Should the Military make it mandatory to pull over and salute the flags at 0600 and 1700?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:03:31 -0400

When I first enlisted a soldier would pull his/her vehicle over, step out and salute the flag. Six years later, I've noticed that no one does this anymore. I've also seen Soldiers of all ranks either dart to their car or garage. Sometimes they even wait until after it has finished before stepping out of the buildings. What are your thoughts on this?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 10:05 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:05:50 -0400

The jurisdiction/decision lies with the post Commander.  At some places, the MPs actually stop/block traffic until after the flag is raised/lowered.  It's an old tradition but just like many of our old traditions, it has come down to post policy on whether or not it is enforced or not.

Response by 1SG Alan Bailey made Mar 17 at 2014 11:26 AM

1SG Alan Bailey — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 11:26:26 -0400

Well, he at "THE GREAT PLACE" it is the III Corp standard the you stand at the position of attention at 0630 and 1700 for the flag if your indoors and the post puts out traffic stops at all major intersections and they sut down the gates till the flag up or down. I have always thought that it was the standard to stop your car and get out for the flag. I agree 100% that it be manditory Army wide, not just for Soldiers but DoD employees also.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 3:39 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 15:39:56 -0400

Great question SGT Myers.<div> </div><div>First, no one should have to make such a rule. Saluting the flag is a privilege afforded only to us.</div><div> </div><div>EDIT: Do police officers also salute the flag? I've never seen it, but a quick check suggested they might.</div><div> </div><div>Second, I think that the avoidance mentality might stem primarily from people being uncertain of the standard. Knowing the music and what it means is a perishable skill that simply isn't being imparted on a DOD-wide scale. It, like so many simple standards, has fallen by the side.</div>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 3:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Mar 2014 15:42:04 -0400

I thought it was already. I guess it just matters where you are

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Mar 18 at 2014 9:16 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Tue, 18 Mar 2014 21:16:48 -0400

Unless things have gone way downhill since I retired, Navy wide we observe Colors at 0800 and Sunset in port and on bases.  Personnel on foot are expected to come to attention, face the flag or music if they cannot see the flag and salute if in uniform, or come to attention if in civilian attire.  Veterans of course may salute.  Personnel in motor vehicles are expected to stop and assume a position of seated attention, but not dismount for safety reasons.<div> </div><div>Once Colors begins no one leaves or enters any buildings.  Anyone leaving a building would of course come to attention and render Honors.  Anyone observed running into a building after Colors begins would face the Wrath of a PO'd Sailor and never make the same mistake again. <div> </div><div>Ships in port also observe Colors at the same times.  Ships underway display the Flag 24/7.  On Sundays all Ships display Battle Colors.</div></div>

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 19 at 2014 12:28 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 00:28:53 -0400

Forced respect isn't respect.  We need to do a better job in motivating folks to honor these things instead of forcing them to.  Educate....motivate.

Response by LTJG Robert M. made Mar 20 at 2014 10:10 AM

LTJG Robert M. — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:10:01 -0400

<div id="collapsed_content_77620">
I thought it was already. I guess it just matters who you are, those who honor & respect our flag already do this.  USCG observes Colors at 0800 and Sunset in port and on bases, ships moored in port or at anchor.  Ships underway display the Flag 24/7.</div>

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 10:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:21:29 -0400

At Ft Hood, it is still a requirement all vehicles must stop and all soldiers must exit and salute the flag. I think that all installations should be doing this.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 10:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:21:31 -0400

hold formations at these times and don't release soldier from the duty day till they have rendered a salute to the flag. It a simple and easy fix. I pull over and render my salute and make my wife get out of the car if I am on post when the flag lowers for the day. I hate seeing soldier hiding at the PX or shoppette inside the doorway waiting for the flag to lower cause they are lazy and don't respect the flag of the country the serve and live.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 10:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:31:56 -0400

Question: What about foreign spouses? male or female. Should they have to salute a flag they don't hold as their own?

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 20 at 2014 11:21 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 11:21:12 -0400

Here is my questions! First off why is it such a bother to stop and get out of the car and due retreat and salute? You would counsel your private for not saluting an officer so why then are we crying over stopping and rendering something as simple as a hand salute. It is honoring the Country, and the people that have die for this Country and the Flag. In the US code it say that the FLAG is considered an living breathing thing. 2) Why is this even being dicussed? If we as Nco's teach our soldiers the mondane stuff day in and day our and everytime we go to the field teach the same stuff and it become muscle memory. Why can't we also sit them down on the break in between and say alright lets discuss the issue of the flag and rendering the proper respect and honors it is due! Teach them what it stands for, If they still have the I don't care attitude then thats when it becomes because I said so, thing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 11:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 11:50:50 -0400

They make it mandatory on Shaw AFB, the only thing is you don't get out of your car. The first time I got out of my car to salute (normal for a Soldier) the AF Security Forces yelled at me to get back in my car. They don't get out and salute just pull over. Other than that if I am out and about I salute if I am in uniform or stand at attention if I am not. My son even does it in the housing area. Him and I were playing basketball and when retreat went off we both immediatly stopped, then once the National Anthem started (AF Base standard) we went to attention and put our hand over our hearts. My son is 13 and did this. Proud of that boy

Response by SSG William Harant made Mar 20 at 2014 6:27 PM

SSG William Harant — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 18:27:33 -0400

Even out here in Montana on a National Guard post (Fort Harrison) we are required to pull over, get out and render honors. There is a state park about a mile from post. When the bugle blows on post military personnel and veterans their also stop what they are doing and "face the music." We may get some questioning stares from the civilians, but when we explain our actions to them, they are generally impressed.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 20 at 2014 6:45 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 18:45:50 -0400

about 30 of these signs are on post at Fort Knox, KY

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2014 9:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:35:05 -0400

I believe it should be mandatory to render honors. Where I believe common sense should come into play is looking at the traffic pattern of the installation and risk to motorists who do get out and render honors. The problem would be, Is the Installation Commander willing to assume risk for accidents and injuries to those whom would exit their vehicle and render honors?

Response by MSG Jose Colon made Mar 21 at 2014 10:24 PM

MSG Jose Colon — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 22:24:32 -0400

Just my opinion. I have, just as a vast majority here, deployed several times and faced the enemy because my Nation has asked me. I love our Nation that much. It irks me when I see junior enlisted, senior enlisted, officers, and civilians disrespecting the flag that way.

It was my honor to serve my Nation, it is my honor to salute my flag.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2014 11:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 23:10:38 -0400

We still do this at Ft. Hood. Or at least most people do if the situation permits and I believe all posts should make an effort to do this. It's sad when people try to run to avoid this. Even when I'm alone in my Barracks room I step out and salute, it's only right.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2014 7:08 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 19:08:08 -0400

Both of the units I have been with still do this and if I saw this happen immediately after the flag was up or down I would confront this person and depending on there response report it to there COC

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2014 9:32 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:32:15 -0400

This is TC 3-21.5.....HOLY COW ITS A REG...LETS QUOTE IT...... c. Outdoors. Whenever and wherever the United States National Anthem, “To the
Color,” “Reveille,” or “Hail to the Chief” is played, at the first note, all dismounted
personnel in uniform and not in formation face the flag (or the music, if the flag is not in
view), stand at Attention, and render the prescribed Salute. The position of Salute is held until
the last note of the music is sounded. Military personnel not in uniform will stand at
Attention (remove headdress, if any, with the right hand), and place the right hand over the
heart. Vehicles in motion are brought to a Halt. Persons riding in a passenger car or on a
motorcycle dismount and salute. Occupants of other types of military vehicles and buses
remain in the vehicle and sit at attention; the individual in charge of each vehicle dismounts
and renders the Hand Salute. Tank and armored car commanders salute from the vehicle.
d. Indoors. When the National Anthem is played indoors, officers and enlisted
personnel stand at Attention and face the music, or the flag if one is present.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Mar 24 at 2014 9:41 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:41:32 -0400

I remember during my first tour of duty from 1979-1982 that we were trained to pull over and exit our vehicles whether military or civilian at 0600 and again at 1700 to render honors to the flag. How this tradition fell by the wayside is beyond me, but in my opinion it needs to be reinstated. Any soldier driving a car or riding a motorcycle on post who fails to pull over and render honors should be cited and be subject to non-judicial punishment for their first offense, after that I leave it up to the "experts" who work in the Judge Advocate Generals office. The flag is our national symbol and as such it deserves the utmost respect.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Mar 24 at 2014 9:57 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:57:35 -0400

Of course there were plenty of times it felt like a Nuisance but after 17 years retired I miss hearing Taps and the associated end of day beginning of day ceremonies. I always felt proud participating too. If ever you get a chance see the full twilight tattoo, Washington DC on the Elipse.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2014 6:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Mar 2014 18:58:24 -0400

If you can hear the music or see the flag it is already mandatory.

Some of us still need to learn the difference between "retreat" and "to the colors" though!

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 4 at 2014 9:00 AM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Fri, 04 Apr 2014 09:00:34 -0400

You are supposed to. Most of the time I am driving with the windows up and the radio on so I don't always hear it. When I do hear it, I pull over and salute. A Soldier shouldn't avoid saluting though. That's just wrong.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2014 12:42 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 12:42:18 -0400

I think there might be some variances by service and base / post. For example, If I was driving, I was taught to pull over, turn off the radio (if it was playing) and "sit at attention" during the national anthem as it may not be appropriate for a driver to get out of the vehicle. Additionally, those performing critical duties (or in a hazardous area) were not expected to stop what they were doing to render appropriate courtesies to the Flag due to their mission or the risk to themselves or others.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2014 2:03 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 14:03:49 -0400

i know in my unit when we hear the flag and we are in our vehicles we get out and salute, if we are in a building we immediately stop what we are doing and we stand at attention until iits over. Here in fort hood the gates close and main roads close 3 minutes before 1700 and people get out of the vehicle to salute. Personally i do not mind i am proud to serve and i see it as an honor to salute the flag when i do.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Spencer made Apr 18 at 2014 10:58 PM

SSG Jeffrey Spencer — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 22:58:29 -0400

When did it become not mandatory? It was when I was in and if you don't honor our flag and all it stands for, then you are likely in the wrong career, and even possibly the wrong country! It's called respect and Patriotism.

Response by TSgt Paul Schmidgall made Apr 19 at 2014 10:00 AM

TSgt Paul Schmidgall — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:00:40 -0400

I separated from the military many years ago, but when I was active this wasn't a question. As soon as you heard retreat sound you would stop snap to attention face the post flag and salute. Also, people would stop their cars to show their respect. It is disappointing to know that this time honored tradition is no longer being practiced.

Also, many people don't realize how much you long for the days when you were serving and would hear the national anthem and you would snap a salute to show your respect to your country and all that have gone before you.

Response by SFC Micheal Gibbens made Apr 19 at 2014 1:20 PM

SFC Micheal Gibbens — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 13:20:35 -0400

I believe these individuals are showing a lack of respect.

Response by PO1 Walter Laughlin made Apr 20 at 2014 4:39 AM

PO1 Walter Laughlin — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 04:39:45 -0400

This tradition should never have been stopped, as far as I know, it used to be part of the general orders and should still be mandatory to stop and salute regardless of whereabouts on the base! It is most definitely an honor to stop and salute the flag when it is being raised or lowered, this is not only a tradition. It is an honor!

Response by PO1 Walter Laughlin made Apr 20 at 2014 4:40 AM

PO1 Walter Laughlin — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 04:40:35 -0400

Response by SPC John Hlavaty made Apr 21 at 2014 1:33 AM

SPC John Hlavaty — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 01:33:27 -0400

unless I misunderstand the regs. It is mandatory to stop your vehicle, get out and salute the flag @ 0600 & 1700. It was required when I served and it was/is required during my sons time in. The problem for the most part is disrespect, disrespect for the flag,uniform,military history,Country, Constitution and mainly disrespect for themselves. If a child is raised without learning about respect from parents, school, or community then they do not know of respect so therefor show no respect. If my children disrespect the flag, that so many have fought and died for, it will become a very bad day for them.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made May 6 at 2014 12:29 AM

SGT Craig Northacker — Tue, 06 May 2014 00:29:14 -0400

It was when I was in - that was an offense for which you would be punished.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Sep 7 at 2014 4:23 AM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 04:23:46 -0400

For me, Its an honor to salute the raising or lower of the flag. Ducking into a building isn't what I signed on for.

Your post clearly shows how some people feel about our Colors.

Its like the news story a while back of the base theater where the national anthem was playing before a movie. The sound cut out but the picture kept rolling. The audience sang the rest of it. There is true patriotism.