Should volunteering help you get promoted?

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 07:46:09 -0400

Volunteering will not longer influence who gets promoted — and who gets passed over — under the Air Force's new enlisted promotion system, said Brig. Gen. Brian Kelly, the director of military force management policy.

"It shouldn't play in how we evaluate and select for promotion," Kelly said in a June 12 interview in his Pentagon office. "It doesn't mean we don't still value that and want our airmen to participate and do those things as part of their overall development and as part of our responsibilities as airmen and part of the country and the nation. We still value our folks doing that. But it's not going to be how we determine who gets promoted."

The Air Force has long encouraged airmen to volunteer in their community or further their education off-duty as part of what it called the whole airman, or whole person concept, and rewarded them for doing so on their evaluations. And for years, many airmen grumbled that the whole airman concept ensured that hardworking, high-performing airmen who don't volunteer get passed over in favor of lackluster airmen who spend their Saturdays at the soup kitchen.

A column on the website We Are The Mighty titled "32 Terms Only Airmen Will Understand" in February, for example, defined the whole airman concept as "An enlisted performance review system designed to keep you from earning a perfect rating (and ultimately a BTZ promotion) despite being the best performer in your unit at your actual job function, because you didn't volunteer to pick up trash at the squadron commander's mandatory fun burger burn."

Kelly said volunteering in one's community, serving as president of the Non-Commissioned Officer Council, or pursuing off-duty education is still going to be valued and encouraged by the Air Force, as being an overall good airman. Volunteering, for example, will still help an airman receive quarterly awards.

But under the new performance-driven system that is now being put into place, it will be impossible for someone to not be good at his job and still get promoted because he volunteers, Kelly said.

"You can't do those things and not be a good performer and be able to get ahead," Kelly said. "Those things still matter. But they don't matter as much as your day-to-day performance. If I'm looking at the performance of an airman in the maintenance squadron, and they happen to be a volunteer for a lot of things, and they're president of the local NCO council, but they're on a daily basis not a really good maintainer -- can't turn the wrenches and can't get their job done to do what they need to do -- then they're not valued as a performer as much, and they shouldn't be getting one of the top recommendations."

And Kelly said that this change will mean that when an airman gets a top performance rating and a promotion, everybody should know he deserves it and it wasn't because he volunteered his way into a promotion.

"There will be people who are complete airmen who do all those things, they volunteer, they get their off-duty education, they're involved in lots of things, and they'll get a top rating," Kelly said. "The reason they'll get a top rating, though, isn't because of those things. They'll get a top rating because they're a really good performer.

"Somebody will probably look at it and say, well, they're getting it because of that [volunteering]. It won't be the case anymore. If they really look and dive deep -- and this will be important for our commanders to explain that, and important for our commanders to get those ratings to those deserving people -- it'll be the people who are great performers who also do those things" that get promotions.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/06/22/kelly-volunteering-wont-help-you-get-promoted-anymore/29103891/

Kelly: Volunteering won't help you get promoted anymore

Volunteering will not longer decide who gets promoted and who gets passed over under the Air Force's new enlisted promotion system, said Brig. Gen.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 23 at 2015 8:30 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:30:08 -0400

Doing more for your Nation and community is not going to be a factor in who we promote? It is either direct or an indirect factor in promotion.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 11:39 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:39:48 -0400

I belong to various organizations aimed at the betterment of my branch, my cohort, the Army and the community and although I do it because I believe in the causes they present and it’s something that I choose to do regardless of preferable treatment or gained advantages, I feel that Soldiers would be recognized for their efforts in some sort of capacity.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 23 at 2015 11:58 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:58:55 -0400

My personal belief is that no, volunteering should not be a factor used in deciding whether one is promoted or not within the military, specifically within the Army. The DOD already has the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal which is and should be utilized to recognize those who go above and beyond in helping out within their communities.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Jun 23 at 2015 12:15 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:15:01 -0400

I'm glad to finally see this come out officially. There has always been lots of volunteer chasing going on in the Air Force and it never really sat right with me. It's important to spend what extra time we do have with our families.

Response by SrA David Roby made Jun 23 at 2015 1:28 PM

SrA David Roby — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:28:30 -0400

No because some AFSCs have more time to volunteer than others. Just like in the real world some jobs require more time and energy than others.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 23 at 2015 1:35 PM

PO1 John Miller — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:35:44 -0400

We both know that this is true in the Navy too. Who's going to look better on evals, the guy who has 15 collateral duties and has to take time off from doing his actual job to support one of these collateral duties or the guy who has zero collateral duties?

I don't know how many times I would tell one of my junior people they couldn't go take care of a collateral duty on work time but I'd get shot down by the upper chain of command. "Petty Officer soandso is your best performer and they need to go teach that CPR class." My argument of "I've got no one else qualified to sit their watch station, and you yourself have said that you will support section supervisors when they won't let people take time off to fulfill collateral duties" didn't work, there would always be some lame-ass excuse.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 23 at 2015 1:37 PM

PO1 John Miller — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:37:44 -0400

If volunteering didn't help one get promoted (wrongly in my opinion) the military outstanding volunteer service medal wouldn't exist.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 23 at 2015 1:38 PM

PO1 John Miller — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:38:30 -0400

I actually volunteer more now than I EVER did in the Navy.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jun 23 at 2015 1:54 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:54:00 -0400

Its a good start, but Commanders and First Sergeants will still use this as leverage to get their pet projects done. Personally, I have always seen charity and volunteer work as a closely personal and spiritual act that is lessened by public recognition (i.e. pay). When the Air Force decided that they both needed to know about and to a certain extent control my off duty volunteer efforts, I was infuriated and refused to play along. I remember being told by a 1st Sgt that it would be better for me to stand in front of the BX and beg for donations for a base charity (because it was public and the results would be announced in the base paper) then it was for me to help renovate a battered women's shelter (which was by definition completely private). The "Air Force" has no business rewarding its members for charity work or publicly announcing how many charity hours its members do (taking credit for it).

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 23 at 2015 2:10 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 14:10:45 -0400

Nothing is stronger than the heart of a volunteer.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Jun 23 at 2015 3:19 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:19:03 -0400

I say no. In the civilian world, if all I did was volunteer for things outside the reason I got hired for, why should the company pay me or promote me. I take a similar approach to the military. Volunteering is awesome but it is something extra that we do with our personal time. The MOVSM exists to recognize service members.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 4:29 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:29:26 -0400

Volunteers give of themselves. It's a trickle down effect - that it makes you feel good about yourself, encourages others to do the same and improves the world around you. Further, there are many ways to volunteer, such as being a mentor to someone (which may be the difference between someone lasting and washing out of his or her profession).

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jun 24 at 2015 3:59 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:59:43 -0400

I never got many opportunities to volunteer. I was always in the work center taking care of the mission while the glory hounds were out getting their picture in the paper.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 4:16 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 16:16:34 -0400

While volunteering is important just for the sake of need, I don't believe it should directly influence promotion. That said, until Air Force and other awards packages remove base and community involvement as a factor in determining the winner, it will always be indirectly linked to promotion; particularly as it relates to competing for senior NCO grades. When determining who your top three percent and top one percent of your enlisted corps will be, individual award winners often rise to the top. Taking volunteer comments out of evals doesn't prevent senior raters from considering it in their stratification, especially as commanders mention it in push notes to those leaders and those same senior leaders see those volunteers frequently in "high vis" positions.

This is very much like the Air Force removing advanced degrees from promotion board consideration through Lt Col. Senior raters still have access to education data and can use it as a discriminating factor as to who gets the DP on their PRF, which in this day and age can make the difference in whether or not an officer is promoted; particularly from Major to Lt Col. Bottom line: taking volunteer comments out of enlisted evals will not eliminate volunteering as a consideration in the process. Raters and senior raters will use any info they can to delineate who the best of the best are. As long as volunteering is considered somewhere in the process, whether or not it is directly mentioned in an eval is irrelevant.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:23 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:23:42 -0400

I believe the AF in particular doesn't put the proper focus on volunteering. In the sense that leaders should stress that if you decide to volunteer during duty hours then you need to already be excelling in your primary job duties.

Additionally we don't do a good job in mentoring our members that if they volunteer it should be in a cause that they believe in not something they are just doing just to do for a bullet.

Lastly I will say that folks that I've worked with that "didn't have time" to volunteer or were overtly against it were never the most pleasant people to around in general. Nor were they the person that I would count on to help me move furniture on a weekend.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:36 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:36:10 -0400

Volunteering shows that you are not only in it for yourself and you are willing to set aside some time to help others. That in itself is a key element to being a leader. so yes it should help with promotions.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jun 24 at 2015 6:11 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 18:11:04 -0400

Am glad to see this change. You should promote competence, not incompetents who volunteer to make up for what they lack in actual job performance.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 5:31 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 17:31:12 -0400

Most certainly not. Especially when volunteering takes away from your duties (and I've seen it happen in the Air Force); some A1C bucking for SrA BTZ or the like.

Promotion should be based on your ability to properly execute your job and whether or not you go above and beyond in your duties. Not how much you volunteer. I'm not saying volunteering should have no weight at all, but I am saying it should take a back seat to job performance.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Jul 8 at 2018 10:52 AM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 10:52:03 -0400

I can believe that is true for the airforce after attending its SNCO Academy. However, it is not true in the army. You have to volunteer for Airborne, Ranger, Sapper, SF and a multitude of other schools MOS related. Elite Soldiers volunteer because they are warriors. The airforce has very few elite enlisted airmen which those are CCT, SOF Units and PJs. Their officers that fly jets are their warriors. The general must be talking about shit details.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jul 8 at 2018 11:24 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 11:24:03 -0400

I agree with the general, LCDR Private RallyPoint Member. I don’t think volunteer service should figure in promotion outcomes.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2018 10:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 22:06:28 -0400

I can see a lot of volunteer organizations associated with Airmen losing membership now. Unfortunately...

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Mar 5 at 2019 2:34 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 14:34:07 -0500

Its good to volunteer for community projects but that has nothing to so with you work,,the focus there should be doing Your job.