Should the United States look at overhauling the education system?

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 15:51:21 -0500

I recently started going back to school to finish my BA in English. I take no less than 18 CH a semester and manage to receive As in every class. At the same time, I have witnessed a fair number of students, ranging in ages from 18 to early 20s, who struggle to grasp concepts, write papers, and think critically about information. Today, I received a grade back for a paper that I had written for a course. The subject does not interest me and I put in a minimum effort; because of this fact, I had expected to get a less than perfect grade; in fact, I fully expected to receive no better than a C or low B. To my surprise and confusion, I received a 96%. Has the standard of education in our country spiraled down so far that we should think about revamping the system? According to WorldTop20.org, the U.S. doesn't even break the Top 10 in Education; we sit at 20.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Feb 19 at 2018 4:01 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:01:33 -0500

I think that the education system in America, for the most part, has become degraded, dumbed down, so to speak. I hear kids today that don't really know a lot, don't really understand the importance of education and, moreover, don't care. Discipline needs to be returned to the classroom. We need more motivate teachers, allowing for reduced class size. Correction must be implemented at the lower grades initially, K thru 6. Once this level of schooling is returned to a high quality educational experience, then move on to the grades of 7-9, moving along with the kids that are now leaving the elementary school campus transitioning onto the jr. hi level. Same for moving to the 10-12 grades. Institutions of Higher Education will take over at that point where competition will demand the best. So, it must start at the very bottom and grow from there. This will be a long term proposition but well worth it in the end. Return the Flag, the Pledge and perhaps prayer (at least voluntary.) We have let our kids down in this country. I am nearly 70 years old and schools today don't hold a candle to the schools of the 50's and 60's.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2018 4:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:21:45 -0500

Very interesting paper. Format it in docx or pdf and feel free to send it to me via message... I would love to read it!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2018 4:25 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:25:56 -0500

I saw the same thing when I went to school back in 2000. I had been an enlisted Marine for 5 years and that made the difference. I went to class. I didn't care about parties and beer. I did the assignments. I put forth effort. Oh, and thanks to the GI Bill I was paying for it. Now I don't fault the 18 year olds too much. When I was an 18yo private I partied and drank beer and didn't put effort where I should have.
However, since your question was about the education system, I think college has become a given and thus it isn't important to kids anymore. It used to be a big deal to attend college. It was challenging and people recognized the value in it. These days, a degree isn't worth as much. Is it important? Yes. But it no longer sets you apart, it just brings you back up to level. And why is that? Colleges get money when people attend so the more people they enroll, the more money they make. And you can't fail everyone or people will stop enrolling so the standards drop. This is just my opinion but if you make degrees harder to get by increasing the standards, fewer people will get them, thus making them worth more. But the schools would have to settle for less money and they'll never willingly do that.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 19 at 2018 4:29 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:29:18 -0500

No. The United States should get the hell out of education. Close the US Dept of Education forthwith. Where in the Constitution is there any mandate for the federal government to be involved? Indeed, the quality of education has been in steady decline in the US ever since its inception...

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2018 4:41 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:41:40 -0500

SGT Joseph Gunderson I attended college after serving four years. I had attended a hard high school, but was still apprehensive after being out of school for four years. I worked full time and went to school full time. I was there with a goal of obtaining a degree while many of the students were there to party. During my civilian career, I witnessed many co-workers that had third grade writing skills, no math skills, and had obviously been passed through the system without learning basic knowledge. We have to stop passing students that do not meet the standards, and the standards need to be upgraded.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 19 at 2018 6:20 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:20:21 -0500

Post HS education. To your point primary and secondary need to be reevauluated. We also need to reintroduce trade programs in order to fulfill Bluecollar jobs as was done up through the early 80s. As for university programs as you are taking, grades can be tied to the university programs attended and the professors assigned. I do not believe it to be feasible to align all of the varying types of programs and standards throughout. Most times at the university level you get what you pay for. Just my thoughts. Thank you for your service.

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Feb 19 at 2018 6:50 PM

CW3 Jeff Held — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:50:46 -0500

Oh Sweet Jesus YES the USA should overhaul our education system - not should it “look” at it.
Jettison the teachers union and seniority 1st. People were / are in an uproar over ‘Common Core’ (CC). The notion of CC is fantastic. What bastardized it was the overwhelmingly varied interpretation of what it was, what it meant, and how to implement.

Our kids are lagging behind in science, technology, engineering, and math - so much so that the US will see an increase of importing talent to make up for industry shortages.

From pre-K to at least 12th grade the US needs to revamp our basic educational model. I am a proponent of a two track system; one for academia and white collar and the other for vocational blue collar. Even with this distinction there is no reason not to have CC.

Certainly this is a complex topic and I’m not trying to minimize it. But care has to be taken so that the “Old Guard” does not win at making it so convoluted that we are paralyzed from making any changes.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 20 at 2018 12:41 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 00:41:46 -0500

Education is the one area that, once fixed, allows you the ability to fix all other problems. A country of intelligent, critical thinkers, combined with a scientifically literate populace/electorate is the only shovel that will get us out of our current educational hole. No nation, convinced of it's greatness, should be content to consistently place 28-30th in the globe in the STEM fields...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 20 at 2018 9:56 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 09:56:28 -0500

Yes, we have dumbed down our education- we are teaching leftist/liberal leaning with out balancing them with the other side. We teach rights with out responsibilities, We deride anyone who doesn't agree. We believe by rote w/o individual thinking. Our kids no damn little history , social studies or history.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Feb 20 at 2018 10:19 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:19:42 -0500

Yes, restructure it by getting the federal government OUT of it, hire and promote teachers and administrators by MERIT, and merit alone, and enact right-to-work rules everywhere to stop forcing people to pay money to unions they don't want to be in. We gave up a wonderful opportunity to learn what education systems work, and which ones don't, when we created the DOE and gave the federal government power in an area it wasn't meant to have power.

Response by CPL Chris Palmberg made Feb 20 at 2018 10:56 AM

CPL Chris Palmberg — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:56:01 -0500

My opinion is that Education is at the top of the pile when it comes to a culture of entitlement. A large reason that so many collegiate scholars (and I use that term loosely) struggle with critical thinking, simple concepts such as grammar, sentence structure, context, and the like is because there is absolutely no barrier to them. Our society has become wrapped around the axle when it comes to conformity. By mandating educational progression, we have effectively created a parchment bubble.

My grandfather's generation was mandated to attend school thru the 8th grade. At that time, their options were to apprentice or continue formal schooling with secondary school. The latter was reserved for white collar prospects, so much of the secondary school curriculum was either college prep or business focused (typing, accounting, etc.) In my parent's generation, high school was more or less mandatory, and HS grads either got a job, went to trade school, university, or were conscripted. Most who sought education did so with one or more jobs outside of school because we didn't give away education. In my generation, college was the primary destination. Today, as long as you can pay your money, usually through student loans to top off what the Pell Grant provides, you can attend a 4 year university.

The result is that if you don't know what you want to be when you grow up, you go to college and spend a year or two undeclared until you are forced to decide. Students whose accomplishments are managing to squeeze four years of high school into less than 5 years are allowed to attend college.

By comparison, many nations in Europe have end-of-school aptitude tests. If you score poorly across the board, you are pushed into less intellectual pursuits. If your results show a high degree of competence in natural sciences, you are funnelled into medicine, physical, or life sciences. If you completely bomb the exams, your academic career is over and you find yourself looking for employment as a laborer.

Buildling on this model, with periodic "reclassification" testing as an option, someone who struggles to get through basic schooling enters the work force at 18, and if they apply themselves in the intervening years, can retest for post-secondary education a few years later.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 20 at 2018 11:18 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:18:19 -0500

At the recommendation of my senior, I hired PHD Ed as an instructor for my group. During his relocation, he asked for an extension of his benefits. When he twice forwarded his written requests, they were incomprehensible, an adequate request was forwarded for approval. I found out later my Executive Assistant wrote it for him. Yes, our public education system is FUBAR.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Feb 20 at 2018 5:50 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 17:50:18 -0500

The education system does need to be overhauled in the United States. How this happens, I don't know. What I do know is what I've seen firsthand.

I had a high school English teacher who had such a passion for teaching. Think Robin Williams in Dead Poet's Society. This man would climb up onto the desks and shout to the heavens as he was reenacting Shakespeare. The next year I had him, the State instituted standardized testing as a curriculum. You could see the passion drained from him as he was forced to teach to a test.

I've seen it in other places too where we teach kids how to take a test, but not teach them how to think. We used to treat kids as individuals and teach them in the manner that best suits them. Some learn by reading, some by doing, others through repetition. Now we just lump together with the same cookie cutter curriculum in the hopes we don't lose school funding.

We need to get back to teaching kids how to think, not just what to think.

Response by AN Charles Beal made Oct 9 at 2023 10:41 AM

AN Charles Beal — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 10:41:46 -0400

The part that needs to be overhauled would be the. The administration side. It's a waste of money with little return to be seen. Federal, State, and local school government bodies are a large burden on school finances. We can do better without the dead weight