Should the VA provide mental health treatment for separated veterans with 'bad paper' (OTH) discharges?

SSG Carlos Madden — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 10:54:57 -0500

The VA announced they will allow mental health treatment for service members with OTH discharges in an effort to combat suicides among our veteran population.

Is this something we should do or if one is separated under any OTH circumstances, whatever they may be, should one lose their VA benefits?

http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/bad-paper-va-extending-mental-health-services

VA to start offering mental health care to 'bad paper' veterans

Troops with other-than-honorable discharges could still get mental health treatment under the policy change.

Response by PO2 Robert M. made Mar 8 at 2017 10:56 AM

PO2 Robert M. — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 10:56:25 -0500

DEFINITELY!! That may have been the underlying reason for discharge!!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 11:00 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:00:13 -0500

Depends on what the bad paper was for. Was it for PTSD related stuff? Then yes. Is it because they were just a bad egg? Probably not.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Mar 8 at 2017 11:00 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:00:33 -0500

Interesting question SSG Carlos Madden.

I say yes they should because as PO2 Robert M. said, it could be the underlying reason for the discharge. But I can also see why some would say no to this idea.

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 8 at 2017 11:06 AM

SFC George Smith — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:06:04 -0500

this is One That Needs to be Dealt with On a case by case basis...
there are some Washouts who never did a thing or went anywhere...
where others hare suffering from their Deployments and the bad paper is a result of those Deployments...
So over all... the VA Does Needs to review the BCD's and They Need to keep the Damn Politics and "Non Medical People" out of the Decisions...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 11:18 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:18:52 -0500

SSG Carlos Madden My question would be what is the root cause of the mental health issue? If it is service related, then definitely. How many vets have we seen that were suffering from PTSD or other ailments and then subjected to disciplinary action when they returned form a combat tour.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Mar 8 at 2017 11:19 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:19:12 -0500

I don't have a problem with this, especially if it helps reduce the suicide rate among veterans. The problem lies in whether or not this change would impact other veterans. If the VA simply expands the number of people eligible for these services, without any new resources, it may very well reduce access for all veterans (increase in demand, no increase in supply). That would be problematic. If the VA gets additional resources to handle this new workload, the existing veterans shouldn't run into problems getting access to care. The former is problematic; the latter is acceptable (in my opinion).

Response by SGT David T. made Mar 8 at 2017 11:41 AM

SGT David T. — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:41:44 -0500

My knee jerk reaction is to say it should be on a case by case basis. However, thinking back through my experiences, I am not sure that the VA is adequate to determine the correct ones from the incorrect ones. I would much rather err on the side of caution and treat too many people than not enough.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 8 at 2017 12:30 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 12:30:58 -0500

Would be ok with a mental health review at the vets request.
If that review determined a reasonable possibility that the OTH was a result of mental health issues vice simple criminal activity then yes offer them mental health services.

The problem with just making a black and white blank proposal of if OT H was due to ABC, YES, DEF, NO is almost anything can result in an OT H and almost anything could be the root cause of that inappropriate act.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 1:17 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 13:17:36 -0500

SSG Carlos Madden Yes, if we can prevent veteran suicides, I am for it as long as those with honorable discharges do not get short changed. I would not go beyond mental health care for OTH discharges.

Response by PO2 Robert Aitchison made Mar 8 at 2017 1:43 PM

PO2 Robert Aitchison — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 13:43:20 -0500

I think yes in some circumstances and no in others. Of course the criteria for when it would and wouldn't be appropriate would be difficult to pin down. I would say yes for sure for any veteran who had deployed to a combat zone.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 1:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 13:59:46 -0500

Chances are the OTH discharge is a direct result of service connected mental health issues. That's not always the case unfortunately so it would be difficult to draw the line.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 3:16 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 15:16:12 -0500

We don't leave our fellow servicemen on the battlefield and some of these people may still be at war in their own minds. Regardless of what they may have done to cause their character of separation they still served. To turn our back on them is not just foolish due to any potential harm to society, it is just morally wrong. They provide limited healthcare to people in prison so how can we justify not helping those that are in society, simply because they made some mistakes while in service. As some here have noted, we may find that their mental state could have contributed to their nature of separation. There will always be exceptions and those can be screened out in the process, but I think we owe them at least a good faith effort. Trained clinicians should be able to determine whether the applicant is a career criminal looking for a loophole or someone whose mental state and actions contributed to their OTH separation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 7:16 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 19:16:18 -0500

I'm fine with it, maybe it should be on a case by case basis. Did the OTH deploy? What was the cause of the OTH? Etc.

EDIT

I don't trust the VA to do it on a case by case basis, give it to all of them just to be safe.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Mar 8 at 2017 9:55 PM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:55:52 -0500

If it is service connected, yes. It's no different than if you were injured due to working for a civilian company. That company would be liable for your medical care.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 8 at 2017 11:17 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 23:17:44 -0500

Yes

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 11:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Mar 2017 23:20:47 -0500

This is a tough one, but I would err on the side of care.
Many people don't know this, but the VA recognizes it's own characterization of service, called HVA (or Honorable for VA purposes). From what I've see working there, this is how the VA accounts for Veterans with OTH discharges, but service-connected issues incurred on duty that require ongoing care.

Response by LTC Sonya Friday made Mar 9 at 2017 6:24 AM

LTC Sonya Friday — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 06:24:31 -0500

Yes they should, if the military doesn't treat them who will. If they received bad paper they are not entitled to any benefits. Mental Illness is a serious issues and the VA should not ignore folks with this condition. They are left to society to try and figure it out and many can't that is why you see them homeless. I'm not sure my response is the right answer but it is my attempt to voice my opinion.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2017 3:17 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 15:17:46 -0500

Like basically everyone else said, it depends. If it was related to a mental illness/injury related to service then it is their duty. But at the same time, they should have done something way before then. Now we have to fix what has been overlooked and ignored and do better moving forward.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Mar 10 at 2017 2:45 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 14:45:10 -0500

I marked yes...but want to clarify....Yes, if it can be proven that the mental health issues had something to do with OTH discharge.

Response by MSgt John Wylie made Mar 10 at 2017 2:58 PM

MSgt John Wylie — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 14:58:00 -0500

A good rule of thumb might be "If the member was seen by mental health professionals while on active duty, then they could be eligible to be seen by VA mental health professionals even with an OTH separation."

Response by SSG(P) D. Wright Downs made Mar 11 at 2017 11:23 AM

SSG(P) D. Wright Downs — Sat, 11 Mar 2017 11:23:18 -0500

There are times when the OTH discharges are due to mental health issues. That is a yes. Often these things have been overlooked by the military. The military has been know to do the expeditious things in order to save the government money. The military has done many things that have been a disservice t the service members...we have witnessed that, and many may have been the recipients of that...the DoD has not been the friend of the SM it said it would be on enlistment day. There have been many BOHICAs by both the DoD and the VA benefits people, a get in line tye of thing.

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Aug 8 at 2017 7:41 PM

AA Joseph Moody — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 19:41:11 -0400

When I think about how many kids I've known who have enlisted because it was their first ride out of a bad situation...

But maybe we need more mental health services...or less stigma for using them for those who are on active duty, and a program to continue said services after they are discharged.