Should there be an automatic promotion to E5 or E6 if you just get the required points?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 May 2014 11:41:17 -0400

My question to all should you be automatically promoted to E5 or E6 if you have not gone to the board and you just acquired points and slacked off.

I have seen this go into favor and then be bad at the same time. It can promote toxic leaders and slackers. With that I know their ego might get big and go power crazy.

Yes I know you still have to go to the board and get recommended but I would like your thoughts on this automatic promo.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made May 20 at 2014 4:25 PM

CPT Jacob Swartout — Tue, 20 May 2014 16:25:23 -0400

SGT Achenbach,myself being a prior service NCO, the promotion boards tested my abilities to be a SGT and SSG. I was told for years that I must earn my promotable status first when I was a PVT. Then I would go to the NCOES. I have seen some automatic promotions go well for some NCOs and not so well for others. The ones that were ready, despite not attending school just yet, were strong as junior enlisted. The ones not ready had a difficult time adjusting or were demoted. Most just needed some more time to develop and they eventually caught on to thier obligations as a new NCO in the unit.

As for automatic to the next rank, in some ways it is an incentive knowing you will get promoted and are expected to do your duties and responsibilities well. It is your opportunity to advance once you get pinned on. It is up the individual then to continue to be the next leader in the NCO Corps. The Army needs NCOs as leaders and not pay grade Soldiers like my CSM always said to us back in the old days.

I still think it would help everyone to be evaluated first to see how ready they are. What I would do is change the way the promotion boards are conducted. I would rather see how the Soldier knows his job duties. I understand that the board will ask questions from many topics to see the all around version but, knowing your job to me is important. I knew mine well and did enough to answer the other topics and pass. As long as you are confident, they will see the potential of you being a leader and get you promotable.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2014 4:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 May 2014 16:56:55 -0400

I like that the automatic promotion concept places pressure on leaders to do the right thing regarding subordinates' promotion eligibility. In order to police the ranks and keep the corps honest, supervisors have incentive to ensure they are counseling and/or chaptering non-performers. This should be done anyways if someone is choosing not to recommend eligible candidates for promotion, but now laziness will equate to that Soldier being promoted anyway. Of course, laziness can also be the root of Soldiers who should be promoted to be brushed aside. This protects them as well, and serves a backstop for those who aren't sent to the promotion board simply because their leadership doesn't want to do paperwork. It sucks that any of this is a reality in our Army, but it is.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Aug 13 at 2014 4:18 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:18:54 -0400

SGT,

Depends on what you mean by your statement. If you are truly 'slacking off' then no I don't think you should be promoted; however, making points for an MOS that requires significant effort to obtain isn't really seen as slacking. So are you talking about MOS' with low points and soldiers making the cut? In my circumstance, my promotion points are at 14 and I have almost 500 points, but my unit refuses to send me to a promotion board and refuses to put a justification in writing (counseling statement). According to Army promotion statistics the average promotion points for soldiers selected for SSG in my MOS is around 350. I would think that from an outside perspective without even viewing my ERB or knowing my leadership competencies, you could look at these trends and my points and reasonably assume that I am not a slacker. I know soldiers getting promoted all the time with the bare minimum in point accumulation. The reason this happens is because Army leadership cares about their personal perspective of a soldier over that soldiers actual competencies. My opinion is that I am not going to the promotion board because I stick my neck out for what is right on a frequent and consistent basis. My senior leadership (not my direct chain of command) have determined that makes me a trouble-maker for them and is putting a stop on by chain of command's recommendation. My point is that a soldier may not be afforded the opportunity by his leadership to go to the promotion board. What you may see as slacking may be resentment from a constant battle of trying to get to the board with severe backlash. Not saying this is always the case, but it certainly seems that way in my situation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 4:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:27:15 -0400

Let's just clear up the fact that there is no such monster as an "automatic" promotion. A commander at the company level signs off saying to integrate Soldiers into the "Command list Integration" promotion. So while they don't attend a board, the PSG and 1SG (ideally) agree to let them be put on that list. The commander then authorizes it with his signature.

Lazy leadership that don't want to counsel Soldiers is a big contributor to some of the slackers getting on this list. The leaders are lazy and don't want to counsel, and they figure the Soldier won't make cut off anyways because the very low points and inability to add points until actually boarded.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:54 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:54:51 -0400

Auto promotion just took a leap forward as I just seen about 10 Soldiers get promoted with out going to a promotion board. In the Army Reserve you get put on the pprl with 39 points an if there is a vacancy with in 50 miles they get promoted. So this could have good an bad points as SGT Achenbach pointed out (swelled heads). The silver lining that is coming is now you have to have SSD and your NCOES (ie WLC, ALC and SLC) completed starting in January. I have only been asking for this for about 10 years. So if you are on the PPRL you might want to get to you PME prior to January 2016. Now I'm sure this will help the auto promotions as those on the pprl list that don't have the proper PME will be passed over. Good luck to you all!!!!

Response by SSG Katherine Likely made Sep 19 at 2015 8:42 AM

SSG Katherine Likely — Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:42:17 -0400

no one likes a "slacker" - so my question would need to be - what were they like before the promotion? If they were on top of things before then possibly they are in a slump. How to get them out - don't know. But, if you observe it - so will brass, hopefully with out having to point it out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 10:48 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:48:27 -0400

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 4:23 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 04:23:39 -0400

You've identified what you feel is a problem. However being that there are leaders who make those decisions based on their evaluation of the Soldier, is not your choice to make. However providing the outstanding leadership, teaching, coaching, and mentoring, you have the capability to prevent toxic leadership from developing through the Soldiers or section that you lead. Understand you can't stop all... And understand that top leaders don't always know that some leaders serving under them are or may be toxic. All they know is... Every time I give this NCO a task, he or she lead, developed, and achieved every time. So in their eyes, they work hard, and they are a dependable asset to the organization. It's blinding at times, but don't let your emotions get in the way of this business. Continue to educate yourself, apply your knowledge, network for growth, and develop productively at all times.

Response by CAPT Dave Woodard made Dec 23 at 2016 1:44 PM

CAPT Dave Woodard — Fri, 23 Dec 2016 13:44:57 -0500

Automatic promotions are really rare in the Naval Service, but I recall a situation where a young S-3 office was standing in my office and "discussing" how a newly promoted MSG (Marine Corps) could have been promoted given that he was a slacker, lazy, etc. and my comment back to him was. You sir, among others, gave him glowing fitness marks in all fields, and now you have to live with the fire you have built. If there is a honest, and valid process of "fitness marks - not sure of the USA, USAF term), no one unqualified for any reason, should be promoted as they would have been screened out. Then again, in the Navy all promotions are examination based, with fitness marks added into the final score.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2017 11:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Sep 2017 11:05:10 -0400

Usually your leadership won't send you if they do not think you are ready. Given this I do have mixed feelings on the issue.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 23 at 2018 11:20 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:20:42 -0500

Not just no, but hell no. I don't believe in automatic any grade. All grades should be earned.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2018 11:23 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:23:47 -0500

Should a slacker get promoted? NO. Demoted maybe.

Response by SSG Jason Cooley made Feb 24 at 2020 6:45 AM

SSG Jason Cooley — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 06:45:26 -0500

WOW our army has changed .....I served from 1987-2010 so you might call me old fashioned ...but the last few years of my service I was surprised about the lack of leadership training my follow NCO'S got in the Schools and there peers.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made May 29 at 2023 8:31 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Mon, 29 May 2023 20:31:42 -0400

There should never be a promotion based on points. Experience, time, dedication and how you carry yourself matter more than points.