Should the Navy bring back beards?

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:38:31 -0400

Beards were allowed for ALL Sailors until 1981 when CNO Adm. Hayward banned beards for anyone under E4. In 1984, CNO Adm. Watkins banned beards under the impression that Sailors would not be able to get a proper gas mask seal. However, Secretary John Lehman said that it was simply due to aesthetics. Lehman said that master chiefs complained that beards made the Navy look un-uniform.

Response by SGT David T. made Jun 23 at 2016 12:39 PM

SGT David T. — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:39:41 -0400

If the Navy can, then the other services should be able to as well.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 12:45 PM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:45:44 -0400

I'm on the fence about this one. I do think that a clean shaven face looks sharper and promotes uniformity. It also keeps younger Sailors in line, as shaving every day reminds them that they are indeed a part of something larger than themselves, and sacrifice - doing something they may dread, is a part of everyday life.

However, at a certain rank/paygrade, I can definitely understand how beards could be a privilege. You cannot argue that a well kept beard can definitely reenforce a man's authority. A sharp beard can look just as professional as a clean shaven face. With stipulation, I could get on board with allowing beards.

*Note, I understand no-shave chits can be bought through the MWR while underway - however, this is not what this question is pertaining to.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 1:08 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:08:47 -0400

No. Military uniformity must be upheld Shaving is not a sacrifice.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 1:11 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:11:54 -0400

Can I transfer to the Navy if you bring back beards?

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 23 at 2016 1:18 PM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:18:24 -0400

If the Navy, and military in general, is granting religious waivers for those that require beards, I think EVERYONE should be allowed to grow one. After all, if we're discussing uniformity, why is someone considered special because of their religion?

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 1:18 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:18:29 -0400

No, one of the main reasons they stopped this was not listed. The Navy had discovered that beards were causing problems with Damage control, as in problems with seals on mask and they found the same issues with Gas mask you can not get a proper seal on the mask. I am a ground Disaster recovery Navy CBR guy and will tell you that having over grown facial hair will cause a improper seal in mask and can cause death. This is what happens when people want to look at the past and go back to the way, we use to do it, with out getting the hole site picture and understanding why they changed rules.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 2:04 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:04:02 -0400

As long as the beard is neat and tidy and conforms to uniform standards. It's the person behind the beard who is important.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 4:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:42:34 -0400

Yaaasss!

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 23 at 2016 5:00 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:00:26 -0400

Even though every time I tried I couldn't grow one. I didn't have a problem with my Shipmates that did have one. One of those changes that came about in about 1980 with the Urinalysis and PT.

Response by PO3 Sandra Gomke made Jun 23 at 2016 6:27 PM

PO3 Sandra Gomke — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 18:27:04 -0400

I was in the Navy when this came about. There was much discussion over gas mask fittings, etc. Now I'm probably going to get in trouble when I say this (especially since my Marine husband looks great in a beard) but I like the clean look of a shaved face over a military uniform. Neat haircut, females with hair up or cut short. Sorry, guys!!

Response by COL Sam Russell made Jun 23 at 2016 7:31 PM

COL Sam Russell — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:31:57 -0400

Yes, and the Army should bring back mutton chops.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2016 2:14 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:14:01 -0400

For the sake of parity, so long as the women are allowed to wear them as well.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jun 24 at 2016 10:50 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:50:35 -0400

I can just see POs trying to enforce the beard and moustache regulations on a daily basis along with everything else. "SN Snark, that hair on your neck is 1/4" to long, get it taken care of asap."

Response by CPT Drew Allen made Jun 24 at 2016 9:25 PM

CPT Drew Allen — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:25:09 -0400

It inspires confidence (in the wearer). If I had to ride around on the seas, I'd want a captain who looked like blackbeard.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 10:22 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 10:22:49 -0400

I would love for the US Navy to adopt the Royal Navy's policy on facial hair.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 3:07 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 15:07:34 -0400

This could only be allowed on shore duty. The more immediate threat for a shipboard Sailor is not CBR but firefighting. The air packs we use(basically the same as civilian fire fighters) maintain positive pressure inside the mask. Any leaks in the seal of the mask causes the regulator to free flow. This could cause your bottle of air designed to last ~45min. to last only 10 min.

Response by SN Peter Stella made Jul 5 at 2016 7:59 AM

SN Peter Stella — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 07:59:43 -0400

I think we should bring back beards. We had an exchange Aussie in my squadron HS-10 on NASNI the guy wore shorts and had a beard.

Response by CPO David Sharp made Jul 5 at 2016 12:40 PM

CPO David Sharp — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 12:40:06 -0400

Not if you want a seal on a gas mask and survive a CBR environment. Fashion will not save you, proper fitting equipment will do it everytime.

Response by PO1 Autumn Sandeen made Jul 5 at 2016 1:10 PM

PO1 Autumn Sandeen — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 13:10:21 -0400

With modern technology, if engineers couldn't design a new, well sealing mask that would provide a protective seal against chemical agents for service members with well-trimmed beards, then I'd be extremely surprised.

In the present, this is about aesthetics. The Navy could find a way to accommodate beards if it were motivated to do so. It's not motivated to do so.

Response by CPO Bill Canada made Jul 5 at 2016 2:04 PM

CPO Bill Canada — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:04:23 -0400

I never had a problem getting a gas mask seal. To this day I would dawn a MK5, OBA or Survive air pac and sit in a gas chamber or smoke house to prove it can be done with a properly trimmed beard. #/4" max length and cut along the jaw line. Those that said it could not be done had never tried it to see if it could be done.

Response by PO1 John Runningwolf made Jul 5 at 2016 4:20 PM

PO1 John Runningwolf — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 16:20:42 -0400

I firmly believe that beards have a place in the Navy! However, as I witnessed the changes in 1981, at 1st I thought it was asinine to make such a change that has been such a long standing tradition. Then thinking as one who had been in a more leadership position, I could also see the were there could be an incentive to the change. As in "What was that sailor? You said you want to grow a beard? Well you better keep your nose clean and work harder on getting promoted to an E4 so that you can grow a beard!" "Cause rank has it's privileges!!"
Now the Con side : breaking a tradition that has been in the Navy for how many years? If "the powers that be" all of a sudden decide it is ok to start to break one tradition (beards for E1-E3 personnel. Which in and of itself is self some people may think it is either a small meaningless tradition. But what if next they decide to get rid of the Marine Corp's Dress Blues uniform all together and have them wear Naval Service Dress uniforms all because someone saw that the Marine Corp's budget was part of the Dept Of The Navy's and that the Marines paycheck's said Department of the Navy on them.
Now UNDERSTAND I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO STIR UP ANY TROUBLE!!! As I fully understand that this has been a sore subject for our fellow Marines for all of these many many years! Even back when I was in the military it was a touchy subject as I had the marine carrying in my luggage! Sorry had to say it!
But seriously, No tradition no matter how small should be taken lightly! It would be the same as if in the Joint Chiefs infinite wisdom they suddenly decide to allow Ranger Green Berets and infantry to wear the rangers symbols. Now I know there would be a LOT of pissed off people!! And rightfully so! That would be the same as giving the person who handles maintenance on the aircraft pilot wings! There was a reason for each and every tradition that was started. Those who fail to remember their past, will only regret in the future making the same mistakes again. Traditions in the military are guidelines that help us not to repeat past mistakes. And care ahould be taken when trifled with.

Response by CWO3 John Kahoe made Mar 22 at 2019 10:53 PM

CWO3 John Kahoe — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:53:28 -0400

The picture above was taken in 1984 before the CNO banned beards. The day I shaved my beard I walked by my 8 year old son, who was laying on the floor watching TV. He looked up and said, "Gee, dad, you're ugly," but what did he know as he had never seen me without a beard.

Response by 1SG Joe Messier made Jul 31 at 2023 12:24 PM

1SG Joe Messier — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 12:24:13 -0400

Beards and dungarees! Circa 1970's GI Joe!
Let's keep it fact based, does it truly impact the readiness of the force? I'd love to see the statistics on how many people had to don their protective mask in a real world situation over the course of their career.
Was there an increase in body lice after port call? The numbers are so low right now and it seems like a pretty cool little perk. Why not?