Should we be concerned about China's increased defense spending?

2015-03-15T21:36:37-04:00

I saw this article at theweek.com and was surprised at the amounts of money being spent on defense by China, other Asian countries, and Russia.

Do you think this is an issue that should concern us? Or are we good to go, meaning we're so far ahead they'll never catch us, and we have nothing to worry about?

Please vote in the survey.

http://theweek.com/articles/543244/asia-stockpiling-war-blame-china

Asia is stockpiling for war. Blame China.

There's a new arms race raging

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 15 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-03-15T21:53:28-04:00

CW5 Scott Montgomery, Our nation's $ spending concern should mandate some "fund matching along with # of boots on the ground. America cannot support these socialist type regimes forever.

We funded Europe and the Balkans after the WW II where we funded everything to include our young men.

Somewhere - sometime someone else needs to step into the voids. If they don't care, why should the United States?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Mar 15 at 2015 11:04 PM

2015-03-15T23:04:47-04:00

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member remember when we were discussing this last year? Those guys were dredging and turning sand bars into seaports real close to Japan. They ARE large enough to accomodate their largest refueling tankers and will soon be large enough t accomodate aircraft carriers. No bueno.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/china-may-build-artificial-island-in-south-china-sea/

China May Build ‘Artificial Island’ in South China Sea

The island would be used as a military base to enforce a South China Sea air-defense identification zone.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 11:26 PM

2015-03-15T23:26:02-04:00

Yes, we should be concerned, but we definitely shouldn't loose sleep over her. She is becoming belligerent, but every rising power has done that. She is making sure the world knows there's a new kid on the block. She also has legitimate concerns about security. China's economy depends on trade, so it's not surprising at all that she's focusing on the sea and securing her access to it. She has a large Moslem population and with the unrest in the Moslem world as well as the fact that she borders both Afghanistan and Pakistan, it would be foolish for her not to take her security seriously. In short, I think we should keep a cautious eye on her, but so far her moves have been of the kind we would expect from a country moving from isolation to a world economy.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 15 at 2015 11:31 PM

2015-03-15T23:31:56-04:00

No... I see China, as the USSR... lots of hype and propaganda... Spend, I say spend, and they too will implode... China and North Korea do a lot of saber rattling.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 2:54 AM

2015-03-16T02:54:53-04:00

China owns the notes on many of our loans...I'd hate to see them call in real estate as payment for outstanding debt.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 2:57 AM

2015-03-16T02:57:08-04:00

If we fail, they fail, and we rake down all of Asia with us. I'm sure they have too many interests in seeing us succeed.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 4:23 AM

2015-03-16T04:23:31-04:00

I had a nice long conversation about this with a couple of my Soldiers on shift the other day.

It doesn't matter right now how much they spend on equipment, it matters how much they spend on training. From what I am seeing most is going to give the perception that they are a growing hegemon. If you don't have the ship captains that know what they are doing in both the littoral and blue water areas with big ships how do you expect to operate effectively with them. This is one of the areas that the Germans got more right earlier than the rest in the Interwar years. They focused on training first, that way when they had(or forced) the build-up of the military budget they had trained crews and highly trained trainers. If you put the equipment before the trained operator you are putting the cart in from of the horse in my opinion. You may be able to train the horse to push it, but it isn't going very far or very fast. Where as you saw what the Germans did at the outset of WWII, the blitzkrieg into Poland was planned, trained, and executed many times over before the right tanks had even come on line. If China was focusing in this direction then I would be worried.
Also, I think the internal strife and regional issues will affect China long before they become a credible threat to the U.S. In the littoral areas of China (read 50miles from the coast) there is much less strife and the government has a reach over society. Once away from this area the internal fissures of society are slowly dividing the population.
With respect to the regional issues, along with the land disputes there are huge issues that will come to a head in the next five years with respect to water rights between India and China. The Himalayas are a great source of water for nearly 1/3 of the worlds population and with both countries growing that has the potential to become the next conflict spark.

Response by Sgt Matthew O'Donnell made Mar 16 at 2015 8:20 AM

2015-03-16T08:20:41-04:00

It's a concern, but considering the fact that the United States spends more than 600 billion a year since 2007. Pretty close to doubling the budget of 2001.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 8:35 AM

2015-03-16T08:35:43-04:00

From a direct conventional military sense, no, not yet at least. While they may be rapidly expanding their inventories it is similar to their GDP (which if you didn't know is calculated entirely on amount of property created rather than how western counties do it. Hence the slew of abandoned apartment complexes throughout China), they go sheer numbers without substance. Case in point take a look at their "carrier" the press freaks out about every few months. They additionally lack the doctrine and training to effectively utilize advanced systems. Coupled with their near inability to domestically and organically conduct research and development (hence why they steal it all) and their still nebulous national identity we have some time.

The real threat from China is from Soft Power. Influence operations, espionage (traditional and economic), economic control and cyber threats present a far more real threat. Do they have some capable systems and platforms? Absolutely, but due to how interwoven they are with our economy a direct, or even perceived conventional attack on us or our allies would be disastrous for their markets. That said, smaller, more innocuous actions can have great and lasting effects and work to line up economic erosion. China plays the long game.

To me China presently seems like a large toddler. They grew too fast, their limbs are lanky and uncoordinated and they are sprinting around the house unsure what to do with the new strength they have and in turn they knock over the coffee table and pet the cat too hard without regard for how or why they are able to do so.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-03-16T10:14:32-04:00

At this time, I think we need to be aware of what they're doing, but I don't think we could afford to actually do anything directly related to this. Besides be spread almost unbearably thin, that part of the world is a careful balance as it is. Right now we don't really want to make China mad because they are a big voice telling N Korea to stop acting like a little child. I am almost afraid that if we make big brother (China) mad, he would be willing to let little brother (N Korea) get away w/ quite a bit more than they do now, up to & including military actions & not just drills.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Mar 16 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-03-16T10:25:15-04:00

We should be more concerned with the national debt. We currently owe China $6 Trillion. If China refused to lend us more money and demanded payment. It was critically wound, if not destroy our financial system and economy.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Mar 16 at 2015 10:40 AM

2015-03-16T10:40:54-04:00

First of all, China steals technology. They do a great job producing it, just not coming up with new technology. We owe China about the same as we do Japan (1.24 Trillion vs. 1.23 Trillion). A lot of people think that 'China owns us', that is actually not the case. China and Japan together makes up the most of our public debt at 20.22% combined. What we should be concerned about is if the rest of the world ever decides to stop using the dollar as the world standard of currency. Regarding China's defense spending, we currently spend more on defense than the next 8 countries combined (China, Russia, Saudi, France,U.K., Germany, Japan and India).

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 11:25 AM

2015-03-16T11:25:53-04:00

I don't believe you can take an appeasement approach with regimes who have a history of human rights violations. The wolves smell blood. A strong leader in the west has always been a deterrent in a Mutually Assured Destruction narrative and I do not believe BO with his appointed academic advisers have the strength to maintain balance.

You can see it all over the world, Russia's incursions in NATO air space. Venezuela is saber rattling as well as China, ISIS, Al-qaida, Boka Haram, Iran and even Mexico making demands of our government.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-03-16T12:33:08-04:00

To piggy back on this CW5 Private RallyPoint Member

SSG James J. Palmer IV, here's #2 on your list...

Russia starts nationwide show of force

By Thomas Grove MOSCOW (Reuters) - More than 45,000 Russian troops as well as war planes and submarines started military exercises across much of the country on Monday in one of the Kremlin's biggest shows of force since its ties with the West plunged to Cold War-lows. President Vladimir Putin called the Navy's Northern Fleet to full combat readiness in exercises in Russia's Arctic North apparently aimed at dwarfing military drills in...

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 16 at 2015 2:08 PM

2015-03-16T14:08:48-04:00

While China has announced that it would raise its defense budget by approximately 10% it is still down from the previous year's 12.2% increase. However the announcement is the fifth consecutive year with a double digit increase in official military spending. But in comparison to the US this would roughly translate to 890 billion yuan , or about $145 billion US. Currently our Defense Departments is requesting $601 billion with some $79 billion going towards Overseas Contingency Operations, or OCO, funding leaving $522 billion between the branches to fight over. China's budget is only 27% of ours. Also there are other political and technological "linkages" to the US that augment the US military footprint. For example name a Chinese military base outside of mainland China? A part of the decision process of foreign defense departments in making purchases such as the F-35 is that ability to integrate with the US military. The ability to easily integrate our allies into our system is a spill over benefit of selling our weapon systems to other countries this is something I don't think China would ever allow as they don't really trust anyone enough. So at this point while they are making great strides to catch up their foreign policy really needs to get reworked to the point where they have a number of Chinese military bases Mexico, Iraq, and Canada. Until that happens I think its a good to keep an eye on them but not a serious threat at this time.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 16 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-03-16T15:17:55-04:00

The issue that needs to be kept in mind is how much of our National Debt that China holds the paper on. If they wanted to take the US over, the first blow would be to call the loans. There is no way we could re-pay them. This would be devastating to our economy, and we might not be able to mount a military defense at that point.

At the same time, China's economy is highly dependent, ironically, on US exports.

The other military concern about China is their move into Africa. If they have huge blocs on two continents, that really strengthens them. Remember playing the game "Risk"?

Response by CPO Bernie Penkin made Mar 16 at 2015 8:49 PM

2015-03-16T20:49:34-04:00

China has always been an experiment in patience. They saw where the Soviet Union failed and took a different direction.

The Chinese are definitely building up their military. The other side is more long term and subtle. Right now American parents are enrolling their kids in Chinese immersion schools that are popping up all over the country. These schools are staffed and funded by Chinese nationals. I am not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but there has to be a long term plan at play.

Africa has a huge supply of minerals and oil. Chinese companies are building roads, schools and hospitals in impovershed countries like Liberia in order to gain access and control. I know this from folks who live there.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 8:12 AM

2015-03-17T08:12:01-04:00

It is prudent to monitor developments, perhaps adjust your posture and troop disposition in response, but Chability to pro. They are trying to get there, but it will take decades before they can really threaten their neighbors with anything besides damaging attacks. More concerning is their growing cyber capabilities and economic clout. They could make plenty of mischeif with both should they decide to make a move.

As it stands, the fledgling "blue water Navy" and improved Air Force are paper tigers that would easily be obliterated in short order in the event of war. They have next to no anti-submarine capability. A single Carrier Battle Group would give them all they could handle (although it would have to be cagey about getting too close to the mainland until it reduced the threat) - we have ten of them.They have plenty of numbers in the PLA, but I don't think anyone envisions a large land battle with China. Neither side would want one.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 8:14 AM

2015-04-15T08:14:55-04:00

There is a lot of contested area in the South China Sea and China still claims Taiwan who we claim as an ally. While I believe that our technology is superior to theirs sheer numbers will win out. Look at the Sherman vs the Tiger in WWII. I don't think they will push an all-out war but presence is critical in these territorial disputes and with us cutting the number of ships and them building at this rate I worry that our maritime dominance that we are accustom to may be drawing to an end in that part of the world. Then after that what do we do when Chinese show up in the Caribbean to settle a dispute with Venezuela to gain a foothold in the oil reserves in the Americas? Add to that the Russians pushing the envelope on our NATO alliances and we have a real world wide credibility problem brewing. Maybe we should return to the Monroe Doctrine only now the “Holy Alliance” would have to include East Asia at the least.

http://www.popsci.com/china-gets-three-warships-one-day

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-04-15T08:21:46-04:00

Just a lot! And if they keep cutting the budget the only thing coming out of our fighters will be rocks and Koolaid.

Response by SPC Patrick Gearardo made Apr 15 at 2015 8:48 AM

2015-04-15T08:48:20-04:00

In the big picture, China COULD be a problem down the road. Right now, there are constant squirmishes between China and the Philippines in the South China sea over fishing and disputed lands.

And China and Russia seem to be messing with Japan.

http://news.yahoo.com/japan-jets-scramble-cold-war-levels-chinese-russian-084627854.html

As America's forces grow smaller, the world's forces seem to be growing bigger.

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Apr 16 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-04-16T15:51:08-04:00

no way. The gov. will tell us if we have anything to worry about, Look at the NSA, IRS, Home land security, the southern border, isis, middle east.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 16 at 2015 3:52 PM

2015-04-16T15:52:40-04:00

They will have to have something to defend Americas with when they collect on the debt we owe them and they take us over!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 16 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-04-16T16:08:13-04:00

China wants resources and they are imposing their outlandish territorial rights in the South China Sea which will prevent Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Korea, from using shipping lanes if enforced. The principal naval weapon for China are the submarines and fast surface ships which they are heavily investing in. The Chinese Imperialism has already started.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made May 13 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-05-13T12:56:54-04:00

It's worth monitoring, but honestly if you compare them to us, it's laughable.