Should there be prior Enlisted insignia for Commissioned Officers?

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:04:33 -0500

Such as a ribbon on Dress Uniform

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Feb 23 at 2016 1:06 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:06:30 -0500

I don't think it's necessary. Your Good Conduct Medal already serves that purpose.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 23 at 2016 1:07 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:07:18 -0500

We don't need that discriminator. Let all officers be graded on performance.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:09:41 -0500

Really? Just like the prior service Marines want to be recognized. Just make your choices and be proud of your current status. Be competent and know your job. Then you don't have to prove anything to anyone. They will know without a shiny pin on your uniform.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Feb 23 at 2016 1:14 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:14:23 -0500

Not at all! For the most part the Good Conduct Medal ( with knots) and the NCOPD Ribbon with numbers as they might apply suffice for that purpose. Only a few instance a prior service officer wouldn't have any of the aforementioned decorations and this few are Soldiers who contract under an OCS option. In other words they go from Basic Training to OCS without any time serving as junior enlisted soldiers but the few weeks in transit.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:14 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:14:29 -0500

From my limited point of view, my opinion is this: SOME NCOs view SOME officers as inexperienced, and a designator confirming that an officer has experience might help ease the process of a new officer coming into a unit. With that being said, the discrimination shouldn't exist to begin with, and it also would single out the officers who might have great potential/leadership skills with no prior enlisted experience.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Feb 23 at 2016 1:16 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:16:37 -0500

I'm prior enlisted... and "No, you don't need that." If you have to depend on bling to get people to respect you, you aren't worth your salt. The GCM on your chest should tell everyone that you were prior enlisted.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 23 at 2016 1:26 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:26:49 -0500

Other than the Good Conduct Medal?

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Feb 23 at 2016 1:28 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:28:26 -0500

A few thoughts/questions regarding if there should be prior enlisted insignia for commissioned officers:
- What problem are we trying to solve here?
- How would making a prior enlisted insignia for commissioned officers solve that problem?
- Is this a solution looking for a problem?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:29 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:29:39 -0500

There are enough ribbons for the Army.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:32 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:32:55 -0500

I for one do not need any more chest candy - and I'm not a big advocate of distinguishing the officer corps in such a manner. Leaders will distinguish themselves - regardless of their past experience.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:42:23 -0500

Most people figure out that I'm prior service after talking to me for 5 minutes. A ribbon is just one more thing I have to buy and adjust on my uniform. There's also an identifier on my ORB.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Feb 23 at 2016 1:46 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:46:19 -0500

many times i've been able to tell if the officer was prior enlisted -- for example, seeing a Good Conduct Medal or a marksmanship badge

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:47 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:47:02 -0500

If you know what you are looking for you can tell. I have an NCOPD ribbon and an Army good conduct medal. It would reflect that I was an NCO. But the maturity of the person is what really should show more than anything else.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:53 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:53:46 -0500

As stated there is already one. As Col Potter in MASH said.

See that that is the good conduct medal. Officers don't get that only enlisted do.

In OTS I had an upperclassman say he was going to write me up because I had the AF good conduct ribbon with an oak leaf. He claimed that was not possible. I told him to write away because I would produce orders to his superiors.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Feb 23 at 2016 1:55 PM

SSG Don Maggart — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:55:50 -0500

No the Prior enlisted have passed on , But they carry on the knowledge learned ...MilitantCrip

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 2:36 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 14:36:59 -0500

No, I don't think it's necessary. I'm a former NCO who may be heading back into the Army as an officer in the fall. I already have the pay bump and ribbon rack to show my PS. I can see why you may ask this though. Having something like this could serve to show that you have some experience and that you're not a "fresh" LT. I know some people think former enlisted make the best officers, but I don't think this is necessarily true. I spent a lot of time in the TOC working closely with officers and I think being enlisted (even as an NCO) is requires an entirely different (not necessarily better) skill set and often a different management approach. I think someone who was a garbage soldier while enlisted will continue to be garbage if they somehow get a commission. Come to think of it the best and worst commanders I ever had were both former enlisted.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 2:54 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 14:54:21 -0500

I already have an insignia that shows I was prior enlisted. It's a silver bar with two square dots in the center of it...hopefully in five months I'll get to add another one.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Feb 23 at 2016 2:55 PM

Capt Walter Miller — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 14:55:39 -0500

No. Not necessary. Most PS officers have ribbons so that anyone can tell at a glance they are former enlisted any way.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 23 at 2016 3:29 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 15:29:55 -0500

Just because you were enlisted prior to commissioning doesn't mean you are going to be successful as an officer. And quite frankly, no one is really going to care much past 1LT, as the experience/maturity gap tends to even out at CPT. And as other have said, in full dress, your GCM and other prior service awards and badges are going to stand you out (at least initially) among non-prior service peers.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 3:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 15:30:39 -0500

You mean like wearing their last enlisted rank on their collars with the officer velcro rank on the chest?

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Feb 23 at 2016 3:31 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 15:31:28 -0500

Is there anything that somebody doesn't want a medal for?

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Feb 23 at 2016 4:42 PM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 16:42:22 -0500

Officers who were enlisted often wear their good conduct ribbon if they were served for 3 years as an enlisted ..

Response by LTC Ed Ross made Feb 23 at 2016 5:17 PM

LTC Ed Ross — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 17:17:32 -0500

There is one, it's called the Good Conduct medal. They aren't given to officers.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 7:03 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 19:03:00 -0500

I have thousands (I think), they are called Gray Hairs.

Response by MAJ Philip Crabtree made Feb 23 at 2016 10:05 PM

MAJ Philip Crabtree — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 22:05:57 -0500

I have one. It's called the NCO Professional Development Ribbon.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 23 at 2016 11:24 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 23:24:48 -0500

NOOOOO. There already is... I have a Good Conduct Medal, and a NCOES ribbon.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 3:24 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 03:24:19 -0500

I'd like to "respond to the responses," if you will, first. BLUF: Not all prior enlisted have a GCM, through no fault of their own. As many of my comments on RP show, I often point out subtle difference between the active Services, and the Guard and Reserve to keep things in perspective. Only reserve component soldiers who have deployed, or been active duty at some point, will have a GCM. The Army Reserve Component Achievement Medal is supposed to be awarded to those soldiers who have never been active in lieu of a GCM. Unfortunately, many reserve component units don't keep up with "automatic awards." Better things to do in the limited time afforded to them.

Now, to the meat and potatoes. What purpose does such indication serve? I think the subtle inference here is that officers who have been enlisted are by nature better. Why else should they need such recognition? They have more experience, yes. VALUABLE experience I agree. However, I'd like to draw attention to the fact that it IS recognized in their PAY GRADE. O-1E, etc. They are also paid slightly more than their peers at the beginning of their careers. This is commensurate with any civilian job rewarding an employee with more experience a higher rate of pay--or a higher position based on skill set in the cases of Doctors, Lawyers, etc. The experience that an O-1E has will show, and his soldiers will respect him for his knowledge, experience, and occasional humility. What doesn't matter, is where the experience came from.

The problem with the line of thought that officers who have enlisted experience are better than those who haven't, is that it degrades the very nature of being an officer. It puts enlisted experience on a pedestal, and creates a breakdown in discipline. Officers are Officers....end of story. No matter what kind of person they are, or what their education or experience says about them, the military has placed a trust in them to lead enlisted soldiers and the officers under their command. "A Commanding Officer is a mighty and terrible thing, a man to be feared and respected." --Chief, U-571. Putting their prior experience out for the world to see, undermines the principles that they are IN CHARGE, and WHAT THEY SAY GOES (within the limits of UCMJ, Geneva and Hague Conventions, yada yada).

It doesn't matter where they have been. What matters is where they have been placed.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 6:55 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 06:55:31 -0500

God no, theres enough bias against us already from the "pure" officers. Yes I sound cynical, probably due to my current situation.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 8:09 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 08:09:13 -0500

I agree with the comments posted. Prior enlisted service doesn't equal success as an officer. The two roles are very different. As for the ribbon, they are called the good conduct medal or NCOPD Ribbons, officer don't earn either one. If you are prior enlisted and didn't earn a GCM or NCOPD ribbon, I wouldn't consider you prior enlisted.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 9:28 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 09:28:57 -0500

Sure it's called a good conduct medal. Anyway regardless of whether they where in prior or not they are now the rank they have. They have chosen to join that set of ranks. If a person was enlisted for a long period of time people will know based of the service stripes on the dress uniform. That is if you are in the army.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Feb 24 at 2016 11:44 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:44:35 -0500

Most prior enlisted have a GCM. That tells the whole story. In my case, I wasn't enlisted long enough, but that's the exception rather than the rule...

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Feb 24 at 2016 12:27 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 12:27:47 -0500

Should be could not care less. There is one now, it is called the CGM.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 9:27 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:27:48 -0500

There already is! The good conduct medal

Response by BG Mike Bridges made Feb 25 at 2016 12:34 AM

BG Mike Bridges — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 00:34:22 -0500

My Honorable Discharge as Sergeant is one of my most prized military documents. Issued upon discharge and commissioning.

Response by BG Mike Bridges made Feb 25 at 2016 12:35 AM

BG Mike Bridges — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 00:35:32 -0500

My Honorable Discharge as Sergeant is sufficient, and one of my most prized Service possessions.

Response by SP5 Joel O'Brien made Feb 25 at 2016 11:42 AM

SP5 Joel O'Brien — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:42:00 -0500

Wouldn't this be like wearing your "Tenderfoot" badge along side of your "Eagle Scout" award?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2016 2:01 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 14:01:21 -0500

AF gives a device for the basic training ribbon, but the Good Conduct Medal should work

Response by MAJ Will Sullivan made Feb 26 at 2016 11:27 AM

MAJ Will Sullivan — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:27:39 -0500

Being prior enlisted I would have to say no. Like others have said before me the GCMs serve that purpose.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2016 1:46 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:46:57 -0500

If you were the enlisted Soldier that you "should" have been. It will show through in your everyday actions. In uniform or not you can almost immediately identify if an officer has any significant prior service.
Not to mention, Commissioned Officers already have enough "good ole boy" clubs. We do not need any more.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 26 at 2016 7:58 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 19:58:33 -0500

There is, it is a Good Conduct Ribbon.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Sep 2 at 2016 5:44 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Fri, 02 Sep 2016 17:44:30 -0400

Of course not, SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 8:02 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 20:02:38 -0400

Agree with LCDR Matlow. Any officer who came up through enlisted ranks should have at least one Good Conduct Medal.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2016 9:37 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Dec 2016 21:37:55 -0500

Well, as a former enlisted member, I wore a Good Conduct ribbon with the rest of my awards. This fairly well addresses THAT situation. I see no need for an additional enlisted insignia.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Dec 25 at 2016 11:59 PM

Maj Marty Hogan — Sun, 25 Dec 2016 23:59:36 -0500

I wear it in my heart and how I now serve. No ribbon needed thanks. 27 years enlisted by the way.

Response by SFC George Smith made Dec 26 at 2016 12:03 AM

SFC George Smith — Mon, 26 Dec 2016 00:03:23 -0500

Prior Enlisted Members will still ware all the ribbons they received when they are commissioned... including leadership ribbons...
Why for they need a special Ribbon the say they were prior enlisted...

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Dec 26 at 2016 8:46 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Mon, 26 Dec 2016 08:46:46 -0500

I was always proud to wear my MC Good Conduct ribbon on uniforms. I don't think however there should be another special ribbon or award for prior enlisted service. If a person is prior enlisted the word gets around soon enough, and you will be judged in that light, without flashing a special ribbon. IMO

Response by PO1 Joseph Glennon made Feb 23 at 2017 9:39 PM

PO1 Joseph Glennon — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 21:39:04 -0500

When you look at an officer's graffiti board, if he was enlisted for any length of time, he'll already have a few ribbons that officers don't get, including the warfare pins that most mustangs don't re-qualify for, just to get the gold version.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 13 at 2017 10:00 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:00:46 -0400

If you have the NCO professional development ribbon or a Good Conduct Medal, that lets everyone know that.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 14 at 2017 1:31 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 01:31:37 -0400

Check out the fruit salad, that should tell you about the officer's career.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 5:51 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:51:31 -0400

As Col Williams wrote, "there already is......" I also have a Good Conduct Medal.

Response by Arsenio Ibay made Aug 28 at 2017 7:14 PM

Arsenio Ibay — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 19:14:57 -0400

There are already some pretty evident tells - such as a permanent award of the drill instructor badge.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2017 8:48 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 20:48:31 -0400

This retired officer had a Good Conduct Ribbon proudly worn on his chest with other awards. Only Enlisted Personnel are awarded this.

Response by MAJ Richard Cheek made Nov 27 at 2017 9:13 PM

MAJ Richard Cheek — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:13:51 -0500

Not really your good conduct medal says it. As a LT I had a good conduct medal 4th award and a drill sgt badge it was pretty obvious.

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Jan 14 at 2018 7:38 PM

PO1 Barbara Matthews — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 19:38:13 -0500

They do have a Good Conduct Ribbon. Anyone who has 4 years of good conduct as an enlisted person has one. A good Mustang Officer will have one of those.

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Jan 14 at 2018 8:57 PM

PO1 Barbara Matthews — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:57:35 -0500

It's called a Good Conduct Ribbon

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Sep 16 at 2018 3:55 PM

LTC Stephan Porter — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:55:59 -0400

I always have my stripes on me, but there should not e a separate insignia.

Response by LT Ed Skiba made Nov 7 at 2018 11:45 AM

LT Ed Skiba — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 11:45:42 -0500

There is...GCM.

Response by MSG David Lambert made Dec 16 at 2018 10:24 PM

MSG David Lambert — Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:24:14 -0500

It’s called a Good Conduct Medal

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Dec 27 at 2018 11:28 AM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 11:28:15 -0500

No reason for that

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Jun 10 at 2019 6:07 PM

LT Brad McInnis — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:07:52 -0400

No need. In my case, I had an Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist (ESWS) pin.

Response by LT Ed Skiba made Aug 17 at 2019 2:48 PM

LT Ed Skiba — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 14:48:00 -0400

How about 3 GCMs?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Oct 18 at 2019 6:08 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 18:08:54 -0400

Ya know, that's a really interesting question, honest...I know if one got a Good Conduct ribbon or medal, that's obviously still allowed to be worn, of course, for warrants and/or commissioned who'd been prior enlisted...one guy, as I've said before, whom I'd chatted with when I was at USAF OTS actually had Navy enlisted sub dolphins on his USAF blues, the only time I'd ever seen that (just an aside)...honestly, though, that was a really thought-provoking question, for real, kudos for that one, really neato one there....

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Oct 18 at 2019 6:45 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 18:45:38 -0400

No, you walk the walk and everybody knows.

Response by SGT(P) Sharon Pasowicz made Oct 20 at 2019 10:38 PM

SGT(P) Sharon Pasowicz — Sun, 20 Oct 2019 22:38:33 -0400

They should be proud of their service as enlisted and let it be known they were at one time enlisted.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Sep 11 at 2020 1:49 PM

CPT Lawrence Cichelli — Fri, 11 Sep 2020 13:49:07 -0400

The newly commisioned officer is in a different place. That person should use the enlisted experience and be enhanced by it. Also O1E-O-3E are on special pay scale for that as well. That IMHO is the compensation.

Response by LCDR Robert Turner made Sep 12 at 2020 8:02 AM

LCDR Robert Turner — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 08:02:14 -0400

My good conduct medals were my “mustang” badge of honor.

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Dec 19 at 2020 3:10 PM

MAJ Steve Daugherty — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 15:10:52 -0500

There already is. Commissioned officers don’t get Good Conduct medals

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Feb 28 at 2021 2:18 PM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:18:45 -0500

Your service stripes and good conduct medal(s) speak for themselves.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 28 at 2021 4:37 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 16:37:54 -0500

Many prior enlisted officers have awards that aren’t available to officers such as a good conduct medal.

Response by SrA John Monette made Apr 23 at 2021 12:51 PM

SrA John Monette — Fri, 23 Apr 2021 12:51:19 -0400

no. the wisdom they show at the lower officer ranks usually gives them away

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Apr 23 at 2021 2:29 PM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Fri, 23 Apr 2021 14:29:47 -0400

There already is. It is called "swagger". Can see it from a mile away.

Response by PO1 Mike Meehan made Apr 23 at 2021 2:55 PM

PO1 Mike Meehan — Fri, 23 Apr 2021 14:55:19 -0400

You really don't need a "special" insignia, most prior enlisted who get commissioned usually have a telltale in their ribbon rack, a Good Conduct Medal, and will usually have more ribbons at the grade of ENS/2Lt than the direct commission types.