at 2015 8:26 AM

MSG Tim Gray — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 08:26:04 -0500

Id like to chime in (as an 11Z50) FIRST, I will NEVER consider myself or any other Infantryman on the same level as any 18 series professional, ever! Lastly (this post doesn't require beleaguring) I have worked with female and male counterparts who didn't wear a blue cord, but I felt they provide more to the fight than the majority of us who do.

Response by MSgt Paul Anderson made Dec 3 at 2015 8:52 AM

MSgt Paul Anderson — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 08:52:02 -0500

Where are you going to draw the line. Only infantry and operators? Do you even know what you are talking about? What about door gunners, EOD, armor, medics, convoy escorts, pilots, etc. want me to go on ? This has to be the stupidest subject I have seen in my opinion, you should separate from the service at your first opportunity and join some outfit more bfitting of you status and skill.
Go to France and joing the FFL if you want warrior status and respect. Personally, I don't think you can cut it.

Response by MSgt Paul Anderson made Dec 3 at 2015 8:53 AM

MSgt Paul Anderson — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 08:53:28 -0500

See my comment below. You have a serious EGO and self worth problem and most likely need serious counseling.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Dec 3 at 2015 8:57 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 08:57:35 -0500

The last time I checked we haven't had a draft since the Vietnam era, so with all do respect, we all chose our MOS. I respect everyone in their chosen jobs while in service, but to say that one MOS should be treated with a higher regard is BS! I put my life and soldiers life on the line every time we stepped ground on that Desert Sand. I have been shot at, convoy hit with IED's and even lost a soldier, so I guess we should be put at higher regard for doing what we signed up to do......

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 9:19 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:19:22 -0500

To add to this, if you change MOS you should be allowed to wear you Blue [infantry] background and blue cords

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 10:11 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 10:11:32 -0500

Our Army 11-series and Marine 03-series are taught to think that way because it is what is necessary to build the espirit de corps and brotherhood that makes people willing to walk and run towards bullets. We ask them to defy logic and self-preservation instincts. They must believe they are the baddest MF-er in the valley.

Take it for what it's worth - but no one can insult or offend you without you choosing to be insulted or offended. Look at why it bothers you so much. I'm a retired Intel guy and I'm not offended.

Response by SPC Bryan Guzman-Piedra made Dec 3 at 2015 11:36 AM

SPC Bryan Guzman-Piedra — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 11:36:05 -0500

Ok buddy...Sure.
Let me know next time you want to fly to the objective whilst being protected by my crew. Since you're so damned elite, I'm sure you won't mind walking your elite self to the objective 100 miles away?

An SFC? You cannot be serious. One of my old PSGs was an infantryman before becoming a Blackhawk crew chief. He'd be the first to tell you how not special and full of it you are.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 12:25 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 12:25:38 -0500

This brings back recent memories from Afghanistan when the Infantry would refuse to leave the FOB's until the our Combat Engineers cleared the way. Just sayin.

Response by SGM Ray Whitaker made Dec 3 at 2015 12:49 PM

SGM Ray Whitaker — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 12:49:02 -0500

The true intent of this post, was to troll and I must say, well done.

Response by SFC Jeffrey Thivierge, MA, BSN, RN made Dec 3 at 2015 2:02 PM

SFC Jeffrey Thivierge, MA, BSN, RN — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 14:02:57 -0500

http://youtu.be/yptXkLglKkA

Billy Madison - I award you no points

Dumb. Dumb.

Response by SFC Scott Crisp made Dec 3 at 2015 2:21 PM

SFC Scott Crisp — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 14:21:33 -0500

Someone should be getting a NO block checked on their next NCOER.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 3 at 2015 2:27 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 14:27:02 -0500

This is a slippery slope that you are suggesting. If put in place, it reminds me of the train of thought from North Korea. And we all know how well that's working. Personally I think the idea is asinine. There is already enough of a divide between grunts and pogues or pogs or whatever you call them these days. If you were serious about this, you would be suggesting that all soldiers go through infantry training school, and then they could go on to MOS specific training. But I am a Marine that's been out 25 years, so what do I know?

Response by SGT John Childs made Dec 3 at 2015 2:37 PM

SGT John Childs — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 14:37:45 -0500

Satirically interesting...inter-disciplinary narrasicm vs. ignorance of force metrics.

Response by SPC James Harsh made Dec 3 at 2015 2:53 PM

SPC James Harsh — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 14:53:41 -0500

The CIB already settled this. I had KP once and wore my CIB because it was indoors. At one point the NCOS brought it up as if to 'let' me continue to wear it. I was also proud of my combat patch and I think everyone should be, I hear they're discriminating against them now. I have respect for EOD by the way. I've seen things before their QRF arrived. I was in a Matv that had a blast. I know theres so many that had it way worse than me even. 1 squad we were Guard. I saw thousands at KAF playing grabass. We never talked about other MOS negative, jokes maybe. When I see negative towards 11b it doesnt seem like a joke.

Response by 2LT Earl Dean made Dec 3 at 2015 2:56 PM

2LT Earl Dean — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 14:56:47 -0500

I think I understand where you are coming from. I to was an SFC and was Light Infantry. I was a 11B and damn proud of my unit. I at one time did agree with what you say, being the first to face the bad guys face to face and take a bullet or get cut by one of them. All the running jumping diving, being in the wake of concussion after concussion from Grenades and incoming rounds, bombs being dropped danger close and closer, Makes one feel they are the ones that gets the brunt of the action and it does have a toll on the body, a devastating effect on the human body and mind. HOWEVER! what we as the (Warrior) don't see is that without those men and women behind us we could not do or be whom we are and or were. Their jobs are just as important as ours. Without them we wouldn't have the food, water, ammo, clothing, Intel or anything else we need to do the job we had or have to do! And they also pay a toll for what they do. maybe not with a bullet hole in their body but with slipped disks and hernias and god an ex-stream amount of stress and strain that we don't see. My father was an Administrative tech before becoming a 1SGT that man put in so many hours trying to make sure we had fuel for the trucks and the heaters for tents we never got to use or see but he had to make sure it was there. I watched him as the pressure mounted on him year after year. Our supply SGT was the same! He became old before his time trying to support and fast moving light Infantry company and make sure we had what we needed to make us the Warriors we were! WAR EAGLES! Company "C" 2nd of the 151, 38th infantry division and later company "D" vietnam

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 3:04 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:04:12 -0500

Seriously? How were you even able to post this? A close friend of mine, a CI guy, spent more time off the camp then we did conducting activities. So in his defense and those like him, you should go f#%^ yourself.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 3:16 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:16:38 -0500

Sorry, I do not buy your argument. Everyone that is actively serving, or a veteran, deserves respect. What are we suppose to do; bow when ever we are in the presence of a "True Warrior?" Any MOS can be called upon to pick up arms at any time. In my book, you have to earn respect if you want to be treated with respect.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Dec 3 at 2015 3:37 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:37:24 -0500

Everybody that is in a uniform chose to be in that uniform. A lot didn't choose the career field they are in and the gain ability to be on the front lines...I am glad we have operators like you mention but give yourself a pat on the back but don't sprain your shoulder. A true warrior doesn't demand or go looking for respect they silently earn it. By posting something so arrogant is a pop in the face of everyone that ensured you got where you needed to be with the supplies, beans and bullets that you required. I would have expected a lot more from a SNCO...The problem is that you are probably breeding this dribble onto your subordinates...hope they don't bite.

Response by SFC Mark Lathan made Dec 3 at 2015 4:08 PM

SFC Mark Lathan — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 16:08:43 -0500

As someone that has been both a Grunt and a POG, I just want to say GROW UP! I have seen support units come under attack, and have to fight their way out on their own, because the Infantry QRFs didn't respond. Then the QRFs make the excuse that their wasn't enough tactical information. I have witnessed more than once, tactical PSYOP units pressing the fight towards the enemy. When at the same time, the Infantry units they were attached to wanted to turned tail. They wanted to run, and wait for the A-10s. My point being, not every Infantry unit performs exemplary in combat, and not every support unit enjoys the comfort, and safety of the FOB. I have seen many support units that were constantly outside the wire, and getting into fights. A lot of these POGs you hold in such utter contempt, have given their all on the battlefield. Some of the Infantry branch you worship like a false god, has never left the wire. I am observing plenty of senior infantry leaders without right-shoulder patches.

It is unfortunate, that there is a caste developing between the civilian world, and vets. Now you want to bring that societal disaster within the ranks. Unfortunately, you're likely not going to listen. Therefore, enjoy the leadership bubble you're creating for yourself, and the RFC that will result. When you hold others in unjustified contempt, they will not give you their best support, and you will fail; miserably.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Dec 3 at 2015 4:48 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 16:48:09 -0500

I had/have a lot of friends that were 11B's and had/have a lot of respect for what they do.

They called me "REMF", and "pogue". I called them "rock with lips", and "cannon fodder". It was good natured ribbing. I picked their brains and learned a lot from them in the event that particular skill set was needed.

I fixed CH-47D's, and I was grateful that I didn't have to step off the aircraft into a hot LZ, and they were grateful that I pulled them onboard and gave them a ride home to a hot meal.

Respect was mutual... we held each other in high regard.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 5:38 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 17:38:05 -0500

Never! You will understand once you are bleeding, hungry, thirsty, out of ammo, with broken equipment - and you are all alone, not counting other "warriors" in the same condition and situation. Real warriors are already respected and recognized.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Dec 3 at 2015 6:40 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 18:40:01 -0500

SFC Robert Esquivel,
With all due respect, I have no clue what you are asking. We are/were ALL warriors. Yes, 11B troops go on to more intensive physical activity than say me, as a 24K10, then a 24K30. I was an electronics technician in ADA units. Those assignments however were all over the world and the U.S. and NOT physically demanding. But please, stop to think for a moment about the mental prowess we had to have to have kept 4 missile batteries "UP" and in a "Green Status", hundreds of modules that required constant tuning on a test bed that was 8' wide and 5' tall in a hardened "shell" that could act as fire control and loaded on a deuce & a 1/2 for mobility. It took 4 radars and 3 launchers with 3 missiles each plus the control shells to complete an entire battery. Mental Stress is as demanding on the human body as is physical stress. 11B BN's were "behind us" until we cleared the skies. We too, are/were WARRIORS. You have no valid question. Every MOS is a warrior class.
Thank You,
Rick

Response by CW3 Kim B. made Dec 3 at 2015 6:52 PM

CW3 Kim B. — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 18:52:32 -0500

I agree with SFC Bradshaw. His knowledge that others in the Army are required so that the Infantry can do their jobs is spot on. However, it would have been a little more respectful in he had referred to them as Soldiers.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 6:57 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 18:57:52 -0500

Shut. The. Hell. Up. Your hurting my brain.

Response by SSG Tavis Patraw made Dec 3 at 2015 7:05 PM

SSG Tavis Patraw — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 19:05:09 -0500

Nope as a former 11B that reclassed to 31B, with1 deployment to Iraq as a grunt and 2 as an MP, saw hell of a lot more action AND RAN twice as many missions as an MP

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 3 at 2015 7:25 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 19:25:53 -0500

No they should not. They get combat pay for their aches and pains. Depending on the AOR, I know many 'non-combat" types that have been in the fighting just like the infantry. The military is a true team effort, without the support guys, the "combat" guys couldn't even show up to fight. I subscribe to the notion that anyone who puts on the uniform (regardless of service) is a warrior. Especially in todays all volunteer military.

Response by SGT Eric Kesseler made Dec 3 at 2015 8:43 PM

SGT Eric Kesseler — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:43:20 -0500

Wow, 47 POG's voted this post down? Bunch a butt hurt cry babies! HAHAHAHAHA! You are right, but look at Ranger School graduating women and now the SecDef wants to open ALL combat arms to women? What warrior class? Now it is the PC constantly offended class I'm afraid! You are right, us Infantrymen, Operators, and Line Medics and FIST teams should be held in high regard!

Response by SSG James Wilson made Dec 3 at 2015 8:49 PM

SSG James Wilson — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:49:49 -0500

I was a 42A (admin) after doing 11 yrs in infantry in the 82d, I am now retired with a bad back, a bad heart were they induced a heart attack with all the shots and still deployed and ended up kicking in doors so not everyone in those other MOS's is a pogue. Without them you would not get paid, eat, or have equipment. I've seen both sides and it all kills your body

Response by Cpl Chad Perry made Dec 3 at 2015 8:50 PM

Cpl Chad Perry — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:50:45 -0500

This is absolutely ridiculous. I was motor transport in an infantry regiment. Not only did I have to know my job, we were also expected to train right along side the bullet catchers. Whenever we went out to support an infantry unit we always had to pull double duty. Sure, the grunts had to hump out there while we drove the trucks. But while they were eating chow and sleeping, we were running all night long making sure they had everything they needed. Then during the day we had to dismount, gear up, and play grunt. I got to learn everything a grunt does from the basic rifleman to heavy weapons, and I even got to work with recon and snipers. I left the Marines with blown out knees, a herniated disc, and a few broken bones. Yeah, us POGs can put in an honest days work too.

Response by SFC Jason Babb made Dec 3 at 2015 8:51 PM

SFC Jason Babb — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 20:51:11 -0500

I think they already are treated with higher regard. I'm support- I fix electronics, satcom, computers, etc. But, I'm no combat medic or special operator or infantryman even. Those folks see the worst of it, generally. I don't think they're better than me but I totally appreciate their significant sacrifice and risk to life and limb.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 9:32 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 21:32:50 -0500

We already have warrior classes in each service. The battelfield soldiers wear their badges, tridents, tabs, CIB's/CAB's and berets that distiunish them from the average soldier.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 9:39 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 21:39:53 -0500

I have to go always with what Colonel Smallfield and the others have said; we are all on the same team; many support personnel have given life or limb; also, without them the 11 Bangs or the Green Berets couldn't operate. I understand your pride in being part of the Army that takes the point, but its wrong to communicate that pride in a way that implies an elitist class. I will give you 2 things however; you did acknowledge the Medics and Corpsmen; I have a very high regard for those Soldiers and Sailors who provide front-line medical support. Also, as one who has never served in a combat arm, nor been deployed; I do feel a compulsion to salute them (even if they are lower rank than me) and thank them for their service. However, I also take pride in being (present tense--yes still a soldier for life!) part of the team that includes those soldiers and sees that they are taken care of.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 10:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 22:45:55 -0500

This has to be the dumbest post I have ever seen. Good luck to all you grunts getting anything done without the help of your support personnel. This post is just plain ignorant and just shows that the Army promotion system is broken if they promoted you to SFC. A true operator is quiet professional and does not require nor want all this attention you so seek.

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Dec 3 at 2015 11:20 PM

SSgt Christopher Brose — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 23:20:10 -0500

They're called Marines.

*gets popcorn ready*

Response by CPL David Riopelle Spencer made Dec 3 at 2015 11:41 PM

CPL David Riopelle Spencer — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 23:41:25 -0500

We all have a job to do. We should receive that respect equally. How you treat your soldier or the others in the military should decide what level of extra respect you receive. Just saying. Infantry lead The Way. Hooah?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 11:45 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 23:45:22 -0500

Wow, I was an aircraft armament tech for six years on the Kiowa and you know what, if we dont fly, grunts die.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 11:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 23:53:43 -0500

It most definitely is a put down lol. Your saying the infantry is better than all other Mos. But the infantry can't do everything on they're own. You may be a SFC and I'm only a SSG but if I ever meet you in person I've lost all respect for you as a man.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2015 12:33 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 00:33:28 -0500

I think this is the wrong way to look at this, when thinking of unit cohesion this is the splitting maul in the log. Don't get me wrong, I have a fierce respect those who serve on the front line. Several men in my family have sacrificed their bodies in the line of duty and I came close to a deployment in Afghanistan of my own back when I was an RP. But so many of the jobs that aren't on the front line are massively critical to the frontliners survival. These men and women deserve just as much respect in my book. Now what these men and women in harms way need is better recognition post battle for the mental and physical care they require to properly recover. That is the respect that aught to be showed to these most valiant of our brothers and sisters.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Dec 4 at 2015 1:07 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 01:07:28 -0500

Would it be a resident or distance learning class? Maybe after 12 weeks you get your sword and toga.

Response by PO1 Jose Flores made Dec 4 at 2015 1:27 AM

PO1 Jose Flores — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 01:27:35 -0500

This is stupid, a warrior is a warrior and a true patriot. No one is more special than next soldier and should treated the same .

Response by PO1 Danny Jobe made Dec 4 at 2015 2:40 AM

PO1 Danny Jobe — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 02:40:37 -0500

Before you start saying who deserves what... let's look at a very simple problem. In the numbers of active duty Army.... only 48% is deployable, of that 48% only approximately 30% is actually deployed. People like me from the Navy do voluntary terms with an Army unit to fill in your gaps. Don't be to quick to judge who deserves what. I witnessed a whole postal platoon receive Bronze Stars for being in Afghanistan and a single one ever saw any combat. Anymore. .. ribbons and medals are just chest candy.... especially in the Army.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2015 3:21 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 03:21:10 -0500

I have to disagree with you on the moral foundation of your argument, because it actually goes against our values as Americans. Our country exist as a legally classless system, on the books nobody is better or worse than anybody else, and that is what makes our country the shining beacon of liberty that it is. As a Soldier, not a warrior, you have a responsibility of defending our Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic, by advocating for a "Warrior Class" you are undermining the values which you swore to defend. I'm paraphrasing, but by saying that you are better than other MOS's because of your job, you're also saying that you're better than the Americans who don't serve, which is by and large untrue. Service is a choice, you are paid for that choice, but don't ever think because of that choice you are better than the people you serve. Just my two cents, but people who want to be treated with a higher regard shouldn't be in the service industry.

Response by Cpl Jason Cox made Dec 4 at 2015 5:20 AM

Cpl Jason Cox — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 05:20:47 -0500

Infantry and "operators" already hold themselves to a higher regard than the rest of the military. I'm not going to stroke their ego.

Response by Cpl Joshua Malinowski made Dec 4 at 2015 10:34 AM

Cpl Joshua Malinowski — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 10:34:14 -0500

*Cough* Marines

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2015 11:23 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 11:23:09 -0500

No. I don't think so. All Soldiers, are already warriors right after Boot-Camp. Heck before they even took a step inside MEPPS. We're all soldiers. We fight together. We Train together. We support each other. One family, One Nation, One Army. Hooah!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2015 3:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 15:24:13 -0500

One team, one fight, everyone has a job to do, some are more glorious than others. The respects is already there. My grunt friends crap on my CAB because it's not a CIB, the Blue Cord, the Stetson, Spurs, tanker boots, berets, qualification badges, etc.....be proud of your MOS, and don't go looking for kudos, earn them and they'll come. I have a lot more respect for a combat patch than most other things. In my little mind if you haven't deployed since 2001 through 2012 you, well........get my drift.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Dec 4 at 2015 4:42 PM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 16:42:35 -0500

If the military did as you suggest, then you would not have anyone volunteering for the support roles. Everyone would want to be in a warrior class. Then you would have people assigned to the support roles because they still need to be filled.
In the Marines, everyone is a Basic Rifleman. If they need warm bodies on the front line any Marine can step up. An entire branch of the Armed Forces where the warrior is ingrained in each member.
I was a submarine hunter. My job was to hunt and kill up to five hundred people in one strike. I wasn't on the front line, but trained as a warrior nonetheless.
The United States Military has its warrior elite. SEAL, MARSOC, RANGER, SPECIAL FORCES, PARA RESCUE, COMBAT AIR CONTROLLERS, etc...

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made Dec 4 at 2015 4:59 PM

CPO Joseph Grant — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 16:59:03 -0500

Ok, I know you are part of the new cuddly loving military. FORGIVE THIS CHIEF PETTY OFFICER WHILE HE EXPLAINS LIFE TO YOUR DUMB FUCKING ASS. In asymmetrical warfare everyone is combat arms. Most of my time in the Submarine Force we didn't worry about little faggot ragheads causing problems. Either way, everyone on a Dubmarine is a "warrior". Yeomen to torpedomen live and die together and every man has a true battlestation. I don't know how old you are boy, but I god damn guarantee I've gone through more shit than you. Yearn your place puppy, the big dogs sit on the porch

Response by PO3 Brad Phlipot made Dec 4 at 2015 5:07 PM

PO3 Brad Phlipot — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 17:07:22 -0500

What would be the purpose? We are / were all gears in the machine supporting one and all and with out the Medic, supply clerk, pilot, SEAL, Marine nothing would run as it should. We are all on the same team and as a team recognition goes to the whole. Setting aside or assigning extra recognition knocks moral down in the rest of the MOS's each are just as important.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Dec 4 at 2015 6:37 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:37:34 -0500

Robert that took BALLS, and yes you are right there are those that carry a heavier burden, but this is not limited, to the physical and the killing arts, there are those that play Russian Roulette and time after time go into enemy territory to make deals.

Response by SSG Keven Lahde made Dec 4 at 2015 6:50 PM

SSG Keven Lahde — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:50:21 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member SFC what difference would it make? We are all warriors no matter what our MOS is.

Response by MSG John Melville made Dec 4 at 2015 6:58 PM

MSG John Melville — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:58:25 -0500

I believe so. Pretty soon the infantry and specicial forces are going to be flooded with females.

Response by CAPT Tom Bersson made Dec 4 at 2015 8:57 PM

CAPT Tom Bersson — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 20:57:13 -0500

I think certain segments are already treated with more respect. But if they start looking down on the others they will lose that respect.

Response by SSG Rockslyde1776 . made Dec 5 at 2015 1:38 AM

SSG Rockslyde1776 . — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500

“Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a Warrior, and he will bring the others back.” -Heraclitus, 480 BC

For me, being a Warrior is a state of mind expanding beyond military service. Police, Fire, and many civilians such as teachers who fight to protect their students from attackers, and parents who've never fired even a pellet gun who battle against intruders intent on harm are Warriors. How far am I willing to go, for how long, and for whom. 2,500 years from now no one will really care what my military job was, but instead, if I did everything I could do for all.

That's my two cents.
Former Army Medic
Veteran of Desert Storm, and OIF.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Dec 5 at 2015 2:13 AM

Capt Chris McVeigh — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 02:13:01 -0500

No. This is the kind of thought process that you usually get from junior enlisted, "I'm infantry, I'm a badass". Let's reverse this thought process for a second. Let's remember all those service members who were not infantry/SOC and yet stepped up to engage in combat or give their lives. You say you train constantly for combat, well they didn't and yet they still engaged in the same fight as the infantrymen around them. Remember that the next time you start feeling superior.

I'm not going to delve into the whole cycle of POG/Grunt supporting each other towards a common mission as others have already covered it sufficiently.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 4:33 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:33:04 -0500

As a POG myself I really didn't know what to think about this myself. What I do know is that I have been on more missions both off and on island than any infantryman that I know with 6 or less year in the close to 4 years I have been in as well straining and breaking my body. Have you lifted 100's of pounds of wood every day or have to tear down and build structures back up, that shit ain't easy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 10:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 10:34:42 -0500

Look at what's happening to my community. In EOD we used to think we were special, the Army put a stop to that right quick.

Response by SSgt William Linnell-Rivas made Dec 5 at 2015 12:49 PM

SSgt William Linnell-Rivas — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 12:49:07 -0500

yes

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 1:52 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 13:52:47 -0500

Would you say the Security Forces (MPs of the Air Force) get this same higher regard?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 3:04 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 15:04:47 -0500

Bad asses don't need to be told they are bad asses.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 4:36 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 16:36:15 -0500

Sure why not? What do you want? A cookie?

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Dec 5 at 2015 4:56 PM

1SG Nick Baker — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 16:56:22 -0500

Look up warrior as define by an American Indian

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Dec 5 at 2015 5:04 PM

1SG Nick Baker — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 17:04:06 -0500

I agree with the one team, but history and the body count of MOSs tell a different story. I do not think you can make a warrior class inside the military. But, you can not compare a person fighting the enemy face to face with someone in the same military not fighting face to face. We need everyone to make a Military, but someone has to do the dirty deed of killing.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 5:20 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 17:20:16 -0500

I'm not sure how it is in other branches, and it is a bit fuzzy for me how the fleet run things, but we Seabees can do everything under the sun. We mainly build, but my 'bees have seen combat in both Afghan and Iraq. So it is a lot harder to say well so and so is a support personnel and not combatant. At least in my small community we are both. We Build. We Fight! Hoorah!

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Dec 5 at 2015 9:56 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 21:56:01 -0500

And this drivel coming from a supposed SNCO. Makes me glad I'm retired and don't have to deal with idiocy of this sort. Good Lord, don't we have enough TRUE problems without creating more?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 11:17 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 23:17:48 -0500

If you're doing it solely for the extra prestige, you're off mark. Duty, honor, country-- that is all.

Response by SPC Jason Moon made Dec 6 at 2015 12:48 AM

SPC Jason Moon — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 00:48:37 -0500

If it were about who put more on the line. It would be 88 Mikes. Deadliest MOS in Iraq

Response by SPC Robby Robinson made Dec 6 at 2015 1:45 AM

SPC Robby Robinson — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 01:45:36 -0500

With the understanding that I am ignorant as to the training methods for the Marine Corps, it is my understanding that all Marines (male/female) regardless of MOS, are trained infantryman. I don't know if that is valid. I was not in the Marine Corps, I was in the Army and was in the Infantry (11Bravo)
With that being said, I find it hard to swallow the inference of a female Marine cook (for example) has the same combat skillset that I had going through the Army's Infantry School

Response by SPC Robby Robinson made Dec 6 at 2015 2:02 AM

SPC Robby Robinson — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 02:02:54 -0500

The bottom line is this, the days of safe operations in the rear echelons are long gone. There are no front lines anymore. Accordingly, every MOS regardless of that being combat arms or not, are in serious peril at any given moment. Although direct action is limited, any Infantryman who has the audacity to put down the skillsets of support personnel needs to get knocked on his or (and as of yesterday) HER's ass

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 10:16 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 10:16:41 -0500

Agree

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 10:18 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 10:18:07 -0500

But they should all cross training to make all be a full elite force among all forces

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 12:33 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 12:33:41 -0500

Don't think it would make much of a difference. Those that are in this business simply to be able to gloat "oh I'm infantry" or "Oh I'm SF" usually don't last long. The rest of us (speaking as an infantry medic) while having varied reasons you can usually tie it all together with a desire to just "fuck shit up" - apologize there is no other way to phrase that.

while many outside the role will never admit it openly. we already know that they look on wishing they could do what we do, but they can't, because they're not infantry. They want to be us. their women want to be with us. It's a hard life to live.

Response by SGT John Marecki made Dec 6 at 2015 12:58 PM

SGT John Marecki — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 12:58:37 -0500

Damn, I was an MP and more on the combat side. Just because I did not live on a C.O.B just not make me less important. How about route clearence, we also do dismounted patrols with I.P's. Yo say that one Mos deserves mote respect than another is crazy. No one mos works without washing the others hands.I believe that's how a true NCO thinks.This is just horse crap. Maybe rangers and S.F. should get all the credit then!

Response by LTC Brian Gates made Dec 6 at 2015 3:03 PM

LTC Brian Gates — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 15:03:40 -0500

If you didn't feel respected as a warrior, there might be a reason that has little to do with your MOS.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 6:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 18:19:48 -0500

Fuck pogs. Real men go 11b or to elite units as operators

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 6:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 18:23:07 -0500

All the pathetic butthurt and "feelings" coming from the pogs and butt kissers is funny. I agree that Infantry and spec ops are the baddest hardest dudes in the military. And no pogs don't push themselves like grunts go not even close, stop lying to yourself

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 7:21 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 19:21:00 -0500

My initial reaction was to laugh at what sounded like a joke. Sadly that seems to not be the case here. I do have one question though for you....what do you mean by warrior class? Do you want a reserved parking space next to the O6 or head of line privileges at the DFAC? I mean that sounded like the drivel I'd hear from a 13 try old playing Call of Duty in Mom's basement not from a senior NCO and a "quiet professional" if indeed you are an operator. The more I think about what you wrote the more infuriated I get.

As a lowly Apache pilot I may not be down running around the mountainside with the infantry but you can be damned sure than when a call comes out over the radio we are there to stick our necks out no matter if it's an A team that made the call or some PVT who got assigned to ride along on the Buffalo for a trip down the MSR. Let me strap you into this small cockpit for at least 9 hrs a day with one day off every 14 and you can join the rest of with any number of back and neck injuries. I can't count the number of us non elites who have had at least one surgery. Oh and by the way bring a few Gatorade bottles to piss in because shutting down and climbing out isn't an option.

One last thing for you to consider since Nov 20th 4 of my friends have died in two seperated crashes conducting training flights to fly in support of ground forces.

Response by Lt Col John Tringali made Dec 6 at 2015 7:58 PM

Lt Col John Tringali — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 19:58:21 -0500

I can't give this a higher thumbs up!

Response by COL Charles Williams made Dec 6 at 2015 11:17 PM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 23:17:04 -0500

First, I treat our tip of the spear warriors with the highest regard. They are why all the rest of us support Soldiers exist. But, warriors are more than just the Infantry, Armor, and Operators brother... SFC Private RallyPoint Member. This is team sport, and you need us more than you can fathom.... You will never get that, until we are not there. But, that too is OK, because we know we matter and that you can't succeed without us. I have had many units (squads and platoons) respond to support (help) conventional infantry in contact, and operators too. Try and do what you do without the rest of us. I do consider(ed) myself a warrior, and my branch warriors. MPs, Engineers, etc . deploy at at least 3 x the rate of the troops we support... So who are really the warriors in our Army? We all are in my view and a cast system is needed nor useful. Just my pogue point of view.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 1:37 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 01:37:31 -0500

Just what we need infantry to think even more highly of themselves

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 5:47 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 05:47:45 -0500

Obvious Troll is Obvious. This post was better written than his entire profile. Look if you want to invoke a POG, Infantry fight then you did good, but please take your fake profile, and go somewhere else with it. Your unprofessionalism as someone who is suppose to be a Senior NCO is so lacking it's obvious you are not who you say you are. Especially for someone who is suppose to teach other NCO's and soldiers how to act. Not all infantrymen see combat and not all POGs are fobbets. Now before people start to attack me for "being a POG" I honestly don't care. This POG and Grunt shit has been going on since before either of us were alive. What I care about is someone who is my senior setting not only a bad example of professionalism for myself, but also for my peers and juniors. Maybe you need to go back basic to learn from a drill sergeant what professionalism is. Either way have a nice day.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 8:14 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:14:46 -0500

Like everyone who decided to join, each one of us had the option to pick our job. A person that likes aviation prior to joining would be smart enough to take that job for the experience that he or she will need when they leave service and enter into the civilian work force for that line of work.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 10:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 10:49:38 -0500

No one is more professional than I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer, a leader of soldiers. As a Noncommissioned Officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the Military Service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.

Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind -- accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommissioned Officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Noncommissioned Officers, leaders!

SFC, remember the words above? I'm sure you have said them before in a leadership school...but you, in no way, shape or form exemplify these words when you make a comment like this... You want extra "kudos"?...You're in the wrong profession, friend. You sound more like a millennial recruit than a seasoned senior Non-commissioned Officer. We all play our role. I feel sorry for the Soldiers for which you have been entrusted to lead.

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Dec 7 at 2015 11:14 AM

CW3 Jim Norris — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 11:14:26 -0500

As an one time 11C I think that every solider - just like every Marine should have an 11 secondary that they qualify in FIRST, then become the intel analyst or whatever you're going to do and you should have to maintain some sort of certification in that 11 series MOS.

Respect - well now there's a different kettle of fish completely. An E-7 automatically brings a lot of credence into the room just with those stripes. It has been my experience that the level of respect from his/her peers from that point on is directly related to what comes out of their mouths and the manner in which they conduct themselves. Back in the day, as they say, I could tell within 5 minutes if an NCO and I where going to work well together - the way they carried themselves, how they treated others (not me) in the group - and if they followed my Mom's advice - you've got one mouth and two ears, use them in that exact proportion.....

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 12:46 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:46:44 -0500

Well... wtf do you want?

National Infantry Day? With full parades, gold sticker awarding and a pot luck thrown by the POGs?

How about Fellatio Fridays on post? where everyone lines up to have the "honor" of slobbing an 11B? (Including NCOs and officers, of course).

Wait, I got it. A mandatory brief, where we are forced to learn how the infantry is better, and how we should work extra hard for them. Mandatory briefs are the answer for everything.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 2:16 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:16:19 -0500

This is absolutely absurd. I am a 91B Light Wheeled Mechanic. Everyday I hear the infantry guys I support " without you we would be a bunch of drooling idiots" were all the same. I put my pants on just like everyone else.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 2:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:42:26 -0500

Wow...So like because I didn't spend 6 months practicing CQB before I went to Afghanistan it negates all the combat that came to visit me? That's got to be the most myopic, asinine, draconian and just bass-ackward reasoning I have EVER heard.

I suppose in your world only infantry and SF go into harms way and pull triggers. I must have missed when we time-warped back to 1945. I don't even know where to start with this one...

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Dec 7 at 2015 3:03 PM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:03:10 -0500

bullshit

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 9:41 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 21:41:24 -0500

I'm very much disappointed with the "entitlement mentality" displayed in the original post. The days of the Spartans fighting their enemies for glorious accolades is long past. The phrase "No one wants to go to war and fight, but someone needs to know how" comes to mind. If you choose to serve, your reasons why are your own business. If you think that because you chose to join as an Infantryman or an "operator" because those classifications will set you apart from those of us who are not, then you are a fool on a fool's errand. Obviously, during the time I entered the service, jobs for women were not as abundant as they are now. Nevertheless, we are all taught basics like marksmanship and land nav for a reason. As military professionals, it is our privilege to serve and that does not include special privileges. Good luck with that attitude. I hope you don't get anyone killed with it.

Response by SSG Ray Wil made Dec 7 at 2015 11:18 PM

SSG Ray Wil — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 23:18:02 -0500

I agree, that being said. I have a question for you. What is the primary MOS of every soldier that enlist in the Army? ?? If you are a true infantry, and warrior, there is only 1 answer. INFANTRY. Yep that's right, we all learn to shoot, move, and communicate. I am Infantry, since 01/1989. We may be the iron band around the wheel, but we are not infantry strong without the spokes that support us.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 11:24 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 23:24:48 -0500

Not sure what you expect our need. Accolades? A red carpet? First in line privilege at the commissary?

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Dec 7 at 2015 11:32 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 23:32:38 -0500

In a way, it already exists. You look around and you know who they are. You work with them for a while and you know who they are. I am not one of them, but I know who they are.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 12:49 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 00:49:50 -0500

Oh wow. Get over yourself. I have mad respect for the guys that turn and burn on the frontline. Except for douche bags like you. The ones who whine about not getting enough respect are ALWAYS the ones who deserve it the least.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 1:11 AM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 01:11:03 -0500

Robert, we give reverence to amazing things and SOF is really tough to earn. But we are all service men and women. To give some mandated extra respects takes away from respect being earned. I didn't correct a ranger on standard army passion movement hand signals out of respect even though he was wrong. By not getting petty with the details I made a friend. Would you rather carry a badge of honor from within our a patch that makes you feel a little more special? All of our roles from door kick to dust off are intermingled. Door kicking carries the brunt of the danger, but my hawk is coming into the hot lz to exfil you. In the end it's about the brotherhood and coming home to a country not in flames. I'd not set the Joes up to run away from jumping on that grenade simply because one of the other guys nearby had that special patch.

Response by SGT Andrew Hosford made Dec 8 at 2015 2:00 AM

SGT Andrew Hosford — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 02:00:44 -0500

Just like every organization ever created in the history of mankind, there is a formal structure and an informal one. Special treatment is given to those who are informally recognized as having earned it. Special operators have always enjoyed these little perks to varying degrees because others in the military recognize the additional training, qualification, and sacrifice they make as well as their unit's track history. And everyone knows that the higher up the chain you go, the more you can get away with, but you also have farther to fall. If you abuse those informal perks the formal system will correct you. Institutionalizing special RECOGNITION has been part of military tradition since its birth. It's why we have awards, special qualification badges, and all sorts of recognition for special accomplishments. But institutionalizing special TREATMENT is a slippery slope. Whose to say the individual grunt on the ground is more operationally valuable than the MI who found the target in the first place? Or the crew chief and pilots who stopped superior enemy numbers from overrunning a position? Or the mechanics who ensured the vehicles wouldn't break down in the middle of a patrol? Let the formal system do what it's good at, maintaining discipline and operational effectiveness, while letting the informal system do what it's good at, filling in the gaps that the formal system can't systematically address.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 8:04 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 08:04:54 -0500

Read Animal Farm. I'm combat arms, cavalry guy, and I think you're idea is retarded.

Response by SPC Thomas Johnson made Dec 8 at 2015 9:36 AM

SPC Thomas Johnson — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 09:36:25 -0500

We don't do what we do for a "higher regard" than others. We do what we do because it needs to get done.

And we can't do that without the support of everyone else. This isn't some movie where a single dude takes down an army with his bare hands just because he's "spec ops"; the mission is completed when everyone does their job.

If you're not getting the "higher regard" you feel you deserve, it's probably because you don't.

MOS - 11B1V

Response by LCDR Jeffery Dixon made Dec 8 at 2015 10:10 AM

LCDR Jeffery Dixon — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:10:53 -0500

Nothing worthy of further comment.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 10:11 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:11:33 -0500

It doesn't matter what I say, I'll just get called a butthurt POG. Throwin a downvote, exit stage left.

Response by SGM Lonnie Durand made Dec 8 at 2015 1:44 PM

SGM Lonnie Durand — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 13:44:22 -0500

The military IS a warrior class.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 8 at 2015 2:16 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 14:16:32 -0500

Every service member should have a warrior mentality. Combat arms, aviation or support, male or female. Entering data, repairing electronics or taking dental x-rays is in reality your secondary job. First and foremost you are here to cefend your country and it's citizens against violent individuals who would do then harm. Take them out, shoot them stab them.. use your bare hands if you have to,
Being in a certain MOS doesnt give you automatic respect and prestige. It's the professionalism of the individuals that will gain respect.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 2:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 14:23:50 -0500

Right. keep dinking the kool aid.

Response by SPC John Wolff made Dec 8 at 2015 7:20 PM

SPC John Wolff — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 19:20:37 -0500

Way to stay humble asswipe. You don't deserve respect you don't even deserve to wear a uniform. Good luck finding a real job when you leave the military with that shitty attitude.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 8 at 2015 11:40 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 23:40:09 -0500

Benefits for the Warrior Class:
Cut to the front of the line at the chow hall (DFAC)
First pick of the MREs
Skips out on Monday Command Maintenance (make the non WC do the work)
Free six pack of beer from the class 6 once a month
Free Planet Fitness gym membership
Authorized to wear the dress blue jacket, thongs, and shower shoes
After retirement, they get to be their own shrimp boat captain
Free Smart car
And what ever ridiculous think someone can think of.

Response by PO3 Scott Gailey made Dec 9 at 2015 1:30 AM

PO3 Scott Gailey — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 01:30:38 -0500

I think that maybe you are in the military for the wrong reasons, or, at the very least, have forgotten the mission. I'm former Navy, my best friend in the Navy, enlisted in the Army and is now a CWO3 operator. I respect the hell out of him, but if he said this to me, I'd laugh in his face. Then run. :)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2015 5:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 05:51:24 -0500

Wow....where to begin.

The Army already has somewhat of a feudal system in place (ever looked at a parking lot near a Brigade HQ for five minutes?)

Second, why the ego-stroking? The Army is a value-based organization, and those values are taught to all who join, and they apply to all who join.

Third, this is garbage, and I won't waste any more time on it. Good luck in your quest for "respect".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2015 5:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 05:54:13 -0500

Oh, and if you want to talk about training and destroying bodies, go watch a Sapper Leaders Course in action, and then come back and tell me that no one trains as hard as the Infantry.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2015 8:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 08:35:32 -0500

Simply put, we already are. Take a look in the mirror, that blue cord, discs, and CIB are exactly the "higher regard" you're talking about. Everyone else knows they're only around to enable us to do our jobs.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2015 12:35 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 12:35:31 -0500

I thought this was a question about gaming, not real life......... PoG for life.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2015 11:02 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 23:02:00 -0500

This is the same as in the Air Force a lot of pilots thought they were the best and everyone else was of a lower class. It is a put down for all those specialities that support the Infantry and the Operators.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 1:36 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:36:34 -0500

As a Chaplain Assistant, I realize I am viewed as a POG and to some don't even recognize it as a real profession. Whatever your view, my opinion is that a person joined to serve their country in which best fits their natural gifts, talents or desires. This should be respected by all. I believe the Army does set aside SF and Combat MOS separately as seen by their respect of heritage in wearing blue cord and discs, CAV stetsons and spurs, special awards and training. Respect is earned and revered to those units by opportunities to serve with those hard chargers. I don't do work for myself, it's a service to others by nuturing the living, caring for the wounded, and honoring the fallen. I believe the Army already gives respect to the gun slingers. That is why recruiting, Hollywood and most Soldiers see infantry and SF as poster boys of the Armed Forces. If you are in a unit that does not show the heritage and traditions to pay those respects, then you as a leader can make that change by using the Army values, heritage, and traditions to educate soldiers and make sure respect and value is given. I see no need in a policy that would create a "warrior class" when there is already one.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 10:25 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:25:19 -0500

isn't there a warrior class already? Like you said, it's Infantry, but also SF, Ranger, Airborne, DF, Marine Recon, Navy Seals, and I'm sure the Air Force has one also? Sorry AF, I don't know much about yall. Perhaps one yall could help me out here please? Anyways, I think the Armed forces each have a 'warrior' class.

Response by PO1 Rexford Dundon made Dec 10 at 2015 11:59 AM

PO1 Rexford Dundon — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:59:49 -0500

Before you start saying show respect for "true warriors" you go look up Taffy 3, specifically USS Johnston DD 557 and USS Samuel B. Roberts DE 413...

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Dec 10 at 2015 12:46 PM

CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:46:46 -0500

I was commissioned as an infantry officer, saw my first combat as a cavalry officer and my second as an SF officer.

How would we go about creating a warrior class? Bow? (Females would be allowed to curtsy). Having others avert their eyes from the greatness that is us? - that would be a good start! No, just kidding! When I was in the service (during the VN war) there was a deference shown to combat troops, especially combat veterans, by others. It was nothing that you could actually put your hand on but it was there. Once I was wandering down the halls of Pentagon East in Saigon looking for Staff Section J-13 where I knew a friend of mine from Ft Benning days worked. I was getting a lot of looks and people moving out of my way as I was wearing dark sunglasses, a green beret and combat jungle uniform with my M16 rifle slung over one shoulder, all in contrast to the sharply pressed semi-dress khaki uniforms worn by all who worked there. I was clearly the only combat soldier they had ever seen.
I finally found Section J-13 and walked through the door. The SP4 who was the receptionist for the section nearly fell all over himself trying to get out from behind his desk and come to attention both at the same time. “How may I help you, sir?” he finally managed to blurt out.
Neither unaware of his good grammar nor of the stir I was causing among these pencil pushers with my field dress I boomed out, “I am Captain von Taráfdar and I am looking for Captain Neville Chatwick. Where is he?” I was escorted toward his office by the receptionist. After my visit I walked back down the hall to the receptionist just as a full colonel from the Air Force walked in. The receptionist barely looked up from his reading and asked the Col. what he could do for him.
BTW 70% of all battle casualties are born by the infantry and operators - that knowledge alone does and should set us apart.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Dec 10 at 2015 12:55 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:55:12 -0500

Yeah, see how far that 'Warrior' body gets you without intel or air support. See how far those "true warriors' get without any equipment procurement, vehicle operations, or air support. Without those lowly non-combat types your ass is nowhere. Get over yourself.

Response by SSG James Beneda made Dec 10 at 2015 1:26 PM

SSG James Beneda — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 13:26:00 -0500

I'm an academic (and former 11B) researching American 'warrior' culture. The responses on here are fascinating and a little surprising. Thank you for asking the question, but the negative reaction shows how seriously most of us believe in the value of teamwork. We may give our POG friends a hard time, but in the end the guys out front (which in Iraq could be anybody on a bad day) know we're all in it together. Your responses represent the very best values of American military service. Hoo-fuckin'-ah!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 2:05 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:05:19 -0500

I will just leave this here...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 3:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:30:46 -0500

I would love to see a Infantryman do his job with no pay, no food, no supplies, no medical, no intelligence, no fire support. Being infantry is not special or hard, I was an 11M for 5 years before I wised up and went 35 series. Some of the worst Soldiers I have encountered were brothers of the cord. Using the word POG is childish, and when a fellow Soldiers uses it; I automatically not only know his/hers maturity level, but their educational level as well; also that person has qualified their opinion into "Junk" status.

Response by SFC Matthew St.Hilaire made Dec 10 at 2015 4:19 PM

SFC Matthew St.Hilaire — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:19:27 -0500

The military has a class system, it is the ASVAB test.

Response by MAJ Michael Davis made Dec 10 at 2015 5:57 PM

MAJ Michael Davis — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:57:57 -0500

The Army has two already, Ranger and Special Forces!

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Dec 10 at 2015 7:53 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 19:53:46 -0500

DEAR GOD!! What happy pills did you take? I WAS a medic in the Army, assigned to a light infantry unit , and then after my contract was up switched to the Air Force! What makes you think that 11B's and 91W's are better than any one else??? I MEAN REALLY! With THAT ANAOLOGY.....I.AMA POG FOR SWITCHING SERVICES! Bro....with out maintainers the A-10's DONT FLY! With out finance YOU dont get PAID! Each job from a Private to a 4 Star General has its pressures.... and this whole warrior-hero s**t bring beltched out by the media.....is total horse hockey!! You need t ground your self to reality...NIAC-IMMEDIATELY ! Cause one day the "bad @ss infantry" stuff ends when you get out.....then what?? Live in the past?? Sad prospect indeed!

Response by 1SG Frank Rocha made Dec 10 at 2015 9:14 PM

1SG Frank Rocha — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:14:54 -0500

No.

Response by SFC Brian Vance made Dec 10 at 2015 9:36 PM

SFC Brian Vance — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:36:09 -0500

This guy is why our Army is in shambles. A definite candidate for QMP.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 10:08 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 22:08:44 -0500

That is ridicilous, I have been an "operator" for over 16 years. I am usually deployed 8-10 months a year and I am thankful that there are guys to do all the support work. I love my job and I don't need anyone to pay me on the back for it. I would not be able to do my job as effectively if support guys weren't there to fix my vehicles, provide me Ammo, fix my pay, or any other job that needs to be done to support my mission. your worth and validation should come from how you feel about your job performance.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 10:31 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 22:31:33 -0500

The Infantryman tang wants to be treated special trains up and goes to places where people are special. SFAS, Ranger BN, CAG, etc. True everyone's job is important, everyone busts their tail ends to make the Army work. While the Infantry are the sluggers of the battlefield, getting shot at and blown up having enlisted for the purpose of killing and simply that we can not do any of those things without the support guys. I've been Infantry for going on 11 years now. I do make fun of POGs when given the opportunity but never in my life would I get on the bad side of my medics, my mechanics or my cooks. Always bring them guys and gals cookies or bring them gatorades. If you want to be treated special then go be special.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 11:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 23:30:23 -0500

I think the military is a waste of funds anyway. Half of the "POG" Mos's could easily be done away with coming from a billion dollar company as a project manager, it makes me laugh every time.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 11:34 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 23:34:00 -0500

hmmm, creating a hierarchy withing the military? I think someone beat you to that idea

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 11:49 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 23:49:15 -0500

If you want more respect than what you already get as a Soldier, hit the prestige button in you character class menu. It's usually at the bottom of the menu next to save and quit. While you're there, try to add a few attribute points to your humility and intelligence and charisma. It might help you open up those hidden dialogue that will make people more receptive of your garbage. I'll bet you never looked down on that medic that was right there with you in the suck getting shot at just like you. That is if you have done any of what you post on your profile.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 12:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 00:48:03 -0500

Hey bro, I'm a SFC infantryman. I understand everything you mean in your post. 90% of the rest of the infantrymen understands your post as well. I'll just say this brother...don't bother with expressing your opinion about what we do because it's no use. The whole "everyone is a rifleman" mantra that the Army established years ago has everyone who is not infantry believing that they do everything we as infantrymen were born, and bred in infantry OSUT to do. You can talk to a cook, commo specialist, FO, tanker, cav scout, MP supply clerk, truck driver, mechanic, band member, etc and they will claim that in some way shape or form they've done what we as infantrymen do. Everyone claims it's easy to do what we do but yet they don't make the decision to change there MOS and truly dive into the depth of the infantry craft. Notice I said craft...Because what we do is a craft and takes special dedicated MEN to do it. Like the comedian Paul Mooney said "everybody wants to be a N-word but nobody wants to be a N-word". It's the same with this discussion...everybody wants to be a grunt but nobody wants to be a grunt and go thru the true training and suck we go thru to earn the blue cord, blue discs, EIB, and CIB. Nobody wants to go thru the suck of ranger school, or sniper school, or LRSLC (now RSLC) but they want to claim they do as much as we do. Everyone had their respective jobs in our great Army. Let's leave the traditional MOS friendly jabs between us infantrymen, and the tankers, and the cav scouts, and let those who claim to do what do or claim that they can do what we do have their own whatever it is they have. I mean hey I can be blunt too...THERE'S ONLY ONE MOS IN THE ARMY, AND THAT'S THE INFANTRY. EVERYONE ELSE IS SUPPORT.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 3:42 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 03:42:26 -0500

As a 73B O3 Medical Officer I went on missions outside the wire and stayed at remote, austere COPs to help keep you in the fight. One team one fight.

Response by SFC William Duncan made Dec 11 at 2015 9:55 AM

SFC William Duncan — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 09:55:56 -0500

Wow I always thought one teAm one fight

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Dec 11 at 2015 11:34 AM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 11:34:29 -0500

I find it interesting that so many warriors who do not work with POGs know so much about our training schedules, capabilities and contributions.

I also think it's a bit arrogant when infantrymen place their skill level in the same category as operators.
I mean, I'd love to believe I'm a princess and I should be "treated with higher regard" but in reality, I am not :(

Response by SPC Jonathan Holstein made Dec 11 at 2015 2:37 PM

SPC Jonathan Holstein — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 14:37:42 -0500

I believe that role is already filled by Cav scouts. You may bow down to us if you wish. Scratch that. You will bow!

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Dec 11 at 2015 8:54 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 20:54:23 -0500

I thought that the military was supposed to be the warrior class?

Response by SSG Eddye Royal made Dec 11 at 2015 9:15 PM

SSG Eddye Royal — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 21:15:09 -0500

SFC, they have those types of classes and they ARE NOT DISCUSSED!! THE PERSON or PERSONS just get YELLED at if they do not stay up to their standards, and are tested regularly. and its not fun!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 10:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 22:13:51 -0500

When growing up in the military, a rifle team leader once told me "there's a few people you don't mess with; 1-Doc 2 - supply 3- cooks 4 - finance." Kind of keeps you thinking that each Soldier is as important as the next. As a fellow Infantryman and a Non-Commissioned Officer, it saddens me to think that there are NCOs that don't understand the big picture. If you don't have support, you don't make it to the fight.
13b- prep your objective with indirect fires before you land on the objective
MP-KEEPS your family and Soldiers safe while in garrison
Supply-3 days into a mission, and you're almost black on water, you call your XO for a resupply, who does he/she task that to?
Finance-pay? No other words needed

I could go on and on with this, but you get the point. Every has their own piece of the puzzle, and we are more powerful together than separate.

Response by MSG Patrick Coley made Dec 11 at 2015 11:17 PM

MSG Patrick Coley — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:17:14 -0500

As a retired Infantry senior noncommissioned officer with four deployment to Iraq. I would disagree, there's more to being a soldier. I've served with various MOS's, and can say that every person on the ground had a purpose. I had served with Artillery, Armor, scouts and even supply as my counterpart, and can tell you that everyones heart was there to win the fight. If your looking at a specific entitlement then look at the CIB. The military has worked so hard to bring its man, and women in service to work together. Man and women have lost their lives keeping this nation safe, and give so give credit to the ones who lost thier life. Patric coley U.S.A. Retired Infantry First Sergeant.

Response by SP5 Joshua Santiago made Dec 12 at 2015 12:04 AM

SP5 Joshua Santiago — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 00:04:46 -0500

Agreed!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 12:39 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 00:39:58 -0500

I understand your comment and had a similar thoughts. The Army is a Team of Teams. All jobs in the Army are important. The War Fighters are the tip of the spear, but the other jobs ensure the tip is sharp. There are folks who work in acquisition that may never step on to the battle field, but their contributions to the Army Team is just as great as the Soldier at the tactical level using equipment procured by them. The Army 20lbs brain who is testing the next gen body armor may never see combat, but he or she will save countless lives.

Its tough on todays battle fields. The fight is no longer linear. The introduction of the CAB for non-combat arms Soldiers performing combat arms actions shows the Warrior Class is larger than Combat Arms MOS's. If they create one. Plus I know some Soldiers who earned a CIB that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. I am an EOD Soldier, where would I fit in the hierarchy? I have seen my share of combat from Sadar City to Momamadia (SP?)
I am cautious with labels, answer me this? Where do "non-combat troops", like the ones our President says are in Afghanistan come from? Is their another branch that we don't know about? Do theses Soldiers go to Non-Combat AIT? No, they don't. They are Soldiers just like us. Labels make people who don't know any better feel good. At the end of the day, you know who you are and what you have done. Creating a "class" wont change that. I see people using it as a way to stroke their egos which isn't conducive of team players.

Response by SSG Wesley McCarty made Dec 12 at 2015 2:31 AM

SSG Wesley McCarty — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 02:31:23 -0500

You are an idiot.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 3:54 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 03:54:18 -0500

I'm a POG in the 173rd Airborne. I guess my body lands on pillows and beds of flowers whereas the grunts land on rusty nails and broken glass. So I guess I see the point in how our bodies don't take the same abuse?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 4:03 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:03:17 -0500

Are you crazy!?!?

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 4:22 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:22:36 -0500

Lord of the flys anyone?

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 4:58 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:58:13 -0500

Lord of the flys people. We all have a job to do and we all do that job as professionals. With respect SFC I'd recommend you reconsider your position on non combat arms warriors. After all a grunt with out Intel is blind, a grunt without be supplied with his rifle is useless, a grunt without finance is broke, a grunt without chaplains is with out a soul and a grunt without JAG is with out consul.

Response by MAJ Philip Crabtree made Dec 12 at 2015 6:06 AM

MAJ Philip Crabtree — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 06:06:56 -0500

You sound like a real douche, SFC Esquivel. Are you sure you're not a millennial? Judging by your need for praise, is it safe to assume you participated in every campaign if OIF like I did? Were you in Iraq during every calendar year from 2003-2011 like I was? Or do just like to grow your beard? You're a freakin' "spotlight ranger".

Response by SPC Pedro Diaz made Dec 12 at 2015 6:34 AM

SPC Pedro Diaz — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 06:34:54 -0500

I believe ever soldier should do infantry for 2 years before specializing in what ever they want to do in the military, that would make us a great army

Response by SSG Richard Beaman made Dec 12 at 2015 6:44 AM

SSG Richard Beaman — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 06:44:22 -0500

The CIB is exactly that distinction. Just advertise its significance outside the military.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 8:41 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 08:41:00 -0500

This is, by far, the most ridiculous thing I have read in these forums. Made even more so by the fact the poster who wants more acknowledgment for what he's done as an exceptional soldier yet his pic in uniform shows a clear violation of Army standards. Respect is given to those who deserve it, not to those who demand it. BE, KNOW, DO.

Response by SGT Mark Shinn made Dec 12 at 2015 11:30 AM

SGT Mark Shinn — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 11:30:09 -0500

Ok... So, after much thought, I feel that there is already a respect for the Infantry and Special Operations. I have been nothing but a grunt. I have, obviously, worked with those in support roles and with operators. There is a different kind of respect given to each. I love when I get hot chow. I love when I get MREs. I don't get them by walking to the factories that make them. And I don't cook the food myself. When it comes to combat, yes, everyone is trained to fight to a different level. I've talked to POGs that have pencil whipped their rifle quals for years. And I've seen MPs (sometimes to my amusement) practice battle drill 6. I will say that grunts are the experts at fighting (Operators included when I say grunts). In ground combat, no one else compares. Grunts see the majority of combat actions. More so than 19 series and 13 series for sure. We not only risk IEDs, but we come face to face with the enemy and often. It's our job. I remember hearing about the extra money you get a month to be airborne. I always thought grunts should get a bump like that as well. Just for saying I will face the enemy. Not saying I will, if it comes to that, but my main focus is my xxxxxxx job. I still think that would be great. But I've never thought to push the issue.

But, in being a grunt, you should learn to be a silent professional. Breaking a rule of mine in this post, I apologize. But the way we should all behave is in silence. Not braving or asking for more recognition. POGs work their assets off in their jobs. Some are turds, but so are some grunts. We've been given so much throughout our history though. Are you not proud of your CIB? (granted, I don't wear one on my ACUs). The blue chord? The blue discs? We have our recognition. And we shouldn't point it out. I've never seen an 82nd guy pull out his LES on me to brag about his pay. And apart from joking around, beret color and blue shit on our uniforms aren't thrown in people's faces. We are professional. This post is not.

That being said, POGs, don't feed into this. There is no quantifiable way to make what he wants possible. Nor would it happen. Power point classes saying love grunts sound like fun to anyone? Sound like they'd work? No. And it's stupid to act like they are needed. If we don't respect everyone in every job, what are we?

I'm sorry, SFC, but as a section leader, I am tactfully asking that you think hard on your statement. It does not represent the Infantry or special operations.

To everyone else, you should recognize a foolish idea when you see it and know that it is not representative of a whole organization.

Lastly, I want $150 a month for being a grunt. Why? Because I want $150 a month. Lol.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 2:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 14:30:49 -0500

SFC E...as a former infantry NCO (who now you would say is not a "true warrior"), I cannot believe such an immature opinion is coming from a senior leader. My opinion (which you obviously disagree with) is that you are way off base, and should seriously consider your opinions before sharing them again.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 3:52 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:52:43 -0500

Man, this post has caused quite the stir. Everyone knows how proud infantrymen are about their MOS, and y'all do some pretty badass work. However, without all the other comments below to say it's not a good idea, think about the average infantryman's deployment. The majority of the "war" has been Coalition forces driving (or walking) around praying we don't get blown up and wanting to shoot the few bad guys we do come across- all to be stifled by strict ROE's. Based on my experiences in Afghanistan, which I'll list below, I don't believe 'infantry' should be considered the 'elite warrior class":
-sitting at the front gate for eight hours a day
-sitting in a guard tower overnight talking to yourself to stay awake
-sitting on ground lock in your vehicle for 24 straight hours to secure a section of road
-hazing soldiers to the point of suicide (happened at a COP near the base I was on)
-seeing how many Rip It's can be drank before a mission
-losing weapons in the porta-shitter
-burning shit in a barrel
-drawing pictures of genitalia on the bathroom wall...IMO, these don't warrant a label update. Just an end of tour award.

OBVIOUSLY, this isn't how all Infantry deployments go. The surges in Iraq and Afghanistan proved that it's a very dangerous MOS to choose. However, just because it's dangerous doesn't mean it should be the "elite warrior class". We have Valorous awards to distinguish folks who deserve it, so let's use them to the fullest!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 4:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:01:06 -0500

Everyone saying without support infantry couldn't do their jobs are proving this guy right. Of the comments I've read in response to the original post their was only two that said one team one fight so to speak. To the guy who mentioned finance maybe finance should pay more attention to Soldiers pay so he wouldn't have to come crying to you!! By the way most fianance is run by civilians most support jobs have civilians all infantry jobs have Soldiers!!! Just saying. I believe one team one fight. Maybe 15 years ago when there was not this type of war being fought Infantry should have been treated differently I don't know though I wasn't in back then. It takes a special person to join the Military and i did my time and I'm proud of it. I thank you all for your service!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 4:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:01:51 -0500

No, the idea of regarding grunts higher than the rest of the Army implies that they do more or are more important. Without Intel you wouldn't know where the enemy was to fight. Without supply you would have what you need to fight. With out commo you wouldn't be able to communicate during the fight. Without food services you wouldn't be able to sustain your troops to fight. Every MOS is equally important.
And as for the idea that infantrymen rack their bodies more than anyone else take a look at any Armor Crewman or Scout or any combat arms MOS SSG or above and they are just as broken down and tired as an infantryman. This elitist idealism that 11Bs have is obsurd and I would think that a SFC would have the ability to think beyond the blind pride of an average private and realize the whole Army importance....guess not

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 4:37 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:37:57 -0500

How about instead of that ridiculous idea we actually hold leaders accountable and enforce the standards we have now.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 4:42 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:42:01 -0500

I am actually shocked that anybody would even think about such an idiotic idea. Respect is earned, not given because of your branch insignia. It's a team sport, my friend. If you don't figure that out pretty quickly (you should have already) you are not going to see much success in your future.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 5:30 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 17:30:02 -0500

Doesn't make much sense to me sargeant bo disrespect but im a medic on the line with an infantry unit and I go thru all the same stuff that the 11b i work with go thru. The same time there are a lot of apects that they are a higher regard in the things they do I think they deserve respect but they earn it in my eyes. Our supply nco earns my respect he keeps everything goin for us. Our support in my battalion gets down and dirty with the rest of us. So to say they don't deserve the same respect that an 11b should receive is not a valid picture to paint. They have to earn it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 5:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 17:53:51 -0500

What a can of worms you have opened.. I worked as an MP for a Special Operations Command for over 13 yrs.. Operators, Rangers and most 11B's that have been in the "shit" receive their due respect and high regards.. That said.. I NEVER felt like I was "less" of a Soldier or "less" deserving of respect because I was "just'" an MP.. These "warriors" always treated us like family.. maybe because they slept under the protection my guys provided. and YES.. we have beed toe-to-toe with the enemy with them as well. The only difference is training. Anyone can apply for Special Operations... and 11B was offered to everyone that joined. ONE TEAM, ONE FIGHT.. no one can do it alone...

Response by PV2 Harry Swensen made Dec 12 at 2015 6:36 PM

PV2 Harry Swensen — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:36:36 -0500

You anti warrior elites are all WRONG in your insipid weak ass PC view the ARMY TEAM(All Equal) is "everything" at the expense of the SHARP edge/KILLERS. There is MISSION and the SUPPORT of MISSION. WE are to KILL the enemy not cook,fuel or civil affairs him to death. The Green machine is NOT about social experiments ,social advancement or "all men are created equal" BS, it is about WINNING at all cost,not "koom-bi-yah" were all equal at all cost.
BRAVE RIFLES.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Dec 12 at 2015 7:59 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 19:59:15 -0500

I voted you down for oozing arrogance.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 10:52 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 22:52:56 -0500

Wow... This is sad

Response by SPC Ryan Medders made Dec 13 at 2015 12:18 AM

SPC Ryan Medders — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 00:18:39 -0500

So i guess you've never been to a motorpool. You know, when 11b's break their stuff and a 91b has to fix it, then gets voluntold for some patrol after that. Or has to go pull a burnt up truck back to the motorpool then turn around and pull convoy security. Yeah, but they don't deserve the same level of respect... yeah that makes sense

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 1:38 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 01:38:52 -0500

I was a Combat Medic in the Army... long before my commision as an AF ofgicer. I was deployed twice to South America. Take it from me... EVERYBODY BLEEDS! So everyone ultimately shares the same risk.

I dont need any special recognition beyond the self-respect I gained by realizing I was proud and capable to do my job... and had the gratitude of my country for doing so.

Everyone in the service deserves the same recognition and respect.

A warrior is not only the one who fought... but also the one who willingly stood between danger ad what he loves.

Response by SPC Christopher Renkel made Dec 13 at 2015 4:29 AM

SPC Christopher Renkel — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 04:29:24 -0500

Without Intel would they even know where the fight is?

Response by SGT Romeo Reyes made Dec 13 at 2015 6:18 AM

SGT Romeo Reyes — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:18:37 -0500

Can't be done. Someone high up in the chain will just smack it down and we'll have another "Give the Black Beret Away" fiasco......

Response by Cpl Evan Kikla made Dec 13 at 2015 6:42 AM

Cpl Evan Kikla — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:42:28 -0500

Completely agree. And what a lot of higher ups are missing is you treat your Infantry like shit compared to your pogs.

When I was a grunt I worked longer hours, did more miserable work, and statistically promoted less and promoted slower than many peers on the pog side. So you might think everyone ought to get treated the same but we have a way to go even to that goal.
Additionally the infantry is the heart and soul of the corps. A little bit of deference would he appreciated. In the old days this was called common sense, or "you look like an asshole kicking grunts out the chow line for being dirty when they just got to the rear after a month in the field" but we don't have that today.

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Dec 13 at 2015 7:05 AM

SGT Greg Gold — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 07:05:05 -0500

Warriors, come out and play-aye!!

That was the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 7:58 AM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 07:58:32 -0500

The military already is the warrior class. I believe pilots in all services have a higher mortality rate than grunts. We all do what we do. The machine works best when all the parts work well together. As Belichick says to each and every member of the football team, "Do your job."

Response by SGT Joshua Coppola made Dec 13 at 2015 8:30 AM

SGT Joshua Coppola — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 08:30:00 -0500

You get recognition, blue cord, blue disc backers, and a blue backed badge. Beyond that, you're the same as every other person in the military, you wake up, do your job, go to sleep and repeat. 11B, then 89D, so I've been on both sides of the argument.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 8:37 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 08:37:16 -0500

I see a lot of negative votes for you and I disagree with that. Everyone has a right to an opinion. But to your point, in a war like we currently fight mos is immaterial. Soldiers of every job have face the challenges of this war and have seen combat. I've done just as many tours as many in combat mos' and been engaged as well.
That said combat arms is choice. And your Blue is your recognition. Other than that somebody might get you a cookie but that's about it... Ask yourself could you do the job of an aviation mechanic. Or a parachute rigger, or a cook, ammunition specialist, or any other of the 150+ careers. Bottom line without your CS and CSS you would lose. Period. Read any book about war and the one tactic that has always made a country win is attack the supply line. You can't win without beans and bullets, intelligence and communication, 11B so maybe now you can see us in equal regard.

Response by William Billings made Dec 13 at 2015 9:35 AM

William Billings — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 09:35:58 -0500

Just an ordinary civilian here....never served ( although I did get offered to join post college as an OCS candidate, which I stupidly turned down ....oh well, roads not taken.....anyway.....) - seems like the vast majority of responses favor no special treatment of a "warrior class", pointing out that everyone on the team contributes, and sacrifices in their own way. I think that most folks recognize the unofficial pecking order anyway, and know who's a member of the warrior class or not. As others have pointed out, certain roles are inherently more dangerous than others, but one can never be certain as to what one can be called upon to do in any role. As many have pointed out, it takes the entire team to make it all happen, or else the "warriors" can't function. My father served as an officer in the Merchant Marine in WW2 in the engine room - in spite of this, he still was wounded in a "skirmish" with a U-Boat, and suffered for the remainder of his life with those wounds - one would never consider his specialty as being one of those in the warrior class, but he sacrificed his body just as much as a Marine would have on Iwo Jima.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 10:11 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 10:11:16 -0500

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crunchy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 10:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 10:32:11 -0500

Typical cocky grunt. Nobody takes away from what infantry, grunts or operators do. Hell if anybody deserves more respect its operators. Those small group of elite who sure as hell have done more than general infantry. One team one fight. It takes every mos/job to make everything work.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 10:58 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 10:58:12 -0500

Spoken like a McDonald's employee demanding $15/hr.

Response by CW5 Mike Smith made Dec 13 at 2015 11:04 AM

CW5 Mike Smith — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 11:04:29 -0500

I bet your part that yoing group that got a "Participation Trophy". Witjout winning a thing. Respect is earned, your on a team and need all parts to be effective.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Dec 13 at 2015 11:44 AM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 11:44:18 -0500

You are not really serious? Are you?

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 11:57 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 11:57:51 -0500

I started to give you a thumbs down, but I'll refrain. You surely aren't living up to the Army Values at this moment. Every MOS the Army has to offer is important. We are a team, and one doesn't work without the other. When your guys get wounded do they not need a medic? At that moment that medic is the most important. When your guys needs supplies to do their mission, do they not need that quartermaster Soldier? At that moment that quartermaster is the most important. When your guys are not getting paid for that promotion they just got or they are waiting for something important in the mail do they not need that finance and AG Soldier? At that moment finance and AG are the most important. So for you to post such a post is asinine. We all work hard to keep the Army going. And at the end of the day, just like you, ALL Soldiers are expected and are required to be able pick up a weapon and to hit the ground running and fight and kill all enemies of the United States of America, foreign or domestic!

Response by SFC Alfonso Moore made Dec 13 at 2015 12:00 PM

SFC Alfonso Moore — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 12:00:15 -0500

he must be joking

Response by PO2 Peter Klein made Dec 13 at 2015 12:37 PM

PO2 Peter Klein — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 12:37:13 -0500

We already are having one established for us with the end of the draft and over a decade of war in the Middle East.

Response by CPT Stephon Gilbert made Dec 13 at 2015 2:32 PM

CPT Stephon Gilbert — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:32:25 -0500

I totally disagree with this statement...I have been privileged to have been both a Marine Infantry NCO and also an Army Officer (LG) and in my logistics career I spent more time off the FOB on the road in imminent danger than I ever did as an infantryman....so this comment is not only demoralizing to all "non combatents" but also factually untrue...

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 4:31 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 16:31:42 -0500

There already is a military warrior class, it's called U.S. Marines. From the first moments recruits set foot in boot camp, they are taught that they are joining elite American warrior culture. It is in their doctrine that Marines are all rifleman first, and MOS specification second. Ask any Marine what is their occupation, and their first response will be "Marine". They are drilled in their battle history, and can have memorized it by heart. They refuse creature comforts and choose to live disciplined, austere (by most military branches standards) lifestyles. They firmly believe that "Once a Marine, Always Marine" because they earned their title, and it remains with them forever. This is probably what some may consider propaganda or brainwashing, but the Marine warrior class is a real thing. The Marine Corps may have invented it, but their enemies and the American public have confirmed it.

Response by SSG Christopher Massie made Dec 13 at 2015 8:47 PM

SSG Christopher Massie — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 20:47:03 -0500

Disagree you can't possibly place line infantry in the same class as operators. So what class do you designate them? Why does everyone feel they deserve recognition for the job they chose to do. You aren't the first, probably aren't the best and won't be the last. How demoralizing for your support units for an infantryman to think the rest of the army is beneath them. Without them you wouldn't have the things you need or the protection. You think that Kiowa pilot is less of a soldier than you? Or the mechanic that works relentless hours to make sure your vehicles are running? This is just ridiculous and for it to come from a senior NCO is embarrassing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 9:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 21:31:38 -0500

This is really a stupid ass question. First of all, everybody trains to be infantry, the reverse isn't true. In the past 13 years of wars many MOSs have had to fill the Infantry role. In one of my deployments one of my Soldiers received 2 purple hearts without leaving the wire due to rocket fire. In fact his platoon lost 2 men inside the camp from enemy fire. Why should they get less respect than you? Do you lift 100lbs artillery rounds multiple times per fire mission? Or have to carry those rounds across the firing point several times a day for resupply or cross-loading? We've had mechanics and cooks doing combat patrols.

Just which infantry should get this "higher regard"? All of them? So an 11B PFC working in the brigade or division TOC gets a higher regard than I do, after 24 years, multiple combat tours, multiple Airborne assignments? Should the infantry in the supporting effort brigades get more respect than the combat support or combat service support MOSs in the Cav Regiments and Squadrons in the front? I assure you, you don't do more than everybody else. We all work or asses off and you, and the "Operators" can't exist without everyone else.

Response by SSgt Scotty Marks made Dec 13 at 2015 10:46 PM

SSgt Scotty Marks — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 22:46:51 -0500

Written like a true army dog. Every Marine is a warrior, even our women. If Jessica Lynch had been a Marine, her dead, unmolested body would have been found among her dead attackers with a hot rifle and an empty magazine.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 12:50 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 00:50:18 -0500

You realize how helpless we are as Light Infantry? We need those support guys. Didn't how much they did when I was a PL, but now at the BN level it's obvious. Those SMs in the FSC work their asses off.

Response by SSG Rob Kumpf made Dec 14 at 2015 1:48 AM

SSG Rob Kumpf — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 01:48:34 -0500

This must be the dumbest, trolling post I've seen on here in quite awhile...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 2:10 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 02:10:25 -0500

I'm hoping you wrote this just to get a rise out of people.........

Response by CPO Kenneth Wilkinson made Dec 14 at 2015 2:37 AM

CPO Kenneth Wilkinson — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 02:37:10 -0500

As a non-warrior and being retired Navy I believe there should be a higher class. A pencil pusher should not be equal in pay. For me, I would pay anyone who is in a combatant a higher salary. Maybe add a third more to base pay and when deployed continue paying extra pays for being in combat. People getting paid should pull the trigger, push the button on a helo, drive the tanks etc. Sitting in a tent with the colonel does not count. Of course, what I am saying will not happen unless the government decides that the military is needed. Under the admin. we are in now and this Congress, this dream will never happen. You want the best, you pay the best and when hurt pay for their healthcare 100%. The promises I had when I joined in 1976 was that healthcare would be free for me and my family after I retired. LOL Be careful out there, Congress is willing to destroy any promise given as we see now. Congress though never looses anything.

Response by CPL Rob Stocker made Dec 14 at 2015 4:53 AM

CPL Rob Stocker — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 04:53:02 -0500

"we need a guy who knows radios... you... come here..."

"Go meet up with SFC Snuffy, he will square you away.."

"Hey POG, you're the one who knows radios.. good, carry this, keep up.. oh whats that? you have to carry an RT1523E, 3 whips, a kik and spare batteries? ...yes I still want you to cross load, heres some 50 ammo."

...yea because being the POG is always easier right?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 6:33 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 06:33:26 -0500

That's rediculous and best summarized by the complaints I heard as an IG with Task Force 134 in Iraq. The soldiers were frustrated because a Colonel weighed close to 300lbs if he weighed an pound. He had been serving over 30-years and was the only neurosurgeon in theater. Lets face it, I am proud of my combat arms soldiers but when I need brain surgery they are simply no substitute. Everyone has a role and a gift, to accentuate and over another demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of how we fight wars.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 7:26 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 07:26:32 -0500

I remember all the effort put into making no class distinction between us. And now we're saying we should create division, just to satisfy someone's need for recognition or feelings of superiority. I think it goes against the core of things.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 7:33 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 07:33:34 -0500

First of all everyone regardless of MOS or title is first and foremost a infantryman the wars in iraq and afganistan proved that . I personally know a parts clerk that i would chose him as my gunner over any grunt. As far as respect, that is earned not automatically given just cause you wear the crossed rifles.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 7:53 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 07:53:15 -0500

How many of the high value targets were infantryman? Make no mistake about it, we prepare to defeat the enemies infantry to get to those key center of gravity we need to defeat the enemy. We do it by destroying their aviation, signal, intelligence, information, etc. assets. It takes the entire team and we need exceptional support all areas.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 9:08 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 09:08:28 -0500

Back in My day, We ALL had to learn and perform Infantry tasks...

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 10:58 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 10:58:37 -0500

This comment kinda spits in the face of everyone else in the military. As an AF vehicle maintainer I've served right next to both parties for all branches on the battlefield (SF and Inf). So I
don't deserve any respect? Don't forget, Those fields are the only ones to get put in harms way.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 1:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 13:51:06 -0500

As military members we are equal. The phrase 'one team, one fight' means we all share the same goal. Our MOS may differ and we need to understand that. You can't compare apples to oranges. You willbe mislead if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree. You kick doors down, cool. I'm here to make sure you get the right door. I respect your dedication and discipline, as you respect me for mine.

Response by Sgt Judy Leonard made Dec 14 at 2015 2:54 PM

Sgt Judy Leonard — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 14:54:08 -0500

NO

Every troop in any field can find themselves in a combat situation.

Combat vets already get special treatment what more do you want? God Status?

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Dec 14 at 2015 3:44 PM

CPO Greg Frazho — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:44:37 -0500

I think, vis-a-vis the private sector and civilians as a whole, the military is a warrior class. It's apart and aside and yet also a component of the overall whole. As regards the people who do a lot of the fighting, I think they're already recognized as such inasmuch as they are on the salient edge of our defense. You have to give credit where credit's due, and even if you're not kicking in doors are putting rounds in targets, we're all on the same side. We all have the same overarching objectives: complete the mission, return home with honor and get ready for whatever's next. Easily said, however. Much less easier to practice that in the battle space.

Response by SGT Charles Ponton made Dec 14 at 2015 5:00 PM

SGT Charles Ponton — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 17:00:54 -0500

This is stupid, I took 2 minutes out of my day to (in short) say "You're and idiot."

Response by LTC Michael Hrycak made Dec 14 at 2015 9:18 PM

LTC Michael Hrycak — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:18:41 -0500

We already have a Warrior Class - the Combat Arms. We all know that and I don't think we need to remind ourselves, but we all play our part. I remember when I was a Cavalry Troop Commander and I assigned one of my Platoon Leaders to run the Mortar Range. My Executive Officer told me that not everyone goes through mortar training during the Armor Officer Basic Course anymore. I couldn't believe it, that type of training is what distinguishes us. However, we learn many things from other branches as well.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 10:56 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 22:56:11 -0500

I am a mustang officer. I was Infantry enlisted and Armor as an officer. I served in combat as an NCO and a Officer. I earned both the CIB and CAB. I say this, not to toot my horn, but to give context to my comment.
I think that the Infantry plays a very special role in the military. It is the Queen of Battle for a reason (think Chess). it is the only branch whose main mission is to close with and destroy the enemy. Other combat arms and combat service and support branches are also exposed to danger on a regular basis, but they are not tasked with the same purpose as the Infantry.
All that said, I don't remember ever hearing one 11 or 19 series soldier ever give respect by POG's as a reason for serving in their respective branches (I use this two branches only because they are the ones I served with in Iraq).
To demand respect by others is a bit much. It is earned, not demanded. The Infantry and combat arms guys already know they are the warrior class. We don't need recognition from others. In fact, the sina quon non of our branches is not to give a crap what others outside of them think.

Response by SGT Mike Shalayko made Dec 14 at 2015 11:36 PM

SGT Mike Shalayko — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 23:36:09 -0500

I really don't know how to respond to this , I was an 11h in e company 2nd 325inf bat 82nd abn, and every hq. Person we had was assigned to one of the companies 3 platoons and humped it right along with us most of the time when we were in the field, they rarely got over by being support mos's and they almost always had higher promotion pts. the we did

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 11:49 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 23:49:07 -0500

I wasted enough of my life reading this feed.....

Response by SgtMaj Anthony Goss made Dec 15 at 2015 12:52 AM

SgtMaj Anthony Goss — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 00:52:24 -0500

This has really got to be a joke. No self respecting Noncommissioned Officer would seriously post something like this. Why he believes that operators and infantry should be held in a higher regard I don't know but apparently he forgot about the team concept and the fact that they can't do there jobs without others supporting them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 1:57 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:57:05 -0500

I am a 13B and have deployed 3 times 1 to iraq and 2 to the stan. All three times i have done patrols and fought the enemy earned a purple heart and lost brothers and delivered some real pain to the enemys of my country. I am not infantry but in this days wars we have been used along with other MOS in this way for the entirety of this war and i have never regretted it. But if you say just infantry and operators then your are sadly mistaken on the dynamics of our current battfield you should do some research before making comments that hold no weight

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 5:07 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 05:07:34 -0500

I think this comment comes out of a different culture completely. It's a different job and a different outlook then I'm used to. Either you're at sea or your on shore duty. If you're at sea, your part of a team that contributes the whole mission of your ship, with all the shared dangers and responsibilities of acting on a ship. So, no, there shouldn't be any differentiation between "grunt" or "POG." It doesn't really apply across the board.

Response by SGT Alan Simmons made Dec 15 at 2015 8:41 AM

SGT Alan Simmons — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 08:41:12 -0500

I had a very wise Drill Sergeant (SSG Boone) that once told us during the AIT phase at Fort Benning, that although we were the "queen of the battle" not to forget that if we fail in our job, every other soldier, sailor, and airman not in the Infantry becomes part of the fighting force - everyone would have to pick up a rifle. He warned us that it takes every one - cooks, medics, clerks, and even second lieutenants all doing their jobs so that we can do our job.

Although your post did bring up a good discussion, how would elevating the combat arms MOS higher than all the others benefit the Army, which is supposed to be one big team, help in unit cohesion, mission readiness, and morale? I started my military career as an 11B, then was reclassed as part of the 11X program to become an 11M. Because of injuries sustained in the line of duty, I was later reclassed to 71D (Legal Specialist in 1989). I carried the teaching of Drill Sergeant Boone with me for the remainder of my military career - and to assure that the men of the infantry and armor units I was assigned to were able to do their best, I set a higher standard for myself in the capacity of my new MOS. I dunno, maybe I am wrong, but even the most elite combat units need their non-combatants to do their jobs so the rest of the unit can stay mission centered.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 9:58 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 09:58:17 -0500

Sounds like a bunch of whining to me from another person that thinks everyone owes them something. We do this for a different reason other than people owing us something, but nice try anyway, maybe someday you will truly understand what it means to be a Soldier.

Response by PO1 Joshua Pickett made Dec 15 at 2015 11:15 AM

PO1 Joshua Pickett — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 11:15:10 -0500

While I do agree that the military is a team, and it takes every soldier in every MOS to get the mission done. The Infantry and SF do deserve to be held at a higher level, in some ways. If anyone has ever read the Book Starship Troopers, one part states you know your in a messed up military, when you have more Corprals/E4's than you do privates and more support troops than combat soldiers. I feel the whole issue would go away, If most support units would act and conduct themselves as if they were Infantry Units. Adopt a Warrior First Mentality

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 12:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:38:37 -0500

Infantry is the infantry. Yes they find themeselves in more bad situations than any other MOS I'm sure. But infantry are the pawns of a chess board. They are just a distraction on the battlefield as we use artillery, rockets, CAS to really make a statement. And not to mention what about the MOS that have to cover down and do the same maneuvers that you do. I am an artilleryman and proud of it. I was first deployed as a maneuver unit using infantry tactics as we controlled a city in Afghanistan back in 2003. We busted in doors, got in firefights, and work with special op forces to eastablish their security. So why would they be held in a higher class. And then you look at the knowledge of what the infantryman really has to learn. It's minimal compared to other MOSs. Their equipment is a lot less. And then again these other MOS are doing your duties at times. So why would hold them at a higher level. Hey already have their awards specifically to infantry. Isn't that enough. I'm still waiting for the day artillery gets a special identifying mark to wear with the uniform. I really would like to see the gold stripe on an asu uniform changed to a red one. It's history. Enough said. The infantry is the basic soldier in my opinion. King of battle.

Response by SGT Timothy Douglas made Dec 15 at 2015 12:44 PM

SGT Timothy Douglas — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500

everyone has their cross to bear, I have worked both sides of fence and believe it or not I experienced allot of hardship working out of combat arms, not as many as in but enough to feel a warrior class is not needed, that's why they have tan berets CIBs and other recognition symbols. If anything after working some of the non combat jobs I have an even greater respect for behind the line jobs

Response by LCpl Jesse Foust made Dec 15 at 2015 2:20 PM

LCpl Jesse Foust — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 14:20:08 -0500

I was Military Police. Non-combat arms. We did regular humps up to 20 miles in full gear and occasionally crew served weapons. We did convoy security, bringing supplies to "Infantry and Operators" and even offered direct support to Force Recon (at the time) Marines on operations. Where would that fall in your lineup for respect?

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 15 at 2015 3:19 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:19:28 -0500

Stupid thread, the Military is the Warrior class of America.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 5:17 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:17:28 -0500

Since you are not appreciative of my work, I will happily withhold all of my intelligence information from you and your team of grunts. Let's see how long you last in the sandbox without I&W.

Response by SGT Mike Mangual made Dec 15 at 2015 6:11 PM

SGT Mike Mangual — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 18:11:59 -0500

Dam sarge really that kind of argant it takes around 8 REMF to get you the things you need
How about the 88M that jumped back into a burning vehicle with fuel soaked gear on to save his
comrades in arms ?
Not trying to be a smart ass but dam

Response by MSG Anthony DiFondi made Dec 15 at 2015 7:57 PM

MSG Anthony DiFondi — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 19:57:51 -0500

This is probably the most pathetic, self serving post I have ever seen on here. You want everyone to kiss your ass? Give me a break.

I have served as a combat arms Soldier and as a support Soldier. The Army is a team, not two classes of people. Comments like this serve to divide our proud organization.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 9:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:20:28 -0500

Wow. They actully promoted this guy to SFC. I have spent 19 years supporting the trigger pullers. (Signal you can talk about us but you cant talk without us).

This is the biggest personafaction of whats wrong with SNCO's. Just some of you forgot where you came from. And some of you stood on your peers and Soldiers to get there.

And the truth is we are all warriors, hence the warrior ethos. Anyone who thinks other wise needs to head to the door.

I give props to my Combat Arms brothers out there. The trigger pullers, door kickers and string pullers. I guess he forgot that he is looked up to as a 11B and as a SNCO.

Response by SPC Matthew Morris made Dec 15 at 2015 11:44 PM

SPC Matthew Morris — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 23:44:33 -0500

Hmm, I was a POG, but you did, do, and will always sorely miss my cannons when you need them.

Sincerely, Papi
AKA King of Battle

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 2:33 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:33:11 -0500

Bloated ego much?

Response by CPL Darnell McLaurin made Dec 16 at 2015 7:31 AM

CPL Darnell McLaurin — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 07:31:19 -0500

What does higher respect look like? Is the salute held higher, or longer? Respect is earned and mutual

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 9:40 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:40:05 -0500

sergeant being humble goes a long way...

Response by SSgt Mac Mor made Dec 16 at 2015 3:22 PM

SSgt Mac Mor — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 15:22:32 -0500

Two things for you;
Firstly you apparently haven't been in long enough to know that every gear in the machine keeps it going.
And the most important one is, you should have join the Marines were everyone is trained as a basic infantryman. And in the Marines we don't really care, a brother is a brother.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 16 at 2015 3:35 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 15:35:13 -0500

I was enlisted in an Aviation Regiment and later became a Tank Officer. Killers have a rough life of hard training and hard battles. I took every opportunity to train while we were in the field, every weather condition we accepted, and we were often stoic as we conducted our missions. I have given the killers a little more love for the suffering they experience on the battlefield and at home.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 4:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:41:56 -0500

Well there it is, the stupidest thing I'll read all day. I'm embarrassed for you SFC for making such an absurd statement. I have been a POG for my 25 years of service, had a POG job when I was deployed to Afghanistan. In my career I always had a high respect for the Infantry for obvious reasons. I knew they were warriors and my job was to provide proper support to them. I didn't need anyone to point that out to me. That came to me with my own common sense.

Response by SSG Michael Miller made Dec 16 at 2015 4:50 PM

SSG Michael Miller — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:50:47 -0500

I'm so glad I'm home these days, wrapped up my DD214 blanket. As a former NCO in the infantry, i sit here wondering how to even respond. Yeah we might have done a job requiring a lot of physical damage to our bodies and mental strength different from that of support MOS's, but we chose that job knowing the outcome. I hold myself no higher than any other soldier, but I take pride in knowing I was one of the few that chose to join the infantry. Every job in the military is necessary, without support MOS's we don't get beans, bullets, and paid. Your mind is obviously gone.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 5:18 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 17:18:23 -0500

This is beyond ignorant. I suppose you never heard of asymmetrical warfare? Second the most dangerous job during OIF was 88M not 11B. I would argue that MPs and Combat Engineers had a harder job than most infantryman.

Response by CPO S Raulerson made Dec 16 at 2015 11:37 PM

CPO S Raulerson — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 23:37:19 -0500

I find it offensive that you classify infantryman with operators while in the same breath belittling every other warfighter. Is that close in air support your receiving....you know the dude dodging rockets any less of a warfighter. I appreciate your bravado and the my job is more dangerous then yours mentality but you are not special. I promise you that if you don't show up tomorrow your service will roll on. You are no bigger then your unit, your command, and your service. Think I'm kidding.....run out of toilet paper and see who the most important person around is.

Response by PO2 Brian Tompkins made Dec 17 at 2015 1:18 AM

PO2 Brian Tompkins — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 01:18:37 -0500

They already have,,,,,,,its called SPECIAL FORCES...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 9:06 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 09:06:58 -0500

The best part is that we already have a warrior class, it's guys who go day in and day out and do their job without seeking praise or special privilege. We are quiet professionals and we are professional. I personally carry that chip on my shoulder because I know what I have done and what I have pushed my body through. But going off and blabbing or seeking recognition for it is not professional. We do not need a warrior class, we as leaders need to teach what it is to be a professional.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 9:50 AM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 09:50:52 -0500

Quite frankly, I am rather tired of seeing this discussion pop up in my news feed. I have yet to see a valid argument for the original poster's stance and think this thread should just be closed.

Response by CPT Paul Jackson made Dec 17 at 2015 11:42 AM

CPT Paul Jackson — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:42:07 -0500

Those 11Bs are always so big and tough until they need Fires...

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Dec 17 at 2015 12:12 PM

SGM Robin Johnson — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:12:17 -0500

Give me your address where you want your cookie mailed. Give me a break. You must desperately need the RallyPoint points for posting a discussion question to even put this out there. Having seen the wounded over the last 11 years before I retired in 2012, I can tell you first hand that the enemy isn't discriminating based on MOS. But you feel the need, obviously. Check yourself.

Response by SGT John Childs made Dec 17 at 2015 1:02 PM

SGT John Childs — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 13:02:56 -0500

Well done on the social engineering objectives

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 2:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 14:53:10 -0500

Oh for the love of God this gets brought up every year it's a never ending battle. Not everyone kicks in doors. Just like the people in the rear does all of the shot I don't want to do. If your in it for respect your in the wrong job. Your in to protect people who can't protect themselves and your bros/sisters to your left and right. Get of your high horse. There are plenty of people who are constantly in sketchy situation that aren't 11 or 18 series

Response by SSG John Jensen made Dec 17 at 2015 3:28 PM

SSG John Jensen — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 15:28:10 -0500

that's fine, as long as you recognize those that reclassed after their early days, if you see a PAC NCO, or supply sgt, or cook with an EIB or CIB, recognize him as such

Response by SGT John Rauch made Dec 17 at 2015 4:05 PM

SGT John Rauch — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 16:05:30 -0500

wow, havent been on RP in over a month and this kind of topic is exactly why.....honestly thought this was a duffel blog thing at first.......moron

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 7:10 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 07:10:24 -0500

1. This POG will kick your ass. Proven at every combatives tournament.
2. I am a mechanic who does all the training you do, would have been the only true blue at EIB lanes if I was 11 series, selected over all combat arms to be COL's PSO, still selected for 7 in 7, and still have to fix your trucks everyday.
3. I did 3 deployments in 5 years, all combat positions down range. Don't tell me shit. Rant complete.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 8:04 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:04:45 -0500

You sound so foolish right now.

Response by SGT John Childs made Feb 4 at 2016 3:46 PM

SGT John Childs — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:46:58 -0500

Bump

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Feb 4 at 2016 6:28 PM

SGT Mark Rhodes — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 18:28:13 -0500

I responded on this before and I cannot believe it has passed along this far. This is the mind of an egotistic person. You really need to check yourself WARRIOR, lol

Response by LCpl Chad Parson made Feb 11 at 2016 11:59 PM

LCpl Chad Parson — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 23:59:26 -0500

The military does have a Warrior class. It's called the United States Marine Corps.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 12:03 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 00:03:14 -0500

Should I treat you "legs" the same way? AATW! Our FCS works all night supporting the line while they are sleeping. One Army, One fight. Get a grip. Together we win wars. Never alienate the ones who support the line.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 3:39 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 15:39:52 -0500

In a sense, there already is this divide. Combat experience vs none, valor awards vs those without, uniform devices and covers (berets, Stetsons even), and the like already make a distinction between those who've fought or signed up to fight (with varying means of insertion/extraction) versus those who haven't, don't, can't, or won't.
But here's the thing...everyone has a part to play, and we all must work as a team in order to accomplish our missions. "Bullets don't fly without supply" is one way of looking at it, but I prefer the 5th SOF truth to drive my point home:
Most Special Operations require non-SOF assistance.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 12 at 2016 8:45 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sat, 12 Mar 2016 20:45:09 -0500

Respect has to be earned. NO to the question. What about "team" don't you understand. Yea, I down voted you because if this is how you think, then you need to reclass into a CSS MOS and learn a bit.

Response by LCpl Jesse Foust made Apr 2 at 2016 3:14 PM

LCpl Jesse Foust — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 15:14:16 -0400

I think my main problem with this is; what would it mean on the ground? Would a supply officer be "under" an infantry non-NCO? That doesn't make sense. How would we know who to give extra respect to in a branch like the Corps, where there are no identifying markings on uniforms?

Response by SGT David Starr made Apr 9 at 2016 10:23 PM

SGT David Starr — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 22:23:40 -0400

The military does have a warrior class it starts when you graduate Boot camp/Basic training everything after that is just improving skills not all members are cut out to put boots on the ground but they are required/needed to keep the boots on the ground and advancing. I am thankful that each of us finds our place in the service of our country and does the best they can.

Response by SFC Charles Temm made Apr 10 at 2016 12:33 PM

SFC Charles Temm — Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:33:49 -0400

Those that know mainly do so I think. In service, there is a healthy rivalry between combat arms and support and more than a bit of mutual disdain too. That has been so since the legions and it's probably never going away.

Face it the civ world does not care unless they are vets or family members of those who've done the time. That may get irritating at times but perhaps it's for the best. Our Republic has done quite well throughout it's history w/o a publicly acknowledged "warrior class" despite it's fortune in having one in the form of long serving professional NCOs/officers rather unique in republican history.

We all served for various reasons, long term or not. I never expected recognition outside of family and service and I seldom got any until the last few years as it's become popular to "thank a vet".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2016 9:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:32:11 -0400

I was in a support MOS 92G, while I was a cook I worked more hours and made sure my 13 bang bangs got more than their fair share when the came through the chow line even to make sure the simplest thing as getting a hot meal would, could possibly remind them something of home away from.
Now that being said being an infantryman when I see other support MOS escp. Cooks I know the hard work that they put in and I make sure to thank them whether in garrison or in the field.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2016 7:06 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 07:06:53 -0400

How important is a resupply of your ammo? How about that medic who saved your closest friend? I know a few military personnel who have made it a NUMBER ONE priority to LOCATE, NEUTRALIZE and PUNISH those who feel that it's OK to FRAG another. If you are an 11 Bravo, 13 Delta or a LRRP, ask a member of Special OPs , the importance of RELIANCE on the man next to you. Ever wonder why, during a " firefight", it would NOT be a good idea to SALUTE your Platoon Leader? or worse still, your Platoon Sgt, Squad leader? The enemy knows exactly how important LEADERSHIP is to the survival of any unit. So, that resupply chopper is manned by NON II Bravos. Fair to consider them AS IMPORTANT??

Response by SGM Mike Bachini made Apr 17 at 2016 8:33 AM

SGM Mike Bachini — Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:33:17 -0400

GTFOH... Are you kidding me? What a sorry excuse of a leader you are and you ave no concept of operating in a team. Take your narsacissitic attitude and shove it in your duffle bag and fix yourself.

Response by SGM Mike Bachini made Apr 17 at 2016 8:40 AM

SGM Mike Bachini — Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:40:35 -0400

Response by SPC Melonnie Covington-Pryor made Apr 17 at 2016 12:42 PM

SPC Melonnie Covington-Pryor — Sun, 17 Apr 2016 12:42:07 -0400

It sounds like a video game title

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2016 12:56 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:56:52 -0400

As former Cavalry Scout and later Combat Medic, I can tell you no job is easy and every job is critical for you or anyone to be badass in the military. In fact during and sometime after world war II 19Ds was actually classified as 11D MOS until someone decided it belongs with armor and Cav Scouts in the past used to receive Combat Infantryman Badge as it should be since they are basically targeting dummies unlike infantry who are bitches who walk after them. How's that for ego stroking?
And please tell me how much of a badass you are when your ass gets hurt and you have to report to the medical station or got your balls blown off by IED. With the medic by your side, please tell me who is the real badass now?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2016 9:02 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 May 2016 09:02:40 -0400

Please do not confuse my sarcasm with disrespect.
Begin Sarcasm
The best reason to join the military should be the respect earned from being an 11Bang-bang... There's no reason in be humble and happy with just, ya know: defending your country, the Constitution, bringing peace and safety to those subject to violent extremist organizations...
Everyone knows that Superman only saves the world because people show him love.
Everyone knows that policemen only serve and protect because of the respect they get from wearing a uniform.
End Sarcasm
We're soldiers. Our job is to do what's right.
If you're only an infantryman because of the glory, then I pity you.
How about we treat "defending freedom" with higher regard?

Response by Sgt David Hesser made Jun 17 at 2016 6:09 PM

Sgt David Hesser — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 18:09:54 -0400

It is attempt to build your self esteem and tear down that of your supporting soldiers, that also get killed on the battle field, in ten years you will look back on this statement and wish you never made it.

Response by SSG Joseph Henderson made Jun 17 at 2016 6:13 PM

SSG Joseph Henderson — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 18:13:58 -0400

Yeah because they are the only ones that have died. WTF! SMFH!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2016 6:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 18:16:39 -0400

Hahahahaha is this a joke? The air must be pretty thin up on that pedestal. Good job on embarrassing yourself. Probably some of the worst drivel, I've ever heard coming from a senior NCO...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2016 7:18 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 19:18:21 -0400

If you're demanding respect, you probably the type of person who doesn't deserve it. You earn respect not demand it. Get off your high horse and earn it.

Response by SSG Jason Turner made Jun 17 at 2016 7:23 PM

SSG Jason Turner — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 19:23:25 -0400

Ok D bag, I'll remember that next time you need fire support. Fuck off.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2016 8:01 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:01:32 -0400

You need to write for Duffeblog, Sergeant.

Response by SFC Carlos Gamino made Jun 17 at 2016 8:16 PM

SFC Carlos Gamino — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:16:32 -0400

If you are looking for glory then you are probably right. Rounds don't discrimate and every service member contributes to a winning team and are equally in danger and important as any combat arms sm. I wonder what your response would be to a sm that could possibly be saving your life on an operating table.

Response by Sgt Jamie Grippin made Jun 17 at 2016 8:18 PM

Sgt Jamie Grippin — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:18:43 -0400

do you want to knight them too........ just no, the grunt in the field would be lost without all the support elements. That isn't meant to downplay their role at the tip of the spear but be are successful be we function as a team. The one thing that set the Marines apart from the other services is that they are fully integrated. Everyone exists to support the grunt and as a team they get the job down. The other services work together on an as needed basis but adding a warrior class would just add class hierarchy that would not benefit anyone in the long term.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Jun 17 at 2016 8:34 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:34:16 -0400

I believe some of you are missing something. First, we should acknowledge that every individual has some level of personal need to feel its THEM and THEIR JOB that is the most mission-critical one. This is something of a fundamental human design flaw...but it what it is.

Secondly and more importantly, there are vast differences between those who serve by doing the safest and least risky/deployable jobs only to latch onto future college money...and those willing to takebon maximum potential risk because they are in it for the cause and less interested in the personal gain.

Consider this a refresher course on the definition of "respect" in the contextbof this discussion. Seems to me there are a lotnof people who want fancy valorous awards without daring to put themselves into positions where they would ever see such opportunities to need to do anything but the bare minimums.

Personally I find the Grunt VS POG argument to be rather silly. However there arent many other measures of potential self-sacrifice aside from the Grunt Life.

We know the usual point being made aboutbit taking 9 POGs to support each Grunt. Nobody is really arguing that. But the part often left out...is that the fundamental purpose of the military IS the combat arms element. Its not Grunts are needed because of what POGs do...its POGs are needed because of what Grunts do. And the notion of valor begins with the willingness/desire to put country before self and not shying away from personal risk.

Im sure most POGs will take offense to this. Its rather expected from those too scared to handle the dirtier work. Pushing pencils and pushing enemy lines backward aren't even in the same ballpark of work. As most military believe that civilians should show some respect/gratitude for what we military collectively do...its the Grunts ensuring the POGs enjoy those same benefits. Every POG had an opportunity to be a Grunt. And for those career-minded, doing your stint of Grunt time probably should be done while you are younger...as it both likely makes you more promotable later on, as well as gives you better insight as to just what exactly it may be that POGs are supporting. If some folks were " too scared" to consider any Grunt time...fine...but it shouldnt be much to ask to give a little respect to those whom were not.

As the saying goes...Everyone wants to be a Hero until its time to do some Hero-shit.

Semper Fi.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2016 8:41 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:41:10 -0400

Yet that is EXACTLY what is is, a put down of not only other MOS's but a put down of your sister services. Each member of the various services has their job to do. Sometimes that job is putting ordinance on target and sometimes is making sure the shooter get the beans, bullets and band-aids he needs to continue putting iron on foreheads. And we all need the money guys to make sure we get paid on time. Just because soldier one is a bullet catcher and soldier two is a dental assistant doesn't mean he/she gives any less to the effort.

This is the type of attitude I would almost expect from PVT Snuffy or maybe PFC Dufflebag. But I hold Sr NCOs to a higher standard and would expect someone who has attained the status of Sr. NCO to understand each soldier, sailor, airman or Marine contributes to the mission.

Response by CPL Patrick Brewbaker made Jun 17 at 2016 10:49 PM

CPL Patrick Brewbaker — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:49:42 -0400

I'm a Marine, I'm a retired Guardsman, I've studied Budo for 30 some years. I am a warrior. A little pudgy now, inside I'm still that 18 year old Marine.

Response by SGT Rodrigo Contreras made Jun 17 at 2016 11:16 PM

SGT Rodrigo Contreras — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 23:16:56 -0400

I was an 11B2H and I am going to respectfully disagree. We are a Combined Arms force: Armor, Artillery, Infantry, Special Operations, Aviation, Combat Engineers, etc... At any time everyone one of us may be called to pick up a rifle
And Stand To. Rather than claim one branch or group is better than the others how about we encourage each other to maintain warfighter skills across the board.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 6:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 06:36:43 -0400

This is ridiculous. During my time as a crew member, every time we picked up a bunch of infantry guys I did everything I could to show them respect and to make their ride to or from the shit as pleasant as it could be. Everyone I worked with did the same. But honestly, we all go through training to be the best at what we do. You guys picked a more physical job and that is where most of your wear and tear will be. That alone does not warrant "extra" respect. Being the ones that do a lot of the fighting is something most other jobs already respect more highly than other SMs in their own branch as it is. No we all have a job to do and I will treat all soldiers with the same level of respect as dictated by professionalism with a little extra for those coming home from a shitty mission.

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Jun 18 at 2016 8:35 AM

GySgt Carl Rumbolo — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 08:35:40 -0400

Seriously - and you are SFC and asking this question? Either you are totally clueless (which calls to question how you made SFC) or just a troll - the military is a team - rear area, support, logistics, etc all contribute to the success. Without support specialists, administration, logistics, combat support, etc the 'operators' (where the fuck did we come up with that term?) are unable to do their jobs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 12:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:53:29 -0400

As an "operator" I can say I've always been treated with the respect and regard I have earned, as are any other soldiers. We already receive specialty pays and get decent reenlistment bonuses. I don't know what else you expect. We don't do it for those reasons though, we do it to serve our country the best that we can like anyone else. DOL

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2016 11:36 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:36:03 -0400

I was a Marine artilleryman, and I always found that the infantry had so much "Respect" for themselves that they didn't need any more from me. If those grunts were half as awesome as they thought they were, theywouldn't have needed me out there slinging steal. What kind of extra respect should us lowly pogues show you kick-ass operators, SFC Esquivel? A salute? Head-of-the-line priveleges at the PX? I'd offer to shine your boots, but I know we're all wearing swade boots now...

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 4:07 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:07:45 -0400

As a Marine Artilleryman, I found that the infantry had so much "Respect" for themselves, they didn't need any extra from me. If they were half as awesome as they thought they were, they wouldn't need me behind them slinging steel.

So, SFC Esquivel, what form should this extra respect that us lowly pogues owe you take? Maybe a modified salute? Head of the line privileges at the PX? I'd offer to polish your boots, but we're all wearing suede now...

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Dec 29 at 2016 12:00 PM

MAJ Alvin B. — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 12:00:23 -0500

NO! There should not be the deliberate creation of a 'Warrior Class" as each member of the military serves a vital function. In effect, no one truly fights alone. Each branch, each career field, each occupational specialty, from Special Operations Forces to Recruiting, and everything in between, serve a vital role in keeping this Nation free. This includes, active, reserve, national guard, auxiliary, and civilians. To believe anything else is to display an unfortunate combination of arrogance an ignorance. Each service already recognizes the importance of combat arms personnel via distinctive items (e.g. blue shoulder cords for infantry, etc...).

it should be noted that in the 40 odd years since the termination of the draft and the creation of the all volunteer force in the early 1970s our society has in effect created an emerging "military class." The goodness or badness of this development and the larger ramifications for our future remain to be seen.

Response by PVT Nicholas Hernandez made Jan 17 at 2017 11:19 PM

PVT Nicholas Hernandez — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 23:19:51 -0500

Remember we are the best trained soldiers in the world, as long as you never forget. Who cares what pogs think we know and understand what we do, I don't need someone reminding why my body hurts when I wake up. My body tells me and that's all I need. Our scars tell our stories

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Mar 13 at 2017 8:27 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:27:56 -0400

No.

Response by LCpl Stephen Arnold made Mar 27 at 2017 11:14 AM

LCpl Stephen Arnold — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 11:14:13 -0400

No blue cord or silly little pin on your blouse is going to save you when an ISIS douchebag has a dull kitchen knife at your neck. If I'm ever in that spot, and all the US can muster is a bunch of hungover cooks to save me, send them. Still beats the alternative.

This grunt/pog shit has gone on forever, but the bottom line is we ALL serve our respective branches with pride and fulfill our obligations/missions to the best of our ability.

Response by SFC Mark Biggs made Mar 29 at 2017 1:05 PM

SFC Mark Biggs — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 13:05:31 -0400

There is already a higher level of honor and recognition for Infantry and Medics. They respectively are awarded the Combat Infantry Badge or Combat Medic Badge for their combat service. Even for those with the above MOS who haven't been in combat, they can go through testing and earn the Expert Infantry Badge or the Expert Field Medical Badge. As far as promotions are concerned, the promotion cut off scores for combat arms have nearly always been lower due to needing a higher number of new E5 and E6 NCOs in those Moss. So there's part of our warrior culture.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 30 at 2017 4:21 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:21:17 -0400

We are the warrior class. All of us regardless of MOS/AFSC are warriors. We all took the same oath and should all be equally willing to defend our nation and die for it if necessary. Elite military units are uniquely recognizable (SF, Rangers, PJs, SEALS, aviators). We don't need to separate them from the rest of the service members any more than already done. One team, one fight!

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 30 at 2017 5:35 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:35:48 -0400

What about those supply guys and gals that run the convoys through enemy territory? or the cooks that are at the Op Base? or the aircrew that is dodging SAM's to either airdrop you supplies or to direct the fire to get your butt out of trouble? I agree with Col Smallfield below when he said this is a team sport...period...one person fails and the chain breaks. Everyone that has ever raised their hand and took an oath is a warrior class. Just because they didn't get selected to be a grunt doesn't make them any less a warrior than the guy engaging the enemy. By writing this you just blew 2 of your seven Army core values...Respect and Selfless Service!!!
https://www.army.mil/values/ Definitions are at this link for your reading pleasure.

Army Values

List of Army Values are Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 3:36 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 03:36:37 -0400

The moment I start to see Stolen Valor posers claiming to be cooks or mechanics then maybe all the "the army is a team" type comments will have a more significant impact on my opinion. I see a lot of but hurt comments on here from people who want equality and believe they're in the same level as other MOS'. Be proud of the MOS you chose. If you're a cook then be proud to go to the chow hall and flip eggs and fill drink machines and prep salads. If you're a mechanic be proud to turn wrenches and change wheels. If you're a pac clerk then be proud to flip file and submit paperwork. Anyone who is an infantryman is proud to be that. Same with tankers and cav scouts. They're proud of their branch. Be proud of yours and stop getting emotional anytime a question of distinction of MOS' are brought up. Stolen Valor people don't claim to have picked up cases of MRE's or turning a wrench or fueling a vehicle. Stolen Valor perpetrators wear CIB' and Ranger and SF tabs. They wear blue cords and blue discs and cross rifles. That right there should tell you that society views that there is a "warrior class". 80% of the comments I've read about this post tell me that people are in their feelings because they don't feel like they are being treated the same as combat arms. Well guess what? You're not treated the same. You're treated like whatever your MOS is. Point blank period. Everyone is not a rifleman. Everyone is not basically infantry. Everyone does not do what the infantry does. Just like the infantry doesn't do what other jobs do. The title rifleman is one of the first titles earned after the infantryman graduates infantry OSUT. The rifleman everyone speaks of is the regular soldier that should have a basic understanding of basic tasks....not basic infantry tasks or small unit tactics. But he'll once most of non infantry or combat arms people graduate your basic training you lose every ounce of proficiency gained. That's the reality. I've seen it time and time again in my career. You better be proud of the MOS you chose because infantrymen, tankers, and cav scouts are. Get out of your feelings ladies and gentlemen.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 7:25 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:25:07 -0400

After recent changes pretty much anyone can be a grunt. Not everyone can be an operator. Maybe if Benning installed an actual selection and screening process you could consider yourself elite (30th AG doesn't count). If you want respect, hang your blue cord on your rear view mirror and get your cross rifles tattooed on your arm below your rank like a real man.

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Apr 4 at 2017 12:55 PM

Sgt Joseph Baker — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 12:55:04 -0400

While you may be right about the physical and emotional rigors of combat I disagree about the notion of a warrior class, as we already have Marines. But what is not recognized is the mental and academic rigor that many 'Support' people go through on top of the same physical demands during training. Take the wing Marines for example: we had to go through Marine boot camp which is undoubtedly the toughest basic training, but it doesn't end there. Then we join our Navy comrades in some of the most demanding technical training. Then we serve a longer enlistment which increases your odds of serving during a major conflict. During such conflict you may be asked to take an infantry role in protecting your forward operating base. In Gulf War 1, more of our people died serving support roles than in infantry when an Iraqi missile hit a barracks. Many support people came back with Gulf War Syndrome. How about the thousands of sailors who were killed serving in support roles in our fleets during WWs 1 and 2? The notion that you are safe in support roles, that you won"t be called to face the danger simply is not true. We POGs appreciate that grunts have it tough, with fewer creature comforts, but it is a slap in the face to not acknowledge that we make sure our grunts get what help they need, and often face danger in doing so. That is why we have one title in the Corps, Marine, and we all earn it the same way.

Response by SFC Thomas Butler made Apr 13 at 2017 6:52 PM

SFC Thomas Butler — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:52:32 -0400

Wow! The question posed is so stupid that I don't think this thread is ever going to end.

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Apr 13 at 2017 7:25 PM

Sgt Joseph Baker — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:25:42 -0400

Hey, I assume you graduated high school so take of the Letterman's Jacket.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 12:44 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 00:44:40 -0400

Not a class... but definitely a culture. You can not socially stratify a true warrior and that was the mistake of the Japanese Samurai culture. Being a warrior entails more than a gung-ho attitude or belonging to a particular branch. We are long overdue in understanding what being a warrior truly is. Good luck to us Americans with realizing that at the proper time.

Response by CPL Ralph Moschler made Jul 26 at 2017 1:47 AM

CPL Ralph Moschler — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 01:47:26 -0400

Yes , I was army , but you have to love the marines every body infantry and everybody fights

Response by LCpl Kim Kroeger made Jul 26 at 2017 8:25 PM

LCpl Kim Kroeger — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 20:25:59 -0400

I saw this post and kind of understand but at the same time I don't. As a Marine and a combat one to boot, if it wasn't for all my fellow servicemen all working each and every position my ass wouldn't have made it back from Nam. I remember each branch and each ones efforts while in Khe Sanh and in Quang Tri by Dong Ha. Marines, Navy, Air Forces, Sea Bees, and Army were all around me and had input every step of the way. Even the clerks back stateside doing paperwork for the new recruits who were going to replace each one of us. We are all part of the Team and I respect each and every position.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 6:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 18:08:58 -0400

As an 11B with over 17 years in I didn't join the Army or chose the Infantry to stand out, get recognition, more pay or anything else. I'm a country boy who like to shoot any and all things. I lettered in 5 different sports. I enjoy the life and if you wanted a pat on the ass or whatever you are looking for ask your mom and your dad. It's an all volunteer military; nobody made you be Infantry you chose your MOS and quite frankly if you need someone to tell you that you stand out or are doing a great job you probably aren't. Stop worrying about recognition and awards, tabs, and badges, and push to be better, learn to coach, mentor, and lead. The old Army saying BE KNOW AND DO.

Response by 1stSgt Mack Housman made Sep 13 at 2017 10:38 AM

1stSgt Mack Housman — Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:38:28 -0400

One word for you my friend and fellow veteran..."Ridiculous!"

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2017 1:15 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:15:55 -0400

We are all Warriors. Thinking that you are superior to others because of you MOS is foolish, ignorant and the initial point of failure. One team one fight.

Response by SPC Cody Ward made Oct 17 at 2017 7:32 PM

SPC Cody Ward — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 19:32:46 -0400

I'm going to have to disagree....... especially given the standards required to be an infantryman, our standards are the exact same as everyone else's army wide. Yes there are unit SOP's, but those (in my experience at least) are rarely enforced if the soldier isn't a total shitbag. I think the warrior class you're referring to is called special forces.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2017 9:15 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:15:06 -0400

I learned once from one of my peers that a true leader will care for the growth and well being of the others as well despite of their rank or time in service. I would implement important courses that prepare them for the future when they have to claim their benefits. A lot of soldiers leave the military and never know they have so many benefits to go for, I say this because I see so many homeless veterans that don't know their tools to get all their entitlements, No one told me what to do I had to research years after I left the military to find my rights.

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 4 at 2018 10:34 AM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 10:34:32 -0500

I just came here to measure my dick, but I can see I was beat to it by literally everyone...

Response by SGT Gregory Yelland made Jan 4 at 2018 11:10 AM

SGT Gregory Yelland — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 11:10:24 -0500

After reading the comments, I came to recognize you were 'stirring the hornet's nest", especially by your personalization of the comment with the 'I believe.." My personal response is: Those who take the oath to serve and follow their oath until they no longer can due to End of Service (Medical, Age, completion of contract, or Death) ARE the "Warrior Class". Each part of this class is just as important as ANY other aspect in consideration of the Mission Objective. No matter how gung-ho of a He-Man warrior you are: you still need a target, transport to it, (and all the support for that transport), Tools of your trade - (Weapon, ammo, etc.), support while taking the target (which may be delivered from Air, Ground, or Naval forces which also need the support of coordination to be where you need them), and when the job is done: the ride home.
Let's not forget the other Heroes of our military family - those at home that wait for our hopeful return - Our wives and children.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 4 at 2018 11:44 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 11:44:23 -0500

two inches of tears in the Pentagon from Pogs whining all over the Pentagon.

Response by SGT Jesse Watson made Jan 7 at 2018 11:47 AM

SGT Jesse Watson — Sun, 07 Jan 2018 11:47:00 -0500

NO...Combat Arms should not be treated in a "higher regard"...do you have any idea how many non-combat arms soldiers it takes to keep one infantryman trained, equipped & fed? last I checked it was about a 12 to 1 ratio

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 7:13 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2018 07:13:55 -0500

I hear ya. No other branch wears a cord, the blue disks, or is authorized to earn a CIB. No badge goes above a CIB/EIB. I think respect is given.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 29 at 2018 10:54 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 22:54:01 -0400

I thought we were the Warrior Caste? Of course when you are surrounded by Bean Counters it seems they are what the Army is about.

Response by PFC Robert Hawn made Aug 8 at 2018 8:56 PM

PFC Robert Hawn — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 20:56:23 -0400

Respect is earned and not just given...Infantry has the Blue Cord, Airborne Maroon Beret, Ranger Tan Beret and SPECOPS Green Berets...Those identify Infantry...Also included in that is the CIB and EIB...Infantry is identified enough without having to go overboard...And a true warrior is a quiet one

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2018 10:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:24:32 -0400

Hahahahaha I thought we already had one SFC Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2018 10:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:49:47 -0400

I think those that work in jobs that seek contact with the enemy should be recognized, but as other respondents have stated, there already exist a number means to do so. From awards for valor and various symbols of service earned by going into combat or deployments, to peacetime recognition for volunteering for combat leadership courses, there is recognition. One thing that I think would definitely be good, if it does not currently exist, is a way for such Soldiers to complete a college degree or the majority thereof online while they are active duty so that if they choose not to stay in for a career, they will have an easier transition to the corporate world after. But yes, I hold those that volunteer to close with the enemy in a special regard. I also hold all the other Soldiers in high regard.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Jan 19 at 2020 11:54 AM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:54:04 -0500

I'll keep this simple without turning the subject into a rant. The military already has a Warrior Class. Every Soldier has his/her place. No one at the top can do its job without the security and support of everyone. Operational status is a goal that relies on a selection process. Every school in the Army has a selection process. It all boils down to how bad you want it and how far you are willing to go. Every Soldier is a member of the Warrior Class, all have different jobs to do.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2020 10:38 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:38:34 -0500

Send them to Parris Island before BCT/AIT - team building the ole fashioned way. Out of survival.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Feb 23 at 2020 3:23 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 15:23:03 -0500

You are trolling, right? The prior responses have been a good read and a good education for any young soldier who is wondering how the army really works, so there are benefits to your trolling. When I was a young airborne infantry platoon leader and company XO I use to think, "those guys" up there are a bunch of idiots still fighting the last war (Vietnam). When I was an aviation assault company commander I use to think, we really need to be doing things my way. When I was an aviation attack battalion XO, I finally saw the big picture, particularly how it all fits together in a corps combined arms operation. All the pieces fit together well and it really is a "well oiled machine". There is no room in the "well oiled machine" for one part to say it is more important than another part. Even the financial clerks make the machine run smooth from way back in the rear.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 23 at 2020 4:08 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 16:08:59 -0500

Crazy! How will the support soldiers feel when combat arms soldiers act like gods and badasses who demand more respect?

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Mar 7 at 2020 1:02 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sat, 07 Mar 2020 13:02:02 -0500

You a GD E7 in USArmy and you asking a dumbass question like this
Pull your huggies up and grow a pair, the USArmy is a team, that's the only way it works. Don't need no more prima dona's than we already have!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2020 9:15 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:15:20 -0400

First off. There is no Combat Arms anymore. It has been gone for a while.
Second, this is ridiculous. It is pathetic of an Infantryman to believe they are better or should be viewed as better or more important than anyone else.
Infantry = child soldier. The least specialized of any MOS. If anything it should be reversed. The support should be held higher than the Operations Division.
NOTHING happens without support. A light infantry squad can last what maybe a week on their own, but then they need food, water, and ammo. Where does that come from? 1SG doesnt just show up with it.

It's called being a quiet professional, just do your job and the others will do theirs. Theres a handful of Army values that can be brought up here, but I'm sure everyone already knew that and they slipped minds before this thread was started.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2020 6:58 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:58:16 -0400

You’re A funny dude!
Dismounted maneuver usually doesn’t make it very high on the HPTL.
You are the tip of the spear until you have to call for fire, and then you are not.
You are the tip of the spear until you call for air support, and then you are not.
You are the tip of the spear right behind route clearance.
Incidentally, all those “non-warriors” that are the tip you the spear when you need help and don’t deserve your respect,... usually higher on that list.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 12 at 2020 7:09 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:09:21 -0400

I think the Infantry units are well respected, at least in the Marine Corps, they do the heavy lifting and everyone knows it. But everyone plays their part, the Grunts are better protected with artillery, air support etc, everyone who’s not in the 03 field supports those guys to the best of our ability to help them be as successful as possible. I’m post Nam, so guys at the bases, fire bases, air bases surely had to know how to handle a weapon, and I’m sure they’re a part of the reactionary force with a pre appointed fighting position. Am I wrong to assume a FOB in Afghanistan is the same?

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made Jul 13 at 2020 1:06 PM

SPC Rob Lewis — Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:06:50 -0400

I would have to say that high speed operators are all ready being given special treatment. Faster promotions, access to schools and gear. With the GWOT on going there are no battle fronts, everone in country is a target and they all are expected to perform regardless of job.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Sep 20 at 2020 5:51 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 17:51:26 -0400

They Did! It's called Combat Arms!

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Oct 5 at 2020 12:59 PM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 12:59:55 -0400

Well, I think that's what the Army calls them, a combat armed unit. We are the one in the trench, but we will not be able to stay in the trench without combat support and service support units.

Service support units' job you will never see. It takes the real dedication to actually do their job and get us the personnel we need, get promotion for our deserving troops, the correct number of paychecks in our bank account on time, food and supplies for our sustenance. In major command, they have to give our commanding general the right numbers of what he has and needs.

Combat support units are your besties when you are in combat, dropping shells when and where you need it, building bridges and stronger defense position-- unless you want to get the E-tool and start digging. Trust me it takes a lot of discipline to build or doing other sh** while being shot at. (May not recently, but... )

They can sit in the office and drinking fresh coffee all they want as long as they do their jobs right, I have no complaints. For me, I would have preferred an outpost as my office, my pen is 5.56 ball full metal jacket, and drinking instant coffee package in the MRE's made 10 years ago any day. Sh** never gets old, unfortunately, I cannot say the same about myself. I'm getting too old for this sh**.

By the way, in the picture, who is looking up?

Response by SMSgt Billy Cesarano made Oct 25 at 2020 1:56 PM

SMSgt Billy Cesarano — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:56:32 -0400

I get where you're coming from. Could have been worded better though. An in-the-trenches Infantry career is short lived. Like the Marines, it's a 5 yr career model, maybe a bit longer for 11B these days. The body takes a great toll if you are actively participating on a daily basis. It's one of the reasons, turnover, you move up the ranks faster as an infantryman. Most come from rough backgrounds and active childhoods in rough sports that already left a mark on their bodies. Kinda "born for it" if you will. I had many D.I.'s from NAM who struggled everyday to meet the requirements trying to get in 20. Shot up, shrapnel laden bodies with worn out joints and organs leading 5 mile runs every morning just trying to make it to 38 or 40 yr old and retire. And they had the good jobs. They survived and knew they would, or could. Others thrust into 11B roles during the draft who weren't of that caliber rarely made it out. Living in the swamp and dirt, 25 mile forced marches with 100 lb of gear, weapons and ammo strapped to you, napping on rocks, blisters that have blisters birthing blisters, etc. If you had rank, you may have rode in a vehicle or were one of the select few that drove. We did it and complained little and never about our pain. We complained about not having support, supply shortages of clothing, boots and gear, hot rations that never showed up, mail runs that never happened. We went 35 days non-stop once with no break for a simple bath. These things that we undertook willingly because the enemy did. Respect for the punishing pace and toll on our body is what I think you mean to convey, like we do for competitive athletes. I know these things are what you mean that no one else sees. Our comrades in arms that are oblivious to it, if they weren't a part of it, such as the medics. The respect you seek is recognition of these extreme sacrifices separate and apart from the everyday non-front line combatant and non-combatant military forces. I get it, and I'll tell you that as in these posts below, very few do, even those only one level removed. They didn't when I was a grunt and they don't now, stop beating yourself up over it. It's those that know that matter. For me, I was breaking down after 4 years. Seeing it coming, I went ANG in other MOS's. Nothing as hard as 11B but not much better. Then finally, I went Air Force until I recently was able to retire at 60. My body is broken, sure enough. Most all my battle buddies from that time are gone now too, mostly of complications and sacrifices from those days. The toll it took on them was overwhelming. I struggle each workday to just move my degenerating bones out of bed in the mornings, but I still find the will to do it. Staying in til 60 helped me with the discipline I needed to keep going. Something my buddies lost. Sure, we recognize the contrast but it was our choice to do what others can't. The respect you seek will only come from others who traveled that road.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 25 at 2021 12:54 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:54:44 -0400

I don't agree. Nobody is more important than another due to their MOS. Kinetic operations alone do not win battles and wars.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2021 1:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:26:30 -0400

Well you just need to climb down off your high horse. This is a Team thing and you can't do your job without the rest of us doing our job. So knock that chip off your shoulder.

Response by SMSgt Kevin Bishop made Jul 19 at 2022 4:21 PM

SMSgt Kevin Bishop — Tue, 19 Jul 2022 16:21:24 -0400

Just try to estimate how long you would last with the gear, weapons and ammo you purchased out of your own funds down at the local Bass Pro Shop and by the way pick up the groceries you will need down at the Safeway as you walk to the the battle. Good luck when you get to the water.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 24 at 2022 2:20 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:20:13 -0400

I am stunned, and not in a good way.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Oct 24 at 2022 4:18 PM

CPL Sheila Lewis — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 16:18:45 -0400

no.

Response by CPT Earl George made Oct 24 at 2022 10:47 PM

CPT Earl George — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 22:47:16 -0400

No soldier should be put higher than any other soldier. All soldiers have jobs to do and the mission expects everyone to do his or her job. The infantry have to be fed and equipped in order to fight. Finally, if the S _ _ _ hits the fan, everyone is an infantryman.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2022 9:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 09:49:47 -0400

Why are stupid threads like this always coming back up.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Leake made Oct 25 at 2022 8:16 PM

SSG Jeffrey Leake — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 20:16:00 -0400

I joined the infantry because I wanted to. I didn't and don't expect to be treated any different then any other Joe. I'm no better then anyone else. We chose to be grunts. No one MOS should be treated better or put above another. I didn't join for ribbons, medals, or accolades. I joined to serve my country.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Feb 23 at 2023 1:36 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 23 Feb 2023 13:36:04 -0500

Frack, what they are putting in Wheaties now adays. Sorry to disappoint you, but your thoughts don't sway me one bit, nor should they sway anyone. First, At best your argument is weak and shows no facts. Second, neither those high-speed devices that you use have to be maintained by someone who isn't part of your warrior elite class system, nor is the aircraft you flew on, or the pay system. I dare some of those systems take more schooling, and hands on experience then being Super Secret Double Nought Spy (Ode to Jethro Bodine for that one). Lastly, history, Infantry has not always done the greatest things on the battlefield. You have done some outstanding things, and you have had some FUBAR moments as well. As I am working on a Civil War Medal of Honor project, I have gotten to read about Band Members who stepped up when others failed, Artillery Units that stayed with their guns when the Infantry retreated, and other events that did not always show the Infantry in the best of light.
This has to come into play if you are trying to make your case. Also, you have to look at some of the black marks of this nation and of the Army in particular that would most definitely not put you in an elite status of any kind: i.e. The Bonus Army event (Units involved were the 12th Calvary Regiment, and the 3rd Infantry Regiment), The Indian Wars (too many units to list here). How many infantry units have lineage to their Confederate Past? Hard to Claim being elite when your ancestors participated in some very dark things. Be happy you get your Infantry Badge, blue cord and blue disks, hell I might even go for platform shoes left over from the 1970's so you can feel taller. But treat you differently? ROFLMAO, would it mean I get to treat you differently when you get the track stuck, or blow the motor, or jack up some piece of equipment from doing something incredibly "special?"

Response by CSM Vern Pratt made Feb 24 at 2023 3:35 PM

CSM Vern Pratt — Fri, 24 Feb 2023 15:35:39 -0500

So you say you are not putting down Soldiers not of the combat arms ranks yet you want to set combat arms as an elite class? The Army cannot function effectively as a caste organization and in case you haven't noticed 21st century warfare is no longer fought only in areas forward of the line of troops. The Marines understand that every Marine is a war fighter and expect those Marines not of the combat arms classification to put aside their specific task and step into the role of combat. There will always be a need for infantry, calvary, and artillery, they are the forces that take battle into the enemies territories but without those combat support and combat service support combat arms are just paper soldiers.

Be a Soldier, set a high standard of conduct and comraderie for all Soldiers to emulate.