Should the US Constitution (handbook version) be an inspectable item?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:48:22 -0400

This is from a company called Little Books of Wisdom
Big seller on amazon they have the us constitution to the Declaration of Independence to the articles of confederation plus more. Since we are suppose to be supporting and defending the US Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic.... shouldn’t our soldier stidy and ACTUALLY read the constitution since defending this is our FIRST mission as a service member? Do you think this little book should be an inspectable item in the present or near future? Comment below. I want to hear the opinions from other leaders out there. Disclaimer:if you are just going to comment negativity and hate due to your own ego.... then just keep scrolling. Thank you

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 12:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:52:30 -0400

No, but it’d be great for you to give your SMs some homework to read and have discussions on the articles. Or even have a class on them and leave a lot of open room for discussion. Either would work great.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 12:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:54:14 -0400

On a side note... if it’s so important for me and my soldiers to have The Marne standard handbook on us.. then I think it’s just as important to have this little book on us as well. In my humble opinion.

Response by SGT Paul Turnbull made Jul 2 at 2020 12:54 AM

SGT Paul Turnbull — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:54:59 -0400

While I do believe that every American should be familiar with and have access to the Constitution, I can't personally think of any reason to make it an inspectable item. Just my take.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jul 2 at 2020 12:56 AM

LTC Jason Mackay — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:56:22 -0400

At the PME II course there is a mod on the constitution and they issue a pocket version. I think the focus on constitutionality of orders is at a higher level, like the service and joint staff level (what PME II is for). Not really the tactical formation level.

Response by SGT Thomas Heinold made Jul 2 at 2020 1:19 AM

SGT Thomas Heinold — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 01:19:26 -0400

You should know it forwards and backwards just like any manual of arms

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 1:20 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 01:20:41 -0400

It is important to understand what the Constitution actually says, but as far as an inspectable item, I don't think it really accomplishes much for readiness or discipline. It's just one more thing for Soldiers to carry around in their pockets, and we all know how often Soldiers actually read the literature we make them carry around...

In the long run, though, you have to ask yourself if it helps your Soldiers accomplish the mission any more effectively. A notebook, writing utensils, or watch can help save lives in the right situation, and the habit of carrying one in AND out of garrison is something that gives you a positive boost to readiness, even if Soldiers think it's stupid. Carrying a pocket Constitution, though, doesn't really add a tangible benefit to your Soldiers' ability to accomplish the mission.

If those 3.8oz of weight and space would consistently be better spent on a few more rounds of ammo, another packet of Cerasport, or more NODs batteries, it's probably smarter to prioritize that and build those habits by making them inspectable.

Smart cards can be useful, and I think a "US Civics" Smart Card, with explanations of how the different branches of government and legislation interact and fit together could be something to pass out.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 2 at 2020 1:41 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 01:41:46 -0400

I think that it should be issued at Reception Station and classes should be taught about it. It should be required knowledge and tested at promotion and Soldier/NCO of the month boards. Should a copy be an inspectable item? I don't know, but I do know if it was Board Testable, Soldiers would keep it close.

Response by SSG Jimmy Cernich made Jul 2 at 2020 2:25 AM

SSG Jimmy Cernich — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 02:25:50 -0400

Yep it needs to be learned by many not just a few.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 2:44 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 02:44:37 -0400

Maybe the copy of the constitution we got handed out to us in US history in highschool. As for the rest, naw. Should it be discussed? For sure. Inspectable, maybe not

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 3:29 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 03:29:38 -0400

Considering we have entire portions of our government devoted to interpretation not the Constitution.... Probably not gonna help. Also alot of soldiers don't even read their blue books.

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Jul 2 at 2020 4:41 AM

SrA Ronald Moore — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 04:41:09 -0400

Yes it should be added! as a matter of fact at least at Basic Training it should be added to that manual that When I came thru Basic Trng ,Lackland AFB, Texas , It was a manual we carried everywhere while training.Then As Part Of Training for your Speciality, it should be added and tested on too!

Response by LTC John Griscom made Jul 2 at 2020 7:42 AM

LTC John Griscom — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 07:42:51 -0400

This subject used to be covered in high school (back in the day) before the education system became screwed up. We were told in the 1960s that the communists were concentrating on two areas in our colleges and universities - education and journalism. Form your own opinion on that premise.

Response by SSG George Holtje made Jul 2 at 2020 8:03 AM

SSG George Holtje — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:03:07 -0400

Yes

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Jul 2 at 2020 8:50 AM

SSG Carlos Madden — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:50:27 -0400

Good in theory but in practice it may be hard to get the point across. People in the military come from all different levels of education and simply assigning some reading isn't likely to resonate in the way you intended for lots of soldiers.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 9:52 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 09:52:20 -0400

Good to know. Good to read. Inspection item? No. We have enough stuff to keep track of that is inspectable.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 10:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 10:41:53 -0400

No. Yes, I think service members should know the constitution, it was a part of required training during a recent VBA. However, no, I do not think it should now or in the future be an inspectable item.

Secondly, and let me say this first, I do not believe you are the type I am about to describe, as I do not know you very well, just need to say it. But secondly, a lot of people who believe that soldiers should fight back against "domestic terrorists" and "tyrants" hinting at politicians, do not fully realize the severity of what they're actually implying. Again, not saying that's you. I have heard similar talk with that type of ideas being tossed around.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 2 at 2020 12:09 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 12:09:02 -0400

Brother Cody, we have too much inspect able junk now, and in my day as well. A smart leader should Know why the are doing things- Nobody ever jumped me or my troops for having a mini library on Mil history, tactics, gov't etc.

Response by 1LT Christopher Gonzales made Jul 2 at 2020 12:12 PM

1LT Christopher Gonzales — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 12:12:20 -0400

I would ask what is the end state. I'm assuming that the end goal is to have Soldiers at all levels be familiar with the Constitution. So, the next question is will making a pocket Constitution an inspectible item guarentee that Soldiers at all levels are familiar with the Constitution? Or is it possible for it to be an inspectible item and someone not be familiar with the Constitution?

To me, an inspectible item is something that is intended either to error-proof or mitigate some hazard or situation that could occur.

While I find it important to read the Constitution and I had a pocket version, I don't think that having all Soldiers carry one will make them more efficient or effective. And I dont think it will guarantee better understanding of it at all levels.

What I think will most likely happen is that it's something Soldiers at all levels will carry because their told to without actually digging into it.

I would say since it doesn't force an outcome, probably not.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2020 2:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 14:51:00 -0400

Why do people need to carry it on them? That doesn't guarantee they will read it - and even if they read it doesn't mean they'll understand it. Also think about all the Supreme Court rulings over the years that have been made on the different amendments. Are they expected to know all that?

I don't see how having it on one's person would accomplish them understanding it.

You could have it maybe as a NCOPD. Or if there's downtime one day pull it out and discuss...perhaps?

But you can't force people to learn nor read it and the more you force things the more resistant people will be. I'd rather put the idea in a soldier's head to do the research on their own and be invested in learning about the Constitution than it feeling like a chore to them.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2020 1:42 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 13:42:37 -0400

Its a great thought, but like its been said by others, it's another thing joes have to read or carry. I would simply keep it as a leaders reading list material. As it stands all officers whether going through ocs, ROTC or an academy need to take military history courses. Most of the time the constitution, declaration of independence, or articles of confederation are primary sources required for reading. At most I would keep it as a useful reading material for enlisted looking to make the jump to E5.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2020 2:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 14:04:24 -0400

I don't think it should be however, the constitution should be gone embedded in to NCOES as well as an emphasis on UCMJ because there are a lot of violations committed by Officers and NCOs.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2020 7:28 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jul 2020 19:28:50 -0400

I Inspectable item? Nah. Required reading? Absolutely. With spot checks. How can we put our name to protecting and defending something if we don't know what it is?
Defending the constitution is as ideological as it is physical.

Response by Cpl Rigo Hernandez made Jul 26 at 2020 9:41 AM

Cpl Rigo Hernandez — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 09:41:21 -0400

I believe we are combat oriented, and have leadership that are accountable. We do our mission and they do theirs. Let’s focus on the mission, while we are in uniform we should be impartial.

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made Oct 20 at 2022 8:48 PM

SGT Ruben Lozada — Thu, 20 Oct 2022 20:48:11 -0400

Negative ghostrider!