Should Warrant Officers salute Lieutenants?

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jul 2014 17:40:16 -0400

Not to piss more of you off about the "Should a 2LT salute a 1LT?" thread moving to the top of the most recent discussions every 5 seconds but I haven't thought about the Warrant Officers on this subject.

So I have a 2ndLt on deck in my unit now and I asked him and our 1stLt about them saluting each other and they explained that also Warrant Officers and Chief Warrant Officers in addition to the Lieutenants never salute each other and it's widely accepted in the Marine Corps under the "one bar rule."

I'm just seeking your thoughts on this.

Should a 2LT salute a 1LT? | RallyPoint

I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged...

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2014 5:43 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jul 2014 17:43:00 -0400

I remember this well, years ago it was affectionately and informally referred to as the "one bar club." :)

Response by SPC Brendan Kearns made Jul 17 at 2014 11:12 AM

SPC Brendan Kearns — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:12:03 -0400

oh god not again

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2014 11:55 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:55:02 -0400

Always! Based on rank structure that has gone back decades...enough said!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2014 12:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:14:12 -0400

Should they? Yes

Do they? Depends on the person.

A-1. WHEN TO SALUTE
Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons
entitled (by grade) to a salute except when it is inappropriate or impractical (in public
conveyances such as planes and buses, in public places such as inside theaters, or when
driving a vehicle).
a. A salute is also rendered—
• When the United States National Anthem, “To the Color,” “Hail to the Chief,” or
foreign national anthems are played.
• To uncased National Color outdoors.
• On ceremonial occasions as prescribed in Part Two, Ceremonies.
• At reveille and retreat ceremonies, during the raising or lowering of the flag.
• During the sounding of honors.
• When the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. flag is being recited outdoors.
• When turning over control of formations.
• When rendering reports.
• To officers of friendly foreign countries.
b. Salutes are not required when—
• Indoors, except when reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
• Addressing a prisoner.
• Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In these cases, only greetings are exchanged.
(Example 1: A person carrying articles with both hands, or being otherwise so
occupied as to make saluting impracticable, is not required to salute a senior
person or return the salute to a subordinate.)
• Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.
c. In any case not covered by specific instructions, the salute is rendered.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2014 3:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:44:57 -0400

Amazing

Response by SPC Dennis Mullins made Jul 17 at 2014 3:50 PM

SPC Dennis Mullins — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:50:34 -0400

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Jul 18 at 2014 2:05 PM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Fri, 18 Jul 2014 14:05:02 -0400

Yes.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 18 at 2014 2:35 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 18 Jul 2014 14:35:46 -0400

Okay, this is the case of same, but different. By reg, yes a 2LT is supposed to render a salute to a 1LT as a 1LT is a superior. However, what is the reason why the CUSTOM is that they don't (and remember, customs often hold as much weight as regs sometimes)? The reason why is that for all intents and purposes a 2LT and 1LT are interchangeable. One may get paid a bit more than the other, but at the end of the day, they are pretty much doing the same types of jobs and have the same types of responsibilities. Hence, don't salute a "peer" (even though by the letter of the law, they are not). Warrants and 2LTs are not interchangeable and there is a clear delineation of duties and responsiblities, so the ideas of being "peers" is not in the equation anymore. That being said, you'll be hard pressed to find a 2LT who will have a case of the ass when a Warrant doesn't salute him. You'll be even harder pressed to find a 2LT who will know how to act around Warrants in the first place. And from far away, a Warrant bar looks a lot like a 1LT bar, so if anytying you'll have a 2LT who will not react at all, or will salute the Warrant first.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jul 18 at 2014 5:14 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Fri, 18 Jul 2014 17:14:44 -0400

It is an ABSOLUTE YES on all accounts, yes warrant officers are commissioned, but the rank structure still places me below a LT (who usually for some reason calls me "sir") and above the CSM. Some folks try to place field grade on warrants, no such animal, but then the new OER places us there on the OER. This here Army is a confusing beast at times, but all warrants will salute a LT and if not, beware if I am around. SMOKED is what you will be!

caveat....when my daughter graduates USNA in 2016 she will out rank me after 30 years of service on her first day!

**UPDATE** We are now covered in the Army Regulations as Field Grade for CW3/4 and Senior Field Grade for CW5 and we ALL still salute the 2LT!.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2014 12:34 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jul 2014 00:34:19 -0400

It is good see that the Marines are subject to the same customs that the army suffers from.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Jul 20 at 2014 4:56 PM

CPT Jacob Swartout — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:56:12 -0400

Yes, Warrant Officers salute us because that is how the rank structure is designed.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 3:50 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:50:27 -0400

Often times on RallyPoint, a discussion will take a turn and become about Army regulations, customs and courtesies. This question was asked by a Marine.

The custom in the Marines is the "one bar rule". Any officer that wears one bar does not salute any other officer that wears one bar. Knowing that this is a Marine custom, and that I am in the Army, I will salute a Marine LT.

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Jul 30 at 2014 6:59 PM

SGT Jay Ehrenfeld — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:59:49 -0400

warrant officer does not salute 1 or Second Lt. only to field grade officer and General officers

Response by Capt Terry Fillmore made Jul 30 at 2014 8:15 PM

Capt Terry Fillmore — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 20:15:50 -0400

When I attended The Basic School as a 2nd Lt., there was also a W.O. class going on. There was a problem with the new warrant officers not saluting the new second lieutenants until The Basic School commanding officer made it clear that the warrant officers would salute the second lieutenants or they would answer to him, so yes, warrant officers do salute second lieutenants.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 12:35 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 00:35:14 -0400

The short answer is yes. Even as a 2LT I was saluted by CW4s and 5s. I actually thought it felt a little awkward but it's the tradition. That said, if a Warrant and any Officer have a working relationship it shouldn't be a big deal.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 11:43 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 11:43:50 -0400

Ok, I give you a pass on this one because you're a Marine, and the traditions are different between services. Having said that, if any Soldier asked this question, I would flat out call them ridiculous to their face.

If said Soldier was fellow Warrant Officer, I'd take them to the side and say "Hey Brother (or Sister), WTF??? Are you nuts? Of course we do!"

Response by CW4 Gordon Eatley made Aug 4 at 2014 2:52 PM

CW4 Gordon Eatley — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 14:52:35 -0400

Yes we salute 2nd Lts as the rank structure place all warrant officers between SMG and 2nd Lt. How ever it overlooked in many cases by both parties. Now if you go further into the reg.s you will see that Warrant officers are grouped with other ranks for housing, shipping allowance. etc. A W-4 usually gets the same size quarters and shipping allowance as a Maj. Efforts have been made over the years to get rid of Warrants (Air force did) or to have them ranked like the specialist rank, SP-4 = E-4 W-1 = 2nd Lt. W-2 1st Lt and so on. All with out any success. As an Aside Warrant officers use to not salute each other no matter what the rank.

Response by Sgt Jay Jones made Aug 5 at 2014 5:22 PM

Sgt Jay Jones — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 17:22:29 -0400

Enlisted salute everyone who is either a Warrant Officer or a Commissioned Officer.

Warrant Officers are not commissioned, therefore the are required to salute all Commissioned officers.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2014 10:05 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 10:05:11 -0400

SSgt:

1) The Marine WOs and CWOs I have worked with are some of the most professional and proficient Marines on the planet.

2) The more professional they are, the more they would resoundingly answer in the affirmative when asked if they should salute lieutenants.

3) Thank you for asking for clarification as there are some out there that try to argue that "culturally" the warrant and commissioned (understanding that CWOs are, in fact, commissioned) are somehow lateral to each other these days. This is error.

Response by LTC Barry Hull made Aug 6 at 2014 10:12 AM

LTC Barry Hull — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 10:12:08 -0400

One more thought on 2LTs saluting 1LTs. It has been a while since I looked at a Unit Manning Roster or MTOE. But as I recall, there are no slots on those for a 2LT. Every PL slot and every LT slot on those documents is O2. I assume that is that is due to the quick promotion of LTs (18 months). Based on that, I would guess that to BIG A a LT is a LT is a LT. Position and time in grade might be the only discriminators for COC. Of course, para 5 of the OPORD provide the leader to designate the COC for an operation.

Response by SPC Phillip Ludlow made Aug 7 at 2014 1:15 PM

SPC Phillip Ludlow — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 13:15:38 -0400

daily dose of cat

Response by Sgt Andrew Pouliot made Aug 7 at 2014 2:10 PM

Sgt Andrew Pouliot — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 14:10:46 -0400

SSgt,
In theory, warrant officers should salute all officers and any officers should salute another that is higher rank than them, but really, it is unit discretion. I deployed with CLB-6 and in the time we were in garrison the few warrant officers we did have never saluted any officers, let alone lieutenants. I never really saw second lieutenants saluting first lieutenants either and it's because they just decided to do away with it. In official settings, there was much saluting, but just walking about they would nod at each other and call it a day. When I was in the school house oh yeah the warrant officers saluted all the officers, because the Logistics Officers School was right next door to us so they had officers from Burundi, Italy, the UK, and a few other places there. It was a pretty big deal.
I guess it just depends on where you are, and what the atmosphere is like.

Response by CW5 Michael Scheller made Aug 8 at 2014 4:30 PM

CW5 Michael Scheller — Fri, 08 Aug 2014 16:30:10 -0400

Hold on! What we are truly discussing is a professional exchange or greeting. I, a Warrant Officer, greet many professionals each day. Some are required by regulation to INITIATE the exchange (salute) with me while with others I must be the initiator. I do not simply salute a Lieutenant; he or she in return salutes me. I salute and greet enlisted and noncommissioned officers daily and am proud to do so.

Too many Soldiers, including some of my brethren Warrant Officers, look upon this as a burden instead of a friendly exchange that it truly is. This is similar to saying "good morning ma'am" to a lady I encounter at the grocery store. Initiating that greeting did not make me subordinate to her, however it did enhance my sense of pride in being a gentleman. I take similar pride in being a military professional and thus gladly initiate and return the salute when appropriate.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 1:53 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:53:10 -0400

I saluted a 2LT on Thursday and he did not correct me. Case closed.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 10:57 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:57:51 -0400

Well...yes.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Aug 25 at 2014 12:19 PM

SGT Richard H. — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:19:53 -0400

I'm seriously considering starting a thread entitled "Should Privates salute Generals?"

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Aug 25 at 2014 7:42 PM

LTC Paul Heinlein — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:42:51 -0400

Yes. Saluting is part of our history and customs. You are saluting the rank and authority the person holds vice the actual person.

When I correct Soldiers that go out of their way to avoid a salute, I often say "Saluting an Officer is about the only time you can make them do something [e.g. return your salute and acknowledge your presence], why would you purposefully give up that opportunity?"

My favorite is when a group of Soldiers see a Senior Officer coming and they purposely break apart in a line far enough apart so the Officer has to return the salute to each one individually vice as a group.

Response by SPC Stephen Bobchin made Aug 25 at 2014 11:11 PM

SPC Stephen Bobchin — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:11:51 -0400

Just taking this to the ultimate climax.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-privates-salute-generals

Should Privates Salute Generals | RallyPoint

I'm taking this thing to its next logical conclusion, and beating a few people to the punch ;)

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Aug 27 at 2014 3:37 PM

SGT Jay Ehrenfeld — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:37:38 -0400

Look in the Custom regulation

Response by COL Roger Lintz made Sep 1 at 2014 2:22 PM

COL Roger Lintz — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 14:22:41 -0400

I've got one for ya, I remember when the CG of the base used to cruise around in his sedan with his rank plate (2 Stars) in the windshield just looking for a Soldier that didn't salute his car. Has anyone had a similar experience?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2014 9:08 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:08:10 -0400

Of course. Rank is rank, and a second lieutenant outranks a CW5, like it or not.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Oct 18 at 2014 12:16 AM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 00:16:40 -0400

SSgt, Warrant Officers are still considered "non-commissioned", and therefore must salute all commissioned officers.

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2014 7:44 PM

CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:44:27 -0400

This is my first post on rally point. Text book answer, which many have stated in this thread is yes, Warrant and Chief Warrant Officers will initiate a salute to 2ndLt's and above. On the other hand, while WO1s are attending The Basic School, which all Marine Officers go through, we are told not to salute for a few reasons. One reason is there are so many damn officers in the area, no one will get anywhere because they'll be standing there holding salutes all damn day.

This is where the "one bar rule" originated. It just became accepted after TBS that CWOs don't salute 2nd and 1st Lieutenants. You will see this extend to Captains as well.

Having said all that, I, as well as most if not all CWOs always initiate at a bare minimum, a proper greeting, or friendly greeting if I know that particular Marine Officer, no matter the rank. It's how we were raised.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Nov 11 at 2014 12:47 AM

SSG Maurice P. — Tue, 11 Nov 2014 00:47:51 -0500

What is this shit about saluting young Lieutenants..........Marine Corps gunners back in the 70's and 80's had no problem that i as as a Marine Corps Sgt could see in saluting a Lieutenant...What the fuck is up in the military today...

Response by CW4 Scott Kjendlie made Dec 8 at 2014 9:38 AM

CW4 Scott Kjendlie — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:38:04 -0500

This is the reason we have a rank structure. We may not like it at times, but it was put in place for a reason.

Response by LTC John Wilson made Feb 12 at 2015 7:36 PM

LTC John Wilson — Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:36:53 -0500

Who published the one bar rule and who actually believes it. When I was in the Corps, a junior NCO, Officer, Warrant officer would always salute a senior officer. If you didn't things would get a little heated and you would be the wrong end of a blasting furnace. Never heard of a one bar rule.
Your Junior, you salute the senior officer period.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2015 12:53 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:53:43 -0500

Good Times!!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 5:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:59:17 -0500

Should Warrant Officers salute Lieutenants? Should Privates salute Generals? The answer to both is yes for the same reason...one out ranks the other.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 10:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:45:00 -0500

Seeing how Warrant Officers are not commissioned officers yet the clear answer is yes

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Mar 6 at 2015 10:00 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Fri, 06 Mar 2015 22:00:52 -0500

A resounding yes. Lieutenants outranks Warrant officers. Give me a hard one.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Mar 7 at 2015 11:44 PM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Sat, 07 Mar 2015 23:44:06 -0500

Army Warrants... Talk about being invincible! As a former E5 - I respected that invincibility. As a CPT and MAJ I couldn't stand it!!!! All the privileged with none of the headaches. I LOVED adding additional duties to my WO's. Yes, I got the "but ma'am, I wasn't trained in that..."

A little bit of humor! I am glad that there is a CW5. I would certainly equate the clout of a CW4 and CW5 to LTC and COL respectively.

Response by CW3 Craig Linghor made Mar 18 at 2015 8:53 AM

CW3 Craig Linghor — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:53:34 -0400

I consider a salute a sign of respect more than a sign of subordination.

Response by PO2 David Hagwood made Mar 18 at 2015 9:37 AM

PO2 David Hagwood — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 09:37:38 -0400

Okay, I know how things are technically suppose to work, the more junior person innitiates the salute to the senior, then the salute is returned; but I think the whole thing is more complicated than it should be. It seems simple enough that if you see each other, just throw up your salutes and be done with it; and appreciate that there is mutual respect. It's a gesture of respect and respect goes up and down the chain regardless of your rank. I personally have a higher respect for Chief Warrant Officers and other mustangs because they truly know what it means to be where we are and do what we do. It's hard to beat the leadership that experience and wisdom bring.

Response by PO2 David Hagwood made Mar 18 at 2015 9:46 AM

PO2 David Hagwood — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 09:46:13 -0400

*delete duplicate*

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2015 1:55 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 13:55:19 -0400

This again?? For the love of everything that is sacred in this world...why is this even being addressed again. We are not even beating the same dead horse anymore.......it's as if we've taken a herd of baby unicorns out into a field to watch a squadron of Abrams squish them while the Tankers giggle.......

I digress, SSgt to answer your question, I think they are mistaken in their interpretation unless they can cite a corp/naval reg that states as such. Acceptance or complacency does not make something right.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 4 at 2015 11:48 PM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 23:48:50 -0400

Yes, of course. I agree 2LTs generally don't salute 1LTs, but aside from that, yes. If a CSM can salute a 2LT, why wouldn't a WO?

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 19 at 2015 6:04 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 06:04:41 -0400

Going by the book, of course the CWO is supposed to salute first. Like it or not, that 22 year old Butter Bar is superior in rank to even a CWO5.

With that said, Marine Corps CWO5's are NOT like unicorns. They really do exist! I talked to one on the phone once (CWO5 that is), LOL!!!

I've also seen 1 or 2 Navy CWO5's.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 14 at 2015 11:24 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:24:31 -0400

When we don't salute, we are defacto creating a new standard that Junior soldiers will follow. All to often I have heard many an NCO say "I won't salute a 2LT, he (or she) hasn't earned it" to which I jump their tail section it. What part of the NCO creed says you don't asalute? The part that says no one is more professional than you? The part that says officers will have the maximum amount of time to accomplish their mission (because if I have to stop and train you how to salute, you obviously have failed in this area), the part that soldiers can expect excellent leadership (you failed here too because an excellent leader should not have to get reminded to salute officers). This generally ends the conversation, once and for all. For the record I have been a Platoon Sergeant, Detachment Sergeant and Acting First Sergeant, so I know a tad about the NCO creed and what it says.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 4:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:59:41 -0400

Yes

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Oct 21 at 2015 8:53 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:53:11 -0400

I have found several 2LT's who initiated the salute to me, however, yes - warrants should always salute a 2LT and I do. I will also mention that with 37 years in, many of those 2LT's are now O-6's. Just sayin'.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Mar 31 at 2016 5:24 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:24:48 -0400

After giving this much thought (hours and hours), I've decided that only junior warrant officers (W1's, W2's) should have to salute lieutenants. W3's and W4's upon approaching lieutenants should point at some mysterious "object" in the sky and ooh and ah (or whatever exclamatory noise you choose). Use the hand you are carrying your cigar in otherwise you will spill your coffee (beer if after 1700). W5's generally have their noses buried in their blackberries and are walking with O6's so the point is moot.

Carry on.

Response by CW4 John Karl T. made Apr 20 at 2016 1:03 PM

CW4 John Karl T. — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:03:44 -0400

Check your rank structure. A CWO-5 is out ranked by the newest 2nd Lieutenant. As a Warrant, you better salute that 2nd Lt if you value your rear end!

Response by SSG Dale London made May 6 at 2016 11:42 AM

SSG Dale London — Fri, 06 May 2016 11:42:03 -0400

Simple answer: LT's outrank WO's. While officers do not tend to salute their peers, when there is a significant disparity in rank, military courtesy is important. And, while Warrant Officers above WO1 do hold a commission (at least they do in the army), they are not in line of command whereas a Lieutenant is. It may be tradition in the Corps for an LT to forego demanding this mark of respect from an admittedly very respected and accomplished junior, it is nevertheless his or her due.
Now, with all that being said -- the one-bar rule sounds like a good and right accommodation, so long as everyone plays nice.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 12:17 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2016 12:17:46 -0400

No such thing outside of TBS, and at TBS it's more of a matter of convenience than anything else.

Response by Cpl John Mathews made May 7 at 2016 12:03 PM

Cpl John Mathews — Sat, 07 May 2016 12:03:43 -0400

The rank structure is comletely hierarchical, there are no horizontal lines that I am aware of in the officer ranks. You always salute the higher rank. Think of it this way, who is able to issue an order that the other person must carry out. The 1LT could give a lawful order that the 2LT must follow. It doesn't work the other way does it?

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 1 at 2016 3:17 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:17:29 -0400

Absolutely yes!!! I also believe that 2lts salute 1lts. It is a rank structure for a reason!!!!

Response by COL John Hudson made Jun 2 at 2016 9:15 AM

COL John Hudson — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 09:15:43 -0400

From the IG Desk: Standard military protocol requires recognition of those holding superior rank...in the form of a simple hand salute. This is to be accomplished at all times in public or formal environments which may be relaxed in informal settings, such as office areas with agreement of all concerned. Bottom line: The COMMANDER sets the tone and requirements for all such protocol within his/her command. There are situations where the act of saluting is waived; combat operations, aviation air fields, etc. Example, the Presidential Palace in Baghdad waived any and all saluting requirements there during my duty tours. Another: aviation areas are dangerous due to severe winds generated by aircraft as well as the apparent danger of the machine's propulsion systems. Area alertness is required while soft head gear and saluting are prohibited. If in doubt, always check with your local IG or environmental policies for direction.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Jun 23 at 2016 4:16 PM

CDR Michael Goldschmidt — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:16:01 -0400

Yes, warrant officers salute lieutenants. That said, it would be a foolish L-T, indeed, who pressed the issue or didn't give creedence to WOs' counsel, as though it were coming from God's own lips.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Aug 21 at 2016 11:34 PM

PO1 Jack Howell — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 23:34:52 -0400

Bullshit. A warrant officer is junior in rank to O-1 and above even though he/she has more experience. If someone mentions that one bar rule again, I suggest you ask them if they can cite the appropriate regulation. Also, I would suggest checking that out on your own so that you can give that individual a respectful correction if he/she gives you an incorrect answer.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Sep 6 at 2016 2:46 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 14:46:51 -0400

The only time Warrant Officers salute Lt's is when they tell them get off my Craft!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 4:43 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 16:43:20 -0400

Technically, yes. Commissioned officers outrank Warrants. Therefore, the salute is warranted and expected.

Response by 2LT Will Lockhart made Dec 2 at 2016 10:08 PM

2LT Will Lockhart — Fri, 02 Dec 2016 22:08:13 -0500

This is dated but even 100 years from now it will still be right. Warrant officers no matter what rank, are subordinate to a yellow (gold) bar Lieutenant. There is no circumstance where this does not apply.

As for whether a 2nd LT should salute a 1st LT, I was told if the 1st told me to salute, then I should obey and render the salute, and lift my leg for a swift kick to the groin.

Of course this was told back when men were in the vast majority of units at the time.

Response by LtCol William Bentley made Dec 3 at 2016 12:57 AM

LtCol William Bentley — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 00:57:23 -0500

This is a good question, and the answers are enlightening.

EDIT ADDED: It is important to note that the US is almost alone in treating "warranted/commissioned" technical specialists as "officers." Just as we have developed over long years the finest NCO corps of professionals, so have we developed the finest technical specialists (and classified them as officers, with pay, benefits, responsibility, authority, and respect to go along with it). Even in the NATO system, the US stands alone in recognizing any warrant officers as "officers" at all. Other countries either don't have them at all, or treat them as "Other Ranks," i.e., enlisted grades as in the UK Armed Forces where a "Warrant Officer Class 1" is equivalent to a "OR-9," or an "E-9" in the US Armed Forces.
(See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO_navies_enlisted.)

(I have a much more thorough essay on the above paragraph's topic separately added as a reply under another comment in this thread below.)

Of course each Service has its own customs and traditions. A Staff Sergeant in the Army may be a "Sergeant" when informally addressed. An Army CWO may be a "Chief." A Navy Senior Chief is NOT a "Chief"; they are a Senior. Or a Senior Chief. USMC Staff Sergeants are never called "Sergeant," and almost never "Staff." A Navy Lieutenant Commander is informally addressed as "Commander." A Marine Lieutenant Colonel may be informally addressed as "Colonel." Etc., etc.

Chapter 12 and the various Annexes of the Navy Social Usage and Protocol Handbook, OPNAVINST 1710.7A, dated 15 Jun 2001, are similar to the other Services' own Protocol Handbook on addressing others: https://www.cmu.edu/nrotc/battalion/documents%20and%20directives/directives/1710.7a.pdf

And, to address the original question more directly, the same OPNAVINST Protocol Handbook, in paragraph 1210 of Annex J (page J-4), specifically provides guidance for hand salutes. And note that there is no mention of a "one-bar rule," or anything similar. It directs all members of the (naval) services to salute all officers senior to themselves. Which would mean all enlisted members will salute any officer of any grade, and all warrant officers and chief warrant officers will salute any other chief warrant officer or second lieutenant and above senior to themselves.

As a former Marine enlisted, I would of course salute "anything that was shiny," because they all rated a salute from me.

As a young Marine second lieutenant, I quickly learned that except for formal reporting and ceremonial situations, there was indeed a "one-bar rule," and I rarely gave, or received, salutes from among the "one-bar class," i.e., the group of warrant officers, chief warrant officers, and first and second lieutenants. That all changed at the O-3/Captain grade, however, and it was at first odd to me when I began receiving salutes from every one of the "one-bar class" members.

I can't speak to when, or how, this custom began; it's not one of the written historical traditions of our Corps. Other than the rare Naval medical or dental officer, neither my enlisted nor "one-bar" days including any significant contact with any other Service officers, so I can't remember noticing a difference.

And while it not normal for enlisted Marines to salute each other, there are occasions when I have seen it done, other than formal parade/reporting occasions. No harm, no foul there, as it is neither required nor barred.

Similarly, in boot camp I distinctly remember my DI stating that Marines of any grade can salute a civilian, as long as it was done tastefully and not mocking. He was specifically instructing us on "saluting the ladies," but I recall it included instructions to salute properly if rendered to any civilian. Later I learned that quite a few civilian "worthies" rate a salute, from the local Mayor on up to the President, judges, etc., but those are mostly fuzzy because the typical Marine, even an officer, would almost never be in a situation where they would need to salute any high-ranking civilian.

Similar guidance is provided in AR 600-25 for the Army, and I'm going to just assume that the USAF, USCG, DOD, and other various agencies have wording to the same effect.

Extract of the Handbook:
(https://www.cmu.edu/nrotc/battalion/documents%20and%20directives/directives/1710.7a.pdf)

1210. Occasions for rendering hand salutes.
1. Salutes shall be rendered by persons in the naval service to officers of the armed services of
the United States, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Public Health
Service and foreign armed services.

2. All persons in the naval service shall salute all officers senior to themselves on each occasion
of meeting or passing near or when addressing or being addressed by such officers; except that:
a. On board ship, salutes shall be dispensed with after the first daily meeting, except for
those rendered to the commanding officer and officer senior to him or her, to visiting officers, to
officers making inspections, and to officers when addressing or being addressed by them.
b. When such procedure does not conflict with the spirit of these regulations, at crowded
gatherings or in congested areas, salutes shall be rendered only by a person addressing or being
addressed by an officer who is senior to him or her.
c. Persons at work or engaged in games shall salute only when addressed by an officer
senior to them and then only if circumstances warrant.
d. Persons in formation shall salute only on command.
e. When boats pass each other with embarked officers or officials in view, hand salutes
shall be rendered by the senior officer and coxswain in each boat. Officers seated in boats shall
not rise when saluting; coxswains shall rise unless it is dangerous or impracticable to do so.
f. Persons operating moving motor vehicles should not render or return salutes.
Passengers will render and return salutes.
g. Persons guarding prisoners will not salute.

Ranks and insignia of NATO navies enlisted.) - Wikipedia

Response by 2LT Will Lockhart made Jan 12 at 2017 1:16 PM

2LT Will Lockhart — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:16:08 -0500

Should? No, they are required. Doesn't matter if he is a CW5 with 30 years and he is a butter bar one month removed from college.

As for a Butter Bar saluting a half-captain, yeah right. I'd salute him and kick him and then kick him in the shin if he tried to force me to salute. LOL

Response by LtCol William Bentley made Jan 12 at 2017 5:38 PM

LtCol William Bentley — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:38:38 -0500

I assure you, Gunny, this is a "custom and courtesy" and not a rule that can withstand legal scrutiny. The Marine Guidebook, the Bluejacket's Manual, the SecNavInst on Protocol, and various other quasi- official and official regulations REQUIRE the rendering of proper acknowledgement of ANY officer senior to the servicemember. Assuming various Service policies about "under arms," "when covered or not covered," "indoors or not," "in a No-Salute Outdoors Zone" like the I MEF courtyard, when in formations, when performing fatigue and other details or in combat where saluting would be improper or dangerous, aboard naval vessels where one salute per day per officer, etc...

I, as a newly commissioned 2dLt quickly learned what you said about the "one bar rule," although until I saw a similar thread here on RP recently I had NEVER heard that name...it was just understood, that as a courtesy, the various warrant and chief warrant officers, and the lieutenants, et al., did not normally salute each other. In formations, parades, formal settings, sure, but those were rare.

However...each of the Services' has regulations that DO require proper courtesies...down to verbal greetings when possible even when not saluting.

All of this is what is taught to Marines at boot camp and OCS and TBS...an instructor stands in front of the group of new Marines and tells them, "Now, you all know you need to salute and render the proper greeting of the day to all officers whenever you encounter them between 6-30 paces from you. If you need to pass an officer walking the same way as you, you initiate the salute, give the greeting of the day, and ask for permission "by your leave" to pass the officer. The officer will return your salute and greeting, and either give permission, or deny it to you, in which case you will simply walk along behind the officer until you get where you are going. It's that simple...."

No instructor will ever tell anyone in a formal setting all of the preceding and then add, "But...the 'one-bars' don't have to comply with Service regulations and do any of that stuff...just look at each other and walk on by...don't worry, the UCMJ doesn't apply to you when you do that, so you can't be charged with anything..."

I cannot recall in my 4+ years as a lieutenant ever saluting any other "one bar," nor do I recall this ever being a problem and somebody making a stink about it. I never took offense as either 2d or 1stLt if any WO or CWO didn't salute me, because it was the custom of the Service. Plus, my brother in law was a CWO3 in my same infantry battalion for my first tour as a 2dLt in the Fleet. I would have felt very odd returning the salute from the best man in my wedding every time we met walking around the Battalion spaces...

After I was a Captain, I never remember having any lieutenant or WO/CWO of any grade, up to CWO5, NOT salute me.

WO/CWO are too professional as Marine officers to push where they don't need to push...the unwritten rules don't include Captains.

Semper,
W. Bentley, LtCol USMCR (Ret)

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2017 4:54 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 16:54:55 -0500

As a former Gunny now a retired CWO3 since 1994, it is my professional experience that if a Second Lieutenant is in the area and is by passing me, I would salute him or her. I don't think that any of us who were enlisted and selected for our Warrant Officer rank and file would disagree with me. While at the Basic School for Warrant Officer Basic Training, I had asked my Platoon Commander, who was a Captain why the Marine Second Lieutenants avoided us Warrants. You know what he told me, they all have too much respect for our Satus as Officers of Marines. Well as a Gunnery Sargeant I was fortunate enough to know better than some about military protocol and saluting officers. In my own opinion I think that Gunnys rule period. In the Officer Corps, I think the Warrant Officers don't have to prove anything to anyone except to themselves. Why do you think Warrant Officers go LDO, Limited Duty Officer route? Yep it's the rank and responsibility but also for the money. Just my food for thought. Carry-on Marine and have a great day.
Semper Fidelis,
CWO3 Kaupe, USMC, (Ret)

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 19 at 2017 11:44 PM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:44:42 -0500

Yes

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Jan 20 at 2017 10:35 PM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 22:35:11 -0500

Like I have said before, I am enlisted through and through. Now that I have that out of the way, UH YES A SALUTE IS IN ORDER! It's a sign of respect to the rank, I don't care how many years you have in the service, respect the rank-honor the code.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jan 22 at 2017 1:44 PM

1LT William Clardy — Sun, 22 Jan 2017 13:44:23 -0500

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member, I have to call BS on the Marines having a "one bar rule".

I have never met a Marine who was unwilling to check out a second bar if it was within safe staggering distance....

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2017 6:50 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Jan 2017 18:50:42 -0500

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2017 1:06 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 13:06:20 -0500

Everyone should salute up and down the chain. The salute is to the office not the person. If it's inconvenient or you're too cool for it, you're in the wrong business. Get out and work in the civilian world where it's not necessary.

Response by CW2 Pamela (Carpenter) Wolf made Feb 11 at 2017 2:18 PM

CW2 Pamela (Carpenter) Wolf — Sat, 11 Feb 2017 14:18:58 -0500

After reading all the responses below, I must weigh in with one memorable experience in the saluting world as a fresh W01 out of flight school. In 1977, I was already an E5 with 4 yrs time in service when I was accepted into flight school, so I was not an instant "zero to W-O" type of graduate. My first assignment after graduation was as the XO of the HHC (Headquarters and Headquarters Company) of the 19th Aviation Battalion at Camp Humphreys, Korea (my second tour there.) I'll admit, I was new at the saluting game, but if an enlisted person did not salute me, I did take a moment to "mercifully" correct them on the spot. I got many responses when that happened, including apologies for not seeing my rank, etc, but the best one that I heard was memorable. An E5 and E6 were approaching me, passed me, and no salutes. When I locked their heels to give them a chance to explain their lack of respect, I was told by the E5 that they thought the regulations said they did not have to salute females... the NERVE! I still believe that they thought I would actually buy that one as an excuse. I am always a level-headed thinker on my feet, but I admit, on that day, I ripped that sergeant a new one.

Response by CW2 Fred Baker made Feb 20 at 2017 12:31 AM

CW2 Fred Baker — Mon, 20 Feb 2017 00:31:33 -0500

I didn't wear my Army uniform to my son's graduation at Great Lakes. Just before they were all released, I had to visit the head. When I came out, I thought I would never find him in the crowd and started for my original seat. Luckily I heard his voice and tapped his shoulder. He turned around and exclaimed, "Chief!" Then he saluted. I was then tapped on the shoulder and the Admiral, who had charge of the base and also spoke that day, asked me if I was a former naval chief. I responded that I was a former CW2 helicopter pilot in the Army. She stepped back and rendered a very smart salute. The odd thing was that afterwards every officer at that gathering didn't know who I was, but if the Admiral was saluting me, so were they.

Response by TSgt James (Daniel) Shaw made Feb 22 at 2017 10:02 PM

TSgt James (Daniel) Shaw — Wed, 22 Feb 2017 22:02:38 -0500

IMO. All officers are to be saluted by every member of the armed forces. This is cut and dry. No room for interpretation. End of story.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Feb 23 at 2017 7:55 AM

1LT Aaron Barr — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 07:55:54 -0500

That's not my understanding of how that works. If one were to imagine the military rank structure like a totem pole, enlisted would be the lowest, warrants above them and commissioned officers at the top, each level with a rank structure within it. I never encountered a WO who did not salute me when we were in uniform and outdoors during my time in the service and as far as I know, that's exactly as it should've been.

Response by 1LT Vance Titus made Feb 23 at 2017 1:28 PM

1LT Vance Titus — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:28:36 -0500

The basic answer is yes. Rank is to be respected, the wearer of the rank has to earn respect. I had the privilege of working with a number of warrant officers whom I respected greatly. My unit was saved by a couple of warrant officer helicopter pilots whom I would salute wherever and when ever I saw them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2017 11:12 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Feb 2017 23:12:15 -0500

I've met a total of eight Warrant Officers thus far. Five of them are in my field (JAG), one of them was the XO of a Company, one is in my OSJA now, and the other three were JAG Marines. Of the other three I think one was a part of an S3 under a Major.

Should a Warrant salute a Lieutenant? Yes, customs and courtesies. Does it always happen? I suppose not. I did see a 2LT salute a CW2 though, and that was interesting.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 27 at 2017 1:10 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 01:10:35 -0500

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member You actually burdened a butter-bar LT with weighty matters?

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Feb 27 at 2017 6:00 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:00:48 -0500

Damn right. Difference in warrants and commissions, an officer and gentleman by act of Congress. Too, chain of command must exist.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2017 12:41 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:41:37 -0500

Should a 7 year E4 stand a parade rest when talking to a 3 year E5?

That's what these questions sound like.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Mar 23 at 2017 12:15 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 00:15:47 -0400

Of course a Warrant Officer would salute a Lieutenant, for the same reason and enlisted man would, the Lieutenant outranks both of them. Also for the same reason a 2Lt would be required to salute a 1Lt. There are no exceptions to this rule, the salute isn't an option, its a requirement. It is proper also however the Lieutenant is expected to return that salute as a sign of respect between Military members.

Response by Capt Andrew Hairston made Mar 23 at 2017 9:42 AM

Capt Andrew Hairston — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:42:53 -0400

I notice the majority of top responses on this are from soldiers. In the Marine Corps, we go to school with the Warrant Officers at Quantico and a lot of times work alongside them. The majority of us don't look for salutes from them because of the "One Bar Club."

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Mar 26 at 2017 9:14 PM

Sgt Charles Welling — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 21:14:32 -0400

Where does this nonsense come from? Warrant Officers salute superior officers, that means 2Lts. WTF? 2Lt salute 1Lt. Groan..............

Response by LCpl Stephen Arnold made Mar 28 at 2017 6:27 PM

LCpl Stephen Arnold — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 18:27:28 -0400

No, they should spank them and send them to bed with no dinner!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2017 6:40 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 18:40:46 -0400

Technically, sure a chief salutes an LT, but I can say that even as a CPT, if a chief doesn't salute me, especially if no one else is there to see it, I'm not about to throw a fit. Of course after >10 years enlisted before I commissioned, I still wonder what officer is behind me when I am saluted. It may not be absolutely correct, but when I come across the "tower" or the "light saber" I try to salute first in deference to my brothers and sisters who have given so much of their lives to serving our great nation. That being said, I'm also not about to stop and "correct" a Sergeant Major who may not salute me right away. There has to be an unwritten respect for these great warriors.

Response by MGySgt David McWatters made Apr 19 at 2017 9:07 PM

MGySgt David McWatters — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:07:54 -0400

Although 2d Lts outrank all Warrant Officers, proper discipline is that the Lt (2d or 1st) holds the Warrant Officers in extremely high regard and the Warrant Officer will always salute first. This is the Marine way. When I was a 2d Lt, then, 1st Lt as a result of a direct commission during the Vietnam War, when I was a Gunnery Sergeant. Every protocol fell right into place. Marines are good about that.

Response by CWO2 Richard Rose made Apr 27 at 2017 9:54 PM

CWO2 Richard Rose — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:54:12 -0400

Chief Warrant Officers are commissioned officers. A salute is a sign of respect for the uniform. Leadership is done by setting the example.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made May 4 at 2017 1:48 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Thu, 04 May 2017 13:48:03 -0400

To answer your question, Army warrant officers rarely salute each other - the exception seems to be new WO1's saluting CW2's and up. As a CW4 I could care less if a CW2 or CW3 salutes me - this may cause some ruffled feathers for a few but that's just me.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2017 10:11 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 May 2017 22:11:10 -0400

It really depends on the individual who they know. But, yes normally if we CWO's knew each other we would recognize each other and just say a greeting to acknowledge one another. The funny thing is that a lot of CWO's put in for the LImited Duty Officer (LDO) program, then if their dealing with CWO's they would have there CWO rank insignia on the flip side of their blouse cover. When I first seen this I was in awe but then to each his own I guess.
Semper Fi Mac

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made May 13 at 2017 12:05 PM

CW3 Harvey K. — Sat, 13 May 2017 12:05:00 -0400

As a "wobbly one", I saluted anything with bright-work on collar or cover. I was THE junior officer of the division for several months (I used to produce the Officer Roster, and I was the last entry).

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made May 19 at 2017 4:35 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Fri, 19 May 2017 16:35:13 -0400

Who really give a heck it they do or don't I was always told Warrants were in charge of their aircraft if crew chiefs or pilots but once they were on the ground they were lower than a lieutenant. I always thought they were a bridge between the Officer ranks and Enlisted ranks.

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2017 8:56 AM

LtCol Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 May 2017 08:56:06 -0400

"Welcome to the rank of Warrant Officer. You have just gone from saluting half of the service to the entire service."

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2017 8:53 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 May 2017 20:53:30 -0400

It is simple, yes. A 2LT out ranks a CWO5 and below. The regulations are in black and white. As an NCO it is my job to ensure that these regulations are adhered to. It makes it a lot harder when senior enlisted and officers don't obey the orders themselves let alone a new privat. Demonstrate moral courage and do what is right all the time.

Response by GySgt Dennis Gilbert made Jun 1 at 2017 1:42 PM

GySgt Dennis Gilbert — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 13:42:18 -0400

During my career the CWO's always explained there was a one bar rule but many of the Gunner's I worked with, being former hat's assured me that if you didn't know the other officer and they outranked you, then of course you render the appropriate salute and greeting. Common sense. I'm sure a lot of the junior folks might find this thread interesting. Good job posting sir.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2017 12:26 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:26:01 -0400

Officers ALL respect the rank of senior officers. Yes, Warrants do & SHOULD salute Lts.

Response by LTC Patrick Turner made Jun 11 at 2017 7:00 PM

LTC Patrick Turner — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 19:00:24 -0400

Yes, the subordinate officer should salute, ESPECIALLY in formations because we all know, the commissioned officer will have command. We don't have to be over the top about it in a more informal setting though.

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Jun 11 at 2017 9:02 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 21:02:38 -0400

It continues to amaze me how many times a version of this question gets asked. It's not that complicated! So why......

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 22 at 2017 1:15 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 22 Jun 2017 13:15:06 -0400

I believe all WOs are subordinate in rank to all commissioned officers, even 2nd Lts. As an Air Force officer, I would have expected any WO to salute me. Actually the AF did away with WOs about the time I was commissioned, so I never saw one for many years of service. Most of my 2nd Lt time was spent at a pilot training base and we saluted 1st Lts. Once I ran across Army WOs I was a captain or above and they always rendered appropriate courtesies.

I don't see saluting and rendering military courtesy to more senior officers as a big deal. It's all part of serving and honors both the person who gives the salute and the one who returns it. A "Good morning, sir" costs nothing, but can build good will and mutual respect. I was always proud to be able to respond correctly to WOs and Enlisted persons of my own and other Services. "Good morning, Chief" equally cost me nothing.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2017 6:57 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 18:57:12 -0400

I'm especially proud to salute 2nd lieutenants and all offers to include fellow warrant officer.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 9:24 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 21:24:38 -0400

As a W01 at FLW, MO in 2010, I had a young 2LT salute me one morning walking to the school house building. That rank looks very similar to that of a 1LT.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 11:34 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 23:34:07 -0400

While I can come up with several "old crusty Chief Warrant Officer" and "sure if you can find the warrant officer" references and jokes; the answer is an emphatic YES.

Yes, there are some Warrant Officers (as I am sure there are LTs) that do not salute each other if they are only one rank apart, however, that does not mean it is appropriate.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 6:24 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 06:24:50 -0400

Was never a problem in USMC. O's are mostly Bill, Bob, and Joe anyway, but any CWO knows where he fits in same as the Lieutenants. Never ever saw any Lt expect or ask for a salute. Don't remember any CWO's rendering one either. It wasn't any sign of disrespect but more of an understanding that we are all in the same boat. We were all Platoon Commanders. Whenever I had a Lt for a Company CO it was expected and rendered because no matter what rank he's the Skipper. It's a sign of respect and sets an example for the Company that this is our CO and he will be respected. Before CWO5's came along I knew several CWO4's that had 8-10 years in grade. Some of them would almost act in a fatherly way to junior LtCol BN CO's. The advice and counsel was welcomed without fail. They saluted the CO proudly also because they were Old Corps and they too knew where they fit in the big picture. The BN CO is the Old Man and is held in that regard.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2017 12:33 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 12:33:02 -0400

Please Gunny, give this Gunner former Gunny a break. We should let all the Officers salute our enlisted men and women who actually get the mission accomplished.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Aug 2 at 2017 6:03 PM

SGT James Murphy — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 18:03:28 -0400

They did when I served!

Response by CW4 Dana Ahl made Aug 17 at 2017 1:10 PM

CW4 Dana Ahl — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:10:51 -0400

Always.

Response by Richie Mata made Sep 3 at 2017 5:31 AM

Richie Mata — Sun, 03 Sep 2017 05:31:55 -0400

I'm not in the military, but thought about it in my youth. I wanted the military discipline. I am researching rank for a fictional book that I am writing. Anyway, to chime in as a dumb shit civilian regarding this thread. Which one works for a living?

Response by LtCol Matthew Rajkovich made Oct 11 at 2017 1:16 PM

LtCol Matthew Rajkovich — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:16:39 -0400

Sadly this should not be a topic. However, it appears that people have lost a little sight on the pupose of saluting. If you think its purpose is to establish seniority... You're wrong. We already know rank structure, and saluting doesn't improve or change that. It is, however, a "custom and coutesy," not a personal metric of self-importance. When service members meet we "exchange" a greeting to acknowledge each other as bad asses. ... As teammates distinct from those who elect not to where the uniform. Sisters and brothers from different mother. The ritual of who initiates and who returns the gesture is an administrative question at best. Someone has to be first, so its the senior rank that goes last. Keep it simple. Officers who get their skivvies in a knot because they weren't rendered the prompt and proper salute might want to review the reputation they carry among those that they presume to lead. Conversly, servicemembers who initiate salutes can read much by the returns they get, either about the officer or maybe about yourself. An old artillery officer told me a story of how he once made a game of attempting to beat the salute of those who iniatied the greeting. One would begin to salute him and he'd reach the bill of his cover first. This practice eventually ineffected the unit as others tried to beat him or copy the ritual. Morale and cohesion benefitted as a result of this simple gesture. That was one of my earliest lessons I received about salutes. My view has always remained this; how you salute usually has more to do with YOU (reflects on you) than it does the person with whom you exchange.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 11 at 2017 9:12 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 21:12:36 -0400

Should an officer salute a senior officer that they feel is inferior to them? That's basically the core of this question and we all know the answer is yes.

Response by SSG Billie Dalton made Nov 5 at 2017 7:21 PM

SSG Billie Dalton — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 19:21:33 -0500

Yes.

Response by SPC(P) Mark Newman made Dec 1 at 2017 5:45 PM

SPC(P) Mark Newman — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 17:45:52 -0500

"When in doubt, throw one out."
Id rather laugh about accidentally saluting an E-3 than cry about failing to salute an O-3.

Response by Cpl Kurt Huber made Jan 16 at 2018 12:03 PM

Cpl Kurt Huber — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 12:03:51 -0500

Why is this a question?
Seriously?
Did you not learn the rank structure?
You don't have to respect the man, but you are required to respect the rank of that man, regardless.
A CWO-5 is NOT a Commissioned Officer, thus even a Second Lieutenant technically "outranks" the CWO-5.
Time in Grade and Time in Service have NOTHING to do with who's who or what's what.
We all know a CWO has Time in Service, but even Audie Murphy wore a gold bar at one time, so who's to know if that Second Lieutenant smells like the uniform shop or not.

Response by SPC Kody Smith made Jan 18 at 2018 1:21 PM

SPC Kody Smith — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:21:49 -0500

Hold on is this an official rules or is it just one of those general unwritten rules that someone made up? Maybe we should just have them respectfully spit in there own hands and shake on it as a rule lol jk. There's so meny rules and rags it's ridiculous and needs some serious updating.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2018 5:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 05:52:23 -0500

I cannot speak for the USMC. I really didn't pay attention as to whether they saluted each other. As a general rule I tended to leave my WOs & CWOs alone. They were far too valuable and in most situations knew a lot more than I did. My 180A was the subject matter expert on just about everything we might be doing and he taught me how to actually complete the task at hand with the fewest waves. A truly awesome soldier.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jan 19 at 2018 7:43 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 07:43:24 -0500

I fail to see why these questions come up, Yes, many CWOs esp and NCOs have far more experience than most 2Lts, (unless they had prior enlisted or Warrant Offer service). The salute is still required, as an NCO then Senior NCO I had no problem saluting a 2Lt and neither should anyone else. The exchange of salutes isn't optional, its required and besides its a mutual show of respect between fighting Men and women. We don't get to make our own rules as to rending a salute or not. If the person outranks You then salute, if He is a higher ranking warrant officer than You salute, none of this is optional and not following the rules sets a poor example for others of lower rank.

Response by Sgt Tee Organ made Jan 19 at 2018 10:28 AM

Sgt Tee Organ — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 10:28:20 -0500

Why is this even a discussion?

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 19 at 2018 7:38 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 19:38:43 -0500

IMHO, yes!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2018 9:12 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 21:12:19 -0500

I didn’t become a Warrant Officer to get saluted. I don’t care about salutes, but when I do, it’s because I salute every officer (even an Ensign with 60 days of service) I see coming my way.

Response by SFC Daniel Johns made Jan 22 at 2018 9:31 AM

SFC Daniel Johns — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 09:31:35 -0500

I spent 30 years in the Army and all the warrant officers always ask me not to salute them or call them sir unless there was someone above the commander around

Response by CWO2 Duane Austin made May 31 at 2018 10:46 AM

CWO2 Duane Austin — Thu, 31 May 2018 10:46:19 -0400

If they are of higher rank then proper respect is due

Response by MSgt Ronnie Kelly made May 31 at 2018 11:51 AM

MSgt Ronnie Kelly — Thu, 31 May 2018 11:51:23 -0400

If they are wearing anything but stripes, Salute it

Response by LtCol Lloyd Holbert made May 31 at 2018 3:00 PM

LtCol Lloyd Holbert — Thu, 31 May 2018 15:00:02 -0400

I spent 22 years in the Corps, both enlisted and officer, and never heard of the “one bar rule.” In addition, I was an SPC and an instructor at The Basic School and that was never taught. Rendering a salute and giving an appropriate greeting of the day to a senior officer WAS taught.

Response by CW2 Kris Carroll made May 31 at 2018 3:57 PM

CW2 Kris Carroll — Thu, 31 May 2018 15:57:55 -0400

I actually had several 2nd LTs salute me. Always good for a laugh

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 12:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 00:03:44 -0400

Why is this even a topic?
When in doubt, whip it out as the saying goes.

Response by SGT Philip Puza made Jun 1 at 2018 12:38 PM

SGT Philip Puza — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:38:15 -0400

Wait a minute....... I always thought that Warrant Officers had a special button on their belts to make them invisible. Lmao

Response by SFC Gregory Fitzhugh made Jun 1 at 2018 2:11 PM

SFC Gregory Fitzhugh — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:11:07 -0400

I am a retired SFC spent 20 in the Army
And did my time as Drill sergeant and as I remember the regulations say you will salute any officer senior to you this is part of why the military is going to shit officer's don't want act like officer's and enlisted and NCOs don't give a shit

Response by 1SG Phillip Newton made Jun 1 at 2018 3:07 PM

1SG Phillip Newton — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:07:20 -0400

Another ignorant question. Does the lieutenant out rank you, if so you salute the lieutenant. I’ll ask this question again, who comes up with these questions?

Response by CW2 Robert Wylie made Jun 1 at 2018 10:02 PM

CW2 Robert Wylie — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 22:02:21 -0400

Yes, as a commissioned officer he/she outranks a Warrant officer

Response by CW4 Robert Goldsmith made Jun 5 at 2018 3:30 AM

CW4 Robert Goldsmith — Tue, 05 Jun 2018 03:30:52 -0400

I received a phone call a few days ago from the Pentagon. It was a friend of mine who is a Lieutenant Colonel. We shared laughs and reminisced because 15 years ago he was a young First Lieutenant that I was showing how to pack for a deployment, his first. He was the Company XO. I saluted all officers senior to me because it is what professional service members do. I also had a great mentor who said to me when I was a Warrant Officer selectee, "Take care of Lieutenants because Lieutenants become Generals." What that means is for Warrant Officers to utilize their experience, show young officers how to be professionals and what right looks like. If you don't believe that a superior ranking officer is worthy of a salute, then you're not worthy of wearing the uniform anymore.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 7 at 2018 5:50 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 17:50:44 -0400

Yes they should.

Response by CW5 David Heggood made Aug 9 at 2018 2:11 PM

CW5 David Heggood — Thu, 09 Aug 2018 14:11:00 -0400

Absolutely,
Part of our job as a Warrant Officer is also to be a mentor to young officers, including young Warrant Officers. As a mentor I always felt it necessary to inform young officers of what to expect from their subordinates. I always showed these young officers where I found the answer because one never knows where that answer may go. in this case AR 600-25 Salutes,Honors, and Visits of Courtesy. It is always initiated by the one of lessor rank. In addition, that young Lieutenant may become a General Officer some day and I always wanted to ensure they could trust the advise given from a Warrant Officer because of their professional standard.

Response by PO3 Randall Johnson made Sep 13 at 2018 9:05 AM

PO3 Randall Johnson — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 09:05:30 -0400

YES! The 1st LTs are your superior rank. Show your respect and salute!

Response by LTJG John Cadrain made Sep 23 at 2018 6:39 PM

LTJG John Cadrain — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 18:39:42 -0400

This discussion can go ad infinitum !! I was a HMCS , E-8 when I got commissioned , MSC LT, I preferred being called senior!! Better that all!

Response by SGT James Murphy made Oct 6 at 2018 6:30 PM

SGT James Murphy — Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:30:12 -0400

They always Did when I was Active!

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Nov 27 at 2018 3:53 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:53:32 -0500

So your 2nd lieutenant and 1st lieutenant need some refresher training on the Customs and Courtesies of the Naval Service? Because obviously they don't know what they are talking about.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2018 6:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Dec 2018 18:40:37 -0500

I think that if you're not insecure about who you are, what you've done and what you bring to the table, you won't have an issue with it. A lieutenant's lack of experience where show where your expertise (as a Warrant and/or NCO) will dominate. My old division PBO (920A) whom is a CW4 once told me that he represents a professional cohort and he will not contribute to giving a newly commissioned officer a bad impression of the community. That stuck with me but the bottom line is, the salute is for them; it isn't for me. We all know the brigade CSM has more influence over the organization than one of the 100 platoon leader lieutenants in his/her brigade.

Response by TSgt Shawn Farris made Dec 2 at 2018 3:22 AM

TSgt Shawn Farris — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 03:22:10 -0500

First off, the rank structure serves a purpose, and it should be respected regardless. But I think you fail to understand what the salute represents. First, the salute is a rendering of honors reserved for warriors, to show you hold no arms against who you saulte. You need to understand that, to understand that technically the higher grade officer is required to salute regardless if the lower rank initiates or not (enlisted or commissioned). I recommend you have a conversation about this with any field grade or higher level officer, if you feel the need to confirm.
All this goes back to the tradition of the warriors recognizing the honor in other warriors. That aside, warrants and 1lts are tired of saluting, and butter bars are happy to not have to salute everything shiney, or for that matter, everyone period. (Think about it).

Response by CW2 Geoff Lachance made Dec 2 at 2018 7:31 AM

CW2 Geoff Lachance — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 07:31:32 -0500

I retired CW2 in “96”. I was the only warrant in the company but one of four platoon leaders. The other three were 2LT’s and 1LT’s. There was a mutual bond between us and i was most respected by them. It had allot to do with the fact that I was always going to be subordinate to them in rank but because I was a permanent fixture and they were basically passing through, they relied on my knowledge. Due in part to the respect they gave me, I always felt it an honor to render the salute. Such a bond!

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2018 11:02 AM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 11:02:25 -0500

I spent 26 years in the Navy and never experienced an issue regarding rank structure and the question of who salutes who...never a question amongst the Navy and Marine Corps. BUT, the eight months I was assigned to the 18th ABC and NMCI at Camp Victory, Baghdad was a culture change experiencing how the warrant officer corps operated within the Army. In my limited experience, it appeared the army warrant corps believes they are a parallel rank structure to commissioned officers...not subordinate to commissioned officers. And the army senior leadership fostered this structure. For example an army W-5 was provided billeting better than an O-5 and some had vehicles. A W-5 at sea would have been assigned berthing with the ensigns - LCDRs...no special privileges. No kidding, I actually over heard a conversation between two army W-5s that they should rate an aide similar to an O-7. The army culture is very different.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2018 11:44 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 11:44:53 -0500

2LT is right.

Response by Sgt Daniel J. Daly made Dec 2 at 2018 9:40 PM

Sgt Daniel J. Daly — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 21:40:27 -0500

Never heard of the “One Bar Rule”. A 2D Lt is junior in rank to a 1st Lt and therefore should salute his senior. In the same token the Warrant Officer should salute the 2D Lt. As he is senior in rank to the Warrant Officer. Now I can see the confusion due to the fact each one of these Officer usually serve as Platoon Commanders.

Response by SSgt Paul Murray made Dec 2 at 2018 11:50 PM

SSgt Paul Murray — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:50:53 -0500

The one bar rule? What the hell is a military coming too especially the Marines, never heard of such a thing. The lower rank always initiates the salute to the higher ranking officer except in a combat area.

Response by CW5 Jerry Grabowski made Dec 3 at 2018 11:41 AM

CW5 Jerry Grabowski — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:41:22 -0500

We salute the rank. Saluting is a mark of professionalism. Garrison duty should not be confused with a tactical environment!

Response by SSG David Ursini made Dec 3 at 2018 1:15 PM

SSG David Ursini — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 13:15:33 -0500

It's an honor to render a salute which is a form of a greeting. Plus, I always enjoyed staying my unit motto " I Yield Not, I Strike Sir! " Or as an Airborne troop..." All The Way Sir/Ma'am! In which case the Officer responded with "Air Assault!" or "Airborne!" if so qualified. It's good esprit de corps too!

Response by LCDR Tim McKenzie made Dec 3 at 2018 5:43 PM

LCDR Tim McKenzie — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 17:43:41 -0500

Salute and do it with pride. I remember being a LTJG, and being saluted by great men that were my fathers age. It was uncomfortable at first. I asked a Command Master Chief what he thought about it. He said that the system demands it. And that he takes orders with that in mind. He added that the system would break down if individuals decided on their own who they would salute or take orders from. Later I was passed over. I saluted those younger officers who passed my by with pride. It was a sort of “circle of life.”

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Dec 3 at 2018 8:19 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 20:19:53 -0500

Why is this even a question? Yes!

Response by LT Don Mead made Dec 4 at 2018 7:33 PM

LT Don Mead — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 19:33:13 -0500

Former Naval Officer, now working as a civilian for the military. Hate it, greetings are awkward. Very simple to snap a salute or return a salute with a happy salutation.

Response by LT Terry Lober made Dec 11 at 2018 10:55 AM

LT Terry Lober — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 10:55:09 -0500

In the USN it is. Don't know about Army. But an O-1 is a Commissioned officer. A WO is not. Any ensign outranks all WO's.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2018 10:48 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:48:38 -0500

Absolutely. A Warrant Officer, no matter W-1 or W-5 is still junior in grade to a commissioned officer.

Response by SPC Todd Homman made Dec 18 at 2018 1:37 PM

SPC Todd Homman — Tue, 18 Dec 2018 13:37:36 -0500

Same answer as 1st/2nd LT, its about rank, respect, honor, tradition, LTs out rank WOs. Yes it is "odd", for lack of a better word, to see a 45 yr old WO saluting a 22 yr old 2nd LT but that is the ranking system. I do pray the 2nd LT has the knowledge and respect to LISTEN and LEARN from the CWO and to NOT think he knows more/better! Have seen this too many times unfortunately. SMH

Response by CWO4 Jim Doran made Dec 20 at 2018 11:05 AM

CWO4 Jim Doran — Thu, 20 Dec 2018 11:05:43 -0500

Gunny, your LTs are wrong. A salute to a JO is required the first time you see the individual every day. The salute is not a matter of subservience but a matter of respect.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2018 10:59 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Dec 2018 10:59:55 -0500

Total bullshit. I am a WO1 and I ALWAYS salute CW's and Lt's. It's the way its written in the regulation, so I abide by that. Anything else, is just plain stupidiy.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2018 9:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:04:34 -0500

Historians believe it began in late Roman times when assassinations were common. A citizen who wanted to see a public official had to approach with his right hand raised to show that he did not hold a weapon. Knights in armor raised visors with the right hand when meeting a comrade.

This practice gradually became a way of showing respect and, in early American history, sometimes involved removing the hat. By 1820, the motion was modified to touching the hat, and since then it has become the Hand Salute used today.

In British history, in the early 1800s, the Coldstream Guards amended the British military salute custom of tipping the hat. They were instructed to clap their hands to their hats and bow as they pass by. This was quickly adopted by other Regiments as wear and tear on the hats by constant removal and replacing was a matter of great concern. By the mid 19th Century, the salute had evolved further with the open hand, palm to the front, and this has remained the case since then.

Most historians believe, however, that the U.S. Military salute was influenced more by the British Navy. The Naval salute differs from the "Open Hand" British Army Salute in that the palm of the hand faces down towards the shoulder. This dates back to the days of sailing ships when tar and pitch were used to seal the timber from seawater. To protect their hands, officers wore white gloves, and it was considered most undignified to present a dirty palm in the salute, so the hand was turned through 90 degrees.

When to Salute
The salute is a courteous exchange of greetings, with the junior member always saluting first. When returning or rendering an individual salute, the head and eyes are turned toward the Colors or person saluted. When in ranks, the position of attention is maintained unless otherwise directed. Salute from enlisted to enlisted are presenting to the president of the Soldier/Promotion board, or back in the '80s and back during payday to the pay officer(usually an NCO).

Military personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled (by grade) to a salute except when it is inappropriate or impractical (in public conveyances such as planes and buses, in public places such as inside theaters or shopping malls, or when driving a vehicle). Other impractical places within military working places are FTX, flight lines, and combat zones. I was active for 12 years enlisted and now a reservist SNCO and if i stop by my unit in civilians and recognize one officer i simply salute, nothing wrong with it. HAND SALUTE IS SIMPLY COURTESY.

Response by CPO Dave Royce made Dec 27 at 2018 6:55 AM

CPO Dave Royce — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 06:55:05 -0500

Well other things may have changed in the Military, But paying proper respect to higher ranking officer is not one of them , yes 2nd Lt,
Salute 1st Lt , and Warrant Officer Salute 2nd Lt. And you can take that to the Bank .

Response by 2LT Evan Arguello made Dec 29 at 2018 10:41 AM

2LT Evan Arguello — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 10:41:41 -0500

I pretty much considered warrants the same rank as I was, and didn't expect them to salute me. Then again, since I was 27 with 9 years enlisted when I was commissioned, I was even the same age as a lot of them during my years as a lieutenant.

Response by CPO Zack Lindsey made Jan 8 at 2019 10:21 AM

CPO Zack Lindsey — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:21:45 -0500

In the words of a well known movie “ WHAT IN THE WIDE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS IS GOING ON HERE “ why is this even have to be spoke of. Like others have all ready said this is a greeting, a show of respect, next thing you know someone will be asking should a seaman salute a ensign. So give that salute. My self times I go thru the gate and see the MP, SP. AP, ( and you can tell what can see just what kind of day the person is having by the way they render the salute to the person but I have to say 8 out of 10 times they are sharp and crisp very seldom they are anything less.

Response by Maj Charles Porter made Jan 14 at 2019 8:48 PM

Maj Charles Porter — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 20:48:14 -0500

I salute everyone and include a greating. Good morning Marine, Sir, or rank if known. I'll salute a junior first to save confusion. This is an honor between warriors, who salutes first is less important then the act it self.

Response by 1LT John Antosy made Jan 16 at 2019 11:06 AM

1LT John Antosy — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 11:06:09 -0500

I served during the Nam days and I was around my share of rotary wing aviators and most of them were CWO'S. The young CW1's we're all Fly Guys they had no troop Duty responsibilities except the fly there uh-1b helicopters I found them lacking of discipline best way to describe them is that they were prima donnas and it was a day came about where I had a feel of their behavior on post now mind you this is after the war was winding down and I was stationed at Fort Meade Maryland and two of these clowns were approaching me in the Battalion area and we're completely lackadaisical in any kind of courtesy to render anyone so I just had my fill and I pulled rank on them and I'm nothing but a mere second Lieutenant when I locked their heels and I made their asshoes pucker with the way I dressed them down. Normally I would have overlooked it it really didn't matter anything at all to me and I don't care about more than officer clowns to begin with they do their job and they stay away from me and I have my unit to attend to but I'm not going to tolerate lack of military courtesy and discipline I reminded them the importance of the grade that they were saluting and I pointed out to them that I am their Superior commissioned officer and I expect to be afforded the courtesy that I deserve as An Officer and a Gentleman. Basically it's just got to the point where enough is enough and I intervene for their own well-being if in fact you're going to walk around without any kind of situational awareness and they weren't even covered down with headgear so it is what it is and hopefully that encounter made them better soldiers and aviators as I would expect to be dressed down to myself if in fact I was out of line and not being proper

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jan 21 at 2019 10:16 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 22:16:47 -0500

Yes, officers are required to initiate a salute with all officers whose rank is senior.

BTW, Why is this even a topic for discussion? It is just as mind numbingly redundant as the “Should 2LT’s salute 1LT’s” discussion. These are topics best suited for armchair warriors that have wayyyy too much time on their hands.

Response by CW2 Mitchell Holmes made Jan 27 at 2019 6:03 AM

CW2 Mitchell Holmes — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 06:03:50 -0500

Retired warrant weighing in - oh yes. In addition to the expert comments my brethren have already stated, it’s important also because you never know who’s watching, as in junior Soldiers or Marines. It’s important for them to see that “Chief does the right thing” at all times.

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Jan 27 at 2019 9:38 AM

LTC Stephan Porter — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:38:12 -0500

I know this is an old thread...

When I was a 2LT I was working a few months in the support operations shop, above the Motor Pool and 3rd shop we ran. There was an old, stereotypical CW4 who wouldn’t salute any of the LTs that we saw. One day he and I had a chance to talk and I asked him about saluting. I told him as a former NCO I got it, that I understood the relationship of senior NCOs/CWOs and LTs. I knew I only “out ranked” him, but not senior to him. There was a much better way to phrase that, but that is what I said. I told him though that even though we all knew he was was not subordinate to us, that the Soldiers see him not saluting and I believed then (still do) that it did not send a good message to the those who saw it. His reply was that he didn’t salute anyone below the Battalion Commander. < Sigh >. He was the minority of Warrants I experienced, but there were others back then, fewer to none now though.

Response by SSG Tommy Garmon made Feb 1 at 2019 4:01 PM

SSG Tommy Garmon — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 16:01:36 -0500

Used to We addressed Warrants as Mister . if you want a salute in garrison I will gladly do so.. If you want one in the field.. I will give you one like this" while pointing with left hand. And saluting with the right.. I will say Snipers in The Area Sir! Which usually ends the over zealous saluting

Response by SP5 Jeannie Carle made Feb 2 at 2019 12:44 AM

SP5 Jeannie Carle — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 00:44:09 -0500

OK - I'm neither of the above, but it annoys me that this is even a question. If I see an officer - or a WARRANT OFFICER - a salute is in order. When enlisted I had a shy WO1 who would not initiate - or salute back. Sooo, me being the mouthy person I used to be, I said , EXCUSE ME! I do believe you're supposed to return my salute!". I embarrassed him, but he began returning salutes, and holding his head up instead of looking at the ground.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Feb 2 at 2019 5:43 AM

SSgt W. Aaron Gregory — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 05:43:52 -0500

A "One-Bar Rule?". Who created this??? Both SNCOs and field-grades expect more from you, I would think.

Consult the rank and insignia chart. Enlisted personnel salute all officers. All officers of junior ranks salute officers of senior rank. It's a greeting, yes - but it is more so formal acknowledgement and rendition of respect. And that acknowledgement and greeting WILL be returned by the junior member. Respect applies to brand new lieutenants and new warrant officers the same way it applies to battle-seasoned staff sergeants that got commissioned as O1-Es.

Warrant Officers and Lieutenants - if you work together to water down your standing in the overall rank structure because of convenience... aren't you afraid that you may find yourselves irrelevant? Will we need to start putting Majors and Captains in charge of platoons?

Response by MAJ Alan Montgomery made Feb 2 at 2019 12:57 PM

MAJ Alan Montgomery — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 12:57:50 -0500

One can make the argument that 2d Lieutenants and 1st Lieutenants are on different rungs in the chain of command and therefore should salute each other. When I was a butter bar that issue got solved quickly. We were all Lieutenants. Later in my command life, when I delegated command authority to a Lieutenant, he WAS saluted by all who came into contact with him (outside combat theaters) regardless of his DOR and he or she saluted all his or her superiors. If necessary I, or my CSM, held remedial training. It's my red line. Even though I am retired I still salute all CMH holders I meet, and when on base I salute all those who outrank me while they are wearing the uniform and I expect they return the courtesy. Don't expect everyone to follow suit, but as for Lieutenants saluting Lieutenants those with command grit will figure it out without me interfering.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Feb 3 at 2019 12:58 AM

LTC James McElreath — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 00:58:51 -0500

1st off, a 2LT should salute a 1LT although I have observed LT's argue about this issue. At the end of the day the 2LT is disrespectful by not rendering a salute and greet to any superior officer. Now lets go to warrants, a 2LT is due a salute from any warrant no matter what. We had a CW3 refuse to salute 2LT's. and the issue went up the chain to the Bn Cdr. The CW3 was made aware of the rank structure just as he was as an enlisted person. He did not like it but he did comply. One doesn't have to like a superior ranking person but he needs to respect the rank on their shoulder. It befuddles the mind that when a person pins on their WO1 pin, they sometimes forget their military bearing. I can only guess that may come from their being an expert in their field and forgets?

Response by LTC David Howard made Feb 3 at 2019 8:16 PM

LTC David Howard — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 20:16:30 -0500

Has the Army changed that much since I retired? In my day the junior of two servicemen initiates the salute to the senior. So yes, even the highest ranked Warrant should salute a 2Lt. As a LTC, if I was approaching a full Colonel, I threw a salute.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Feb 3 at 2019 8:25 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 20:25:06 -0500

If that makes it easier.. but the Military isn’t supposed to be easy.. I suppose if only Lts and WOs in their groups and no Enlisted s in the A.O.. Do what works for you. If these JR people are in the A.O. Set the example and show pride in who and what you are ..

Response by SPC Fred Scholl made Feb 3 at 2019 9:51 PM

SPC Fred Scholl — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 21:51:35 -0500

Widely accepted is not the same as rules are rules. Lower rank salutes higher rank. I don’t see the confusion.

Response by Col James Cooke made Feb 3 at 2019 10:28 PM

Col James Cooke — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 22:28:56 -0500

A salute should not have to be required. It is a greeting from one warrior to another. Back in the day, warrant officers were placed between our enlisted folks and the commissioned ones. Gave me the impression that WOs were lower (in the bureaucracy) than commissioned officers. They are NOT lower in education. They are NOT lower in duty risk or combat risk. I never looked the reg up and I don't know what the other services expect of their people. But then, I'm still stuck in the 50s!

Response by LTC James McElreath made Feb 3 at 2019 10:35 PM

LTC James McElreath — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 22:35:51 -0500

The one bar rule is not written in any regulation I am aware of. Those that choose to not salute each other are setting a piss poor example to their enlisted folks. If there is anything in writing please let me know.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2019 11:00 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 23:00:33 -0500

No. That being said, WOs also shouldn’t be a dick to 2nd Lts.

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Feb 3 at 2019 11:08 PM

SPC Gary Welch — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 23:08:09 -0500

Why is this even a question I was in the army and national guard a total of 19 yrs never rose above SPC(long story) it's simple you salute officers period if the officers are senior to other officers then the junior salutes the senior

Response by MSG Norm Nunnally made Feb 4 at 2019 8:59 PM

MSG Norm Nunnally — Mon, 04 Feb 2019 20:59:49 -0500

One Bar Rule? I never knew any Marine who conscribed to that rule - they will drink anywhere and with anyone as long as it is free. As far as Service members saluting - and I mean all service members - it is the proscribed customary between service members regardless of rank up or down. The exchange of the salute is a sign of recognition and respect and tends to build and reinforce cohesion. With 39 years of service I never had any reluctance to salute any service member when meeting in transit or overtaking in transit. For out current military to be allowed to shirk that signal of respect proves that our Officer Corps and NCO Corps have degenerated into nothing more than just another federal bureaucrat and as such deserves any degree of distrust and contempt deemed fitting by any citizen. And as far as Warrant Officers are concerned they should salute all other ranks and should be saluted by the Enlisted ranks while all Federally appointed Officers should as a sign of respect salute all ranks. If an officer is too impotent to salute a fellow service member then that is an officer that should be passed over immediately and discharged of his command or leadership position post haste to prevent his cancer to spreading within the commands. Warrant Officers must remember why they are there in the first place and that placement does not impart any special treatment or station over any service member - thus they should also salute all ranks - after all they are nothing more than an overemployed specialist. A rank that was dismissed by Clinton when he gave everyone the Beret (also known as the Clinton Condom) to all service members with the mantra that they were all now special forces. What a crock from a total idiot.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Feb 6 at 2019 8:22 AM

LTC Russ Smith — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 08:22:21 -0500

No. Just, no. Yes, the is the regulation.... unless the first lieutenant is a company commander, no. And even then, no.

Response by MAJ Lee Goehl made Feb 6 at 2019 9:16 AM

MAJ Lee Goehl — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 09:16:09 -0500

Well as some one who came up through the ranks, I can tell you when i got my commission it was not uncommon for 1Lt to be a company or troop commander because post Vietnam we had many times when we were authorized 5-6 officers and had 2-3. As a 2Lt we always saluted a 1Lt and the WO&CWOs saluted me. i know I've been Retired 25 years but has basic tradition changed that much?

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2019 12:26 PM

2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 12:26:35 -0500

I will just say that, as an O1, I have been told that the "one bar club" is a thing since I was in Quantico, where TBS and WOBC is. I have never been saluted by a warrant officer and I would be very surprised, and actually uncomfortable, if a WO did salute me.

Response by SSgt Jon Hall made Feb 6 at 2019 4:54 PM

SSgt Jon Hall — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 16:54:02 -0500

I remember being a young boot marine standing a post in front of a huge PX at Camp Pendleton on pay day. The sun was in my eyes and couldn't tell anything except the approaching individual had somethinges on their collar or sholder. To error on the side of caution I saluted anything in question. I had a WO come over to and said thank you.

Response by CW3 Dick McManus made Feb 6 at 2019 7:37 PM

CW3 Dick McManus — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 19:37:52 -0500

WTC 7: Firefighters for 9/11 Truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTKyyzxbBCI&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3QfsmxWmq921T4ATcPwdVrzpX4pKAOM7OOiU_rXGXSiR69e9aYcBV-Cao

Another best video I have found that explains what should not have caused the WTC buildings to collapse due to office fires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiwpj7aa9c8
A 2016 study from Chapman University in California, found more than half of the American people believe the government is concealing information about the 9/11 attacks.

Resolution for a New Public Congressional Investigation regarding the alleged terrorist incidents on September 11, 2001

WHEREAS some 3,103 architects and engineers (AE911truth.org,), As of 2006, more than 15,000 scientists, including 52 Nobel laureates and 63 recipients of the National Medal of Science, signed a statement accusing the current US presidential administration of “distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends” some 320 skilled commercial of military pilots (Pilots for 9/11 Truth), some 600 PhD scientists and some 58 elected public officials are saying that scientific irrefutably evidence proves that the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed by explosives.

Celebrities Who Are 9/11 skeptics
Risking being put-down for being “conspiracy theorists”
SEE here:
https://www.ranker.com/list/celebrities-who-are-911-truthers/celebrity-lists

And WHEREAS these experts believe the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s (NIST) committed criminal negligence (LIED) in doing their investigation and writing the final report and NIST made no recommendations to improve the steel makeup of future high rise buildings to prevent them from collapsing due to fires.

And WHEREAS David Ray Griffin, PhD lists over 100 lies included in the official 9/11 Commission report in his book, The 9/11Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions,

And WHEREAS 911 Commissioners Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton said that the FAA and NORAD did not tell the truth to the Commission, the Commission failed to bring charges against witnesses who they alleged gave false testimony, and 9/11 Commissioners former US Senators Bob Kerrey and Max Cleland called the Commission’s investigation a cover up,

And WHEREAS the group calling itself the Lawyers’ Committee for 9/11 Inquiry has, as of the summer of 2018, petitioned with the US Attorney in Manhattan, New York to convene a Special Grand Jury (which may now being investigation 9/11, but we can not know this for sure because even the fact that a Grand Jury in the process of investigation, is classified or secret).

Richard McManus
Chief Warrant Officer-3/counterintelligence special agent (more like an FBI agent than CIA officer) and combat paramedic/LPN, Vietnam US Army retired, former 911 telephone guy for the Seattle PD and King County cop
BS psychology and nursing
Everett, WA,

WTC 7: Firefighters for 9/11 Truth: "Calling OUT Bravo 7"

THEY evacuated the Emergency Management bunker before the towers collapsed, then let the building burn as cover for the unprecedented yet accurately predicte...

Response by SFC Roger Senatore made Feb 7 at 2019 5:19 PM

SFC Roger Senatore — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 17:19:09 -0500

Absolutely. Military customs and curtsies are traditional and one of the things that set us apart from the mob. In the US military the salute is a two-way communication of respect between professionals.

Response by PO1 Robert Wikert made Feb 9 at 2019 4:44 PM

PO1 Robert Wikert — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 16:44:15 -0500

Not having been an officer, perhaps I don't know what I am talking about, however it has always been my understanding that a salute is a form of greeting. And in that vein, enlisted are required to salute any officer, and in return the salute should be returned. Anyone of a lower rank, be they an officer or not, I was trained are required to render a proper salute, and, receive one in return. Now, if officers in a particular unit, decide among themselves that they are not going to render the proper respect due each other, so be it. However in doing so what are they teaching the enlisted people under their command?

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Feb 9 at 2019 10:30 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 22:30:28 -0500

No...

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Feb 10 at 2019 12:32 PM

Cpl Tyler Therrien — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 12:32:32 -0500

I agree the "one bar" rule applies else no one would get much done too busy saluting each other :-)
Semper Fi Gunny

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Feb 13 at 2019 2:13 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 14:13:50 -0500

Absolutely...

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2019 2:16 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 14:16:48 -0500

Stupid question Know your rank structure

Response by Capt Ray Lummus made Feb 15 at 2019 5:37 PM

Capt Ray Lummus — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 17:37:55 -0500

When I was a Marine WO I saluted Lieutenants. When I became an LDO Lieutenant, I expected WOs to salute me. Not that I made it a big issue.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Feb 17 at 2019 1:11 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 13:11:23 -0500

I am old school. 2nd Lieutenants, like every other commissioned or warrant officer, is required (not "should be" or "expected") to be saluted by those of lower rank. Yes, this includes warrant officers and sergeants major. I never see a post that says something like "Should captains and majors be saluted?" or "Should warrant officers be saluted?"

It seems that 2nd lieutenants are the most disrespected rank in the military but remember this - with very few exceptions, every great officer in the US Army and Marine Corps was once a 2nd lieutenant - this includes U.S. Grant, Robert E. Lee, George Patton, Omar Bradley, Chesty Puller, Louis Wilson (a 4 star Commandant of the Marine Corps who received the Medal of Honor) and Norman Schwarzkopf.
Yes, in many ways, 2nd lieutenants are still in training but they are still officers and should be respected as such.
The "one bar rule" sounds reasonable provided it is supported by the commander and its evenly applied. I once worked in a brigade headquarters where there were numerous officers from warrants to a one star. I thought it would have been good if they made a local exception in the HQ area and saluted only O-5s and above but, well, they didn't.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Feb 23 at 2019 8:40 AM

SPC Ron Salsbury — Sat, 23 Feb 2019 08:40:43 -0500

Drill Sergeant always said rank is rank, you salute the rank if you are less than on the power chart; not because it is expected, it is for respect for those individuals earned those rights by doing what it takes to earn the rank of officer.

Response by Cpl John Grier made Mar 8 at 2019 5:54 PM

Cpl John Grier — Fri, 08 Mar 2019 17:54:07 -0500

One salutes all superior officers. Superior as determined by the service, not your feelings.

Response by LTC George Morgan made Mar 9 at 2019 1:25 PM

LTC George Morgan — Sat, 09 Mar 2019 13:25:19 -0500

Yes, in the Army, (The Marines having a different view) a Warrant Officer should Salute a 2nd Lt. It demonstrates respect to the enlisted ranks and a mutual respect of Warrant to Commission.

Response by CW3 Jared Hickox made Mar 11 at 2019 9:49 PM

CW3 Jared Hickox — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 21:49:16 -0400

There was never a situation where I, as a Warrant Officer, thought that I didn't need to salute a LT. Each time when a salute was required, a salute was rendered. The day I picked up my Retirement DD214, in uniform as required, I saluted a 2LT outside Waller Hall on my way to my car. To believe otherwise is ridiculous and unprofessional.

Response by SPC Larry Johnson made Mar 21 at 2019 12:00 PM

SPC Larry Johnson — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:00:19 -0400

Interesting, I didn’t know this. I was enlisted though so Injust saluted them all

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2019 12:35 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:35:15 -0400

I always thought Warrant Officers and Chief Warrant Officers weren’t allowed in general public because of their divinity to the enlisted masses?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2019 12:59 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:59:16 -0400

Seems like a lot of lazy people... You should salute everyone that is afforded one by regulations.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2019 11:01 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:01:26 -0400

First the rank structure (no matter your years of service) goes E-1 to E-9, then W-1 to W-5, then O-1 to O-10. Sorry but by rank a Warrant is lower than a 2LT. Yes they were prior enlisted and YES they are experts and YES they served longer....but rank is rank, you do not have to respect the person, but you have to respect the rank. I have been in a unit where 2LT had to salute a 1LT but even as a 2LT myself (once long ago) I had a CW5 and an E9 salute me...why because it is the RIGHT thing to do. and FYI I was prior enlisted (SSG) So I know what I am talking about.

Response by CW4 Dennis Busch made Mar 22 at 2019 11:35 AM

CW4 Dennis Busch — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:35:47 -0400

Of course, you always salute the LT. That lieutenant is going to be the BN Cdr someday, and his training needs to be faultless. If not, the machine breaks. Every 40-something CW4/CW5 is responsible for a portion of that training.

Response by CPO John Krawczyk made Mar 22 at 2019 3:19 PM

CPO John Krawczyk — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 15:19:26 -0400

Yes they out rank them.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Mar 22 at 2019 4:39 PM

LTC James McElreath — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 16:39:45 -0400

Yes of course

Response by LtCol Palmer Brown made Mar 23 at 2019 2:42 PM

LtCol Palmer Brown — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 14:42:37 -0400

Yes! But saluting is not a burden or relegating one person superior or inferior to another. It is a form of greeting between military professionals. As a 2nd Lt (former CWO) I would exchange salutes with other 2nd Lts in the Battalion. One asked me once why I saluted him since we were equal rank (actually I was senior but seniority among 2nd Lts is like virtue among prostitutes) and I responded as I have mentioned - it's a form of greeting between military professionals. We 2nd Lts (all of us previous WO or CWO with 10-15 yrs or more service) did have a problem with the Battalion Sergeant Major who thought he should not salute 2nd Lts. Once on the sidewalk outside the Bn Hqs the SgtMaj failed to salute a 2nd Lt. The Lt stopped the SgtMaj with the words; "Excuse me SgtMaj. If I salute you first this morning will you promise to salute me first tomorrow." The SgtMaj, came to attention and rendered a proper military salute, which the Lt returned. We really didn't have a problem with the SgtMaj after that.

Response by Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. made Mar 23 at 2019 9:26 PM

Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 21:26:24 -0400

Yes, in the USMC Warrant Officers are junior to 2nd Lieutenants. I was at a dinner function for the command officers as a 2nd Lieutenant and the Commanding Officer ask the Junior Officer to lead a prayer while looking at me and I said I believe he is referring to you Warrant Officer Jones! Warrant Officer Jones said the prayer!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2019 4:31 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:31:12 -0400

Unless green and gold I find it kinda rediculous.. a warrant has more time in service.. a lt mine as well be a private..

Response by SSgt David Marks made Mar 25 at 2019 12:17 AM

SSgt David Marks — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 00:17:31 -0400

Now I can't speak for Warrent Officers, because we didn't have them in the AF. However I saw all the time 2nd Lts. saluting 1st Lts. Now if you go by the letter of the regs. a 2nd Lt. is required to salute everyone. They must render a salute to higher ranking officers and must return salutes to enlisted that salute them. Therefore, by regs., a 2nd Lt. is required to salute a 1st Lt., simply because 1st Lt. is a higher rank than 2nd Lt. Now like I said I can't answer for Warrent Officers, hopefully a higher ranking Warrent Officer can address that matter.

Response by CW3 Doyle Frost made Mar 25 at 2019 7:22 PM

CW3 Doyle Frost — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 19:22:02 -0400

Of course. Whether we think of ourselves as superior to a "Butter Bar" or higher, in the military rank structure, they are superior to us, and as such, are due that sign of respect for their rank. I have no qualms saluting anyone in uniform, higher, or lower rank. I will initiate a salute toward a superior officer every time I recognize that individual as senior to me. At the same time, I will not hesitate to return a salute rendered me.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Mar 26 at 2019 9:05 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Tue, 26 Mar 2019 09:05:20 -0400

As an Enlisted soldier I saluted all officers and ROTC Cadets that came to our unit for training. I am a proud soldier and delighted in being professional. Any who did not did not deserve their check. I feel the same about those scoundrels that will rush at last minute to avoid saluting our flag going up or down. Proud and Loud!!

Response by MAJ Pete Joplin made Mar 27 at 2019 12:06 PM

MAJ Pete Joplin — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 12:06:36 -0400

An old adage: "Rank among LTs (and Warrants) is like virtue among whores."

That is all.

Response by CPL David Blagrove made Mar 28 at 2019 6:31 AM

CPL David Blagrove — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:31:13 -0400

I’ve heard of them, but not many encounters during my time!

Response by LTJG Frederick Birchmore made Mar 28 at 2019 9:42 AM

LTJG Frederick Birchmore — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 09:42:10 -0400

Navy Regs clearly dictate protocol aboard the battleship. You salute superiors as a deference and equals as a courtesy. The salute is crisp and initiated by the lesser rank, held until returned by the superior. It is performed, not upon every passageway encounter, but only once, as the day's first greeting, unless you are on the green carpet later in the watch.

Note that I referenced "battleship." Last time I had the opportunity to be in saluteworld, the New Jersey was still available for parading around. The large combatants were overflowing with spit and polish except during times of extremis. On my rustbucket LSD, however, we were always too busy with real stuff for much ceremony. Only the Capt and XO got real salutes. The junior officers mainly exchanged salutes with the grizzled WOs just for fun, and flipped each other off when the men weren't looking. Most of the men saluted us likewise, I suspect.

In the small boats, of course, in ODs, on the rivers and such, we NEVER saluted, wore insignia (targets) or even stood topside in an officerious pose.

Response by LTJG Frederick Birchmore made Mar 28 at 2019 9:43 AM

LTJG Frederick Birchmore — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 09:43:41 -0400

Response by SFC William Bethea made Mar 28 at 2019 6:33 PM

SFC William Bethea — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 18:33:08 -0400

By regulations you have to salute an officer that is superior to your rank, that is consistent through all the services. The SGM of the Army or Marines should salute a 2nd Lt. It is a regulation and curtousy of their rank as an officer, the same holds true for warrant officers. When you demour from regulations you set the wrong tone for subordinates that witness it.

Remember it is always proper to salute their rank. They have to earn their respect of who they are by themselves.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2019 9:18 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 21:18:04 -0400

By the regulation officers salute other officers and warrant officers salute other warrant officers and second LT's unless your in click. The senior officer and senior warrant officer in the chain of command it's there responsibility to mentor junior officers and junior warrant officers, if they decide not to mentor junior officers it will cause a problem down the road. Like walking up to a Full bird colonel or light colonel call them by the first name and not salut. Like creating a monster.

Response by SGT G W made Mar 30 at 2019 5:42 PM

SGT G W — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 17:42:05 -0400

Army was one bar rule in 1968

Response by LTC James McElreath made Mar 31 at 2019 1:37 AM

LTC James McElreath — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 01:37:49 -0400

BS, it is not exceptable in any service! These rules are written in stone!! MyArmy private has to salute your service and the others too!!! How the heck would he know some 1 barb rule!! These rules are not around to inforce some lame rule!! This is how "stupid", comes about!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2019 1:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 13:37:37 -0400

The salute should be viewed as an honor to initiate or receive. It is only exchanged between fellow warriors. I have been saluted by many NCOs and Private Soldiers some of whom were such exceptional soldiers that I was honored to return their salute. Once I ran into a MOH winner at a book store (his rosette gave him away) and he was actually astonished when I stepped back and rendered the best salute I could muster. The right to render the salute should never be viewed as a burden.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Mar 31 at 2019 1:59 PM

SPC Donald Moore — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 13:59:47 -0400

When I was in the Army, stationed in Germany, between 1992 and 1994, I had a Captain that I worked with in the Battalion S-3 shop. He gave me the impression he respected my work. When he met me outside the office, he would always salute first. It was actually kind of annoying, but I think he did it as a sign of respect for me as an individual.
A salute is required by regulation, but it is also a sign of respect (traditionally) and should be rendered, even if the respect isn't there, but especially if it is. Not rendering a salute is disrespectful and not in compliance with regulations.
I am happy to be a civilian now because GS employees are not expected to salute or be saluted, so it doesn't really matter to me.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Apr 1 at 2019 3:51 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 15:51:35 -0400

That's a really interesting question...where I was, they were REALLY strict about such things, though I NEVER, EVER, even REMOTELY thought to upbraid anyone, esp senior warrant if they didn't, esp being a newbie, ever, mainly because, honest, where I was, nobody ever DARED not do it...now, interestingly, that being said, at the same time the installation I was at had a USAR unit, as well as ARNG on it, as well, along with a whole mix of the other svcs in various system program offices (SPOs) assigned to various projects, incl warrants from Navy, USCG, USMC, incl. a good many foreign allied warrants, on occasion, as well as foreign allied seriously senior NCOs,...they always did it, however, I knew quite well, esp if one of the really senior ones had passed me, any of the CWOs, which we did have some of, incl some quite high ones, I'd NEVER have insisted, occasionally, I'd actually whip one to them, I knew QUITE well how high they were in that world, which, obviously, they quite clearly appreciated, and yeah, that's actually a really true story, honest...though, as I'd said, it typically never arose where I was, trust me, if anybody hadn't done it the right way, myself included, we, all of us, incl. moi, would've been thoroughly "mentally disemboweled", I can also assure all of you, also total truth....

Response by CW3 Neal Long made Apr 4 at 2019 1:49 PM

CW3 Neal Long — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 13:49:24 -0400

You bet, Lt's are Commissioned Officers, Warrants aren't. Lt's out rank Warrants 1-5. Common military courtesy and requirement.

Response by CW5 Jack Gaudet made Apr 5 at 2019 2:30 PM

CW5 Jack Gaudet — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:30:20 -0400

While I was saluting the commissioned officer, I looked at in a different view, I made them salute me.

Response by CW4 Dave Melchert made Apr 5 at 2019 7:35 PM

CW4 Dave Melchert — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 19:35:59 -0400

Yes!

Response by SPC Jesse Staha made Apr 6 at 2019 11:19 AM

SPC Jesse Staha — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 11:19:54 -0400

All seriousness aside, I've just witnessed four of the mythical CW5 commenting one post. I feel like I just found an entire herd of unicorns.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2019 7:36 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Apr 2019 19:36:31 -0400

To this old retired Army Warrant Officer believes it is the foundation of all military customs.

Response by SGT Robert Hawks made Apr 25 at 2019 5:46 PM

SGT Robert Hawks — Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:46:26 -0400

Yes warrant officers should salute lieutenants you are respecting the rank and position not the individual wearing it. AR 600-25 and AR 600-20 should put this question to rest.

Response by 1SG John Baize made Apr 27 at 2019 11:44 AM

1SG John Baize — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 11:44:06 -0400

Can't believe this is even a discussion topic. Seems to me that in all services, the regulated requirements are clear. Yes, a lower ranking officer salutes higher ranking officers.

Response by CPO James Mauro made Apr 27 at 2019 11:37 PM

CPO James Mauro — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 23:37:34 -0400

I think that’s fairly common sense and if anybody’s got their act together theMarine Corps does

Response by GySgt Thomas Vick made Apr 28 at 2019 12:01 PM

GySgt Thomas Vick — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:01:35 -0400

As a Marine I always saluted all, never really thought about the WO's and one bars saluting each other, but I agree with the one bar rule in the Marine Corps.

Response by CW2 Donald Kempf made Apr 28 at 2019 2:29 PM

CW2 Donald Kempf — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 14:29:24 -0400

Having been, enlisted, NCO, commissioned & warrant, I feel uniquely qualified to answer this. Yes, technically, any warrant officer should salute a 2nd lieutenant. Generally, in familiar groups, like you unit, this rarely occurs unless the chain of command emphasizes it. Officers who are not familiar with each other, there should be no doubt and the junior officer should always initiate the salute. That being said, I always rendered a salute unless specifically asked to refrain.

Response by PO3 Richard Miller made Apr 28 at 2019 2:33 PM

PO3 Richard Miller — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 14:33:19 -0400

A Warrant Officer worked harder then 2 Lt

Response by SFC David Dean made Apr 28 at 2019 4:02 PM

SFC David Dean — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:02:33 -0400

A simple explanation would adequate. Commissioned officers are provided their rank by Congress; either currently and/or in the past. A warrant officer is exactly that; he/she is given a warrant by virtue of their specialized skill set. Not trying to disparage anyone. It would seem very logical to follow the same protocol for both as follows:

2LT should salute a WO1; in essence the WO1 can be considered equivalent to a 1LT
From that point on logically if a CPT and a WO3 meet no salute unless they choose to; equivalent ranks
It seems sometimes that common sense is not a prevalent concept in operation today. Let's be honest all enlisted salute all officers. In turn Warrants have a simple straightforward and readily visible rank displayed, so if you see them as a fellow Warrant or Commissioned officer then see what rank they hold and salute or expect them to salute you if your rank is higher numerically. From my interactions and 20 years on active duty I cannot ever recall a warrant officer getting irritated over a salute. Perhaps to some small degree that would stem from the fact that many warrant officers come from the enlisted ranks.

Response by PO2 Jim Bragg made Apr 29 at 2019 10:56 AM

PO2 Jim Bragg — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:56:20 -0400

Yes a WO or CWO should salute a 2nd Lt and on up. The rank is below a 2nd Lt. so your must salute the higher ranking Officer first. Personally I respect a WO and especially a CWO much more than a 2nd Looie as they have time in service and know one hell of a lot more, just like MSG or Chief Petty Officers and run the various branches of service. At least a WO gets the privileges of an Officer. In combat of course nobody salutes.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Apr 30 at 2019 4:32 PM

PO1 Richard Norton — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:32:40 -0400

Military protocol requires it. What officers do in private is up to them in public they are required to follow the same rules and regulations as the enlisted do. Junior salute senior officers. The only exception that I am aware of is all regardless of their rank salute a the holder of Medal of Honor first. Of course in this case they medal must be visible.

Response by LTC Charles Patchin made Apr 30 at 2019 5:24 PM

LTC Charles Patchin — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:24:23 -0400

It must be some new thing where military courtesy has stopped. Unless I miss my years of training about the rank structure, someone has truly made a mockery of the concept of a superior being saluted by a subordinate. E9s salute W1s. W1s salute all CWOs. All WOs salute 2Lts. All are required by the dictates of military courtesy to return the salute. A Commander allowing these lapses in discipline, publicly, is not worth a hoot. As with any requirement, a Commander may make exceptions, eg combat, range, flight line or other safety concerns. As for me, I feel very uncomfortable when a MOH recipient salutes me, but I return it proudly. It is courtesy. And from what I have often seen us the slackest are the most demanding. It also evident when two officers of equal rank salute each other when on post/base. It is military courtesy. If one does not like it one can go back and live in the parents basement and whimper.

Response by SFC Teresa Threatts made May 2 at 2019 6:53 AM

SFC Teresa Threatts — Thu, 02 May 2019 06:53:12 -0400

Well, to be perfectly honest, I, as a Senior Noncommissioned Officer (SFC, Retired), I wouldn't have a problem with saluting either. The fact is that you're not saluting the PERSON, you're saluting the UNIFORM. That, in my opinion, will cut down on so much of the hostility between the ranks. I, as a Senior Noncommissioned Officer, was proud to salute the UNIFORM worn by ANY Officer in the US Army.

Response by SFC Antonio Nieto made May 2 at 2019 10:30 AM

SFC Antonio Nieto — Thu, 02 May 2019 10:30:20 -0400

Why not that question don’t even make sense

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2019 7:16 PM

CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 May 2019 19:16:13 -0400

This ranks in the top of the the dumbest questions ever posted on RallyPoint. Congratulate yourself.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 15 at 2019 5:32 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Wed, 15 May 2019 05:32:42 -0400

Of course. Then why do sgm's go the other way when they used to see me.

Response by LTC John Bush made May 18 at 2019 8:19 AM

LTC John Bush — Sat, 18 May 2019 08:19:28 -0400

Things never change as I have been a party to these discussions for over 50 years. Rendering a salute is not some sort of punishment or sign of subservience. note that prisoners and civilians do not have that privilege.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2019 12:31 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:31:24 -0400

Warrants salute everyone who is a 2nd lt or above. (Although I've had lieutenants salute me). Warrants generally do not salute each other but a junior warrant would salute a W4 or W5 in 'public' situations, wherein other 'real live' officers were around. Just common sense.

Response by CW2 Bruce Greiner made May 28 at 2019 2:51 PM

CW2 Bruce Greiner — Tue, 28 May 2019 14:51:36 -0400

When I was in the service as a CWO I would make a point of saluting Lieutenants. Other warrants wouldn’t salute unless the officer was a major or above. I would have very shocked Lieutenants who would stop me and shake my hand for rendering the appropriate courtesy. I think it made it easier for me and other CWO to establish a good working relationship and mutual respect with these officers.

Response by COL Michael Senters made May 28 at 2019 8:58 PM

COL Michael Senters — Tue, 28 May 2019 20:58:49 -0400

Absolutely, a CSM is required to and it’s rank structure regulation. Some of those LT will become COL and GOs one day. LTs should always be aware of the fact when dealing with a CW5/4 that’s field grade level for a WO.

Response by PO3 Eddie Vazquez made May 28 at 2019 9:59 PM

PO3 Eddie Vazquez — Tue, 28 May 2019 21:59:25 -0400

Saluting is a sign of respect and comraderie. It's always safe to salute a senior officer first. It only has to be done once a day. But, if any individual is wearing a medal of honor, then, "you" salute the medal first, regardless of rank.

Response by PO3 Eddie Vazquez made May 28 at 2019 10:00 PM

PO3 Eddie Vazquez — Tue, 28 May 2019 22:00:12 -0400

Response by CWO2 David Bertoldo made May 29 at 2019 8:34 AM

CWO2 David Bertoldo — Wed, 29 May 2019 08:34:56 -0400

as a warrant officer, I saluted all even 2nd Lt

Response by CPT Carl Conge made May 29 at 2019 5:29 PM

CPT Carl Conge — Wed, 29 May 2019 17:29:24 -0400

There was never a question in my 28+ years in the Army that a Warrant Officer was subordinate to a Second Lieutenant in rank, and needed to render a salute ... like everyone else ... when they encounter a senior ranking person.

Response by Cpl Tyeson Bebee made May 30 at 2019 3:04 AM

Cpl Tyeson Bebee — Thu, 30 May 2019 03:04:34 -0400

Warrant officer having to salute a boottenats is a joke. Every knows warrant officers are some the most hardcore individuals at least the ones I have met have been. Most officers went to college before the military and act like just cause of that they are better then everyone else. College is one of the easiest things I’ve done in my life, these officers come in acting like they are better then everyone else cause they went to college I always say if you had to join the military after you graduate college are you really the smart or great at anything when the military is your last resort.

Response by CWO4 John Erker made May 30 at 2019 9:16 AM

CWO4 John Erker — Thu, 30 May 2019 09:16:38 -0400

Warrant Officers, W-1, are not commissioned officers, Chief Warrant Officers, CWO-2-CWO-5 are. They are however, W-1, CWO-2-CWO5, subordinate in rank to O-1 and above and should initiate a salute when approaching..

Response by PO2 John Driskill made May 30 at 2019 11:11 AM

PO2 John Driskill — Thu, 30 May 2019 11:11:05 -0400

Courtesy to the rank of the person above you.

Response by CDR Lee Phillips made May 30 at 2019 1:24 PM

CDR Lee Phillips — Thu, 30 May 2019 13:24:11 -0400

The last tine I looked, all warrant officers are junior in precedence to all other officers, O-1 through O-10.
Officers exchange salutes upon the first meeting each day, with the junior officer initiating the salute. The Commanding Officer rates a salute upon each meeting from everyone under that officer's command, as it applies to USN. Not sure how the Air Force and Army do things, though.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made May 30 at 2019 1:44 PM

1SG James Kelly — Thu, 30 May 2019 13:44:32 -0400

Yes.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2019 2:33 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 May 2019 14:33:46 -0400

The rules say yes, but I never make warrants salute me or call me Sir.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2019 2:52 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 May 2019 14:52:16 -0400

The one bar rule is a long standing custom in the Corps. There are a few exceptions like at TBS and perhaps if your Company CO was a 1stLt. The regs might say different but it isn’t enforced.

Response by CWO4 Josh Henley made May 30 at 2019 3:20 PM

CWO4 Josh Henley — Thu, 30 May 2019 15:20:23 -0400

Technically, a Warrant salutes out of respect everyone that outranks him/her... to not do so is disrespectful...

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made May 30 at 2019 5:12 PM

SFC Terry Bryant — Thu, 30 May 2019 17:12:24 -0400

Commissioned officers outrank Warrant officers. Enough said. They are saluting the rank, not the person. The rank was put there for discipline within the Military. Without discipline there is no Military, just a gaggle of people dressed up in uniforms.

Response by SFC John Wells made May 31 at 2019 2:49 PM

SFC John Wells — Fri, 31 May 2019 14:49:49 -0400

Warrant Officers should salute all Commissioned Officers.

Response by SGT Mustafa Stokely made Jun 1 at 2019 5:15 PM

SGT Mustafa Stokely — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 17:15:27 -0400

Clarification needed: I had earlier posted a reply/comment regarding the difference between commissioned officers and warrant officers as being just that; one is commissioned by the President of the United States, while the latter is appointed/promoted by the respective Secretary. Another poster challenged that assertion, stating (I quote:) "Under AR 135-155 promotion to Chief Warrant Officer is made by Commission. Not sure if the Navy or Marines do the same, but in the Army all Chiefs are commissioned."

I could find nothing in AR 135-155 that suggested the conferring of commissioned status to CW4/5's upon promotion. (Is it possible that I overlooked something?) I suspect there may be multiple-meanings/usages when it comes to the term, "commissioned." For example, "Reserve Commissioned Warrant Officer of the Army."

By definition, one is either commissioned, warranted, or non-commissioned. At any given time, you can be one, but not a combination. What do I mean? Well, you can no more be a commissioned WO4/5 than be a commissioned SM/CSM, or a warranted LTC/COL, (or be a non-commissioned 05/06...)

I think this issue could easily be clarified by senior officers/warrants? Many thanks in advance.

Response by LTC John Wilson made Jun 2 at 2019 3:16 AM

LTC John Wilson — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 03:16:49 -0400

The best answer is to review the origin of the Tradition behind the salute and what it means in a modern Western military organization. Whenever I counsel a Soldier for failure to salute a superior, I recount the following.

The hand salute is a meaningful throw back to when knights, upon encountering each other, would raise their visor with their weapon hand to show their faces to each other. The use of the weapon hand (the right hand) signified that the one rendering the salute meant no harm. Raising the visor allowed the other to ensure the identity of the other noble through facial recognition. The lessor knight was compelled to raise his visor first as a sign of respect. The superior knight was compelled by the same courtesy to respond by raising his visor as an equal sign of respect for the nobility of the lessor knight.

The common foot soldier was not granted the PRIVILEGE of saluting in this manner, as they were not members of the nobility. They simply raised an empty right hand and waved (as most civilians do today). The raising of the visor (our hand salute today) was RESERVED to the Noblemen who bear arms in defense of the realm.

We are an all-volunteer military. Each and every member -- for whatever reason -- chose to sign over their lives in defense of our Republic. They are ALL (Men and Women) modern day Noble Knights. They stand above the common. Every member -- from the youngest E-1 to the oldest 4-Star Flag Officer -- rightly receives the privilege of exchanging respect through a time honored tradition.

When a junior Soldier raises his or her hand to salute a senior, he or she is rendering respect. And when the senior returns that salute, he or she is rendering the same degree of respect to the junior.

We see these questions often on Rally Point. If you are a Warrant Officer, should you salute a Lieutenant? If you are a Second Lieutenant (or Ensign) should you salute a First Lieutenant (or Lieutenant Junior Grade)? While these questions may appear trivial, it really is not when we consider the MEANING behind the tradition. Regulations aside, I would ask you, Warrant Officer or O-1: Do you respect yourself? Are you worthy of the respect any decent senior officer wants to render to you?

I will close with a few more questions for the senior officers (to ask yourselves): Are you rendering the due respect your junior noblemen deserve for their honorable, self-sacrifice? Or do you see returning a salute as an outmoded, pesky nuisance? Does it show?

Response by Col Tom Waugh made Jun 2 at 2019 8:43 AM

Col Tom Waugh — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 08:43:43 -0400

There were very few warrant officers in the Air Force when I was commissioned as a 2lt in 1964 and then finally none. The protocol is one of respect and comradeship for rank. So, warrants initiate the courtesy to those senior in rank regardless of rank.

Response by Maj Don Harmon made Jun 2 at 2019 6:03 PM

Maj Don Harmon — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 18:03:51 -0400

Not salute a 1st Lt? A good way for a 2nd Lt to get his ass chewed and be humiliated. The 1st Lt may just find the 2nd Lt disrespectful and rude, not the upholder of a so-called tradition.
As an enlisted man for six years, I was happy to salute warrant or commissioned officers. Later, as a 2nd Lt, I saluted 1st Lts. I also saluted officers of equal rank. They always returned my salutes in a friendly manner.
Consider a civilian saying a friendly "hello" to another civilian. The other civilian looks away or otherwise purposely ignores him. Same. Rude and discourteous. Yes, a salute is a required recognition of superior warrant or commissioned rank, but it is also a courteous, comradely greeting.
Incidentally, I only met one, but I saluted a sergeant who had been awarded the Medal of Honor. It was my honor to salute him.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jun 2 at 2019 7:51 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:51:01 -0400

I always did. But they would hide

Response by 1stSgt Donald Smith made Jun 2 at 2019 8:16 PM

1stSgt Donald Smith — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 20:16:19 -0400

Let's close it this way. Saluting should be looked at as a bonding of our Brotherhood.
I'm Old School Marine Corp and don't know about this one bar thing, you don't salute each other.Were all Brothers, give due respect to the rank but most of all give respect to one another. Is it bothersome to salute someone of equal rank ? If it is I would suggest, you take your uniform off and become a civilian.

Just an old 1stSgt given his spin on the subject .................Semper Fi

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2019 6:42 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 18:42:22 -0400

A 2Lt saluting a 1Lt is not wrong. In fact it technically is correct as O2 outranks O1. Also O1 out ranks CW5. It’s not a matter of who holds the most experience or a power thing, it’s a form of customs and courtesies. Anyone who tries to say otherwise is just trolling and looking to stir up crap. Focus on something that’s not so trivial...

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Jun 5 at 2019 9:38 PM

LTC Pete Moore — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 21:38:28 -0400

You should follow the regulations. There are situations that lead to Commanders suspend practices like saluting on the battlefield. However if an officer outranks you, the regulation says..... who commands a division headquarters unit, usually an O3 in Army, he commands it but just about every officer outranks him. Does he salute the one star? I always tried beat my EMs and junior NCOs to salute first, it was a pride thing. Saluting is a pride thing, it is respect between senior and junior, be professional not cool

Response by Sgt Greg Carnes made Jun 6 at 2019 6:58 AM

Sgt Greg Carnes — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 06:58:36 -0400

As a junior warrant officer myself I salute both junior officers in my section. Both are very good friends and we "socialize" off duty when times allow.

Response by Col James Cooke made Jun 6 at 2019 4:22 PM

Col James Cooke — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 16:22:55 -0400

Not only are you a gentleman, CW Scheller, you are a scholar! Well written, sir, well written indeed!

I am reminded of the story of a COL seeing his young son off to Basic Training. As the boy walked off with his sponsor, a senior NCO, the old officer shouted, "Private Smith!". As the young man paused and turned, the COL gave him the sharpest salute he could muster.

Our military fellowship and its customs and traditions are unique. Let us treasure them and promote them among our fellow uniformed members.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Jun 6 at 2019 8:52 PM

Sgt Charles Welling — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 20:52:55 -0400

My response as a United States Marine? Why the F are we even discussing this? Saluting superior officers is the tradition. Superior: Higher in station. Officer: A position of rank or authority, especially in the military. The last time I checked, knowing full well I don't need to check again, the rank structure in terms of saluting is: Enlisted is subordinate to warrant officers and commissioned officers, warrant officers are subordinate to commissioned officers and within the warrant and commissioned ranks are grades that are superior to the grades below them. How about let's get the F off of the bullshit and follow the tradition, if it is a warrant officer or a commissioned officer and that person is senior to you, you salute and shut the F up about it, get real and get military, it isn't a liberal forum. What the hell is happening to America and I don't want to hear about the expletives, this kind of crap is inane and silly and senseless. The ONLY thing that I can see stimulating this horse crap is egocentricity because, otherwise, IT IS ALREADY DEFINED!!

Response by SP5 Duncan Lee made Jun 7 at 2019 2:07 AM

SP5 Duncan Lee — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 02:07:27 -0400

The salute is to the rank, not the person.

Response by Lt Col Kathleen Bowman Estrada made Jun 7 at 2019 1:48 PM

Lt Col Kathleen Bowman Estrada — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 13:48:03 -0400

There used to be a saying about rank among lieutenants, but I think it is no longer repeatable without the PC police swarming in, but suffice it to say, "what's the point?"

Response by 1stSgt Edward Jackson made Jun 7 at 2019 7:34 PM

1stSgt Edward Jackson — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 19:34:45 -0400

Here's the bottom line:
1. All Enlisted Members salute all Warrant Officers and Officers, PERIOD.
2. All Warrant Officers salute all Officers, PERIOD.
3. All Officers salute all Officers superior in rank to themselves, PERIOD.
4. End of discussion, PERIOD.
Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2019 11:45 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:45:31 -0400

Maybe it's just me, but I feel as though if you feel the need to demand a courtesy, you don't deserve that courtesy.

Speaking in more relevant terms, rendering the salute is probably the least intrusive military custom I can think of. Beyond that, it's a very salient and traditional gesture of respect, steeped in rich history. It should never feel like or be thought of as a burden.

Response by CW2 Herschel Reeves made Jun 11 at 2019 2:44 PM

CW2 Herschel Reeves — Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:44:35 -0400

According to regulation, one SHOULD salute your superior officers. You MAY, OUT OF RESPECT, salute anyone you please. If anyone salutes you, you should return that salute as a matter of respect. Lot’s of people haven’t heard of the “one bar rule” as a Warrant Office, I had a brand new Second Lieutenant, saluting me, because he had a gold bar, and mine, were silver. Silver of course was higher than gold.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 14 at 2019 6:47 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:47:47 -0400

That’s like asking if a CSM should salute them, of course they should. We all choose our path, we should be proud and honored to perform the traditions within our culture. I assure you that Officers young and old pay the appropriate respect to the very senior enlisted and warrants, but we still salute first. Thank you all for your service.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Jun 15 at 2019 6:33 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 18:33:06 -0400

This brings to mind. What about Air Wings that have had, and some still do have a Warrant Officers as the company Commander. Thus putting them over Commissioned Officers.
I have heard of this but have not seen it in person.
CW5 Scheller put it in the best response so fare.
Maybe he has seen this command thing before ?

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Jun 18 at 2019 9:45 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:45:21 -0400

My favorite salute... I was a CWO, leaving the tower at Cherry Point early one morning...as I was going through the parking lot a MSgt and I approached each other and he smartly saluted me with a 'Good Morning, Sir!"...I returned the salute and said "Good Morning.." ...but at the same time my mind was racing...'Where do I know this guy from..????". I stopped and turned around and he did the same... then we both laughed....He had been one of my Drill Instructors in Boot Camp 12 years ago...He laughed and shook his head and said..."I'll be damned...they'll just promote anybody to Warrant Officer these days!".... I was shocked he remembered me. He was stationed at LeJeune and was at ChPT to catch a hop and had some time to kill, so we went back to the tower cafe and I bought him breakfast and told a few sea stories. I never saw him again, but there is something special about being able to thank your DI.

Response by MCPO Hilary Kunz made Jun 18 at 2019 4:15 PM

MCPO Hilary Kunz — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:15:11 -0400

It’s called military regulations. Why in the world would you have to ask the question, Gunny? You’re the Gunny, and they aren’t. Of course they salute. I’d publicly dress down any JO or Warrant that tried to say otherwise, or if I caught them. You have to watch out for the more senior folks, too, those JOs need your guidance, give it.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 18 at 2019 6:34 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:34:10 -0400

From my own perspective, I saluted. Why, how can I ask or correct a soldier if I don't do it myself? We as leaders make and set the standards. If we don't follow them are we any better than some third world military?

Response by CPT Colton Norwood made Jun 23 at 2019 5:51 AM

CPT Colton Norwood — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 05:51:23 -0400

“One bar rule”? Hmmm...Never heard of it. A 2nd Lt. is saluted by everyone under him/her. This encompasses E-1 - E-9 and also all Warrant Officers. If there were something like the “one bar rule” I would most certainly respect, understand and condone it. To me it just seems fitting. But you must remember that the 2nd Lt. worked his or her ass off at University, OCS and BCT to earn that gold bar. Anyone in the enlisted or warranted ranks should want to salute him or her because it is a wonderful tradition.

Response by SMSgt Mike Wood made Jun 23 at 2019 8:20 AM

SMSgt Mike Wood — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 08:20:42 -0400

Can't ever recall witnessing a 1stLt or 2ndLt saluting each other in either the Army or Air Force (served in both) in passing.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jun 26 at 2019 8:37 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:37:19 -0400

Of course.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jun 26 at 2019 8:38 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:38:19 -0400

Should the csm of the army salute a W01?

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jun 26 at 2019 9:41 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:41:33 -0400

They did and should

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2019 11:40 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:40:38 -0400

Juniors initiate the salute to seniors. Yes, a 2LT can initiate a salute to a 1LT but not typically the custom unless the 1LT is the company commander. Yes, warrant officers should initiate the salute, but remember, the salute is a sign of respect between all Soldiers, regardless of rank.

Response by SSgt Daniel Vallance made Jun 29 at 2019 4:12 PM

SSgt Daniel Vallance — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 16:12:24 -0400

From the Air force aspect, no, most Warrant Officers are not College Grads, and one thing they trained me to do was just to remember there is a difference in life between, Union--Company, Officers-Enlisted, College-High School, Men-Boys, Milking cows -Bulls. Air Force ended Warrant Officers but I see they are coming back. So I guess we better salute anything that has medal on their sholders, right guys, hahahaha

Response by CPT William Jones made Jun 30 at 2019 12:05 AM

CPT William Jones — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 00:05:33 -0400

Yes you salute everyone above your rank. And it should be returned with a full and regulation salute as the one initiating should render. It is a pet peeve of mine to see people saluting and their upper arm is not parallel with the deck or the wave some give when you report to them. So salute when and who you should and always gone a smart regulation salute

Response by Capt Paul Richter made Jul 22 at 2019 1:51 AM

Capt Paul Richter — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:51:16 -0400

This is just a point of proper military etiquette. Yes of course in the regs you are appropriately required to salute all those senior to you in rank regardless of how senior that rank is. It reflects poorly on your unit and your professionalism to do less. You're saying that the Marine Corps is somehow now going lax in its standards. I certainly hope that's not the case. I expect all Marines to follow such decorum in their professional discourse in every in-uniform situation. That means all officers returning the salute of all subordinates in a prompt manner and with a high head. What you do in private, e.g., at the Officer's Club during an Officers Call, is your responsibility just so that it doesn't degrade your standing as a proud Officer of Marines. It just is no joking matter how bad you would look in the eyes of your Marines, and they'd, unfortunately, start emulating the lax attitude.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jul 22 at 2019 8:30 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 08:30:45 -0400

Yes. It is custom. As a GS 12, I had Captains work for me. The better call me sir. I bombed one captain on his OER. He was my chief of supply and services. I was the director. As a warrant, I always saluted an LT with a smile.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jul 22 at 2019 8:31 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 08:31:32 -0400

Warrants never salute each other. wo1 or CW5

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Jul 22 at 2019 10:19 AM

Capt Walter Miller — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:19:25 -0400

Sounds like a good idea to me. I don't recall it ever being an issue personally. And about Gunners?
"The United States Marine Corps MOS 0306, Infantry Weapons Officers, commonly referred to as "The Gunner" or "Marine Gunner" are non-technical Chief Warrant Officers (CWO-2 to CWO-5) that are weapons specialists and are knowledgeable in the tactical employment of all the infantry weapons in the Marine Corps arsenal—all weapons organic to Marine infantry units." -wiki

Response by TSgt Gwen Walcott made Jul 23 at 2019 10:25 AM

TSgt Gwen Walcott — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:25:38 -0400

Of Course!!!!!!

Response by CPT Charles Tagliareni made Jul 24 at 2019 12:29 PM

CPT Charles Tagliareni — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:29:44 -0400

Actually back in the day a Warrant did salute a Commissioned Officer. Don't recall the one bar rule.

Response by CPT Charles Tagliareni made Jul 24 at 2019 12:31 PM

CPT Charles Tagliareni — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:31:17 -0400

Back in the day a warrant officer did salute a commissioned officer. And I never heard of the one bar rule.

Response by CPT Charles Shannon made Jul 24 at 2019 1:19 PM

CPT Charles Shannon — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:19:03 -0400

As a 2nd LT, I can't imagine ever having a Warrant Officer saluting me. As a Capt I believe in the Marine Corps 1bar rule.

Response by MAJ Richard B. made Jul 24 at 2019 2:03 PM

MAJ Richard B. — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:03:22 -0400

I served as an enlisted Marine, Marine NCO, Army Warrant Officer and Army Commissioned Officer. Yes, Warrant Officers of all ranks should salute (traditional) Commissioned Officers of all ranks. It is required by regulation, and it is the right thing to do. Show respect when respect is due. It goes both ways. :)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2019 8:55 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 08:55:24 -0400

Ahmmmm, yes. They should. Army regulations are clear on this.

Response by SSgt Brian Stanhope made Jul 26 at 2019 10:05 AM

SSgt Brian Stanhope — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:05:34 -0400

Saluting is a honor for the giver and receiver. Render it without delay!

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Jul 26 at 2019 8:36 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 20:36:33 -0400

When I was in 2LTs outranked Chief Warrants, so a salute was warranted. Whether they got that salute or not, who knows?

Response by CPL Harry Daniel made Jul 28 at 2019 4:23 PM

CPL Harry Daniel — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 16:23:54 -0400

Yes. It's the military.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 8:33 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 08:33:13 -0400

I did three enlistments before I commissioned, so I've been on both sides of the salute. A salute as we were taught was that two knights would raise the visors on their helmets to show that they were unarmed and respected each other, hence the "present arms."

When a junior person salutes the senior ranking person the salute is rendered back. Respect up, respect given back.

This also irks me when people grumble or try to hide when we salute during Reveille and Retreat. Do you not respect our flag? If you are one of those people who don't, you are in the wrong business.

Response by SFC Kevin Hathaway made Aug 15 at 2019 3:37 PM

SFC Kevin Hathaway — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 15:37:31 -0400

No
Warrants are of equal rank.
Coming from Aviation Warrants I believe warrants deserve more respect because they have bigger BALLS!!!

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Aug 16 at 2019 12:11 AM

SPC Nancy Greene — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 00:11:50 -0400

Never heard of this before and I worked at Camp LeJeune NC for 10 years as a civilian. During this time frame, I had friends that were all ranks from CPL’s to CG’s. I noticed extreme respect within the ranks. Wo’s saluted ALL Officers, All Officers Saluted each other and ALL Enlisted (even SMG’s) saluted ALL Officers. So, I’m wondering when and where is this lack of respect fro the rank coming from?

Response by COL John Power made Aug 24 at 2019 7:34 PM

COL John Power — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 19:34:03 -0400

I guess this is a serious question, but one that shouldn't be necessary. Soldiers salute each other as a form of greeting. Sure there are rules and customs, but the bottom line it is a matter of being a respected member of the team. I can recall many times initiating the salute with an enlisted soldier, perhaps because he didn't see me. In 30 years of service I don't recall ever calling out a soldier for failing to initiating a salute. There is a pretty clear order of precedence in rank and the junior is to initiate the salute to the senior, in every case. My suggestion; pay attention to doing your job and camaraderie of arms and don't worry about piss-ant regulations.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Aug 25 at 2019 10:28 AM

CDR Tom Davy — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 10:28:35 -0400

Of course they should, just as 2nd LT should salute a 1st LT. We as officers / leaders must model the behavior we expect from our enlisted troops.
Quick sea story: I'm a mustang, I was passing a Warrant Officer and he could tell from my ribbons that I was a mustang Ensign. His salute was accompanied with a smile as I think he knew he was the first officer to ever salute me.

Response by SMSgt Ed Turney made Aug 25 at 2019 10:36 PM

SMSgt Ed Turney — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:36:17 -0400

Never heard of a 1 bar rule, so get your hands out of your pockets and hit it.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Aug 26 at 2019 12:53 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:53:22 -0400

The question you're asking, I haven't actually seen done while I was in the Army. I guess the best way to answer this, is to look up the actual definition of Commissioned Officers, and Warrant Officers, and see where they officially stand in the rank structure.

Response by LTC Robert Mikaloff made Aug 26 at 2019 1:33 PM

LTC Robert Mikaloff — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:33:29 -0400

Yes, absolutely. Warrant Officers should salute Lieutenants. It is a professional exchange between officers. But we all know Warrant Officers have a special relationship with "O"s. I always saw it as an observance of mutual respect. The Warrant Officer respecting the junior Company Grade officer's rank and the wise Company Grade officer recognizing the Warrant Officer's expertise.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Aug 26 at 2019 1:52 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:52:34 -0400

for fuck's sake... all these damn regs and shit.. keep it simple asshole... if you're not an LT, salute his ass. Enlisted salutes all officers, period. WO, no matter which 1-5, salute. Boom done

Response by SFC Joh Williams made Aug 26 at 2019 8:55 PM

SFC Joh Williams — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 20:55:12 -0400

Warrant officers are in between NCO and Comissioned officers. They imitate the salute to commissioned officers and return NCO salutes

Response by SrA Antoine Hawkins made Aug 27 at 2019 7:32 AM

SrA Antoine Hawkins — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:32:27 -0400

Protocol says salute. Im not sure why so many seem to think saluting is based on personal feelings and years in the service. The military customs and courtesies manuals covers all of this, not how much salt you have in your veins. If you want to salute someone when you dont have to out of respect, thats on them to accept, decline, or correct, BUT if youre supposed to and you DONT because you feel like they should respect you instead, then youre out of regs, and should get ready to get chewed out by someone else higher up

Response by SSgt Phil Sutherland made Aug 27 at 2019 6:53 PM

SSgt Phil Sutherland — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 18:53:59 -0400

Legally, according to the rules, they are supposed to salute someone of a higher rank and 1st Lieutenants outrank 2nd Lieutenants, and both outrank Warrant Officers. However, as stated, in recognition of professional ethics and standing in terms of responsibility, most 2nd & 1st Lieutenants and Warrant Officers do not salute each other. When in a position of authority in such special places, such as on the drill field, etc. there are exceptions made because they are teaching recruits to follow protocol and it is expected that they set the example. That also applies in circumstances where there are rigid protocol rules in place, such as the Pentagon, etc. So, it is according to circumstances and duty assignment.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Aug 27 at 2019 7:33 PM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 19:33:15 -0400

I am a W-4 and warrant officers always salute 2ndLt's. It's a point of pride with me. That 2ndLt outranks me and he gets a salute. To do otherwise is petty.

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made Aug 27 at 2019 7:47 PM

SFC Ernest Thurston — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 19:47:02 -0400

Why does this kind of subject keep coming up on this site? Is it that much trouble to salute someone? I was always of the mind "when in doubt whip it out." I remember when I was in MP AIT at Ft Gordon, back when Marines were assigned for AIT there, that PVTs were saluting LCPLs. What's the problem with saluting. When I was in the only times we had a policy about not saluting was while in the Company area. We would salute in the morning but the rest of the day it was optional for unit members. Of course, if a visiting officer came to the unit we saluted them. The other no salute time was during combat field training. I always salute anyone that has officer rank of some kind on the uniform. I've seen CPTs salute CPTs and Col salute Cols. WHAT"S THE BIG DEAL?

Response by PO3 Robin Bragg made Aug 29 at 2019 8:05 AM

PO3 Robin Bragg — Thu, 29 Aug 2019 08:05:12 -0400

Are they not under the rating of Lt.?

Response by Maj Benjamin Hernandez made Aug 29 at 2019 3:01 PM

Maj Benjamin Hernandez — Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:01:11 -0400

There is no regulation that mandates the saluting of Medal of Honor recipients by the military. Nonetheless, Our military heritage understands it to be an implied, unwritten rule behavior within the military. I believe the "one bar rule" falls within that realm of understanding.

Response by CWO3 Mary Thomas made Aug 30 at 2019 7:14 PM

CWO3 Mary Thomas — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 19:14:36 -0400

I'm not sure because being Navy I had to be an E7 or Chief to put Warrant package in, and there is no W-1, you are commissioned as a W-2. Normally Warrants wouldn't salute one another in work environment but anything formal it indeed is protocol!

Response by CPL Claudia Perales made Aug 31 at 2019 12:06 AM

CPL Claudia Perales — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 00:06:14 -0400

Yes, they salute each other. AR 600-25 Personnel—General Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy, is the best reference and it provides knowledge too.

Response by Capt Frederick Holderman made Aug 31 at 2019 11:24 AM

Capt Frederick Holderman — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 11:24:17 -0400

Salute everything that moves. Paint everything that doesn't, and never ever volunteer.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2019 12:48 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 12:48:58 -0400

This is the deal, the Marines have a one bar tradition except at TBS. It seems to me it is mostly Army that are concerned with a perceived lack of courtesy. I would also argue that the Army probably has more WOs than the Marines have total officers. Perhaps it makes more sense for them. Don’t get upset if you are an Army 2LT and a Marine CWO doesn’t render a salute. Each service is slightly different, like saluting indoors without a cover which Marines cringe at by the way. Be doctrinally sound, not doctrinally bound. It’s good to see so much passion out there though. If a WO ever saluted me back in my LT days I would happily return that courtesy and greeting. It was a rare event though.

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Aug 31 at 2019 3:50 PM

LCpl Jason Keiser — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:50:59 -0400

bull shit it is. follow the regulations. thats what makes the USMC so Prideful and so glamourous.

Response by SSG Rick Reeder made Sep 1 at 2019 2:35 PM

SSG Rick Reeder — Sun, 01 Sep 2019 14:35:24 -0400

I always refer to the regulations. I have had officers tell me that I had to respect them because they were officers. I would salute officers, but that is not respect. Respect is earned, not promoted to. This is not to say that I didn't have officers and Warrants. I knew many who earned that respect, as well as many NCOs. I have been retired for many years and the respect they earned is still there. This is real respect, it is not forced. Too many 2nd LTs think saluting is a sign of respect. It is merely a greeting.

Response by LCpl Michael Harrell made Sep 3 at 2019 2:46 PM

LCpl Michael Harrell — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:46:33 -0400

Being common practice or not, the regulations are the lowest ranking officer, weather they are warrants or lieutenants, initiate the salute and proper military greetings. Are we really having this discussion!!!???

Response by CPT Stanley Reed made Sep 8 at 2019 12:49 PM

CPT Stanley Reed — Sun, 08 Sep 2019 12:49:21 -0400

As a former warrant officer I would not salute other higher ranking warrant officers (virtue among prostitutes). I would and did salute any commissioned officer 2LT and up. The joke was "a warrant officer is an enlisted member with a Oclub card". When I accepted a warrant in the Army, I was a Major in the Air Force. Rank is rank, even if they are an asshole shavetail 2LT.

Response by CPO Joseph Senko made Sep 10 at 2019 12:04 PM

CPO Joseph Senko — Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:04:33 -0400

Yes! It is part of protocol. We salute the rank. It is part of showing respect both ways. I prefer it that way. If a salute is not returned, then tradition as well as proper protocol has failed.

Response by 1stLt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2019 7:10 PM

1stLt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:10:25 -0400

The only time as a Marine that I would expect to be saluted by a 2nd Lt as a 1st Lt is while I'm Acting Company Commander in a company formation, and I give the command for platoon commanders to take charge or dismiss their platoons. That's the only time I would correct him if he didn't render salute.

If a butter bar chooses to salute me any other time, I'll return the salute and go about.

Response by Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr made Oct 10 at 2019 4:30 PM

Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 16:30:08 -0400

Well this one has me scratching my head...????

Response by LCDR Michael Pumilia made Oct 11 at 2019 4:04 PM

LCDR Michael Pumilia — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 16:04:31 -0400

I can only speak as a former Navy O-4 from the way back era of the '70's. Warrant Officers were the specialists while O-line officers were the ship drivers, airedales, sub folk, etc. My E-5 became an E-6, then a W-2 within 18 months. He would have gone to O-1 if he wanted to apply, which he rightfully didn't. So enlisted salutes warrants and officers, warrants salute officers. But in the work environment, it was only once a day upon first meeting. Today and being Marines, things may have changed. Thank God, no more Z-grams !!!

Response by SGT John Steiner made Oct 12 at 2019 1:52 PM

SGT John Steiner — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:52:39 -0400

I've read CW5 Scheller comments
As an enlisted soldier, to see this act of respect between officers,(does not matter
of rank) is showing others that honor and pride in the uniform and as a individual.
Warrent or Commisioned, you've earned those bars. For me, as long as I see officers saluting each other. Who intiates first does not matter to me. The respect is shown.

Response by SGT Marvin Shiplips made Oct 12 at 2019 6:11 PM

SGT Marvin Shiplips — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 18:11:13 -0400

NOBODY should salute an officer unless they are wearing a CIB !!!!

Response by CW5 Les Rayburn made Oct 13 at 2019 11:29 AM

CW5 Les Rayburn — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 11:29:18 -0400

Absolutely. I don’t know why this is a question. Les Rayburn, CW5, US Army Ret

Response by CW5 Les Rayburn made Oct 13 at 2019 11:30 AM

CW5 Les Rayburn — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 11:30:26 -0400

Absolutely. I Don’t know why this is a question. Les Rayburn, CW5, US Army Ret

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2019 8:33 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 08:33:43 -0400

If a 30 year CSM is still required to salute a fresh 2LT, then it seems pretty obvious.

Response by CPT Victor Salazar made Oct 14 at 2019 8:47 AM

CPT Victor Salazar — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 08:47:55 -0400

If a Command Sergeant Major and Sergeant Major can salute a Lieutenant your damn straight a Warrant Officer can.

Response by LCDR Kevin Dean made Oct 14 at 2019 9:30 AM

LCDR Kevin Dean — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 09:30:15 -0400

As a 30-something E-6 with a master's degree and 10+ years of military experience, I dutifully saluted 20-something O-1 officers just out of college, and I was happy to do so. As a Naval officer's brat growing up, I always understood that rank has its responsibilities as well as its privileges. So I was honored to have the opportunity to show respect for those who willingly accepted those additional burdens (regardless of how I felt about them personally). Likewise, when I was commissioned at age 34, I was honored both to receive and return the respect of those junior to me in rank, and to offer and received the respect of those appointed over me. Now retired, I truly miss the military's social and professional standards of courtesy. I would suggest that anyone reluctant or unwilling to offer tangible signs respect those of higher rank likely has larger, more profound personal issues concerning their own arrogance, resentment, insecurity, entitlement, and/or basic antinomianism. Maybe the military isn't really the best fit for them.

Response by SP6 Danny Holman made Oct 14 at 2019 4:42 PM

SP6 Danny Holman — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 16:42:43 -0400

unless in a war zone it is a common courtesy to acknowledge the Superior rank encountered.

Response by SP6 Danny Holman made Oct 14 at 2019 4:49 PM

SP6 Danny Holman — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 16:49:42 -0400

while in a combat area the answer is no, otherwise the common rule of thump is to greet the higher rank on the scale (regardless of personal interpretation) with the salute and wait for the return salute.

Response by LCDR Ernest Heassler made Oct 14 at 2019 6:35 PM

LCDR Ernest Heassler — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 18:35:54 -0400

I'm USN-Ret. and have been both a CWO and regular line officer. I've never heard of the one bar rule. It has always been required that the junior officer always salute the senior, regardless of the number of bars involved. It is not an act of subservience, but an act of respect. In a shipboard environment where crew and officers are in close proximity to one another throughout the day, a salute is required during the first encounter of the day and none thereafter. I would make exceptions for the CO and XO, however regardless of their rank.

Response by SGT William Benson made Oct 16 at 2019 12:25 PM

SGT William Benson — Wed, 16 Oct 2019 12:25:48 -0400

The Enlisted Ranks, as well as the body of Warrant Officers are required to salute Commissioned Officers - end of story. Whether it is a crusty old Sergeant Major or a Marine Gunner, they are expected to render the initial salute to a Commissioned Officer - even a lowly Midshipman or Ensign...
That having been said, it is the wise Officer who takes into account the cumulative experience of said SgtMaj or Marine Gunner and doesn't press the issue - ANNND (bouncing the ball back over the net) said crusty old SgtMaj and Warrant Officer should be the Consummate Professional, and follow the dictates of the Service and render the proper old hoary traditional gesture of salutation to "lead by example" to maintain that "Good Order and Discipline".
Now, within the unit, Officers and Warrants may come to an accord, but they must remember that that young Private is watching, and will take away from the scene his/her own observations (and it spreads throughout the unit)... So refrain from saluting with care and a mind towards the impact of this SOP.
The best outfit I was in saw Sergeants saluting one another because that's how warriors greeted each other. Felt good: High level of motivation and lethality...

Response by Sgt Dorothy Skala made Oct 17 at 2019 12:14 PM

Sgt Dorothy Skala — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:14:06 -0400

Simple if it is in the regulation

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2019 8:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 20:09:39 -0400

I think they don't salute because they simply get tired of saluting. I've seen officers take different routes just to avoid saluting each. It isnt the book answer but it's what Ive seen. Best answer is to follow the regulations and you can't go wrong!

Response by LTC Nathan Hines made Oct 18 at 2019 12:36 AM

LTC Nathan Hines — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 00:36:16 -0400

Regs Regs Regs...we all know the deal! CSM salutes a 2LT so does a CW5...is there really a question here?

Response by SPC Mike Polston made Oct 18 at 2019 4:59 PM

SPC Mike Polston — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 16:59:26 -0400

We always salute our superiors and they return the salute, unless there are regulations or policies against it, such as a combat situation. When I was stationed at an Airfield there was a policy in place that saluting was not required due to the number of pilots (both Officers and Warrant Officers) and enlisted working there. Had that policy not been in place, people would have been saluting someone every few steps.

Response by GySgt Kent Murray made Oct 19 at 2019 12:27 AM

GySgt Kent Murray — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:27:13 -0400

You are wrong , as the LT is senior to a Warrant you would render the salute - period ! I don’t know what Marine Corps you spoke to but not any I served !

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made Oct 19 at 2019 12:36 AM

CW2 Jalistair B — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:36:30 -0400

Not sure how things are in the Marines, but in the Army Warrant officers salute 2LTs.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2019 11:53 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 11:53:41 -0400

The exchange of salutes is both traditional and time honored. The time and place of this exchange should be respected, and not never used in a combat zone for obvious reasons. Having been a Lieutenant I was honored to receive a salute from any subordinate and in turn returned the salute recognizing that individual. I the course of my time in uniform I gave out more salutes than I have ever received. Yours, CPT Crane

Response by Capt David Nixon made Oct 19 at 2019 5:18 PM

Capt David Nixon — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:18:40 -0400

I was a company grade Marine officer and never expected a warrant officer to salute me, although if one did, I would have happily returned the salute.

Response by Capt David Nixon made Oct 19 at 2019 5:20 PM

Capt David Nixon — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:20:29 -0400

I was a company grade Marine officer and can't recall having been saluted by a warrant officer. Had one initiated a salute, I would have cheerfully returned it.

Response by CW4 Dave Melchert made Oct 20 at 2019 8:57 AM

CW4 Dave Melchert — Sun, 20 Oct 2019 08:57:15 -0400

Salute the Rank!

Response by SSG Jason Penn made Nov 10 at 2019 10:24 AM

SSG Jason Penn — Sun, 10 Nov 2019 10:24:29 -0500

I don't know about the Marines, but in the Army, our regulation on Customs and Courtesies dictates that ALL junior soldiers and officers salute ALL senior officers, meaning that 2LTs salute 1LTs, WO1s salute CWO2s, and ALL Warrants salute ALL Commissioned Officers. It is all about recognizing the senior rank. Wow, finally found something that the Army is more strict on than the Marines.

Response by CMSgt Thomas Halcum made Nov 11 at 2019 7:07 AM

CMSgt Thomas Halcum — Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:07:00 -0500

As a CMSGT E-9 in the Air Force, I can't really answer that, but a salute is a greeting to a fellow military man or women

Response by Col Douglas Robinson made Nov 12 at 2019 11:45 PM

Col Douglas Robinson — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 23:45:12 -0500

Well, there is a hierarchy of rank from E-1 to O-10, including the W's between the Es n Os. You remember that from basic right???? Why in hell would you ask such a stupid question? Saluting is a courtesy greeting that started in the middle ages when Knights raised their weapon handling hand to raise their helmet face visor for friendly recognition. Why let your personal feeling of superiority question one of the militarys longest standing tradition. If the USMC condones the "one bar" rule then senior leadership is remiss and degrading the Corps.

Response by SSgt Pamela Upton made Nov 13 at 2019 1:59 PM

SSgt Pamela Upton — Wed, 13 Nov 2019 13:59:38 -0500

USAF-I was always taught that the lowest ranker salutes the upper rank first.
It appears to work fine that way-why make it so complex? Respect is respect.
Now, I am unsure about a Warrent Officer, but I think that they do salute first usually-however,
to salute a Second LT first-hummmmmmm-I would say no to that-ha!

Response by GySgt Neal Perdue made Nov 13 at 2019 8:48 PM

GySgt Neal Perdue — Wed, 13 Nov 2019 20:48:01 -0500

Yes, they should. Let's stop trying to fix things that ain't broke. A warrant officer is at the bottom of the food chain in the officer ranks. No matter if they have been in for 5 years or 25 years. It is all about respect and tradition. Let's stop pissing away our "Traditions". Why do our current military members feel it is a bother to do some of the "Simple" things. To me, some of these military members wouldn't have made it when I was in, and most definitely wouldn't have made it "back in the day"! Also, I have a little more respect for a Warrant Officer because they were in my shoes at one time, and as long as they remember "where they came from" (prior enlisted). Just an old GySgt's take on this.

"Semper Fi"
nap

Response by SGT Ronald Sawyer made Nov 14 at 2019 9:41 AM

SGT Ronald Sawyer — Thu, 14 Nov 2019 09:41:24 -0500

Only as a sign of respect or friendship

Response by Sgt James D. made Nov 15 at 2019 9:26 PM

Sgt James D. — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 21:26:59 -0500

well the person who wrote this said 1st Lt and warrant officers didn't well in my corps days if you were junior to the other person in the officer ranks you saluted them warrant offiers saluted 2nd Lts and both of those saluted 1st Lts, anything less muddies the rank structure! I as a nco never allowed ncos of less time in grade as me call me by my first name even though some say it is acceptable! I also never addressed some one senior to me other than by their rank and last name, if you get too friendly with persons junior to you it makes it too hard to send them into harms way! always showing respect by saluting keeps that in the proper place!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2019 12:26 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 12:26:43 -0500

Yes

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Nov 17 at 2019 12:32 PM

Lt Col George Roll — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 12:32:28 -0500

Saluting , ( Not in a field enviorment where an enemy can determine who the officer is and s ipe him/her) is a gesture of mutual respect. For instance criminal or disciplinary prisoners are not allowed to salute they are denied this gesture of professional respect.
I proudly salute my superions in rank as I salute our Flag!

Response by SSG John Lalli made Nov 17 at 2019 2:26 PM

SSG John Lalli — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:26:14 -0500

Simple, Enlisted salute Officers. All Officers. Warrents salute butterbars. Butterbars salute 1LTs so on so forth.

Response by SPC Russ Bolton made Nov 17 at 2019 7:27 PM

SPC Russ Bolton — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:27:53 -0500

We are taught to salute or give the higher rank the add respect, a captain salutes a major. I know that warrant officers are held to a different level. I would just say yes out of respect for the rank and status. For example a company commander can't just walk into a motor pool and have all of the assignments changed without the warrant officer's acknowledgment.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Nov 17 at 2019 9:36 PM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 21:36:40 -0500

Customs and Courtesy basics. The color and numbes of the bars are really does not matter. Jr salutes Sr and Sr Returns that salute.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2019 10:32 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:32:06 -0500

Not in the Marine Corps.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Nov 18 at 2019 11:44 AM

SFC Phillip Allen — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 11:44:11 -0500

This simply a question of military customs and courtesies. Very simple really. In other yes, you salute the rank of the individual before and return the courtesy accordingly. Case closed.

Response by CWO5 Jeffrey Backus made Nov 18 at 2019 1:56 PM

CWO5 Jeffrey Backus — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:56:07 -0500

As a PFC with about 3 months in the fleet I observed another Marine approaching from my left flank. I glanced up, saw another PFC and continued down my path. The Marine said "Hey, why didn't you salute me"? I looked again and the PFC had turned into a 2ndLt. I immediately saluted and said I'm sorry, the sun was in my eyes and I mistook your rank, problem solved. As a Wobbly One in TBS, we were ordered to salute ALL 2ndLt's, which we did on occasion. That requirement was kind of ridiculous depending on the location, since there might be 200 WO's walking the opposite direction as 200 2ndLt's. I can only recall one or two incidents where a 2ndLt called out a WO for failing to salute the entire 3 months we were there, and those were mainly because the WO ignored the Lt. I always gave the Lt's a friendly greeting and never got into any discussions about it. The WO's and Lt's mostly agreed with the "one bar rule" (outside of TBS). Through my 22 years from WO to CWO5, I never had an issue with providing salutes when they were needed. Even after I retired and became a DOD Police Officer, I rendered thousands of salutes to any officer and/or his or her dependents whilst they drove through the gates.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 8:40 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:40:30 -0500

Most Warrants don't like saluting anyone, except maybe a General, but the idea that there needs to be an exception due to a guy being a butter bar is crap. It is special unwritten rules like this that bleed over into other areas. Before you know it, Joe's believe they don't have to salute because the Warrant doesn't.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Nov 20 at 2019 2:32 PM

LTC James McElreath — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 14:32:53 -0500

The one change for me is the disrespect the soldiers have for their senior NCO's and Officers. I do not know when things started going down hill. If you do not expect your personnel to establish respect for rank than they too will become more disrespectful. I spent a yr in Iraq, ran into this with how the AGR soldiers treated senior officers and senior NCO's. They refused to salute any rank. I had never seen this in any of my Medical unit assignments but Civil Affairs is a totally different animal! The Bn Cdr was a fill in and shared a senior ranks billet with 2 subordinate Majors. He allowed the Maj's to run amuck. To answer the real question, who salutes who. Look at a annual pay sheet. it is setup up not only but it reminds who salutes who. The lowest LT salutes who ever who outranks who. The fact with warrants is that the most senior W-4 are required to salute 2LT. This is a sign of respecting a superior rank expects.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Nov 26 at 2019 1:17 PM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 13:17:43 -0500

Problem: Even if that 1 Bar Rule "is" an accepted practice within The USMC, it isn't across the other branches of service ie: An 0-1 is an 0-1. I truly doubt if this is a Corps wide accepted policy, for that reason.

Response by MAJ Lee Goehl made Nov 30 at 2019 3:08 PM

MAJ Lee Goehl — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 15:08:53 -0500

When I was a 1LT I was a Troop Commander and yes the 2LTs and the WOs saluted when we interacted. It is a matter of professional bearing.

Response by SGT Thomas Seward made Dec 1 at 2019 8:24 PM

SGT Thomas Seward — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 20:24:31 -0500

My dad was a Marine Warrant Officer in the 60’s and he said that the Marines have a totally different outlook on Warrant Officers. They are not ‘officers’ and therefore exempt from OOD and other duties that butter bars are so good at.
The Army used to look at it differently.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2019 6:26 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 18:26:04 -0500

Yup, sure should.

Response by Cpl Chex Lemeneux made Dec 14 at 2019 5:42 PM

Cpl Chex Lemeneux — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:42:17 -0500

I've seen it where the CWO initiates but I have also witnessed a higher rank initiate a salute to a CWO.
We had a Gunner in our Battalion that had had a short story written about his actions in Vietnam and I regularly witnessed our Battalion XO (Major) as well as our Battalion CO (Lt. Col) both initiate a salute to that specific warrior. I even asked the XO once why even though I had a good idea of his reasoning. He told me that when a person had seen and done the things that man had done for the Corps, rank had absolutely nothing to do with.

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Dec 15 at 2019 5:40 PM

SFC Ken Heise — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:40:05 -0500

In short yes. I had a great conversation with a CW5 I had the pleasure to work with. You could have knocked me over with a feather when he told me a brand new 2LT out ranks him. I replied no way. And he simply said, yes, it’s true.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2019 9:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:20:28 -0500

I salute all Officers regardless of branch affiliation it’s just an auto instant respect. When I see Soldiers walk pass and their lame excuse claim it’s because they are engaged in a conversation when clearly they’re facing them gosh I snap. Had a whole bunch dropped and explained their deficiencies for quite a min and it was very hot on the concrete those dancing fingers I hope let them understand to do better.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Dec 16 at 2019 1:17 AM

LCpl Cody Collins — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:17:17 -0500

Some warrant officers have about as much knowledge and experience as a Captain. Depending when they became Warrant officers, this is a tricky question because it would come down to a matter of saluting out of respect for their experience and ( time in ). Verses a 2nd LT. Just graduating from OCS with text book experience. Most Warrant Officers have already
" Cut their teeth " while they were enlisted, vs someone straight off the street.

Response by 1stSgt Jeff Blovat made Dec 16 at 2019 1:08 PM

1stSgt Jeff Blovat — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 13:08:25 -0500

Makes sense to me.

Response by PFC Ray Aquila made Dec 16 at 2019 4:55 PM

PFC Ray Aquila — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:55:58 -0500

Notice What comes after Warrant....."OFFICER." During my Nam days some 50+ years ago. Warrant Officers mainly flew the Hueys/ Chanooks/Cobras, etc. Warrants were also performing office duty and some in command of communications/radio stations. I never saw a Warrant salute a 1st/2nd Lt, and vise versa.

Response by PO1 Kenneth Brock made Dec 17 at 2019 11:04 AM

PO1 Kenneth Brock — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:04:21 -0500

As a Boatswain Mate Petty Officer First Class I ranked competent authority in customs, ceremonies and traditions. Officers will, shall, must render salutes and return the courtesy to junior personnel regardless of your rank.

Response by SSG John Lehmer made Dec 17 at 2019 11:45 AM

SSG John Lehmer — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:45:53 -0500

Learn the regulations. Nuff said.

Response by CPT David Tanner made Dec 17 at 2019 1:16 PM

CPT David Tanner — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 13:16:51 -0500

According to regulations, all warrants and chief warrants are supposed to initiate the salute to 1st and 2and LTs. And all non-enlisted that receive a salute should return one if hands are not full or under cover. Traditionally, 1st & 2and LTs do not salute each other. Not sure about warrant tradition.

Response by CW5 Dennis Stewart made Dec 17 at 2019 2:03 PM

CW5 Dennis Stewart — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:03:04 -0500

I saluted everybody! even as a CW5 it was just a nice way to say hello. I will say there were time when Majors and Colonels would salute me first as I was the oldest guy in the unit. I was 57 with 36 years iof service when I deployed the last time to Iraq. Most of the kids thought my CW 5 bar was some kind of Third lieutenant. Just a friendly gesture to a comrade in arms

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Dec 17 at 2019 5:48 PM

LTJG Sandra Smith — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 17:48:24 -0500

When I went through OI (back in the pre- all-volunteer days), we were told all enlisted ah warrants salut us as commissioned officers, that warrants are officers too, but not commissioned by acts of Congress (go figure!), but by Presidential act, if memory serves. In any case a MOH automatically negated all that, and I salute that holder.. As a nurse, I was really less concerned with that than field officers seemed to be, as were most of my fellow nurses. Any or all of that may have change in the last 1/2 century since.

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Dec 17 at 2019 8:09 PM

SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:09:04 -0500

If they out rank them hell no.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Dec 18 at 2019 7:38 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 19:38:37 -0500

As a Command Master Chief with 30 years Service I GREET every Officer with a salute! This goes for EVERY W-1 and UP no questions asked. If I see you on the street and you don't then be prepared to answer to me Why you are too good to render proper Military Respect. It may not be then and there but it will happen!
Aboard Ships we do have different rules, but that is not part of this discussion. I am talking about the normal situation of walking down the street or on a parade field one on one.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Dec 19 at 2019 9:56 AM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:56:58 -0500

I spent 40 years on active duty and in the Reserves with a ton of it as a warrant officer, retiring as a CWO4. I cannot believe this is even being asked. Of course WO's salute ALL commissioned officers -- even the worst 2nd Lt. is saluted! And what millennial invented this "one bar rule"? Be professional, show some pride, do your job, quit looking for shortcuts!

Response by SGT John Hacker made Dec 19 at 2019 11:44 AM

SGT John Hacker — Thu, 19 Dec 2019 11:44:24 -0500

an officer's rank, not the man, should always be saluted, by enlisted, or junior rank.

Response by CPL Johnnie White made Dec 19 at 2019 10:31 PM

CPL Johnnie White — Thu, 19 Dec 2019 22:31:17 -0500

Charlie would like to see you salute and that was the next sniper target. We never saluted captain or below because of this.
WO s fit that category but then they were not in the field the one I knew was a n office paper pusher. Forgive me my memory is a bit off, that was 68-69. Then ther is the age, 71..

Response by LCDR Tj Oman made Dec 20 at 2019 6:29 PM

LCDR Tj Oman — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 18:29:38 -0500

I can't help but wonder... If this is really a question being asked, WTF are they teaching in Recruit Training / Boot Camp these days? If you, as a soldier or sailor, are not totally indoctrinated with this most rudimentary knowledge of military courtesy and tradition by the time you enter the 'real' military, something is truly brokedick with the training. Oh yeah. I forgot. It's no longer a traditional military fighting force... it's a politically correct social experiment, so the curriculum has changed.

Response by LCDR Tj Oman made Dec 20 at 2019 6:30 PM

LCDR Tj Oman — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 18:30:05 -0500

I can't help but wonder... If this is really a question being asked, WTF are they teaching in Recruit Training / Boot Camp these days? If you, as a soldier or sailor, are not totally indoctrinated with this most rudimentary knowledge of military courtesy and tradition by the time you enter the 'real' military, something is truly broke-dick with the training. Oh yeah. I forgot. It's no longer a traditional military fighting force... it's a politically correct social experiment, so the curriculum has changed.

Response by CW3 He Nri Vscab made Dec 21 at 2019 7:05 PM

CW3 He Nri Vscab — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:05:27 -0500

27 years ago I could provide a response to these questions. Today, based upon what I see of our military, the US army is alien to me.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Dec 21 at 2019 11:11 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Sat, 21 Dec 2019 23:11:01 -0500

Sailors have a different saluting tradition aboard ship. Juniors salute senior officers only upon their first meeting of the day while on deck. Only the Captain is saluted upon every meeting when the junior officer is under cover. Ensigns/LTjg and CWO are usually division officers equal in position. Except for formal musters or ceremonies, it's not uncommon for O-1/2's and CWO to be casual with saluting.

Response by COL Jerry C. made Dec 22 at 2019 11:12 AM

COL Jerry C. — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 11:12:40 -0500

I am a bit surprised at the question, and I do not mean this to be disparaging, simply surprised. Army regulation (600-20) is clear on this and can be further addressed in FM7-21-13. "Being an effective part of a team as a soldier means knowing your role and the rules for that team." I agree with CW5 Michele Scheller ´ What we are truly discussing is a professional exchange or greeting." The salute is not simply an honor exchanged. It is a privileged gesture of respect and trust among soldiers. Remember the salute is not only prescribed by regulation but is also recognition of each other’s commitment, abilities, and professionalism. The salute is generally misunderstood outside the military. It is NOT a gesture of servility simply because a junior extends a salute to the senior, however, we know that it is exactly the opposite. "The salute is an expression that recognizes each other as a member of the profession of arms; that they have made a personal commitment of self-sacrifice to preserve our way of life." The fact that the junior extends the greeting first is merely a point of etiquette-a salute extended or returned makes the same statement. The way you salute says a lot about you as a soldier. Saluting is a privilege which is precisely why a post-trial military prisoner convicted of a crime by court-martial has lost that right, among others. They will stand at attention at appropriate times per the prison, brig or stockade regulations, but they never render a salute.

Response by 1LT John Greene made Dec 22 at 2019 3:09 PM

1LT John Greene — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 15:09:20 -0500

I’m an old Army officer and agree with the Warrant. The exception might be if the Officer is your commander and issuing a formal order. I personally think saluting is a recognition + greeting and is situation dependent between one-bars.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2019 4:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 16:45:08 -0500

Saluting is a basic component of Military customs and courtesies. It reinforces good order and discipline, so break out the salute and keep it moving. If you are above something simple as saluting, and it bothers you that much, you need to find another line of work.

Response by SPC Stephen Walsh made Dec 22 at 2019 6:22 PM

SPC Stephen Walsh — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 18:22:45 -0500

I just read that the Airborne Polish General at Arnhem. Worked as a warehouse forklift driver after the war. As he drove around the warehouse other Polish veteran would stop and salute him.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Dec 23 at 2019 10:18 AM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 10:18:54 -0500

Having been a lowly sergeant in the 60's this question never came up. However I was taught that one always saluted warrant and commissioned officers. I never heard of a one bar rule. Obviously if you were working in close proximity through out the day you didn't salute every time you came in the room.
Would this also apply to general officers when they met one another?

Response by CPT Tommy Curtis made Dec 23 at 2019 5:30 PM

CPT Tommy Curtis — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:30:54 -0500

I will just add if you are a 1LT and you force a 2LT to salute you, you are a complete asshat. The only time one should salute is if they are made Company Commander or equivalent.

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Dec 23 at 2019 10:59 PM

SGT Stephen Jaffe — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:59:59 -0500

As an enlisted person, I was taught to salute officers unless SOP dictated a change such as being in a combat zone. Knowing that commissioned officers outrank a warrant officer, I would assume it is proper for a warrant officer to salute a commissioned officer starting with O1 (2nd Lieutenant).

Response by LCpl Bob Morgan made Dec 24 at 2019 5:38 PM

LCpl Bob Morgan — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 17:38:40 -0500

It is courtesy for officers to greet or in passing to salute and the "1" bar rule should be adjusted

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2020 4:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 16:20:07 -0500

Yes.

Response by SMSgt Cary Baker made Jan 17 at 2020 10:36 AM

SMSgt Cary Baker — Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:36:27 -0500

All commissioned officers should be saluted - by law - hopefully, you're saluting out of respect and not by law.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2020 7:29 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jan 2020 19:29:12 -0500

Yes, warrants salute LT.

Response by CW4 Frank Merryman made Jan 18 at 2020 12:40 AM

CW4 Frank Merryman — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 00:40:24 -0500

Every officer, O1 and above out ranks a WO1 and above so we salute them, no matter what branch or country, a matter of military courtesy.

Response by CWO4 Josh Henley made Jan 18 at 2020 3:32 PM

CWO4 Josh Henley — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 15:32:46 -0500

That is between you and yours... and I as a Coast Guard CWO would not bat an eye if it were a Marine... but I would salute a Marine Warrant (even a W1,before he/she saluted me)... but that is just me. CWO-4 sends... ;-)

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 22 at 2020 1:10 AM

CPT William Jones — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 01:10:15 -0500

I don’t know about Marine customs But when I was in service (Army) long ago the junior SM Initiated a salute along with the proper greeting and the Senior SM returned the greeting and salute. The junior SM held their salute until it was returned. A person of same rank was usually just passed a greeting.

Response by PO1 Ted Woitazek made Jan 22 at 2020 4:46 AM

PO1 Ted Woitazek — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 04:46:58 -0500

What do regulations require?

Response by MSgt Stephen Watson made Jan 22 at 2020 1:22 PM

MSgt Stephen Watson — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 13:22:12 -0500

Although I have been retired for 24 years, I have never heard of the "one bar rule". Junior officers salute seniors. That's protocol. "Warrant",Officers are just that. Promoted by warrant, ( just as enlisted personnel are), and NOT by commission. During my 22 years in the Corps, I knew some 1st Lieutenants that would remove a piece of a 2nd Lieutenant's ass for not saluting. The worst were the "ring knockers". The Naval Academy grads. 90% were outstanding officers for the most part. 10% thought they were, "God's gift to the Corps". Another subject not addressed is the "Mustang officers".

Response by TSgt Richard Adams made Jan 24 at 2020 9:46 AM

TSgt Richard Adams — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:46:12 -0500

Simple answer...Yes.

Response by Cpl John Asano made Jan 24 at 2020 9:02 PM

Cpl John Asano — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 21:02:36 -0500

Yes! Without question. The warrant officer’s age, experience or seniority isn’t the point. The warrant officer ranks below the Lt. It is regulation, tradition and military respect.

Response by SGT Martha Cain made Jan 25 at 2020 3:01 AM

SGT Martha Cain — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 03:01:47 -0500

As a brand new soldier, I learned to salute in the airborne infantry. I knew, worked for & highly respected WOs & CWOs. A salute is a traditional & ancient greeting denoting respect. It is much more significant than mere regulation. Warrant Officer/2lt=one bar rule, but a 1Lt is greeted w/ proper salute. Exception only in war zone where saluting & visible rank is forbidden. In the field, preparing for overseas deployment, I realized how beautiful the ancient greeting of salute was...like a hail & too often farewell.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2020 1:42 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:42:51 -0500

What kind of question is this? Definitely.
I learned to so salute, even when in doubt. As a 2LT I saluted 1LTs out of respect for the structure and the individual. Since I am near sighted, many times I saluted Warrant Officers because I couldnt see the dots on their bars. I never felt ashamed for doing it... at least I made those folks feel good about themselves, and we had a chuckle about it.

Response by 1LT Timothy Kahn made Jan 26 at 2020 6:38 AM

1LT Timothy Kahn — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 06:38:54 -0500

That’s crap. I was a “mustang”, it was required for me to salute any officer, because (believe it or not) it is in every service manual & something that’s taught from the first day in the service!!! The only persons that I did not salute were officers of the same rank. Working in the medical field, I actually had two officers that out ranked me, although I was their superior in title & had to follow my orders (one was even a 0-5, & I, an 0-2). Yet, I would still salute them!!

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Jan 26 at 2020 12:23 PM

1SG John Highfill — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:23:50 -0500

Yes Warrant Officers salute Lieutenants
By rank structure

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Jan 26 at 2020 11:57 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 23:57:30 -0500

I was taught at Paris Island that enlisted will salute ALL officers when it is appropriate. All officers will render the appropriate salute and greeting to higher ranking officers and politicos in their chain of command. This includes warrant grade OFFICERS and people like the Sec. Nav., President, etc... Without being disrespectful Gunny, WTF ??? Is the Corps not passing on that intel any more ? It used to be required knowledge. Then again, a lot changes in 35 years. Semper Fi Gunny.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2020 10:42 PM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 22:42:38 -0500

I heard the "no honor among Lieutenants" rule back in the early 1980s, right alongside the statement that when 1Lt became Capt., "Jim" became "Captain" and "Sir" to 2Lt.

Response by 1LT James Rosebrough made Feb 17 at 2020 10:10 PM

1LT James Rosebrough — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 22:10:53 -0500

Hey, WO, you better damn well salute me.

Response by Hannah Paz made Feb 19 at 2020 8:29 AM

Hannah Paz — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:29:14 -0500

Yes,because the 2nd Lieutenant is a higher rank than the 1st Lieutenant.

Response by SSG Bill Cooke made Feb 19 at 2020 7:36 PM

SSG Bill Cooke — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 19:36:20 -0500

In the Army All Salute commissioned officer, Enlisted, Warrant, and other Commissioned Officers. Other Branches have their own rules.

Response by SSG Bruce True made Feb 20 at 2020 9:41 AM

SSG Bruce True — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:41:36 -0500

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Feb 20 at 2020 10:06 AM

CW5 Mark Smith — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:06:08 -0500

I can't address the Marine Corps "one bar" tradition since I was Marine Corps enlisted prior to becoming Army NCO and eventually a Warrant Officer. Given the discipline standards and heavy tradition of the Marines, it would surprise me that they would forego both and not render a salute. I've always considered it an honor to salute an honor to salute and be saluted.......with one exception. When my son was commisioned, I was an active duty CW4. Saluting my offspring seemed a bit odd......but it was an honor to do so.

Response by LCDR Mike Walker made Feb 20 at 2020 4:09 PM

LCDR Mike Walker — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 16:09:31 -0500

A higher ranking officer always deserves a salute from a subordinate.

Response by Cpl Shane Dickinson made Feb 20 at 2020 4:32 PM

Cpl Shane Dickinson — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 16:32:57 -0500

No CWO’s go through OCS also they should not salute Lieutenant’s captains on the other hand I think yes they should just my opinion

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made Feb 21 at 2020 2:09 PM

SSG Clayton Lam — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:09:44 -0500

yes

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2020 4:16 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:16:02 -0500

Was this written by an Lt?

Response by Maj Chris Clark made Feb 21 at 2020 10:08 PM

Maj Chris Clark — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 22:08:48 -0500

Is this a real question? Things must have changed since I retired in 2003 or since I was commissioned in ‘82. Warrant Officers and Chief Warrant always and I mean always salute 2nd Lieutenants. And not to sound like a dik, I would have had words with any Warrant officer or Chief Warrant officer who thought different. Fortunately, almost every Warrant Officer I ever worked with, or met in any situation was a true professional. In fact, I cannot remember one Marine Warrant officer fail to initiate a professional greeting in the form of a salute.

Response by SGT Robert Whirles made Feb 22 at 2020 8:57 AM

SGT Robert Whirles — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 08:57:55 -0500

if they are equal in rank, an O1 ,same as w1 should saute each other with the first to should initiate the salute. But if it is an O1 and a W2,3,4,5, the O1 should throw the salute first.

Response by SPC Donald Reece made Feb 23 at 2020 1:22 AM

SPC Donald Reece — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 01:22:57 -0500

should I think but don't have to

Response by LTC Ray Morris made Feb 23 at 2020 10:20 AM

LTC Ray Morris — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:20:19 -0500

Again, I can't believe I'm reading this. Army regs say you will salute all standards and commissioned military ranks greater than your own. Period. 2nd LTs salute 1st LTs. Warrant officers salute 2nd LTs and above. Period. It's a military greeting, and a sign of respect for the RANK, not necessarily the person! I might add, it is also an honour for both the saluter and the "salutee." View it as such.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2020 1:24 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 13:24:16 -0500

Only in public

Response by MAJ T Ferris made Feb 24 at 2020 6:22 AM

MAJ T Ferris — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 06:22:40 -0500

Technically, a Warrent Officer 1-4 is supposed to Salute a 2LT. However, it was rarely done one the Army. I never thought it was a big deal. It would have felt weird if a Chief Warrent Officer had Saluted me when I was a LT.

Response by SGT Andrew Mace made Feb 24 at 2020 9:53 AM

SGT Andrew Mace — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 09:53:04 -0500

Who thinks up some of these questions?

Response by PO1 Ronald Parker made Feb 24 at 2020 1:21 PM

PO1 Ronald Parker — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 13:21:36 -0500

Saluting an officer, any officer, is not based on rank, it is based on respect. You don't have to respect the individual in the uniform, you have to respect the uniform.

Response by LCpl Rich Vail made Feb 24 at 2020 7:46 PM

LCpl Rich Vail — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 19:46:46 -0500

As a matter of USMJ, of course Warrants must salute a ButterBar or a SilverBar as they are commissioned officers and warrants only hold a warrant. OTH, there is an old time tradition is that they don't BECAUSE of the "one bar rule". But then, Lt's and Warrants arguing about seniority brings to mind the old joke about prostitutes arguing who is senior...

Response by CW4 John Soto made Feb 24 at 2020 9:57 PM

CW4 John Soto — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 21:57:06 -0500

In the Army you do salute a 1LT or 2LT if you are a Warrant Officer. At the WOC in Ft Rucker, lower ranking WO will salute higher ranking WO.

Response by LTC David Howard made Feb 26 at 2020 8:48 AM

LTC David Howard — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 08:48:33 -0500

I guess these old threads never go away. This is simple: a warrant officer is obligated to salute a commissioned officer, just as enlisted soldiers (regardless of rank) are obligated to initiate the salute to an officer (regardless of rank). I'm not sure why anyone would even have a question about this.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2020 11:23 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Mar 2020 23:23:04 -0400

Never seen it happen in the fleet. Warrants exist in their own world. Warrants answer to Department heads and not to Division officers. Would a Warrant be criticized for saluting an Ensign or Lieutenant, no.

Would a Warrant be criticized for not saluting an Ensign or Lieutenant. Not usually. All Warrant and junior officers kind of exist in a weird realm of equality in costum and courtesy, and emphasis is placed on jobs. I.E. a Warrant will still call his department head sir outside the washroom, and usually give Divo's the respect of their title, if not the usual sir or ma'am.

Response by MAJ Phil Bundy made Mar 22 at 2020 11:59 AM

MAJ Phil Bundy — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 11:59:32 -0400

Why is this even a question? If that 2LT or 1LT outranks you, pull your head out of your fourth point of contact and render the salute.

Response by CWO4 Frank Williams made Mar 22 at 2020 2:58 PM

CWO4 Frank Williams — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 14:58:19 -0400

I always saluted every LT while on active duty. It’s not only about professionalism it is about setting the example for others and showing respect for each other as officers!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2020 11:11 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 11:11:03 -0400

I go along with the Military protocol of the One Bar rule..., but I would say that Warrant Officers are in many ways equal to junior officers...who generally have more experience than a young Lt. Many not agree, but that is how I see it as a 77-YO USAF Disabled Veteran...

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Mar 30 at 2020 10:28 AM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 10:28:38 -0400

Thats a stupid question It started out that a salute was a sign to show you were friendly. It is a sign of respect. Even if you don't respect the person you respect the rank. He is an officer by virtue of a warrant. Now you say and NCO is an officer also. His is only a commission . Any leader is considered an officer. Thats why the army has a Sp/4 rating. They tried specialists in all the ranks but it didn't work out very well because NCO,s were leaders and specialists were not, but still had the same privilege that the NCo,s had, with less responsibility. Sp/4,s usually only enlist for 3yrs. they then get discharged. In the Marine Corp every Marine is expected to be a leader, even from the lowest rank if needed. It was always next man up. The new Hi-tech. Army will go back to the specialist ranks some day. After all we now have a new branch of military called the Space force still being organized. Semper Fi.

Response by Cpl Charles Trump made Mar 30 at 2020 5:11 PM

Cpl Charles Trump — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 17:11:16 -0400

I dont think there is an issue unless its somewhere in the regs.

Response by SMSgt Joseph Fitzhenry made Apr 6 at 2020 12:45 PM

SMSgt Joseph Fitzhenry — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 12:45:27 -0400

Should Brigadier Generals salute Major Generals? Yes. Question answered.

Response by CPL Joseph Langone made Apr 6 at 2020 1:08 PM

CPL Joseph Langone — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 13:08:14 -0400

Not necessary But nothing wrong if he does,just gets a salute back.

Response by PFC Chris Altobelli made Apr 8 at 2020 11:35 PM

PFC Chris Altobelli — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 23:35:52 -0400

Makes sense honestly

Response by PFC Chris Altobelli made Apr 8 at 2020 11:36 PM

PFC Chris Altobelli — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 23:36:36 -0400

Sounds reasonable that they wouldn't.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2020 3:31 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:31:19 -0400

Yes

Response by SPC Brandon Israel made Apr 12 at 2020 12:51 AM

SPC Brandon Israel — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 00:51:18 -0400

I think I have the answer but I want to know from others, why the warrent ranks were created?

Response by Amn John Kuntz made May 1 at 2020 7:06 PM

Amn John Kuntz — Fri, 01 May 2020 19:06:11 -0400

Some but not all 2nd & 1st LT's have only held their rank for a very short time. They are still learning. On the other hand, most all Warrant Officers have worked hard, some for years, to get their rank. I feel the LT'S should initiate salutes to Warrant Officers.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made May 2 at 2020 12:34 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Sat, 02 May 2020 00:34:15 -0400

The 24 year seasoned WO has to salute a 90 day wonders [2nd Lt] who is having trouble finding the latrine. Simple, put the LT under the supervision of the WO for 12 months to learn the job they are assigned to do.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2020 4:24 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 May 2020 16:24:42 -0400

How to render a proper greeting to a Warrant Officer: if it is after 1200, “good afternoon, chief. Want to grab a beer after work?”
Before 1200, “good morning, chief...the coffe is hot.”

Response by SPC Bryan Spicer made May 3 at 2020 9:44 AM

SPC Bryan Spicer — Sun, 03 May 2020 09:44:20 -0400

Response by SPC Andrew Murray made May 4 at 2020 9:18 AM

SPC Andrew Murray — Mon, 04 May 2020 09:18:47 -0400

If a 2LT has a date of rank of May 2, 2020 passes another 2LT with a dor of May 3, 2020 and today is May 4th, 2020 who salutes whom?

Response by Jerry Rivas made May 4 at 2020 5:21 PM

Jerry Rivas — Mon, 04 May 2020 17:21:41 -0400

Technically anytime a man of one rank meets a man of superior rank, he must salute. All is well and good until a snd Looie meets a 1st looie with a stick up his ass then all hell jumps off.

Response by MAJ Tom Harper made May 5 at 2020 6:31 PM

MAJ Tom Harper — Tue, 05 May 2020 18:31:36 -0400

After being an enlisted Marine and later soldier in the Army Reserve I was commissioned in the Reserves. This is back when we still had pay call on the last full day at AT. As pay officer every soldier getting paid had to report to and salute me at the pay table. I returned every single one of those salutes, hopefully as well as I learned how at MCRD San Diego. Our 1SG told me I didn't have to, but I firmly believe that for every salute given one will be returned.

Response by CW4 Dana Ahl made May 6 at 2020 3:50 PM

CW4 Dana Ahl — Wed, 06 May 2020 15:50:04 -0400

We always salute. It is considered a professional exchange and a sign of respect among soldiers.

Response by MSgt Horace Smith made May 7 at 2020 3:51 PM

MSgt Horace Smith — Thu, 07 May 2020 15:51:57 -0400

What, in God's name, has become of the military? WHY is this even a question? You may as well ask "Should a Lt. salute a Captain?"

If they are an Officer, Warranted or otherwise, and they outrank you, damned right you salute them. It is disrespectful to do otherwise. I can't believe that any branch of the military has come to this.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2020 2:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2020 14:50:51 -0400

No, but I have an interesting story about this subject. In 1982 my Warrant Officer ,Chief Heinkey, at 27 Maint. BN, 1st C.D. was approached by a 1st Lieutenant demanding that we stop all work that we were doing and repair his tank for tank gunnery in which chief explained that we are tasked with the maintenance of a new tank under development, The XM1 Abrahams Tank. So he ordered Chief to come to attention so he could explain the importance of his vehicle. this was done in full view of all personnel in our shop. so Chief arose from his desk and came to attention; after listening to the Lieutenant he ordered all work on the XM1 and for all personnel to repair his M-60A3 Tank. Then Chief picked up his brief case and put our NCOIC in charge and left the area. After being gone for about four hours he came back from Bragade and ordered all personnel into his office and told us to wait. A few moments later the Lieutenant came back and gave Chief an apology for disrespect and we never say that Lieutenant again. Chief submitted his retirement paperwork shortly afterwards. A Warrant Officer is a Commissioned Officer and deserves respect and should not salute Lieutenants but salute O-3 and above.

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made May 8 at 2020 3:50 PM

LTC Ronald Stephens — Fri, 08 May 2020 15:50:41 -0400

Go with what's customary.

Response by COL Robert James made May 9 at 2020 8:34 AM

COL Robert James — Sat, 09 May 2020 08:34:41 -0400

When I graduated from OCS, I expected salutes from at least wobbly one. In Aviation, I found senior warrants deserved salutes and very few Lts but I found my warrants were respected and there were mostly hand shakes than salutes. Of course you hear “can’t salute on ramp. Retired O-6

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made May 9 at 2020 11:11 PM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Sat, 09 May 2020 23:11:44 -0400

As a prior army enlisted and retired Naval officer, I've had a couple of instances where a chief or qualifed enlisted told me I didn't rate a salute because (insert bogus reason). In every instance I brought them to attention and chewed their butt for having the opinion that I hadn't earned my rank. There is NO valid reason for failing to salute an officer of senior rank. As the senior officer you must never allow this to happen just as when you are the junior rank you must never fail to initiate the salute exchange. It is a court martial offense and I'd rack you up in a minute if you refused to salute. Just my never to be humble opinion.

Response by SGM Aj Johnson made May 10 at 2020 8:32 PM

SGM Aj Johnson — Sun, 10 May 2020 20:32:34 -0400

Why would Warrant not salute a 2nd Lieutenant? That has been our custom and courtesy tradition for years. I've had the honor of giving many a brand spanking new 20 years younger than me 2nd Lieutenant there first salute. This is simply what we do in the military.

Response by SPC Brian Parker made May 11 at 2020 3:56 PM

SPC Brian Parker — Mon, 11 May 2020 15:56:57 -0400

Honestly we have a warrant officer he was super laid-back and honestly I don't even remember saluting in so I'm not even sure Warren officers of always been a mystery when you can find them haha always was there coffee in their hand

Response by SPC Brian Parker made May 11 at 2020 3:59 PM

SPC Brian Parker — Mon, 11 May 2020 15:59:02 -0400

Just added bonus it was one time we was playing rummy I think and it got to where I mean it was just really boring like 30 guys were watching me the Warren officer and other guy playing and he I guess Counting Cars or whatever just had really good to deduction and you could read everything in the other person's hand and he had his hand and he knew all my cards except for one ace and using that Ace I ended up winning the pot it was a pretty good memory you know everybody playing cards and having a group to watch a that one card you didn't get was the one that won the game that was a nice memory and a forest of bad ones

Response by TSgt Robert A Nichols made May 26 at 2020 3:25 AM

TSgt Robert A Nichols — Tue, 26 May 2020 03:25:01 -0400

Yes a Lieutenant is a higher rank that a Warrant Officer.

Response by Bill Hunt made May 27 at 2020 8:52 PM

Bill Hunt — Wed, 27 May 2020 20:52:15 -0400

Why would they. What is the misconception that warrant officers are not officers? They are and they should receive all benefits and courtesy of any and all other officers

Response by CW3 Dorbin Abendano made Jun 6 at 2020 4:15 AM

CW3 Dorbin Abendano — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 04:15:47 -0400

Research and find out what the regulations stipulate? I am sure you will find any Officers O-1 to O-9 is over Warrant Officers therefore must be given the proper hand salute when in uniform irrespective of what position he or she are in.

Response by SSG S. Wilkerson made Jun 18 at 2020 3:31 PM

SSG S. Wilkerson — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 15:31:06 -0400

Remember, an E3 has been promoted more times than an O1 but must still render the proper courtesies. This is nothing different.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jun 25 at 2020 1:04 PM

CPT William Jones — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 13:04:54 -0400

Welll somebody is just trying to stir things up. It is the way military people say howdy to each other. and to simplify things the junior person initiates the greeting and the senior returns it. So if the person approaching outranks you initiate the salute if you are senior get ready to return the greeting and you should look sharp either way. In case you don't remember from junior going up. All enlisted ext in seniority all Warrants and top of the heap all officers

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Jun 29 at 2020 9:24 PM

SGT Greg Gold — Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:24:06 -0400

Why is this a question?

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Jul 20 at 2020 7:54 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:54:31 -0400

By regs yes!

Response by Sgt Francis Santa-Teresa made Jul 27 at 2020 5:13 AM

Sgt Francis Santa-Teresa — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 05:13:50 -0400

Well of course. Being prior-service AF, I never really saw any warrant officers while I was stationed at Edwards AFB CA. My only brief exposure was when I was training at Ft Belvoir VA.

Response by SSG Charlie Davis made Jul 27 at 2020 11:12 PM

SSG Charlie Davis — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:12:47 -0400

Back in 1963 - 66, I was a member of the Kaneohe Marnie Corps Rifle and Pistol Club. The president was the was KMCAS (Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii) PMO , Captain Ray Ryan - he was a mustanger (WWII - Pacific and Korea). The H&HS Company, Rifle Range Facility OIC was a CWO-3 mustanger (Saipan, Iwo Jima, Okinawa and Korea). Captain Ryan always - always - initiated the first salute of the day to Gunner Jeffries on the range both in and out of uniform on Rec-Fire week-ends or high-power and/or pistol match events at K-Bay or Puuloa. It was a genuine respect for the individual holding the CWO rank. Being young and impressionable I never forgot that. Unfortunately, it was a mutual respect shared between the two and not subscribed to by other officers on the range above the rank of Lieutenant.

Response by SSG David Angell made Sep 20 at 2020 10:23 PM

SSG David Angell — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 22:23:58 -0400

One bar rule...So your saying that a Major doesn't salute a Lt. Col. Or a one star general salutes a two star...etc?
I guess being an enlisted man, I didn't have to worry about that.

Response by Cpl Timothy Wagner made Oct 17 at 2020 11:40 AM

Cpl Timothy Wagner — Sat, 17 Oct 2020 11:40:28 -0400

However. This should not apply when their are stars in the area. Seen that before. A 1 bar getting undressed by a colonel because he a butter bar didn’t salute a 1st LT in the generals company.

Response by CPT William Jones made Dec 15 at 2020 6:53 PM

CPT William Jones — Tue, 15 Dec 2020 18:53:33 -0500

A proper salute has been talked about at length and a description of what is should look like given. When lo and behold the picture t the top of the Marine shows both ways. The Marine on the left is rendering an almost perfect salute. The one on the right has his elbow pointed downward. The major key for a correct salute is the upper arm is 90 degrees angle and parallel to the deck. If that isnt happening the salute is incorrect be it being done by the freshest recruit. Oldest Gunny in the Corps or the Commander of the Relief at the tomb of the Unknowns. ( his elbow pointed downward and arm is not parallel with the deck)

Response by CWO5 Ray Lee made Dec 19 at 2020 9:28 PM

CWO5 Ray Lee — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 21:28:45 -0500

Yes.

Response by Maj Don Harmon made Dec 31 at 2020 11:33 AM

Maj Don Harmon — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 11:33:46 -0500

Of course. Simple. Military custom, tradition and well-established practice require that all ranks and grades salute officers of higher rank.

Response by Maj James Tippins made Dec 31 at 2020 2:26 PM

Maj James Tippins — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 14:26:44 -0500

Gosh, just saw this again. What does the DoD think about rank?

"Military rank is more than just who salutes whom. Military rank is a badge of leadership. Responsibility for personnel, equipment and mission grows with each advancement.
Do not confuse rank with paygrades, such as E-1, W-2 and O-5. Paygrades are administrative classifications used primarily to standardize compensation across the military services. The "E" in E-1 stands for "enlisted" while the "1" indicates the paygrade for that position. The other pay categories are "W" for warrant officers and "O" for commissioned officers. Some enlisted paygrades have two ranks.

And about Warrant Officers?
"Warrant officers hold warrants from their service secretary and are specialists and experts in certain military technologies or capabilities. The lowest-ranking warrant officers serve under a warrant, but they receive commissions from the president upon promotion to chief warrant officer 2. These commissioned warrant officers are direct representatives of the president of the United States. They derive their authority from the same source as commissioned officers but remain specialists, in contrast to commissioned officers, who are generalists. There are no warrant officers in the Air Force."

And Commissioned Officers?
"The commissioned ranks are the highest in the military. These officers hold presidential commissions and are confirmed at their ranks by the Senate. Army, Air Force and Marine Corps officers are called company grade officers in the paygrades of O-1 to O-3, field grade officers in paygrades O-4 to O-6 and general officers in paygrades O-7 and higher. The equivalent officer groupings in the Navy are called junior grade, mid-grade and flag."

Like I've said to others elsewhere here, I am a regular commissioned officer, and I completely follow the rank structure of the military. If I saw ANY enlisted or ANY warrant officer NOT saluting even a lowly 2nd lieutenant, I'd dress them down and call their commander.

As to lieutenants to lieutenants, just children playing. If the reason exists to follow an order, the 1st trumps the 2nd. Otherwise, who cares? ;->

Response by MSgt Robert Branscome made Feb 14 at 2021 5:09 PM

MSgt Robert Branscome — Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:09:10 -0500

Dam things change. Before 1979 when I retired it was anyone senior got a salute if he was an officer.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Feb 14 at 2021 5:24 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:24:19 -0500

Just like the 1SG salutes the 2LT Plt Ldrs.
But God have pity on them if they don't return it, because I won't.

Response by SSG Greg Miech made Feb 14 at 2021 11:16 PM

SSG Greg Miech — Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:16:44 -0500

Yes

Response by Sgt Steven Baldwin made Feb 20 at 2021 2:27 PM

Sgt Steven Baldwin — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 14:27:31 -0500

Maybe I've been retired to long, maybe I'm just old, but some of these "millennial's" questions seem to clearly explain what has gone wrong in this country! Saluting, it's what we do! Traditions, it's what we do! Last I checked we still have an all volunteer policy, right? DON'T &$#/ing enlist if you can't follow orders! Go try something else to fit your snowflake lifestyle and leave fighting and protecting our great nation to the men and women who understand UNCLE SAM is not their real, rich uncle! WTF

Response by SSG James Peterson made Feb 24 at 2021 12:29 AM

SSG James Peterson — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 00:29:58 -0500

When I was active duty warrant officer saluted commissioned officers

Response by 1SG Alexis Ruiz made Feb 24 at 2021 12:29 PM

1SG Alexis Ruiz — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:29:09 -0500

WHAT!?

Response by TSgt Pamela Hoelscher made Feb 24 at 2021 2:51 PM

TSgt Pamela Hoelscher — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 14:51:12 -0500

When I was still in , I saluted Warrant officers because I was enlisted.
I also saw them salute all other ranks.
I was under the impression that respect begets respect, and never saw a Warrant officer EVER not salute everyone.., even those of equal rank.
He has no stick up his ass. Show some respect to your brethren.

Response by SSgt Al Smith made Feb 24 at 2021 5:20 PM

SSgt Al Smith — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:20:41 -0500

One bar rule? Saluting is a professional courtesy and protocols. The Corps, as well as other service branches is governed by these mandates. That's what makes it professional.

Response by SMSgt Ed Turney made Feb 25 at 2021 9:32 AM

SMSgt Ed Turney — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:32:17 -0500

I do not understand what all the turmoil about saluting is. Quite trying to split this non existent hair. You lazy asses get, SALUTE, and by the way forget about who salutes first. Officers, and that includes "Butter Bars" and Warrants, if it is in uniform, salute it. If you get no return, get on their asses, and that includes the E-9's. I highly doubt you will ever find an E-8 or E-9 that does not pop you first. GOT IT?

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2021 10:43 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:43:34 -0500

I find it funny that with all the other problems across all branches of the DoD, this is a topic so many are passionate about. I think the unwritten “one bar rule” builds a certain level of humility and understanding among new officers and warrant officers. If an officer has to use a salute to flex his/her muscles (one bar crowd), that is within their right but the order, but,... I question how they will treat their enlisted personnel. If someone forgets/neglects to salute me,... (call it lazy if you want) I assume they have something more important going on that they are dealing with where the salute is just not on their mind. That is the time to start asking questions other than making it all about me.

Response by COL Lewis Palumbo made Feb 25 at 2021 11:57 AM

COL Lewis Palumbo — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 11:57:44 -0500

We have regulations that define the requirement. Everyone should follow the regulation.

Response by TSgt Gary Garvin made Feb 25 at 2021 12:56 PM

TSgt Gary Garvin — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:56:56 -0500

Response by TSgt Don Purciful TSGT Retired made Feb 25 at 2021 10:25 PM

TSgt Don Purciful TSGT Retired — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:25:58 -0500

Being Air Force and not having that Rank. I think Warrant Officers are silly merely over glorified enlisted now an Officer yes that is an Officer thus they are entitled to be saluted as such. That surprises me that Marines blow off that between the over glorified enlisted and the officer.

Response by SPC Scott Currens made Feb 26 at 2021 12:25 PM

SPC Scott Currens — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 12:25:42 -0500

I think a 2nd Lt should be required to salute a Warrant Officer. I was in the Army and knew several butter bars that thought they knew everything, ( except map reading) LOL

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2021 1:57 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 01:57:07 -0500

According to everything I read on this subject a Lower Ranking Officer is to Salute a Higher Ranking officer. And since My dad not only was an enlisted man but also became a CWO with over 22 years in and that by choice I didn't become an officer. U do what u are supposed to do period. Enlisted Salutes officers, Lower Ranking officers Salute higher Ranking officers period. Not only to pay due respect for their rank but to set a good example to those of lower rank and the enlisted. I do not care what is accepted its about what is supposed to be done. Can their be exceptions made. Yes, ie war time so u are not giving away rank to a sniper or someone glassing the area or getting ready to attack.
The KISS rule should just be enforced then u do not get into pissing contests with those that will demand what is due them and those with the lazy attitudes.

I didn't become an officer for many reasons but one of them was because of a few words in the regs. They CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION UR SCHOOLING. When I went in I had a degree in Forestry but I went into the military as a mechanic. I thought about it this way. I can read a USGS map, plot a course on a map and run the compass properly to get to every point plotted on a map. I survey, read aerial photos, And a lot of other things and I had been a 5 sport state and national level athlete and college athlete. And I felt that they might want me to become an Infantry Officer and I didn't want that.
If Officers do not show the proper respect for rank then enlisted will do the same

Response by MAJ Richard Crisp made Feb 27 at 2021 4:36 PM

MAJ Richard Crisp — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 16:36:03 -0500

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2021 8:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 20:09:13 -0500

Yes....

Response by LCDR Charles Gilroy made Feb 27 at 2021 9:18 PM

LCDR Charles Gilroy — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 21:18:17 -0500

Depends on who’s on deck with you? You got a cool major, he’s not gonna flip out, maybe one salute a day! You got Col Frank Burns you might salute according to Regs all the time! As with everything see what’s allowed and go with the flow!

Response by CSM William Payne made Feb 28 at 2021 2:31 PM

CSM William Payne — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 14:31:43 -0500

I was a CSM for 17 years. Never had a problem saluting Warrants and junior officers. It’s respect for the rank and setting the correct example for those enlisted I was duty bound to educate on the subject of Military Customs & Courtesies. As mentioned by others, this should be a simple recognition and presenting the correct greeting for the time of day. When running or riding my bike, I wave at passing runners and bike riders. I also wave a drivers of vehicles that go about of their way to give my safe passage when I’m doing either of above on a public road. Saluting a person of superior rank is no different and shouldn’t be regarded as a “chore”. Thank you for your service.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2021 3:44 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 15:44:08 -0500

GySgt has got it right. Frankly, never occurred to me so the 1 Bar rule seems innate.

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Feb 28 at 2021 10:50 PM

PO1 David M Burns — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:50:15 -0500

it is a Marine Thing! they can do whatever they want to.

Response by SP5 Gene Hutchins made Mar 1 at 2021 2:40 AM

SP5 Gene Hutchins — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 02:40:30 -0500

Now that (the USMC) is a very logical way to handle that.
The Army, it was 50 yes ago, A lieutenant and CWO1 and CWO2
didn't salute each other. CWO3, and Captains were the same. They were same pay grade. CWO4 was equal to a !adorable in pau
I understand that the Army has a CWO5ramk. Its pay is equal to a
Lieutenant Colonel. My guess is they show the same mm e deference.
Now, everyone but the Battalion Commander and BnXO, saluted the Sergeant Major

Response by Pvt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2021 6:35 AM

Pvt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 06:35:34 -0500

Here's' how I learned it W-1 salute 0-2 & Up ; W-2 salute 0-3 & up ; W-3 salute 0-4 up ; W-4 Gunners' salute 0-7s' & up :
SF

Response by PFC Darrel Little made Mar 1 at 2021 8:33 AM

PFC Darrel Little — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 08:33:38 -0500

No.

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made Mar 1 at 2021 12:30 PM

SSG Robert Velasco — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 12:30:18 -0500

Would you chance a 2 Lt. Giving you a majorly reaming because you didn't salute a W/O exiting an officers club? Do W/Os dine with enlisted or officers?

Response by COL Randall C. made Mar 1 at 2021 1:39 PM

COL Randall C. — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 13:39:24 -0500

*sigh* ... I know this is an old thread, but for some reason it popped up in the RallyPoint summary today ... After seeing all the different variations on these most enlightened 'salute' questions, I almost want to start a thread with the following as possible subject areas...
"If a tree falls in the woods, does it make any sound?"
"If you don't feel like working today, can tell your boss that you don't feel like it? What if you REALLY don't feel like working today?"
"If people ask inane questions, should the be allowed on the internet?"

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 1 at 2021 5:19 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 17:19:42 -0500

I can't say what the USMC does, but being an Army Guard WO, I took it upon myself to ensure I saluted LT's. Why, I never wanted to see a soldier under me use the "Chief doesn't do it, why should I?" excuse. I had to set the tone for my section, and I never wanted to be used as the example for the wrong reason. Some day, that 2LT may be my commander, and I would prefer I had a positive influence on both the LT and the soldiers around me. I looked at Sr. Chief's the same way if I didn't know them. Most would look at you like I just got off a special needs bus, but you may get that one who is having a bad day.

Response by PVT Rocky Susshine made Mar 3 at 2021 4:21 PM

PVT Rocky Susshine — Wed, 03 Mar 2021 16:21:31 -0500

How much pain and discomfort must a senior veteran tolerate before using pain medication? When pain medicine helps to cope with daily activities.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2021 8:28 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 08:28:59 -0500

I really thought the SecDefs guidance was to enhance readiness, both personnel and equipment and family’s. Obviously these new officers have too much time on their hands to dedicate to a forum worried about who salutes who. Really officers if this is the best you can do you need to tell your commander your not ready to serve and your current grade and should be immediately demoted.

Response by 1LT Susan Bailey made Mar 4 at 2021 10:02 AM

1LT Susan Bailey — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 10:02:52 -0500

I guess I don’t understand the point of these questions. Why are we asking them? There is a very clear chart of rankings. Anything below my rank salutes my rank. Anything above my rank I salute them. Why is this such a tough concept for people?

Rank is rank. We are all taught to respect rank. We are encouraged to work hard and prove our worth for promotions. Saluting is simply recognition of that rank. I’m sure all of us at one point or another have disliked the person wearing that rank, but still we salute them if they outrank us because that is what is required of us as a military member.

No one living today established this tradition/expectation/courtesy. We all just follow it. It is a respectful way to be.

If you attach to it more than what it is, that is a personal failure, IMO. You don’t have to like the LT, LTG, or the CW4 or the SFC. But saluting is nothing more than recognition of rank and respecting your place in it. It is what it is and I just don’t understand why there are so many debates about this across this forum!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2021 11:19 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 11:19:00 -0500

My dad was a CW3 and says he never saluted anyone below an O4

Response by CW4 Robert Seamster made Mar 4 at 2021 12:28 PM

CW4 Robert Seamster — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 12:28:41 -0500

Retired Army CW4 here. I hardly ever saluted LTs. Never meant disrespect but was a point of a professional understanding that we didn’t need to do that amongst JOs that were busy trying to put out other fires. We all got plenty of salutes during the day that we didn’t feel the need to have to do it to each other. That said, is it a requirement? Absolutely it is. Customs and Courtesies regs for both Army and USMC require all Members to salute an officer of senior rank to themselves. Technically, a CWO2/CW2 should salute a CWO3/CW3, etc. Did we do it when I was on active duty? Almost never. There are rules. There are traditions. Things evolve with the times. Pick your battles. It was just something I never pushed.

Response by CW3 Richard Schneider made Mar 4 at 2021 1:26 PM

CW3 Richard Schneider — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 13:26:49 -0500

Of course we should greet one another in the proper manner.

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Mar 4 at 2021 5:32 PM

LTC Stephan Porter — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0500

One of our oldest traditions...

Professionalism and regulation state what you are do do.

Just do it!

Response by CW5 Ivan Murdock made Mar 5 at 2021 8:37 AM

CW5 Ivan Murdock — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 08:37:49 -0500

Absolutely - not sure what version of tribal lore ever started this as a conversation. As a matter of fact, I spent a lot of time walking around Ft. Rucker, doing do just that. It was funny in the student role the Lt's often would be running and I would remind them as I presented the exchange for them to stop running and return the salute. There would be no exception that makes sense.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 5 at 2021 12:42 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 12:42:13 -0500

Really, then should a Command Sergeant Major salute LT’s. Of course he or she should. Really.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 5 at 2021 12:43 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 12:43:03 -0500

Really, should a CSM salute a LT, of course he should. Really.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Mar 5 at 2021 1:27 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 13:27:48 -0500

I feel than ANY rank, Officer or Warrant Officer should salute anyone of higher rank After all, it is a greeting and a sign of respect and it's certainly not a difficult or burdensome effort. It's RESPECT.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Mar 5 at 2021 6:56 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 18:56:11 -0500

We have two situations, here. One is the ideal and theoretical. Another is a more of a practical and socially acceptable nature.

Ideally and theoretically, the answer is an unqualified "Yes." Even a one rank difference means somebody initiates a salute, and somebody else returns it. In fact, even people of the same rank should salute each others (if both are Warrants or Commissioned). Point of fact, I have a brother who is a retired O6. I am also an O6 through State service (State Guard). I will salute him, and I will thank my lucky stars that I have the privilege of doing so. He returns the salute. If this is true, then all NCO's (and Jr EM) salute all Warrants and Officers, and all Warrants salute all officers. Period.

Now, let's talk about the practical and socially acceptable. Yes, I have heard of the "LT rule" and have seen that all LT's give each other a break in saluting. There are many installations where that is the norm; mostly R&D facilities, however. It would seem to be socially acceptable; but, one must be cautious. Many NCO's will still insist on initiating a salute, even for a 2LT (bless their hearts). And, I would not like to be any LT who does not salute another LT (of a higher rank), or not return when saluted, if there was any FGO (or, worse, an O6) who observes it. That would not be a good day to be an LT.

The bottom line is this: Who do you want to be? Do you want to be the person who "let's it slide"? Or, do you want to be the sharp EM, NCO, Warrant, or LT who knows what to do, how to do it, and when to do it, all the time, any time, and every time? Bottom line, how professional do you want to look?

Me, I have never regretted having the privilege of saluting, and/or returning a salute. We get to do it. Civilians don't.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Mar 6 at 2021 3:47 PM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Sat, 06 Mar 2021 15:47:15 -0500

New to me (Army enlisted), thanks.

Response by SFC Charles Knight made Mar 23 at 2021 8:31 AM

SFC Charles Knight — Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:31:17 -0400

If the Officer out ranks you, you initiate the salute. Period.

Response by SCPO Kenneth Myers made Mar 28 at 2021 2:23 PM

SCPO Kenneth Myers — Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:23:34 -0400

Yes, they're of inferior rank, while in practice it's hit or miss, but by the rules and regulations, they're required too.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2021 4:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:24:27 -0400

That doesn't sound like the status quo amongst officers but a gentlemans agreement among Warrant and Jr officers that work very closely together so they have a few less salutes to do throughout the day. CO1 to about O3 are in the middle of the rank structure. They are going to have to salute or return a salute to nearly anyone they come across and they don't have the luxury of taking the long way around to stay out of the spotlight like Jr enlisted or Jr NCO neither do they have the luxury of being in their Office most of the day like Senior Officers or Senior NCO. I could see them coming to an agreement to ease the formalities of a salute especially when they are going to be passing 3achnother multiple times a day. However, there is no such exception in military customs and courtesy so that isn't a likely practice among officers that aren't familiar with each other. Though it might be more common among officers to have this arrangement, it isn't uncommon for officers and NCO and even Jr enlisted to have this arrangement. I had it with a Captain and CW3 as a Specialist and then Sergeant. We would exchange salutes in the morning and that was that unless we were in some formal setting around others. We all worked so closely together there was no point in exchanging salutes 25 times a day.

Response by Col Charles Davis made Mar 28 at 2021 11:38 PM

Col Charles Davis — Sun, 28 Mar 2021 23:38:27 -0400

Absolutely Lieutenants are superior officers -- always have been. Always will be.

Response by SPC James Drury made Mar 29 at 2021 2:08 PM

SPC James Drury — Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:08:57 -0400

I've been out for a long time and might not be up on protocol on this subject. So, in general I think saluting officers, by enlisted men, should be revised. When soldiers are out and about and an officer walks or passes by they should not have to salute. (a nod or a hello may be appropriate.)
Saluting an officer should be limited to occasions when the soldier is being addressed or addressing an officer or during formal gatherings, celebrations or official business.
There is no need to salute each other when passing or during normal everyday routine times, it is annoying and unnecessary for both parties.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2021 6:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:33:49 -0400

It's called PROFESSIONALISM, I've been in the Army for 13 yrs and the first thing i was taught is RESPECTING RANK STUCTURE!! As an NCO SALUTE 1LT's, 2LT's, CW2, CW3 etc. BECAUSE THEY HAVE EARNED AND DESERVE THAT RESPECT. My opinion as a NCO.

Response by SSgt Wilson Ortiz made Apr 3 at 2021 12:17 AM

SSgt Wilson Ortiz — Sat, 03 Apr 2021 00:17:52 -0400

Seniority dictates who salutes who. What is your question??

Response by PO3 Roy Rosalez made Apr 4 at 2021 11:16 AM

PO3 Roy Rosalez — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 11:16:28 -0400

Warrants are the back bone of the officer lower and middle ranks with their Experience which in most cases out weighs most unexperienced butter bars or a 1st LT who are still green under the ears, unless [they] are a known Mustang. In my opinion Warrants should not have to salute 2nd or 1st LT's at all unless they feel they need or want to out of respect.

Response by CW4 Dan Green made Apr 4 at 2021 2:23 PM

CW4 Dan Green — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 14:23:12 -0400

I was a Warrant Officer for 29 years and retired as a CW4(P), (my unit had no CW5 Slots for me to bget promoted into). Warrant Officers in the Army never salute each other on a common basis. However, I have to add one caveat. Commissioned Warrant Officers, i.e. CW2-5, are authorized to be in Command of some Detachments. In that case if there were a Warrant Officer of lesser rank in the same unit Detachment (unlikely since there would normally be only one WO in the Det) then I would go with the lesser ranking WO in the Det saluting the Commanding WO as courtesy to his/her position as Commander of that Det. For a WO of lesser rank outside that Det it would still be a head nod and greeting like in normal WO society. Re Lieutenants...yep.....as a WO I would need to offer the initial salute even if he/she had been a Butter Bar for only five minutes.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2021 7:54 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:54:31 -0400

Should Warrant offices salute an LT? Heck, no. Are we supposed to salute them? Yes. Military courtesy stipulates that warrants officers salute commissioned officers. However, as a general unwritten rule within the army at least the Army Warrants do not salute each other, unless in a formal situation that dictates they salute each other. Generally any warrant officer that requires another warrant officer to salute him has some kind of an identity crisis or is on power trip. I only speak from my experience which may differ from other people's experiences.

Response by SPC Justin Foster made Apr 5 at 2021 5:34 AM

SPC Justin Foster — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 05:34:25 -0400

Let's keep simple shit simple. The answer is: Yes.

Response by SFC Dennis Rodriguez made Apr 6 at 2021 5:24 PM

SFC Dennis Rodriguez — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 17:24:09 -0400

If they have an understanding amongst each other in a particular place, so be it but the regulation is very clear on custom and courtesy in the military.

Response by LT Wild Bill made Apr 18 at 2021 2:28 AM

LT Wild Bill — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:28:43 -0400

when in doubt, whip it out. Everybody is happy that way. Though rank and chain of command has a place, maybe (that's a rhetorical question) we should just have courtesy, manners, respect and let the ego go. Yeah yeah, I know easier said than done. I was medical corp type so we look at the world a little differently. You guys are the real soldiers and heros; said with great respect. The whole world (USA) is increasingly irritating and frustrating....we just need to honor our oath and our people. Respectfully, WB

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made May 2 at 2021 11:43 AM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Sun, 02 May 2021 11:43:49 -0400

Why has this topic arisen again? The regulations put a 2LT above a CW5, therefore, the chief must salute the LT. While a chief has more experience and the LT should never disrespect the Chief the Chief is, by regulation and law , technically the junior officer.

Response by MAJ Ronald Mandell made May 8 at 2021 11:54 AM

MAJ Ronald Mandell — Sat, 08 May 2021 11:54:27 -0400

Well, as an Army Warrant we normally saluted Lts, however it is tradition thst we do not salute other warrants senior to us, however when the Chief Warrant Five rank came about most of us started saluting them, creating a new tradition.

Response by CPT William Jones made May 10 at 2021 3:55 PM

CPT William Jones — Mon, 10 May 2021 15:55:42 -0400

All warrants (w1 thru w5 ) are required by the regs to salute all officers ( 01 thru 0-10). So that answers the question. If local customs say something else you might go with the flow but you are never wrong saluting of higher rank.

Response by SFC Kory Schaubhut made May 14 at 2021 3:45 PM

SFC Kory Schaubhut — Fri, 14 May 2021 15:45:20 -0400

Well, in the army the answer is "yes." It's not super dramatic. Sergeants Major also salute 2LTs. Just the way things work.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made May 16 at 2021 8:29 AM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Sun, 16 May 2021 08:29:41 -0400

I pissed off a lot of sailors when, as a butter bar, I made them salute me. I did it to a warrant officer or two also. The unwritten rule in the Submarine world is that a warfare qualified enlisted never salutes an unqualified officer. That didn't fly with me. When I was enlisted, I ALWAYS saluted those of higher rank. They saluted me and I saluted them. CW5 Michael Scheller, below, tells it best.

Response by CPT William Jones made May 16 at 2021 9:17 AM

CPT William Jones — Sun, 16 May 2021 09:17:35 -0400

An officer is supposed to(by regulation) salue every officer above his rank. Since all warrants are out reanked by all commisioned officers the answer is YES. All O4's salute all O6's also

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2021 1:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 May 2021 13:45:58 -0400

Great question.
Salute everyone and get the mission done. Who cares.

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made May 16 at 2021 3:32 PM

CPO Jack De Merit — Sun, 16 May 2021 15:32:40 -0400

Maybe you should not have been promoted to Warrant Officer. I learned in Boot Camp that you always salute a superior officer and YOU salute first.

Response by SGT Ronald Peter made May 16 at 2021 5:30 PM

SGT Ronald Peter — Sun, 16 May 2021 17:30:34 -0400

When in doubt, SALUTE!!!

Response by SGT Robert Martin made May 16 at 2021 7:09 PM

SGT Robert Martin — Sun, 16 May 2021 19:09:31 -0400

It's a simple yes. I never understood why saluting an officer was considered such a chore. I get that as enlisted part of our job is to complain endlessly. My privates complained to me. I complained to my senior NCOs. They complained to the junior officers, and so on. Truly If saluting someone is the best thing we can come up with then we are failing or our officers are doing such a great job they deserve a salute and any other show of respect we can come up with. To the question being asked, should a warrant officer salute a 2nd Lt? Yes, for the same reason a CSM with 30 years salutes a 2nd Lt with 30 seconds. It's because we are professionals in an organization that requires us to do just that.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2021 7:59 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 May 2021 07:59:53 -0400

If we're asking this question, perhaps it would be better to ask if we should do away with Customs and Courtesies altogether during regular duties?
We could save it for formations and other ceremonial environments and let everyone just get about their business during the duty day.
(Not saying I have any problem with saluting...but I've honestly never seen the benefit of it, either.)

Response by SGT Jeremy Boyd made May 17 at 2021 11:21 AM

SGT Jeremy Boyd — Mon, 17 May 2021 11:21:42 -0400

Nobody should salute lieutenants. Ever. You should kick them in the junk every chance you get.

Response by CWO4 John Erker made May 17 at 2021 12:53 PM

CWO4 John Erker — Mon, 17 May 2021 12:53:16 -0400

Warrant Officers/Chief Warrant Officers are subordinate to any commissioned officer 0-1 and above and they should initiate a salute when passing. That's how it's supposed to be in the US Navy.

Response by Cpl Thomas Washington made May 17 at 2021 7:18 PM

Cpl Thomas Washington — Mon, 17 May 2021 19:18:58 -0400

Give respect and get respected.

Response by LCpl Rich Vail made May 18 at 2021 8:42 PM

LCpl Rich Vail — Tue, 18 May 2021 20:42:50 -0400

After a couple of months...I have to ask is this a serious inquiry or are you trolling. ANY commissioned officer out ranks a warrant holder in the US military. Warrant Officers are a bridge between senior NCO's (high level technicians) and the officer class. Any LT, 1LT Capt who doesn't understand that they are commissioned officers, and therefore, by act of Congress outrank any warrant office, non-commissioned officer and other ranks, doesn't deserve to hold a commission in the US military.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made May 22 at 2021 3:58 PM

SGT Randall Smith — Sat, 22 May 2021 15:58:50 -0400

I was a Army Brat and was taught Army courtesy all my life. When in the Army I saw Warrant OFFICERS as officers and officers were saluted. Usually it was with a "good morning sir, or good afternoon sir. The same as with regular officers. It was a habit hard to break when in Viet Nam. One 2LT locked my heels for not saluting him in Can Tho. My Capt. saw it and reamed him a new one while explaining why we did not salute.

Response by LTC Lockhart Simpson made May 22 at 2021 8:24 PM

LTC Lockhart Simpson — Sat, 22 May 2021 20:24:33 -0400

I remember when I was a 2LT attending Officer Basic Course back in 1981, the Captain in charge of our class advised us that if we were to walk past a CW3 or CW4 and he did not salute, we should let it slide. Some senior warrant officers would not salute a 2LT.

Response by MGySgt Charles Restifo made May 22 at 2021 10:51 PM

MGySgt Charles Restifo — Sat, 22 May 2021 22:51:12 -0400

Ok all things aside, yes definitely all warrent officers should salute any commissioned officer. All things aside it is a sign of respect and forbearance that should and must be passed along to all of those who come after us. All o us are a blank 9f the eye and should strive to instill respect on each and every soldier ait men Marine or salmon that follows us.

Response by SSG Lindsey Anderson made May 23 at 2021 10:48 AM

SSG Lindsey Anderson — Sun, 23 May 2021 10:48:51 -0400

I was active from 68-72, and it was customary for Warrant Officers to salute commissioned officers because a Warrant Officer is a Jr. Grade.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2021 5:09 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 17:09:33 -0400

Well since in the rank structure a Lt out ranks a WO, yes the WO would salute a Lt. As would any other subordinate. How is this a discussion? We're all suppose to be professionals, right? Then be professional.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Jun 6 at 2021 3:55 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 15:55:21 -0400

Yes.
My question is why the hell does anyone have to salute a 2lt?

;)

A 1SG has to salute a 2lt, but God help him if he doesn't return it.

Response by Pvt Patrick Bryan made Jun 16 at 2021 12:49 PM

Pvt Patrick Bryan — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 12:49:56 -0400

All WO's an CWO's should be returned to their enlisted ranks!!! That's just my opinion!!!

Response by Lt Col Robert Van Hee made Jun 16 at 2021 3:07 PM

Lt Col Robert Van Hee — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:07:50 -0400

Sure they salute each other. Surprised thats even a question actually.

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Jun 17 at 2021 6:30 AM

SFC R. Lee Linebarger — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 06:30:21 -0400

Yes.

Response by COL John Power made Jun 18 at 2021 10:50 AM

COL John Power — Fri, 18 Jun 2021 10:50:39 -0400

Perhaps the Marine Corps has another rule. In the Army the answer is YES. Case closed!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2021 5:44 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 17:44:03 -0400

Um of course a salute would be necessary; when in doubt, throw it up. Military folks get so bent out of shape when it comes to saluting... you're both saluting each other, who gives a crap who is saluting first. Keep this in mind... an ROTC cadet out-ranks the Sergeant Major of the Army/Marine Corps... just the way it is.

I think the next discussion topic should be whether or not the military rank structure is outdated... there are tons of high-speed enlisted folks with advanced degrees with tons of operational experience. The idea that a 22 year old kid is more qualified as a leader because he/she attended a Boy Scout camp in college? Makes no sense. It was necessary to have a separation/distinction in the 18th century because "non-educated" meant that you couldn't read, do basic math or understand basic logic... 2021 is a different story.

Response by PO1 Thomas Whitmore made Jun 24 at 2021 9:29 AM

PO1 Thomas Whitmore — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 09:29:10 -0400

It should be the other way around. Typically a Warrant has more years in service. LT is just starting out in most cases. Navy Warrant Officers are former Chief Petty Officers, so they don't Salute LT's.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jun 24 at 2021 5:52 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 17:52:14 -0400

Yes.

The chain of command is the chain of command.

And lieutenants net saluting each other is just plain lazy.

The only time i never rendered a hand salute, individually, was on the flight deck and in the field.

Now maybe this is more of a pain in the ass in the officer community where as in the enlisted world, you never see an officer. I think I have rendered the hand salute like maybe 10 times, outside of basic.

Response by SSG Roland Shelton made Jun 24 at 2021 9:13 PM

SSG Roland Shelton — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 21:13:14 -0400

Lieutenant's outrank warrant officers. Therefore the Warren officer should initiate the salute I really don't see a question here.

Response by SSG Richard Bladl made Jun 25 at 2021 1:37 PM

SSG Richard Bladl — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:37:04 -0400

None subject, leave it alone and get back to work.

Response by SSG Richard Bladl made Jun 25 at 2021 1:46 PM

SSG Richard Bladl — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:46:35 -0400

Salute or not, depends on greeting/meeting the other, do you know the person or not, are you in area with senior commissioned. 50 years ago it was understood a CW4 was equivalent to a 1st LT. Only difference I was told is Warrants are specialists in their field, while 1st and 2nd LT's as were known to be new-b's and in training.

Response by CPO John Moore made Jun 26 at 2021 12:03 PM

CPO John Moore — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:03:17 -0400

Follow the manual who to salute and who not to salute, then you will have no problems.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2021 12:06 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 12:06:25 -0400

BLUF: Yes b/c we are a profession that others look to us not just for leadership but professionalism. In addition, it creates order in the ranks (discipline)....

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Jul 10 at 2021 5:31 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 17:31:47 -0400

Yes a warrant at any level should render a salute to an LT or 2nd LT. Why? Because a 2nd Lt out ranks this special high bred rank.
Back in the day they were refered to as "Mister", amongst other titles senior enlisted would use as a moniker...

Response by PFC Jack Moerman made Jul 10 at 2021 9:19 PM

PFC Jack Moerman — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 21:19:25 -0400

Lol, nobody should salute a butter bar.
Most go to ocs after boot camp after passing a couple of tests. Then they become God.

Response by SSG Sean Kannard made Jul 11 at 2021 1:23 PM

SSG Sean Kannard — Sun, 11 Jul 2021 13:23:52 -0400

Well try that one bar rule with WO 3, 4, 5
see how far that fly's.
jm2c

Response by SSgt Michael Bowen made Jul 12 at 2021 6:54 AM

SSgt Michael Bowen — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 06:54:14 -0400

First under normal circumstances enlisted do not salute each other. But a 2LT does in fact salute a 1LT and so on . It is standard military courtesy as well as regs . And yes A warrant officer does in fact salute even a 2LT first . As he is a Commissioned officer. And the salute should always be returned to the person who initiated the salute by the person saluted .Not to do so is being Disrespectful .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 3:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:33:40 -0400

Stop posting stupid fucking questions like this. Yeah the answer is and always will be YES.

Response by PO2 Michael Slachta made Jul 14 at 2021 3:08 PM

PO2 Michael Slachta — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:08:43 -0400

How does this question even come up. The salute is a greeting between servicemen, it is an acknowledgement of a service choice, a courtesy render from a junior to a senior. It is not a mark of suberservance. What are they teaching today.

Response by MAJ Terry LaFrance made Jul 16 at 2021 2:44 PM

MAJ Terry LaFrance — Fri, 16 Jul 2021 14:44:13 -0400

Warrants should salute but I'd be very reluctant to make an issue of it (speaking strictly about LTs). If it's a higher rank I don't think you would have to make a correction because Warrants know Captains are twitchy, Majors are grumpy and above that you just don't take chances. ;-)

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2021 5:43 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 17:43:07 -0400

YES You DO

Response by CW2 Ricki Gerlach made Jul 30 at 2021 9:37 AM

CW2 Ricki Gerlach — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:37:06 -0400

Simple answer is Yes as a CW2 I salute all 2Lt and 1Lt's

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2021 8:16 PM

CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Aug 2021 20:16:02 -0400

Oh boy. So, at WOBC Quantico we were instructed to salute all officers of greater rank (including newly commissioned LTs). Didn't happen, as fully half of us were CWO2's previously deferred for combat deployment. Wo's, CWOs, and LTs literally salute or return salute more than any rank in the Maine Corps. Given. So really it's a Customs and Courtesy issue. We got a brand new 2Lt to the Company (former enlisted) his first name was Dan, out door ceremony and he got got his salutes and greeting from us after that; no big deal. As for 2ndLt Dan, he made the point of stating to the the Ops Section brief that we would not be not calling him "Lt Dan' . Mistake on his part, you know what happened, but he deployed as a 2ndLt, came back as a 1stLt, and was a little more hardened or seasoned. Bottom line, if you know them, or there are Junior or Senior Marines/ect... around just use discretion. If not, well, Officers are mandated to return an appropriate response. Easy. I've blathered enough. When in doubt, whip it out (salute, that is). Isn't hard, and you won't get NJP for saluting those crazy Navy insignias...

Response by PO2 Gary Riedl made Aug 31 at 2021 1:29 AM

PO2 Gary Riedl — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 01:29:37 -0400

When my ship came in to port, our crew was walking on the pier toward the base, just as another crew was boarding their ship. With the sun in my eyes, I was saluting chiefs and ignoring lieutenants - I have no idea how many CWs I missed. Man that was embarrassing.

Response by TSgt Ken Vandevoort made Sep 20 at 2021 1:22 AM

TSgt Ken Vandevoort — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 01:22:43 -0400

When I enlisted, we were told there were only 4 warrant officers left in the Air Force and I never met any. The only one I ever saluted was my next door neighbor when he was laying in his casket in his Army uniform.

Response by CPT William Jones made Dec 6 at 2021 10:50 PM

CPT William Jones — Mon, 06 Dec 2021 22:50:29 -0500

You salute EVERY officer that outranks you as the regulations demand. Any warrant salutes any commissioned officer. Example aW5 is required by reg to salute the most junior O2 in the army. I have no ideas what the
Marines do

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2022 12:03 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 May 2022 12:03:49 -0400

Two amusing anecdotes and I'll shut up.

I'm a W4 at the Senior Staff Course. Walking from the mess hall, (Yes, the powers that be encouraged us to use the mess for lunch.) two W2s salute me. I give them a smile, a wave and say, "You only have to do that at Fort Rucker." Next morning, the School House Commander, an O6, is in complaining, "A W4 is walking around post telling W2s they don't have to salute!" I almost spit my coffee out!

In 2003 I'm a deployed W3. Due to reason's still unknown to me, our Company Commander, a Captain, is not with the Assault Company. This should in reality put one of our lieutenants in charge. The Aviation Task Force Commander an O5 places a W4 in the company commander's position. When I questioned the LTC, his response was, "You don't want that idiot in charge, do you?" He was specifically referring to the senior 1LT in the unit. I saluted and moved on.

Above the Best!