Should the military upgrade bad marijuana discharges?

A1C Chris Pointer — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:39:42 -0400

Now that marijuana has been legalized in the majority of the US and the stigma against it has changed, smoking weed is akin to smoking cigarettes, and some would argue smoking cigarettes is more harmful. I was looking at the Army DRB and they seem to be approving or changing discharges for people who were discharge solely for marijuana usage. I’m not 100% sure but I assume it’s because the narrative surrounding weed has changed.

So in your opinion should the military as a whole upgrade or edit discharges that were based solely on marijuana usage?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 3:52 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:52:04 -0400

At this time Marijuana is still considered illegal at the federal level. And it is the federal level that impacts military law and discharges. Not saying it is a bad idea, just a lot of hurdles to overcome yet.

Response by CWO4 Terrence Clark made Sep 17 at 2021 3:56 PM

CWO4 Terrence Clark — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:56:31 -0400

No. They willfully broke law and regs. The fact that states are changing their laws does not excuse that.

"Some would argue smoking cigarettes is more harmful" . Some also argue the opposite.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Sep 17 at 2021 4:06 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:06:15 -0400

On what grounds? Marijuana is still schedule 1 federally and Military members are federal employees. This is definitely a conversation that could happen if/when Marijuana is legal in the eyes of the federal government.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Sep 17 at 2021 4:09 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:09:38 -0400

No. Even if marijuana is legalized on the federal level in the future, these individuals still broke the law when they decided to get high. Alcohol is perfectly legal, but if a Soldier is caught drunk on duty they, too, will be punished.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 4:12 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:12:58 -0400

In my opinion, absolutely not! It was and still is illegal on a federal level, and honestly I hope it stays that way forever... or at the least in my life time. They were completely aware of the regs and laws when they broke them, they willingly engaged in actions knowing they were wrong.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 4:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:23:34 -0400

No… while I have mixed emotions about it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 4:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:24:42 -0400

A1C Chris Pointer "smoking weed is akin to smoking cigarettes,", Nope. akin to a couple shots of liquor maybe, depending on the potency.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Sep 17 at 2021 4:42 PM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:42:10 -0400

If that were to happen, would it not be fair to expunge the records of all persons convicted on marijuana charges?

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 4:57 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:57:43 -0400

No. It's illegal to be drunk on duty, high should make no difference. While living in CA, I was asked several times if I wanted to "smoke". My response was always, "sure, if you don't mind me working on aircraft that fly over your house." They never asked again.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 5:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:41:26 -0400

They won't unless it's federally legalized/decriminalized and even then, I doubt they will. In fact, if it's completely legalized, I bet the DoD still doesn't allow military or DoD civilians to partake in marijuana.

Should they edit discharges? When it's completely decriminalized and legal. Will they? Doubtful.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 17 at 2021 6:18 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:18:54 -0400

Absolutely not. Disobeying an order is still disobeying an order. At the time, these individuals knew that what they were doing was punishable under UCMJ, and chose to do it anyway. That's a decision they made. Decisions have consequences.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 6:49 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:49:57 -0400

No. If you know something is illegal, and you do it anyway, it is on you and you should accept the consequences for your actions.

Response by MSG Bob S made Sep 17 at 2021 7:27 PM

MSG Bob S — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 19:27:48 -0400

Akin to smoking cigarettes. You can not be that ignorant! You have e to breakdown you logic on that one. I believe you’re conflating effects and perceptions

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Sep 17 at 2021 8:19 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 20:19:43 -0400

Nope. They knew (or should have known) the rules/laws/regulations at the time of their offense. Marijuana was and still is illegal at the Federal level and all military members are subject to the restrictions imposed.

As an interesting side note....Even if marijuana is legalized at the state and/or Federal level, some employers will still prohibit the use of it. For example, I have a Commercial Driver License (CDL) and an active Paramedic license. Both require that I abstain from the use of cannabis products in order to maintain my license. Doesn't really matter to me either way as I never used and have no plans to in the future. Heck, at this point, even a six-pack of alcoholic beverage lasts me the better part of an entire calendar year.

Response by MCPO Hilary Kunz made Sep 17 at 2021 8:22 PM

MCPO Hilary Kunz — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 20:22:24 -0400

I’m going to have to go with the, you knew the rules and broke them. That’s how I didn’t get busted, followed the rules as best I could, why would others get a pass afterwards?

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Sep 17 at 2021 8:34 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 20:34:40 -0400

Absolutely NOT.
At the time that the discharge was given it was a against the law everywhere.
The Discharge and the crime that made it necessary was not the Marijuana.
It was the disobedience to what the Army said to do. The Army says Don't smoke dope. Those individuals Smoked Dope...The Army said Don't they did it because they did not care what the Army wanted. So no, do not upgrade anything, they disregarded Army regulations and their responsibility to the Army, their units, their families and everything else in favor of getting high.
They do not deserve the consideration of a second thought.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2021 9:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 21:07:59 -0400

The majority of states have decriminalized it. They can’t make it legal and the military is beholden to that federal law. While I think it should be as legal as alcohol, until it is there’s nothing to change. If they legalize it then they’ll have to reevaluate those discharges.

Response by SFC James Cameron made Sep 17 at 2021 9:28 PM

SFC James Cameron — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 21:28:47 -0400

As long as it’s a Schedule 1 controlled substance Federally whatever character of discharge will likely stand firm.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Sep 17 at 2021 9:49 PM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 21:49:07 -0400

I've never known cigarettes to impair a person so badly they kill someone on the road. Someone high on weed killed my wife when he T-boned her car in an intersection. That being said I do not want to hear how harmless weed is.

Response by SSG Frank McQuiggan made Sep 18 at 2021 6:14 AM

SSG Frank McQuiggan — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 06:14:31 -0400

I would say no because it was a crime then and it's still against federal law. Why go back and tell someone that what they did back years ago is now ok. It was against the law and they paid the price. Live with the choices you make

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Sep 18 at 2021 10:05 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 10:05:24 -0400

He is going to remove his tonsils, the hard way

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Sep 18 at 2021 10:51 AM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 10:51:30 -0400

No. If nothing else it demonstrates that a person will put their own wants and desires above the rules and regulations in place. No place for that in military life.

Response by PO1 James Akins made Sep 18 at 2021 5:25 PM

PO1 James Akins — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 17:25:05 -0400

Question, why is it we keep trying to change the past due to future changes such as legalizing marijuana for example. I think this is part of the cancel culture movement to erase events in the past to make them right by todays standards. I have never done illegal drugs of any kind, but knew of people that did they knew if they got caught would get into trouble but did it anyway. I also know knowing the risk of getting caught was making them paranoid and this combined with the daily stress of military life made them dangerous because they could get seriously hurt, hurt someone else or damage to military property. I think that you were under the "UCMJ" while serving in the military and are subject to its laws and penalties if you were smoking marijuana and got caught you would be punished accordingly. I ets stop trying to correct wrongs made in the past but learn from them and move on to a better tomorrow.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Sep 18 at 2021 9:27 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 21:27:36 -0400

I think so. With an apology for drafting and sending the best of our youth to save the Frogs.
A culture that is agrarian and shares everything does not need Capitalism and our way of life was not at risk.
I do not condone being impaired on active duty. But the BS that was Vietnam reminds me of the BS in Afghanistan. Endless war.
G-d Bless our Vietnam veterans for the Bull shit they had to endure in country and coming home.
Give every swinging ***k a f***ing break.
Over and out.

Response by LCpl Odell Taylor made Sep 20 at 2021 12:33 AM

LCpl Odell Taylor — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 00:33:56 -0400

If I was to reveal where I was born, reared, and still yet reside many of those reading this would find the following statement difficult, if not impossible, to believe. I had never seen marijuana until I was 29 years of age and did not experience it until age 30. I celebrated my 78th birthday in July 2021.

Even though this state has declared it legal for private doctors to prescribe, because of the existing FEDERAL STATUTES in place it is viewed by the DOJ and Federal Agents as a controlled substance and is ILLEGAL. Therefore the VA is forbidden by LAW to prescribe it in its natural form for my pain and sleep disorder.

With that being said and as I have previously mentioned, as far as the US Government is concerned it is ILLEGAL now as it was when the occurrences being discussed took place. The climate of public opinion and its more or less acceptance of marijuana does not alter nor negate that FACT! IF one does not approve of the LAW it is up to that individual to attempt to have that STATUTE overturned! As much as I wish I had the power and authority to rescind those types of discharges I have to agree with the many others that state those using knew the consequences.

I was fortunate that I was in and out before Vietnam ever got 'hot'. But, if I had served in combat with ANYONE that had such little regard for his safety and wellbeing as well as the rest of the troops I either would have reported them, requested a transfer in order to not be put in any more danger than I already was, or while on patrol and engaged with the enemy merely saw to it they didn't make it back to the FireBase! After all, I use it to diminish the pain, help me SLEEP, and cannot party while smoking it!! I would add: As far as I can remember I have NEVER snitched nor reported ANYONE for ANYTHING!

Have A Nice Day...Molon Labe...Semper Fi

Response by COL William Oseles made Sep 22 at 2021 6:39 PM

COL William Oseles — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:39:06 -0400

Irrelevant that states have legalized marijuana.
Congress has not updated the UCMJ and until THAT IS DONE IS IS still A FEDERAL CRIME.
In fact it is STILL a Federal crime no matter what the States do.

Response by SPC Matthew Dresner made Sep 22 at 2021 10:23 PM

SPC Matthew Dresner — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 22:23:39 -0400

I think they should not receive a level of discharge that will affect their VA benefits. A Bad Conduct discharge is too strict unless their drug use caused physical harm or destruction of property. Failing a piss test should not earn someone a bad conduct discharge. Just because someone has pot in their system does not necessarily make them a bad soldier. The only reason many service members get released for smoking pot is because they peed in a bottle. If senior NCOs and flag officers shake their head because they can't believe one of their best troops came up hot, that tells you some can handle it responsibly, some cannot. Just like other substances. I agree that until the fed reschedules pot, discharges should not be changed. It is violation of federal law, but doesn't deserve a discharge reserved for service members who truly exhibit bad conduct. Especially since most of these discharges are junior enlisted serving their first term.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2021 10:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:18:43 -0400

Depends. If someone was caught high on duty, with a weapon, operating a vehicle, or other equipment, then no. An otherwise good Soldier who just pissed hot? Yes. Massive waste of money and talent discharging good Soldiers for weed while retaining mediocre, underperforming and toxic Soldiers. My sympathy is not unlimited because it’s still federally illegal, and it’s stupid to risk your career for weed. Current federal laws on weed are outdated, stupid, and need to be updated. I wish I could try weed, but I’m willing to wait until either I retire or it’s no longer prohibited by the DOD.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 24 at 2021 8:26 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 20:26:33 -0400

No. Simply no, you know it’s illegal in the military and we’re not civilians, and a misdemeanor here in the outside world isn’t applicable to the military and UCMJ I’d suppose. Sorry the cigarette thing doesn’t wash, nor does any comparison to say Jack Daniels. It’s still federally illegal although obviously some states have legalized it, like Ca, Wa etc. I say this knowing full well I did wrong back in the day, but I was only drug tested like day 1-2 at Parris Island and never again.

Response by PO2 Bill Snyder made Dec 8 at 2021 3:10 PM

PO2 Bill Snyder — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 15:10:53 -0500

No, the rules at the time are what matter.

Response by Cpl Edward Allen made Dec 11 at 2021 11:39 AM

Cpl Edward Allen — Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:39:58 -0500

I'm not one for changing the past just because the present has changed. For instance, let's suppose that someone broke into your home at night, and under your states Castle Doctrine you shot and killed the armed intruder. All legal and you complied 100% with the current law. Five years pass and under new government your state now has NO Castle Doctrine. Is it right for the state to now come down on you for 2nd degree homicide for shooting the armed intruder?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2022 4:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2022 16:40:09 -0400

Yes

Response by SCPO Lloyd Sikes made Sep 26 at 2022 1:04 PM

SCPO Lloyd Sikes — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:04:29 -0400

The stigma still exists among a lot of old timers, I am 82, so you break the law-pay the price. Since no other law I know of is retro, this should not start a procedure of forgiveness.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Sep 26 at 2022 2:57 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:57:16 -0400

IMO, it is still illegal on the Federal level & as a military member, you’re part of the Federal government. Maybe the penalties shouldn’t be as harsh as they were but it’s still not legal in all the states.
What if you have a joint, or a vape, on you when overseas & you go off base? You’re still subject to the laws of your host country, just ask Brittney Griner.
Maybe change any BCDs with an R4 code to a General or Administrative. But I wouldn’t change the code.