Should there be an Extended pay scale for Enlisted Personnel who have completed College Degrees (Bachelors, Masters, Etc.)?

2018-08-31T10:06:51-04:00

I've had this discussion with some of my office mates and wanted to pose it to the community at large. There are a lot of Enlisted personnel who want to pursue higher education or already have a degree but don't want to commission. Some younger Service Members are very Reward Motivated so they look at it as why should they further their education if they don't plan on Commissioning or going Warrant if there aren't any incentives for them if they stay enlisted. When looking at the Pay Scales a newly minted 2LT will make what an E7 with 8 years experience makes (Exact numbers unknown at this time, will research later). On the other hand you have Enlisted who obtain Degrees to further their Civilian careers while in the Guard or for when they leave Active Duty service but still feel shorted by the Service for putting in the extra effort to earn a Degree.

What are your thoughts? If there were an extended pay scale would it motivate you to obtain a degree or do you think it would help overall morale and retention?

Response by 1SG Timothy Trewin made Aug 31 at 2018 10:20 AM

2018-08-31T10:20:11-04:00

I do think it is an interesting concept. It would possibly create more incentive to try and get a degree. Although it helps with promotion now, it is not a make or break thing for promotion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 10:27 AM

2018-08-31T10:27:29-04:00

As an enlisted soldier who has a BA and will graduate with my masters in May, it would be nice. However, I think the degree must contribute to either the soldiers MOS or they Army as a whole. I don’t think a degree is underwater basket weaving should count for anything.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Aug 31 at 2018 10:40 AM

2018-08-31T10:40:45-04:00

no college is option

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Aug 31 at 2018 10:46 AM

2018-08-31T10:46:26-04:00

In most (All?) branches of the Service a degree contributes to promotion, which is ample "reward". A degree is not a defined requirement of the job, so an extended pay scale would be inappropriate. Additionally, how do you judge the value of the degree? Is a bachelors from a for-profit online diploma mill worth the same as an undergrad degree from MIT?

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Aug 31 at 2018 10:54 AM

2018-08-31T10:54:31-04:00

I think the concept of the commissioned officer is outdated. Historically you had commissioned officers because they could read and write. It was assumed that their education would make them more humane, logical and ethical. It was conversely assumed that enlisted service members lacked the ability to make sound decisions and conduct themselves ethically without the supervision of gentlemen officers.
I think a better model would be to grow our own. Expand enlisted commissioning programs and pull the best and brightest out of the enlisted ranks at an early age, send them to attain a relevant education and commission them.
If a recent or soon to be college graduate is interested, let them enlist and see if they make the cut to be selected.
If all commissioned officers had to serve a minimum of 1 year as an enlisted service member it would completely change the way young SMs are viewed by officers.

Response by SMSgt Keith Klug made Aug 31 at 2018 11:05 AM

2018-08-31T11:05:55-04:00

No. If you get your degree, become an officer that is the extended pay. What comes next, more money for two bachelor degrees, two masters, two PhDs???

Response by Sgt Donald Chalfy made Aug 31 at 2018 11:06 AM

2018-08-31T11:06:33-04:00

I have to disagree here. I don’t believe enlisted personnel should receive any more pay than what they are entitled to just because they have a bachelors or masters degree. Why should they? Good on them for their achievement that will help in the service and afterwards. It is also good that it may help with promotions, and there is also the possibility of becoming an officer, which is an excellent opportunity. The pay scale for and officer who was prior enlisted (OE 1-?) is higher that an officer straight out of OCS to begin with. I served with several Marines who received there BA or BS degrees, and one who even had his Masters degree. They chose the path they chose.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Aug 31 at 2018 11:19 AM

2018-08-31T11:19:57-04:00

An interesting question, but there are some problems with this. The main issue I can see is a question of opportunity. Someone who is in a line platoon with a combat arms unit will typically have far less opportunity to attend classes than someone working in the post finance office. How would it be fair that the soldier who has the ability to attend classes get both higher pay while in and the points for promotion that an education gives? I'm all for them getting the promotion points as they earned it, but an E4 is an E4 regardless of how much formal education they have. I spent 9 years as an active duty combat engineer and in that time I was only able to take 4 classes. My sister who has a desk job in the navy, was able to earn a bachelor's degree while in the navy. With the massive disparity between the working conditions of jobs, it would create a schism between them.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 31 at 2018 11:39 AM

2018-08-31T11:39:04-04:00

No. The second something like this happens, folks will go around looking for additional reasons to say what they got merits a pay bump, and when it doesn’t match what they think it’s worth, the Army as a whole would suffer. Senior leaders would be forced to choose what’s relevant and what’s not. It never ends well.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 31 at 2018 11:56 AM

2018-08-31T11:56:32-04:00

No, the government pays for a good chunk for your education, should they have to pay you to do it as well? IMHO no this should not be an incentive.

Response by TSgt David Holman made Aug 31 at 2018 12:09 PM

2018-08-31T12:09:56-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member you answered your own question with this quote "On the other hand you have Enlisted who obtain Degrees to further their civilian carrers while in the Guard or for when they leave Active Duty"... why would I pay you more because you educated yourself to do something that isn't for me?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 31 at 2018 2:20 PM

2018-08-31T14:20:58-04:00

Your degree does not make you a better Soldier, nor is it required for most Enlisted positions in the Army. In fact the fields that do have college involved generally offer bonuses. I earned a couple of degrees as did most or all of my fellow CSM’s. However I will say that none of my peers used their degrees in service, many did use them to find work after the life. The soft skills that are advanced through college are already integrated in Army programs. More money always helps with moral and retention. Instead of a separate scale, which is unwarranted, how about asking for the entire scale to take a large bump giving Soldiers what they deserve. I am rambling, you set me back with your comment about office mates, not many 11B working in offices. Thank you for your service.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 4:57 PM

2018-08-31T16:57:38-04:00

If the degree improves performance then the person may be promoted sooner. If not what good is the degree?

I am reminded of a high school teacher who was asked about what he thought about the degrees and the increased pay for having a master's degree. He said "I think there are too many degrees and not enough masters."

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 31 at 2018 6:17 PM

2018-08-31T18:17:38-04:00

USAF requires a Associates for progression to senior NCO.

The other services require various Professional Military Education (PME)

Generally speaking we use the "Tradesmen" paradigm on the Enlisted side going from Apprentice (Junior Enlisted) to Journeymen (NCO) to Masters (Senior NCO) within our Craft (Warfighting). Depending on that Craft, that may require a mix of PME or ACE College Credits which the service provides. It does not necessarily require a college degree.

The officer side requires a degree for "Entry Level" (apprentice) but they are operating on a different paradigm (Management track) which is more akin to Office Professional than Tradesman.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 31 at 2018 9:08 PM

2018-08-31T21:08:47-04:00

So you want them to pay for your degree..AND pay you more just for having it?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 9:12 PM

2018-08-31T21:12:08-04:00

An aspect to consider regarding rank and pay is not what the person does, but rather what he/she is responsible for. As a second lieutenant, he/she inherits the responsibility for an entire platoon's worth of equipment as well as the lives, personal/professional growth, etc. As enlisted Soldiers with undergraduate/graduate degrees you are given opportunities to grow and typically are promoted ahead of peers and are looked at for warrant and commissioned officer promotions. Remember, we're paid for our responsibilities and potential.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 31 at 2018 10:19 PM

2018-08-31T22:19:47-04:00

Just when with the OPTEMPO of the spearpoint units do you plan for folks to get a degree? One of my BN's set a record in the 82nd Abn Div for being in the field 271 days in 1 yr. When you try for E7-E9 it is helpful to have at least some college. Officers spend 4 + yrs getting a degree, enlisted don't get 4 straight years of setting around in college. Did they join the Service to serve the Nation or themselves?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 11:35 PM

2018-08-31T23:35:12-04:00

The Army doesn't pay anyone more for education alone.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Sep 2 at 2018 9:38 AM

2018-09-02T09:38:04-04:00

So, you all now want the government to pay for your degree, then when you get it, pay you more for getting it. Seems a little one sided to me but that is just me. I think some of you may be walking right past the value and purpose of the armed forces offering you the magnificent benefit of the GI Bill.

If the degree is useful to the armed forces it will advance your rank or you can go the commission route. If not, you can separate and use the degree the armed forces paid for to build a civilian career.

We don't need to create more classes of people in the armed forces, enlisted and officer/warrant officer (and even divisions inside of those) is probably enough.

Not all degrees are even equal or useful. Do we pay someone more for a history degree when their job does not require it? Do we pay more for Ivy league degrees than perhaps state schools or community colleges?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2018 9:58 PM

2018-09-02T21:58:13-04:00

No because most degrees service members get are completely useless like music, English and sociology. You wouldn’t believe the amount of people that have these degrees.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2018 9:51 PM

2018-09-10T21:51:14-04:00

I think it's an interesting idea, however, it's my choice to stay enlisted with all the other choices I make or have made, and I'm just happy that the military will provide me the opportunity for an all paid college education. We know what we've signed up for; if one wants to make more money, than there are other avenues of approach we must take.

Response by Stephen R Mills made Sep 13 at 2018 8:16 AM

2018-09-13T08:16:24-04:00

Pay is based upon the value of or contributiveness from a person toward the mission(s) and development of the organization to be great. Pay or compensation forms of reward are also based upon the risks taken while devoted to the success of the mission(s) when "other oriented."
"Higher education" is compensated only because it can contribute to the productivity, the relationships that create human synergies, and the development of organizations (Corps) that create value to others and society.

Ranks and grade levels are positions granted because the person hired to the rank has promise to make something extraordinary happen aligned with the purpose of the Corps.

Moving through ranks is made possible to benefit the Corps and mission by unfettering the skills, attributes, abilities and talents. Some who produce or build relationships of higher productivity shift their intention or focus to growing the organization and its value to the greater society, customer, or human need.

As many pundits of human development state, "Leadership is influence." Leaders can be developed. Great leaders, (people of greater influence) can be grown and become influential far beyond their rank.

Rewarding people for productivity and growing others to become their best selves, and fostering a flourishing Corps deserves greater compensation, whether the rank or title is modest or lofty.

College or university experience and degrees do not guarantee (of themselves) that any of the above promise unleashes to productivity, organizational synergies or groups that make meaningful actions happen.

Degrees ought not create a pay raise or job grade jump. What individuals do with their learning and gathered insight is what ought to be rewarded, no matter the title or grade, rank or post.

Response by MSgt Horace Smith made Sep 14 at 2018 1:59 AM

2018-09-14T01:59:38-04:00

Does the enlisted person with a degree have one iota of greater responsibility than the person of the same rank who doesn't have a degree? A degree is no guarantee that the person will do a better job than another who has dedicated themselves to their career. Then there's the question of establishing the value of the degree; i.e., is a Liberal Arts degree worth as much as an Engineering degree? Reward and promotion should be given for superior performance, not because a person possesses a degree that may or may not be worth the paper it's printed on. IMO, the answer is clearly "no".

Response by 1stSgt Nelson Kerr made Sep 16 at 2018 7:35 PM

2018-09-16T19:35:33-04:00

You are paid for your responsiblities, a degree does not change those.

Response by Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. made Sep 18 at 2018 1:12 PM

2018-09-18T13:12:55-04:00

Upon attainment of a college diploma from a Class I o II school, the enlisted individual should apply to become an Officer in his/her branch of service.

Response by SPC Steve Oxley made Sep 18 at 2018 9:46 PM

2018-09-18T21:46:35-04:00

Some people can get educated beyond their intelligence and what does that prove.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2018 9:50 AM

2018-09-21T09:50:23-04:00

It's really no different than people in civilian occupations. In most companies people who earn a degree aren't normally rewarded with more pay unless they switch jobs or switch companies.

I earned my undergraduate degree at night because I wanted to get a degree. It was only until I was about a year out from finishing that I realized maybe I should apply for commissioning. I had 11 years in when I graduated and was accepted into the officer commissioning program. I would have earned the degree regardless.

Some say they don't want to get a commision. That's ok as that is their right and their choice.

Response by Sgt Diane Howard made Sep 22 at 2018 11:14 PM

2018-09-22T23:14:07-04:00

Feeling cynical. No extra pay for college. The military has already sent one to school, taught one a trade, and most likely given one half or more of an Associate's Degree while paying the enlistee.
If someone feels shorted for earning a degree, that person doesn't need to be in the military. Or be earning a degree. Go back to diapers and mama's milk.
The military paid for the degree, right? At least in part? What's with all the "hand me everything on a plate, and give me extra gold stars" attitude? Should the military stop paying for all continued education, or charge for military education? If you take the cost of education and compare it to the various programs -- GI Bills, Tuition Assistance, tutorial assistance, work-study, loan repayment, etc. -- they are already getting "paid." If that stuff all came out of their own pocket, would they even be able to afford a degree?

Response by MSgt Joe Marcom made Sep 23 at 2018 4:59 PM

2018-09-23T16:59:13-04:00

IMO, the degree itself is ample reward; and remember, you won't be in the service forever, and not all career fields translate directly to a civilian counterpart. I earned my BS in a health-care field much too late for a commission, but it came in handy for many years after retirement.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2018 2:42 AM

2018-09-24T02:42:07-04:00

I don't understand how they feel shorted for putting in the extra effort for getting a degree. They should be pursing the degree for personal attainment; to better themselves. In my opinion, if they get a degree while in the military, they can never be shorted because they didn't have to pay for it, they are bettering themselves, and it will help them promote quicker/prepare them for civilian life.

An E7 with 8 plus years makes close to 700 dollars more than a newly pinned 2LT. Looking at the pay chart for comparison in role, responsibility, etc, the pay starts to favor the officer at the company level (O3 vs. E8). Really the O2 level with 3 plus years is where the gap with senior enlisted and officers begins.

I am on the fence about whether enlisted should get paid more if they have a degree. The greater part of me say no because if you have a degree and want to make more, become an officer or even a warrant officer. On the flip side, I can see it as an incentive to retain quality Soldiers with degrees. With that being said, I am more for closing the gap between senior enlisted and officers (E6-E8).

What I would really like to see is enlisted have more opportunities to complete their degrees while on active duty. Such as when MAJs go to ILE and so on.

Just some food for though:

https://www.ausa.org/news/606b-army-budget-personnel-costs

$60.6B in Army Budget for Personnel Costs

The 2019 Army budget seeks the biggest pay raise in almost a decade and assumes troops will also get an average 3.4 percent increase in subsistence allowances and a 2.9 percent average increase in their housing allowance.

Response by SGT Mark Moen made Sep 26 at 2018 1:30 PM

2018-09-26T13:30:42-04:00

17 years in Army; active, reserve and guard, attended OCS and educated, not a good idea, will infect Esprit De Corp and will damage order and discipline. We are one force, pay by rank is tradition you earn the rank, if college is considered but and has more weight than actual military ability that may prove bad. In reserves in civilian life I made more than most Captains and Majors, my pay should not super cede my required obedience under orders.

Response by SGT Mark Moen made Sep 26 at 2018 1:34 PM

2018-09-26T13:34:52-04:00

Furthermore by specialty or job need there are bonuses for the ambitious to seek those MOS, but pay grade is pay grade.

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Sep 30 at 2018 9:47 PM

2018-09-30T21:47:24-04:00

No. A degree will make you more competitive for promotion. Extra pay for a degree? Nope. That new 2LT gets paid more, but it's his or her ass on the blame line. I've seen more than one officer relieved for cause.

Response by Maj John Johnston made Oct 1 at 2018 7:19 PM

2018-10-01T19:19:04-04:00

I am a former enlisted person (SSgt), who was a Chief Warrant Officer, LDO, and Commissioned Officer before I retired. I had three hours of college when I was selected for WO. I retired as a Field Grade Officer with a BS, MS, and graduated from Marine Corps Command and Staff College. I have been a member of a promotion board, therefore have some insights into the topic. It shows great initiative for "some" who have gained degrees as enlistees. A degree (s) may be considered on a promotion board, along with any other positive information, about the initiative that the person being considered for promotion has. If all enlisted personnel had equal opportunity to pursue a degree, then adding a little pay for attaining one would be plausible. However, it is not equal opportunity for all enlisted members to attain degrees. Many MOS's are so intensive, work-wise, that it is very difficult to do, if not impossible. Some are deployed aboard ships and/or have chaotic training schedules, or actual operations that preclude getting a degree. Sure, some ships have college, but operations dictate the person's priorities. If one is in an administrative type MOS, on a base, near a college, or just has a schedule that allows for taking college, good for them. In reality, getting a degree should be much simpler for them than the grunt who is in and out of the field all the time, being on a deployment work-up, or on an operation. Something else to consider is whether the enlistee is married or single. Many enlistees have families that do not see them enough, given the operational tempo and demands of the job they hold. Insinuating that a degree is required, may get you more money, or that it necessarily will give one a better chance for promotion, as an enlisted person, is really not fair. If an enlistee wants to become an officer, then obviously, they most likely must attain the degree and spend the time to do so. Otherwise, a very professionally skilled enlisted person will always trump the enlistee who has an arm load of diplomas. It says a whole lot about professionalism, already, when an enlistee is rated top notch in all the reportable areas required on a fitness report. No amount of college will compensate otherwise. To require, or otherwise give enlisted personnel, more hoops to jump through for promotion, is simply unfair to many. Performance is always the bottom line. Consequently, superb performance generally results in promotions, and promotions result in higher pay. Give me a squad of men with average intelligence, but having great job performance skills, leadership, initiative, integrity, courage, responsibility, commitment and loyalty, any day, over one filled with college grads. That is a simple choice.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Oct 2 at 2018 9:59 PM

2018-10-02T21:59:26-04:00

NO: you want more pay, become an Osiffer that receives "Pro-Pay"

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2018 10:28 AM

2018-10-04T10:28:59-04:00

Actually an E7 with over 8 years of service makes more than a 2LT. just look at the basic pay charts, it shows an E7 with over 8 years makes about 3,800 and O1 with 2 years or less makes about 3,100.

Response by LTC Chad Uhl made Oct 4 at 2018 3:46 PM

2018-10-04T15:46:36-04:00

Why limit this to Enlisted ranks? If a commissioned officer gets a masters or doctoral degree, should they get more pay. My thoughts on both are no, they military already pays for decent portions of these things.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2018 6:38 PM

2018-10-07T18:38:14-04:00

Absolutely not. We place too much focus on our people do things that aren't job related to be competitive for advancement. These things take focus off the mission.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Oct 14 at 2018 6:56 PM

2018-10-14T18:56:12-04:00

Simply my opinion... but it looks like others agree. The question was posed as it pertains to enlisted personnel. The armed forces do not have special pay for officers with degrees higher than their commissioning requirements, so why would it pertain to enlisted personnel? Earning college degrees, while looking nice on paper, do not make you a better machine gunner, or mess specialist. Offering more pay to someone with an IT degree to someone that works in data communications, is unfair to someone who is a machine gunner, and has a degree in liberal arts. One of the great equalizers that the military offers American society, is that everyone can get in, with basic requirements, and excel as their military careers flourish. The degree is part of the flourish. If you want to be rewarded with more pay - earn that promotion, or apply for the warrant officer program or one of several commissioning programs. Or execute your end date and make the big bucks somewhere else. The military already rewards you twice a month. This very concept is borderline insane. I never heard of anyone joining the military for the money. Just my opinion.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Oct 19 at 2018 8:06 AM

2018-10-19T08:06:25-04:00

No not every soldier is in a unit were they can go to college. Just get out and get a civilian job if you think your better then anyone else in the force.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Oct 19 at 2018 7:26 PM

2018-10-19T19:26:18-04:00

Realistically, just what bang for the buck is the government getting for the degree in question? For example, as a Senior Chief Engineman, what benefit does a BA or and MA in business management or any other field for that matter bring for my skills as an Engineman? I'm all for higher education mind you, I earned a BA in Computer Information Systems after I retired and it paid handsomely but I can't point to anything I learned in College that would have made me a better Senior Chief. Looking at the broad spectrum of Navy ratings, I see few that would realistically be enhanced by a college degree either, one cannot apply business or financial management education to a military accounting system or a CIS degree to the work a Crypto does... If one is hot to pursue higher education I would suggest that one should be looking at shooting for an Officer billet. As to the notion that a reservist should be paid more on their military job because they pursued a degree to apply to their civilian job, again, what possible benefit is an advanced degree to the military for an enlisted specialty?

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2018 6:43 PM

2018-10-20T18:43:24-04:00

Honestly, if the enlisted member goes to the trouble to get an advanced degree, then theemner should apply for OCS/OTS. Enlisted members, by definition, are technically-based. Technical Training does not require a Bachelors degree or better. Appy for officer training, there's you bonus.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2018 3:59 PM

2018-10-25T15:59:01-04:00

This would bankrupt the Guard. I'd wager at least 1/3 of the enlisted has a degree.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Nov 4 at 2018 11:52 AM

2018-11-04T11:52:32-05:00

I can't think of anything that is more unfair to the Soldier then this, When I went to Korea as a Sergeant, it was my plan to come back with a degree but being assigned as Assistant to the NCOIC of S-3 that went out the window.Then when I went down range to Iraq I was assigned as NCOIC of night operations. The ones that get those degrees are the ones working in S1 or Company clerks the rest of us have to work long hours. So until the Military affords everyone equal time to learn, it would be unfair to those that try and can't get the approval through the Chain of Command due to duty requirements.

Response by MSG Carolyn Hunter-Drake made Nov 4 at 2018 7:35 PM

2018-11-04T19:35:09-05:00

You are being paid, while completing that Degree, and while not all, some service member are in there on a "Bonus" anyway. That is part of the points towards your promotion. You will be paid, once you are promoted to the next rank. The "extra effort" you claim should be motivation and a personal best for your future, not an "atta boy" award.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2018 8:09 PM

2018-11-06T20:09:10-05:00

Terrible idea. It is a rare indeed for your average Sailor to be able to complete a degree while on sea duty...not enough time in the day, inconsistent or non-existent bandwidth, not enough computers, etc. If degrees automatically led to higher pay we would in practice be penalizing those at the tip of the spear who do not have extended time ashore on some cushy base. The emphasis for our NCO community should be warfighting prowess, leadership ability, and technical competency.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Nov 11 at 2018 7:30 PM

2018-11-11T19:30:03-05:00

I say no, there should be no extra pay incentives for higher education. Actually there already is one, it’s called OCS and become an officer.

While some MOS’s have the luxury of college online or classes, I for one know that my Infantry unit did not have the time to allow us to commit to such. Therefore it’s a little unfair for the entire Army.

I personally feel that these new Soldiers need to stop re-eventing the wheel. The Army pays you to do a single job. Focus more of your time reading up on FM’s, AR’s and DA Pam’s and worry less about your own personal agenda. If anything The entire military needs pay raises not just omes with college.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2018 10:13 PM

2018-11-12T22:13:38-05:00

The Army already does by initially rewarding initial recruits with the SPC rank, but from there they must earn NCO with their merit. Yet, from personal experience and personal mistakes, a degree guarantees neither leadership abilities nor MOS capability. I do not recommend paying people more for mere knowledge over substance.

Response by SGT Ken R made Jan 29 at 2019 8:21 PM

2019-01-29T20:21:29-05:00

I have nothing against college. It is a personal choice. What I did hate was the fact that many soldiers got out of work early to go to class while the rest of them had to work harder to pick up the slack. Often times the ones who stayed back were FAR superior soldiers and come promotion time they were passed over while the duds and professional students advanced. One particular example was a Spc named Meckler who was basically our motor sgt because our motor sgt was camped out in classes 4 days a week. The motor sgt made E7 because of Mecklers hard work in his absence...

Response by MSgt James Lindsey made Feb 13 at 2019 7:23 PM

2019-02-13T19:23:53-05:00

This is a good question. After retiring from the military I was able to use my B.A.. I was able to join the Sheriff's office, they had an education off set. It was 200 a month. The military could do the same but, the cost would be difficult in this current political environment. Just know your hard work will pay off.

Response by SGT Jim Wiseman made Jul 29 at 2019 9:33 PM

2019-07-29T21:33:28-04:00

With the military heading toward the requirement of even senior NCO's having degrees in order to advance above a certain grade, that is becoming a necessity for staying in service beyond a certain point anyway. Not having a degree of any kind, I certainly see the value of it, but having be a requirement, most especially for NCO's. Up until about 2009 or 2010, you could become an officer while working TOWARD a degree. They took that away and said you needed a degree in order to transition to or come in as an officer. On the bitter side (I will admit), the trend of society in general that you must have gone through four years of schooling to earn a piece of paper that says you have anything worth knowing is ridiculous! I guarantee my GT score is higher than many of the individuals who stuck it out and got mediocre grades, earned a degree and are considered by some to be more knowledgeable and valuable. All branches of service used to be more merit based, making observations of individuals and gauging them by what was seen and experienced. Knowledge can be passed on, not just in a classroom. The service and indeed our society need go back to testing individuals to see if they have potential and then give them the ability to advance. A degree is not a bad thing, it should not be THE defining thing in determining ability and potential.