Should UCMJ be changed or modified for Reservists?

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 10:40:03 -0400

Far too often the necessity for UCMJ violation, mainly in handing down company and field grade Article 15, has presented itself without any result. Perhaps I do not understand the UCMJ correctly enough to advise my commander on the matter?
It seems as though there is a need to communicate to Reservists that there are penalties for actions and that they are not absolved of them because of their part time status.
Just curious if I am uninformed or if others have experienced this also. What are your thoughts?

Response by CSM Rick Cassel made Jul 9 at 2018 12:47 PM

CSM Rick Cassel — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 12:47:25 -0400

I feel your pain, I just need a little more information. Since you did not elaborate on what results were missing, I can only guess as to what your results you are looking for. I ass/u/me you are aware of the fact that part-time Soldiers create a part time UCMJ system. Soldiers in the USAR are only being subject to UCMJ when in some sort of military status (Drill, AT). Perhaps an example of an issue where a Soldier got away with something you thought should have resulted in a punishment, would be more helpful in a my pinpointing a more helpful response. I can't decipher if you have an issue of Commanders not enforcing the standard or Commanders being over zealous in trying to punish Soldiers not under their authority at the time of the offense. Personally in my experience, I ran into Commanders wanting to punish personnel for civilian offenses between drills more than not punishing offenses that occurred on drill status. To muddy the waters even more, members of the Guard only fall under UCMJ when federalized, (Title 10 orders) otherwise they fall under a state uniform code of military justice, which vary from state to state.

Response by 1SG Frank Rocha made Jul 9 at 2018 1:33 PM

1SG Frank Rocha — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 13:33:03 -0400

Many leaders I have met, in addition to myself, look at policy in two ways. The letter of the law, and the spirit, or intent, of the law, striking a reasonable and fair judgement call based on the circumstances of each case. Determining your commanders "pulse" in this regard would be where you may have a disconnect. I would recommend discussing "no tolerance" issues with your commander in addition to determining "if, then" reactions to each. This would give you a decent base line to work with in determining what actions to take and how they will be received by your Commander.

That stated, consistency and timely communication from your Soldiers is key. Once your full time staff understands your intent and how to proceed for each circumstance I believe things will behave much more efficiently. The consistency gives Soldiers the realism needed to see that actions have consequences. Counseling and mentor-ship on a regular basis also helps to drive this matter home in the minds of Soldiers. But without counseling and effective communication they won't know what they don't know.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Jul 9 at 2018 3:31 PM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 15:31:21 -0400

John - The “Rules” game across the board is shot to hell! We have rules in our government from the top down in both the civilian sectre and military that have failed - saw it before my retirement in ‘00. Why? Because over time, those rules that are/were in-place were and are simply not adhered!!! UCMJ is still an admirable tool, although I must admit, could probably use some updating - unless we stick with tradition, which I as a former soldier would be perfectly fine with! We lose more and more tradition seems like every decade - true statement?
Over time, we have lost the ability, because of a lack of continued training (typically due to both budget and time) to cease the innocent actions by some and stupidity of others as mentioned!
We cannot blame the innocent, for they know no better. However, as mistakes do happen, you should be able to carve out a sweet spot into someone’s ass-end over stupidity of continued and repeat offenders, and the fact that you cannot easily perform that action is a definite problem!
That said, sounds like something that needs to be run-up the chain personally, to the top! Only at the top can they provide the necessary guidance across the entire force whereby those senior, won’t continue to find the loopholes in the currently flawed system they have been so enjoying the past couple of decades...
I have to call B.S. on the tolerance issue when you have TIG/TIG. You’ve been around the block once or twice! If you haven’t picked it up by the time you are an E4 or O2, you aren’t going to get it and it is time for you to find employment elsewhere - show them the door, thank them for their service... Dishonorable/Other than Honorable DD214
Just my two cents worth! Great post, great question!!! Would be curious to see the outcome of this one...
V/R, Jim

Response by COL Thomas F. made Jul 9 at 2018 4:24 PM

COL Thomas F. — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 16:24:38 -0400

This is an interesting question that has been brought up in water cooler conversation before. First off, saying "reservists" needs to be defined. As an Army Reservist, we fall under Title 10 of the US Code all the time - drill, AT, ADOS, ADT, whatever. As pointed out by CSM Rick Cassel, National Guard members are Title 32 at the state level during Drill weekends. They do however transfer to Title 10 at Annual Training, ADOS, or going to federal army training like BCT and AIT. Your question really drives home two main issues. First, in either COMPO, even when under title 32, both are subject to UCMJ when NOT on IDT status. The States have their own version of UCMJ for title 32 and a few have adopted the Federal standards. Second when on AT orders, even if the Soldier screws up, not many commanders want to go through the goat rope and legal two-step of a court martial, unless its a really serious issue. Felonies, sexual assault, rape, murder, violent acts, etc. Those are the no-brainer-going to the SJA for processing. Offenses less that that off a federal post, most RC units just process the soldier out of the ARNG/USAR for the good of the force (so an SJA told me). In the end, changing the UCMJ is a congressional issue as they are laws passed by congress - not a DoD level publication. More importantly, commanders at each level, need to want to spend the time and resources to prosecute these knuckle heads which means bringing people in on orders to testify which can include TDY costs if not local. Therefore, to save some pain, you'll see a lot of Article 15s (non judicial punishments). What I would tell commanders it to make sure the SJA comes out annually and gives a in depth briefing on what Soldiers should expect if they screw up. There is no coverage because of a reserve status. Just a lot of pain all around including the families of the Soldiers. Just my 2-cents.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 11 at 2018 10:29 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:29:29 -0400

John- it is a matter of passing on the info- after all it is the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. Maybe if you pick out some of the stories about Reservists being recalled to active duty to face charges and pass it on to the troops, they will get the message. I don't envy you, drive on.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2018 10:48 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:48:03 -0400

I’m realizing I may sound a bit vague, or worse, uninformed here. Admittedly I am not well versed in the minutiae of UCMJ as it applies to Reservists. Either UCMJ action is underutilized or there are restrictions. I know that it is damned near impossible to Court Martial a TPU Reservist because of the time and resources required unless the offense is completely egregious. My question was more along the lines of Article 15s and the application of Extra duty and/or loss of pay. If AD Soldiers are subject tonit, so to should Reservists be subject.
In that regard there needs to be a revamp of the punishment.

Response by SPC Michael Dillon made Jul 11 at 2018 10:13 PM

SPC Michael Dillon — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 22:13:56 -0400

I have a question. If arrested and charged with crime by local PD while on orders (reserve, NG,) are you or can you be subject to UCMJ too ? Would it be considered double jepordy?

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 12 at 2018 11:15 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Thu, 12 Jul 2018 23:15:04 -0400

Only applies to duty weekends. I had a soldier who was the victim of ongoing spousal abuse by a reservist. Nothing we could officially do to the other guy because we could never prove abuse happened during drill weekend. It got taken care of another way (not on drill weekend).

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2018 7:54 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 07:54:41 -0400

I think the frustration I have... and I suspect the one that you're alluding to CSM Private RallyPoint Member is just how difficult it is to bring formal charges and try by court-marshal when the situation warrants. We are all only on duty a couple days a month, and cutting orders to pin down and fry a shit bird just isn't going to happen without a very high level of visibility and interest. Offenders know this (or find out soon after consulting counsel) and play chicken with leadership, daring them to try under court-marshal.
Article 15s aren't easy to administer either if the accused fights at all, even if you have them dead to rights.
I have had several situations like this over the years. Some of the stories are pretty crazy.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2018 1:08 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 13:08:16 -0400

I just returned from the USAR CSM legal conference. Had a lot of my previously stated questions and frustrations answered. The bottom line is that we must inform Commanders that punitive action can be taken on USAR Service members.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Oct 3 at 2018 3:39 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:39:18 -0400

No...you are wearing the uniform the standard is the same across the board.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 14 at 2019 5:25 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:25:12 -0500

We had a drill weekend where we went to another base in another state for awhile to do our drills.. we were in town at a local watering hole and an underage Airman had been served 3 times by a worker..
How they did it it .. was another at a table
Went up and ordered a pitcher and extra glasses.. the girl tookthem over and poured the glasses.. shift changes and new server is on duty.. she takes a new pitcher (the Amn conveniently left before
She came on duty.. well she doesn’t fill the glass because the person it belongs to is not present and she can’t check his
I.D. She even took the partial pitcher with
Her.. So them guys get s’one else to sit there a few minutes. Pretend’g to be the
Airman.. This guy shows his , she pours n leaves. The original Airman returns . and drinks from the glass .. the bar gal is sharp and knows he’s not the one she poured for at that spot and says she got to see his I.D. Again .. just a minute (he says, he knows his game is done ) he slugs his pint glass and then walks out.
He’s now in the mall off the premises. She calls over a security agent and tells him of the Airman.. No problem, public intoxication by a minor . Did you use false
I.D. He asked him.. “No, s’body else bought it(that guy had split after seeing the sitrep) They went in look’g he’s gone.. An AF officer steps up.. is there a prob here? Yes sir, Amn here is underage and is drunk under code xx of state of ____, Law. “did you give him a rip yet? No
Sir ! Fine, I’ll take charge of him and get him back to base.. which he did . He found a JAG who charged the Airman with
an Art 134, conduct unbecoming , intoxication by underage Personnel . I’m sure U.S. Code covers this somewhere..
oh here it is:Title 10, United States Code (U.S.C.) 8013, 42 U.S.C.290dd-.. actually it cover rehabilitation/treatment.. which
He did complete. They put it in his file and meanwhile returned to homebase.
Well .. where they were at those Security agents were local law enforcement work’g part time ..did some detective work and found who the Reserve unit was.. there was no security sitrep requiring names be kept secret.. they found out who everybody in that unit was. With cooperation from the host unit they identified the Airman by a temp line badge pic. On file. The home Base was notified and their host base asked what action was taken, home base forwarded the the
U.S. code statement.. and the host base passed to local Prosecutor and they accepted it. Nothing was asked about jail time as they showed an Art. 134 issued.
The home base did not include the suspended demotion and suspended 1/2
Six months pay.. if the Airman kept his nose clean.. They(local LEOs) would of prob’ly wanted s’thing more done.
The AF and AF Reserve take care of their own ! The Airman was s flightline worker, not in my Group. I knew of him.. I chose not to go that night.. good thing or there would have been 2 of us.. I stayed back n played cards ..

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Jan 14 at 2019 9:50 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 21:50:29 -0500

Seems like in my Reserve unit, we had an annual briefing from the JAG section of the garrison unit. CSM Archer, I would suggest that the commander request a JAG briefing for the unit. Your soldiers need to realize that the UCMJ covers them also.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2019 12:26 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 12:26:47 -0500

No. No. Well maybe. The only I have with it is the timelines....what would normally take 72 hours for an active duty takes months b/c of the safeguards built in for responses. Which means that even they pop drugs it is too long to get them out... way to long. Coming from USAF Active duty to USAFR to Army Guard in my mind you can definitely tell those that are career guard/reserve and those that are prior active duty. The mindset is different and I think that is more that is bugging you than the UCMJ and its enforcement process.

Response by SGT Chris Padgett made Jan 15 at 2019 5:58 PM

SGT Chris Padgett — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 17:58:00 -0500

Just going to throw this out there.
When you're in the Guard/Reserve, UCMJ is a whole lot less of a determent. A/D gets an Artice 15, it's devastating, it's going to mean a loss of pay, privilege, rank and maybe freedom. Guard/Reserve, no biggie, you can't hold me past my MUTA, and even if you could, where you going to put me? Take $, that's fine, I won't come back. Take rank, realistically that's no big deal either. Rank is less important in the Guard/Reserve than A/D. Prior to the no fraternization policy that came down in the late 90's, as a SP4 I was my BC's boss. Besides, you can get it back in just a few months. Now for A/D, that's a big deal, but NG/R, that's only 10-15 days.
UCMJ is what it is, but it has no teeth with the NG/R because you really can't punish these guys with it. The serious things, just let the cops deal with it.
Really, what are you gonna do? Take desserts away at Golden Coral?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2019 8:35 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 08:35:21 -0500

I'd say awareness and training regarding UCMJ and Reserve on-duty and off-duty responsibilities is paramount. I have supported many units and I never witnessed a training brief on UCMJ for the grassroots soldier. Knowledge is power!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 8:05 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 08:05:45 -0500

No in the words of an old movie I like: "hang em high". They need to learn.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made May 17 at 2019 4:38 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Fri, 17 May 2019 16:38:47 -0400

There’s no special privilege.. because they code the Reserve..

Response by PV2 Ross Bryan made Oct 30 at 2019 11:03 PM

PV2 Ross Bryan — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:03:29 -0400

I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE DONE ON A MINOR INFRACTION THAT WOULD INCLUDE BEING RESTRICTED TO BARRACKS AS A RESERVIST!
WOULD A CONVIENIENT BARRACKS BE USED HERE OR WOULD SUCH INDIVIDUAL BE RESTRICTED TO HIS OWN PERSONAL HOME?
AND IF SO WHO AND HOW WAS THIS MONITORED?
AS FOR REDUCTIONS IN GRADE AND PAY WAS NO PROBLEM FOR ME DUE TO THE FACT MY REAL WORLD JOB PAID WELL AND ALL MY MOTIVATION REVOLVED AROUND BURNING DAYS UNTIL MY DISCHARGE WAS DUE,
EXACTLY HOW COULD PUNISMENT BE GIVEN AND MONITERED??

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2020 11:22 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:22:17 -0500

No!