Should the U.S. Army have one grooming standard (i.e. hair) for male and females?

2014-01-11T15:51:49-05:00

Should we allow well groomed beards like most Professional Armies in the world.  

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 4:20 PM

2014-01-11T16:20:07-05:00

No, the gender hairstyles are different and we should not conform ourselves into robots. I would however consider revising the grooming standards on beards for males.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 4:20 PM

2014-01-11T16:20:10-05:00

I have mixed feelings about this topic. I like having well-groomed facial hair and have been complimented on my appearance while growing out my facial hair. The problem comes in when it is viewed as unprofessional and it would also be hard to regulate. Some people look nice with a full beard, while others look nice with a more "fadish" look (i.e. the "outline look" where the beard is only along the jawline and the mustache connects to the beard, clean shaved from the bottom lip to the chin). Where do you draw the line in a professional environment?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 4:29 PM

2014-01-11T16:29:55-05:00

I am not certain about today's NBC/CBW/CBRNE environment. But, in my day, facial hair substantially interfered with high altitude oxygen, diving masks, fire fighting gear, and gas masks.

As a consequence, while some standards were relaxed in some units, perhaps facial hair standards help to protect service members from operating environment risks.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 11 at 2014 4:39 PM

2014-01-11T16:39:34-05:00

I know there are a lot of leaders that would appreciate not having to confront some women on their facial hair. "Tell someone they have a great beard; She loses her mind." then there is the fact it is the Sikh thing to do. http://www.army.mil/article/36339/ I think that there is also a culturally normative appearance that helps when working in, around or among certain global cultures.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 11 at 2014 4:43 PM

2014-01-11T16:43:43-05:00

Yes and yes.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jan 11 at 2014 5:34 PM

2014-01-11T17:34:17-05:00

Yes. All Soldiers should have hair buns. 

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 6:39 PM

2014-01-11T18:39:59-05:00

Shaved heads for everyone in Basic!  :-)

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 8:03 PM

2014-01-11T20:03:24-05:00

One standard for females and one for men. If your woman, you should have a neat appearance. Not an Afro or corn rows, not below your collar of your uniform, and most certainly a conservative look. Too many times I've seen the black females in the Army get away with this.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 8:07 PM

2014-01-11T20:07:36-05:00

I just had this discussion with a few fellow soldiers, we came up with this. If the military had the same grooming standard for all the armed forces, would it be better for each branch. Point one: If the army would let male soldiers grow beards like the navy, would that help soldiers patrolling in villages in the middle east be easy targets or help the military in those areas? In the middle east every male pretty much grows a beard, then a clean shaven soldier comes along, would it show the locals in those villages that we can be like them if male soldier grew beards in those areas. Granted they would have to be trim and neat, not shaggy. Any ideas?

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Jan 11 at 2014 9:39 PM

2014-01-11T21:39:36-05:00

I could rock this stache and beard.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2014 12:10 AM

2014-01-12T00:10:28-05:00

Stop the madness! This standardizing the physical characteritics of men and women the same needs to be met with smart limitations. Our body parts are different with the exception of a few, men and women are not the same so lets not make it that way. The Marine Corps as you may know have postponed their physical fitness changes for women because about half the women couldn't do the minimum 3 pull-ups required by both men and women under the new PFT.

To answer your question Sir, no.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2014 4:17 PM

2014-01-12T16:17:36-05:00

It is something to consider, our current performance standards for physical fitness are incredibly sexist as are our appearance standards. If we are truly the progressive and adaptive military that we claim to be then equality must be the bedrock of all standards for the force. Understanding that there is no equivalency between equality and fairness, I say we move forward with a gender neutral standard for all service members in physical fitness, uniform appearance and duty performance. I think it would surprise us how many issues, i.e. sexual harassment, fraternization etc., that plague us today would disappear or at worse become very uncommon in occurrence.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2014 2:01 AM

2014-01-13T02:01:13-05:00

I think if the soldier keeps it trimmed then yes as far as hair female standards are okay, but if a male kept it combed and looking good then it should be okay

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 13 at 2014 6:02 PM

2014-01-13T18:02:01-05:00

Can I have cute little highlights in my hair? I am not serious! I think we should enforce the standards we have, and I say no to beards.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2014 7:41 PM

2014-01-13T19:41:30-05:00

Its about time we get with the program lol, it takes a few minutes to shave a beard " in case we have to done our pro mask" lol

Response by SSG Jason Neumann made Jan 13 at 2014 8:22 PM

2014-01-13T20:22:05-05:00

I do not think there should be a " One rule for grooming standard for male and females". I do however, believe that there should be length and not just to the eyebrows when styled. For women, there should be a definite length, not just well it can not hit the back of their collar standard. When some women wear their hair in a bun or have weaves of different hair color or what not it sticks out like a sore thumb and IMO when they wear their headgear it looks like it's about to fall off from the wind. Also, when wearing their ACH they have difficulty shooting since the damn ACH keeps being pushed down from the bundle of joy ( their bun) beating them back against their forehead. As for the males, I have seen some burly hair that just looks like a rat nest. Again, having a uniformed hair length would be my suggestion on that aspect. I think a good medium fade would suffice. I am not saying every swinging Richard needs a High and Tight. For some they just look ridiculous and just doesn't fit their head. Also, for both men and women shaving..... well ALL men should while on duty, unless on leave. And some women...... well, some i'm just jealous since they got a nicely trimmed beard going on lol. I think they should too. BUT, again this is all my opinion.... LET THE COMMENTS, COMMENCE. :)

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Jan 13 at 2014 9:35 PM

2014-01-13T21:35:11-05:00

Interesting question as the distinction between what constitutes a male or a female continues to get blurred in the media and by some activists.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2014 9:45 PM

2014-01-13T21:45:03-05:00

I understand the need for hair and beards to be kept neat and trimmed, be it Army or Navy. However some soldiers would take to the extreem. Now as of womans hair, ponytail, or bun. as long as it doesnt interfere in their jobs. Long hair for males, no, beards, as long as they are neat and trimmed and just so long. And as long as they are in the middle east, Conus, no dont think so.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2014 9:41 AM

2014-01-14T09:41:46-05:00

Unfortunately, most (not all) women in the military break the already fairly lenient rules as it is. Why when I go see our friends in the support role for something I have to see soldiers with 4 different colors of hair, or even 2 colors, or past the back of the collar? If I make the correction, some SGM jumps out like a ninja and tells me I'm being too hard on the females. I say enforce what we have, and senior leaders: stop babying soldiers just because you're scared of an EO complaint...Heaven forbid you hold both genders to the standard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2014 10:21 AM

2014-01-14T10:21:30-05:00

I feel that the standards that are set in place are good they way they are, it's a matter of Soldiers to actually follow those standards. The other problem is for both males and females to be so qick to try and correct other Soldiers without reading the regulation and actually knowing what is within regulation and what is not. Did you know females are allowed to have multiple hair colors as long as they are of natural hair color(s)? The regulation does not say anthing about females not being allowed to have two-toned hair colors. If you read the regulation, the only thing two-toned females are not allowed to have is nails.

Response by SPC Gary Basom made Jan 14 at 2014 11:09 AM

2014-01-14T11:09:30-05:00

They do.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2014 12:26 PM

2014-01-14T12:26:05-05:00

If we look at the original reasons for the standard of short hair and no facial hair (beards), then the answer should be yes, all service members should adhere to the standards for male grooming. The prevention of lice and associated diseases while living in austere environments at close quarters was once a concern. Additionally, the fitment of protective masks and other facial PPE and operational equipment is hindered by beard growth.

It is apparent that the lice concern is no longer a factor, otherwise there would be no female grooming standard. As for the beard interfering with equipment, I cant see that that has changed. Perhaps the threat of chemical weapons is diminished to a point where pro-masks are no longer considered vital? I will not speculate on that.

So, if we assume that the real, concrete reason for the standard no longer exists, then why do we still have it? One word: Tradition. I am not attacking or defending traditions, just aknowledging that they exist and they are the reason behind much of what we do.

As for changing standards to accomodate everyone to do every job, I feel that if the standard is legitimate, then it should stand, regardless of who is trying to meet it. If a Service Member (male or female) wishes to serve in a rigorous, combat related position, they should all be held to the same standards. The worst thing we can do is put someone on the ground in combat who is a liability to the Service member next to him/her.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2014 3:03 PM

2014-01-14T15:03:32-05:00

Its real simple, you allow females to have longer hair but no longer than the top of the collar in uniform. If every female were required to cut everything past the collar I think everything would be fine. No wearing it up in any bun, a braid or anything like that. You either cut your hair so its above the collar or kick rocks. I think its fair and would go a long way to equalizing things.

I am all for allowing women to keep a feminine appearance but we need to have a standard that is some what equal. Honestly the Army wants every male soldier to look the same and uniformed then why can't they make female soldiers do the same?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2014 7:23 PM

2014-01-14T19:23:30-05:00

I thought we are SERVICE MEMBERS. Women want to have equal opportunity and I am all for that, but I believe that there should be one and only one standard across the board. Same grooming standards (cut it off), same Pt standards (why should a 17-21 yr old woman be able to do 42 push ups and max when a male in the same age group has to do 71?), and take out your ear rings (males cant wear them)!!!! ONE STANDARD should be implemented for all service members, but will that ever happen? not a chance

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jan 15 at 2014 9:15 AM

2014-01-15T09:15:50-05:00

I keep seeing this "if you correct a Soldier, EO gets involved" but I don't understand why that's an issue. Does EO forbade leaders from making corrections? Just curious as to what the EO complaint would be.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2014 9:34 AM

2014-01-15T09:34:40-05:00

Soldier need to stop getting high and tights. That doesn't look professional at all. Get a proper mid level fade equally faded all the way around the head with a proper lining or shave it off.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2014 9:36 AM

2014-01-15T09:36:43-05:00

soldiers need to stop getting high tights. Get a proper mid level fade. That faded equally all the way around or shave it bald.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2014 3:29 PM

2014-01-15T15:29:10-05:00

I think this matter will always be of discussion because regardless
of the standard, there will always be someone breaking it intentionally or unintentionally. This has to do more with discipline and customs. Let us all enforce and practice what we
already have.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2014 3:35 PM

2014-01-15T15:35:34-05:00

When I first joined the Army we were told the grooming standards for men were designed to keep us all alive if we were chemmed. I was a history major in college and still do a lot of research as a hobbie. It doesnt take long to figure out that American Generals wore beards and long hair. Its our thing. I absolutely think we should be allowed to have very robust facial hair.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2014 4:53 PM

2014-01-15T16:53:03-05:00

If we are theoretically moving towards that, we had better determine a gender-neutral term to address officers because hair grooming standards are about all that differentiate some Servicemembers by gender, and how are we to determine if s/he is a Ma'am or Sir?

Response by CPT Jason Torpy made Jan 15 at 2014 8:15 PM

2014-01-15T20:15:04-05:00

I think the biggest benefit would be to get military people to stop fixating on appearance and focus more on performance. (also see PT standards.)

I think this will happen immediately after the military eliminates anti-Trans discrimination.

I think it will be helpful to drop a lot of gender biases. But I could be convinced otherwise. There are physiological differences and real gender norms that a lot of people opt into and prefer to opt into. And gender norms can be oppressive in some situations but they are also a shortcut that can make it easier to interact with others.

Response by SFC Robert Putzer made Jan 16 at 2014 10:50 PM

2014-01-16T22:50:30-05:00

I would love to have a beard! However, a beard prevents a good seal on your protective mask. That's why males have to be clean shaven in the "non-cool guy" part of the Army. I remember when my dad had to shave his beard; (He was Navy,) him and the other Chiefs put the remains of their beards into a shoebox and buried it outside the Admiral's Quarters. They even got the Bugler to play Taps.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2014 1:52 AM

2014-01-17T01:52:41-05:00

Sir,

No. However, I have observed as well as discussed with many many NCOs/Officers and some of them have voiced their own timidness in making corrections for female grooming standards. Some of the reasons include, a) they simply do not feel that they can approach a female Soldier about her hair b) lack of knowledge on exactly how the hair should look c) fear that their correction might be misconstrued and result in a complaint.

Response by LTC Mark Grgurich made Jan 18 at 2014 1:47 AM

2014-01-18T01:47:09-05:00

I think that women should be women. It helps men become better men. Usually.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 11:39 AM

2014-01-18T11:39:01-05:00

YEs we should as long as we keep it professional and wel groomed. Ther should not be an issue.

Females and males should have one grooming standard. Females should maintain a feminine appearance no matter what their preference. Males should maintain a manly appearance not matter the preference. We are a professional army and should be portrayed as such. This is discipline and it is what has defined and made our armed forces successfully for many years. We should strive to keep it disciplined and keep it successful for many more years to come

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 11:51 AM

2014-01-18T11:51:25-05:00

BLUF, we have set standards outlined in AR 670-1 and the last time I checked we follow standards. NCO's need to enforce the standards but the way I am seeing it today NCO's are not what they used to be. This "new" Army is ridiculous, NCO's are afraid to say anything because of the constant threat of false EO or SHARP complaints. We need to go back to the way the Army was a decade ago. Don't get me wrong there are some recent changes in policy that are great in the way ahead, but this baby Soldiers shit is just that.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Jan 18 at 2014 5:36 PM

2014-01-18T17:36:35-05:00

Equality is a 2 way street. You cant pick what you want and what you don't want. If female service members truly wanted equality, real equality, and not just the kicks of being able to say "I can be combat arms" (Again not all female service members are like this).... they would accept grooming and PT standards also. This isn't about "Fairness" this is about having the most deadly and efficient fighting force.

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Jan 18 at 2014 7:51 PM

2014-01-18T19:51:21-05:00

I do not know who said it, but it goes like this: "I have never seen a haircut win a war." Or something similar.

It's important to have certain grooming standards to keep up. Once your in the field, it tends to go out the window depending how long your away from hot showers, baths, etc. But as long as you keep them up you will look good. I just wish someone would come up with something so that men do not have to shave their face every day.

Another thing, I was in Aircraft Maintenance and I was not to thrilled when someone got a scuff (when we still had to polish our boots), and they stopped what they were doing to buff it. We were working on a jet and you do not stop maintenance because of a scuff on your boot. Wait until your back in the shop to do that.

Response by SSG Shannon Howe made Jan 18 at 2014 10:24 PM

2014-01-18T22:24:58-05:00

Personally, if anything I wouldn't mind makes being allowed to have more hair, rather than force females to cut theirs short. Keep in mind not everyone looks good with long (or short) hair, and as always there will be those who push the envelope and ruin it for everyone else. I also wouldn't mind makes being allowed to have some facial hair, I'm not a fan of big bushy beards or staches, but I like nearly trimmed goatees and such. Of course Big Army swears it would interfere with the wear of a gas mask, but anyone who has been to FCBC knows if we get gassed we're pretty much SOL mask or not, all it does is give us a little longer to suffer and (maybe) continue mission a little longer before we die horribly, lol. Mission first, right?

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jan 23 at 2014 7:11 AM

2014-01-23T07:11:54-05:00

I think introducing beards into the US military will bring more slack into an already slack Army that can't even keep boot laces tucked in. Once I start seeing people taking care of what they have, they should get no further privileges.

Response by CPT Mike M. made Jan 23 at 2014 7:47 AM

2014-01-23T07:47:51-05:00

Sir, men and women are not the same and should not be lumped together like that so no, I don't think the regulation should be changed for that reason. On that note, I've met a few females (and this isn't supposed to be mean, but just a fact) who should be required to shave.

However....

I just read yesterday that the military is approving the wear of religious items previously banned as well as religion related facial hair like beards with those of the Sheikh faith. I think this is one step toward allowing well groomed beards for all. It'll be too hard to enforce based on religion and is a discriminating factor when you say Soldier X is allowed a beard because of this religion but Soldier Y isn't because of his religion or lack thereof. That and there will be too many people CLAIMING a certain religion even though they don't believe it, just so they can look cool with their beard.

Response by SSG Oliver Mathews made Feb 2 at 2014 2:34 AM

2014-02-02T02:34:37-05:00

Sir, I think your asking two questions. Cause if we have one grooming standards with beards then... wont that mean that women will have to grow a beard? But if we have one standard with out beards men cant have them...

In all seriousness No, two standards. But the Female standard needs to be enforced, and not overlooked cause its a female.

Response by SGT Larry "Teruji" Sakai made Feb 3 at 2014 5:05 PM

2014-02-03T17:05:07-05:00

Yes one standard, And No beards

Response by SPC Michael Wright made Feb 4 at 2014 3:20 PM

2014-02-04T15:20:05-05:00

Yes--less hair--less bugs

Response by SPC Dylan Archer made Feb 5 at 2014 10:42 AM

2014-02-05T10:42:53-05:00

Well, I for one think the hair standards are outdated, they were obviously introduced for a reason, that reason was set in motion during WWI mostly for hygienic reasons, a good seal on chemical masks, and the theory that general upkeep of uniform and appearance aids in discipline and camaraderie.

That being said, I do feel it is slightly outdated, before I left the military I noticed a large jump in "shaving profiles" and general appearance of uniforms and other areas was diminishing rapidly anyhow.

I think it time that there was a small amount of leeway granted to service members but not so much as to promote individuality, remember, you have to retain the notion that no one person is a stand out, you're a team. Now, while I don't believe appearance alone instills this attitude (mainly the leadership does) I do believe service members should feel comfortable with their appearance (e.g. some people knowingly look better with longer hair and vice versa, both in facial and general hair).

This is a topic that should be at the discretion of the unit, I for one remember a time while in Iraq when we were out in sector for extended periods of time only to come back to the FOB deemed unkempt and thus were turned away from the defac until we were clean shaved. Now where I understand the hygienic reasons behind this, at the time it was rather infuriating, especially when you have to go right back out shortly there after. So I feel wartime/overseas standards should be more relaxed than garrison standards at least.

Army Regulations - Army Regulation 670-1 -- Wear And Appearance Of Army Uniforms And Insignia

United States Army regulations, manuals, and Pamphlets available to read on the Internet.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2014 12:08 PM

2014-02-05T12:08:02-05:00

Sir, I have mixed feelings on the beard issue. Do we allow fu manchus, gotees, handle bars, etc. or just a groomed beard?

Do you women who wear your hair in the syle of a high and tight or a fade get offended when you are mistaken as a man? Just asking the question, no disrespect intended or implied.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2014 12:16 PM

2014-02-05T12:16:39-05:00

Sir,

I personally feel that it is a bit biased that when a women (enlisted) comes into the Army she is allowed to keep her long hair or cut it if she pleases but a man with long hair is forced to cut his hair no matter what.

People would strongly disagree with me if I said maybe women should have to cut their hair to shoulder length and many people would disagree with me if I said men with long groomed hair should be able to keep their hair as long as they conform to the standards that women have had to conform to.

It is the social/organizational norm and people will automatically feel against that but to be fair or politically correct it should be that way but, that is just my opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2014 4:26 PM

2014-02-05T16:26:40-05:00

Heck yeah, low skin fade, #2 up top. This would cure many ailments in the Army. No more wopsided hats/berets. I can dig this.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Apr 3 at 2014 6:33 PM

2014-04-03T18:33:15-04:00

Yes, I think we should be able to have well groomed beards. But until that happens I will continue to shave and have irritated skin.

Response by SSG Nathan Bryant made May 6 at 2014 3:49 PM

2014-05-06T15:49:17-04:00

In my opinion, "No" . . . there should not be ONE grooming standard versus two (male/female).

Response by PFC Glen King made May 6 at 2014 7:45 PM

2014-05-06T19:45:18-04:00

High and Tights for everyone!!! lol

Response by SSG Dale Sibble made May 7 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-05-07T11:40:07-04:00

I think they should have that it makes the army look like you are in a beauty contest now no pride in uniform

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Aug 13 at 2014 5:30 PM

2014-08-13T17:30:05-04:00

How does it effect mission readiness? I was under the impression that facial hair (and overall bulk of female hair) standards were set due to considerations of getting a proper seal on a gas mask?

If I recall the Navy allowed beards into the 1980's?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2014 5:16 PM

2014-11-12T17:16:24-05:00

I don't know if this was a serious question or not, but I'm all for unified standards. Females want to be in the military? Then they can meet ALL of the same minimum standards as males. It's not about political correctness, it's about what gives us the best fighting force.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-01-11T16:12:37-05:00

Facial hair interferes with oxygen masks and gas masks. As a female I have such a small amount of girlie features left in uniform it would be appreciated if I could keep the few I have.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 10:54 PM

2015-02-02T22:54:20-05:00

In my opinion, beards are unprofessional

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2016 5:02 PM

2016-02-25T17:02:03-05:00

Yes, One team, one fight.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2016 8:24 PM

2016-02-25T20:24:03-05:00

I think a beard is part of being a man. If you're in a place with a CBRNE threat, require shaving during that time. Shaving every day is also pretty bad for your skin.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 9:40 AM

2016-06-23T09:40:39-04:00

A common grooming standard of "short" hair should be maintained for the "combat arms" (short enough that an enemy opponent cannot get a hold on you) or in a jungle/tropical environment for the sake of hygiene and low maintenance. Well groomed beards are appropriate in the field, as shaving "nicks" to the skin, create an unnecessary risk of infection. This would result in a visible distinction between men and women in the field. That fact alone would probably trump the practicality of the idea, since the current trend is toward gender normative standards to the exclusion of common sense.