Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?

SSG Gerhard S. — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:25:17 -0400

I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.

I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.

Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)

Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”

Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“

Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.

“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?

“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?

“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.

“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.

“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?

All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.

I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.

In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.

I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jul 19 at 2018 4:27 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:27:29 -0400

My brothers wanted to go to Canada; if they were drafted. They are my brothers: I Love them.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 19 at 2018 4:45 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:45:15 -0400

Thank you for the great comments and excellent share, thank you for your service.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 19 at 2018 4:49 PM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:49:23 -0400

For those who chose not serve and stuck around to face the music. I disagree, but respect.

For those that avoided service, but used the rules to do it. I don't like it, but harbor no ill will. "The rules is the rules."

For those that ran, they made a choice and they should live by their choice. I don't like them standing on American soil, breathing American Air, and enjoying American freedom. I forgive, but do not forget. I don't go looking for a pissing contest, but If they bring up the subject, I'm not going to pussyfoot around it. As far as I am concerned, they are not to be trusted.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 4:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:52:12 -0400

"Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?"

This is really the only part of it that matters. I agree with you, it's legal so there's nothing to be said. ESPECIALLY by anyone who isn't old enough to have had to worry about being drafted. The generation or two or three since the draft ended have become the kings and queens of shortcuts and dodging. They have absolutely NO room to talk about someone who used legal avenues to not be drafted. And given Bill Clinton's draft avoidance, democrats can't say crap about it.

Fun side note, in Dec 1969-Jan 1970, when the USSR was aiding the NVA in their war against the US, Bill Clinton was in Moscow making friends.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 4:53 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:53:14 -0400

I agree with you that I want men and women serving that are joining of their own free will. I do not agree with you that a draft is slavery. I volunteered and knew that I would be going to Vietnam. I never gave any thought to draft dodgers. What bothered me were the scum bags that greeted me at LAX when I returned from Vietnam. They tried to block my way, asked me how many babies had I killed, told me to repent for my sins, etc. I was in uniform flying military standby. One of the hardest things that I have ever done, was not confronting these scum bags.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jul 19 at 2018 5:11 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:11:34 -0400

No. I'm a firm believer that service in the military is a calling of sorts. Just as a priest must be called by God to serve the church, I consider those who choose to serve in the military as something like 'monks' under the Constitution of the United States. That is not to take away from those who answered the call via the draft as well.

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made Jul 19 at 2018 5:26 PM

SFC Mamerto Perez — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:26:46 -0400

Yes especially if you are a Commander in Chief.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 5:29 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:29:54 -0400

I don't judge. I wasn't alive then.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 5:46 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:46:53 -0400

I'm not upset by it.
The draft is indentured servitude. It is immoral and incompatible with a free Society.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 6:04 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 18:04:06 -0400

If you "dodged the draft" by running away to some country like Canada or Mexico, then I have an issue with that. However, if you legally had deferments, medical exclusions, or whatever then there is nothing more to say, you were exempt. People said the same thing about Clinton. Obama never served and you had people saying BS things like, how can he be Commander in Chief because he never served, and so on. Now they are saying the same or similar things about President Trump. It is just a bunch of BS.

Response by Cpl Bill Johnson made Jul 19 at 2018 6:16 PM

Cpl Bill Johnson — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 18:16:39 -0400

Yes, we should have a draft. Yes, people who consciously avoided military service should be ashamed, and shamed. Required military or other national service creates a much larger pool of potential reservists. National service will aid in uniting this country, as old school draftees usually were drawn from the ranks of the poor and the working class, as people with more money had more dodging avenues. Legal otlr not, draft dodging takes a special sort of scumbag... the guy thinks that he is too good to serve his country.

Response by SGT Clifford (Mug) Hall made Jul 19 at 2018 6:17 PM

SGT Clifford (Mug) Hall — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 18:17:09 -0400

As a Viet Nam era enlistee I chose to enlist. I didn't run off to Canada. I am admittedly more upset with folks like Kerry & McCain that embellished their own record, profited from it and have become national embarrassments. Lack of information is the biggest enemy. If the reasons were legitimate I have no problems with deferments.

Response by CW5 John M. made Jul 19 at 2018 7:15 PM

CW5 John M. — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 19:15:10 -0400

I did not want to be drafted because I would have had little choice as to what kind of MOS I would have been assigned, and I wanted to be able to choose my own. I ultimately chose helicopter gunships over "slicks" b/c I would be able to at least "shoot back" at those shooting at me..... The majority of draftees I knew in aviation were conscientious and hard working - who supported the mission. I never had much use for the draft "dogers", but was ok with those who needed "deferments for legitimate reasons.

Response by SPC Andrew Ross made Jul 19 at 2018 7:44 PM

SPC Andrew Ross — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 19:44:00 -0400

If a potential draftee had a medical deferment, it is not as though he had rejected the military; the military had instead rejected him.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jul 19 at 2018 7:53 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 19:53:58 -0400

We are a nation of laws. During the Vietnam ear the same law enforced the draft that granted deferment for various reasons. I don’t blame Pres Clinton or Pres Trump for using legal deferments. Your analogy with the tax laws is excellent. I disagree that draftees were slaves because they were compensated for their service at the same rate of pay as volunteers in the same pay grade. They also could and did avail themselves of the GI bill. I saw several types of people in the AF in the Vietnam era:
-draftees happy to not be in the Army who did their duty and got out as soon as they could with honor
- almost draftees who joined the AF voluntarily to avoid being drafted. Some served with distinction some didn’t. Some were officers and most were enlisted
-draftees and volunteers who hated the AF and regretted their decision. Most found a way to get an early out. Some through criminal activity
-volunteers like me who chose to serve even though we could have avoided the draft. I like to think we paved the way for the all volunteer force

The men who left the US to avoid prosecution or service were breaking US law. They were criminals. I’m glad they were later pardoned so we could put the Vietnam war behind us politically and socially.
I think the DoD is unprepared to absorb the influx of people a draft would generate. In case of a National Emergency on the scale of WWII we may have adequate volunteers. The draft helps ensure adequate volunteers show up.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jul 19 at 2018 8:29 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 20:29:43 -0400

We had a lot of draft dodgers both in the US as well as those who fled to Canada. I was not a fan of the lottery system.

Response by SPC Makissa Lewis made Jul 19 at 2018 8:41 PM

SPC Makissa Lewis — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 20:41:24 -0400

I am not upset at those who dodge and Ditched. They would be liabilities in the battlefield. But, don’t dodge and ditch and criticize someone’s service who didn’t dodge or ditch saying something like “I wouldn’t get caught” or “Anyone can get a Purple Heart”.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Jul 19 at 2018 9:17 PM

SSG James Arlington — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 21:17:10 -0400

The only problem I have with those who did not serve, whether during a daft or not, are those who advocate for military intervention, or exhibit overly (False?) Patriotism...

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 19 at 2018 9:49 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 21:49:43 -0400

SSG Gerhard S. Given the information now available, I would have attempted to put my little brother on a bus for Vancouver, British Columbia rather on the bus to Oakland Army Terminal for his 26 day round trip to Vietnam.

He was KIA as a Newby! Shortly after, the Army in it’s infinite wisdom started an In-Country Indoctrination School for USAEUR Soldiers to understand the incoming rounds were real! You might guess how many Soldiers coming from USAEUR Soldiers were KIA before this indoctrination school commenced.

Wow! That would have really changed his life as he would have been a deserter!

Once the draft dodgers who had gone to Canada, were pardoned, everything and my attitude went to Hell!

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Jul 19 at 2018 10:04 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 22:04:51 -0400

I was a draft dodger myself. I enlisted in the Army when I was seventeen and I did not know I had register for selective service so when I wast in Vietnam I got a nasty letter from my draft board and when I went to my troop commander he told me to commit a physical impossibility he hurt my feelings. I went to Big Mike my first sergeant and he just started laughing!!

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Jul 19 at 2018 10:57 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 22:57:00 -0400

The question know is will you encourage your children the dodge a possible draft in the future. The "dodging" is not so easy now.
I am a volunteer member of my area's Draft Board. The Selective Service has openings around the country. Go to their website to volunteer.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Jul 19 at 2018 11:48 PM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 23:48:28 -0400

Evidently you didn't live at the time of the Vietnam war. I think the draft was the price you had to pay for living in America at that time. I believe in freedom of speech. In Chicago 1968 during the democratic convention, Their were riots in Chicago. Draft age kids were taking the Vietcong flag and carrying it while fighting with the police. In the meantime. their were kids in Vietnam fighting for their country because their country asked them to. Many give their lives. The GI,s got blamed for the war. They were told not to wear their uniforms when they got home. They were spit on and had feces thrown at them. My buddies girl friend ask him if he killed any babies. He never seen her again by his choice. If you were drafted and didn't want to carry a weapon you could be a conscientious Objector. The reason we were fighting in Vietnam was to stop Asia from becoming communist. People didn't understand that. The cold war was in full force at that time. The Russians had their fingers in everything. The war was fought politically from Washington not militarily like it should have been. That's one reason it was so unpopular and lasted so long.
I wonder if we had to go to the draft today to protect the United states, how popular it would be? I served in the Marine corp from 59-63 and the Army from 63-66. I am a Vietnam Veteran. Today when somebody walks up to me and thanks me for my service, I take it with a grain of salt. I know some people are sincere while others do it because it is politically correct. Semper Fi.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Jul 20 at 2018 4:38 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 04:38:55 -0400

"Military conscription in time of national emergency (war)". A sound policy, to have the ability to fill the ranks with able bodied men and women to defend the nation. I have a reasonable attitude towards the bona fide conscientious objector, someone that has proven belief, but is still willing to serve in a capacity that adds to the overall effort. But for the ones, and I believe this applied to many not the few, that simply thought, war sucks and I don't want to get shot, should be held accountable for their actions.
The rights and freedoms enjoyed and guaranteed come with responsibilities, number one of which is, if you want them, you have to be prepared to defend them, or as sure as God made little green apples, someone will take them away. It's not someone else's job, it's everyone's job.

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Jul 20 at 2018 8:20 AM

LTC Eugene Chu — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 08:20:37 -0400

Along with controversy about Vietnam War, another issue with draft was unfairness of those conscripted. I am pasting a URL below about Project 100,000. In order to meet personnel needs and promote LBJ's "War on Poverty", poor unqualified people got drafted. Some conscripts had criminal convictions, mental retardation (Forrest Gump), weight issues (PVT Pyle from Full Metal Jacket), weak English knowledge or other issues that were liabilities to their unit in combat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000

Project 100 - Wikipedia

Response by GySgt Michael Harris made Jul 20 at 2018 8:56 AM

GySgt Michael Harris — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 08:56:39 -0400

I don't have all the FACTS about POTUS concerning his past, which seems not to matter theses days to most people that want to just be mad for whatever reason. We can't all move forward as America if some wants to dwell in the past. I look at what POTUS has done for the Military to include the Vets since he has been in office, that is what we all should measure POTUS on. It is so easy to focus on the negatives and not the positives, which we see very little of in the media and form our elected officials.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2018 9:10 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 09:10:26 -0400

I agree with you. If there are legal ways to avoid the draft then that's that. My father wasn't eligible for the draft because he was in seminary. When he graduated, he served as a pastor for 40 years. It is what it is.

I've heard others complain that people in power who had sons drafted (or volunteer) made sure they didn't see combat. As a service member I get it but I think it really just comes down to jealousy. I mean, if I had the power to ensure one of my sons didn't die fighting a controversial war would I use it? Maybe so.

I also agree that if America were being invaded there would be no shortage of volunteers. And those that couldn't enlist would form militias and we'd see the benefit of the 300 million privately owned guns. And you make an excellent point that if the government is having to draft people to go fight a war somewhere then maybe it's a war that we should avoid.

Response by LTC Forrest Brandt made Jul 20 at 2018 11:07 AM

LTC Forrest Brandt — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 11:07:07 -0400

My attitude toward draft dodgers changed while I was in my first two years of service. While at Ft. Lewis, I shared a house with another lieutenant whose assignment was "Special Training Company," a group of enlistees from "McNamara's hundred thousand." He had kids in his company who cried at night, some who were bedwetters, kids who had never learned how to run (that's right!) and guys who looked for ways to tease, torment and beat the hell out of guys who cried, or wet their beds, or couldn't run.

I was the XO for a light truck company at the time and had to counsel one soldier that couldn't understand why his car was being repossessed just because he didn't have the money to pay for it right then.

All of these soldiers were in the army because LBJ and McNamara conspired to lower the AFQT score by 15 points to allow men who would ordinarily have been unfit for service, eligible. This created a pool of 100K men to draw from each year and meant that the policy of college deferments could be continued.

A year later I was in Vietnam with the First Infantry Division and saw what exemptions and influence did. I quickly realized that every time a college student took a deferment or a well-connected son was suddenly a CO, someone from the inner city or rural America was brought in to fill the gap.

Back in the states, I was assigned to the S/3 shop of a Transportation Brigade of the 83rd ARCOM. We had doctors, lawyers, PHDs and PHD candidates, Salesmen, and bankers in Sp/4 slots. Not only that but Congress had authorized us to be at 150% fill of our TO&E! This after I had been in the field with infantry companies at 75 to 60% of their authorized strength. So, what deferments and exemptions couldn't do to allow some to avoid Vietnam, the National Guard and Reserves expanded.

I realize that some who avoided serving did so out of a deep conviction that Vietnam was an ill-conceived war and some did have religious convictions against any war. But most of those I knew who avoided war service would have said, as Dick Chaney did, "I've got better things to do than go to Vietnam." I struggle to forgive that.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Jul 20 at 2018 11:42 AM

MSgt George Cater — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 11:42:23 -0400

In the big scheme of things, it’s much like taking legal tax deductions. The prior draft had so many questionable deferments that it was a mockery of everyone serving (even by compulsive service). Everyone serve, no deferments, everyone in some capacity OR all volunteers. It was the government’s fault for the fouled up mess.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jul 20 at 2018 11:49 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 11:49:58 -0400

While I agree that conscription is a form of indentured servitude. That being said, there is still a need to keep the system in place in case there's a massive conflict that can't be resolved with an all volunteer force. Wars have a tendency towards becoming huge and these wars can be an existential threat to a country.
To the question of whether or not I harbor any animosity towards a "draft dodger", it depends on the circumstances. If they fled to another country, I would think that it should forfeit citizenship. If they stayed here and dealt with the consequences of their actions, I wouldn't be angry. Some people have a legitimate moral objection to warfare. That's understandable. Perhaps they just don't want to die. Also a position I understand, granted there should be consequences for these actions. Possibly a restriction from ever being authorized to get a government job on federal, state or local levels, as they've demonstrated that they won't fulfill an oath to support and defend the constitution. As for those that come up with medical excuses, I don't think that we can prove that they lied to get out of it. I find it despicable to fake a medical issue to avoid both consequences or combat, but how do you determine the truth?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 20 at 2018 11:57 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 11:57:42 -0400

Ouch- I do not agree that the Draft was slavery, but I will agree that those who did not serve due to medical/educational deferments are not "draft dodgers" and I am not happy with those who fled the country to avoid it. I was subject to the Draft (number 323) and I had an educational deferment (ROTC). so my chances were slim to none to be drafted. The draft has been around since the beginning of the Civil War (Hell one of my great's enlisted for the bounty offered by someone with money to take his place) and it was unpopular then. So that makes your Patriotism assertion invalid. I was happy when the draft ended, because you get a mixed bag of people- way to often it was the under educated, poverty stricken who could not get deferments and trouble makers who were determined to get thrown out. The poor less educated provided great soldiers cause they wanted to better themselves, the trouble makers were just that. Originally the draft was suppose to an equality maker, but as always those with the cash could find/use the loopholes .

Response by SGT David T. made Jul 20 at 2018 1:18 PM

SGT David T. — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 13:18:18 -0400

I actually agree with you on every point. I would even go so far as to include stop loss in this.

Response by SPC Herb Jorgensen made Jul 20 at 2018 2:25 PM

SPC Herb Jorgensen — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 14:25:11 -0400

Today a draft would be unthinkable but a command required service would also but if the US in current state would develop a real sense of unity as a whole.A system of a Civil Defense Ready Deployment Corp for domestic service could do more.Example,once basic is completed the individual would have the option of military service or CDRC .The CDRC would not be allowed off US soil or ir it's territories,their mission would be to support and supply disaster areas ,civil strife,this would allow the National Guard (by states) to support the security roll as the CDRC sets forth the logistics ,supply, of personnel such as engineers,medical,fire fighters,and other rolls during disasters,such as fires,hurricanes,floods,etc.Now not all would be able to conform or perform,however it would give a service attribute.

Response by Sgt Jesus Rodriguez made Jul 20 at 2018 2:55 PM

Sgt Jesus Rodriguez — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 14:55:05 -0400

One can understand that if the rules are there then they should be used when necessary and during reasonable times. However, it takes a special kind of douchebag to coward out when your fellow Americans need you the most. I do believe President Trump is a coward and a con. His behavior during the Helsinki press conference shows nothing less than a coward standing next to someone who could kick his sorry ass. Fox News heavenly criticized Obama but now they are declaring Trump as presidential... Why the loyalty to party first instead of country?

Response by 1LT Vance Titus made Jul 20 at 2018 4:40 PM

1LT Vance Titus — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 16:40:32 -0400

No.

Draft age young men in that era made their own decisions and have had to live with their decision ever since.

I voluntarily joined the Army and volunteered to serve in Vietnam. Proudly, I would make the same decision today. I have no idea if those who fled to Canada or purposely avoided the draft can say the same.

Response by MAJ Joseph Horning made Jul 20 at 2018 7:37 PM

MAJ Joseph Horning — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 19:37:46 -0400

I disagree with the author's arguments. I was drafted and served after my educational deferments ended upon graduation in 1968.

Response by 1LT B. Long made Jul 21 at 2018 2:28 AM

1LT B. Long — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 02:28:42 -0400

This was a hard personal moral issue that every draft age male struggled with during the Vietnam War. To obey the law and fight and possibly die in an unpopular war on a foreign soil or resist and dodge the draft. I can understand why some men dodged the draft. I can respect their convictions, but only those who had the courage to face the music and accept the legal consequences. Those who fled out of the country like to Canada were cowards. But when the draft dodgers were eventually pardoned, it took the wind out of the sail. If our government will no longer hold these individuals accountable, then how can we remain upset with them? Personally I had a low draft number of 47 and I knew I would be drafted. I dodged the draft by enlisting in the Army. I am proud to have served my country.

Response by PO2 Albert Milburn made Jul 21 at 2018 9:39 AM

PO2 Albert Milburn — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 09:39:32 -0400

When I turned 18 I had to register for the draft and was called up November 1953. Served my 2 years honorable. Joined the Air National Guard until 1958 when I went active duty in Naval Aviation until I finished my tour and honorably discharged in 1967. My point here is my military training helped me to “grow up” and go to college and become a responsible husband and father. I recommend military service for everyone.

Response by Jeffrey Skibenes made Jul 21 at 2018 10:34 AM

Jeffrey Skibenes — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 10:34:51 -0400

I agree with everything you laid out above. However, one thing history has shown this country is that we continue to encounter unexpected circumstances. Comparing the level of volunteers over the years, I feel, is inaccurate since, as a society we continue to change in thoughts, priorities and personal loyalties. There should always be a draft registration in my opinion. However, only under the most egregious of circumstances under which the country finds itself threatened directly should we ever again actually utilize the draft. Clearly, conscripts, generally speaking are unlikely to be of the personal caliber found in volunteers. I continue to pray that this threat never materializes and that the draft remains unused throughout the future.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2018 2:54 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 14:54:41 -0400

I don't hold it against anyone for "dodging" the draft unless they're a chicken hawk.

Response by SPC Andrew Ross made Jul 21 at 2018 4:12 PM

SPC Andrew Ross — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 16:12:19 -0400

Thinking about this question whether "we" should be upset about draft dodgers, is seems to boil down to... who is "we"?

Those who entered the all-volunteer Army really don't have any skin in the game in this question's context. Consequently, their perspectives are secondary.

Most Vietnam Vets have made peace with the past regarding this matter, but for those who may still harbor ill feelings, they have paid their dues in spades.

Let them have their say. Maybe it will serve to help work the bugs out. The Vietnam Vet paid the price regarding the draft dodger; not the rest of you.

As for the snowflakes, Democrats and Trump-haters, if you didn't serve in an era in which the draft was in effect, you have no standing to call the president a draft-dodger.
Trump had a medical deferment, meaning the military rejected him.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jul 21 at 2018 6:48 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 18:48:20 -0400

This is a no-win situation. I look at those who protested the war and lost everything (Ali as a prime example), and look at others who conviently didn’t go for whatever reason yet they became presidents and congressmen. One did five years and had to beg, borrow, and steal to get back to where he left off. Others used privlide and ‘school’ deferments. Who’s right and who’s wrong? There have also been others who have been chided for somehow signing into the Guard to not go. Is that right or wrong? I’m torn a few ways being my father was in the Army before he deployed to Nam. He went being it was his duty. Ali went to jail for solid principles I somewhat agree with, but then again I made a point with myself to go. I felt you can’t earn your way while others are carrying your load in battle while you enjoy the fruits of their labor in garrison. Yet I still look at those who’ve sent us into battle and the last battle hardened vet to do so was Bush Sr. So were all the others who made every attempt to not go worthless? This subject tears me apart because of our sense of duty extends past us and our country. We should question why, when no clear answers are available yet those who send us either don’t know the answers or cloak themselves in the flag as a means to shut us up and know we’ll do the job. Ali was right. I believe that with all my heart. My father was right, over 100,000 other sad saps were right, and the 58,000 names on that wall are right. Unfortunately that also makes all those of privlidge who used every hook and crook not to go right because we allowed them not to.
I’m the end, I know quite a few NCOs, SNCOs, and officers who hid in TRADOC, Recruiting, ‘special duty assignments’, and somehow ended up being in charge of units telling others what to do but they can’t or didn’t. We allowed this to happen. I even remember a few SNCOs and senior officers who went TDY and stayed just long enough to be able to claim ‘they were there’, get a patch, maybe a CIB/CAB and come home swearing they’ve put in work. We allowed that to happen, so the onus falls back on us.
We allowed it, we should own it or fix it so everything applies equally. It won’t so what was the question again?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2018 7:54 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 19:54:19 -0400

In addition to draftees the military had volunteers who only volunteered because they knew they would be drafted, Volunteering gave them some control.

I have no problem with anyone who dodged legally. Those who ran to Canada hold a lesser status in my book.

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Jul 22 at 2018 12:24 AM

1SG Nick Baker — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 00:24:57 -0400

Drafted and slavery are on the same level. Not everyone draft went to war. I do not see people lining up to volunteer for slavery. Doing your duty as a citizen for the greater good of the country is not slavery.

The draftees, until 1970, were the ones who bought the American way of life we live today. Look at the demographics of the people who volunteered and the people who were drafted and where they served. Hmm, wonder which group suffered the most casualties.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2018 1:12 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 01:12:33 -0400

I have enough problems worrying about my own conscience. It’s not my job to dictate another man’s morality.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jul 22 at 2018 7:17 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 07:17:11 -0400

"Dodging the draft" has so many personal definitions. There were many exemptions that were put in place by the authorities because they determined it was in the nation's best interest to defer, or excuse, an individual's service. I don't consider falling into one of those categories as dodging. The military desired an inductee to be qualified for unlimited service, therefor if you had a physical condition where you were not able to meet that qualification, the military didn't want you. I bear no ill will toward those who met those conditions for legal exemption or deferment.
I still do not understand or accept Carter's pardon of those who fled the states to avoid prosecution for dodging. They broke the law and turned their back on the nation because they thought their conclusions held precedent over the law of the land. Once people start deciding they are above the law, ,we have anarchy. I consider those who opted to use political connections ton avoid the draft to fall into this group. Clinton indeed was working to avoid service before graduation by contacting politicians to seek what he considered favorable treatment to avoid service.
I never considered service, either legally imposed or voluntary as personal servitude of indentured service. All of life has situations where there is expectation of forsaking some personal desire for the greater good. I, and most people, give up personal aspirations to fulfill obligations. I would have liked to have bought a Corvette in my younger days, but didn't because I knew my family would not have the advantage of the money I spent on the car for things that they, or I, considered necessary for their happiness and welfare. If I had chosen to ignore their welfare, I could have been picked up by the authorities and been forced to provide the appropriate support for my children and wife. Service defending a nation is one of the prices paid for being a resident of any nation if it is to survive.

Response by SSG James Bloodworth made Jul 22 at 2018 3:15 PM

SSG James Bloodworth — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 15:15:27 -0400

I think it is human nature to try and avoid danger, especially danger that is forced on us. The draft has been gone for decades, and besides, we have had a President that left the nation and lead demonstrations against the US while smoking dope, and the ones screaming about draft dodgers most now are the ones that voted for him. No matter what he said, I'm sure he inhaled. I dont believe we should worry about the draft dodging as much now unless they try to claim some kind of veteran status.

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made Jul 22 at 2018 4:00 PM

LTC Wayne Dandridge — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 16:00:14 -0400

Most complicated to answer in a few words. Of course, I support the draft then and now -------- and I believe all American Citizens should serve our country in either the military, education, peace corps, or other public service capacity. However the draft back then was not done fairly and any wealthy family's kid could avoid service in Vietnam by joining the reserves or national guard. Unlike now, back then those units were not combat ready and 99.9 % did not serve in combat or overseas. Personally I could get into the reserves or national guard and I had a marriage with child and college deferment. However, I wanted to be a military aviator and saw the Army as a good career opportunity. I was so immature back then and thought I was bullet proof ------ turns out I was wrong about that too. I am proud to have served as an enlisted man, warrant officer, and commissioned officer.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jul 22 at 2018 4:51 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 16:51:09 -0400

I've pretty much gotten over worrying about this, lots more significant things to worry about these days. Many classmates were draft dodgers in one shape or form, getting married and having a kid was one of the most common, but some went to Canada, and the lucky ones used connections to get into the Guard. All were cowards to me at the time but age has mellow me. Would I seek them out to rekindle old times, no way but they know what they did and if they can live with it, so can I.

Response by SSG Nana Togonmessie Abloklu Danfira Adedufira made Jul 22 at 2018 6:12 PM

SSG Nana Togonmessie Abloklu Danfira Adedufira — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 18:12:08 -0400

"In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds..."
I do. First, your comparison is, at best inaccurate and at worse a slap in the face of both draftees and slaves. When a nation goes to war no citizen should be exempt from the war effort because none will be exempt from the results of the war's success or failure.
A draftee is indeed pressed into service, obliged to the Oath of Enlistment, and denied freedom of movement, but he is still essentially a human being entitled to all of the rights and dignity therein. These things were denied slaves. Slaves lost their names, their lives, and their value as a human being. Draftees didn't have their children sold. Draftees didn't have their genitals filleted to advance medicine. Draftees weren't mutilated for punishment. And they don't suffer generational stigma and derangements.

Response by Jenn Moynihan made Jul 22 at 2018 7:18 PM

Jenn Moynihan — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 19:18:41 -0400

When I have time I’ll be reading this entire thread. Good questions.

Response by CAPT Patrick Mulcahy made Jul 23 at 2018 12:17 AM

CAPT Patrick Mulcahy — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 00:17:22 -0400

The problem I have with deferments is that during Vietnam those who received a college deferment were then supposed to serve after graduation. And yet, President Ford ended that requirement. So my high school classmates got a four year jump start on their career and never had to serve.

Response by CAPT Rodney Clark made Jul 23 at 2018 9:47 AM

CAPT Rodney Clark — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 09:47:29 -0400

I'm a little tired of patriot tests. I've stopped trying to judge what is in the hearts of men and their motivation for what they do. I'm proud of my 34 years in uniform and 30 years on active duty serving in operational billets. I loved the military and wanted to serve my country from the time I was very young and so my calling was clear and less of a burden than someone who joined the reserves or national guard for one tour not because he liked it but served because of a sense of duty. I've seen many whom served because of the great educational or other benefits and that is fine but disappointing because of the attitude that comes along with it. For those who did not serve or found a legal way to avoid the draft, I say that is fine too. Just get a job, pay your taxes and give a little respect for those that did. For President Trump, I think he is serving the military now, it just took a while.

Response by CW2 Max Dolan made Jul 23 at 2018 10:41 AM

CW2 Max Dolan — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 10:41:48 -0400

I don't consider anyone a "draft dodger" unless they fled to Canada or did something else dispicable to get out of it. I have lots of friends my age (65-70 years old) who did not serve for one reason or the other. One DID go to Canada, but then....he was Canadian!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2018 11:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 11:32:05 -0400

Considering how idiotic the Vietnam war was I can’t blame draft dodgers

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jul 23 at 2018 3:04 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:04:34 -0400

I respect your comments but not necessarily agree with all of them.

1.) In a time of war or national crisis we as a nation do not have the luxury to rely on volunteers to serve and man the rank and file. It is necessary and in the best interest of the nation to instill a draft if and only if we are at war and cannot fill the ranks. I do not see it as involuntary servitude or slavery...this is not comparison to slavery...PERIOD. Slavery as we know it in America was a dark stain and to compare the Draft to slavery is not a valid comparison...IMHO. I see service either voluntary or through draft as a payback to those that have gone before us for the freedoms we hold so precious.
2.) I agree with the educational deferments and other legal rules. Rules are rules. People can say that was a rich mans game...I can tell you it wasn't. My uncle (from a rural farm) went to school on a shoestring budget working several jobs to get through during the draft because he wanted an education...he got a deferment because of his grades. I can cite numerous other examples from my hometown.
3.) For those that ran, stirred up trouble with rallies, spit on our troops, etc and never served and avoided the draft for those reasons...hear me clearly...I HAVE NOTHING FOR THEM...somewhere there is a tree that is screaming because they absorbed the oxygen it produced. To pardon those was a bad move and another spit in the face of those who were drafted and served/died honorably.
4.) The difference between Trump and Clinton is that Clinton made friends with Russians...our enemies...Trump used education as a deferment.

Response by SSgt Gary Andrews made Jul 23 at 2018 4:44 PM

SSgt Gary Andrews — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:44:47 -0400

Those of us that came of age in the 60's and early 70's had the draft hanging over our heads. Some sought deferments, some opted to enlist, and some took their chances on being drafted. Everyone made their choice (I enlisted) and I don't question the choices made by others, not having walked in their shoes. I have more respect for those that served than I do for those that didn't, but I harbor no ill will against anyone. That said, people who criticized Bill Clinton for dodging the draft, but now defend Donald Trump's actions to avoid it, are not credible. Nor are those that excused Clinton, but now condemn Trump. Using one's military service, or non-service, as a political hammer to beat your opposition with is despicable IMHO.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2018 5:42 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 17:42:46 -0400

During the earlier part/mid point of the Vietnam War, I was assigned to an AFEES station where we processed inductees, enlistees, and officer candidates. We witnessed so very many determined efforts to get around the system there, and anti war protests (of course we were the targets), I was sickened by so many attitudes, I was later assigned to a boot camp position where many of these "inductees" were sort out as completely unsuitable. Thank Goodness for the "All Volunteer" services which began to replace malcontents with service men and women who were there for their own reasons.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2018 6:23 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:23:05 -0400

I am disappointed in them but not upset.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jul 23 at 2018 6:38 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:38:44 -0400

As one who "dodged the draft"by enlisting during the Vietnam War, I'd like to thank you for your service. Now as to being angry, irrate or just upset with those who dodged the draft, let me put my two cents in.
Many young men dodged the draft during that time for one reason or another. But for them to run for the border to Canada and protest from there, is unforgiveable, when so many more young men were drafted or volunteered to serve in the military. I chosed to volunteer to serve to repay for the free education I got growing in NYC, and to follow in my brother's and father's foot steps. My father served in WW2, my brother during the Vietnam war and after. He didn't go to Vietnam but to Korea (which technically was still at war). Those men whose families that had "big bucks", got deferments for college, medical and so on. Those with out "big bucks" chose to leave the USA, change their names, or hide out from the authorities. Bill Clinton chose not to serve, President Trump got a deferment, true. But boxer Mohammed Ali chose not to serve because he felt it was wrong to go to war. Mr. Ali instead chose to resist and went to prison for resisting. I can agree with Mr. Ali and admire him for standing up for his beliefs. Mr. Trump and Mr. Clinton cases, I take different views on. As a POTUS, you are the Commander in Chief of your country's military. You must ensure that those serving, volunteers and drafted, are properly cared for, housed, paid and equipped to defend this country. Many a POTUS who has never served in the military has let those four items above, fall and are reduced. But it is also the duty of Congress to approve advancements for those who serve. But draft dodgers who left the US deserve nothing. Voting, housing, social security or citizenship. But there are those who were against killing in any way, shape or form, who stayed in the US and did other volunteer work. Some even went into the military to become medics or clecks. Draft dodgers who didn't serve, deserve no say in matters of the military, unless they support those who did go through the draft or volunteered. I have a few friends, who didn't serve in the military. They still served in other ways. One was a civil engineer for the NAVY. Another worked in Civil Engineers as a civilian construction worker. Former POTUS Clinton chose to become a member of USAID I believe. Bush 43 served in the Air Force reserve. So you see, many of our presidents have chosen to serve or did not. How they support their troops, sailors and so forth is another thing. Wether in war or peace time, the POTUS must fully support the Americans in the military. My feelings. Any POTUS, Congressman/woman or politican who runs for high office, best take great care of the US military man, woman and family, because they chose to serve. Draft dodgers must either take their medicine or keep out of politics. Sorry for going off subject at some points.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2018 12:31 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jul 2018 12:31:24 -0400

After a few decades, I believe it is a mute argument. To quote Hillary (ugh), "At this point, what difference does it make?"

Response by PO1 John Johnson made Jul 24 at 2018 3:36 PM

PO1 John Johnson — Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:36:36 -0400

A great, thought provoking post. Nice to see a respectable, well thought out post, with a bare minimum of name-calling or vehement commenting in response.

That being said, and as I have said before, I would like to point out a few of the things I saw after I enlisted in the USCG in July 79. I made 3rd Class PO in Sep 81. Imagine my surprise when I found out I had 35-40yr old E-2's and 3's working for me (I was barely 20 at that point). Most of these guys had enlisted in the USCG to escape being drafted into the Army or Marines. Some of them (not all) couldn't give 2 craps about uniforms, military bearing, saluting, standing watch, etc. Drug use was rampant off duty, on duty, standing watch, even when underway. All some of them cared about was they didn't go to Vietnam and that was it. It took Pres. Reagan's RIF Program in the early 80's to sort them out and get them out of the military. Once the deadwood were gone, Military Bearing and Professionalism went through the roof, at least in the USCG.

As someone who has seen the end results of a draft coupled with an unpopular war, I cannot whole heartedly support a "required National Service" to include a Military commitment from today's youth. I do realize that in times of "war", it maybe necessary (a draft) but it tends to create more of a problem than it tries to solve. JMHO.

Response by COL John McClellan made Jul 24 at 2018 3:40 PM

COL John McClellan — Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:40:38 -0400

Thought-provoking piece and many comments on all aspects. I served in the all-volunteer era, but would just say that some Americans at the time of Vietnam had the means (wealth, influence) to avoid the draft through various legal means, while many simply did not. The same thing has happened in previous conflicts as well. That troubles me. Our current president is not the first in my lifetime to face these questions - what bothers me about this man is hypocrisy: he hurled the same invective at others, but now his situation is somehow different. He compared clubbing in NYC in the 70s with being in Vietnam - a ridiculous assertion; and he has smeared more than one American Veteran (notably, John McCain) when he can not claim that honor and should just say nothing.

Response by SGT Charles Hanson made Jul 24 at 2018 7:00 PM

SGT Charles Hanson — Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:00:18 -0400

Some deferments are very legitimate. Those few who fake them should be held accountable. I believe Trump went and played tennis after getting his last deferment. I hold him in contempt.

Response by Jana Bowman DeHaan made Jul 24 at 2018 8:30 PM

Jana Bowman DeHaan — Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:30:53 -0400

For what the war was as it turned out to be, I regret serving, especially the VA bullshit.

Response by SGT Everett M. Cheney made Jul 25 at 2018 5:31 PM

SGT Everett M. Cheney — Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:31:44 -0400

I’m not going to be hateful towards any US citizen that avoided “dodged” the draft and service. However ,that said, I will swiftly reply to any one that chooses to be hateful towards myself or my Ranger Brothers for our service or anyone that served . Certainly there’s freedom of speech , I will and do exercise my equal freedom of replying to their freedom of speech . Out here ...RLTW

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jul 27 at 2018 12:46 AM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 00:46:01 -0400

Yes we should be... SSG Gerhard S.

Response by LTC Philip Sharp made Jul 29 at 2018 12:55 AM

LTC Philip Sharp — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 00:55:38 -0400

William Jefferson Clinton; did not serve. Al Gore did. LBJ was an opportunist who served because he saw it as important for his future political plans. Barack Obama did not serve; nor did Hillary R. Clinton or Donald J. Trump. So either way this country is looking at 16 years of a commander in chief with no military experience. In retrospect those who dodged the draft not in accordance with our laws deserve some degree of ire; especially since the likes of Casius Clay were willing to go to prison for their beliefs. What Trump, Clinton, Stallone, Limbaugh and others did was legal and in accordance with our laws. How many used their connections to get their sons into the National Guard to avoid service in Viet Nam? Wasn't this an "equal offense?" Using position and power to avoid service in Viet Nam.

Response by MSgt Manuel Smith made Jul 30 at 2018 9:52 AM

MSgt Manuel Smith — Mon, 30 Jul 2018 09:52:06 -0400

No. Why be upset? That's in the past. It doesn't change anything, just brings more division in our country. We need to move forward. The military is not for everyone anyway.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jul 30 at 2018 10:33 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Mon, 30 Jul 2018 10:33:23 -0400

Yes, because those individuals who "dodged" and "ditched" are the very same individuals in positions of influence and affluence in American politics. Who would have guessed "dodging" and "ditching" could be so lucrative?

Response by MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy made Jul 31 at 2018 6:46 AM

MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 06:46:12 -0400

SSG Gerhard S., Would you agree that the military isn't for everyone? Have a great Air & Space Day. Defensor Fortis!

Response by CPL Douglas Chrysler made Jul 31 at 2018 7:19 PM

CPL Douglas Chrysler — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:19:10 -0400

I could tell you something about the draft, but my information is a little dated. You all may know about it already since I don't think any of it was classified. It was important 50 years ago, but now, like then, I think people are worried for nothing.

Response by PO1 Steven Bridge made Aug 1 at 2018 1:43 AM

PO1 Steven Bridge — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 01:43:21 -0400

Hard to think of Trump as 'dodging' the draft when he used the means provided by the US Gov't to avoid joining. Now... running across the border to avoid serving... I find that a true act of 'dodging' the draft.

As far as those serving next to you being better quality brothers in arms because they volunteered... I think it doesn't honestly matter too much when you have politicians stepping in and displaying their lack of intestinal fortitude to see the job through to its fruition - resulting in countless warriors' lives lost. Too many lessons forgotten from America's finest generation - those who served during WWII.

Response by Col Ed Lewis made Aug 1 at 2018 1:57 PM

Col Ed Lewis — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:57:29 -0400

I do not agree that the draft was a form of slavery. It was invoked as a resolution to fill a national requirement. I was too young to be drafted, but accept the fact the draft is a part of our history just as slavery was leading up to the US Civil War. We should accept these facts, learn lessons from these actions, and move on. I have seen other countries employ a 2 year commitment of "national service" and I do agree with this. This service can be in the form of Red Cross, Peace Corps, or some other group but this service gives back to society. Perhaps a national service requirement would increase the number of military volunteers.

Response by CW4 Charles Rogers made Aug 1 at 2018 2:24 PM

CW4 Charles Rogers — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 14:24:46 -0400

I was for many years but now I can't waste my time being upset. I am more bothered by thoa who claim to have been in Vietnam and never served a day in uniform.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 1:23 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 01:23:41 -0400

Why be upset, with the people who were forced to choose. We should be upset with a system that made them have to choose. Anyone who has the authority to send men and women to die or serve in the military, should have a standby to fill their office while they go off to serve with those whom they have sent off. If they are not physically able then their children, spouse or significant other should go in their stead.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Aug 2 at 2018 11:27 AM

SFC Harry H. — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:27:02 -0400

I sometimes lean towards no we shouldn't. One of the reasons the US Military has the greatest Military in the world, is because we are an all volunteer Military. Like COL Doolittle said, "There is nothing stronger then the heart of a volunteer". The problem during "Drafts" is that the Military isn't getting those volunteers. Vietnam wasn't a huge direct impact on the US like Pearl Harbor or 9/11. Many Americans had no idea why we were even in Vietnam or agreed with what was going on there. I do understand that in the time of direct US interest, where the possibility of war could end up at home. Then all hands need to be on deck. Until then, leave war to us volunteers.

Response by SPC Jesse Johnston made Aug 2 at 2018 3:36 PM

SPC Jesse Johnston — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 15:36:22 -0400

SSG Gerhard S. I disagree with the premise that it would be a forced indenturement / servitude / slavery. The underlying necessity of the draft is a price we have agreed to pay by remaining here. While I don't agree with the necessity of the draft in the instance of the Vietnam war, there are a multitude of contingencies for which I believe it's needed. It is the law we as citizens abide by and have the ability to overturn democratically, just like all laws we create, modify or remove, the greatest need will always prevail. It's our responsibility as citizens to ask and evaluate those we elect into power how they view it's use so that we understand under what circumstances they might choose to utilize a draft. This is how we become so passionate about presidential candidates, actions always speak louder than words. To the average person, a candidate's draft status speaks louder than any town hall speech about how they would implement a law to incorporate America's sons into the business of war.

Response by 1SG Charles Rivenburgh made Aug 3 at 2018 10:31 PM

1SG Charles Rivenburgh — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 22:31:52 -0400

Are you really sure you want my answer, Son? First, you better pull your head out of that dictionary and someplace else. You need to do some reading on our country's history. Not that b/s that passes for schooling today. Read about the Civil War. Particularly about the Draft Riots in New York City and around the rest of the country. After that read that drivel you wrote about "servitude" & "slavery". SSG for a 11B2P you are sorely lacking in situational awareness. Very important for your MOS. How in the heck did you get promoted? Do you not realize that when you took the oath of enlistment you lost a lot of rights. You deploy when they tell you, you deploy where they tell you and a lot of other things when they tell you. Yes, you volunteered. But by your dictionary, you are either a slave or a servant. What you need to be is a leader. Leave the political crap in the civilian world. You have a job to do and that is to train your men, make sure their welfare is met. You are to be proficient in every task, weapon and any other manner of things they do. You are to be better at it at all times. That's why that question sucked, you don't have the time if you're doing your job.
As for the sick, lame and lazy cowards that fled to Canada, they should still be there!! Jimmy Peanuts is the reason the deadbeats are here now. Do you think me harsh? I DON'T care. I talked with my boyhood friend on Inauguration Day 1969. We wanted to meet, but I was packing out for Japan and he was headed for Vietnam. He, my cousin and I did everything together as boys. My cousin was stationed in Colorado with 4ID. That was the last time I talked to him. He was a Navy Corpsman. He was cut down in a rice patty tending to a wounded Marine. Actions have consequences, permanent consequences. If you pulled up your skirt and ran for the border, you ass better be there today. Because my friend is laying in Arlington and can't see his son.
There were 4 categories when I came into the Army. RA, US, NG & ER. The US was the draftees. Everybody else was a volunteer. The only one that stayed in as long as the US, was an RA. Regular Army. I received twice as much crap in basic because of I asked for it by volunteering.
Stay out of the dictionary, unless you use the words correctly.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Aug 4 at 2018 1:09 PM

1SG John Highfill — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 13:09:25 -0400

It doesn’t bother me I was in Viet Nam . Lots of president have not served it how they serve as COC that matters

Response by SP5 Dana Berry made Aug 5 at 2018 12:11 AM

SP5 Dana Berry — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 00:11:51 -0400

I volunteered for the draft, served proudly and came home whole. Those that had reasons for deferrals had a right to use them just like those whose numbers were not called had the right to stay home. Slavery? Nope!!

Response by Tavia Baldwin made Aug 5 at 2018 2:35 AM

Tavia Baldwin — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 02:35:45 -0400

I do not support a draft that is inequal. I have not served in the military, I was only raised in it. In this day and age, I fail to see the value in maintaining "selective service" when we are part of a country so divided.
If we must keep the draft, make it inclusive to all citizens between the ages of 18-25... Yes, this includes drafting women.
Now before anyone brings up the tired argument of, "women can't do the same things men can", I beg to differ. When have proven, for centuries, that we are more than capable of fulfilling the roles vacated by men to fulfill their draft obligations. On top of that, each and every one of you have a different set of skills that not every man can do, some are stronger, some more intellectual, some are kinetically gifted... So too are women.
If we need to have a draft, make all citizens eligible for it.
Or get rid of it altogether.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Aug 5 at 2018 9:33 AM

1SG James Matthews — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 09:33:49 -0400

I feel each and every American man and woman owes two years to their country either in the military or in duties assigned by the government.

Response by SFC Kevin Hathaway made Aug 5 at 2018 10:51 AM

SFC Kevin Hathaway — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 10:51:02 -0400

Why can't this be put to rest? Doing two tours and coming home I did not care what others believed or did! I went on to spend 28 years in the MANG. I helped kids fix and fly as crewmembers in HUEYS and CHINOOKS. They did not know what the DRAFT was and we left it at that, give it up, move on.

Response by SPC William Hasley made Aug 5 at 2018 9:34 PM

SPC William Hasley — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 21:34:05 -0400

As an oldster who did NOT avoid the draft in 60's, I agree with most of above answer. I did not want to go. Indeed I lived on Lake Erie and could easily have gotten to Canada. However,I decided that two years was the price to pay for living here. I went, attained the "Exalted" rank of SP4 as an 11B; humped the boonies; did my time in the I-core area ; and came home. I've never had much of a problem with anyone who opted not to go for whatever reason, but I still get extremely surly when someone suggests I was stupid for going. I made my own decision; learned some valuable things about myself and and other people; then came home; and went on with my life. If that bothers someone, I always respectfully suggest that they comment an anatomical impossibility.

Response by SFC Jim Dorsey made Aug 6 at 2018 2:44 PM

SFC Jim Dorsey — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 14:44:47 -0400

You either served or didn’t. Draftee or VOLAR. There is no gray area ... referring to 1A status of course. And if the beauracracy continues... more rules, more bs , more opportunities are granted for deferment!

Response by Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire made Aug 9 at 2018 12:05 PM

Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire — Thu, 09 Aug 2018 12:05:13 -0400

Its been 50+ years. We need to let it go. Start living and praying for what you got! God Bless

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Aug 10 at 2018 11:41 AM

Sgt Mervyn Russell — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 11:41:48 -0400

A lot of the men I served with in Vietnam were draftees, they served with honor. They were Marines in the fullest extent of the word. Could not have ask for a better bunch of men to have served with. I don't know much about the people that went to Canada, never met a person that evaded the draft. But I'm am from the South, I'm not sure if the people from the South takes this honor more serious than anywhere else in this Country? But, I served with folks from all over the Country and from other Countries as well.

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made Aug 10 at 2018 12:07 PM

LTC Wayne Dandridge — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:07:24 -0400

Thansk for the vote up Gerhard. Sincerely, W. Larry Dandridge

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 3:41 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:41:45 -0400

Those are the same type of people who bash the military on social media.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Aug 11 at 2018 8:23 PM

PO2 John Driskill — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 20:23:05 -0400

People dodged the draft during the Vietnam period. Bill Clinton did and was pardoned by Jimmy Carter. A lot of people dodged the draft by staying and taking deferments. Some joined the National Guard and dodged it that way. The draft was created to make sure that everyone served, rich and poor. Didn't work out too well in the end.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made Aug 13 at 2018 6:18 PM

SFC Thomas Howes — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:18:49 -0400

I don't blame them or the once that took the college out

Response by LTC Kim Peterson made Aug 13 at 2018 8:43 PM

LTC Kim Peterson — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:43:20 -0400

The draft dodgers who used their wealth and connections to avoid the draft are worse than the individuals who fled to Canada. Especially the draft dodgers who now cloak themselves in the flag and act like patriots....

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Aug 14 at 2018 8:35 AM

1SG Dave Carello — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 08:35:53 -0400

They were "Pardoned" but NEVER forgiven! Especially those who RAN to Canada.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Aug 16 at 2018 8:56 AM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:56:01 -0400

For those that deliberately dodged the draft as Bill Clinton did; then hell yes. A lot of guys answered the call but some simply ran or coward down. I have no sympathy for them.

Response by LCDR Bruce Sheppard made Aug 17 at 2018 2:32 PM

LCDR Bruce Sheppard — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 14:32:01 -0400

i always found the premise in Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" fascinating: if you didn't serve in the military, you didn't have the right to vote. and the book made a pretty good case for that btw

Response by SSG Craig Thompson made Aug 18 at 2018 4:55 PM

SSG Craig Thompson — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 16:55:38 -0400

No, the right to vote or hold public office should be restricted to veterans. If you are unwilling to put your life in jeopardy to defend this nation, why should you have any say in how its run?

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2018 6:49 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:49:05 -0400

If they went out of their way to dodge, sure (I personally have other things to worry about), if they genuinely met the exceptions, no.

Response by PV2 Paul Fry made Aug 18 at 2018 7:11 PM

PV2 Paul Fry — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 19:11:52 -0400

I volunteered in 1978 no war. if you get legal deferment I don't blame you at all as long as you till the truth, if you run to Canada you know what you were doing so you need to pay the price. like lose voting rights. no government employment no elective office . if you lost your citizenship to get out of the draft you need to go to the back of the line to get back in.

Response by SPC Robert DeBuck made Aug 18 at 2018 8:27 PM

SPC Robert DeBuck — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:27:45 -0400

73 Years old, Served 3 years US Army. "The War" really started after JFK's murder. After LBJ's coup, he escalated it. WHY? Brown & Root became a colossal corporation, and made the insiders a lot of money, a lot.
Pres. Eisenhower had warned about the MI Complex, and the grave danger it will, and does. represented.
Johnson has JFK murdered, in response we Americans see the attempt to dissolve the 2nd Amendment. And the effort to Socialize this country.
Ezra T Benson warned that we will come very close loosing the Constitution. That if it is preserved it will be with the loss of our own blood.

The one great HOPE I have is that the leaders of our Armed Forces, who have vowed and sworn to
defend, preserve, protect the Constitution of the these United States will do so.

Robert DeBuck

Response by SFC Domingo M. made Aug 18 at 2018 8:30 PM

SFC Domingo M. — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 20:30:20 -0400

So long as their initials are "Bill Clinton."

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Aug 19 at 2018 6:23 PM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 18:23:57 -0400

In regards to the POTUS, how he may or may not of avoided service is now water well passed under the bridge. Previously many draft dodgers were given amnesty and how they bear with it is between them selves and any higher power they observe. The same feeling I just expressed applies for Mr. TRUMP. What happened in the past may have some bearing in how he responds today. But I am in no position to judge. Not having been of draft age then. And having served in the Army when Mr. William J. Clinton, another draft avoider served as POTUS.

Response by 2LT Ronald Reimer made Aug 21 at 2018 7:08 AM

2LT Ronald Reimer — Tue, 21 Aug 2018 07:08:40 -0400

Outstanding, well thought out position! Thank you for sharing.

Response by SSgt Matthew Johnson made Aug 22 at 2018 8:50 AM

SSgt Matthew Johnson — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:50:26 -0400

I'm 48 next month.. I was 2 when the last draft ended.. Why would I be upset?

Response by SFC Michael W. made Aug 22 at 2018 2:03 PM

SFC Michael W. — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:03:11 -0400

Well, Clinton also was a draft dodger...
To me it's like this...that individual is the only one to answer up for being a draft dodger and live with its consequences. It doesn't bother me at all until either that person talks down about the military in the things we do and why (since they have no idea what we do) or when they attempt to wear our uniform and try to claim they are vets. I served proudly with my 20+ years and would do it all over again in a HEARTBEAT!

Some individuals simply are NOT cut out to be in the military...I rather have someone who volunteers to join than someone who's a walking problem because they hate the military and was drafted so now I have to stay alert of their negative attitude while in the military. That individual would be a huge headache because almost everyday they would gripe and complain about something.

Response by PO2 Jim Roblyer made Aug 22 at 2018 10:23 PM

PO2 Jim Roblyer — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 22:23:16 -0400

I would agree, but would add that I served to preserve the freedom of others to make the choice to serve or not to serve. I hold no resentment toward those that did not serve. US Navy 67-71.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Aug 28 at 2018 12:56 AM

LTC John Griscom — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:56:31 -0400

Didn't hear many complaints about Bill Clinton who got out his contract with the military and didn't serve. I consider his actions worst than Trump's.
I didn't respond to my draft notice in 1966 because when it came, I was a 1LT in Korea.

Response by SGT Mike Moschkin made Aug 29 at 2018 12:59 PM

SGT Mike Moschkin — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:59:58 -0400

You are fortunate today's wars have been of low intensity I know from my own experiences having fought in the last high intensity war (Vietnam) without the draft there wouldn't have been enough replacements. We deployed as a full strength TO&E company of 178 men which included the weapons platoon. After our first battle in which we took 55 WIAs and 2 KIAs we never got up to full strength again. The tree line platoons were less then 100 men one time we lost a full squad in my platoon so we stayed a two squad platoon for three weeks. Yes there a lot of volunteers back then but not enough to meet the needed replacement number draftees made up a third of them. I had volunteered RA for 4 years myself and I saw that there were difficulties meeting quotas in this all volunteer Army and thus lowered standards to meet the quotas. It wasn't just differment you omitted the bone spurs to boot !

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 8:55 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:55:40 -0400

No ill thoughts to those who dodged the draft, except those like Ted Nugent who acted so pro-war during the Bush Presidency.

Response by SPC Eldson McGhee made Aug 30 at 2018 9:21 PM

SPC Eldson McGhee — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:21:50 -0400

The Draft was the law of the land, and obeying Draft was not hard for those of us who loved [loves] this Nation. We served, fought beside and died with volunteers, and we never had anyone question our induction route and love for this country. So your beliefs that draftees were not "Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force" are based on ignorance and demeans a whole generation of great American patriots. We served with unity, honor, courage and confidence that our homeland would remain free because of our service. The draft evaders and/or those who supported them have the same rights I served to insure for you and those who demean our service. I normally don't take the time to respond to discussions like this, but today I am saluting my fellow Vietnam Veteran, Senator John McClain, and was visiting RP to see how the rest of this Nation's veterans are doing this. President Trump is assaulting the greatest Nation on earth, but greater is He that's in US than he that's in the world. He is seeking to divide and conquer US for the seek of Russia. Are we to be the United States of Russia in America? I was awarded the Purple Heart Medal for being wounded-in-action in the Vietnam War, and over 58000 of my peers were killed-in-action in that war standing against the spread of dictatorships. Yes, the politics of that day got US to where we are today. We won the ground war in Vietnam but lost the political war in Washington DC. Senator John McClain spent his whole life fighting for this Nation. In my eyes, he was the greatest American patriot of our times, and I am just appreciating him right now.

Response by SSgt Warren Henthorn made Aug 31 at 2018 5:05 PM

SSgt Warren Henthorn — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 17:05:51 -0400

When I was drafted in 1967 it was mostly accepted as a person's duty in Okla. Was not crazy about it but tough.

Response by CPT Bob Mason made Sep 1 at 2018 10:14 PM

CPT Bob Mason — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 22:14:22 -0400

My active duty was July 1970 through March 1972 followed by active reserve until August 1985 when I was caught in Reagan 's RIF (I was in Command and General Staff school at the time instead of a TOE unit), so I experienced both the draft Army and the volunteer Army. I much prefer the volunteer Army. Having said that, I also witnessed draftees in my unit who bitched continually but did their duty.

Draft dodgers and draft resisters are two different animals. I did not think much of Mohammed Ali one way or the other when he was just a boxer, but he gained my admiration when he refused to serve and went to jail rather than run to Canada. He was a resister. Those who ran to Canada were dodgers for whom I had no sympathy.

After all of these decades, I would like to think that I harbor no bad feelings toward the dodgers, but a recent event makes me unsure. Since my retirement from my civilian career, I have been working in my wife's shop. a few weeks ago, a lady came into the shop. In the course of our talking, she relayed with great pride that she had been a war protester in the late 60's and early 70's. Although I did not respond, I reflected back on how I and others were treated during that time and felt real resentment toward her.

Response by SSG Wm Johnson made Sep 2 at 2018 2:38 PM

SSG Wm Johnson — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 14:38:04 -0400

Hell I've always held that I went so that others wouldn't have to!
But then on the other hand I have resented those hid or fled. My best friend of my school years was what you could call a 'Refusenik'. He refused to go and actually did time in prison (since pardoned). I have always respected those who took their stand and paid the price all without apology. As for those who could and did 'work the System' to use the law as written to avoid the Draft, more power to 'em. That is how it's supposed to work.

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Sep 2 at 2018 11:48 PM

MAJ John Douglas — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 23:48:11 -0400

People were wounded and killed when they had to take their places. No respect here for them at all. I am a product of that generation although I was in high school and college much of the Vietnam time and went in the Army with the post Vietnam generation in 1977. I remember it all very well and will never have any respect for anyone who refused service.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Sep 4 at 2018 6:24 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 18:24:21 -0400

My problem with Panty Waist Bill Clinton's draft dodging is he defected to an enemy country when he dodged the draft.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Sep 10 at 2018 8:21 AM

SSG Gerhard S. — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:21:19 -0400

Another perspective to consider for those of you who believe there is, or should be some sort of special carve out in our rights for conscription.
First, a few "Givens":
** We all know, as service members that being in the military means a loss of certain rights that those in the civilian world enjoy unhindered. Clearly, those who volunteer for service, know, and understand their rights will be curtailed in certain areas.

** The legal definition of involuntary servitude (and Peony) reads: "A condition of compulsory service or labor performed by one person, against his will, for the benefit of another person due to force, threats, intimidation or other similar means of coercion and compulsion directed against him."

** The 5th Amendment says (in part) the following: “No person shall be.... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;* ....

** The 13th Amendment says: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

** Every service member swore an oath to "support and defend" the Constitution, and to "bear true faith and allegiance to the same."

Given these facts, and understanding that a person, knowingly and willing gives up certain rights is not an issue when one voluntarily enlists, or is commissioned for service. I suspect none of us takes issue with this, as it is done so, voluntarily.

One wonders though, how one's rights can be reduced without this voluntary aspect, through compulsory service? Don't both the 5th, and 13th amendments prohibit the loss of "life, liberty, or property" without due process? Specifically, the 13th amendment requires due process as the result of a conviction of a crime to take one's rights, or freedom.

So, I would respectfully ask, how those who support general, and direct conscription can square that point of view with these amendments, of which we all swore an oath to "support and defend ... against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same."? There are no caveats, or exemptions for conscription in either of these Amendments.

The purpose of this exercise it NOT to question anyone's fealty to their oath, but rather to introduce a perspective to consider on this issue. As always, sincerely interested in your input, perspective, and opinions.

Response by SGT Jerry Ericsson made Sep 10 at 2018 11:32 AM

SGT Jerry Ericsson — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:32:17 -0400

Man, I have to tell you, things were so very different in the draft era. Now I enlisted back in 1970, and back then the draft was going strong. We had switched to the lottery system because many dodgers were able to buy their way out of the draft by using the wealth of their families to keep them at home. Back then the pay in the Army was very, shall we say, minimal, not like today where a soldier can actually feed his family on his pay. There were no lines at the Recruiting Stations, in fact the lines were around the station with protesters interfering with those who would serve. When I went into the AFEES station back then, there were protesters outside the station handing out "KNOW YOUR RIGHTS" fliers made on old mimeographs like the handouts we received in school in the 50's. There were more people protesting the war in Vietnam then those who were willing to go over to fight, and I have to tell you, I still don't talk to the classmate of mine who went to Canada to avoid the Draft. Sure back then I made an attempt at enlisting in the National Guard to avoid going, but after hitting 4 units in 3 States I gave up on that, and finding myself unemployed with a pregnant wife, I enlisted so she could have coverage for the birth of my son, who was born whilst I was in mid tour in Vietnam. Things were so much different back then, I think you are looking at the past through the glasses of todays world. Believe me, they do not show the truth, you had to be there. I was, and I think that, perhaps, I have a bit better point to judge weather the draft was anything like slavery. Believe me it was NOT! Those who fled to Canada should have been prosecuted, hell I even arrested a rapist back in the 90's who had deserted the US Army back then, when we notified the Armed Forces Police, their response was just "Let it be, he will do his time for the rape, we don't mess with Vietnam era deserters!" Now for one who did enlist, and did serve over there, it was like a kick in the balls to see those who deserted get a free walk!

Response by MAJ Charles Cozzens made Sep 10 at 2018 11:37 AM

MAJ Charles Cozzens — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:37:42 -0400

I like the sound and the meaning of the words"Rules are the rules" and the "spirit of the implementation" thereof " speaks volumes. One Sunday morning in Sunday school, a gentleman sitting behind me was saying that he wished he had served. He was of the age(65) that could have easily served in Viet Nam. As we age we can and do often reflect on statement "Do your Duty no more no less" said by RE Lee. The man in question missed his chance to serve his country and now has a void to fill. The silent presence of the tri-folded US flag at a veteran's funeral will sear in the hearts and minds of all present that yes, military service does count Bill Clinton( Slick was drafted and had a report date and the definition of "Failure to repair" were met). When rules are followed and service is legally avoided, the lines become blurred in honor and duty. I close with the thought that if one lives to a mature age, you will have to ask yourself did you do your duty when called?

Response by SFC (Retired) Efrain Hernandez made Sep 10 at 2018 11:51 AM

SFC (Retired) Efrain Hernandez — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:51:53 -0400

Be upset why? Would you want someone who makes excuses in the same foxhole as you? You want someone who says send me, give me that rifle.

Response by Eliu Luciana made Sep 14 at 2018 5:29 PM

Eliu Luciana — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 17:29:02 -0400

Response by SSgt John Carter made Sep 16 at 2018 12:21 PM

SSgt John Carter — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:21:16 -0400

No. They had their reasons. Not everyone is cut out for military service

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2018 9:15 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:15:32 -0400

Nothing wrong with dodging the draft. Forced military service isn't freedom also Vietnam was a BS war that we never should have gotten involved in. I would have dodged also if I lived during that time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2018 3:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 15:52:48 -0400

I wouldn't say I'm upset, I just don't esteem them as much as I do with those that I've served with in combat. Sylvester Stallion plays a war hero in Rambo's and he's a dodger.. Don't dislike him, but I'll never watch him portray a real hero, which he isn't. People have to live with their decisions, actions and inactions. Do I think less of them, well I try not to judge too much and I'll keep it at that.

Response by CSM Jim Corrin made Sep 20 at 2018 4:57 PM

CSM Jim Corrin — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:57:04 -0400

Look up Sen. Blumenthal's record, he had something like 5 deferments then lied about his service.
I was a draft dodger, I enlisted...

Response by Cpl Douglas Loven made Sep 22 at 2018 5:50 AM

Cpl Douglas Loven — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 05:50:54 -0400

Not wanting to get into why we were in Nam in the 1st place. I greatly respect those that served and I respect the opinions of those that thought we should not have been there. But not Jane Fonda, she's a c*nt.

As this pertains to Trump I don't care if he was a dodger. This country needs something different and Trump may not have been the President we wanted but he is the president we needed, Flaws and all.

Response by SGT J M Porters made Sep 23 at 2018 10:47 PM

SGT J M Porters — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 22:47:17 -0400

Guys, you are digging a hole that a body bag will not fill. It will be so deep and narrow until once you are in you can not get out. Let me say I appreciate your service of all those who went or served on activated duty. The class before me in AIT Aberdeen Proving Grounds was deployed to Vietnam. When we graduated we were scheduled to go to Vietnam but then we were reassigned to Big Red 1 Fort Riley Kansas. I then signed up to go AirBorn at Fort Benning Ga. but did not get accepted. I did a training mission in Germany and came back to the USA. I always thought the way to the White House was through Military Service.
It takes a special class of person to serve in the military. Some people are just not cut out for it. Join the military wife club. It takes a special woman to be a military wife as many of you know.
So whether they took advantage of the waiver, or served or just did as Muhammad Ali did by refusing to serve on religious ground. That is their right as US citizens.
That is one of the things that makes America so great. We have one of the best or we have The Best all Voluntary Amry in the world. The next time you think you have a right to criticized or refect on a fellow soldier just remember he or she does not have to be here. Guys, there is no one who does what you all do for what you get paid and what you sacrifice in the world. I will always have your back!
And remember we do this in whatever capacity that we can. Next time you are in the PX remember they are serving because they are there for you.

Response by SP6 Christopher Haydon made Sep 24 at 2018 12:00 PM

SP6 Christopher Haydon — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:00:25 -0400

On the whole I disagree with the author's premise that the draft is invonuntary servitude or slavery. A requirement for national service should be apart of our national framework. It serves many purposes: it strengthens our personal sense of duty to country; it provides manpower for not only the military but for non-military functions as well; and it begns a process for young people to begin to understand the concept of personal responsibility and teamwork. I also disagree with not criticizing those who used their money or position to avoid service during Vietnam regardless of how 'legal' their avoidance may have been protrayed.. Calling Donald Trump a 'draft dodger' may not be that far off - his 'bone spurs' may have kept him out of the military and Vietnam, but they didn't keep him off the ski slopes the following weekend, or the golf course for many years to come. Similary, my brother-in-law, a scion from a very wealthy and influential family and one of the finest wingshots and rifle shots I have ever known, was declared 4F based upon his vision, which has since been corrected. Also, George W Bush used his family's influence to go to the head of the iine in the Texas National Guard and further included his wishes to fly the F-102, not in service at the time in Vietnam, as well as checking the box that he would not be willing to serve overseas. These are but a small snippet of how the priveleged were able to avoid service. My solution would be to have everyone serve in some way after they graduate from high school. It is not uncommon throughout the world.

Less than .2% of the nation's population served in Vietnam. Our minority has been overlooked or disparaged over the years, and now we get "Thank you for your service." That falls far short of what we needed when we returned, and far short of what we need today as we age. The promises made by our government as incentive to join the military have been abandoned and/or have severely diminished our benefits, and the Veteran's Administration has proven time and time again that it is more of a stumbling block than our lifeline in our declining years.

The definitions of 'servitude' and 'slavery' bear no resemblance to national service. That this service would not be completely voluntary is immaterial.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2018 7:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 19:57:06 -0400

The modern United States is a bastion of freedom. There are other such countries, but there are plenty of places that are not free. (Example: see the Index of Economic Freedom -> https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking ) Our Bill of Rights goes beyond economic freedom and it makes us a rare place in the world. Outside our borders are threats - on in 1993 and in 2001, we were made very aware of the threat of Islamic terrorism. A few years before the 1993 WTC attack, the threat of cataclysmic nuclear war receded with the fall of the USSR and its enslaved satellite states and annexed "republics". Today, we have a resurgent Russia, nuclear weapons in Pakistan and North Korea (how soon until Iran?), and the (still distant, hopefully never-realized) possibility of a truly adversarial relationship with China.

Within our borders, we are free to live our lives more-or-less as we please so long as we don't harm others or trample on our neighbor's rights. It isn't perfect, but it's very good. In order to preserve what we have - this bastion of freedom - capable citizens must provide the defense. Who else is going to do it? Who else could be trusted to do it?

American servicemembers don't serve a political figure. They don't serve a landed-gentry class. They serve the Constitution. The Constitution is what defines our bastion of freedom.

On the question of draft dodging - when one man honors his responsibility and reports for service, but another man intentionally, purposefully schemes to avoid his responsibility and carries out his scheme, refusing to serve when called on, then the avoider, (the draft dodger), has shirked his responsibility to the bastion of freedom. At the time of the draft, there was a lot of injustice in America. I can see how many people would have been bitter about those injustices. But there isn't much justice to be found among the Nazis, the Imperial Japanese, or the Communists, either.

I didn't have to face the situations that existed in the years of the draft. I can only really know the time in which I've been alive and aware. If, for some reason, we had a new draft today and the cause was within the reasonable parameters of being just, then I would have little patience for anyone who sought to dodge that draft.

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation.

Response by SPC Phillip Anderson made Sep 28 at 2018 11:08 AM

SPC Phillip Anderson — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:08:03 -0400

It cost Ford the election in 1976 when he pardoned all draft dodgers, but it was the right thing to do to begin to heal the country.
If we condemn one person, shouldn't we condemn them all regardless of party affiliation.

Response by SGT David Lacer made Sep 28 at 2018 5:58 PM

SGT David Lacer — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:58:27 -0400

No to all draft dodgers, to think you could run and hide like cowards then get to come back to enjoy the freedom that others died for. You got to come back into this great country be thankful for that.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Sep 29 at 2018 8:52 AM

Cpl Glynis Sakowicz — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:52:36 -0400

You know, the older I get, the more complicated this issue gets within my own mind. Like any child of the Cold War, I had this view that a true citizen of any country, would step up and fight for it, should the need arise.

Then, as I grew up, and entered High School, heard the nightly body count, knew so many in uniform, and attended so many, many funerals, I let the idea wander thru my mind a bit, and I thought, "We are each a collection of our own decisions and actions, if that is the decision they make, and those are their actions, then so be it... because a time is coming when they will feel a sense of loss for not having those experiences so many of us do... and dang, you have congressmen swearing they were in Vietnam... you have Stolen Valor all over the place, by people, that just had to lift a a hand and swear in, just like we did, but chose otherwise. Are they regretting it now? Are they suddenly feeling Envy that we have something they never, ever will? Who knows... because I certainly don't.

What I do know, after serving in the tail end of Vietnam, loosing friends, relatives and experiences that were denied all of us, because of the loss of those men who may have crossed our paths in the years since... I don't feel the anger I used to. Now, I feel a sense of smugness, that there are those who will never understand, and I'm OK with that, because now, it seems they are coming out of the woodwork, pretending to be what they never had the guts to be... us.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Sep 29 at 2018 2:19 PM

CPL Brian Clouser — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:19:26 -0400

I can't say I have any respect for or use for someone that when to Canada or England( like Slick Wilie did) instead of serving. From the French & Indian War to OIF, someone in my family has served Not all of them in combat but they did serve. Now personally I think the draft should be re-instated-male and female with not getting out of it if you're in school with part of their duty overseas. Then maybe this cry-baby generation would understand how lucky they are

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2018 4:59 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Oct 2018 16:59:48 -0400

What about oblabla and clinton and I could go on and on.

Response by PO2 Joseph Fast made Oct 7 at 2018 12:10 PM

PO2 Joseph Fast — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 12:10:21 -0400

It is very nice to see another voice of reason. You already stated the reasons, but I'll repeat the most important facts.

1. It's Slavery where we get those we enslaved killed and we abolished slavery.
2. We use it on pointless wars. We enslave people and get them killed for wars that aren't important to the American people.
3. America has too many patriots, if there is a war that requires the draft, we won't require it because we have enough patriots to fill those ranks.

Again, you have already said everything I did, I simply highlighted what I believe to be the 3 biggest reasons why we should do away with selective service.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2018 4:07 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 16:07:47 -0400

I personally would rather serve with people that wanted to be there, gay, bigender or what ever at least they want to be there I have friends that wanted to serve but couldn't due to medical reasons I don't begrudge them they still support the military, if given a deferment ok as long as you join after, as far as those that actively ran away I have no sympathy, as I see it now having a draft would be useless this new generation are weak have no pride in our country the only thing they know about war is at their game controllers, they want everything but don't want to wok for it, freedom comes at a cost, I did my 31 years lost much but wouldn't change it

Response by SGT Fredrick Ramm made Oct 9 at 2018 12:09 PM

SGT Fredrick Ramm — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 12:09:02 -0400

Well, Edsel Ford (according to a mini-series legend) wanted to become an officer during WW I and Old Henry put the kibosh on it. Later Henry II was pulled out of WW II, to run Ford Motor Company...I would say, a win-win situation; he could do more to win the war head of Ford Motor Company, than being a (probable) Gunnery Officer in The U.S. Navy. Perhaps, Fredrick Trump, may have been thought along the same lines as Old Henry Ford. Who knows, maybe John Wayne, did more for morale, being a movie star, during The War, than actually serving?
During The Vietnam Era, I was slightly acquainted with a hand full of people who did JrROTC...basically those JrROTC Academies where night mares and it induced more people (back in those days) to stay away from the military. Getting a little taste of what you where getting in to, may have scared the bejesus out of many. I know one thing, yours truly, would not have made it through 5 years of New York Military Academy. I'm not putting it down NYMA, I wanted to apply for a job there once and I think JrROTC is a good idea to have at local high schools. I feel very trusting of my President, to have that experience; not like one character who sat in The White House, who was legally a Deserter and hanging around Moscow, while I was sitting on a watch tower in West Germany.

Response by PO3 B Al Eisen made Oct 11 at 2018 9:56 AM

PO3 B Al Eisen — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:56:02 -0400

When I was a teen, I agreed with the draft. There was no draft when I went in the NAVY. I ran into too many people who would try to light a match twice. If you want a good military, double all benefits and pay. Be honest about duty periods, etc.

Response by PO2 John Chalus made Oct 14 at 2018 2:13 PM

PO2 John Chalus — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 14:13:41 -0400

Most of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. In WW2 the majority of the men who served were draftees. I enlisted to go to Vietnam. I experienced some combat as a SEAL. That being said, I was upset at the “draft dodgers” at the time. My attitude has changed. It was a long time ago and it is time to let it go.

Response by PO2 Mike Keyes made Oct 17 at 2018 9:40 AM

PO2 Mike Keyes — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:40:17 -0400

Thank you for the question and well stated thoughts on it.
My opinion is that a draft is the ultimate insult to freedom; what could be less free than being forced from your home, your plans for your future taken from you, your choices stolen from you, and the real possibility of all the remaining years of your life being taken from you? How is that better than loading Africans on a ship and bringing them here to work against their will? In only one way; it is only for a limited time, assuming you survive.
And what is the logic of being angry with someone that did not want to go to some foreign jungle and risk dying there and so used the options that were available to them to not have to do that? The real problem is that the options existed, but not equally for everyone. Why shouldn't it have been simply 'you're drafted, you go'?
Shouldn't you be equally angry with people that didn't volunteer to go? Didn't their country need their service too? Didn't they also take advantage of an option to not have to go? How is that different than someone who's number came up but found an option not to go? Because a ball bounced one way their life and their honor is not in question?

Response by CMSgt Peter McDermott made Oct 25 at 2018 3:57 PM

CMSgt Peter McDermott — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:57:06 -0400

I don't care at all for those that flee or turn their backs on those that stand and fight. Should they be allowed to live in a country they refuse to defend? The rational thinking man would tell you it depends on the circumstances of which they were in. I can be very rational and sometimes I can't be. Should everyone serve in the military for a certain amount of time after school, I would like to think yes, but again if they did, they would not have a "SAFE" room to go to when the world was just too harsh! I still laugh over that one. Personally I did not want them in my military as they would just come in and politically correct everything, every facet, every rule, oh wait some of that is going on now. I stand corrected. It comes down to this, I can't choose who gets to stay here or who goes, but I am glad and honored I got to serve along side so many men and women in my 32 years and I would never give up a moment of any of it. As I said in the beginning of this I do not care for those who flee or turn their backs on us, but I would then and still today give my all for those that do!

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Oct 27 at 2018 10:33 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 22:33:55 -0400

I've been on both sides of the draft. I was drafted into the Army in 1966. Thought I had a four year student deferment but only had a two year deferment. Had to drop out of school with less that ten day left in the quarter. Lost the money I paid that quarter. Entered the Army and the only school I was offered was Infantry Officer Candidate School. Got my commission and got assigned back to Fort McClellan where I had taken Infantry AIT. One cycle we got a complete Detroit street gang which had sent to the Army by a judge. The only person who could control them was my Senior Drill Sergeant. The night before graduation, they robbed the dry cleaner and we didn't find out until they graduated. In today's society the judges would probably send all sorts of people to the Army to be "straighten out". There would be too much stress on the Drill Sergeants trying to straighten the momma's boys out.

Response by COL Mo Fenner made Oct 28 at 2018 8:42 PM

COL Mo Fenner — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:42:49 -0400

We need to first define dodging the draft. Draft Dodgers are those who left the country or refused in some way rather than report to duty. Someone who followed the rules and was excused from the draft because of exemptions was just that: excused. I don't see a problem with that. My problem is with those who were dishonest to get those exemptions. My Dad was career military so when I turned 18, there was never any question that I would register. he did two tors in Vietnam. I enlisted before the official Vietnam era was over and I am officially a Vietnam era veteran but not a Vietnam Veteran (someone who actually deployed). With all peace, love, and forgiveness, aside, being dishonest is never the right approach.

Response by SFC Jim Mergott made Oct 29 at 2018 6:45 PM

SFC Jim Mergott — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 18:45:03 -0400

No. It’s better that they avoided serving all together rather than running away on the battlefield.

Response by CW2 Larry Fisher made Oct 31 at 2018 1:06 PM

CW2 Larry Fisher — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:06:16 -0400

It's not that I could and you couldn't, it's that I did and you didn't.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Oct 31 at 2018 3:51 PM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:51:09 -0400

I was young during Vietnam and I remember the band wagon that most college students was jumping onto along with the protestors, but now during the 2000's I have yet to meet one that brags about being a protestor or draft dodger, except for Hillary and Bill Clinton. I do hear alot of Vietnam Vets that are proud of their duty and that they served and for those that never served I have heard regrets so I don't judge people they judge themselves, but always thank a Vet regardless of when he served.

Response by SrA Stephen Beasley made Nov 2 at 2018 12:50 AM

SrA Stephen Beasley — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 00:50:10 -0400

I believe mandatory conscription from 16-20 by every able-bodied male is the way forward. If for nothing else than to make a man out of a boy.⚔️✝️

Response by CW2 Donald Loughrey made Nov 2 at 2018 9:53 AM

CW2 Donald Loughrey — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 09:53:03 -0400

When we had a Draft it was due to our Elected officials deeming it necessary for the good of the Nation. Right or Wrong. We have done away with it....I served with draftees when I first enlisted in 1974 and remember when they were told they had a deadline for choosing to remain as RA Soldiers or get out.....not an easy choice for some, but we went to "VOLAR", Volunteer Army. I'm assuming the days of its necessity were over. We'll see. History has a habit of coming back on us uninvited when we think we have it all "figured out".
My thoughts are that for those who sought or received a deferment and remained in the US to pursue their endeavors...that was what the system allowed so no harm no foul....live it it. If you left the Country to avoid Service but sought to return because it makes you or others who want to end the controversy of the times you should be told to remain where you are and live with your choice. You were called, you left, you don't deserve to come back...regardless of what is thought of the Conflict today.
Just an opinion.
As to Politicians and their Service....or lack of it....it is just a small part of who they are what they offer. I would never vote for someone, regardless of affiliation, who left the Country to avoid serving and came back later. Otherwise...what are your policies and what do you offer? That determines my vote.

Response by TSgt James Warfield made Nov 4 at 2018 2:36 PM

TSgt James Warfield — Sun, 04 Nov 2018 14:36:07 -0500

Very well written article. I seem like 1st grader trying even post against your well rounded thought out points. For a little about my self and my family, my Great Great Uncle was USS Grant, I have a strong military history in my family, my real dad fought in WW2 and my step dad in Korea, and Vietnam as well as two of my brothers ( drafted ). I myself volunteered even though the draft was winding down.

I have no problem with someone used the system to avoid the military, where I have problem is when those same people try to become a Veterans friend or say they support veterans. I was not going to vote for Trump, not because of the him not serving, it was more of persona. I couldn't vote for Hillary as here was a person who said she was for the military and Veterans and if any Veteran who came in contact with her or her family, or knew some one who did, knew that Hillary had nothing but disdain for women and men in Uniform. So I voted for Trump, yea cringe at some of his tweets, and speeches not polished, how ever he has turned out to be a man of his word, a true supporter of the veterans and the military.

Now with all the above said I do not feel that some one who dodge the draft legally was wrong, I might question their valor, or their moral standing when things get go south. Also Vietnam was different war all together. My dad who fought there , was a hero in my books and came back to an ungrateful nation, he retired from the Military with honors, but died struggling day to day do to what he faced in the war, our country found every way to cut benefits in other words they abandon him. Even to day with all this talk about support veterans, it a slight of hand trick, support a new effort saying they are helping veterans yet don't acknowledge that what is paying for the new program or raise, is by taking another program away, or charging for services that were free or more fees that were small. Case in point. Retired military got a pay raise, however that was eaten up and more by the new co- pay for medicine that is received by mail from Express scripts. My medicine now cost some 27 dollars a month where it was once free if I ordered it through the mail. This is just one item and small one at that.

Now to getting down to serving in a conflict. When does it become un-American to fight in war in another county for people who don't want us there or has an effect on this country. The US military has for decades been the world police force. I have some one who wont fight for the freedom and liberties of this country, but I stand conflicted when it comes to fighting a conflict that is not ours, especially when this country has had a history way back after the civil war of not supporting it's Veterans. Every veteran should be supported by it's country. Especially war Veterans and Retired Veterans.

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Nov 4 at 2018 6:30 PM

CPT Brad Wilson — Sun, 04 Nov 2018 18:30:37 -0500

The deferments were legal and yes were abused but they have always been around. Joseph Kennedy Sr tried to get deferments for his boys (Joseph Jr and JFK) and after they defied him and joined the Navy he tried to get them assigned to safe stateside duties They both defied him again and volunteered for more dangerous assignments Joe Jr became a pilot and later died when his plane exploded and JFK volunteered for PT Boats and almost became a POW when his boats was sunk on a combat mission. Many who qualified for deferments didn’t take them while many of less character milked deferments. I don’t agree with the characterization of the draft is slavery but it is involuntary. On a side note I have a theory that probably can not be proved that the draft contributed indirectly to the Civil Rights legislation of the 50’s and 60’s I think those members of Congress that were drafted in the 50’s and served with blacks Hispanics Asians as young men remembered that when the Civil Rights Bills came before them and the experiences they had serving with these minorities, who they never would have met without the draft, made them want to make things fair and that is partly why those bills passed

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Nov 7 at 2018 8:03 AM

SGT Stephen Jaffe — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 08:03:15 -0500

I graduated from high school in 1964. I went to college for a semester, but I didn't do really well because I wasn't ready for college. One of the courses I took was ROTC. I left college in January 1965. I remember on ROTC instructor telling my I should stay in school until the US figured out what to do about Vietnam. He said we were probably going to get involved, it was going to be a 'mess'.
I checked out the other services. The navy was on a quota system and so was the air force. I didn't check out the marines because I had heard that they would 'send you back home' if they felt you wouldn't be a good marine. Who would want that to happen ?I enlisted in the army for four years. I was selected for the Army Security Agency. The recruiter said it required a top secret security clearance, and in the event I couldn't qualify for the clearance the four year enlistment would still be in effect, but the army would train me for anything they felt would best serve the army. It could be infantry or anything. You don't find out whether you were accepted until you graduated from basic training (Ft. Jackson). When you received your 'package' you would find out. I was accepted and assigned to Ft. Gordon to their signal school.
In short, in those days, the draft was in effect. Many of us had fathers who had served in WWII and serving was what guys did. It was expected. Many of us were mesmerized by JFK who said' Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for country'. My first tour was in Japan for two years, stateside for three months, Vietnam for a year. I volunteered for 'Nam'. I would do it again, even knowing the outcome. I learned a lot from my four years. I enlisted because I knew I needed to learn 'structure'. As far as the folks who 'dodged' the draft; that is something they have to live with. I suppose some are still wondering if they could have 'measured up'. I don't hold any animosity towards these guys.

Response by SN Dennis Reynolds made Nov 8 at 2018 5:51 AM

SN Dennis Reynolds — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 05:51:19 -0500

President Trump used the rules to go to college instead of war. I see nothing wrong with that. I see nothing wrong with him using rules to pay less taxes by using using tax breaks or loopholes to reduce taxes. It is not illegal to do so. If you don't want to fight in a war, why would I want you there when I can't depend on you to fight beside me ? To cover me ? Watch my back ? I think you (the author of the article) is right on every level here.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2018 6:40 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:40:31 -0500

As a 24 year veteran and father of a 22 year veteran I hold no ill will towards draft dodgers.

When my youngest son had to register for the draft he asked me if I would be terribly disappointed if here were called up and fled to Canada instead. My answer surprised him. I said, "No, would it disappoint you if I paid for your air fare?" I told him that just because we served doesn't mean we alway agreed with our government.

Response by PO1 Robert Johnson made Nov 13 at 2018 11:29 AM

PO1 Robert Johnson — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:29:10 -0500

I volunteered to avoid the draft and being assigned to an MOS that I didn't want. I was not dodging assignment to Viet Nam. I enlisted in the Navy to be a Hospital Corpsman, knowing that if I stayed in the Navy long enough that I would eventually draw an assignment to the 3rd MarDiv and assigned to an infantry unit in Viet Nam. I did, in fact, serve in Viet Nam but with MILPHAP N-7, a medical advisory team to the South Vietnamese Public Health Service.

As to those who ran away and went to other countries, mostly Canada, I have nothing but disdain. They were cowards. Some stayed in their escape nations but many returned to the USA after the danger had passed. These people are the worst or the worst. They returned to enjoy the freedoms fought for and paid for by others. Too many of those who served (58,000) paid the ultimate price for these despicable leeches.

Response by MAJ Alden Johnson made Nov 15 at 2018 12:53 AM

MAJ Alden Johnson — Thu, 15 Nov 2018 00:53:47 -0500

By choosing the equate the draft and servitude/slavery is clever, but I believe a bit disingenuous. I know that neither you nor I are old enough to have been drafted in WWII, although I received my draft notice in 1966 during the Vietnam war/conflict. President Clinton chose to join ROTC to defer his selective service (draft) status. When it came time to be commissioned, he became a 'draft-dodger' of the first order. He knew it when he penned his letter to his ROTC commander. President Trump, as far as I can determine, didn't dodge the draft, he utilized the deferments available to him legally.
As to your assertion that "If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers." Well, I can assure you that there were not enough volunteers to answer the nation's call to arms in many, but not all of our wars, which is why the draft is initiated. It was used in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and the last was during the Vietnam War. Equating black slaves fleeing to Canada with draft-dodgers fleeing to Canada is really stretching past the limits of reason. You are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else, but not to your own set of facts.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Nov 15 at 2018 8:58 PM

SGT Kyle Bickley — Thu, 15 Nov 2018 20:58:18 -0500

Yeah! 7 members of my family went to Vietnam. 2 came back in a box. 3 were drafted and 4 volunteered. To have a polical opinion is ok, to watch your neighbors and family leave to fight while you stand home and enjoy life isn't! I'll always have problems with people who did that, and then protest against my family for going! They got treated like dog shit (Vietnam Vets) when they got home. No matter how much love we gave them just happy to see them again, some ass wipe would always say awful things to them in public. That hurt them! So draft dodgers, yeah they can eat shit!

Response by SMSgt William Gardner made Nov 18 at 2018 10:16 AM

SMSgt William Gardner — Sun, 18 Nov 2018 10:16:57 -0500

This opinion is definitely understandable. I was actually talking to my son about this very issue. And, I asked him how he would feel if his daughters were drafted or even chose to join.
He said he would feel uneasy but if it was "what they wanted" he would support them.
I have often thought that people who can choose (or as you say found a legal rule) were doing what they were allowed to by the system.
I do not agree with those who went to Canada or, (anything that wasn't within the system).
It is sad that those who were privileged were able to avoid what most people could not. But that opinion goes with everything that someone who is privileged can obtain things that many of us can't. Like better houses, cars, education, legal assistance, and on and on. But as the article suggests none of this is illegal. It's just that many of us are not privileged and have to abide with life as we can.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Nov 23 at 2018 12:39 AM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 00:39:38 -0500

For those who "missed" serving due to legally following the rules, so be it; their loss. I also agree with Major John Bell that for those who ran, went to Canada or other places and hid, they should owe a price, for what they did was illegal. On the moral side, they put themselves above this great country and have no claim to any of its benefits. Any who have returned and can be identified should be located and forced to still serve in some way, even if it's community service time like some lawbreakers have to do, and such service would be rendered at no cost to the taxpayer; there could also be an option to return to the country they ran to and live there for the rest of their lives with a "no return to the USA" policy imposed.

Response by Maj John Rivero made Nov 23 at 2018 1:47 PM

Maj John Rivero — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 13:47:56 -0500

I was drafted did my time in Marines then reenlisted.I did see folks that should NOT of been drafted very low I Q. I was not a happy camper when Carter forgave all the guys who ran to Canada who got free education up to PhD. Many of them came back to USA and became College professors.I was enrolled in college and these professors made life hell for returning Vietnam veterans .

Response by PO2 Dave Cutsinger made Nov 25 at 2018 4:21 AM

PO2 Dave Cutsinger — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 04:21:53 -0500

People are allowed to make mistakes, especially early on in life. So if a young man avoided going to war either through educational deferments or exaggerated medical ailments, I can excuse that as immaturity, enabled by corrupt systems and fueled by a kind of wealth few of us will ever know.

However, if you avoided doing your duty as a citizen of this country, then you should at least have the decency to keep your criticisms of those who have to yourself.

Response by SGT Richard McArthur made Nov 27 at 2018 8:52 PM

SGT Richard McArthur — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 20:52:23 -0500

As a "hawk", on Vietnam and Iraq, I tend to be very short-tempered with those who actually "dodged" the draft i.e., those who received draft notices and did not appear, or those who deceived to escape. They encouraged the enemy to continue fighting, and inflict casualties on America.

The draft is not slavery. It has a termination; and is intended to exact service for a national purpose. The activity is, admittedly, dangerous, and we hope to limit it, but we may need it. So-the draft.

Response by Sgt Mark F Jindrick made Nov 28 at 2018 9:05 PM

Sgt Mark F Jindrick — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 21:05:58 -0500

It's over. Move on. Those that ran hAve to look at themselves in the mirror. Besides, it was politicians that sold us out. Should be rule #1, never let politicians looking for popularit clean up after a war.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Nov 29 at 2018 4:34 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 16:34:30 -0500

We should only be upset if the "Draft-dodging arseholes" are the ones teaching the next generation to disrespect the Constitution, the laws of this nation, and that only their beliefs are correct; no matter how flawed they might be.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Dec 3 at 2018 6:54 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 06:54:28 -0500

The world, (the U.S. at least), was a different place in the 50's and early 60's and you can't equate it with how things are today. They called us Baby Boomers, but we were really an extension of the WWII generation, with most of the values of our folks. One of those was military service, and pretty much everybody went. Till the 90's, if you aspired to political office, military service better be on your resume. Back in the day, you graduated high school and either joined or waited for "greetings." There was no choice in the matter. Your father, older brothers, uncles, cousins, and friends went, so did you. I know my folks weren't happy when I got my "invitation" from President Nixon, (neither was I), but not going wasn't an option. What others did is something they need to live with. Personally, whether one used the system, Daddy's money/influence, or just ran for the border, it all amounted to the same thing, "I'm better than you." It's been long enough, I don't harbor any grudges. That said, if you were one of the "privileged," do us both a favor, don't pick at the scab. You'll get your feelings hurt.

Response by Rhory Bader made Dec 5 at 2018 9:10 PM

Rhory Bader — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 21:10:36 -0500

Realistically speaking- pure logic here, no politics or emotional baggage or anything else- if they're willing to go to the lengths needed to properly dodge the draft? Chances are pretty freaking high they'd be worthless in combat. Now this isn't ALWAYS true- sometimes you get perfectly serviceable soldiers, even heroes like that one guy from WW1. Sometimes you get Maxwell Klingers.

But the majority of the time, you get someone who will ultimately be useless. For my part, I'd say useless persons should not be IN the military.

You may now add crude jokes regarding the brass and ranking enlisted personnel at your leisure.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Dec 7 at 2018 6:41 AM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Fri, 07 Dec 2018 06:41:15 -0500

I never signed up for selective service because I considered that "the draft" and don't think forcing people into the military was a good idea. Of course they made it so life would force you to join, same difference. Anyway , I joined the army a couple years later 1985 and 4 years after that at ETS and last admin clearing station, the "Army" would not let me out of the "Army" unless I signed up for the Selective Service! I refused, besides I was going into the NGAR for 4 years more anyway. There I was in uniform in that PERSCOM office refusing to sign up for S.S. Poor little PAK clerk (and cute) didn't know what to do, neither did multiple ranks of clerks. It took a GS-15(retired 0-6 I heard)explaining to me I gotta sign up to get out. LOL Clearing was always fun :)

So with my own situation i am not to judge,. As well ,we have been in many questionable 'wars", Vietnam was one, a bad one. We did win the Cold War in the end though and it took 1000 guys a year in the last years of 1980's to do that. Strange the Korean War is still around.People don't think about it now but we killed a lot of Chinese and we still got a Force there, and China is still there too

But I got one thing to say about Selective Service and the Draft and the state of it today. Why haven't women been put into the Selective Service? Many have pushed for "equal rights"and that needs to be one given the hypocrisy of the drive for women in combat arms and not having to. Until then, it is men who are discriminated against.. Selective service AND women's equal rights and women in combat , were ,and are, all selective jokes in this PC society of today. Yes I Go there , or no women in the combats arms.. yea cans of worms And yea, any MAN who wants to dodge the draft should be able to, they let women do it now. IMHO.
Past is gone/feelings won't change it, but what about now? and tomorrow?

Response by MSG Justin S. made Dec 18 at 2018 9:06 PM

MSG Justin S. — Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:06:59 -0500

Where would we be today without a military obligation for our citizens?

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Dec 20 at 2018 1:16 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:16:24 -0500

I was drafted in 1966 and had less than two weeks left in the quarter at tech school. I called my draft board and asked for an extension. The "lady" at the board told me that I had a two year draft deferment and it was over. I didn't know it was a two year deferment. I lost the money that I had paid the school. I ended up going in and fortunately got to go to Infantry OCS and flight school. I served twenty-eight years. At my 45th high school class reunion, I heard one of my classmates state that he got out of the draft by marrying his high school sweetheart shortly after she graduated. I decided that I would get even. Just before my 50th reunion, I decided to attend in my dress blues. I went all out and brought a new set. ( My original set shrunk in the closet in the past many years) I showed up at the reunion and the girls that had avoided me in high school were impressed. The guy rush up to me and said, "What a great suit, where can I get one?'" Before I could say a word, my Army Brat wife said, "You don't buy it, you earn it". The guy avoided me all night. The next year was my wife's 50th and just before the reunion, the guy's wife calls me and asks if I would wear my blues to the reunion. I told her I would and did.
Those guys made their decisions to avoid the draft. Those cowards that went to Canada, I don't have any respect. The draft seem to select a few and let others continue to live their lives. It was the luck of the draw for some folks. I've got other things to do rather than worry about those who dodged the draft.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Dec 22 at 2018 3:36 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:36:55 -0500

Yes! The draft was created for a purpose and to violate and dodge it was breaking the law. Why would we say it’s ok? I feel those who dodged it we’re cowards and should have been punished! I know the big names and still feel they we’re cowards.

Response by Cpl Johnathan Yother made Dec 23 at 2018 6:52 PM

Cpl Johnathan Yother — Sun, 23 Dec 2018 18:52:13 -0500

It seemed strange to me that, having enlisted and already gone through boot, I had to register for the draft when I turned 18, though I was already in the Corps. What, were they going to pay me twice? Come get me from my duty station to send me through boot again?

Response by CPL Sarah Verity made Dec 24 at 2018 10:51 AM

CPL Sarah Verity — Mon, 24 Dec 2018 10:51:14 -0500

Well, a lot of presidents dodged the draft: George W. Bush enlisted in the national guard, Bill Clinton was granted deferments as well as Trump (from what is being posted) so, if trump is wrong from getting a deferment, wouldn't it be the same for Clinton and bush (who ran to the guard?)

Response by CPL Sarah Verity made Dec 24 at 2018 10:55 AM

CPL Sarah Verity — Mon, 24 Dec 2018 10:55:11 -0500

There was a guy I met in the VA whose brother was drafted and he was turned away at meps because his brother said "you'll have to draft 5 more men just to watch me". It worked and he was found psychologically unfit for service. Some people don't belong in the military. Even if they're drafted, they'll do more harm than good.

Response by SPC Steve ChenRobbins made Dec 24 at 2018 2:34 PM

SPC Steve ChenRobbins — Mon, 24 Dec 2018 14:34:45 -0500

Words have meanings. Just calling someone a draft dodger doesn't make them one.
A draft dodger is someone who got called up in the draft and evaded his duty illegally by leaving the country or going into hiding. Just because you (the generic you) don't like President Trump doesn't make him a draft dodger, any more than taking all your legal deductions to avoid paying any more than you have to for taxes makes you a tax evader.

Response by MSG Justin S. made Dec 25 at 2018 9:13 PM

MSG Justin S. — Tue, 25 Dec 2018 21:13:40 -0500

In 1966 at Ft. Irwin I was assigned to the 2/34th Armor 4th ID. When I reported in, there was nobody there but just a few officers and NCO's. As a PFC I was assigned to B Co and given the job of Training NCO. Over the next couple of months we received a few more officers and NCO's. Then we received draftees and a few enlisted brought in by bus. We had to rebuild some of the WW II training sites and then do basic training for the new troops followed by Armor training. We then had 2 weeks leave and the Battalion went by ship to Vietnam. Prior to shipping out we received a full staffing of officers and NCO'S. I reverted to being an Armor crewman. Later in January 1967 I was promoted to Sgt on the battlefield. I can testify to the loyalty, dedication, and professionalism of those draftees. They served with honor and some gave their lives. Our 1SG was a WW II, Korea veteran. He made it crystal clear to us back at Ft. Irwin that the citizen soldier was the one that always defended this nation. After my 27 years of service I am in full agreement with that. Requiring able bodied men to perform military service just makes them have some skin in the game. It is no more an analogy to involuntary servitude than the government requiring everyone to pay taxes. I say bring the draft back.

Response by CW4 Jim Webb made Dec 27 at 2018 12:55 PM

CW4 Jim Webb — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 12:55:44 -0500

As I Vietnam veteran, I have very definite thoughts on this subject. You may or may not agree with my point of view, but for discussion here are a few:

Number One: Those of us who lived through this era all made our decisions based on the best information that we had at the time. Keep in mind that many of us were 18 years old and also that now, in retrospect, we did not have all the information that has come to light since. Maybe we would have done things differently, but who can say. You can second guess every decision you ever made, but what good comes from it?

Number Two: Those who avoided the draft and those who deserted from the military at that time somehow ended up all lumped together. I have some respect for those who stood on their principles and avoided the draft. I have none for those who took an oath and then retracted it.

Number Three: Some of the best soldiers I have ever known were draftees. These are the guys who didn't necessarily want to be in the Army but decided to do their best as long as that was their fate.

Number Four: Remember that, before the lottery, young men opened their mailboxes every day from age 18 to 26 with heart in throat, wondering if today was the day they would get their "Greetings" from Uncle Sam. Living like that was so stressful that many (myself included) opted to enlist and get it over with.

Response by SFC David Dean made Dec 29 at 2018 10:27 PM

SFC David Dean — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:27:51 -0500

Shared responsibility is the tome for this subject. You can offer the argument against the draft but, each citizen has the "same" amount of responsibility and accountability for our country and its attendant freedoms we "all" enjoy. At the center of your defense from a dictionary definition you are seeking to absolve segments of society of their portion of such responsibility of these attendant responsibilities. You don't give any sort of "alternative(s)" whereby these folks have some responsibility for enjoying such freedoms that a select segment of society must defend for all. In essence they under your analysis are given a proverbial free ride. That is not equitable in any way.

Response by SPC Manuel Ramosmoreno made Jan 2 at 2019 6:55 PM

SPC Manuel Ramosmoreno — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 18:55:56 -0500

Maybe more upset to those that in time of your nation needing of your service did not volunteer and made the draft a thing. I know maybe you did not agreed with the war, but your nation was in it so you were in it by being a citizen. Everybody want the benefits no one want to sacrifice for it. And in case you were wondering I was done with my first term in 99 when 9/11 happened and I re-enlisted for my second term cause I figure my nation, not my politicians needed my service.

Response by LT Thomas Smith made Jan 2 at 2019 11:52 PM

LT Thomas Smith — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 23:52:26 -0500

Very good points SSG. I must admit that you have given me a new perspective that makes a lot of sense. The main reason I have been for the draft is to provide the swamp people pause when they know their sons and daughters may have to fight in the next war they commit us to. Its a very valid reason for the draft but it's also a little naive to thing they won't be able to get their children a deferment.

Response by Lt Col John Culley made Jan 4 at 2019 8:29 PM

Lt Col John Culley — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 20:29:49 -0500

Vietnam and Vietnam era veterans should be upset that people dodged the draft and then were pardoned by President Ford. This didn't happen in any prior wars and allowed these people to then use various nefarious tactics like affirmative action to see that they got and kept the best jobs, especially on college campuses and in Democrat party political organizations. Pentagon bomber Bill Ayers is an example.

Response by Sgt William Collins made Jan 5 at 2019 10:01 AM

Sgt William Collins — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 10:01:03 -0500

I'm not sure I know what a draft dodger is. My wife and I were talking about her brother "getting a high number" and avoiding the draft. I didn't know what that meant, she had to explain to me that it meant that his draft number was so high he knew he would probably never be drafted so he could get on with his life.
I never got a number. I'm not sure I registered for the draft, I don't remember doing so. I just remember joining the Marine Corps one day during the Vietnam War and getting shipped to Parris Island a few days later. That was how I got on with my life
I suppose that was my way of dodging the draft. I decided how I would serve, no one else.
I don't give a damn how anyone else handled the problem. George Bush was called a draft dodger by his political opponents and he was a trained Air Force Reserve fighter pilot. His father was called "a wimp" by his political opponents and he was the youngest fighter pilot in the Navy in WWII, being unable to land on his carrier after having his aircraft shot out from under him. Trump is called a draft dodger for his legitimate educational and medical deferments and he has handled the defeat of ISIS and the management of our military far better than any president in my memory..
We are far better off with a volunteer military. That way it is a profession one aspires to and no one is accused of shirking for making other choices. This alleviates all the bullshit.
In my experience, and I served when draftees were forced to serve, people who don't want to be there generally don't do that great a job anyways. Whom do you want covering your back? A volunteer or a draftee?

Response by Sgt Heriberto Salinas made Jan 5 at 2019 6:46 PM

Sgt Heriberto Salinas — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 18:46:08 -0500

Let's face it, their are plenty of cowards amongst us. War is war is war! Just accept it. Now a days, we seem to be going to war over oil. Thank God for electric. If you don't believe in war or military service, then serve at a different level. No, not at a bar complaining about these terrible politicians running your County. Do what your buddy (Barrack Obama) said in commercials, volunteer!

Response by SGT David Racette made Jan 9 at 2019 12:56 AM

SGT David Racette — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 00:56:36 -0500

I agree with the Major, one other point that needs to be brought up is age. Trump was a young kid like the rest of us.I sure did some stupid things as a 20 yr.old and thats after being in Nam. Trump played by the rules, Now however he is a becon for the Military, (correct me if im wrong) Especially The Marine Corp. I have a lot of distain for People like McCain,Carey,and Even Bush ,who hid out in the Air Natl. Guard. I have to stop here,before I get to political, Thanks for the space

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jan 20 at 2019 4:12 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 16:12:54 -0500

As a Vietnam Veteran with 915 days in country---Let it go---I wouldn't have wished Vietnam on anyone.

Response by MSgt Horace Smith made Jan 26 at 2019 11:34 AM

MSgt Horace Smith — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 11:34:14 -0500

If you went to Canada to avoid the draft and I had my way, you'd still be in Canada. If you lied to avoid the draft - perhaps claimed to be homosexual, for instance - then I have no use for you.
If you followed the rules and didn't serve then I have no problem with you.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jan 26 at 2019 8:17 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 20:17:40 -0500

Hi Charlie. Hope all continues to go well for you. I had a lottery number of 41. I knew I would be drafted. I had a wife and 2 boys when I was drafted in September 1972. My boys were 2 years old and 3 months old at the time. For the vast majority of my 2 years I was either at Ft Leonard Wood or deployed overseas in Japan. I spent about 30 days home over that 2 years. When I came home to ETS out of OART I was spit at in an airport terminal. When I got home, I was greeted by my wife and we went to her parents home. That first evening home my wife, Diane, and her mother were preparing dinner in the kitchen. I was in the living room actually watching TV in English. I heard Diane talking to our youngest, now 2 years old. I heard her tell him to go get Daddy for supper. He came in to the living room, walked right by me, picked up my picture and took it to the dining room He had no clue who I was. Despite being separated from my family for almost all of two years, being hated so much by the citizens of this great country it was palpable, being called names and spit at, having my kids not know me......I never considered myself a slave. Even though I was drafted, my service was, in fact, voluntary because they were other options I could have taken. Jail was not an option. Canada was not an option. Since I had other options, it was not involuntary. While I may not have volunteered, I approached my new role as I approached all previous jobs. I was the best I could be. I made E5 in 19 months. I learned a lot from my service. I am proud of my service and would make the same decision today. Neither slaves nor indentured servants had the options draftees had. As to whether or not I resent draft dodgers, it depends on the situation. I don't like the idea that the rich or connected could avoid what the rest of us didn't. On the other hand, if they were conscientious objectors and have lived the rest of their life consistent with their beliefs, I not only don't resent them I respect them.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Jan 27 at 2019 12:09 AM

LTC James McElreath — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:09:40 -0500

The era of the Viet Nam Conflict was where a lot of BS was allowed. The rich, often found the various loop holes. Many joined the Guard and Reserves to get out of Nam as well. Then there were those that went to Canada. They have been exonerated for doing that as well.
But to be quite frank I do not care as it is the past! I personally think me need the draft, when at peace or war! There needs to be stricter rules this time as to the wealthy not going to war. If there is a loop hole it will be used, guaranteed. But President Trump is the Commander and Chief of the military. It looks as though he is currently doing his part now?! I believe he is a damn good job even though the AH's have fought him on each and everything he had to fix! The troublemakers are the career Democrats holding office way too long!! We need term limits just like the president, and work for their salary, no benefits after serving at our pleasure, the loss of Civil Service coverage..

Response by LTC John Griscom made Jan 27 at 2019 9:11 AM

LTC John Griscom — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:11:55 -0500

My brother went through four years of ROTC in college only to find out that he had a hip problem that disqualified him from serving. If he had gone in, he probably would have been medically discharged in about a year.

Response by CPL Wildon Mitter made Jan 27 at 2019 9:51 PM

CPL Wildon Mitter — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 21:51:48 -0500

President Trump followed the rules and his convictions. I can respect this. My problem is his condemnation of NFL players who take a knee to follow their convictions.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 8:37 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:37:34 -0500

When one uses their wealth and influence to avoid the risks shared by fellow citizens. Having used that wealth to avoid that risk, you go on to suggest that military prep school was like serving, and then go on to claim that you know more than the generals, yeah, it should be held against you. That makes him a lesser man.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 8:52 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:52:00 -0500

For a very long time I thought that dodging the draft was unforgivable. But the older I got and the more I looked at it from a different perspective I came to realize that it wasn't truly an act of cowardness but one of conscience. I volunteered for the military but that was my choice. During basic training we had a lot of draftees who eventually went to 11B school then deployed to Nam. They didn't want to be there anymore than the regulars but the did their jobs. The ones who left the country were those who believed that the U.S. Government was intruding on their lives. That is protected against in the amendments to the Constitution. And because we are soldier who took an oath to "defend the Constitution" we should look reasonably upon the actions of those who dodged the draft. Some fled the country, others used college deferments. But what has happened to those people? Did they enter into alternative government service? Are they contributing members of society? Or are they the "down and outers" who are homeless like many of our Veterans? Those who chose not to serve had that right and I believe that we were given the power of free will and choice to discern what to do in this life. So in conclusion, I have nothing to forgive them for as it is not my place to judge another person as I do not know their hearts, minds or motives.

Response by SP5 Dennis Dorsey made Jan 28 at 2019 1:55 PM

SP5 Dennis Dorsey — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:55:14 -0500

Draft dodger or patriot? everybody is entitled to their option, but Think that one of privilege should not be given a pass. I realize all the "yeas" and "nays" have their own reason, but as a volunteer during the VN war, I felt I was doing my part in protecting, not only our freedoms, but that of the country I was in.
I think the draft should require everybody and not a select few to serve for one's country. It should be a requirement to serve one's country, if only for 6 months or a year. There are positions for the one's who, for whatever reason, could be used as a support group. It should be a pride to serve one's country, whether war or peace time.
Just my 2 cents added here.

Response by SSG Dale London made Feb 1 at 2019 7:07 PM

SSG Dale London — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 19:07:50 -0500

As for me... I'm not upset with draft dodgers, but neither do I respect or like them. From my point of view, anybody who willingly accepts the benefits of a free society but is not willing to defend it is a potential scoundrel, coward and cad.
I will not go out of my way to make life hard for such a person but I sure would not trust them with anything important. They have already proven they are more concerned about themselves than anyone else.
I suppose this is the way I feel: the right or wrong of the conflict is not the question. Rather, it's a question of selflessness. To my mind, someone who dodged the draft is like that "friend" who picks a fight in a bar but who buggers off and leaves you hanging when the fists start to fly. Not cool.
There are lots of selfish people in the world and, as a Christian, I love them all. But do I "like" them -- not usually, no.

Response by SPC Angela Burnham made Feb 5 at 2019 10:35 AM

SPC Angela Burnham — Tue, 05 Feb 2019 10:35:54 -0500

He received a 1-Y medical deferment for heel spurs in 1968, after going to a private doctor and obtaining a letter describing the diagnosis. He's refused to provide a copy of that letter, identify the doctor who provided it,or indicate which heel in question was the bad one. It's funny though, that his diagnosis was severe enough to prevent being drafted, yet according to him, it was only a temporary and minor condition that cleared up relatively soon.

*However*, he's far from the first president to escape service in Vietnam. George Bush Jr. got to serve stateside in the Air National Guard, never deploying overseas, and Bill Clinton pulled connections with someone in ROTC to get away from the draft allegedly. Overall, he did things legally it would appear, and with his high draft number it would be unlikely he would have been drafted regardless. I don't like President Trump, but I'm neutral on this issue in particular.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2019 2:15 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Feb 2019 14:15:30 -0500

The military then and now are so different. The blasé attitudes that command held for soldiers lives makes me sick and if that was the choice people faced I'm not sure I can condemn a man for that. My family went (I'm third generation military) My father and mother joined voluntarily, my uncle was drafted, he came home and was spit on, divorced and abused. And knowing the history of the war, and the risks taken with the soldiers lives and blatant disregard by politicians and generals alike...I'm just not sure as person who has only lived in a voluntary force if I can fault them.

Response by Sgt Dale Boston made Feb 6 at 2019 1:11 PM

Sgt Dale Boston — Wed, 06 Feb 2019 13:11:38 -0500

in order to be a leader of men, first you must be a man with a heart, and than have a mind.
when you are born, the heart starts your life, when the heart dies no more life.
there are many positions in the military that are non combative that need to be filed by someone. if we trained and work together we understand each other now from a different perspective. if i have never walk a mile in another man's shoes i might never understand or care about what he feels. one thing i did in combat that the books said i did not have to do as a leader, i let my men know by doing, there was nothing i would tell them to do, that i wouldn't do myself. A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way.

Response by SGT Gary Sokol made Feb 7 at 2019 8:16 AM

SGT Gary Sokol — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 08:16:13 -0500

Your point is well taken, SSG Gerhard Seidel. I don't have a problem with those who never served, but what really ticks me off are those "chickenhawks" who deliberately avoided military service, but love to get excited about waging war, killing in the name of patriotism, and all kinds of macho BS. The worst offenders are the politicians who refused to go when called up, but are eager to start a war and send others to do the fighting.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Feb 7 at 2019 4:19 PM

MSgt J D McKee — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 16:19:36 -0500

I've changed my mind on this. At the time, I felt like they were all cowards for running and should suffer the consequences. I now believe no politician should have the ability to take young people by force and throw their lives away in a foreign war. If the US is invaded or to protect from invasion, by all means have a draft. We really should do what Switzerland does, make everyone do their two years of military training, but EVERYONE. No rich kids getting deferments for college. No religious exemption, either, if they won't do combat, make them be medics. By "rich kids" I mean anyone who can afford college, and if you don't understand why I say that, you don't know what it is to be poor.

I went the other way, my draft number was so high I'd never have went, but my future absent the military was flipping burgers or pumping gas. I no longer feel it cowardly to leave the country to avoid the draft under the circumstances of Vietnam or even Korea. WWII was different, we had been attacked.

Unrelated, but stirred up by the memories, I'm still waiting for Hanoi Jane to die so I can go piss on her grave. Anyone else feel that way?

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Feb 9 at 2019 10:51 PM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 22:51:42 -0500

I have my feelings for sure on this subject matter. My fist's really get curled up when someone has the nerve to "brag" to me how they got out of going in and that's by lying about their sexuality....They would say "oh I just told the recruiter I was a homosexual" and then laugh about it....It takes very once of my being to not bunch them out....That to me is a true coward. And to use that as an excuse is just wow.....I think every kid who doesn't have any plans after HS should serve. Provided they are of sound mind and health of course. Just my two cents here.

Response by MSgt James Lindsey made Feb 13 at 2019 7:48 PM

MSgt James Lindsey — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:48:07 -0500

I enlisted during Vietnam, served 20+ years. The points you make are very valid. Not everyone is military material. Service to your country should be voluntary always. There organizations like the peace corps and other groups trying to do good.

I saw the draft, I prefer the all volunteer force. I want someone that is there because they want to be. I have also seen the results of people joining then crying to get out because they couldn't take the discipline required to be a capable members.

Good article!

Response by CPT Douglas Rulon made Feb 16 at 2019 1:14 PM

CPT Douglas Rulon — Sat, 16 Feb 2019 13:14:04 -0500

I can accept education and medical deferments. If you leave the country to evade service I would be less willing to grant you forgiveness.

Response by MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow made Feb 16 at 2019 11:41 PM

MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow — Sat, 16 Feb 2019 23:41:30 -0500

I have no problem with the people that got deferments, but I draw the line when a person can't get a deferment and leaves the country. They should not be allowed back into the country ever. It disrespects the people that stayed and were drafted.

Response by SFC (CA) Roland Dell made Feb 17 at 2019 11:39 PM

SFC (CA) Roland Dell — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 23:39:11 -0500

I'm not sure I agree with draft dodging, as it is a matter of character to me, but there has always been a college out, provided you kept up your grades. On the other hand, I once knew a man who turned down an officers commision in Mexico, only to serve as a private in the jungles of the Pacific in WW2. I am retired Army, but missed the draft. When my time came to serve, I forced the Army to cut me orders to OEF, that alone won me the admiration of the Vietnam vets, (I was a technician) when most tried to get out of their commitment after 911. I will say that since Jimmy Carter let the draft dodgers back in the country without repercussion from running to Canada, the Army has become soft on AWOL cases, and without the political bite it once had. Heck, peoples feelings seem to be of greater priority today, than Duty, Honor, and Country were in the past.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Feb 19 at 2019 3:39 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 03:39:42 -0500

I am going to respond to this with a personal anecdote - My father, a Korean war veteran, and my Oldest brother. My Father, quite voicefully, opposed America's involvement in what he originally called "A French Problem" and was seriously considering Immigrating to Canada so his Oldest son was not drafted. Given his personal experience (He was a Marine at the Inchon Landing), he did not want his son to have the same or similar experiences that he did in what would amount to being against his will. Bottom line up front, Drafting, or conscription, is being forcefully pressed into service against one's will. There are times when such a thing is needed, Vietnam was not one of them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2019 8:05 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Feb 2019 20:05:37 -0500

I wasn't around for Vietnam. But you vote with your body. Just as in the Civil Rights Movement, people protested knowing what would happen to them. You have my respect for standing your ground, and I wouldn't want someone forced to be there covering me. So it was a win-win imo. But to the men who went even if they didn't want to, you have more than my respect, you have my thanks, because THAT. takes even greater courage.

Response by Cpl David Bientz made Feb 24 at 2019 4:38 PM

Cpl David Bientz — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 16:38:26 -0500

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection..... OVER RULED!
You say America has never had a shortage of volunteers. Every year you can't even find enough poll workers with a search warrant and they get paid.
You don't want someone fighting next to you who didn't volunteer? I can't believe I read that! I welcome ANY ALLY to join me in a foxhole, don't care how you got there. Regardless of his journey there, believe me when I say love of country & service goes out the window when you're fighting to save your ass. I would have thought you would have learned that in Iraq.
I'm one who was drafted and one that learned lessons from the Marine Corps that have served me well throughout my 48 years since my Honorable Discharge. I can't say I wanted to go, but felt it was my duty to go. Legal deferments I have no problem with. Cowards that ran to Canada deserve no respect in that regard.

Response by Sgt Ronald Burcham made Feb 26 at 2019 12:05 PM

Sgt Ronald Burcham — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 12:05:07 -0500

In 1962 I volunteered for four years in the Corps to protect the right of others to not serve. I did not enlist to help the government abuse, other foreign people although unwittingly I did in Vietnam. I believed General Walt when he told our squadron the government lies that we were there to fight communism and prevent the domino effect from occurring in Southeast Asia. I believed we were there to do that. I don't today.

Under the old natural or common law, the government could not compel anyone to do anything against their will -- PERIOD. That is what true freedom is. We no longer live under the common law. We live in the age of statutes where politicians decide what is illegal by decree. Consequently, using political pressure busybodies can get legislators to pass laws to compel others to act like the busybodies want them to act i.e., a person cannot self-medicate with drugs voluntarily; everyone has to have the government's permission to drink alcoholic beverages or to smoke cigarettes and we have to have government permission to live in our homes.

The writer is mistaken about America being the home of the free. We are not free people. We haven't been free since Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression against the South. Lincoln's government forced men to serve in the Army in direct violation of the common law embodied in our Constitution. That wasn't freedom. The IRS steals half of our income. That isn't freedom. The NSA snoops on all if our communication and keeps it on record. That's not freedom. We can't travel by air without our baggage and bodies being searched at the airport by criminal government TSA goons with badges parading as our protectors. That isn't freedom. We can't carry defensive sidearms or other firearms interstate without some bureaucrat's permission or fear of arrest. That isn't freedom. A business cannot open without reams of government paperwork. That's not freedom.

In a truly free society, no one has to ask the government's permission to do anything. Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." The government is instituted by us as our agent and as such, it cannot act to harm its masters We the People and that's even in the Uniform Commercial Code.

Response by SGT Lawrence Haney made Feb 27 at 2019 12:49 AM

SGT Lawrence Haney — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 00:49:02 -0500

As a Vietnam veteran in 1970 I accepted the movement to stop the war even while serving in country but if you ask me to defend draft dodgers...never. If you were classified 1A and opposed the war then you could have filed as a conscientious objector otherwise regardless of your political beliefs you should have served. Exceptional reasons to allow avoidance would be If you were classified section 8, 1F, (mentally or physically unacceptable). I felt then and I still feel that dodging the draft was an act of cowardice, fear of peer pressure, or just scared tactics. Today, I am more willing to give consideration to an individual who admits that they dodged the draft because they scared before I will accept a political excuse. As for the way we were treated when we returned...totally unacceptable. The fact that society currently wants to thank me for my service, I laugh to myself say if you really want honor the Vietnam Veteran than apologize and then say "Welcome Home". I also will never excuse Jane Fonda's decision to side with North Vietnam leaders. As a ambassador of America she should have never supported the north. I felt it helped festered and supported the growing hatred of the returning Vietnam veteran. I'm sure some will not support my position but I promise you more Vietnam veterans do than don't.
As a veteran, I ALWAYS say... "Welcome Home!"

Response by CPT Ricky Walters made Feb 27 at 2019 3:53 PM

CPT Ricky Walters — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 15:53:25 -0500

Educational deferments were necessary in order to insure an educated populous... All military academies appointees were deferred until they finished school, no one knew how long the war would last. President Trump went on to use his education to develop corporations that employed hundreds of thousands of people. Each job he created provided momentary support to the US Military through the taxes that generated. Money that would not have went to the military had he not received that education. Would America have been served better by having someone in a foxhole in Vietnam not able to function due to a medical condition?

Response by CPT Ricky Walters made Feb 27 at 2019 3:54 PM

CPT Ricky Walters — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 15:54:21 -0500

Response by CW4 Alex DeLorey made Mar 5 at 2019 8:08 PM

CW4 Alex DeLorey — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 20:08:37 -0500

If by dodge the draft we mean purposely evade the requirement to serve if so called to do so along with so many others, then I cannot help but I feel pity for those People. I can’t imagine what it must feel like to see family and friends answer the call to duty, some not to return. I can’t understand why someone would take such a decision but I can feel sad for them.

Response by SFC Freddie Porter made Mar 10 at 2019 10:42 PM

SFC Freddie Porter — Sun, 10 Mar 2019 22:42:43 -0400

I guess my question to you would be, does an individual have a duty to the nation he/she holds citizenship in to serve in the military “during a time of national emergency”? Okay, you can require someone to enter military service. The state can assign penalties if you refuse service when drafted but, are you really serving your nation if you don’t hold a philosophical view that as a citizen you do have a duty to serve your nation in the military when a draft is necessary.

Of course, if you disagree with the government of the nation you hold citizenship in, you can always apply for citizenship in a country you feel comfortable being a citizen in. Nobody that lives in the United States is under any requirement to retain citizenship in the nation and many, many people choose to become expats. That’s their right. The United States was created using western political philosophy as its foundation. That may not appeal to you. We ve seen that a few people actually prefer to join terrorist organizations instead of retaining their U.S. citizenship (as did people during WWII. (Do you remember the scene in Bad of Brothers where members of the 101st were talking with German POWs and found one of them was born and raised in Oregon?). So, this discussion spans a lot of time.

There are a lot of steps in between the two positions. They all need to be discussed in a courteous environment where each person is allowed to hold their own views while exploring other views.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Mar 11 at 2019 6:06 PM

SPC Earl Semler — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 18:06:38 -0400

The draft was needed and I think it is needed again. Some of the bravest men I ever met were draftees. The dodgers in my opinion brought shame on the process, especially when they were given a blanket pardon. They should have stayed in Canada!

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Mar 14 at 2019 6:27 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:27:54 -0400

We all make life choices. Some good and some not so good. Because of that - at this stage of my life I hold no ill will toward anyone who received a deferment or someone who dodged the draft. As part of the discussion maybe we should differentiate between a "draft dodger", and someone receiving a deferment. Heck, I am willing to bet young men today do not know the difference nor care.

Response by SGT Andrew Zais made Mar 15 at 2019 9:00 AM

SGT Andrew Zais — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:00:20 -0400

I have nothing but respect for those who went when called. The treatment of our Nam Vets is one of the most shameful periods in American history. I also respect the protesters for taking a stand. I have zero respect for those who ran or bought their way out and now talk about the glory of war!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2019 8:35 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 20:35:52 -0400

My only contention with draft dodgers are the ones who advocate for the U.S. military to engage in more undeclared wars like Vietnam. If you were eligible but weren't willing to risk your life to fight in a place like Vietnam, it's hypocritical to be asking today's young adults to do what you weren't willing to do when you were their age.

I'm opposed to the draft as I don't think the government should have the power to coerce you into servitude. If there aren't enough volunteers to fight in a war, it's probably a war only the politicians but not the people want to fight. I think the vast majority of Americans would be willing to fight if it means defending our homeland, but not to fight in a war that has nothing to do with our national security.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Mar 24 at 2019 6:05 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:05:33 -0400

No, I will not waste my time on why they elected to serve or not. At the end of the day, they have to live with their decision

Response by SGT George Duncan made Mar 25 at 2019 2:26 PM

SGT George Duncan — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:26:16 -0400

no because they helps get out of vietnam

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Apr 6 at 2019 11:58 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 23:58:26 -0400

Since Gen. George Washington, many POTUS' have served in the military and many have not. But when it comes down to it, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I faced the draft coming out of high school in 1971. Rather than getting drafted, I became a draft dodger. I enlisted 2 months after high school graduation. So did many of my classmates. Now with the all volunteer military, I feel a lot more young people are joining up to get job training, benefits and earn money. But recruiters are falling short on enlisting new troops because of universities closing their doors to recruiters. Playing the liberal cards of being anti military, anti war and pro peace.
President Trump ask for and got 3 deferments and 1 medical. Bill Clinton got a deferment for going to Oxford university. Barack Obame never got a deferment for any thing. George H. Bush joined the Air National Guard, but no one remembers that George H W Bush was in the CIA at that time before he became govenor of Texas. Now if a another draft is implemented, there is no going to Mexico or Canada any more. I believe several other countries in Europe, South America and Asia would be happy to turn away draft dodgers. True the military isn't for everyone, but so is the Peace Corps. You have to sign the Selective Service Act inorder to vote or get a federal job. Unless that has been changed. Ssgt G.Seidel uses the definition of draft as "Salvery" and "Servitude". There hasn't been slavery in this country sin e 1865. Servitude is either enfor ed upon some one or voluntary, and you get paid for your serving this country. This debate will go on by many of us who served in the military. The draft dodgers, who are now in their 80s and 90s, need not ring in.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Apr 7 at 2019 12:11 AM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 00:11:37 -0400

As a post script to this subject. I know a few people who were draft dodgers. They still live in Canada and have canadian citizenship. I have no ill feelings towards them. But they could have stayed in the US and faced their punishment like adults (like Mohammed Ali did) but I do not respect them like I respect Mohammed Ali.

Response by SGT John Price made Apr 15 at 2019 11:55 PM

SGT John Price — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 23:55:46 -0400

I am not trying to dodge the question, but seeing as how I wasn’t alive during Vietnam or serving during a time where there was an active draft I don’t think I can hold a grudge for anyone’s decisions made during that time. I am proud to have volunteered to serve and wouldn’t want to serve next to anyone who hadn’t volunteered. Everyone I served with all chose to be infantry or serve in combat roles and knew what we were getting into and I believe we were more effective and efficient because it was our choice. I wouldn’t want to serve next to someone who didn’t want to be there or have my back.

Response by 1stSgt George E Corwin made Apr 19 at 2019 11:20 PM

1stSgt George E Corwin — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 23:20:31 -0400

In reality, I have zero respect for draft dodgers, shirkers, cowards, Liberals, etc.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Apr 25 at 2019 12:47 PM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:47:21 -0400

There are 1000 shades of gray in almost any argument in regards to the Vietnam Draft and those who avoided it or those who enjoyed protected status. In regards to the draft, and draft only; there were many ways to receive a deferment or be constituted as not meeting the Services requirements or needs. Medical and Educational Deferments, followed by Religious Accommodations were frequently employed. Then there were those who went to ground or to Canada. However for the majority of the discussion today, it is mostly a philosophical exercise since a General Amnesty was granted to the evaders.

And Ironically, maybe the funniest aspect about avoiding service revolves around a person who may of been eligible for a medical deferment based on a genetic medical condition which took the life of Woody Guthrie. Reportedly by Arlo Guthrie himself, in song, He was deferred from being drafted due to a moral character failing. So as the next Thanksgiving rolls around, and if you aren't feeling too full, or tired.... for 18 and 1/2 minutes, you can sing along to Alice's Restaurant.

In regards to Mr. Trump, yes, he probably had lots of connections to avoid being drafted. He has to live with that aspect of himself. For that matter, even Mr. Mitt Romney along with Mr. Bernie Sanders had multiple draft deferments. Supposedly they both were over draft age when their numbers came up.

Much of what I address is open sourced information, and you can find more on line. Pretty much it is up to yourself to determine if the shills running for high office have the moral character you desire to serve as POTUS, and to vote as you see fit. I personally did not vote for Mr. Trump, however he is the President and the position of his office receives the Respect it is accorded. He is however in my estimation a better choice than many running from the opposing party.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2019 12:12 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 12:12:54 -0400

Food for thought for sure. I have to Nam tours 67-68, 72. Going back for my second tour was very hard on my family and if I didn’t have so much of my life invested in my career I think I would have taken my separation from the Army.

At that time I was more upset at the protesters and dodgers than anyone.

But as time goes by my total discuss is for our leaders especially LBJ, Bob MacNamar(?), WCW and that gang than anybody else.

I’ve come up with the five things wrong with the RVN war; WRONG war, reason, place, time and leadership.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Apr 27 at 2019 1:34 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 13:34:19 -0400

There's draft dodgers and then there's Bill Pantywaist Clinton who not only dodged the draft but fled the country to live in the Soviet Union, seeking shelter from the enemy to avoid the draft.

Response by SPC Terry Martin made Apr 28 at 2019 9:00 AM

SPC Terry Martin — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:00:25 -0400

Yes

Response by MSG Lonnie Averkamp made Apr 30 at 2019 3:29 PM

MSG Lonnie Averkamp — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:29:17 -0400

While the original opinions of this conversation are well-stated, I must disagree with a basic premise: The Draft is not Slavery, it is an Obligation of Citizenship. An obligation can be postponed or deferred, but it is still there - if it is REALLY needed (Example: World War, or absolute necessity for the Nation's survival) it can, and should be, "called in".

The Ancient Greeks had a system (varying slightly by City-State) that essentially said, "If you don't defend the Nation, you are not a Citizen - you are only a resident". Residents enjoyed the protections and financial benefits from living within the City-State, but they did not have the right of representation in the Government.

While our Republic has differences from the ancient Republics of 2,000 to 3,000 years ago, it was founded upon many of the same basic principles. While we grant citizenship prior to enforcing the requirement to defend the nation, the obligation still exists - if it is ever called upon.

If someone obtains a legal deferment from serving in the military - so be it. I have an uncle who had a Marquette Law Degree, and was drafted into WWII as a private (he was told that he was "overqualified" to be a commissioned officer.) He survived the War, but I feel that it would have been a shame for someone with that much education and potential be have been blown away as cannon fodder.

People who run away from the Draft have no honor. People who intentionally create a lot of dependents to protect themselves from the draft are of the same cloth. But those people who have legitimate deferments for education or critical jobs are not dishonorable - they will just never be a member of the great fraternity of honorable, selfless individuals who went through the crucible to be forged into a warrior/team member who was willing to sacrifice 3 years or 4 years of his/her life - or life, altogether - for the security of this nation.

Response by SFC James Asbill made May 2 at 2019 10:32 PM

SFC James Asbill — Thu, 02 May 2019 22:32:53 -0400

Legal things are legal things .. those that ran off to another country like Canada is another story altogether ...

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made May 6 at 2019 6:20 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Mon, 06 May 2019 06:20:06 -0400

Can't remember if I already weighed in on this, so forgive my being redundant. I was invited to serve by Pres. Nixon pre-lottery, when the draft was "y'all come." Wholly different mindset then. Whether or not you wanted to go didn't enter into it. Your dad, brothers, uncles etc all went before, so did you. Regarding those who refused, that's on them. If they don't bring it up, neither will I. It's been 50+ years. I, for one, am not going to generate an ulcer worrying about it. I do find it interesting that many who excoriate Pres. Trump for his actions gladly pulled the lever for Pres. Clinton, twice.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2019 12:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 May 2019 12:54:57 -0400

Some of the best soldiers in my time were National Guard. I volunteered because I did not want to be drafted after being asked to leave college. Some of my friends went to Canada and a few are still there. You have a sense of obligation to almost everything in life and mine was paying back a debt that someone had covered for me years before and those who are doing the same today. Blame is a waste of energy and I can judge myself and have no right to judge others. I lived with my choice and perhaps they lived with theirs.

Response by SGT Jim Wiseman made May 6 at 2019 9:02 PM

SGT Jim Wiseman — Mon, 06 May 2019 21:02:59 -0400

Appreciate the honesty! Interesting point of view as well. I gotta respect the thought that went into this post as well. Your opinion is your opinion and can't say I disagree with it at all. I believe that's why it is no longer an option, as they don't want to force anyone into military service. It's always been voluntary to enter Service, but yes, I know that it was an option offered by most judges, but I'm not sure if it was something "encouraged" by the government at that time. It puts a new spin on the compulsory nature of the draft.
I know that's more of a "lottery," but is indeed forced and obviously the reason many men ran away. Those men I have less sympathy for. I understand that so many are frightened of going into a combat zone. But if you let that fear rule you and cloud your day-to-day actions, it puts you and others at risk. Now, I was older when I joined in 2009 and was training to go to the 'Stan. But, I knew I had joined the Infantry willingly and knew that was where I was going to be. People I had just began reconnecting with from high school on FB kept asking if I was scared. I just told them that I knew what I had signed up for and just accepted that it was where I was going to be. You acknowledge the fact that I might die or be injured, but accept it as well. That's where draftees run into trouble and become trouble for those who volunteer.
It was found to be true in 'Nam where draftees generally didn't care and were aggressively lazy and bad at their jobs. Same thing happened when the Stop Loss program was utilized in Iraq. While trying to retain experienced personnel who had volunteered, they retained them and extended contracts when the SM was trying to get out at the end of their contract. Same result. The best program seemed to be what was done after that, which was to extend the enlistment age to 42, at least in the Army. That's pretty much how I got in. I joined when I was a few months shy of 37. I volunteered for the Infantry. The Army saw that there were a lot of men trying to enter the Service after 9/11 and couldn't because they were beyond the age limit. After the collapse of the housing market and the general economy in 2008, I was one who decided to go that route after recently losing my job. I'm sure others were like me. That opened up a larger number of individuals who were willing to enter into the military and "do their part." Simple solutions often work the best. Six years worth of individuals then expanded the pool of candidates of volunteers to fill in the numbers required. They can keep the draft! Even if women are included, it's going to increase the number of unwilling and unmotivated individuals (although, you'd think that being interested in staying alive would be motivating) serving and bringing others down.

Response by CPL Verne Jenkinson made May 6 at 2019 9:41 PM

CPL Verne Jenkinson — Mon, 06 May 2019 21:41:32 -0400

Unfortunately, there are at least 2 premises in your post that are not accurate. You state that there would be enough volunteers to fight a war if the US was invaded and that there has never been a shortage of volunteers but in at least one war, that being the Civil War, there were not enough volunteers in the US Army as early as 1863 when the first draft of Union soldiers was instituted. Without the draft there would have been far more slaves "heading for Canada", or perhaps nowhere at all in the event of the Union losing. There would most likely not have been enough servicemen in WW2 to fight on 2 fronts without the draft either, and I seriously doubt whether the government or the American public felt the need to "re-think the necessity of that particular engagement" after the attack on Pearl Harbor . What you've also forgotten is that there was a great shift between the ideals and patriotism of the 40's and those of the 60's. There were men in WW2 that committed suicide when classified 4F because of the shame of NOT being able to serve, the objectives of WW2 were far more clear cut and defined than in Vietnam and the draft in WW2 was far more equally applied across social strata than it was in the Vietnam era where the well-to-do could get into the National Guard or obtain deferments far more easily than lower income Whites and Blacks. In addition leading citizens, especially in the entertainment industry, volunteered in droves in WW2 and any other attitude was considered unpatriotic and un-American. The entertainment industry of the 60's gave us Hanoi Jane. You've also neglected to mention that a draftee can still choose to elect Conscientious Objector status and serve as a non-combatant. If we're being "philosophically honest" then you already know that there was a great deal of difference between the circumstances of President Trump's medical deferment and the circumstances of President Clinton's going to Canada, but that brings us back to my point of the well-to-do finding far easier "outs" than regular folk but that was the fault of the government and the military for allowing it. In short, the draft is a necessity in certain circumstances.

Response by SN Jim Mackey made May 8 at 2019 11:45 PM

SN Jim Mackey — Wed, 08 May 2019 23:45:14 -0400

I totally agree with you. I volunteered and it was the greatest thing I've done outside of my two loving children.

Response by SSgt David Gannon made May 9 at 2019 12:47 AM

SSgt David Gannon — Thu, 09 May 2019 00:47:58 -0400

I agree 100%. I am a Vietnam vet. I wasn't drafted I enlisted prior getting a draft card. I enlisted with some friends and felt it most likely we would called up so why not see if we could get ahead of the game. We had our physicals with some draftees and other volunteers. The physicals were very thorough. Some my friends didn't make it. Quite a few folks were rejected. I never like the term draft dodger because I remember the look on some of the guys rejected. It's like the govt took their manhood away

Response by Amn Albert Harkins made May 9 at 2019 9:00 AM

Amn Albert Harkins — Thu, 09 May 2019 09:00:05 -0400

I am from Arkansas. Bill Clinton intentionally and willfully was a successful DRAFT DODGER. Why do we question Trump when the question about Trump should be directed even moreso at Clinton?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2019 10:36 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 May 2019 10:36:00 -0400

I think people who dodged to help protect a fellow American, sits pretty low in my books. It's not the defending the flag or the reason why we are at war. It's that fact that you could have saved Americans with your act, to help protect your brothers and sisters. The fact that your reason to stay at home could have been the deciding factor on why one or two or even 10 Americans died. Your decision to not help protect, led to a chain reaction that caused a platoon to get wiped out. We have a leader who dodged the draft view their opinions about war and also give their opinions on a certain politician who did get captured for three years and call them a coward. People who dodged the draft should think about the impact they did not leave on the soil they call home. They should think about the impact they did not have every time the flag is flown in the honor of Americans. The people who dodged the draft should think about the fallen they they refused to help save in their time of need. I have several oversea battles in my life and will gladly do more, as long as I get the opportunity to wear the flag and do it next to my fellow Americans, even if it means my life.

Response by SPC Darcel Depweg made May 14 at 2019 11:34 PM

SPC Darcel Depweg — Tue, 14 May 2019 23:34:00 -0400

Well said. and I agree. It is one thing to volunteer, which I and many do/did. it is a whole another thing to force/draft someone into something they may be too young, or not prepared to do. No hard feelings from me for anyone who avoided the draft - however they did it.

Response by SPC Rostyslaw Caryk made May 15 at 2019 6:12 AM

SPC Rostyslaw Caryk — Wed, 15 May 2019 06:12:49 -0400

That may be, but the key in your discussion appears in the end. "I want people fighting next to me who volunteered". I was drafted and served. I found that the difference between the "US" vs the "RA" was not evident once you were in, other than not thinking much about reupping. Furthermore, if there was a draft now, we would probably not be in so many wars nor for so long if all members of society were paying the price rather than a select few who volunteer. And for a person who "dodged the draft", it really boils down to how they did it: legally, without lying", or dishonorably/illegally/lying. And that latter clearly applies to our President.

Response by SN Jim Mackey made May 15 at 2019 9:00 PM

SN Jim Mackey — Wed, 15 May 2019 21:00:42 -0400

One has to ask, would you want to go into combat with someone that doesn't want to be there? I was in from 1974-1978, saw a lot of scared guys. let them run to Canada I say.

Response by SGT Adam Wolf made May 16 at 2019 8:26 AM

SGT Adam Wolf — Thu, 16 May 2019 08:26:16 -0400

My only issue is when those that did not server claim to speak for veterans. If you did not serve whether you dodged the draft or not, you cannot understand what we went through. If you did not serve you cannot speak for veterans. You should give us platforms to speak about what we went through and what our needs are but you can't speak for us. I am not bringing up particular names because I don't want this to devolve into a political argument.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 16 at 2019 9:47 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Thu, 16 May 2019 09:47:47 -0400

Donald trump.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 16 at 2019 10:26 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Thu, 16 May 2019 10:26:17 -0400

We require national service. That is my opinion. Women too. Exceptions yes. Too many kids. Bs. To fat bs. EEO. Us citizens only.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made May 20 at 2019 4:31 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Mon, 20 May 2019 16:31:11 -0400

If you want to live your life being sour and bitter, yes, Be upset at those who dodged the draft.

I grew up in a community of draft dodgers. But I volunteered in 1988. I disagree with their choice and I think they missed out on the opportunities I continue to enjoy long after I left in 1991. But as only 10% of those registered for selected service were actually activated, I don't see it a big deal. Plus it was almost 50 years ago. I choose to live my life going forward and I am proud of what I did to serve my country.

Response by SPC Deadreau Mack made May 21 at 2019 1:51 AM

SPC Deadreau Mack — Tue, 21 May 2019 01:51:44 -0400

While I may not like it, the legalities do exist and they allowed some to defer. This is what we have fought for "FREEDOM". Now to speak on those that went to Canada...While I don't know the reasons because I was not in their shoes, I totally agree that if it was for self-preservation they should not be allowed to live in a country they refused to fight with or at least stand up for. We may not agree with the reasoning of the war in Vietnam but there was American bloodshed and when our "HEROS" came home they were not greeted as such. I couldn't even imagine being treated in this manner by the very people you dream of coming home to with mortars, machine guns, bombs and shrapnel consuming your every waking moment as a 19-year old forced to go to a foreign land, pick up your weapon and shoot someone you didn't know anything about. I said it when I was served and I will say it now. Although I am a woman of color, I think everyone should serve no less than 2 years in the military. Yes, it can be considered a draft or slavery or servitude but it will give some much-needed discipline and respect. It can also reduce the many tensions in our own country by causing us to be more tolerant of those around us and understand other cultures and customs. By the way, has anybody paid attention to this generation coming up now? They can use some serious discipline. Thank you to all my brothers and sisters that have served and paved the way for me. I SALUTE YOU!

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made May 24 at 2019 12:07 PM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:07:49 -0400

Whether the President dodged the draft or not, the fact remains he was elected to his current office. As such we have a set of laws in place that will limit him to not more than two terms and the voters can put him out of office in the next general election. Now the question is become are we going to follow the laws or have another revolution?

Response by CPL Shawn Griffin made May 28 at 2019 10:57 AM

CPL Shawn Griffin — Tue, 28 May 2019 10:57:10 -0400

I like the volunteer system.

Response by Sgt Kristopher Stine made May 30 at 2019 11:10 AM

Sgt Kristopher Stine — Thu, 30 May 2019 11:10:15 -0400

I volunteered as well as dedicated myself defending this great country of ours for 11 yrs thru the end of the Cold War and part of Desert Storm. Knowing at any time during those 11 yrs of service that everyone serving could be called upon to fulfill our sworn duty to defend our country.
The ultimate sacrifice that our brave brothers, sisters, fathers, and mothers made defending our freedom have no voice as to how they'd feel about Trump being a "Draft Dodger", but I'm sure it wouldn't be favorable. For me, someone who buys his way out of serving his country because of "Bone Spurs" makes me sick to my stomach.
Here's why. The year before I enlisted in the United States Air Force, I had open heart surgery to remove a tumor from my heart and once I was cleared for duty, I still enlisted because I was proud to have the opportunity to serve my country. Now that I'm 100% service connected disabled, I don't look back on my time serving my country with disdain, it's just the opposite because I'd gladly do it again as many times as I would be called upon.
I know there have been many more that had the same opportunity to serve during the draft and those who chose not to or buy their way out like Trump. The only reason he's a target for being a draft dodger is that he was. He is by definition the living embodiment of what a Draft Dodger is. Trump has stepped on so many people to get to where he is over the years, that his dad should've paid to have him deferred because of athletes feet, not bone spurs.
I want to make clear that I always vote for who I feel the most qualified to hold any office on the ballot. It was a shame there wasn't anyone who I felt was qualified to hold the office of the Presidency on the 2016 ballot and we got stuck with someone who doesn't know the meaning of sacrifice, service, or honor.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2019 12:13 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 May 2019 12:13:14 -0400

No. Dont worry about what others do. Live your life!

Response by 1LT Lawrence Lackey made May 30 at 2019 12:22 PM

1LT Lawrence Lackey — Thu, 30 May 2019 12:22:00 -0400

I believe most making the " draft dodger" comments are not referring to the moral nature of a draft but to the lack of character in having someone else, that might be less privileged, take their place. I graduated from college in 1968 with four educational deferments like our current president but then I manned up and volunteered for infantry OCS and hauled an M16 around for three years.

Response by Sgt Pedro Perez made May 30 at 2019 3:26 PM

Sgt Pedro Perez — Thu, 30 May 2019 15:26:56 -0400

Well that is a real hard question as we are who to judge that we fight and defend so everyone can have freedom of choice so long as it doesn't interfere or break any laws of our great country. But on the other hand they have their own conscious to deal with and hopefully its enough.

Response by PO2 Russell "Russ" Lincoln made May 30 at 2019 5:25 PM

PO2 Russell "Russ" Lincoln — Thu, 30 May 2019 17:25:16 -0400

I too served, for 15 years. In speaking of the draft for Viet Nam it was a different time. I remember neighbors being drafted and coming back changed. The news was full of war coverage and protests.
I don't begrudge those who avoided the draft, legally or by dodging.
What Mr. Trump did with his bone spurs was questionable. I have worked in orthopedics and was taught that this condition can cause pain or not, but is treatable. That's as far as I will go with that tact.
You can draw your own conclusions.

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made Jun 1 at 2019 2:12 PM

SGT Eliyahu Rooff — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 14:12:27 -0400

I don't really have much of an issue with people who managed to avoid the draft by legitimate means. When rules are put in place, exceptions are provided in those rules for a reason, and there's nothing wrong with using those exceptions if you qualify for them. What I do have a problem with are people who lie or fake disabilities to get out of going, and people who avoid the draft themselves and later act like warhawks, eager to send other people to do the jobs they refused to do.

Response by SSgt Richard Kensinger made Jun 2 at 2019 2:38 PM

SSgt Richard Kensinger — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 14:38:47 -0400

I served from 1969 to 1973. I joined voluntarily after college. A number of my college buddies went into teaching to enjoy additional deferments. I joined due to a sense of responsibility, not because I believed Vietnam to be a direct threat to our democracy. Understand, this conflict was quite despised and detested. we lost so much. I chose the MOS of medicine as I'm not sure I can take a life, but i can save many! And I was disallowed to be a pilot, co-pilot, and navigator due to my partial color blindness.

I am bitter that some avoided the draft. 30% of soldiers were conscripted; and not all served "in country". And keep in mind that around and after the Tet Offensive, we had over 600,000 military personnel there.

And consider that 1 in 5 who serve as combatants do the actual fighting. The remainder provide necessary support. Some one with purported "bone spurs" has a wide range of specialties they can be placed in!

Obviously, I can intimately relate to this issue.
Rich

Response by PO2 Lawrence Smith made Jun 4 at 2019 11:29 PM

PO2 Lawrence Smith — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 23:29:15 -0400

I would have liked to see those who fled the country and were later pardoned serve at least 2 years in some form of public service at the same Military pay scale I earned while I served. The law was the law and they broke it.

Response by PO2 Kenneth Holmes made Jun 6 at 2019 10:02 AM

PO2 Kenneth Holmes — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 10:02:33 -0400

To each their own . But I don't have to like it or them

Response by SGT Daniel Durkovich made Jun 8 at 2019 11:52 PM

SGT Daniel Durkovich — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 23:52:03 -0400

The draft was a different time in our country. People had different reasons for not wanting to serve especially during a time of war.

Response by MAJ Bruce Davie made Jun 10 at 2019 12:33 PM

MAJ Bruce Davie — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 12:33:14 -0400

In my opinion, I used to be angry. However, over time, I pity them & their current situation. They have to live with their decision to run-away...just as I do with mine. As far as I know, no one has welcomed them home. Food for thought.

Response by PO3 Adam Stoflet made Jun 11 at 2019 3:34 PM

PO3 Adam Stoflet — Tue, 11 Jun 2019 15:34:51 -0400

So I have been working on this little speech for a while so I apologize if I am a bit to philosophical and idealistic of it feels incomplete or nonsensical it’s a work in progress.

Drafts and conscriptions have existed since the foundation of nations. The have been used thought the ages around the world by all manner of rulers and systems of governance. Are they an archaic tradition or perhaps an outdated concept passed down through the millenniums maybe, but where would we be if they never happened.

Be it by Royal proclamation of a King, By decree of a Divine Emperor or a call to arms by a duly elected representative all of them at one point or another have used this system to marshal troops.

Why did they use this system because warfare without the loss of life is just a game. Games can be won or lost without consequence except to one’s ego but if wars are won or lost the world changes. To be liberated from a tyrant or made to bow before a new god or to be chained & shackled by the new laws penned by the victors. After all to the victor goes the spoils.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 9:08 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:08:15 -0400

At the time of the war, a citizenship in the United States of America had a price. When those we had elected called for us to pay that price, most did.
We saved many South Vietnamese, killed many more North Vietnamese, but we still saved many so that they may live free.

Response by PO1 Alan Syler made Jun 18 at 2019 8:59 AM

PO1 Alan Syler — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:59:29 -0400

I had to get letters from two doctors to get in the Navy in 1968, and I was worried they would not take me. They did and I served a little over nine years.
I have nothing but disdain for those who went to Canada or claimed some lame medical issue to get out of serving. Trump is no different than Clinton. In fact, in a lot of ways he's worse.
Bring back the draft! If some guy has bone spurs, give him a desk job, supply or some non-combat role, but make him serve. Service to our country is a necessity.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Jun 21 at 2019 11:17 AM

PO1 Don Gulizia — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:17:42 -0400

I will just say this, if you are "outraged" by Pres. Trump's "draft dodging" then please show the same contempt for Pres. Clinton and VP Biden. If you feel the Pres. Trump didn't do anything wrong, please do not change that position for Clinton or Biden. Just try to be consistent with your outrage.

Response by LTC John Bush made Jun 23 at 2019 7:23 PM

LTC John Bush — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:23:20 -0400

The draft was and is a body tax which has been used for centuries around the world. I am glad we no longer use it but know it will be imposed again if necessary. I was raised during the draft and everyone was expected to do their part. True you can make a nice argument it is involuntary servitude just like you can make a case income tax is illegal confiscation, Neither argument will get you anywhere. All young men in my era had to plan everything around the draft. You could not get a good job when you graduated high school because no one wanted to train someone that would leave for 2 years. Your choices were going to college, volunteer for the draft hr get married and have a kid right away. If you got a college deferment any your grades dropped you went right away and when you graduated you got drafted. There are notable exceptions which get a lot of ink but that is how it was for most of us. Personally, I think most of our problems with the education system stems from the cowards that hid out in academia indefinitely. They used their positions in academia to preach a leftist ideology to justify their actions.

Response by SSG Jeff Goldsberry made Jun 27 at 2019 9:47 AM

SSG Jeff Goldsberry — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:47:11 -0400

Great Points all. I know a lot of guys who used those deferments and avoided the draft. I also come form a family with a long line of military service. Most of those I know who avoided it have told me they wish they had just gone and spent their time in the military. They look back now and see the "Brotherhood" they'll never be able to be a part of.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 27 at 2019 4:31 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:31:51 -0400

I am dismayed with Trumps claims that he is a military genius and knows more than generals due to JROTC, his description of his personal Vietnam as avoiding the clap, and him calling out a dying veteran.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 29 at 2019 10:54 AM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 10:54:18 -0400

I have more of a problem with those who ran away to Canada. I have less of a problem with those using opportunities in the law. To some degree I have some respect for Muhammad Ali, who stood like a man and did the prison time, although I disagreed with his position, instead of running like a coward.

Response by Cpl Alex Moore made Jun 29 at 2019 3:07 PM

Cpl Alex Moore — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 15:07:30 -0400

The draft is, and as far as I know a complete choice, depending on era. The World War II draft was not, but by the time Vietnam came around it was. Now the draft is called Selective Service. You are not required to sign up, however, there are consequences if you choose to be unwilling to serve your Country in time of war. I will leave you to research those as they are extensive.

I do understand your arguments and points, however, in the case of President Trump I completely disagree. If the President truly had a medical deferment, he would never have needed the education deferments. The fact that he used both either tells me he magically grew bone spurs in 3 years or he is a liar. The second side of that is the education deferment is meant to be used by someone who'd draft number has been called but is in college. The intent is to then finish college and enter the military as drafted. Again that is not what President Trump did, nor President Clinton. This is the action I have a significant problem with. My Grandfather did not want to serve in the military, however, when drafted he lived up to his responsibility and served. President Trump did not, and as far as I am concerned that makes him a liar, a coward and unfit to be President.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 9:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 21:59:01 -0400

I appreciate your objective approach to this topic.

When it comes to evaluating matching circumstances, I think folks are more likely to make excuses for those that they favor, while demonizing those they don't. Heck, on RP, even the hallowed veteran status isn't even enough to protect someone's military reputation from other servicemembers/veterans, if they hold different political views.

Unfortunately, being objective about topics of this type is difficult, because military folk tend be very biased because they were either drafted themselves or volunteered. Personally, regardless of their motivation for volunteering (unless they are an inside threat) I would much prefer to serve with other volunteers.

Response by SGT Steve McFarland made Jun 30 at 2019 10:00 PM

SGT Steve McFarland — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 22:00:36 -0400

I'm not upset at those who dodged the draft, but I respect those who served far more than draft-dodgers. I didn't have to serve, but I did, and I am proud to call myself a Veteran.

Response by CW5 John Vassar made Jul 7 at 2019 9:59 PM

CW5 John Vassar — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 21:59:09 -0400

Please note that Selective Service is as much keeping strategic resources out of the Military, as much as bringing an orderly, reasonable amount of resources coming into the Military/Strategic Industries and/or Personnel Supporting the Military Efforts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System
https://www.sss.gov
The writings of General Lewis and Ellen Hershey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Blaine_Hershey

Selective Service System - Wikipedia

The Selective Service System (SSS) is an independent agency of the United States government that maintains information on those potentially subject to military conscription (i.e. the draft). All male U.S. citizens and male immigrant non-citizens, who are between the ages of 18 and 25 are required by law to have registered within 30 days of their 18th birthdays,[2][3] and must notify Selective Service within ten days of any changes to any of...

Response by SN Walt Boyer made Jul 13 at 2019 6:04 PM

SN Walt Boyer — Sat, 13 Jul 2019 18:04:28 -0400

I find this post most interesting as I am a student of our Constitution. Our military is and was designed to be an all voluntary force. Forced conscription is an attack on the liberty our Constitution prevents the federal government from taking from us. The issue about having enough volunteers to fight a war takes care of itself if that war is Just and Constitutionally declared. No one wants to volunteer to fight wars that presidents have unconstitutionally declared. All our "wars" since WWII have been unconstitutional, as it was not Congress that declare war. I believe our last Constitutionally declared war was actually our last Just war, and was the reason there was no shortage of volunteers (regardless that there was still a draft)

Response by FN Kevin O'eads made Jul 14 at 2019 7:32 PM

FN Kevin O'eads — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:32:47 -0400

Finding a doctor to give trump 3 deferments would have been as easy as writing a check. In fact this has happened quite a few times in our history. Being wealthy and connected has its benefits for some.

Being unable to serve his country for "bone spurs" Trump later had a doctor write an assessment for him (that trump dictated) saying if elected he "would be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency".

Actually I don't believe trump would have been physically capable of graduating basic training, and if he did he certainly would have been discharged quickly for either mental incompetence or health reasons.

I personally have no respect for those who use power and influence to avoid the service. Trump is a draft dodging coward.

Response by SGT Larry Braswell made Jul 22 at 2019 1:31 PM

SGT Larry Braswell — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:31:30 -0400

Most of these were young and ignorant of concepts like Honor and Integrity. Well acquainted though with egoism and self service. Upset with them? Nah... Just another kind of civilian. As long as they stay away from the halls of government and go about their lives not impacting anyone else, who cares? Try to make it into any place in government, then they should be derided and shamed to the maximum.

Response by SGT William Cannon made Jul 24 at 2019 1:00 PM

SGT William Cannon — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:00:13 -0400

PERSONAL FOOTWORK SPEAKS VOLUMES...COWARDICE??? YEAH!!! EVERY MAN THAT WAS DRAFTED WAS FRIGHTENED...GUYS THAT ENLISTED DID SO TO AVOID 'NAM...IF YOU WERE LUCKY ENUFF TO CATCH A GIG IN THE NAVY OR AIR FORCE, YOU'VE GOT A NEW CAREER...

Response by PO1 Gerald Sutton made Jul 30 at 2019 9:50 PM

PO1 Gerald Sutton — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 21:50:13 -0400

It's not that he got medical deferments, it's that his dad paid for them. His own words were , my vietnam was protection from std's.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2019 11:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 11:21:29 -0400

Why would we be upset with people who avoided serving in a war that had nothing to do with national defense, nothing to do with safeguarding freedom for the United States, and was started by our own government lying to us? I say pardon the lot of them. It was morally right to resist the draft. It will always be morally right to resist the draft so long as we have a government that can't be trusted.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 2 at 2019 10:44 AM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 10:44:41 -0400

Yes

Response by 1stSgt Timothy Phillips made Aug 4 at 2019 9:46 AM

1stSgt Timothy Phillips — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 09:46:41 -0400

I am not going to write a long soliloquy all I will say is that everyone who could pass the physical should have been drafted. Those traitors who ran from the draft to Canada and other countries should have been tried upon their return for treason and put in jail for at least ten years. Jimmy Carter pardoned them. I have no use for him or them. I fought for this country, because it is my country! Anyone who was a coward and did not join or get drafted does not belong in this country. That includes Jimmy Carter and the sorry pukes he gave amnesty to.

Response by MAJ Mark Steskal made Aug 13 at 2019 10:12 AM

MAJ Mark Steskal — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 10:12:47 -0400

I was at a Cigar store in Columbus, Ohio a number of years ago, talking to a Vietnam Vet about the merits of Universal Conscription. I argued that unless everyone served, the burden of freedom would be unequally born by the less privileged, leading to a classist society. He referred me to Robert Henlieinn's book "Starship Troopers." In the book the premise of "Franchise," for service is explained far better than in the movie. Franchise means full citizenship priveleldges. Those who served, have earned privileges which are unavailable to those who have not paid the price (whether in wartime or not). I just began reading the book again the other night (after my wife and I had a debate about why none of our children had served (save a son-in-law)). I think it a sound incentive, and a means to ensure that those who are calling the shots are invested, having paid their dues in advance.

Response by SPC Louie Campagna made Aug 17 at 2019 5:44 PM

SPC Louie Campagna — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:44:16 -0400

I was a draftee and most of the men in my unit were. I trusted them with my life, even if they did not volunteer for the Army or Vietnam. What bothers me is the draft dodgers or evaders who now that they safe in old age turn into War Hawks.

Response by CSM Tony Blair made Sep 4 at 2019 2:57 PM

CSM Tony Blair — Wed, 04 Sep 2019 14:57:45 -0400

No,and yes
The vets from NAM use to tell me, they thought about it, but didn’t, they say it’s takes a special person to go somewhere knowing your could die.
But if your number was called, go do your duty and come home.
Everyone had to make a choice, and there was no fence to stand on, either you went, or you ran.
Back in 1985, I was doing awol recovery, we pick up a older man that was awol from NAM.
I hold no I’ll will to a person who ran, he has to live with that, for the rest of his life.
AATW

Response by SSG Herman Bauman made Sep 6 at 2019 2:46 PM

SSG Herman Bauman — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 14:46:10 -0400

I located some of the guys I served with in Vietnam. One of them re-enlisted after a period of civilian life and went on to become a 1st sgt with 34 years under his belt. He was drafted. I have met several "Lifers" that were drafted.

Response by SSG Herman Bauman made Sep 6 at 2019 2:59 PM

SSG Herman Bauman — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 14:59:48 -0400

Draftdodgers
A Brief History

On March 24, 1958, Elvis Aron Presley, the “King of Rock and Roll,” was drafted into the U.S. Army and served his country in Germany, on the front lines of the Cold War. Millions of Americans have been drafted and responded obediently, and, of course, millions more have served voluntarily. On the other hand, many American men of draft age or at least of age to serve during a war or conflict chose not to defend their country with their own blood but stayed on the sidelines, only later to pretend to be patriots. Most of these phony patriots also kept their own kids out of the military as well. Here 10 such individuals are listed.
Digging Deeper

10. George W. Bush.

Former President of the United States, this macho warhawk avoided the draft during the Viet Nam War by getting a valued slot in the National Guard, done only with string pulling as all slots had been filled. The icing on the cake is that he even failed to serve that commitment properly and was allowed to leave service early. Privilege must be nice…

George W. Bush only ranks #10 because he at least kind of served, and we want to make it absolutely clear that there is certainly nothing inherently dishonorable about serving in the National Guard, although the actual nature of his particular service has been called into question by impartial journalists around the world. For more information on this entry as covered by mainstream media sources from The United Kingdom to The United States, please see “The Curious Mystery of George W. Bush’s Vietnam War” by Suzanne Goldenberg and Oliver Burkeman of The Guardian and “George W. Bush’s Military Lies: The Real Story About the Undeniable Service Gaps He Got Away With” by Paul Rosenberg of Salon. For an encyclopedic overview of this controversial topic, please see “George W. Bush military service controversy“.

9. Rudy Giuliani.

This guy once said recently of President Obama, “I do not believe the President loves America.” Well, neither does Rudy as he repeatedly sought and got deferments from the draft, having strings pulled to keep him undrafted even though he had a 1A status (highest, unrestricted draft category) and a high draft number. (How he pulled this off is unknown.) Despite hiding from the war, Giuliani is quite vocal about wanting to use American force every time the subject comes up. Additionally, following the September 11 attacks, he falsely reassured citizens and ground zero workers that the air in New York was safe when it was indeed full of asbestos and other contaminants. Mayor “Mr. Law and Order” also used police officers getting city overtime to drive him to his mistress and provided her with a city police chauffeur service.

8. Mitt Romney.

This conservative leader of the Republican party does not hesitate to talk tough about throwing around American military might and bitterly criticizes President Obama for failing to be more decisive with America’s enemies. For himself, however, he fled to Europe when of draft-eligible age to work as a missionary, tooling around France on his bicycle, returning to the U.S. when it was “safe.”

7. Ted Nugent.

This tough-talking, gun-totin’ rascal told the magazine High Times in a 1977 interview that he avoided the draft during Viet Nam by taking crystal meth and pooping his pants. He confirmed this story to the Detroit Free Press in 1990, saying he used the inside of his pants as his bathroom for a week to purposely fail the physical. Nugent later denied this, saying he got his deferment by enrolling in college, but that is not true as his actual deferments for 1969 and 1972 were for physical, psychological or moral reasons. It seems he strongly believes in our rights, just not that they are worth fighting for on his part.

6. Bruce Springsteen

He acted wacky at his induction physical to get a 4F rating and therefore be able to avoid the draft, something he told Rolling Stone in 1984, saying that his thoughts at the time were, “I aint going.” Do not be fooled by his unemployed veteran’s lament “Born in the USA.” “The Boss” did not serve and wanted it that way.

5. Newt Gingrich.

President Clinton’s archenemy and most vocal critic, Gingrich pulled the same trick to avoid the draft that Clinton did (see below) and topped off his hypocrisy by engaging in an extra-marital affair while lambasting Clinton for the Monica Lewinsky incident. Of course, this chickenhawk is all gung-ho about committing U.S. armed forces to combat anywhere and everywhere, just not when it involves him or his kids.

4. Bill Clinton.

Although not as hawkish as some of those listed, Clinton did use American military in Yugoslavia and Somalia although he himself avoided the draft during the Viet Nam War Years by pretending to sign up for ROTC, a college-based military officer training program, a legal but sneaky ruse at the time. The is the type of thing a weasel would and did do. Oddly enough, he gained the presidency at the expense of George H. W. Bush who had served as a pilot during World War II and even got shot down. In 1996, Clinton was reelected after he beat World War II hero Bob Dole. (Obviously, military service means little when the election of presidents is concerned.)

3. Muhammad Ali.

This “Mr. Tough Guy” heavyweight boxing champ refused to serve when drafted even though, by his own admission, his new religion (Nation of Islam) did not preclude it. A couple of the men who would go on to beat Ali for the championship, Ken Norton and Leon Spinks, served in the Marine Corps. (So did I.)

2. Dick Cheney.

An outspoken hawk of a congressman, Secretary of Defense and Vice President, Cheney repeatedly obtained waivers to avoid being drafted while younger but did not hesitate to send other people’s kids to war. It is believed by many critics that Cheney was the driving force behind the disastrous decision to invade Iraq in 2003. Thanks, Dick.

1. John Wayne.

This All-American icon of the silver screen starred in more movies than any other leading man in movie history, often playing a brave and patriotic soldier, sailor, airman or Marine. In reality, this outspoken “patriot” failed to serve in the military, despite being only 34 years old when the U.S. entered World War II. His real life lack of commitment did not match his “uber-patriot” persona, and he also declined to even run for political office despite pleas from the far right. Character Note: Wayne was somewhat of a racist and thought the Native Americans were “selfish” for wanting the land that white people “needed.” He also spoke harshly about African-Americans, decrying welfare culture and said “I believe in white supremacy, until the blacks are educated to the point of responsibility.” A real American hero…

Bonus: Donald Trump

Although he attended a military prep school from 8th grade through 12th grade, he applied for and was granted a few deferments from the draft and then sought a medical deferment for “heel spurs,” although he does not currently remember which foot was affected! (The problem seems to have magically disappeared once he was past draft status.)

Response by SFC Luis Serrano made Sep 6 at 2019 3:01 PM

SFC Luis Serrano — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 15:01:10 -0400

I think that the draft is a safety net. There will not be shortage of volunteers in a true national emergency. In an age of equality, draft should be extended to women too. Now, there's a controversy!

Response by PO1 Richard Nyberg made Sep 8 at 2019 4:05 PM

PO1 Richard Nyberg — Sun, 08 Sep 2019 16:05:40 -0400

I was, I lost too many friends in Vietnam to not be upset with them and also the Deserters too. When I was stationed in Germany in 1968 to 1971 we had a Deserter who came to my unit to turn his self in. He had gotten his $10,000 reup bonus and deserted to Sweden. He finally wanted to come home after all those years.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 9 at 2019 1:59 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 13:59:39 -0400

To answer A-politically, anyone who had a legal deferment had exactly that, they are not dodging. They are following a legitimate path for exclusion, particularly medical. If someone lies, using legal exclusions unlawfully they are dodging. Regardless of who that is, their wealth or station in life is immaterial. Now do you want my true, personal opinion-I think we should still have a draft, every able bodied person(make or female) should serve some term. I think service should include, Military’s, coast guard, peace Corp and the like. In today’s society it is much harder to gain exclusions that are unwarranted. Thank you all for your service.

Response by AB Jimmie Roan made Sep 11 at 2019 11:55 PM

AB Jimmie Roan — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 23:55:40 -0400

it depends on who you mean by "we", i don't believe everyone has the right to look down on that person, especially in the general way it's presented. i joined in 1959 and was one of the lucky that saw no combat. there is also in the article where it says and put our life in danger, my thoughts are more concerned with killing others rather than being in danger. i don't think im the only person in the country that if faced with the possibility of being in combat could honestly say what they would have done.

Response by AB Jimmie Roan made Sep 12 at 2019 12:15 AM

AB Jimmie Roan — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 00:15:49 -0400

sorry about the extra comment, but after reading most of the rhetoric by those that seem to claim the honor of serving this country, i just wanted to mention that most of the comments were about the article, i resent the constant flow of personal opinions about politics and personal attacks at every opportunity, youtube music videos, movie clips, race videos, news stories of tragic events, nothing escapes these people that think they are experts on every event they mention. we have events that happen as recent as days or weeks ago that millions differ on, i fail to understand how any one person can know what a pow did so many years before they were even born. one comment even complained about someone with a medical deferment, not sure of most but i would not want to go into battle with a deaf person or someone with failing vision, a bad heart, spinal defects etc. so just wanted to share my opinion. thanks

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2019 1:01 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 13:01:59 -0400

I have no issue with those who used legal means to avoid the draft. My father was 4F due to a medical condition over which he had no control. Does that make him a "draft dodger"? My baby brother, who quite likely would have never been born had my father been sent to Vietnam, is one of the top heart surgeons in the country. He is a pioneer in the field of pediatric heart surgery. He has saved hundreds of lives so it probably worked out for the best.

Response by CPL John McCulley made Sep 12 at 2019 1:29 PM

CPL John McCulley — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 13:29:35 -0400

You say that we should pay commensurate to have enough people volunteer & if we still don't get enough then rethink participation in the conflict. First of all, during times of war many people would say tou can't pay enough to pue your life at risk. First & most importantly, freedom is not free & with all of our freedoms comes responsibilities. Secondly, if service is voluntary, even with increased pay, something additional, such as patriotism, is necessary for many people to risk life & limb. But, finally, a much bigger problem comes to mind. WWII. We couldn't have afforded to pay "commensurate" salaries with the size Army (including the Air Force at the time), Navy & Marine Corps we needed to fight the war. Money was tight, as were other commodities, even with bond drives. That brings us to your false choice, that the government should rethink participation in that conflict. Even before the attack on Pearl Harbor, we couldn't have stayed out of the war much longer & after there was truly no other choice, unless of course you agree with the one no vote in Congress to the Declaration of War. I agree that by far the majority of the time we should not have a draft. A professional, volunteer Army is a better Army, but we can not rule out a draft if needed. The future of our nation is too important! The needs of the many override the needs on the one or the few.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Sep 29 at 2019 2:11 AM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 02:11:53 -0400

There was never an active draft in my adult lifetime. That being said I have no experience on which to form an opinion as the military I was part of in some combat operations was entirely volunteer.

Response by PO2 Michael Martin made Sep 29 at 2019 8:24 AM

PO2 Michael Martin — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 08:24:52 -0400

SSG Gerhard Seidel, I found your post very interesting indeed. I'm a Vietnam vet and was in the middle of the people who dodged the draft. You make some excellent points. For me, a kid, I couldn't understand why these people were doing this to our country. I volunteered even tho the draft was still around. At first I was so mad at these people. How dare you not fight for your freedom and expect to be treated equal. I remember coming home from deployment, I grabbed a cab and we started to talk. One thing led to another and the guy pulled ovr and told me to get out of his cab because he hated war mongers. That was then and today my stance has eased because I'm no longer that kid. I do think for myself. I did what I thought was right at the time but so did they. As far as the draft goes. My opinion is that things have changed a lot sense Vietnam and jungle warfare. Now I think we have the technology to use artificial intelligence which keeps our men and women numbers down that engage in combat. I think we dont need the draft and not because I against it , because I dont see a need for it. Me, I'm much better than I was 50 years ago. My mood has softened on all that. Maybe it's age or maybe it's just right.

SK2 Martin

Response by CSM Thomas Ray made Sep 29 at 2019 9:26 AM

CSM Thomas Ray — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 09:26:32 -0400

I don't judge anyone by what they did that many years ago, "apparently a lot of Congress do", I did and said a lot when I was younger that I am not proud of. I served in Viet Nam, and also three tours in the Middle East, and I could care less about what someone did back then, only what they do right now. I can say that if they didn't serve, they missed a great opportunity, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Sep 30 at 2019 11:18 AM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:18:41 -0400

No. As a Soldier, ask yourself this question: Would you have wanted this coward covering you in combat? They did us all a favor, Trust me.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Oct 1 at 2019 1:10 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 13:10:08 -0400

I have a high school classmate who bragged about getting out of the draft by marrying his high school sweetheart. I decided that at our 50th high school reunion that I was going to wear my dress blues. My original set had shrunk in the closet. How do clothes shrink in a closet?? :-) I bought a new set and everything that I needed. Went to the reunion and the girls who avoided me in high school, I was now their hero. Made me feel better. If a guy didn't get drafted for some medical issue, I just go on in life. It's the guy who brags that irritates me. The Army changed me for the better. BTW I was drafted with a heart murmur. The induction doctor agreed that I have a heart murmur. :-) Still have the murmur.

Response by SGT David Petree made Oct 1 at 2019 2:49 PM

SGT David Petree — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 14:49:18 -0400

at one time I would have said YES . now not so much . I joined the ARMY when it was NOT poplar to do so . I did this so somebody elect would not have to go, among other resins . I saw it as my turn to stand up for our country at the time, right or wrong . scared yes I was . moma was happy when my orders read Germany instead of Vietnam . 2 years after getting to Germany I came across a water that wanted to know if the draft was still on. I said no why. seems he had been in Germany so long that the German government wanted to draft him into there Army !! he ran from one, now he would run from another. at one time I would have been angry, but not now. I had 9 y 11 m active 16 y ng, it was a good life .

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Oct 1 at 2019 11:57 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:57:39 -0400

I have a friend who left the US and went to Canada to avoid the draft and the war in Vietnam. He has been a Canadian citizen and lived in Canada ever since then. I met him in about 2012 in Uganda while we were both doing military type contractor work for our respective governments. Ironically he had retired from the Canadian army. After we got to know each other the fact that he had left the US way back when he was 18 to dodge the draft came up. I asked him why he left and he said that then he was young and dumb and that he now wished that he had not done it. Most of us did really dumb things when we were teenagers. So, in this specific case, I choose to forgive and forget. Who am I to judge a man who turned out to live a life of service to his country.

Response by SPC John Cowhig made Oct 2 at 2019 9:28 AM

SPC John Cowhig — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 09:28:28 -0400

I believe that Mr Trump is considered a draft dodger because he , in his final deferment, FRAUDULENTLY avoided the draft.
Trump's father had a tenant ,that rented both his office space , and his home from President Trump's father. President Trump at the time was winning multiple trophies for athletic achievement , around the same time of the note for " Bone Spurs" being written . How was he able to win all of these awards for sports while at the same time being disabled by " Bone Spurs"?
The doctors daughters have said that the doctor got preferential treatment after he wrote the " Bone Spurs" note. The Doctor's rent did NOT go up , when all of the others did.The daughters say that their father told them that it was just a note to keep him from going to Vietnam.
Interestingly enough , IF the bone spurs were real , President Trump would have evidence even to this day that COULD be proven with a simple x ray. Is it interesting that this president who has been caught lying so many times, has the evidence that can prove that he really had bone spurs , even to this day , that could be proven with a simple x ray , and he has chosen not to do so?
While we agree on the draft being a bad thing ( I'm a Vietnam Era Vet) , it did have a function in that it kept the voters more engaged with our foreign policy. Across multiple demographics, those of income , or race families had to think MY KID MIGHT DIE if our country does something stupid in foreign policy. Of course the richer folks had more access to deferments for school . I think a more engaged population is better for our country , as is evident by what happened in our last Presidential election when half of our registered voters did not care enough about their country to vote.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Oct 2 at 2019 10:01 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 22:01:37 -0400

I wouldn't call the draft, "slavery". A slave doesn't get paid and is a slave until he dies or escapes. You give up two years of your live to make your nation secure and doing a service to your fellow citizens. Those who left the country and went to Canada are cowards. President Carter turned his back on those of us who served when he allowed the draft dodgers back into our country. I was called a "baby killer" in 2005 during a visit to San Francisco. There was a group of us standing outside our reunion hotel. Minding our own business, when the woman started calling us names. BTW I was drafted with a heart murmur. :-)

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Oct 2 at 2019 10:49 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 22:49:55 -0400

Also SSG Seidel, did you ever study McNamara's Project 100,000 ?? I was a training officer at Fort McClellan, AL in 1967-68 and one cycle we got a complete Detroit street gang. Their court judge gave them a choice of going to jail or going into the Army. They chose the Army. For some reason the Army didn't break up the gang in basic training. We got them in Advanced Infantry Training. The only person that they feared was my senior drill sergeant who had "soldiered" his way out of Fort Leavenworth prison. He had killed a man in a bar room brawl in Germany and was sentenced to Fort Leavenworth. I learned a lot from him. If a troop came to him with a problem, he would move mountains to get that problem solved for that troop.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 6 at 2019 3:44 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:44:50 -0400

Those who got college deferments and draft dodgers became buddy fuckers as it reduced the pool of draftees. When Daniel Inouye went off to war, his father said if you die, this is a great nation and given us much.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Oct 6 at 2019 10:13 PM

SPC Ron Salsbury — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:13:01 -0400

Trump is not the only President who did not serve in Viet Nam, see below for further details:

Bill Clinton’s Draft Records from the Freedom of Information Act files show he was a Pardoned Federal Felon
* Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the draft. Given Selective Service Number 3 26 46 228.
* Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968.
* Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969.
* Bill Clinton dishonors order to report and is not inducted into the military.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07, 1969 under authority of Col. E. Holmes. Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment.
* Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969, as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) ‘registrant who has failed to report … remain liable for induction’.
* Bill Clinton’s birth date lottery number is 311, drawn December 1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction, is INELIGIBLE!
* Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40.
* Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a fugitive from justice.
* Bill Clinton receives pardon on January 21, 1977 from Carter.
* Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President.
All these facts come from Freedom of Information requests, public laws, and various books that have been published, and have not been refuted by Clinton.

So moral of the story, be careful with label's; I am proud to serve my country and have met some of the greatest people this country ever given me the privilege to proudly call my family, not my friends, "family," because they are more than this to me. I highly regard all my brothers and sisters and stand shoulder to shoulder with each and every one of them, and those whom read this comment. God bless all of you and your families for your selflessness, honor, and sacrifice's you have all made.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Oct 6 at 2019 10:44 PM

SGT Donald Croswhite — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:44:20 -0400

Another stupid question. You gonna go after a 70 year old. Move on with your life.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Oct 8 at 2019 8:51 AM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 08:51:57 -0400

My answer is:
It's a matter of "personal conscience," either way, theirs.
They choose the paths / building blocks / experiences / memories that will make build their future selves.
I personally couldn't evade a draft for religious / spiritual reasons.
What if another man stands in the path of the bullet that was meant for me, in G-d's plan?
Hey that's my personal spiritual belief.

Response by CW3 Raymond Mead made Oct 11 at 2019 5:12 AM

CW3 Raymond Mead — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 05:12:28 -0400

I am a Viiet Nam draftee. It isn't something that goes away over the years. We share a special kind of bond. It's almost an exclusive club. I ended my career in 1990 as a CW3 in the Regular Army. I will politely disagree with your theory of servitude. At the time I was drafted, every male child born in the United States was born with a six year obligation to serve in the military. With the exception of Basic Training, we were never treated as slaves or servants. We fulfilled a responsibility to serve our country. It was as simple as that. I never knew of anyone who felt that way, other than some of the black troops, it being 1965 and Ft Benning Georgia. At the completion of two years of service, I returned home and pretty much picked up where I had left off. Contrary to popular belief, we were not discharged and assigned to the Ready Reserve for two years and then to the Standby Reserve for the final two years of our obligation. Most of us never saw or wore a uniform again. I don't think any of us begrudged our country two years of our time. Of course we knew about draft dodgers and those who went to Canada, we were only about ninety miles from the border. We objected to them for years and made all manner of threats regarding them. The Army treated us much better than many of our countrymen did at that time. After forty seven months, just before I received my final discharge I returned to the Army. It was like returning home. The sentiment toward draft resisters and deserter and anyone else who had avoided service was fairly hostile. Then came the Carter years. I was attending the Eighth Army NCO Academy when President Carter granted amnesty to the draft resistors and pretty much welcomed them home. We saw the news of the amnesty on AFKN while we were attending a formal dinner with the cadre. We were pissed and loud, and were quickly shut down by the Commandant of the Academy. It took a long time for the subject of draft resistance stopped being a topic of discussion in the Army. Those of us who were draftees had a special emotion about the resistors. I don't know any of us who didn't lose at least on friend in Viet Nam, and those who died were very often draftees. I know that there are statistics on the percentage of draftees lost versus RA troops. But I'm old and those statistics have slipped from my memory, unlike the faces of those we lost.
On the topic of draft resistors and draft dodgers, there are two school of thought. There were guys who objected to serving based on deep moral feelings and left before they received their draft notice. Those people did nothing wrong. And to stay and work in Canada at the time one had to apply for amnesty or apply for citizenship, and many did. A draft dodger was someone who deliberately avoided service after being notified or sought exclusion based on false reasons. When I was going through the numerous examinations to be allowed to return to active duty, I was having lunch at the AFES in Cleveland with younger guys {I was 27}. They were discussing the various methods that they were using to keep from being physically suited for military service. One of the things that they said would keep them out of the military was getting braces on their teeth. They began offering me advice and I told them no thanks I had already served two years and had been to Viet Nam. To me those two were unfit without trying. Some of the guys i served with had real issues. I served with a guy in Nam who was totally blind in one eye but had been given 20/20 vision and an Infantry MOS.
I wasn't alone. There were a lot of draftees returning to duty. One had his wife outside of the AFES while he was on an AUTOVON line looking for a slot in Viet Nam before he would take the oath again. If being a draftee were really servitude there wouldn't have been thousand of us who retired.
A fun fact, the very last draftee in the Army retired only a few years ago. He was CW5 who had been inducted in 1969. He retired with over forty years of service.
I am somewhat surprised that someone with your feelings toward the draft would serve to retirement in any faction of the military. After Basic Training duty is duty. And anyone who was being drafted was given the option of taking a third year and doing whatever "job" they wanted or get any duty assignment they wanted, but not both. I knew a lot of guys who took that option and go what they wanted. For all of the negative stories you hear about the Army, they did try very hard to give people what they wanted within reason.
One of the strangest things that ever happened to me in the Army took place on New Year's Day of 1972. My wife and I were visiting a friend in Detroit and Decided to have dinner in Windsor. We crossed the Woodward Street Bridge into Canada and I handed the Customs guy our military ID cards. He looked them over and then asked me if I was applying for asylum. I explained that I had already been to Vi-et Nam and had no desire to remainin Winndsor after dinner.
There are three of us on Face Book who were drafted on the same day and took Basic training together. As fate would have it, we were assigned to the same unit and served together in Viet Nam. We are all service connected disabled. The other two are 100%, I am 50%. Agent Orange was nast shit. One of the other two is very conservative and I'm sure that he still hates the draft dodgers/resistors. It isn't a subject that we dwell on. Should we be upset about draft dodgers? I don't harbour any ill feelings toward most of them these days unless they wwant to discuss how to fight a war. We have a special distaste for that, or when someone says they love war and know more about the military than the Generals. I have mellowed over the years. Those who emigrated to Canad based on their values have my respect. Many, although not all, of the others have paid for their choices. At the end of the day, we can't teach love of country or patriotism. A few years of mandatory service to our country isn't too much to ask. Would I suppor a draft? Yeas, as long as someone like Lewis B.Hershey isn't in charge of it. And it should apply to everyone without exception. However, I don't believe that wome shoulld be drafted. I don't question their ability to serve. They are capable of doing whatever a man can do. But I'm old fashioned, I think that the choice to serve should be theirs. It should also e volutary for men, but we have already seen a few issues with the all volunteer force. George Washington said "In creating the sldier, we did not cast out the citizen.
Sorry about making a short story long.

Response by LCDR Andy Hill made Oct 14 at 2019 1:09 PM

LCDR Andy Hill — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:09:57 -0400

It would be appropriate to respect the law of the land. If the act to avoid the draft was criminal, and the President set it aside, then what was done is done.

I was too young for Vietnam, my age placed me in the short period where males no longer had to register, but I had volunteered to serve in the Military. Later, I was contacted by the Selective Service to find out why I had not registered. The man on the phone was determined to have me registered or cite me for not doing so, and seemed angry about my lack of compliance. I just informed him I was on an operational mission and preparing for a sixth fleet deployment, I think he felt bad, but I thought it was funny.

Response by MSgt George Fillgrove made Oct 14 at 2019 2:41 PM

MSgt George Fillgrove — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 14:41:57 -0400

I don't think dodging the draft is something that should be respected. I think it is something that that the individual needs to deal with his own conscious about. I have more respect for conscientious objectors who chose other avenues to serve their country like the Peace Corps, VISTA or what have you.

Response by SPC James Ashmore made Oct 15 at 2019 6:48 PM

SPC James Ashmore — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 18:48:31 -0400

I thought about this one before starting to formulate my response. There are EXCEPTIONS to what I'm about to say, but that is what they are... EXCEPTIONS. As a member of a society that we value freedom & self-determination, I would have to say that the draft should ONLY ever be used in the MOST EXTREME situations. I do NOT claim to be a historian, but as a person who is moderately interested in history, I would not consider Vietnam to have been a case that warranted the draft. There has been considerable debate as to whether we should have even been involved in that conflict at all. The biggest cases that I can say from my perspective that warranted the draft were World War 1 & 2 where there was a definite threat to our way of life. Outside of that, I don't know if any of the conflicts since then should have had the draft. I do definitely agree that unless we have another event similar to WW1 & WW2 that presents a threat to our way of life that we should not be quick to implement a draft.
As someone who served Active Duty during Desert Storm, I have MIXED feelings about this topic. I would not want to go into a conflict/combat zone with someone that was drafted & forced to be there. With that said, I also did find it a problem with the ones that claimed "Conscientious Objector" when we were deployed. It was a CLEAR understanding when enlisting that you were agreeing to serve wherever you were ordered to go to include combat assignments. In my opinion, they should have had a dishonorable discharge for that & immediately removed from service.
That pretty much is how I feel. I see both points of view with Vietnam, but it is hard to say with 100% conviction about it.

Response by SP5 Art Schleinkofer made Oct 19 at 2019 8:40 AM

SP5 Art Schleinkofer — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 08:40:57 -0400

My contention is that no one should be forced to serve, but those who don’t should not be granted the benefit of citizenship. We have a duty to our country. I don’t mean everyone must serve in the military but there must be a form of National Service. Of course the highest pay would be for those who serve in the military.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Oct 20 at 2019 9:10 PM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sun, 20 Oct 2019 21:10:46 -0400

As a Vietnam era veteran, a person who registered for the draft and I enlisted in 1974. If people used policies and laws to avoid the draft, so be it but don’t use the slavery BS to describe your cowardly behavior.

Response by LT Mike Folker made Oct 31 at 2019 11:32 AM

LT Mike Folker — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 11:32:42 -0400

"Draft dodgers": Pres. Ford granted them amnesty. There was a host of reasons Ford didn't get elected on his own, & that was probably one of them; the Mayaguez disaster & the "Whip Inflation Now" (W.I.N.) campaign contributed.

I was drafted but never called; I later enlisted.

Some here likely remember the comic opera called the "draft lottery": a bungled effort by the people (Nixon et al.) sending materiel & troops to Vietnam to assuage the anti-war types. Later segued into abolishing the draft.

But finding reasons to condemn & demean Mssrs. Kerry & McCain but to praise Pres. Trump seems to me the height of absurdity; the pinnacle of desperation: That place occupied for the past 40+ years by one Donald Trump.

Response by CPL Johnnie White made Nov 7 at 2019 11:09 AM

CPL Johnnie White — Thu, 07 Nov 2019 11:09:39 -0500

Hey, for me I had no choice. I loved my country and was a patriotic person back during war in the RVN. Things changed when we walked away and spat on the graves of those who paid the ultimate sac rice.
I was not born anywhere else but here, and I did what was right according to the law. I was in the Army. I had a friend who enlisted in the AF and spent all of his time in Europe and did not come close to the battlefield. Wasn’t he blessed. I am sot sure, he can nearly get disability higher than 10%, he has hearing problems.
I only served 19 months with a 6 month early out. My disability is not at 100%, not complete and total. It took me a while before I claimed what was due me.
Thank you America the Beautiful. My country.

Response by SPC Arthur Lowder made Nov 19 at 2019 9:21 AM

SPC Arthur Lowder — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:21:01 -0500

as long as those who did not serve and dodge the draft man up about it.???

Response by CPL Gerald Fredrick made Nov 19 at 2019 9:31 AM

CPL Gerald Fredrick — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:31:00 -0500

As a child of the 1960s I was very aware of an obligation and duty to our country.and our freedoms. I had many friends who were drafted and entered service,went where they were sent and defended our country and her freedom. Some of my close friends went just as I did, only to be injured and return scarred and broken,physically harmed or broken emotionally. dome never returned. And those who did had a difficult time forgetting what they went through. I visit still. the grave of someome eho went to Vietnam,did what he was told to, returned brain injured and later died due to his physical and emotional injuries. He had given his best for America and she gave him nothing when he returned. He was spit at and called a murderer. Yes it bothers me. To have someone compare their sexual exploits to that of combat veterans in Vietnam. It bothers me that the sacrifices made by noble men are to be small and unimportant. They didn't have rich fathers who could buy a diagnosis of bone spurs,they went and they gave their all, when they would have preferred to stay home if they had a choice. My opinion is that of courage and strength will always be honored and respected. That of cowardice will always be refuted and scorned. I didn't like cowards then and don't like them today. I do not believe they had the best interests of the country preserve. My opinion matters not to anyone,other than me however. I gave my best with deferred vision and still managed to serve. I didn't write love letters in the sand or pursue sexual exploits as a personal Vietnam. I spent my Vietnam even with poor vision serving my country with pride and respect.

Response by SFC Nancy Hawk made Nov 19 at 2019 4:31 PM

SFC Nancy Hawk — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:31:42 -0500

I lived in a town in Virginia. One American Legion meeting the mayor came in to speak. The post was full of Vietnam vets. The mayor went from a presentation about the community to how he learned to swallow a gum wrapper that made it look like he had a tumor. Because he was in college. It was important for him to finish his college.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2019 10:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 10:08:25 -0500

While I agree with some of your statements against the draft and in support of deferments, I believe Trump evaded his responsibility to serve the country. It is not just that Trump sought and obtained multiple deferments, it is all the associated BS that went along with those deferments and the numerous lies he has told over the years.

I also believe if you're going to talk the talk then you should walk the walk. Trump talks a lot, A LOT, but he often speaks lies and fudges facts. Trump lied again and again about his lack of military service. Trump is said to have been a star athlete sought out by professional scouts but suddenly develops a medical disqualification after graduation yet is unable to recall which foot was impacted by the alleged painful disabling condition that excluded his military service. He falsely claimed to watch the draft lottery in college and was spared by his high draft number but the truth is the lottery was not instituted until after Trump graduated and Trump had an educational deferment that did not make him subject to the draft while in college. Trump continued to enjoy a rather active life in leisure sports that should not have been possible if his condition was as debilitating as claimed to obtain his medical deferment. Trump says he is perfectly healthy and does not have osteoarthritis. Miraculously his chronic medical condition went away entirely on its own shortly after the draft ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSv1PhiReBY

In interviews Trump bragged on the about his promiscuous lifestyle and stated that men who didn’t go to Vietnam didn’t need to feel guilty because “You know, if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it’s called the dating game,” “Dating is like being in Vietnam. You’re the equivalent of a soldier going over to Vietnam.” Four years later, Trump claimed “It’s amazing, I can’t even believe it. I’ve been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,” when Howard Stern asked how he handled making sure he wasn’t contracting STDs from the women he was sleeping with. Adding that women’s vaginas are “potential landmines” and saying “there’s some real danger there.” On multiple occasions Trump has also equated his long office hours as equal to the service and sacrifices of the military.

Trump falsely claims that he built the NY Vietnam War Memorial, but a 1984 newspaper account and board member interviews reveal that Trump lied about that too. He failed to pay veterans’ groups money that he had promised to donate until after the media pressured him into coughing up the dough. He falsely takes credit and perpetuates myths that he donated services to rescue stranded troops. He glosses over his initial support for war with Iraq and now claims he has always opposed it. He labelled POWs as "losers". He attacks Gold Star Families. He creates crises and claims victory when his crisis is defused. As President, Trump has taken personal credit for the military's deeds. He has eliminated military specific protections against predatory lenders and corrupt "schools" pilfering educational benefits. He took multiple rain checks and cancelled appearances at several military memorial events at both home and abroad (while other officials still attended). Trump perpetuated his feud with John McCain after the Senator died and made multiple false statements (i.e. Trump planned funeral events, McCain family didn't thank him, McCain pushed for war, etc.) He fosters a culture where "well meaning" staff members feel its necessary to hid the USS McCain from Trump's eyes. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

The guy unworthy of respect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67kNPi4MvvI

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1984/11/15/donald-trump-holding-all-the-cards-the-tower-the-team-the-money-the-future/8be79254-7793-4812-a153-f2b88e81fa54/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trumps-marine-airlift/
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/fact-checker-sean-hannity-s-tale-of-a-trump-rescue-1.423533

Why Trump didn't get drafted during Vietnam War

Donald Trump says despite multiple military deferments during the Vietnam War that he regrets not serving in the military. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux reports.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2019 10:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 10:08:46 -0500

Comments from decorated war veteran and double amputee, Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), sums things up pretty well in the first 6 minutes of this extended interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u96-8IGh1Tg

War vet Sen. Duckworth on Trump draft deferments: ‘I'm sorry, but it's baloney’

Veteran and Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., tells “Through Her Eyes” host Zainab Salbi that President Trump’s claims about his draft deferments are “baloney” a...

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Nov 24 at 2019 1:45 PM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:45:51 -0500

All those that avoided the draft should be to North Korea. This courtesy of our government. America citizen should be revoked.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Nov 24 at 2019 1:46 PM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:46:22 -0500

Thank you for career service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2019 6:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:23:08 -0500

Before joining the Army, I worked as an auto-body painter at the Fisher Body Plant (GM) in Lansing, MI.. I was also heavily into the Motorcycles and the lifestyle. The Fisher Body Plant had a huge lay-off and after 8 months of not working, I was out of unemployment, sub-pay and any other means of earning money. Also, my wife was very pregnant and I had no insurance. So, I did the only thing I could to support my family and stay legal; I joined the Army. If I had not joined, I would have become an outlaw biker for sure....

I volunteered for the Army in 1961 when the draft was still in effect. Personally, I think the Draft is good because it forces kids out of their normally "cushy" environment and requires them to do things they never thought they could possibly do, and in general makes them grow up. After Basic, I volunteered for Airborne while in MP School and ended up at Ft Campbell, KY. in the 101st Airborne MP Detachment. I had to leave the Detachment when I broke another MP's Jaw and put him in the ICU for having an affair with my now ex-wife. I was reassigned to the 801st Maint. Bn. and went to several excellent technical/mechanical schools from 1964 to 1967. These advanced tech schools I attended have helped me throughout my life.

When I departed for Vietnam in 1967, I was able to return to MP Duty and was the NCOIC of convoy security for most of the year I was there. I made the Army my career for 20 years, earned a Green Beret after Nam, (SF had 2 MP Detachments until 1972) and stayed in the MP field, (118th Abn MP Co.) until retirement. I left the Army and worked another 20 years as a Supervisory Physical Security Specialist, Anti-Terrorism Specialist, and the III Corps Crime Prevention Officer at Ft Hood, TX. PMO. Upon retiring from Ft Hood, I worked for another 8.5 years for the city of Killeen, at the Killeen/Fort Hood Regional Airport as an Operations Specialist, and finally retired for the third time from there. Now, I'm in my late late 70's and My 3 retirement pays, Social Security, and my VA disability allow me to live comfortably in the country about 10 miles out of Killeen.

The moral to this story is that I had no idea of the world that existed outside of my little town in Michigan where I barley graduated from High School. Rather than be an Outlaw, I decided on the Army. (I could have just as easily become a Hells Angel. (I still respect them)

The Army saved me, and even if I had gotten out after the first 3 years, the skills and hands on knowledge and experience would have given me a good edge on any civilian competing in the job market. We really need a draft to get kids motivated and kick-started in life to show them the wonders they'd never have experienced or even knew existed.
(It really does help anyone to grow up)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2019 6:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:38:41 -0500

Here's a response I sent to an 18 year old with no parents. He was about to have to leave the home where he was living as he just turned 18. Yeah, we need a draft to melt the snowflakes and create some REAL Americans instead of the dumbed down wimps of today's generation......

OK Kid, Here's the deal. If you're a tough kid that likes to take risks and complete very hard objectives, go into the Army with the intent to become Airborne, Ranger and Special Forces. If you like to be a techie then the Navy or Air Force is the place to go. There's already a Secret Space Program that is unbelievable and other Top Secret fields that are just as wild. All you have to do is qualify and DON'T EVER QUIT. No Parents, No problem! Just think how lucky you are to exist. God doesn't make mistakes and that's the truth. You have been put here for a purpose so don't blow it. I came from a broken home since birth and was raised on a farm that belonged to my Grandmother. You might as well say that I pretty much raised myself and I made some really stupid mistakes. That all ended when I went into the Army in 1961. I retired from the Army in 1981, and in my career I went to Vietnam with the 1st Bde, 101st Airborne Division. Upon returning from there in 1968 I earned my Green Beret. I continued to work after I retired in 81 at Ft. Hood Texas PMO for another 20 years and upon retiring from there worked for a City Airport retiring in 08. I'm a Great Grandfather now with a Wife of 51 years and two grown kids. You don't need Parents to be successful; you just need the guts and balls to make something of yourself. You’ve got good Bones and God's gonna help you and show you some paths, but it's up to you to do the work. GOOD LUCK !!

Response by 1stSgt Timothy Phillips made Nov 25 at 2019 7:47 AM

1stSgt Timothy Phillips — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:47:57 -0500

My reasoning for a draft of citizens in the USA is simple. They don't know anything about what made this country the way it is. At least in the military they can learn some real history about this country. They can also be made to interact with people from all ethnic groups and from all areas of the country. Presently you have rich people who can afford protective round the clock security and who hang around with other rich people. Next you have upper middle-class people who live in gated communities and hang around with those types of people. Then, you have lower and regular middle-class people who live in areas with no security, except police protection. They usually own guns to protect themselves. Finally, you have poverty-stricken people who live in high crime communities, usually in places where they are not allowed to own guns so they are brutalized by the criminal elements in their communities. Also, they don't get much police protection.
My draft would be simple. You finish high school and you go into the Army, the Navy, or the Air Force. Unless you are so physically disabled that you cannot function as a normal person would then you will go through basic training and get placed in a job that fits your abilities. The USMC and other special operations units would not be included in the draft. You would have to volunteer to belong in units like that.
After these draftees did their two years of service and got out they would have a different perspective of how their fellow citizens lived and thought about life. It would make them better citizens. As it is now you have people believing that they are better than others, simply because they were born into better circumstances and have never had to hob nob with people in a lower economic status than them.
Also, we are ALL CITIZENS OF THE USA, that means we all need to SERVE OUR COUNTRY in one way or another. A career in the US Armed Forces may not be for all people. Those people would do their two years and get out. Those who wanted to stay and were qualified for higher responsibility would be allowed to make a career out of the military.
Finally, there would be no going to college straight out of high school. EVERYONE who was physically able would be allowed a month after high school to have their party after graduating, then they would automatically be sent to the induction centers in their area and be on their way to the Army, Navy, or Air Force.
That is what should have happened during the Vietnam War. If it had been like that no one, which would have included Bill Clinton and George Bush (the Nat Guard hero), would have gotten out of the draft. I understand we need a National Guard, but no one should be allowed to go into that until they have done two years of active duty. College deferments, getting married and having a baby, or having bone spurs (like Donald Trump) should not have been allowed.
Those of us who fought the war have nothing but contempt for people who played the system to keep from being drafted. The people who went to other countries to avoid being drafted, I actually hate. I think they should have never been allowed to return to the USA. Which means if they stepped foot on US soil, they would be arrested, tried for treason, and either shot or be put in jail for the rest of their natural life. That is how much I abhor such traitors.
My point is this: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS COUNTRY ENOUGH TO SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES, THEN GET THE HELL OUT AND NEVER EVER COME BACK!

Response by SGT Martha Cain made Nov 30 at 2019 6:20 AM

SGT Martha Cain — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 06:20:02 -0500

I recall the downright desperation of fellow college students at CMU/ formerly Carnegie Tech, Pittsburgh, Pa. I was in Fine Arts but the mostly Engineering, male students were polarized by the realization they would be drafted. Student deferments, after graduation, meant a trip to Brooks Brothers & being fitted for their US Infantry Officer's uniforms...& a probable one way ticket to the garden spot of S.E. Asia~Vietnam. It was a question of honor to most ; but some were unable to fulfill that most sacred of obligations. They took the "thumps" and faced their fate. Others ran, scared & far. Had I been a man, numbered in the draft & my number came up, I probably would have just gone. It was how I was brought up. I can't imagine the shame of being branded a coward & worse...one who disavows, denies the "beloved country, the USA". As time passed there were pardons & that mercy was commendable but undeniable was the angst~all around~! Lives, altered, eradicated~even, thus changed utterly & forever. That complicated war forbidden the honor of being called a war~ was a Nam Widowmaker. I will always respect John Kerry for his resistance ~yet service w/ honor.

Response by PO1 John Hudson made Dec 1 at 2019 9:11 PM

PO1 John Hudson — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 21:11:49 -0500

I enlisted before my draft number came up and stayed in for 25 years, serving between the USA and USCG. The reason for the background, my feelings are based on my love for the military and this Country. While I wish the laws were different I too must concede that those who didn’t serve, avoided serving, paid not to serve or had connections, did so on the blood and tears of 18 year olds who served believing in something greater, many gave their last full measure. It sickens me to have someone who never served dishonoring those who did. Regardless of who it is.

Response by SSG Terry Cummings made Dec 3 at 2019 12:01 AM

SSG Terry Cummings — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 00:01:50 -0500

well I can understand those thoughts from someone younger than myself that being said I disagree with exceptions; when in VN worked and taught along side of US &RA I never heard them say the draft is wrong they may have thought that at sometime? while in Desert Storm I never heard that b4 or after conflict started .of course I was one of RA.And did think like I'm sure most of us did Why did i volunteer but pride over rolled that. BUT My thoughts after I returned home and retired and decided to work saw 20 & 30 year old children with NO work ethic's NO pride in doing a good job? (I'm sure it wasn't everone) but everyone I delt with that didnt have a family member in military or went to military school had a different outlook on work ethic's. we should not force our children join full time but make It mandatory two years in reserve or national guard then go to college or into 1 year active duty military. our young adults (not all ) but a lot want a free ride .my Son God bless his soul had good work ethic's my Daughter same way but chose to go bvb to school instead of Military. but I Know if they had been drafted they both would have been proud to go.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Dec 6 at 2019 11:45 AM

CPT Lawrence Cichelli — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 11:45:18 -0500

I have mixed thoughts on this. My cousin went to Canada to avoid the Draft. He came back and raised a family. His son joined the Air Force and made an honorable career of it. While his son was serving, I talked to my cousin and he admitted that running to Canada was a big mistake and that he couldn't have been more proud of his son being in uniform. When people say that Trump dodged the draft, those people also forget their Hero Bubba ran to Canada for the same reason. But somehow they think that's OK??? Both are wrong and for that reason, why are they Presidents of this country???

Response by SPC Kurt Hesselden made Dec 10 at 2019 9:11 PM

SPC Kurt Hesselden — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:11:21 -0500

Would you want to serve next to an adamant anti-war, anti-violence member forced to serve on patrol and depend on them to put those sentiments aside under fire ? After watching a few guys when under fire cower and hide, not firing and contributing to the effort. It would have been better they hadn't been there and a fighter had been instead. So them avoiding service at least for combat arms was probably a positive. I doubt a real serving objector would have been in a combat role, but could in the least have served in support areas.

Response by SPC Lorraine Pickens made Dec 10 at 2019 10:49 PM

SPC Lorraine Pickens — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:49:42 -0500

NOPE. Got better things to think about than what Others don't want to do.

Response by Cpl Glen Burks made Dec 18 at 2019 7:35 AM

Cpl Glen Burks — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 07:35:09 -0500

No draft registration, no Federal Job......they check!

Response by SrA David G made Dec 22 at 2019 11:15 PM

SrA David G — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 23:15:14 -0500

I served during Vietnam. Most of those that I knew and served there didn't have a problem with people that avoided the draft. What they did get upset about though were those people that made harsh personal attacks against those serving at the time. Avoid the war, criticize the war, both no problem. Criticize or make slanderous claims toward the troop would get one a thumbs down, way down, 100 percent of the time.

Response by LCDR Mike Morrissey made Dec 23 at 2019 8:08 AM

LCDR Mike Morrissey — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 08:08:58 -0500

Not to be pedantic about this, but the draft was ruled constitutional. In fact naturalized citizens take the following oath:
“ I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.[12]

For people who object to taking an oath (or are not religious), the words "on oath" can be replaced with "and solemnly affirm", and the words "so help me God" can be omitted.
==============
The fundamentals of service are essentially incorporated in enlistment and promotion swearing in ceremony for service members..It’s a pity that there isn’t a similar oath required of all natural borne citizens as a rite of passage.

Defense of a country is an obligation inherent (explicitly or implied) in being a citizen. At times idiots reign havoc and the Constitutional govt of our Federal (in federation of 50 sovereign States) responds as a representative democracy. The draft is Constitutional and the law of the land. It is foundational to our survival in times of extremis and maintenance of the Constitutional requirement provision for military and naval force. Compulsory service as part of being a citizen is different from slavery or servitude. For some the experience may be difficult to differentiate and mores the pity, especially when the vet is subjected to the vagaries of the citizenry.

During WWII, it is certain we could not have mounted either D-Day or the Pacific island campaign without the draft. Expecting sufficient young fresh faced 18 yr olds to fill the ranks and be number 1 Bangalore torpedo at Normandy or assault Iwo Jima without the compulsory draft is ludicrous. As it is we are no longer afforded the luxury of ramping up and sending thousands off to war. The sophistication on the modern battlefield or at sea is a magnitude unimaginable to the 1940s soldiers and sailors. In 1962 while a Junior in high school a classmate wondered if we would be called up if war ensued over Cuba. I responded that is would be over before we even got through basic much less trained. Today, a Sherman tank is much different from an M1A1, then there are the aircraft and shipboard systems.

Even after Pear Harbor, we weren’t even close to meeting personnel requirements based only on volunteers. Then there’s the consideration of volunteering with the caveat of doing something not related to the grunt in the first wave.

You live in my house, you live by my rules and will contribute through service: take out the garbage, and mow the lawn. Pay fair share of rent (taxes). Stand guard when needed.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Dec 23 at 2019 8:26 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 08:26:46 -0500

I have different points of view about this. In one point of view, my Father, and Uncle were drafted into the Army during WWII. My Father in Law was in the USMC and served in Vietnam. for someone like the current president of the U.S. to make the comments he's made about why he dodged the draft, and his DISRESPECT of those who served in the Military(McCain, Vindman, Mattis, McMasters, etc), is beyond offensive. From another point of view, Muhammad Ali was condemned for his refusal to be drafted into the Military during Vietnam. This was depicted in the movie:ALI that starred Will Smith. My Father in law was also watching the movie with me at the time, he( my father in law) was not upset during that scene, and to be honest neither was I. why? Because Ali was true to his convictions, and his refusal to serve because of his religious and social beliefs was indeed genuine.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Dec 27 at 2019 8:45 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 20:45:22 -0500

Having spent over 900 days in the Mekong Delta I can't begrudge anyone who didn't spend time in that terrible place. Those of us who went to Vietnam are plagued with nightmares, and a head full of bad memories.

Response by SSG Ronald Tamoschat made Dec 28 at 2019 10:34 PM

SSG Ronald Tamoschat — Sat, 28 Dec 2019 22:34:25 -0500

I was drafted and was honored to wear the uniform and serve my Country. I remembered all the WW2 and previous war vets who had served so well and felt that I could not do less than give my best , no matter what it cost me. Yes , I am an idealist , but that's my take on the issue.

Response by CPT Dennis Stevenson made Jan 1 at 2020 9:49 AM

CPT Dennis Stevenson — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 09:49:14 -0500

I don't mind folks getting education deferments -- I graduated in 1965 and already there was resistance to Viet Nam. There are some who are true pacifists; many chose to serve in other ways. I have a friend who is a pacifist and got beat up in a demonstration -- so he headed to the Netherlands. That's fine.
What pisses me off about Trump was that he doesn't have bone spurs and used his money to pay off some doc. I don't know if his Draft Board had him go for a real physical or not; I suspect they didn't. That makes him a coward in my book.

Response by SMSgt Michael Gleason made Jan 4 at 2020 1:28 PM

SMSgt Michael Gleason — Sat, 04 Jan 2020 13:28:54 -0500

...only with those whose surname is a five-letter word beginning with "T" and ending with "P".

Response by SFC Robert Escher made Jan 5 at 2020 11:01 AM

SFC Robert Escher — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:01:41 -0500

There was also a third condition if my memory serves me right. I wasn’t drafted I enlisted before I was drafted, I had a high draft number. But as I was saying I think the third option was to join in a civil service program that the draft board could assign you to. I could be wrong though.

My opinion on the matter was and is if you received deferments that was fine. But if you ran away to Canada or to Mexico or England ( like a President did) then indeed you did dodge the draft and you were wrong and you should have spent time in jail. You broke the law. Carter pardoning the “draft dodgers was wrong as well”

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2020 7:22 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:22:22 -0500

The draft was a very long time ago. Get over it !

Response by SPC Chuck Daly made Jan 6 at 2020 12:57 AM

SPC Chuck Daly — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 00:57:12 -0500

I am 70 years old. I was draft age during the active draft and during the Viet Nam war. I served in RVN during that war for 18 months. I, like many others, suffered the social consequences of my service and suffer the mental and medical consequences to this day. Serving your country is always a choice. A person can choose to serve when the country calls or not serve. Men of conviction sometimes choose not to serve like Mohammed Ali. Those people should be revered for the courage of their convictions. Some folks are cowards and in their fear, run and hide. Let them go to live in their shame. My highest regards and respect go to those who answered their country's call and, though scared or reluctant, did their duty. A draft is an almost impossibly difficult thing to live under, especially when it is inequitable, as in the last draft. Personally, I think every citizen should be required to serve the country for a specified duration at some activity that benefits the nation, not necessarily the military.

Response by SSG Jeffery Payne made Jan 6 at 2020 2:32 AM

SSG Jeffery Payne — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 02:32:55 -0500

You sound like a leftish communist.

Response by CPO Nate S. made Jan 6 at 2020 1:36 PM

CPO Nate S. — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:36:20 -0500

SSG Gerhard S. First: I came on a active duty just after Vietnam! That said I wish your post had included a polling question. I am interested in data combined with narrative.

Second: I agree with Sgt Private RallyPoint Member "...I want men and women serving that are joining of their own free will...." which goes along with the several points that COL Jon Lopey made in his narrative.

Third: As Cpl Bernard Bates points out "...The GI,s got blamed for the war..."; but, more than 40 years after Vietnam concluded, the nation is learning to separate the solider from the policy maker. Today people are learning that those heroes (men and women from Vietnam) have since lead very honorable lives, despite modern media portals. Our nation is maturing and learning to separate the “warrior” from the “warrior policy maker.”

Never forget that nearly all real warriors would rather have peace, but every warrior worth their weight in gold if they are asked to go to war, wants to go to win, win swiftly and decisively and to leave a former war zone as quickly as possible and leave it returned to peace and prosperity in the aftermath. Our “Volunteer Forces” of active duty and guard/reserve warriors today are (< 1%) of the nation that at any given time are asked to 'be prepared' to lay down their lives for the altruistic goal of – Freedom and a Lasting Peace!

America has "appeared" to have grown-up understanding that the everyday individual service member today is in the military as a volunteer who serves their country and is not responsible for the making of national policy. They enter for many reasons, but they serve a nation whose ideal is to have “…a more perfect union…” That is why I have included a summary table of recent data regarding how people, including vets, view the Vietnam war via the lens of time. The data in the visuals provided in this response post, for those that want to know, have been compiled and cross-referenced with DMDC, US Census, GAO, VHA and other key data repositories for such data.

We can NEVER forget men like pfc-joe-fugo and SP5 Gary Brown who have pointed out things we have to face in terms of how unfair things were at that point in history on many levels. Men, like pfc-joe-fugo, were handed a raw deal in terms of their treatment upon their return. Because I came on active duty just after Vietnam I viewed up close through their eyes and working with some that were on AD at the time their issues. This is also why they require a voice - still today. That voice may still be angry, resentful and distrusting on many levels, but such men and women and others like them answered a call to duty from their hearts, or at least I would like to believe so. I am not trying to be patronizing toward pfc-joe-fugo, in fact, many like them still believe their voice has not been heard. We have to, always, Thank men like pfc-joe-fugo and others for their service! Because > 95% served with honor, and knowing nothing of pfc-joe-fugo's service in a very unpopular war, letting them know the words thanking them for their service are heart-felt is good for their mental and physical health, especially knowing they are now > 65-yo. Just acknowledging how they fell, regardless if we agree with their assessment of not, is a huge part of improving their social connectedness, such as RP attempts to do, can lead to improving their overall health. We have to work to make those who feel short changed or forgotten in every community know this or risk their humanity.

Those on RP should know that now the total number of veterans from Vietnam are second only to the total number of combined GWoT veterans combined since 1990. We cannot forget any veteran.

Finally, Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth is correct when he states "...In a time of war or national crisis we as a nation do not have the luxury to rely on volunteers to serve and man the rank and file. It is necessary and in the best interest of the nation to instill a draft 'if and only if' we are at war and cannot fill the ranks...."; and, would appear to be consistent with language of "We the people..." to "...provide for the common defense..." to "...secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity... in order to form a more perfect union...." The "...common defense..." language is key!

Just saying......

Response by SFC Tom Jones made Jan 6 at 2020 3:28 PM

SFC Tom Jones — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 15:28:53 -0500

I agree to disagree with what you have stated my problem is this, if a person used education not to serve is one thing, but if a person went to another country to dodge the daft, is to (ME IS A DISGRACE TO OUR COUNTRY) Also like you I have served a long time and I love this country,

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Jan 6 at 2020 6:01 PM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 18:01:16 -0500

Those who avoided the draft and did not step up as an American meant someone else had to take his place in V.N.

What if that "Someone else" came home in a mental flag covered coffin? Who really killed him?
The draft dodger or the person behind the AK-47?

Have a drink on me answering that question.

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Jan 6 at 2020 7:40 PM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 19:40:29 -0500

I don't agree with your choice of words but noteworthy if you are trying to make a good point.

For everyone who dodged the draft and used the rule of law to do so with just cause, I have no issues. I do have issues with those who (ran) from their duty and responsibilities as an American.
The void they created meant someone else had to take their place.

That replacement might have come home in a metal flag draped coffin but served and a hero.
Who killed the man? The person behind the AK-47? Or, the man who left the country?

I hope those who ran can find peace within themselves over their actions. They will be forever be enslaved and held in bondage because of their lack of courage. Some gave their lives so the cowards
can be free today.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jan 6 at 2020 11:19 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 23:19:00 -0500

Yes. Trump evaded the draft.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2020 7:40 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:40:17 -0500

No reason to harbor ill will. Not everyone is made to serve. Shake his hand, wish him well and never depend on him in a fight. And then wink at his girlfriend because she knows she is dating a pussy.

Response by CPL John Sutor made Jan 11 at 2020 3:51 PM

CPL John Sutor — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 15:51:53 -0500

Don't ask someone to do what you refused to do . As far as I'm concerned Prez heel spur is not fit to command.

Response by SPC Ted Heath made Jan 12 at 2020 1:38 PM

SPC Ted Heath — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:38:41 -0500

Draft if necessary. I chose to volunteer because, well that’s what my family has done for generations. Also, as my dad put it: volunteers can pick their job. Draftees wind up grunts. I have no respect for those that shun military service. If no one joined, then all would be draftees, no? I am a firm believer that a volunteer is better trained, and makes a better soldier than one forced to serve against their will. Someone has gotta do it.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Jan 17 at 2020 8:24 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Fri, 17 Jan 2020 20:24:55 -0500

Didnt the draft end about 45 years ago or more? It seems like you're really kind of grasping for things to be pissed off about if that's what you're pissed off about. (I have been guilty) We have such a wide variety of offensive acts in the present to be mad about without dwelling on something from a generation ago. Like people who cant figure out basic biology. Boys have penises, girls have vaginas. People driving up your ass with their high beams on. People condoning drug abuse, shoplifting and prostitution are a few of many more relevant things to be mad about...and guys going into women's (multiple occupancy) restrooms. Boys participating in girls' sports is a worthy current thing to be upset about. If you just want to be mad about something and looking for a good thing to be mad about these are just a few of many...or putting green oe white goop on my food when I didnt ask for green or white goop.

Response by PO2 Ron Burling made Jan 19 at 2020 3:18 PM

PO2 Ron Burling — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 15:18:00 -0500

Personally speaking, I spent 18 months in RVN as a volunteer, I hold no grudge with those who were able to legally avoid it. I do object to those who haven't served anytime or anywhere, faulting another over having not served.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Jan 20 at 2020 11:41 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 23:41:36 -0500

Byron Skinner. I gave up Draft Dodgers and Jane Fonda years ag.., no make that decades ago. In old age I find it humorous when Vietnam comes up in discussions I hear all of the excuses. These men are pathetic Those of us who went have no excuses to be made. I do get a laugh from the dodgers who try and fake going into the Army and going to Vietnam. If you weren’t there don’t try and fake it.

Response by SP5 Ron Rowland made Jan 22 at 2020 9:18 PM

SP5 Ron Rowland — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 21:18:33 -0500

Ok, at first I hated those men who went to a Canada, I was only 19 in 1965 in the jungle of a Vietnam. I did not understand the war but wanted more soldiers to help me in my bunker. I did my duty.
When I realized that the war was un-just, my hate for those men in Canada went away. The young people in colleges all over the country ended that war. I directed my hate to President Johnson who wasted over 58,000 men and women for some political reason. I came home, many did not.

Response by SGT Doug Blanchard made Jan 23 at 2020 3:49 PM

SGT Doug Blanchard — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 15:49:37 -0500

I grew up during a time that we still had a draft, not just registering like what is required today. The Vietnam war was still in full swing and I knew there was a chance that I could be drafted right after high school. Well the year I had to register was also the year the draft ended, 1975.
Would I have gone if called up, chances are. As I was raised in a family with a long military history, going back to this countries Revolutionary War for Independence. But I digress. I enlisted a few months after graduation from high school and have no regrets, would I do it over again knowing what I know now, HELL YES in a heartbeat..
Only thing I might possibly change is I would have stayed in and did my 20, or possibly even longer.
The military is not for everyone, I personally have no problem with those that avoided the draft by going to college or got a medical deferment. As for those that went running yo Canada to avoid the draft, that is between them and their maker. It is not my place or anyone else's place to judge them, everyone and I do mean everyone is going to have to answer for the decisions and actions they made in the end.

Response by CPL Dennis Bodofsky made Jan 25 at 2020 8:30 AM

CPL Dennis Bodofsky — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 08:30:04 -0500

I went volunteered proudly to go If you don't kick ass someone will take your freedom away. People that didn't go I don't care. It was a war but through it all, I wound up loving everybody 45 th DUST OFF AIR AMBULANCE We picked up everybody war sucks But you better be ready to fight to keep your freedom it isn't free.

Response by SSG Michael Doolittle made Jan 27 at 2020 1:09 AM

SSG Michael Doolittle — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 01:09:36 -0500

The draft has been over for 47 years.... The only ones we should care about being a draft dodger would be a Commander in Chief sending anyone into Harm's Way who faked an excuse to get out of the draft.. Trump comes to mind

Response by FN Randy Bohlke made Jan 28 at 2020 1:40 PM

FN Randy Bohlke — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 13:40:20 -0500

First and foremost thank you for your service. Now for the meat, who would want to be on the front lines with someone who would rather not be there? You have to depend on the person beside you to protect and save you if necessary and someone who doesn't want to be there may run from the fight when needed.

I say if someone has the means to avoid the draft and doesn't want to be there God bless them I don't want them there either.

Response by PO3 David Mondello made Jan 30 at 2020 9:23 AM

PO3 David Mondello — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:23:29 -0500

Muhammad Ali stuck around and faced the music. Him I respected. All the others who fled the US I do not.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2020 4:27 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:27:22 -0500

I joined the All Volunteer Force of my own free will but would have opposed the Draft, had I been old enough to be be drafted. When Carter (in my opinion the worst President ever unfit to shine Obumer's shoes) granted amnesty to the people who fled to Canada and elsewhere to escape, I was pissed! They should never have been allowed back in this country, Scott free. As for the ones who Dodged the Draft 'fair-n-square' so to speak, I don't know. I think not. Some people are just not cut out to be in the military and to make them, is as wrong as it is stupid.

Response by CWO4 Ray Fairman made Feb 2 at 2020 2:12 PM

CWO4 Ray Fairman — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 14:12:01 -0500

I never faced the draft, because I joined at 17, after serving in combat, I quickly came to the conclusion that I did not want to be in a combat environment with anyone who did not want to be there with me. When I became a law enforcement officer, I quickly applied the same philosophy to that profession. When my life is on the line, I want to be able to trust the man (or woman) who is fighting alongside me. I also came to realize that there are really only 2 % of us who are not sheep (followers) 1% are innately evil and 1% are warriors. Our best leaders (not commanders) can only be found in the 1% who are warriors. With that in mind, sheepdogs do not bite the sheep, even if they don't like them.

Response by CPT John Miller made Feb 3 at 2020 1:49 PM

CPT John Miller — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 13:49:26 -0500

President Trump appreciates the thesis. Way to excuse unpatriotic behavior.

Response by SP5 Norman Binder made Feb 7 at 2020 7:30 PM

SP5 Norman Binder — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 19:30:25 -0500

Face the facts, of course they are legal because some individuals actually have the problem. Other's like tRump pay for their problem to go away...obviously.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2020 9:14 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:14:13 -0500

Unless the enemy is at the shores, I do not believe that the draft is consistent with a free people.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2020 1:35 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 01:35:03 -0500

I do respect the service members that fought and gave their lives in Vietnam. But..... Hindsight 20/20, it seems like EVERYONE should have dodged that draft. The Vietnam war was a total s@&t show. I’m glad the US was able to evacuate so many south Vietnamese though.

I was in Saigon last week and I talked to a few people there about that war. Even they don’t really consider themselves “victorious” in that debacle.

The main reasons that kept popping up were:
1. When the the Viet Cong finally took over the south they learned that 92% were already evacuated. “Wtf? Where is everyone"? They thought they were going to be able to unite the whole population and convert them to communism. Instead they were left with mostly old senior citizens that they had to take care of.

2. They were left with a land of agent orange and unexploded bombs.

3. The south Vietnamese were granted automatic citizenship. While the north Vietnamese were stuck there to clean up a mess.

4. The lopsided number of deaths.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Feb 10 at 2020 9:37 PM

1SG John Highfill — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 21:37:19 -0500

We (I) May not like it but a legal deferment is just that on the other hand going AWOL or leaving the country is a different matter

Response by Sgt Dale Boston made Feb 11 at 2020 6:19 PM

Sgt Dale Boston — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 18:19:49 -0500

Taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax’s
1. this is a personal benefit
2. you are the sole beneficiary
3. your life in not in jeopardy 24 7 365 day of this deployment
4. your mental health and physical health is not at risk to be altered for the rest of your natural life and come back and have to fight to get the care you need and deserve.
5. having to work on jobs masking your feelings and dealing with challenges only a few will ever know.
6. do you ever wonder why some become dope addicts and some alcoholics and some commit suicide?
7. thank God you have a home ,many of us sacrifice for many of them that think it wasn't very important, many of us are still homeless, and yes thanks for your support.
8. i have no regrets and would do it again if my country need me.
9. maybe if you are too big to do something little, maybe you are too little to do something big.
10. when i travel the world people seem to respect me because i am American.
11. we no longer pledge of allegiance to anything, either we stand for something or fall for anything.

Response by PFC Tom O'Day made Feb 13 at 2020 11:35 PM

PFC Tom O'Day — Thu, 13 Feb 2020 23:35:08 -0500

Thank you for raising an intelligent issue. I do not now and did not as a young man consider the Draft to be any kind of unjust form of servitude. I confess to be from another era, my active duty enlistment in the Marines ended in July 1958. Just 13 years after my father's WW2 enlistment ended and I have brother between us whose term in Korea was also Volunteer.
It is almost a rite of passage in my family. War after foolish war. Generation after generation. Why?
You answered that early. We live in a country until recently envied by people all over the planet, the land of the free and home of the brave. My father often stated that there were many heroes, the overwhelming majority were never noticed or ribboned. Only a few lived to be recognized.
I like that bumper sticker that says "Freedom Isn't Free". I like every other VET on this website swore an oath to defend the USA and it's CONSTITUTION against ALL ENEMIES foreign and domestic(other Americans). In the service that meant even with your life. To ensure all those great things we enjoy as Americans. Consider it paying dues to the most magnificent club on earth. By your service drafted or volunteer, the uniform is the same. The job to protect our families right to all those benefits into the future.
As for Trump he is in my mind a Traitor. The doctor who falcified his bone spur issued admitted it, his practices offices were in a Trump building, Sr. Trump indicated he might have to move out. Trumps Gfather fled Austria to avoid the draft. Austo-Hungarian War, was refused return when he tried to go home. Father never served. What this fellow has been doing his whole life has been criminal. Some envy him, others jealous none are Patriots in my mind. Patriots don't an indivual who makes sport of the Constitution, threatens people doing their sworn duty, makes fun of the parents of the fallen. The oath we took didn't have an expiration date, that will be noted on my headstone.

Thanks for the opportunity Tom ("Mike") O'Day

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made Feb 17 at 2020 9:44 AM

LTC Wayne Dandridge — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:44:23 -0500

The north would have lost the civil war without a draft. Lots of military age young men avoided the draft in the civil war and the 2nd world war. We cannot afford to have individuals determine who will serve and who will not serve in a major war.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Feb 23 at 2020 9:07 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 21:07:26 -0500

I remember the case of Mohammad Ali, formerly known as Cassius Clay, who was an astonishing athlete and Olympic Gold Medal winner as a boxer. He refused to be drafted, and accepted his legal punishment and went to prison. I entirely disagreed with his position, but I entirely respected his courage to accept punishment and do his time in prison.
I do NOT agree that a draft is involuntary servitude. If you are a citizen of the United States, you must defend the republic that defends you. If your country tells you they require your services for the survival of the nation, then you must serve your nation or face the consequences. If you disagree with your nation's policies, then file a lawsuit after you report to duty. But don't ask others to defend your nation while you live in safety, based on the efforts of better men and women.
My father taught me not to depend on the efforts of others, but to make my own way n the world. We haven't taken welfare, and we haven't run away from danger. I'm the 7th generation of my family to serve in the Army, in the Revolutonary War, on both sides of the Civil War, in both World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and the Cold War. Garry Owen!

Response by SPC Cathy Evans made Feb 24 at 2020 6:24 PM

SPC Cathy Evans — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 18:24:05 -0500

Just a thought: Slaves were neither paid nor given benefits; however, I do believe soldiers were both paid and provided benefits.

Response by PO2 Jim Fine made Feb 27 at 2020 3:05 AM

PO2 Jim Fine — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 03:05:08 -0500

If they went to Canada yes I amm still pissed off. Especially if they have retained their US citizenship but refused to help protect it.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2020 9:35 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:35:43 -0500

Well gee, if you don't think a draft can exist with a free society then you won't have a free society for long. If we are faced with a formidable enemy and there are not enough 'volunteers', you either draft or submit. Simple as that. With freedom comes responsibility. Suck it up buttercup.
In the end, in a serious war, the army needs bodies, whether they want to be there or not. Many will end up dead/disfigured. You need look no further than the civil war, WWI, and WWII.
If you choose to surrender, that's your choice. But draft dodgers deserve lock up and/or death. Comparing it to slavery means you don't understand our system and haven't studied history.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Mar 2 at 2020 12:24 PM

SFC Robert Walton — Mon, 02 Mar 2020 12:24:49 -0500

I don't see why we should over half of the Politicians done so and no one seems to find it strange just when President Trump didn't attend. The Clintons Protested the Viet-Nam War But Bill Was President. The draft was removed for a reason. Many People Volunteered we don't hold those that didn't on a lower threshold. It is a petty attack on the President just to try to unseat him like many things that's been done to people in this administration, It's time for folks to get back to doing their Business and quit finding reasons to be Mad at each other.

Response by CPL Justin Higgins made Mar 8 at 2020 11:45 PM

CPL Justin Higgins — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 23:45:10 -0400

I served in the US Army from 2010-2014. When I joined the US was still engaged in both OIF and OEF. Joining the Army was the best thing that ever happened to me. I served honorably, and I am a disabled veteran. In my opinion it seems that the era of conflict is of a particular importance. For example, I believe WW2 was a legitimate conflict. For a draftee to dodge their obligation of service during this war, in my opinion, would be unacceptable. However, in my opinion the Vietnam War was not a legitimate conflict. The risk to ones life upon being drafted was considerably high. I believe that based upon my own record of voluntary service that perhaps I would have volunteered in the same way that I did for OIF and OEF. The men who dodged the draft during Vietnam were trying to prevent their lives being taken by an obvious illegitimate war. I cannot fault them for this. Blame should be placed upon the corrupt government and politicians who propagated such a war. Those who did serve in Vietnam have earned respect and their service should not be diminished in any way.

Response by CW4 Robert Mixon made Mar 11 at 2020 11:14 AM

CW4 Robert Mixon — Wed, 11 Mar 2020 11:14:34 -0400

Just watch the movie platoon one more time

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2020 11:03 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2020 11:03:23 -0400

First of all, I am going to state what might be obvious, but I never take for granted. Service is something that is our privilege. Not everyone can do it. Not everyone should do it. But those that do so honorably earn every benefit that our country gives them in compensation.

My dad would have been drafted; he enlisted in the Army instead. They sent him to Korea, not Vietnam, because the Army still needed watchmen at other posts. To this day, he has trouble looking me in the eye about his service - that it was somehow less because he didn't go to war like his son did. Even though he spent ten years in and got out as a SPEC-7. I told him I was proud of him and glad he pulled his post in Korea, Ft Belvior (where I was born), and Germany.
Many of his friends weren't so fortunate.

I was blessed to serve in an all-volunteer force, and one that has been at war in some form for most of my 27 years in. For us, the closest moral equivalent to a draft dodger are those who signed up for the benefits and when the deployment comes up, find ways to get into a school, a TRADOC assignment, pregnant, or some "medical issue" suddenly arises that keep them from going. When my unit first received notice we were headed to Afghanistan in 2002, a number of these cropped up. To me, those who do things to avoid their duty are beneath contempt. They deserve the scrutiny. They deserve the questions they get when they are one of a very few who have been in for a while without a combat patch in formation, and they deserve the consequences that has for their careers or more when their leadership determines that they did not do their part.

I remember and honor Soldiers like MAJ Charles Soltes, who left his pregnant wife and his thriving Optometry practice to command a company in Mosul, Iraq. He only got to do so for 15 days, before being killed in action. I also remember a young SPC I had who was 90 pounds of kick-ass and motivation (man, I miss Jonesy) and how utterly heartbroken she was when part way through mobilization training, she started getting sick and found out she was pregnant.

I was never prouder to be in the Army than I was in 2013 as I stood in front of MY company, the one I had trained with and built up for years, as I called the roll to go to Africa and every name on that roster had been on it for a year or more. Every last one of them knowing they were going, every last one of them WANTING to be there, every last one of them a patriot, and a whole lot of wives, husbands, new babies, and very pregnant wives standing in the rain to see us off.
That is what patriotism looks like.

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Mar 13 at 2020 9:46 AM

MAJ John Douglas — Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:46:34 -0400

Those that ran off to Canada and Sweden should have been forced to stay out of this country. Others that used various means to avoid the draft that were not available to many, we can discuss later.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Mar 13 at 2020 2:31 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:31:13 -0400

I enlisted after high school, draft dodger the easy way, why, because my father servdd. First as a Merchant Marine, then as an enlisted man in the US ARMY. I also have a friend who never served in the military. At the time he was a civilian engineer for the US NAVY. I consider him serving in a different way. Anyone who has/had a job on a military base as a civilian, served differently. Because they kept the military functioning. Look how World War One MOH recipient Alvin York or World War Two MOH recipient Dawson Doss, both believed killing even in war was wrong. Sgt. York killed to prevent his felllw soldiers from being killed. Pvt. Doss, became a combat medic to save the lives of men in his company. But those men who ran up to Canada or to other countries where they would not be sent back for draft evasion, but returned years after the Vietnam War was over, should never be allowed to serve in any position in government, local, state or federal government political or non-political jobs. Forgiveness should never be rewarded in any way. Boxer Mohammed Ali stayed in the US, after he refused to be drafted, for religous reasons. He went to prison and lost his championship title. Him, I have always forgiven, and cheered his come back as a boxing champion. He never lost his citizenship and did his time. Others whose families bought their way out of the draft, never served, should have been banned for life, from ever being granted contracts of any sort. Political service is another subject that draft dodgers with big money should never be allowed for life. The likes of Clinton, Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders and yes even our sitting POTUS, Donald J. Trump, should have never been allowed to serve in government. You notice I left out George H. Bush. He served in the Air Force Reserves. But few remember his father, George H. W. Bush, was director of the CIA, under Presidents Nixon and Ford. The chance of him becoming a POW, would have hurt the senior Bush. All the others who never served, got deferments for various reasons. Mr. Sanders never had a real job outside of being elected mayor of a small town, should not even be allowed to run for dog catcher let alone POTUS. Oh and Mr. Biden and the ladies who never served in the military, you should hang your heads for not doing so too. There is no draft these days, but look at all the women who are serving now.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 15 at 2020 12:56 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Sun, 15 Mar 2020 12:56:30 -0400

When the U.S. suspended the draft I was concerned. The military has been a mixing bowl of America. Volunteers and draftees form every sector of our population were brought together for a single purpose, those who chose to be there and those who didn't. Those who would make it a career and those who would leave when their time was up. Removing the draft meant we were now employing a mercenary military. Civilizations of the past that resorted to mercenaries to defend their countries, Athenians hired Spartans, Rome hired Germans, Britain also hired Germans and the French had their foreign legion. When their own citizens didn't value their nation important enough to play a role in its defense soon found their country in decline.

For decades the draft was only used to make up a shortfall in recruitment numbers. In peacetime the numbers were small. In times of conflict, when greater troop numbers were required the numbers of those drafted were increased. The use of deferments other than medical, C.O., only child and perhaps a few others was discriminatory, in particular the use of student deferments except in specialized programs. Generally college was not available to the poor citizens.

I have no problem with a legitimate medical deferment for a condition that would make the individual more of a liability than an asset to the warriors. Although I could see a special class of service where those who may not be in the best of health could serve honorably in CONUS, freeing up more able bodied individuals to take the field.

I do have a problem where individuals who actively seek out ways to avoid service by shopping for sympathetic doctors. If Trumps foot problems were real he would have been a liability and his deferment would be legitimate. But if they were exaggerated by a friendly doctor so that he could avoid service I will not express my feelings here. I'm especially disgusted by individuals who found ways to avoid service while their peers served and now because of their political position feel that they are more knowledgeable about how are military members are selected, trained and deployed than the professionals who have spent their lives in service.

By the way what amount of money is commensurate with risking ones life and limb, availability for duty 24/7/365 anywhere in the world?

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Mar 19 at 2020 8:09 AM

CPT Lawrence Cichelli — Thu, 19 Mar 2020 08:09:33 -0400

Its amazing when the media put out that Trump got a medical deferment from serving in Viet Nam, veeryone was up in arms, but the fact is Bill Clinton ran to Canada, and somehow that's OK??? Please explain that one!

Response by CPT William Jones made Mar 22 at 2020 6:16 PM

CPT William Jones — Sun, 22 Mar 2020 18:16:41 -0400

I believe a lot like the preceding person. If an individuals leaves before he is called I don’t like it but they have broken no law and it is their right to emmigrate. If they receive notice and leave that is criminal and they should have to spend jail time. What trump did was follow the law. Don’t like people like that but it is not illegal. FYI I did send over 6 years in service including 32 months in Vietnam as a combat engineer and advisor to ARVN.

Response by AB Edward Mondini made Mar 27 at 2020 1:36 AM

AB Edward Mondini — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 01:36:05 -0400

From my perch, I discovered the difference between the draft & an all-volunteer military boils down to a matter of quality.

The draft brought quantity.
Volunteerism brings quality.

How many people I saw were either drafted or signed up in another branch who were supremely unqualified to be in the military.

I would hope that’s what the Generals are thinking when they’re thinking about quarterly staffing quotas.

And to those who would add “the military is a the right environment for an immature individual to grow & mature”, I wholeheartedly agree........with one caveat: at least have some mentors available to help green horns gain their confidence when the time comes to “sink or swim”.

Finally, my thanks to SSG Seidel for a well-thought-out response.

Response by Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. made Mar 28 at 2020 7:45 PM

Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 19:45:20 -0400

I have always played by the rules and you can't assume that everyone who didn't go somehow broke the rules which is usually how the term "Draft Dodger" is generally used. Many were unfit to serve just as many leave Voluntary service involuntarily for medical issues even when they want to stay in. I know quite a few recruiters and hear many stories about the Recruits they tried so desperately to get into the Marine Corps and they failed enlistment for mental, physical and Scholastic reasons. Knowing that hundreds if not thousands every year get denied the right to voluntarily serve I have to imagine that if a real Draft were put into effect amazing numbers would fail the process. Point being thousands failed entry during the Draft for truly legitimate reasons even the one who were lying to get in. With that said you get to the next tier of 'Dodgers' rich kids is the usual term applied to those who found ways not to serve but many were no doubt bad candidates as well just like the thousands of poor kids. Education exemption was not just for rich kids but obviously there were huge disparity in College graduates based on paying for college. Money being a rare thing back in the 50s and 60s for poor kids wanting an education. At the end of the day it takes political connections to get into West Point, Air Force and Naval Academy. Why is it so hard for people to stomach that that same political clout can work the other way as well. Rich Senators kids always seem to get a Free Government Scholarship so why would it be a surprise that those same kids found exemptions not to serve? Its not the kid's fault that their parents have influence and they are found following in the wake of that influence. I don't hate them for it, hate the system or find a way to fix it but don't blame the President for his Father's influence. Back then Kid's actually listened to their parents and did what they were told.

Response by PO2 Steve Wikert made Apr 9 at 2020 2:08 AM

PO2 Steve Wikert — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 02:08:20 -0400

SSG Gerhard S. I am a Vietnam veteran who enlisted while still in High School under the delayed enlistment program. My brother was already in the service (enlisted) and my My Dad also enlisted and served in WWII. The Draft ran from 1940 (before Pearl Harbor) and ran continuously (even in peace time) until 1973. I would think that ANYBODY that has studied WWII and its magnitude would feel that we needed every person we could to serve in the military to stop the actual EVIL AXIS powers from dominating the earth. The same Nazis who murdered 7 million Jews. Also many people believe and have heard of the fantastic patriotism that was present within our nation during this period and how everybody stood up and wanted to be counted. NOT! There were 16 million Americans who served in the military during WWII and 10 million of them had to be drafted. We would all be speaking German and/or Japanese if we had only had 1/3 of the people or only 6 million Americans serve then (those that enlisted). Conscription into our military is an American duty that all of us should be willing to do out of patriotism and obligation to maintain freedom either in our own country or in the world. People who criticize our involvement in other parts of the world need to realize that WWII was never fought on our shores because we served in other parts of the world. If people believe that the draft or conscription is akin to slavery, that dooms our country's future if we were ever to see a world wide conflict similar to WWII. The draft must be thought of as a diplomatic nudge to our citizens who are hesitant to fulfill their dutiful obligations to their nation. Personally speaking in the last 30 years we probably should have had the draft during some of the times. It is unfair for us to ask our warriors to serve 2,3 and even 4 tours in a war zone. Either physically or mentally these people are paying for it now. Our country will be paying for it for generations.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Apr 9 at 2020 7:47 AM

PO2 Lawrence Janiec — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 07:47:48 -0400

The draft is something that the leaders of our country decided that was needed for the betterment of our country. Sort of like the orders for people to stay in their homes right now. If someone thought they were above those laws/policies (because they had money), then why should they be the ones to make the new laws or policies? It's an ethical issue at its core. Do you really want those who think they are too good to follow policies to make them?

Also, when one of the first elementary school shootings happened in 2017, POTUS said that if he were there he would "charge right in" to defend those children. (Paraphrasing, don't recall the actual quote) and then the first snippy answer given was, Well, if your legs are bad and you couldn't serve in the military, then how would your bad legs allow you to "charge right in"? The other snippy answer I had was, Sure he'd charge in, because he'd have a dozen or so Secret Service Agents armed to the teeth with him to protect him.....

I also find it sort of amusing that our current POTUS, who idolized Hitler, has his own SS.... (There was an article in Vanity Fair from the 90s about how he did, if you don't believe me, Google it. I was shocked when I first read it.)

Response by SPC Michael Tierney made Apr 11 at 2020 12:52 AM

SPC Michael Tierney — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 00:52:30 -0400

Isn’t that a wonderful crock of crap. We should all get to pick and choose which laws we abide by and which we avoid. I don’t think so. There was a draft for WWII. Do you really think we should have not had that? There was a lot of sentiment to stay out of the war.
It might have been wonderful that you were such a devoted patriot that you enlisted. I guess I wasn’t because I had zero interest in being in the military for three years. I decided to take my chances with the draft even though I knew my odds were very high that Vietnam was in my immediate future. But I was an invincible 20 year old. Bring it on.
Personally I think every person should serve in the military. Too few do now so they have no perspective on the realities of service. They think a flag in the lapel is the ultimate sign of patriotism.
If there is a draft and you decide to dodge it by using family connections, you don’t deserve any respect as a Commander in Chief. Just shut up and do your job. Don’t pander to the other draft dodgers with flag lapel pins.

Response by PO2 David Allender made Apr 11 at 2020 1:52 AM

PO2 David Allender — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 01:52:34 -0400

I have read the comments on this subject and made up my mind to respond. Many people have their own ideas about this. I look at it this way: A lot of us who served have nightmares about Nam. Those that didn't serve for whatever reason do not . To me they are very lucky. But I am proud to have served my country. To me it is a pity that they who found reasons not to serve did not think about serving their country, some how. I regret how Mohammed Ali was treated because of his religious beliefs,especially after seeing "HACKSAW RIDGE." I often wonder if Muhammad Ali was given that choise to serve as a medic before he was brought to court? We will not ever know though since the man has passed away. Well, that is my 2 cents worth. Now I am opened for comment. To all the vets, "WELCOME HOME FOLKS."

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Apr 13 at 2020 11:53 AM

1SG Patrick Sims — Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:53:21 -0400

The military isn't for everyone. That having been said, there should be national service of some kind. If not in a military uniform, there should be the option to work on our environment. Whether it be planting trees, or helping out during a natural disaster. I don't believe there should be any free rides, regardless of where you think you stand in our social system. As for the draft dodgers of the past. I did three combat tours in Vietnam, including over 900 days in the Mekong Delta. The past should be left in the past---life goes on---let it go.

Response by Cpl Des T made Apr 14 at 2020 1:26 PM

Cpl Des T — Tue, 14 Apr 2020 13:26:44 -0400

I think of it in this manner after many years of looking “down” at those who at first I considered cowards—but my approach has changed ...

1. Though to some reading this post may think of me naive to say, but everyone has their reason(s) for the actions/choices made in life and I’d prefer to think the reasons in most cases were in their best interests (family, health, fears, maturity/immaturity, etc)

2. I pose this question ... for the multitude of reasons just mentioned, wouldn’t you rather “fight” alongside those eager to do so for the ideologies and passion shared for our country—versus being in a foxhole with someone scared, sour or plainly put anti-war/military—especially when they’re in that foxhole by “force”?

Semper Fi & Aloha!

Response by Cpl Des T made Apr 15 at 2020 2:02 PM

Cpl Des T — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:02:20 -0400

Semper Fi and Mahalo! Excellent points and well thought out. I wish you and your family at home—and abroad the safest in travels, health and courageous challenges.

Response by SSG Michael Doolittle made Apr 15 at 2020 5:34 PM

SSG Michael Doolittle — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:34:56 -0400

I think you stated it very well.... Trump had a Doctor state a lie on his behalf, a statement that for all intents and purposes is "Under Penalty of Perjury"....

Response by SPC John Veenstra made Apr 16 at 2020 12:41 PM

SPC John Veenstra — Thu, 16 Apr 2020 12:41:05 -0400

My response to this issue is deeply personal and is going to take a lot of time to tell. So i apologize in advance for taking up so much room. Those of you who did not grow up with the draft cannot really understand what it was like. From the time I was old enough to comprehend such things, I knew about the draft. If you were male and physically fit you were going into the Army when you were 18. The only way to avoid it was to join one of the other services first. Growing up we never heard anything about deferments or draft dodgers. I was a Boomer, my Dad fought on Iwo Jima. He was awarded the navy cross and a purple heart. He and his brothers volunteered after Pearl Harbor. My Mom worked in a defense plant during the war. My Grandfather was an Air Raid Warden with Civil Defense. Before my mother met my Dad the first man she was engaged to was killed on the beach at Anzio. No one ever told us we had a choice, just turn 18 and serve period. I remember being quite young and hearing on the Radio that the war in Korea had ended. I thought okay there won't be a war when I serve. Ironically I heard on that same broadcast that said the president was sending troops to somewhere called Vietnam.
Fast forward to 1963 I turned 17. I went for my physical. At this time we were hearing about draft dodgers, draft card burners, deferments etc. We also heard about people going to Canada to avoid the draft. At my physical I was told that I was physically unfit for service. I asked am I 4F, we all knew what that meant. I was told no you are 1Y. I said what's that mean. I was told that I would only be called if a state of National emergency was declared. I did not get that either so the Sargent explained. He said it was like WWII where guys with glasses and other minor physical problems were not called until we needed men badly. The draft age was raised and the married exemption was revoked. Then he said look at it this way kid, if the Cubans invade Florida we'll give you a call.
Well I thought if someone invades America, even if you don't call me I'll buy a gun and fight. So I had already quit school to work full time, my Dad left us when I was 12. I was going to school and working too, it got rougher and rougher. Then they told me I would have to repeat my senior year, because I failed one subject. I said okay I'll go to summer school again, they said there was no summer school in our town that year. So I knew college was not for me, we did not have the money and my grades were never good enough for a scholarship. I was never good enough at sports for one of those either. So I quit school and got a good paying full time job to help support my Mom and me.
Okay so I am 17 and working full time. My Mom got remarried and did not need my money anymore. Well I was not going to be drafted and I met a girl we got married, got an apartment and set up a life.
President Johnson wanted to increase the troop level in Vietnam.
At this time the draft only had physical exemptions and educational exemptions. There was no Lottery. If you were in college you did not go. This was a choice made by the government under President Johnson not by college students. Was that fair to non students, of course not, but I already knew life was unfair. Other kids had 2 parents and nice houses and did not listen to the rats running through the walls as kids.
I get a letter to go down for another physical? I go and they run me through. I see guys from my neighborhood who were rejected at 17 because of their criminal records. Now they are over 18 and are being drafted because juvenile records don't count. At the end of the day they tell me Johnson declared a sate of emergency, all 1Y's are being drafted. I thought , oh shit who expected this. I knew guys were running away to Canada. Would I do that? Would I give up my citizenship as an American? Would I become a man without a country? Like hell I would, I'll go but the college boys still did not have to go. Those were the breaks it is what it is. Later that day we went to the reception center at fort Dix for processing. When we got there I spoke to a couple of other older guys an found out they were 1Y also. One of them had a heart murmur, 2 days in we double timed to the mess hall. This guy had a heart attack and I was later told he got a medical discharge.
Okay, so here I am pissed off, confused and worried about my wife, she had no job there were bills to pay , what was I to do.
We go in and fill out some paper work. One of these is a wish list, that's where you put what overseas posting you would like. I never have really figured out why I did what I did next. I looked at that thing and said " you people re-qualified and drafted me because of Vietnam so Damn it that's where I want to go!". I put Vietnam at the top of my list.
We had been told we would take basic at Dix because they had a basic school there. Next day 30 of us were told we were going to Fort Riley Kansas. The 30 of us talked and it turned out that each of us had put Vietnam on our list. When we arrived we were told we would train there with officers and NCO's who would go to Vietnam with us. The ninth was the last to go by ship as a division.
So now I come to the part where I think that an indiscriminate draft is not such a great idea. We were in a forward fire base. I was communications Artillery, I ran the board that relayed the coordinates for firing missions to the Firing batteries. This board was manned day and night the lives of the grunts in field depended on the ability of the artillery to fire the missions they called in. Men's lives depended on me doing my job. Many of these men I knew and respected. It was important and I was proud to do it. On two separate occasions two different men took over the night shift from me. Both of these men had made it clear they did not want to be here. Both times I was rousted out of the sack to take over the board. Both of those men had been drunk and sound asleep when calls need to go to the firing batteries to support grunts. I stood witness at both their court martial's for dereliction of duty in the face of the enemy. Men died because of these two, I can think of no greater crime. In addition they were 3 men on perimeter guard who were found stoned out of their minds when infiltrators came into the camp. They too received court martial's. The draft puts men like these in control of the lives of others that can't be right.
I read a book once that said all people in service should be volunteer combat troops. All other non combat jobs, truck drivers, cooks etc were civilians. I don't know if it would work but it sounds good.
So do I disrespect men who had legitimate deferments? Of course not they did not create the system, that would be as stupid as hating people that were born rich when I was born poor. The people I hate and have no respect for is the Government Administration that created such a system and started a war they never intended to win.
Okay all that said, I feel that those who gave up their citizenship to go to Canada made a legitimate choice. What I hate is the politicians who let them come back when it was over. More than 56,000 American's died so these people could come back and be citizens again? That is so wrong on so many levels. The ones that did not come back have my respect but not the slime that came crawling back.
I have all the respect in the world for those men and women volunteers out there serving us now. God Bless them all and God Bless America!!

Response by PO3 Michael Kidd made Apr 16 at 2020 3:12 PM

PO3 Michael Kidd — Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:12:50 -0400

Something I was raised with. My Country right or wrong ,my Country. My father was a WWII Marine Vet.

Response by CPL John Sutor made Apr 17 at 2020 10:55 PM

CPL John Sutor — Fri, 17 Apr 2020 22:55:26 -0400

So you think it's a type of servitude, thank God during ww11 no one felt it was servitude..we would all be speaking German. I myself enlisted in 1964 , MOS 111BP. 101st abn. We had draftees and they fought the good fight as good as the enlisted.
Our country needed us , we went .
Our fathers went when called in 1941 Normandy , North Africa, Guadalcanal, Germany, and so on .
They went and we went to Vietnam, let's not forget Korea . That said it is your duty to protect an defend the Country. And if you dont have the balls to do it stand aside and let the Warriors handle the problem.
" Those that stay abed on this day will hold their manhood cheap "
Shakespeare. " We few we happy few for those that shed their blood with me shall be my Brother ".
So my feeling is that this so called commander in chief, is not a leader ,hasn't the slightest clue of what it takes to command the services. His daddy got his punk ass out with some bullshit Heel spur story. 58000 + names on the Vietnam monument tells me that he could have answered the call ,even if he became a cook or a desk jockey anywhere in the world ,but no his ass wasn't about to go. Yet he reaps the benefits of some that had fought and protected his ass when he was a 19 year old mommy's boy.
There cant be any type of Mutual Respect for this guy. I think he is an intruder of the WH , and dose not deserve the title of commander in chief.
Mutual Respect to all Veterans.
John Sutor
Aco 2nd 502nd 101st Abn , Vietnam 1966.

Response by CPT Richard Kosinski made Apr 25 at 2020 11:03 AM

CPT Richard Kosinski — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:03:28 -0400

How about one year of "national service," not necessarily in the military, as repayment for living in our "great country," without regarding it as involuntary servitude/slavery? I respect "conscientious objectors." But I have no respect for poor little rich kids whose father got some doctor to falsify a report. This has gone on since the Civil War. In the meantime real poor kids die in their place. Bribing politicians through political contributions is "legal" as defined by those politicians to keep the money rolling in. So what is "legal" may not necessarily be moral.

Response by SSG Franklin Briant made Apr 26 at 2020 6:12 PM

SSG Franklin Briant — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:12:26 -0400

I believe that everyone is or has an opinion on the subject. I know this for fact Mr. Trump may have used the legal means to avoid service that is what is available. He did not go to London and seek protection in the Russia like another president did. The others that were pardoned by Mr. Carter I have nothing for. Our system, the one that many of us defended allows the actions that we are discussing. As I said before to each their own but if you are going to dis one then dis them all.

Response by SPC Bryan Gustafson made Apr 26 at 2020 6:52 PM

SPC Bryan Gustafson — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:52:27 -0400

We should all feel an innate sense of patriotism and should have an inherent desire to serve this Nation when called upon to do so. The "draft" was exactly that, a call to serve, albeit involuntary. As evidenced by the actions of the draft dodgers, such a sense of patriotism is not innate. What stirs me to anger more than the draft dodgers' unlawful actions by evading the draft was the draft dodgers being pardoned by President James Earl Carter. Just one of the several less than stellar accomplishments attributed to him while serving as president.

Response by SPC Mark Spivey made Apr 26 at 2020 7:19 PM

SPC Mark Spivey — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:19:08 -0400

I am not a fan of draft dodgers or people that used their privilege to avoid service. Some pre enlistment deferments made a lot of sense particularly those with severe medical issues. I personally think this was a mistake not requiring people with minor health ailments to serve. There are many jobs in all the branches of service that could be done by people who have the limitations that would keep them out of combat. As far as the job of The President, I believe that person should have military experience of some kind. The person at the top of the chain of command should have military experience , understand exactly what is at stake when putting Americans in harms way. I also believe in some form of mandatory service for all Americans either after high school or if enrolled at college then after college separation. I think two years active and two in a reserve status would be ideal for all. I think military service has important rewards that are not necessarily monetary but socially rewarding as you learn how to work and live with people that may not be similar to you or from your part of the country. Most people leave the military better citizens than they were before service. The country would also benefit with a constant flow of personnel into the military, there should be a branch for individuals who are not physically able or pacifists to work on our countries infrastructure or disaster relief type jobs.

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made Apr 26 at 2020 7:43 PM

SSG Ken Gilder — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:43:57 -0400

For those that ran off to Canada, to avoid service during the Vietnam era, I have nothing but contempt and disdain. More contempt and disdain for Jimmy Carter (A Naval Academy graduate), for issuing them a blanket pardon. (And for giving away the Panama Canal, now being operated by the Communist Chinese.)

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made Apr 26 at 2020 7:50 PM

SSG Ken Gilder — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:50:45 -0400

For those that ran off to Canada, to avoid service during the Vietnam era, I have nothing be contempt and disdain. For Jimmy Carter (a Naval Academy graduate), who issued a blanket pardon for them (And gave away the Panama Canal, which is now operated by red China), even more contempt and disdain.

Response by SGT Richard Mitchell made Apr 27 at 2020 12:17 AM

SGT Richard Mitchell — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 00:17:11 -0400

The draft did cause some havoc in many a young man's life... think of it, there were only three choices for an able-bodied man: serve; go to jail; or, leave the country. If one did not have a deferment (university/specialized training, such as for morticians) or a medical/mental issue, then one was "in line" to serve. I graduated college in June, 1968, (a few months after the major Tet Offensive in Feb.), and two weeks after graduation, I received a notice for the "pre-induction" physical. If you passed that, your place "in line" was assured! The "draft lottery" did not come into effect until Dec., 1969. But, I was not averse to serving in the military, I just wanted to have some choice. I had taken Russian and German in college, so I looked into military intelligence options. OK, one could say I was a "draft-induced" volunteer, but I showed up and scoped out my options with a recruiter. I signed up for three years, went in for MI training and I have never regretted that choice. Also, I served with the finest group of fellows I would ever have hoped to have met on this green Earth! Some people do like the idea of the "great equalizer" that the military is... everyone has to do the same, no one is special, and you have to watch out for each other. My basic training sergeant in basic training stated there were only two colors in the Army: the colors you salute and OD! Yes, life is only better and a gift for sure after you've marched all day in rain and mud, bivouacked in 15 degrees below zero, hopped to doing whatever your sergeant said. And, luckily, I was never in a war zone, but most of my cadre were Korean War vets... and. they suffered no fools! Our SDI (senior drill instructor), E-7, was in the wars in Korea and Vietnam, and had always been in the infantry. All of us recruits felt that if we went to war, that was the guy we wanted to go with... he'd bring you back!

Response by Emmett Jordan made Apr 27 at 2020 8:58 AM

Emmett Jordan — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:58:26 -0400

I am proud of my Uncle Joe Flynn, locomotive engineer of the Milwaukee Road Railroad, who brought many people from the Spokane, Washington rail yard, up to Canada. Plus his son-in-law doing dangerous mining and nuclear engineer work in the USA. Uncle Joe, named for the Chief of the Nez Perce Indian Tribe!

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Apr 27 at 2020 9:21 AM

MSG Felipe De Leon Brown — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:21:59 -0400

Your argument is, IMHO, vey valid for the most part. However, while I don't think that the draft has ever been fair, I believe that like many other choices we face, to answer the call or to avoid it is a matter of conscious. Muhammad Ali, for example, refused to serve and was unfairly ostracized. President Clinton took advantage of the Rhodes Scholarship he had earned and although criticized turned out to be a good president for the nation. The current occupant of the Presidency, however, not only was a "draft dodger", he falsified the excuse to not serve and, to make matters less palatable for those of us who were in uniform during that era, he ridiculed the very people who, by their sacrifices, allowed him to party and chase snatch. He had an opportunity to at least serve the nation voluntarily and he didn't. I have always had a problem with people who are derisive of others because of their service and that individual is no exception. One more thing; How can ANY self-respecting veteran continue to support someone who disrespects a Gold Star family, a former POW or, for that matter, any veteran who has served honorably? I have a litany of issues with any individual who dodged the draft and still insults us who served.

Response by SGT Herbert Bollum made Apr 27 at 2020 12:42 PM

SGT Herbert Bollum — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:42:31 -0400

I was eligible for the draft to go to VN. I was low on the lottery and had a 1-Y classification, so I did not volunteer. Later (1976) after they had pulled out I decided that I would like to join as both of my brothers had. I am glad I did even though now I am still fighting with VA over disabilities.

Response by SFC Jeff Duncan made Apr 27 at 2020 7:52 PM

SFC Jeff Duncan — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:52:41 -0400

I had the great fortune to run into Jane Fonda in a upscale club in Atlanta when she was married to Ted Turner. I had had one to many teqkillyou shots that a friend was buying copious amounts of. My father was Special Forces in Vietnam and I remember meeting my dad for the first time when he left Vietnam after second tour in Naples Italy. They kept him there for 3 years while he became civilized again. I remember listening to he and my mother “ who also was career Army” talk about Fonda and Kerry, so when I had her in my sights and very limited control of expressing my feelings I let her have it with both barrels and she had no doubt of my disgust and disdain for her. I felt my pop’s laughing from on high. I had a mixed audience in the club, I feel I got more claps then boo’s.

Response by SSG Michael Noll made Apr 27 at 2020 8:06 PM

SSG Michael Noll — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:06:00 -0400

Thank you for a very well thought out post that helps me with some of my feelings on the same subject. I agree with your guidelines. Again thank you for your post brother Gerhard.

Response by SGT Bob Knox made Apr 28 at 2020 12:44 PM

SGT Bob Knox — Tue, 28 Apr 2020 12:44:31 -0400

If you dodge the draft you should not be allowed to live in this country .......

Response by COL Jon Lopey made May 1 at 2020 10:17 PM

COL Jon Lopey — Fri, 01 May 2020 22:17:26 -0400

As a Viet Nam Era veteran I think it was fundamentally wrong to purposely avoid the draft because our nation needed us and service was an obligation at the time; however, I don't hold disdain against those folks because there were deferments and "loopholes" that made it relatively easy to avoid service depending on the year and some did not avoid service deliberately but more by circumstance. Some people served by going into the Peace Corps and others I knew joined ROTC in college but never went on active duty. Others served in the National Guard or reserves. Serving was a privilege and a defining period of my life. I feel sorry for most of the people that did not have the opportunity and honor of serving during that time. Some had bad experiences but I had mostly good ones. I was in the USMC and I benefited greatly from my tour of duty. COL L

Response by 1SG John Highfill made May 2 at 2020 6:53 AM

1SG John Highfill — Sat, 02 May 2020 06:53:36 -0400

I used to not like them but time has let me forgive

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made May 2 at 2020 3:53 PM

PO1 Mike Wallace — Sat, 02 May 2020 15:53:33 -0400

I enlisted in 1964 voluntarily and over my time served with a lot of people who had received draft notices. I went to recruiting duty a couple of months after the end of the draft. It was tough but we did well.
The American citizen has enjoyed freedoms, opportunities, and security that has been the envy of the world. All to many of them believe their luck in being born here gives them all America has and they should not be expected to do anything for what others earned and protected. I believe they are wrong.
The draft is not slavery and if you believe it is, you don't have a singular clue what slavery actually is!!! One of the problems with the draft was the way it was mismanaged. Within my family my dad worked like hell but didn't make a lot. Going to college was beyond our fiscal reach. So I enlisted knowing the draft would get me and wanted to go on my terms. My cousin who was a year older had a father who was a senior executive with TWA. He stayed in college for nearly 8 years after high school. He avoided the draft. The exemption system favored the well off and of course insured the politicians passing the exemptions would not have their child having to serve, just enjoy the benefits of America.
And as far as servitude goes, yup I served my nation and its people and proud of it. If thats servitude color me guilty but don't imply I or any other service member were slaves

Response by TSgt Robert Moore made May 2 at 2020 10:07 PM

TSgt Robert Moore — Sat, 02 May 2020 22:07:21 -0400

I don't see a reason to be upset with people that "dodged the draft". Most had their reasons for dodging it. By the time I graduated from high school and attended a couple of years of college the draft was unnecessary. I did, however, join on my own and served 20 years.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made May 3 at 2020 11:42 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Sun, 03 May 2020 23:42:55 -0400

I don't agree with your basic premise. But I respect that it is a thought out one.

Response by SSG Strick Richardo made May 11 at 2020 1:40 AM

SSG Strick Richardo — Mon, 11 May 2020 01:40:25 -0400

no, not at all. avoiding the draft because you don't agree to an unjust war, i think that is a great virtue. but those who had money and faked a medical condition like a bone spur to dodge the draft is a coward.

Response by TSgt Lloyd Deem made May 15 at 2020 6:29 PM

TSgt Lloyd Deem — Fri, 15 May 2020 18:29:04 -0400

let it go, those who dodged the draft are in their 70's now it is done and over with.

Response by SFC Albert Green made May 16 at 2020 6:31 PM

SFC Albert Green — Sat, 16 May 2020 18:31:38 -0400

SFC Albert A. Green. I often see someone my age and he will not make eye contact or look the other way, I ware my V N. Hat most of the time. I wonder how he lives with what he did and what does he say to his grandkids when they ask why he wasn’t in the war.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made May 18 at 2020 1:14 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Mon, 18 May 2020 01:14:42 -0400

Most of those people as 60+ years old. Forget 'em, forgive 'em. The spilled milk has been mopped up during the Carter Administration.

Response by SGT Nathan Hanna made May 20 at 2020 3:50 PM

SGT Nathan Hanna — Wed, 20 May 2020 15:50:42 -0400

I am not of the Vietnam era but my father enlisted to avoid the draft and I myself have grown up in the army as he decided to make a career out of it. I joined myself and cannot imagine having a soldier who is absolutely unmotivated due to draft conditions. While I see your point about the arguments for and against a draft, I have to take a different view. I believe that if we were to have a national service requirement on everyone regardless of anything that a draft would no longer be servitude but a requirement. Not all of population needs to serve in the military, there are a great number of good places to utilize the national service people. Habitat for Humanity always needs people along with many schools that are run by tax dollars needing unskilled labor for free. If a person with power and privilege is rejected from this system then they are not to be respected or even cared for by our society. If we can find ways for those with disabilities to improve and benefit the society then why should we allow detractors to use us. I believe that the draft of Vietnam along with the other actions both for and against have left our society hurting for a way of allowing the people feel connected to the national outlook and direction. This alienation stems from the unfair draft policy meant to protect the powerful and rich. While those that left chose to do so and with that choice they need to continue to suffer, while those that used the system I will say that I am disappointed. But alas the system has lots of abuses built into it. If we take out the injustice then we can really let the people who choose to leave be forever dismissed from our society.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2020 10:56 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2020 10:56:37 -0400

I don't believe we should. As a 30 yr veteran I feel like the Military is something that you have to feel! If you force the unwilling to enter service, their heart won't be in it, and it could get good soldiers killed. Let the little whining draft dodgers stay at home with their parents, while the real patriots protect them and their freedoms!!

MSG R Gates (Ret)

Response by SFC Leon Amer made May 29 at 2020 2:00 PM

SFC Leon Amer — Fri, 29 May 2020 14:00:07 -0400

Folks who absconded to Canada or anywhere else outside the US should not have been allowed back across the border. Let them start their new lives in their new country just like the steerage-class immigrants coming from Europe did here, with only their skills and what they carried with them. One example - musical group Heart. Don't tell me they couldn't have made it just as big north of the border as they did when they returned to the US.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2020 7:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2020 19:45:54 -0400

My heartburn over some of those folks who managed to avoid military service during Vietnam is that now some of them now play the role of modern super patriots slobbering all over and pandering to the troops. Let's face it, back than there were countless ways to not be selected for or get called up for military service. It was even that way during both World Wars and the Korean War. So Vietnam was no different in that regard. The biggest difference was the attitude of the country as a whole that eventually played a role in ending active conscription. That attitude against conscription still exists in many people today. CCRs song "Fortunate Son" is very appropriate with regard to the discussion about those who did and didn't serve during Vietnam.

Response by SGT Lou Meza made Jun 1 at 2020 3:26 PM

SGT Lou Meza — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 15:26:11 -0400

The vast majority of those who were drafted were not any senator’s son .

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2020 12:33 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 00:33:33 -0400

I think we should have compulsory service in this country! There are many people who make decisions for and about the military that make no sense for those serving (such as in field repair of vehicles voiding the warranty) so contractors have to do even minor repairs that those we train as mechanics should be able to do. These decisions do however line their pockets. Many Congressmen have properties in places they have no intention of living on for the sole purpose of collecting farming benefits on land they never have nor will farm. Welfare fraud. Oh right it's not welfare because they own farm land-the hypocrisy!! I think it is a stretch to compare a draft to slavery, it is in fact offensive- damn a definition! Freedom is not free and in time of need if people do not volunteer then they have to be volunteered! There is an end to military service, women do not get drafted, people are paid, have health care and housing. Slavery comparison? -you can do better! Trump inherited lots of property in New York that escalated in value. He was also given lots of seed money and started with connections to those in the know who knew his father and the Trump name. Not mad at all just need the record to be clear so people stop pushing that underlying "smart" because he is a self-made millionaire rhetoric like they did with Kylie Jenner-to justify voting for such an irresponsible person. When people show you who they are- BELIEVE them!! Do you think if he, the man who loves to bragg had anywhere near a billion dollars he would not be rubbing it in everyone's faces?? Still waiting for NYC to get and share those tax returns...

Response by SP5 Richard Johnson made Jun 5 at 2020 11:22 AM

SP5 Richard Johnson — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 11:22:21 -0400

I was RA in 67 and very proud of it. This picture of me was taken in Nam and it was about 110 degrees. For those who don’t like fighting or supporting your country I believe that if they make the choice to leave our great nation, then they should stay away forever. I don’t hate them, I just feel sorry for there lack of understanding.

Response by SP6 Kenneth Belisle made Jun 6 at 2020 4:05 PM

SP6 Kenneth Belisle — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 16:05:32 -0400

I had an occupational deferment 7 years due to the government contracts I was working on. One day, I asked my employer for a raise to which he responded with "Do you want a raise or another deferment?" WTF?? By then I knew that once you had been deferred, your eligibility for the draft went from 26 to 36 years old. So now, the decision was to stay there working for the same money for the next 10 years or go in the military. I told him he could shove his deferment up his ass and walked out. Called my local draft board when I got home and was told that they had pulled my file and that my draft notice would be going out in tomorrow's mail. And so in 1967, I was drafted. Ended up spending 10 years in the Army and ETS'd in December of 1977.

Response by Wayne Soares made Jun 14 at 2020 9:31 AM

Wayne Soares — Sun, 14 Jun 2020 09:31:05 -0400

Awesome share and thanks for your service

Response by SSgt Richard Carl Reimann made Jun 18 at 2020 10:54 AM

SSgt Richard Carl Reimann — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:54:28 -0400

It is water over the wheel now. Many did. & certainly many who were in congress did. .
To stop that ever happening again just have no deferments. Everyone serve 4 Yrs. no matter what. even if it behind a desk or as a cook. Even if in a wheel chair.. The handicap you will find work harder
Thank you Mrs Veronica M Reimann

Response by TSgt David Olson made Jun 20 at 2020 1:06 PM

TSgt David Olson — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 13:06:32 -0400

I’m upset with the politicians who wrote the exclusions, read loopholes, for the draft. Educational deferments, crap. Israeli law requires all men and women to serve for two years. They can go to school after their military service. Switzerland has a universal draft for all males. The country mandates that all serving males take home their weapon home when finished with active duty. Males are automatically place in a reserve status and are required to fire once a month. In Korea, 63-64, one of my duties was to provide security for the Swiss and Swede observers to the UN at their compound at Pan Mun Jom. I ran into one of the Swiss officers, a Captain, when I was later in Vietnam. He didn’t particularly like being a “neutral”. He was taking a tour prior to returning to Switzerland. The “dodgers” played a very flawed system, but isn’t that what the US is all about, “playing the system to one’s advantage”?

Response by Cpl Ray Frigerio made Jun 23 at 2020 12:30 PM

Cpl Ray Frigerio — Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:30:35 -0400

Well Said! Conscripts do not always have their hearts in it and I will never criticize a " draft dodger " because they all have different reasons for doing so .
I notice that many of the same people that call trump a "dodger " said nothing about Clinton's deferments and themselves either weren't old enough to be drafted then , never served at all and even protested the draft in the 60's .
Besides , trump was ostensibly a Democrat in the days .

Response by CW4 Abdulaziz Bulling made Jun 28 at 2020 10:39 AM

CW4 Abdulaziz Bulling — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 10:39:33 -0400

My father served in the Philippines in WW2, i served during the Vietnam War through Desert Storm, my son served in Iraq and is still serving. I have no patience for draft dodgers thought it is their right. Some gave all, all gave some, one had bone spurs.

Response by SSG Dennis R. made Jun 28 at 2020 5:58 PM

SSG Dennis R. — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 17:58:12 -0400

The draft-dodgers who left the country and stayed gone, as well as those choosing whatever penalty the courts handed out rather than serving, I have no argument, they've served their time. Carter pardoned them anyway. I'm a bit less troubled by Clinton - Rhodes Scholar - than I am with others, like the current occupant of the Oval Office, who avoided service with phony documentation.
The draft is long ago and far away. It's not something I dwell on. I never registered, having enlisted at 17.

Response by PO2 Tim Hawks made Jul 9 at 2020 10:40 PM

PO2 Tim Hawks — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 22:40:45 -0400

I consider a draft dodger as someone who skipped out illegally or burned their draft card and didn’t report. If they got a deferment I don’t consider that a draft dodger.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Jul 12 at 2020 11:00 AM

GySgt William Hardy — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 11:00:19 -0400

There is a huge difference between a draft dodger and a person who lawfully utilized deferments such as college and those that received medical deferments. I entered during the time when there was a draft. I had little respect for those that dodged the draft by taking off for Canada and other countries. On the other hand, I understand the need for college educated people to enter the service. Remember, not every officer goes to an academy. The ranks are full of men and women who got their education on their own. The deferment, as I understand it, ends when the college education ends. It then can give the person the option of attending OCS or serving the 2 years as a draftee. I was OK with that. Plus the government just saved the cost of educating someone. People like Trump got both. He was attending college, but he also had bone spurs in his foot. I checked this out some time back. Bone spurs are one of those ailments that may or may not be a problem in the future. When drafted, everyone is a potential foot soldier. Several medical boards came to agree that in his case it was better to exempt him than to draft him. Unless someone has proof to the contrary, I do not consider him a draft dodger. I don't think that several military medical boards were taking bribes. It was a medical opinion.

Response by CW2 Larry Fisher made Jul 12 at 2020 4:18 PM

CW2 Larry Fisher — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 16:18:04 -0400

It's Not that I could and you couldn't, it's that I did and you didn't

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Jul 12 at 2020 4:28 PM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 16:28:32 -0400

imagine a draft dodger acting all patriotic by hugging the flag while vilifying all those who served. And we still have retards veterans supporting donald lying trump

Response by Paula Minger made Jul 12 at 2020 10:43 PM

Paula Minger — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:43:47 -0400

Well said. But I’m not sure an all volunteer Military is working well enough to keep it going.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Jul 13 at 2020 11:34 AM

SPC John Tacetta — Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:34:52 -0400

By avoid the draft, I assume you are talking about the Vietnam War, so my comments are limited to that conflict, but in a nutshell: no.

I was too young to serve at that time, but was standing in formation in 1976. That said, I admire Muhammed Ali for taking a public stand and understand those who used deferments as a means to avoid the draft or ran to Canada once those ran out. That's ancient history and the country has officially reconciled with those who refused the call. What repels me are the hypocritical politicians who took those deferments and have wrapped themselves in the flag and are now so cavalier about sending our troops into harm's way, rabbits who now fashion themselves hawks.

In response to your feeling that the draft constitutes a form of slavery, I think you're looking at the issue improperly. The citizen-soldier is a distinctly American concept and a 6 year term of service for every male citizen is enshrined in the constitution. It is your obligation as an American citizen to serve for the greater good of this country. You do not exist apart from your family, community or country and all that you enjoy derives from those relationships. Service is neither slavery or involuntary servitude, it is your duty.

Response by CPL Dennis Bodofsky made Jul 14 at 2020 8:56 AM

CPL Dennis Bodofsky — Tue, 14 Jul 2020 08:56:09 -0400

If the country needs you. go

Response by SGT Jim Wiseman made Jul 15 at 2020 5:20 PM

SGT Jim Wiseman — Wed, 15 Jul 2020 17:20:30 -0400

I have heard that the draft has not been used since Vietnam because the practice of forcing someone to serve against their will means they don't want to be there and therefore the attitude alone means they give pi** poor performance.
You'll be familiar with the Stop Loss program used in Iraq. I've been told it yielded pretty much the same result. Forcing even senior NCO's and officers to remain and extending their contracts breeds resentment and giving bonuses does little to mollify the voluntolds.
I myself was a late-life entry into the Army, joining when I was nearly 37. When the economy dropped out in 2008-2009, I was facing another long period of unemployment and I decided I needed a life change. I knew that the Army was accepting those up to 42 years old having raised the age limit. The recruiters were seeing an abundance of volunteers coming in approaching or past the age of 36 wanting to "do their part." They had to be turned down even if they hadn't passed 36 but would before finalization of the process. Making it a permanent consideration for the military to accept those willing volunteers at least for the Army is something that can battle the poor attitudes of those forced into service via the draft. I saw more than a few people who volunteered and then wanted to flat-out quit once the realization of what they had done had hit them. From the first weeks of Basic up to having been deployed and having trouble coping with constant fire coming into a COP or FOB.
I personally know an SFC who cracked under pressure during what was his AND my first deployment. He was afraid to go shower or go to chow hall. He did it as a line Company PSG and then again when given the position of PSG for BN PSD. We all know that no one can tell who or when some will "snap." Some may shine when they come in as a draftee and not regret the experience, as you yourself stated. But the draft seems to carry a stigma that if invoked again, will trigger at least a tiny knee-jerk reaction in a bad way for the males who are eligible. No matter how the government dresses it up by referring to it as "Selective Service," people will still know it as the draft. I can still remember when in the '80's, when telling young men to register for it, the commercial had an upbeat jingle and dancing actors as if that's what you would be doing once inducted.
I think from now on, we will be drawing from volunteers if they feel "the cause is right." I hope we will never see another event on the scale of either Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to draw willing participants. If we should though, our history as and pride as a nation seem to rally people to the cause. Let's hope that pride hasn't eroded too much lately!

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made Jul 20 at 2020 4:29 PM

SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:29:36 -0400

how long do you want to stay pissed off

Response by PFC Kimberly Staiti made Jul 22 at 2020 1:13 AM

PFC Kimberly Staiti — Wed, 22 Jul 2020 01:13:54 -0400

I am a female veteran and I don't have much to add. I agree completely. An all-volunteer force means we all want to be here.

The problem I see is that cash talks.

If we don't have enough volunteers (because they are so out of shape that it's dangerous for them to attempt Basic Training or Boot Camp.

We already use contractors. We have since 2003, at least. My brother in law is an Army veteran who repaired choppers for $20, 25k a year. He signed on as a contractor in Iraq doing the same job for ten times the money. They work right by the military, so the camaraderie still exists.

Are you concerned about developing a warrior culture separate from everyone else that does our fighting for us.? (For a price.)

The dilemma is one I hope that we won't face, but I feel we need to address it.

Hired guns don't take an oath. There are so many veterans seething because Putin put a bounty on US military service members to the Taliban fighters and after POTUS was informed, he tried to get Russia in the G7& failed but still invited Putin to visit. That's when our POTUS seemed to establish his bromance with the leader of a superpower. Regardless, we must change his mind!

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made Jul 28 at 2020 3:31 AM

CPO Jack De Merit — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 03:31:24 -0400

There is a big difference between those who DODGED THE DRAFT and those who received deferments. The Draft Dodgers were the ones who rioted, spit on returning Veterans and ran like little babies to Canada. When I returned via plane to LAX after my fourth deployment to Vietnam, I was greeted by a dimwit at the airport who spit on my shoes to honor my uniform. I walked up close to him after calling me a woman and baby killer, pointed down at my shoes and asked him why he spit on them. Because you are a baby killer her yelled. I told him to look at the spit on my shoes and asked him if he would wipe it off because I was not a baby killer. When he looked down I gave him an upper cut that broke his jaw and knocked him out. Two of his friends hurried over to an airport guard and accused me of Assault and Battery. Three different older gentlemen stepped up to the guard and told him that it was the other way around. The injured man had assaulted me and I just defended myself against someone who was 6 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier than I. After everything was cleared away I asked the three men why they had defended me. They started by thanking me for my service and said that they had all served in World War II. I thanked them for their service and for defending me with the guard.

I am sorry to say that most of my male cousins took off for Canada. The two who didn't were both medically unfit to serve. My aunts and uncles asked me why I enlisted. I told them to pay my country back for all the benefits and freedoms that I received because I was born in the U.S.A. and did not have to earn them. That was why I did six tours in Vietnam and remained in the Navy for 28 years and 9 months.

Response by 1LT Voyle Smith made Jul 29 at 2020 4:20 PM

1LT Voyle Smith — Wed, 29 Jul 2020 16:20:50 -0400

I'll chime in (and probably wish I hadn't). I've always considered myself a draft dodger. I enlisted in the Infantry to dodge the draft. Sounds crazy, but it's true. A person who was drafted in the 1960s lost all control over his life: he had to present himself at a place and time of someone else's choosing and be transported to a place that he didn't want to be and stay for as long as someone else wanted him to stay. And he had to do things that he didn't want to do - all on penalty of imprisonment if he chose to disobey. By enlisting, I avoided all of that unpleasantness: I got to choose my preferred branch of service and the date on which I would leave my place of employment; I got to make orderly arrangements for my (then) wife to leave the city in which we lived and to travel to her parents' home in Scotland. I got to dispose of my personal possessions in an orderly fashion. I enjoyed the respect of my family and friends and got to smile at my reflection in the mirror each morning instead of cursing the arrival of a new day. The decision to choose the Infantry followed a logical path: I wanted to return to my position as a civilian employee of the Air Force because I enjoyed the work and was on a training program that offered the opportunity to build a career to which I could dedicate 30 years and retire with a defined pension while having at least half of my health insurance cost paid by my employer. I had to return to my position within 48 months to resume employment. That ruled out the Air Force, if I wanted a commissioning program: that commitment would have been 52 months. The Navy would have required 58 months, including flying training at Pensacola. The Army commitment was for only 30 months. But why the Infantry, you say? Because the recruiter said I could get a guaranteed OCS class date if I chose a combat arm: Armor, Artillery or Infantry. I'm 6'3". I didn't think I'd fit in a tank, and I didn't really want to drag heavy artillery around a battlefield, so that left the Infantry. And it all came together pretty much as I had hoped it would: I raised my hand on 21 Jan 1966 and returned home on 15 Nov 1968. I served only a year in combat, and got back without too much damage done; lost a few pounds - about 25 - but they came back soon enough. The marriage that cratered wouldn't have lasted anyway: I'm conservative, she was liberal; I'm a Christian, she was agnostic; I wanted kids and she preferred the pill. Three years after we split, I met & married the daughter of a WWII vet, who had been a tank gunner and participated in the Battle of the Bulge. She's 11 years younger than I am and a devout Christian; she loves kids, is a fantastic cook and is a whole lot better looking. Our courtship was pretty brief: met in early July and married at the end of October in 1975.
As to authentic draft dodgers: I'm grateful not to be one of them. I pity their cowardice and disapproved of the pardon they received. They have to live with their decision and try to explain to their kids why they never served. I have no regrets for the decisions I made and would do it all again.

Response by SMSgt Billy Cesarano made Aug 5 at 2020 9:31 PM

SMSgt Billy Cesarano — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 21:31:39 -0400

How did we get to a draft anyway? History is a funny thing. You can't really change it but, it can be ignored, repeated and used against you. Draft dodger- friend or foe? It's sorta like asking what to do when a drug dealer goes to the police to file charges on a person that just robbed him of his drugs. I was ready and rearing to enlist without a number but the draft ended before I turned 17. The draft, which was by all measures an unconstitutional forced servitude, was enacted by the Burke-Wadsworth Act, under FDR and his democrat majority in the House and Senate in September of 1940 at the behest of one Secretary of War, Henry Lewis Stimson(Now there's someone worthy of further discovery). Worse than the draft was the penalties of non compliance and of the "Conscientious Objectors"(Cassius Clay anyone?). C.O. Camps of forced labor and no pay made up mostly of Quakers. The 5-6 thousand imprisoned were mostly Jehovah's witnesses. Initially, blacks were exempted due to racist ignorance of their potential by democrats.
I mention this as part of the 'ignore and repeat' lesson. Almost 80 years later this is still a topic. All those that imposed the draft act on the citizens of the US are dead and gone but the effect of what they did is still being dealt with. That is not the principles by which this country is founded on. It shows one example of how long the agenda to enslave Americans has endured with democrats. What the American people must understand is who and what the people are that they elect to office. I'm afraid we've been lied to, betrayed and deceived so long we can't tell when the truth is being told.
My opinion? An all volunteer force with high standards, is the only way. Use positive incentives, not negative like the democrats did. If the effort is honorable, the volunteers will be there.

Response by SGT Rafael Morales made Aug 17 at 2020 11:59 AM

SGT Rafael Morales — Mon, 17 Aug 2020 11:59:44 -0400

I was drafted and I went willingly to serve because as a Cuban born citizen. I love freedom.

Response by SGT Rafael Morales made Aug 17 at 2020 12:00 PM

SGT Rafael Morales — Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:00:21 -0400

If your country needs you, you go.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Aug 21 at 2020 5:36 PM

SSG Paul Headlee — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:36:14 -0400

We all live here and you don't do that without benefiting from it. I've been around the world a bit and say with all sincerity that this is the absolute best place you could possibly live, work, raise a family, etc. I love my country and my freedom, rights and privileges with all my heart. This stuff isn't free. Those who have gone before us served, suffered and sacrificed to provide it. Obviously military service did not generate the riches of this country but without military service those riches would belong not to us but to a hardier race of men. As citizens of this, the best country to ever exist, we owe a debt. I say that if you CAN serve you SHOULD serve.

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Aug 25 at 2020 8:29 AM

SFC Mark Klaers — Tue, 25 Aug 2020 08:29:50 -0400

If you fit into a recognized category that exempts you from service, then so be it. If YOU have a problem with that, then work politically to have those deferments removed. Until then, mind your damn business.
Those of you who blatantly turned your back on your country should be turning big rocks into little rocks still today. I don't see the difference between you and Jane Fonda.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2020 1:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Aug 2020 13:05:17 -0400

Since this just popped up in my notifications I’d just like to add that anyone who tries holding legal deferments against Pres. Trump can’t say crap this cycle if they don’t hold it against Biden.

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Sep 6 at 2020 6:12 PM

SSG Jess Peters — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 18:12:18 -0400

I would not care to serve alongside the kind of men that dodged the draft.

Response by SPC Ted Hunt made Sep 6 at 2020 9:20 PM

SPC Ted Hunt — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 21:20:20 -0400

I will never forget and I will never forgive. I'm old RA United States Army.

Response by Capt Edward Egan made Sep 17 at 2020 4:07 PM

Capt Edward Egan — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:07:18 -0400

While we had the draft it was the law, so compliance was required. I'm not upset with those who gamed the system, but I don't agree with them. For those who refused and accepted the consequences, I have disagreement, but respect. Those who cut and ran, however, deserve nothing but scorn. Carter's first act as President was an act of treason, when he pardoned the draft dodgers and brought them home from Canada and elsewhere.

Response by LTC Scott Sossaman made Sep 21 at 2020 7:12 PM

LTC Scott Sossaman — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 19:12:07 -0400

A military draft unless compulsory for everyone regardless of physical or mental condition, doesn't fit either definition. Even during the Great Wars, Korean and Vietnam Wars, there were numerous legal ways to get a deferment. Most European countries until recently, had compulsory military service, but you could still get out of it. Even the old Soviet Empire had compulsory service, yet studies have shown that only about 75% of it's eligible male citizenry served. Registration for the draft is still compulsory for all males at 18 years of age and there is growing agreement that women should also register. The only way we would actually invoke the draft at this point, was if our nations survival was at risk.

Response by Brian Smith made Sep 22 at 2020 3:18 PM

Brian Smith — Tue, 22 Sep 2020 15:18:51 -0400

Draft dodging is a federal felony with no statute of limitations. Draft avoidance, if it was done lawfully, is not. To Vietnam era people, as the undeclared war went on, it became clear we were not in it to win it. Killing a Commie for mommy without the will to defeat the enemy was not going to get the same patriotic reaction as we saw in WWII or even Korea. So no, I don’t look down on those who used lawful deferments.

Response by LCpl Kris Clark made Sep 23 at 2020 8:54 AM

LCpl Kris Clark — Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:54:35 -0400

they made a commitment to themselves, should not be allowed to hold any public office whatsoever.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Sep 28 at 2020 12:08 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 00:08:23 -0400

Water under the bridge. The draft was 40+ years ago. And "YES" I was drafted after I joined. If we still had a draft and another Viet Nam, I'd be visiting my children in Canada.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Sep 28 at 2020 8:01 PM

TSgt David Olson — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 20:01:52 -0400

After serving 13 months at Pan Mun Jom Korea, I lucked out and got my "dream sheet" request, Vietnam. Dream sheets were filled out when you were getting "short" and soon to PCS. You could pick three of the listed locations, all were geographical, not specific units. I served with many "US's", draftees during my time. I saw several in both Korea and Vietnam who were so traumatized they literally cried. As to all who dodged the draft, one way or another, time has mellowed me. I really don't care anymore one way or the other. The draft ended in 1976, a long time ago.

Response by LCpl Bigdoc Dockery made Oct 13 at 2020 12:48 PM

LCpl Bigdoc Dockery — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 12:48:19 -0400

Yes for sure.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2020 1:07 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 13:07:09 -0400

Very thoughtful post.

Response by SSG Rochard Gonzales made Oct 23 at 2020 10:13 PM

SSG Rochard Gonzales — Fri, 23 Oct 2020 22:13:53 -0400

My thoughts are simple and quick, the man (Trump) is a pathological liar & he lied to avoid serving, not so much in Vietnam, but to serve at all. I served as a LRP with Co. E, 52nd INF and spent 25 months post Nam in an Army hospital. Am I bitter, in all honesty, yes, but not for the reasons you may think. While I have had 52 years to think about the rationale of us being in Vietnam, my thoughts today are vastly different than when I was a 22 yr old E-5 in the A Shau Valley. Yet my thoughts on Draft Dodgers remain the same, particularly those that malign veterans as this man has done on more than one occasion. He is anything but a Patriot. I would say he should be ashamed of himself, but this malignant narcissist has no shame. So rather than opine as eloquently as you have, I will merely repeat my sentiments, Draft Dodgers are NOT Patriots.

Response by LtCol Dennis Ivan made Oct 25 at 2020 2:06 PM

LtCol Dennis Ivan — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 14:06:16 -0400

Depends on the war. Vietnam wasnt a war for national survival like WW2 or the Civil War.

Conscription should only be used in such large wars.
I couldnt care less if someone got a deferment.
I do despise those whose political goals change their opinion of it.
Those same people talking about Trump now would have been all about how evil Vietnam was and right Clinton was to do the same thing. And those defending it for Trump would have criticized Clinton.

The fact is a small fraction of people ever see a shot fired in anger and we were never starving for people to fight Vietnam.
So what difference does it make now.

Response by SPC Albert Blosser made Nov 5 at 2020 12:18 AM

SPC Albert Blosser — Thu, 05 Nov 2020 00:18:09 -0500

Son, if you had been an 11 bravo in Vietnam you might have had a different opinion about phony bone spurs or Rhodes Scholar type of deferments. College deferments were legit, we had no problem with that. I served with a lot of guys that had college and were grunts. (I had some college also). It don't mean nothin, saddle up.

Response by PO1 Paul Jungnitsch made Nov 8 at 2020 2:37 AM

PO1 Paul Jungnitsch — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 02:37:17 -0500

Draft dodgers were criminals, but were pardoned after the war. Those who scammed deferments gamed the system. Treat all of them with the same contempt you would for someone who was convicted of a crime but pardoned. I had to work with people who joined the navy to keep from being drafted in the army. There were some contemptible low-lifes in that category too. Judges were giving criminals a sentence choice of jail time or military service. I had to work with criminals serving time in the navy. That made me feel like I was serving time also, instead of serving my country. My contempt is not just for the draft dodgers. Draft dodging was only one way for people to behave badly. My contempt is for the combat shirkers and jail dodgers who's ethics were the same, and who's presence in the navy made my life miserable.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2020 7:07 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 19:07:46 -0500

That’s all fine and dandy with no moral equivocation about somebody going in your place? My draft board was the infamous Catonsville, MD #33 , where the Berrigan brothers broke in and poured blood on the draft records. Unfortunately, they were 6 months too late for me. Am I the only one that finds it ironic that Bush II used the Air National Guard as a legal way to avoid the Nam and then 30+ years later sends Guardsmen and Reservists on multiple deployments in Iraq? Not what they had in mind, I’m sure. My artillery sergeant (golf Buddy) had an excellent idea. No issue going to Canada, but they cannot obtain civilian employment with the federal government upon return. Lastly, my estimate is that 95+% of elected politicians and 99% of pro athletes have not served in the past 50 years. We all have to live with ourselves after the fact, so to each their own. 1% serve today. The new normal.

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Nov 9 at 2020 12:36 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 12:36:41 -0500

I don't consider college deferments as avoiding the draft. I don't consider utilizing tax breaks as avoiding taxes. I don't consider joining the Guard or Reserve as avoiding the draft. All were legal. But for those who ran away I have complete disdain.
Showing all the wisdom of an 18 year old in 1966, I enlisted in the Marine Corps. Duh!!

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Nov 10 at 2020 2:50 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 14:50:01 -0500

Nay!! They were, in some cases, doing what they believed was right at the time. Some were "misguided youth", others "chicken", and still others had "money". That was fifty years ago; so let us get on with our lives and forget about what happen in our youth.

Response by SPC Robert Dott made Nov 12 at 2020 6:32 PM

SPC Robert Dott — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:32:52 -0500

I agree with the guy who wrote this article. You either went to war or went to jail. Was it honorable to be thinking we were defending our constitution? Yes! in reality we were slaughtering people who were centuries behind us in technology, food, natural resources,Etc etc. No I hold no animosity towards draft dodgers." I came home alive and acting like a freakin asshole for the first 15 years post military. I didn't show the respect for the men and women who died thousands of miles a way in a country that was something like 15th century serfdom europe.
Bob Dott
3rd herd

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2020 7:18 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 19:18:53 -0500

I was alive but not old enough to understand what was going on During Vietnam. I grew up in a blue collar refinery town that flew flags, applauded when troops departed and came home, and supported those families that lost sons and daughters in war. Many voted for President Nixon because of his promise to bring the troops home. My brother was turning 18 and my parents like many others were scared he was going to be drafted. The war ended before that could happen.

Some Vietnam era veterans now are resentful of present service men and women because nobody was saying thank you to them then like they are now. Some veterans do not care. The majority of people who served in the armed forces during that time who are still alive are now collecting social security. It is now time to move on and let them heal.

Calling people names and reopening old wounds for a war that most of us really only know through history text is pointless. We didn't live that life. We can show sympathy but we cannot show empathy. That goes for those who served and those who didn't serve. More than ever in these times we need to demonstrate the positive person we are and lead by example. Hate is a wasted emotion. We hate people because they do not care and guess what? They do not care.

Whether you Aim High, you are Forged by the Sea, you are one of the Few and Proud, or you are Army Strong, set the example and drive on. Onward and Upward!

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Mullett made Nov 12 at 2020 7:33 PM

1SG Jeffrey Mullett — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 19:33:43 -0500

I joined the Army in 1988, I was in 14 years when Operation Enduring Freedom began and 15 years when Operation Iraqi Freedom started. I could have left the military when the wars started, but I stayed in, and served two tours in Iraq.
However, in 1991, I was a Junior in College when I was called about deploying in support of Desert Storm, as it happens, by the time I would have been processed to go, the operation had concluded. I was not ordered to go, if I was I would have gone, though it would have caused me some financial issues, in regard to completing the Semester I was in.
In reading some of the comments here, I reflect on a number of things, first being the format of the original question is both political and not a topic that should be framed around the sitting president. I have strong opinions about the man I will not go into here.
As far as "Draft Dodgers" are concerned, the circumstances around the nature of Vietnam were such that it was not a place many wished to visit. Some rules were enacted in order to limit the stress on our country, and the blowback we were seeing in regard to the conflict. Those rules had guidelines, and very specific reasons for being enacted. But, if your number was called, you were required to report...any of us who registered for Selective Service would have been.
For those who honestly used those exemptions, or deferments, I bear no ill will. But, there were a number of people who abused those deferments. It would have been more honorable if they had just run. Cheating is not winning, no matter how you spin it. Draft Dodging is Draft Dodging whether you moved to Canada, or filed bogus paperwork.
Just my opinion.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Nov 13 at 2020 10:19 AM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 10:19:44 -0500

"It ain't me, It ain't me , I ain't no fortunate son" , Years ago even fortunate sons wanted to serve as it would help their standing later. Look at all presidents before Clinton. All veterans except for a very few. But we have not had a veteran prez since Bush 1 . I discount his son's service(GWB) becuase it seems highly questionable, more like amove just so his son could claim service in the Texas Air Guard. I met a "fortunate son"(a US senator's son) like Bush II, and the dude I knew was young total spoiled ass. A frat boy, no business in the military as a ROTC LT, but he did not do me or anybody in our unit during Desert Shield/Storm any wrong , so I won't mention his name.

It is highly disappointing to see our newer/more recent presidents/leaders don't have any military service> "Fortunate son's" , for real now.

As to Vietnam draft dodger's , they did not pay the price like my father did, WIA as a Huey pilot in Vietnam , or my god-father did as a helo pilot , KIA , in Vietnam for being male citizens of this country.

As to Cowards, is what I call those guys who doged the draft . It may have been an unjust war, (most are), but they should have served. I did, and so did my father, grand-fathers , and all the males of my family going back a long ways . SCV , I am proud to say :)

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Nov 13 at 2020 12:36 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:36:53 -0500

What Maj. John Bell said.

Response by CPT Alexander Grant made Nov 13 at 2020 1:57 PM

CPT Alexander Grant — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 13:57:49 -0500

We should be upset at whoever eliminated the draft. It's the reason people virtue-signal instead of actually caring about what happens to troops.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Nov 13 at 2020 2:39 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 14:39:21 -0500

The only real issue I have with a draft dodger (I know a few personally) is when they try to tell me that my sacrifice meant nothing. It meant something to ME! I don't expect someone who has never truly sacrificed (in any type of way) to understand, though.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Nov 13 at 2020 6:34 PM

PO2 Lawrence Janiec — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 18:34:41 -0500

First of all, the issue with Trump dodging the draft isn't that he did it legally, but his family probably paid the doctors to say his knees were unacceptable. Now flash forward to the future when he's POTUS and there is a school shooting and he said he would "be the first to run in there" and then someone instantly commented about how could he RUN in there if his knees were bad? Hell, if he has trouble standing and/or walking for long periods of time (enough that he wouldn't be able to perform as a Soldier) how is it that he is able to play golf as much as he does? The latest statistic shows 300 times on a golf course in the term of his presidency. That's an average of about once every 5 days (give or take). Would someone who has bad knees really be able to spend that much time walking around?

And really, the bottom line is that if someone got a medical waiver, they were unfit for military service. Again, let that sink in. Declared as unfit for military service. Do you really want that person to lead the military if they were declared unfit for military service? Honestly, I thought it was bad enough that we have too many presidents (on both sides) that never served, draft or no draft. But if for ANY reason someone was declared unfit for military service, they have no business leading it.

I agree with you about how the draft was taking away our rights. However, that was the law of the land back then. Good or bad, that is what our countries leaders decided. As a member of the military, I was taught that "You don't have to like it, you just have to do it." Military service that people sign up for is still servitude by the definition you shared. You sign away your rights and you get paid to do so. I was given orders countless times to do things I either did not agree with or I considered just outright wrong. But if someone chooses to essentially declare that they are above the law and shouldn't need to follow it, do you really want someone with that attitude either making or enforcing laws?

Response by SPC Michael Terrell made Nov 13 at 2020 9:57 PM

SPC Michael Terrell — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 21:57:29 -0500

I was told I wasn't healthy enough to serve, then I was drafted. Of the real draft dodgers that I met after the draft was ended, there wasn't a one of them I would have wanted to serve with.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Nov 14 at 2020 3:04 PM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Sat, 14 Nov 2020 15:04:18 -0500

an upvote

Response by SFC Carlos Gamino made Nov 15 at 2020 4:39 AM

SFC Carlos Gamino — Sun, 15 Nov 2020 04:39:12 -0500

How does it benefit you by being upset?

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Nov 15 at 2020 8:50 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 15 Nov 2020 20:50:47 -0500

For me it really depends on how they dodged the draft and there attitude towards the war and soldiers.

Bill Clinton was trying to get an NG commission in hopes of not being deployed, once he received his "high draft number" it became moot.

I am okay with that, because even in the guard he still served, and Bush went into the reserves to do just the same, and then deployed anyway.

I am not okay with the guys who went to Canada.
And the only bitch I have against Carter was him pardoning all of them who did it.

I would not be angered at Donald Trumps "bone spurs" if he had just kept his mouth shit, but with his attacks on Captain John McCain, veterans, and service he is worse than those who went to Canada in my opinion. He is even worse than Hanoi Jane Fonda.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2020 1:14 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:14:54 -0500

When U.S. forces are outfitted by the best-of-the-best (fittest, smartest, most persevering and honorable), we're all just that much safer. To try to force someone to serve when they're clearly going to self-select "out" even if forced to be "all in" is to put someone in your foxhole who won't have your back.

Response by SPC Rostyslaw Caryk made Nov 20 at 2020 9:23 AM

SPC Rostyslaw Caryk — Fri, 20 Nov 2020 09:23:16 -0500

The draft is a way to force society to be part of the price the nation pays when they go to war. With a volunteer army, there is no price that the overall society pays, except in dollars. Society says "thank you for your service", but then goes on its merry way, saying "well, it was your choice". If you are exposed to having your sons or daughters exposed to paying the ultimate price, you will pay attention to what the politicians are doing, and why. This is why we have been in continuous wars for over 20 years. As much as we hated the vietnam protesters, that is one of the major reasons it was finally ended. Many papers since then, reviewing released secret documents, clearly showed it was only continued as no president want to be the one who "lost the war", when it was lost many years before. Required national service, either in the military or in some other public service format, should be something we should consider.

Response by PO1 Frank Downs made Dec 21 at 2020 9:42 PM

PO1 Frank Downs — Mon, 21 Dec 2020 21:42:29 -0500

I joined the Navy in 1976, while I am a Vietnam era veteran (noticed I didn’t say vet) I am a volunteer who would have went in regardless of a draft.
I understand that people dislike President Trump and use his deferment as excuse to attack him but is it as bad as stolen valor? ( like some members of Congress) or the over rated honors of some Officers that write themselves up for medals.
When I was young I supported our involvement in Vietnam until I looked more closer, how many wars have we been in that actually had anything to do with the defense of the United States?
I will give Trump credit at trying to remove us from decades of wars.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Dec 26 at 2020 9:33 AM

CDR Tom Davy — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 09:33:35 -0500

I went to Afghanistan at 45, with a bone spur on my foot.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Dec 26 at 2020 9:44 AM

CDR Tom Davy — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 09:44:17 -0500

As far as dodging the draft and going to Canada. They made their choice and should live with it. There were many legal ways to avoid the draft which many politicians of both parties took advantage of (another time to rant about them). There were options. My uncle did not support the war, but went when drafted. He refused OCS (BA from NWern U). he went into the Nuclear Corps figuring Nam would never go nuclear. He was forced to suffer in Germany (sarcasm). But he did serve. I was a young boy when he was promoted to acting Corporal in to just out of Basic. I was a Cub Scout and wore a set of E-4 stripes that he sent me on my uniform and Army jacket.
Which reminds me of a story (Sorry). In 1972 when the Paris Peace Accord was signed, my Scout Master, a (former) Marine with a high and tight at 50, said to us that we can take our jackets off as the war was over. We didn't understand. He assumed that we wore the army jackets to protest the military. When we told him we wore them to support the Army, he shed a tear.
Sorry for the long post, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, and may 2021 be a better year.

Response by CPO Michael Hatten made Dec 30 at 2020 11:31 PM

CPO Michael Hatten — Wed, 30 Dec 2020 23:31:15 -0500

My memories of the draft are pretty bad. There was a war that I did not agree with but I could be forced to go over an fight in it. If your number was up, I only had three choices, leave the country, go to jail, sign up for a service where you wouldn't have to participate in something I looked at as illegal and immoral. I chose the third option. I don't condemn the people who chose one of the other two because they paid a price, too.

What I resented were the guys who used their money to buy into a dodge. If you had enough money there was always a deferment or an exemption that you could magically qualify you. Most of those guys looked at guys like us as suckers. And it appears they still do.

Response by SSgt Michael Bowen made Jan 9 at 2021 7:54 PM

SSgt Michael Bowen — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 19:54:54 -0500

I guess they don't know Biden got multiple medical deferments while also playing football .

Response by PO3 Steven Taylor made Jan 21 at 2021 7:05 PM

PO3 Steven Taylor — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 19:05:45 -0500

I volunteered for the Navy when I was I7 because I wanted the adventure and I wanted to learn a trade. I wasn't too interested in the Army or Marines but if I was drafted I would have went. I don't have any respect for draft dodgers but that's just my opinion.

Response by CMSgt Marshall Ray made Feb 9 at 2021 12:14 PM

CMSgt Marshall Ray — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 12:14:20 -0500

I won't comment on others' opinions, reasons, or actions. I can only be true to myself and my beliefs. I served my country honorably and enjoy our freedoms. I am proud to be an American. The actions and motivations of others in this regard are of no concern to me. God bless America home of the free.

Response by TSgt David Whitmore made Feb 10 at 2021 2:28 PM

TSgt David Whitmore — Wed, 10 Feb 2021 14:28:28 -0500

I agree with your premise.
The Draft is indeed 'forced conscription', but I argue that so is the requirement placed on children that they must become educated enough to pass a series of testings, in order to become classed as 'productive and valued members of our society'.
Those children that fight this process are labelled as troublesome or worse by most of the adults in our world and, depending on their behaviour, tend to be forcibly placed in isolation from the general public, for the safety of the general public. Those children that are unable, mentally or physically, to successfully complete this forced education process are generally looked down upon and are, as opposed to the other category of children, more often or not, isolated or protected from the general public. Truth? Or just my opinion, based on my personal life's experiences?
I disagree with only one aspect of the current standards for what we call being drafted: it is not equal or equitable, it is discriminating in that females are exempt. I believe that, at the end of a child's 12-year education (notice I didn't say graduation from), they be drafted for a minimal period of not less than two years of some sort of government service; with the choice of how they serve up to the individual. It is fair that way. After some physical evaluation and training, the INDIVIDUAL can elect to be in the military (that 3.5-4% that would have joined anyway) or accept some kind of 'Peace Corp'-type service in their own local community or areas within our own nation or in other countries where people need a hand in getting back on their feet after disasters.
Back in my teen years, community volunteerism was the rule rather than the exception; so this type of 'draft' was not as necessary as it might be today (50 years later). In my step-father's day, the military was frequently 'offered' to those who were facing a Judge due to continuous minor legal issues; he chose the Navy.
At 19, my Draft number was 346 (I wasn't going to be drafted that year), so three months later I graduated from college and went to all the recruiter's offices to enlist, as I checked out the various career options available to me. I was told by all that they had a backlog a year-long of applicants and I should check back in 6-9 months.

Yes, I know I rambled a bit, but I hope my thoughts were clear enough to be understandable. Sometimes that doesn't happen.
Have yourself a great day.

Response by SFC Steven Barry made Feb 16 at 2021 11:43 PM

SFC Steven Barry — Tue, 16 Feb 2021 23:43:34 -0500

They should be held in utter contempt.

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Feb 20 at 2021 6:20 AM

SGT Lorenzo Nieto — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:20:34 -0500

I’m a Vietnam veteran I served so those butt heads had the freedom to run and hide under their mothers skirt, I had a friend that came from Lebanon he told me when your time was up and you had go to the military they came to your home and took you by gun point if you refused you’re family would pay the price I tend to believe this guy he kind of crazy in his own way,

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Feb 21 at 2021 11:52 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 23:52:27 -0500

Nope! I just hope they realize they made a Big Mistake at some point in their Life!

Response by TSgt Don Dollinger made Feb 28 at 2021 4:07 PM

TSgt Don Dollinger — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 16:07:39 -0500

Don't that can of worms using that definition or the Democrats will be demanding reparations for them too

Response by PO2 Robert Cuminale made Feb 28 at 2021 8:30 PM

PO2 Robert Cuminale — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:30:45 -0500

My only response is to the premise that people who were deferred were only getting what the law said they could be deferred for. Those people who used trickery to get a deferment weren't using the standards the law set for that deferment.
The deferments were unfair because those men whose parents could afford the tuition for them to go to college with C- grades in fields that were automatic deferments like the ministry or teaching. I've known a few guys selling life insurance over the years who used those excuses. Meanwhile the poor or educationally challenged took their place at the front. Remember McNamara's Morons?
Maybe if we'd allowed men to pay substitutes like they did for the Civil War those parents could have helped a poor guy lift himself up with a trade school or the education capable could have gone to college.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Mar 1 at 2021 2:46 PM

TSgt David Olson — Mon, 01 Mar 2021 14:46:25 -0500

As an RA and volunteer for Vietnam I think the time has come to end this “draft dodger” label. Years ago I felt very strongly in my disgust with those who chose not to go. In 2021 I can’t and won’t expend the effort. They know who they are and what they failed to do. I’m sure that the majority view those who went as “chumps”, while they smirked as they accumulated their deferments. People don’t really care anymore, the world has moved on. Yeah, I’m also 100% disabled.

Response by SGT Tomas "Huey" Husted made Mar 4 at 2021 5:48 PM

SGT Tomas "Huey" Husted — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 17:48:30 -0500

Don't forget to add Biden to the list not just Trump. Biden had one asthma attack when he was 10 years old. That was used as a means to keep him out of the service. He received 5 draft deferments. Now I ask you, how can someone who supposedly had asthma be a lifeguard and a football player? NOT.....

Response by SPC Michael Oles SR made Mar 4 at 2021 7:52 PM

SPC Michael Oles SR — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 19:52:37 -0500

I don’t know what a draft card looks like I was enlisted in the Army before I had time to sign up for the draft.

Response by Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr made Mar 4 at 2021 8:21 PM

Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 20:21:28 -0500

I think they are CORWARDS...I did two tours in Nam...and damn proud of it.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Mar 4 at 2021 10:45 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 22:45:54 -0500

Screw those traitors. At least Muhammad Ali had the backbone to stand and take the consequences for not serving. For no other reason than pardoning, I will forever have disdain and speak with derision regarding President Peanut Farmer.

Response by CW3 Dick McManus made Mar 4 at 2021 11:15 PM

CW3 Dick McManus — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 23:15:14 -0500

We no longer have the draft because since 1970 solders were killing their leaders. We lost one third of our causalities in South Vietnam from landmines and booby traps. No army could win a war with those statistics.

Did you vote for AWOL Bush?
Prosecute Bush for war crimes
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ [login to see] 85520/

President Bush and seven of his administration's top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq
...[as] part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses.
http://www.truth-out.org/rumsfeld-era-propaganda-program-whitewashed-

Lying the US into Iraq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4RZO8y-R9k&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3qwOWddjedvIKm3akPygWtF3Q4IjSf-Uy4DWjgKj5QV74yUai_3nzKUYc

Prosecute Kissinger for war crimes
For secretly bombing Laos and Cambodia, his supporting Latin American's operation Condor, and supplied West Pakistan arms while it was doing a genocide in Bangladesh. Both the CIA and the State Department conservatively estimated that about two hundred thousand people perished, while ten million desperate Bengali refugees fled into India. Kissinger joked about the massacre of Bengali Hindus, and privately scorned those Americans who “bleed” for “the dying Bengalis.” https://www.facebook.com/groups/ [login to see] 4524/

Prosecute Bush for war crimes

General Antonio Taguba, who investigated the torture regime and said that "there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes" and "the only question that...

Response by SGT Mark Anderson made Mar 4 at 2021 11:29 PM

SGT Mark Anderson — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 23:29:45 -0500

In most cases, "yes". President Clinton did no better.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Mar 5 at 2021 9:33 AM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 09:33:57 -0500

All I can say is if your not willing to defend your country against all enemies foreign and domestic then why are you living in the United States. Their might come another time when we need the draft to survive as a country. The the question will be should we draft females? If we had a high casualty rate like we did in Vietnam and still had the draft The war we have been in for over 16 yrs would have been over a long time ago. Semper Fi.

Response by Capt Loren Morgan made Mar 5 at 2021 1:43 PM

Capt Loren Morgan — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 13:43:45 -0500

I agree with your arguments regarding the draft and deferments. I used my college deferment for 4 years and after graduation joined up as an officer. Served for 20 years. I believe that what many are not happy about regarding Trump is that he found a dishonest doctor to say he had bone spurs and therefore could not serve. To much like the Civil war when rich people paid others to serve in their place.

Response by CPT William Jones made Mar 5 at 2021 2:40 PM

CPT William Jones — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 14:40:02 -0500

oddle enough reading you views andnotice you mentioned the civil war the first time i guess that drafted people and it was the yankies doing it.and you could buy tour way out.

Response by CPL John Sutor made Mar 5 at 2021 5:49 PM

CPL John Sutor — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 17:49:26 -0500

Can't agree , how can you call him Commander in Chief if he used some fake ass heel spurs plus 3 deferments. I'll be 75 tomorrow , joined at 18 ; trump same age led some bullshit life , scamming and scamming . 58,000 + names didn't die in vane, if your country calls you go , or else we just give up too the very thing that our Forefathers , Fathers , Brothers, Sisters , Mothers ,fought an died for . My dad stormed
Omaha Beach, captured spent the next 345 days in Stalga 4 b Mulberg Germany. 54 men im my Company were KIA in Vietnam. Aco/2nd/502.101st Abn 1966. We went trump ran.
58,000 were not loser's as trump implied, POWs were not loser's as he spoke of John McCain.
While we were defending he was grabbing pussie.
So , the Veterans that are willing to follow trump I personally can't understand their thought process , but wouldn't deny that they served ,not servitude, nor slavery , but love of country.
Mutual Respect

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 6 at 2021 2:43 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 06 Mar 2021 14:43:35 -0500

Society was different then. Military Service was a passage to manhood. You had a military obligation that you had to deal with. I was a 17 year old High Schooldrop out. Many jobs would not hit me because I was a non grad but mostly it was that,obligation floating about. Many men contacted the Draft Board and “pushed up” their draft so they would be at the head of the list. They could serve their two years at the mercy of the Army and then get gainful employment. I was 17 and needed to move i needed to be 18 to “push up my draft”. Very few people in my sociology economic class went to colllege it was rare that anyone got out of serving that way. You had to know someone to get into a reserve or National Guard Unit. There were waiting lists to get in. The Air Force, Navy and Marines were a four year active duty obligation. I needed my parents permission to get into the Army at 17.

And so it was my mother told me to “ get a job or go in the Army”, not realizing tha the Army was where I wanted to be. I turned 17 in October and shipped in November.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Mar 6 at 2021 8:16 PM

SFC Randy Hellenbrand — Sat, 06 Mar 2021 20:16:00 -0500

To a point, YES. Those who just couldn't kill, I have no problem with. Those who knew what was going on and went to Canada, I understand. Those who plain out lied and got fake doctor reports--HANG.

Response by MGySgt Charles Restifo made Mar 16 at 2021 12:51 AM

MGySgt Charles Restifo — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 00:51:47 -0400

SHORT ANSWER..... No! Being true to one's self holds far more esteem then any dodger can explain

Response by LtCol Bruce Janis made Mar 20 at 2021 7:07 PM

LtCol Bruce Janis — Sat, 20 Mar 2021 19:07:14 -0400

But how do you feel about those who went AWOL before going overseas? Is it OK to run away when your number is called, or is there a difference? All were eventually pardoned, unfortunately.

Most here are way too young to comprehend the draft, but while millions stepped up, the rest fled to Canada and continued to bumrap the U.S., or stayed behind to ‘greet’ returning servicemen. I still have no use for the ‘peace’ symbol, saw it carried by too many assh...es.

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Mar 24 at 2021 3:30 PM

SP5 Derick Johnsohne — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 15:30:21 -0400

i'm not . to each one's own moral decision, since for some the war was political .

Response by SGT William Jackson made Mar 26 at 2021 4:26 PM

SGT William Jackson — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:26:00 -0400

Being a "draftee" I never thought about it much, the draft has been in America for hundreds of years. I personally did not volunteer at the time because I had just got married, no not to avoid the draft that had already ended, I knew I was to be drafted, just delayed it as long as I could to get things situated. I have no problem with the draft, many say the the Vietnam Vet was one of America's best soldiers. Most that served were not draftees, most were volunteers, I volunteered for ABN and Infantry, was young and wanted to serve my country, as for others, had lots of friends join the reserves and guard, I have no problem with that. I do though have a dislike for those who ran, someone had to take their place. You have every right to disagree with your countries policy but not to run from you duty, that is not what made America great, not what made it the home of the brave, you have an obligation to serve if asked by your country, if not in the military in many other ways. Some of my friends joined the Peace Corps others volunteered at military hospitals, and helped families with their needs and sometimes with their grief. So I guess my answer is YES if the draft is needed and used in a fair manner, not like Vietnam, then it is ones duty to go.
Good points though SSGT, and a long Salute to you for your service!

Response by LCpl Laurence Puco made Mar 28 at 2021 7:26 AM

LCpl Laurence Puco — Sun, 28 Mar 2021 07:26:23 -0400

This has got to be the best explanation of this subject matter, that I have ever heard or read about, anywhere. Hoorah!

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Apr 10 at 2021 10:55 PM

PVT Mark Whitcomb — Sat, 10 Apr 2021 22:55:32 -0400

The bottom line is that most of you today never had to deal with the draft. To be forced into any type of forced service is wrong. It is slavery in its basic form. We that volunteered chose to defend our great nation. Those who were against it have to deal with their own beliefs and wonder why we who serve put ourselves in harm's way for them who won't. In the end, if we are subdued by those who try to defeat our way of freedom they will know why we choose to defend this nation.

Response by SPC James Drury made Apr 18 at 2021 3:08 PM

SPC James Drury — Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:41 -0400

The writer has done a remarkable job in posing the question and has made compelling and thoughtful arguments supporting his positions. I would like to commend him for the thoughtful, concise, articulate and compelling presentation he has put forth.

Back in the 60's when there was a Draft you really only had a few choices: wait until you're called, enlist, opt out legally or apply for a deferment. The opt out or deferments were for justifiable and rational purposes. There was, of course some dishonorable folks that manipulated the opt outs and deferments but that shouldn't discredit those who did so for honest and true purposes.

So, not necessarily to agree or disagree with the writer's post I'd like to pass on a few observations around my own enlistment as they related to draftees.

First, I always felt Draftees, more so than Enlisted tended to more vocally complain about military rules, restrictions, discipline combat ethics and involvements in wars. They often combined their criticisms with witty humor, sarcasm and thought provoking comments.

A Draftee's harping and questioning was a big factor in keeping those in charge of the troops in check. A healthy dose of criticisms can often lead to real and positive behavioral change and is often a good thing, maybe something that is lacking in todays military.

Second, Draftees tended to be a bit more educated, and with more diverse backgrounds and the exposure to their complete and thoughtful arguments and discussions could often be persuasive and eye-opening to those less accustomed to educational and cultural diversities.

Third, after being discharged from the military a soldier's sense of pride and commitment to and for their service to their country becomes universal, whether enlisted or drafted.

In conclusion eliminating the draft has left too many of our citizens without any strong beliefs devotion, commitment and solidarity to one of our countries most important institutions we have in America... our military forces.

Response by SSG Richard Brue made Apr 28 at 2021 2:59 AM

SSG Richard Brue — Wed, 28 Apr 2021 02:59:05 -0400

Why would you ask that question? How long ago was that. They did what they did and they have had to live with that. We all did what we felt was right for us and we honorably volunteered and did our time. To me, it's not our place to judge.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2021 10:10 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 May 2021 10:10:09 -0400

In my opinion if you are too young or were not involved in the draft (I was) you just don’t understand the dynamics of it all. Today, only men upon their 18th Birthday are required to register. In the Late 60s, 70s, if you were pulled over by law enforcement, it was also likely they would demand you to provide a draft card [proof of registration ] proving that you complied with Federal laws; but also proving you had a right to be in the USA! Today, it would be different. Females would be required to register. Like it or not you or your sister upon receiving a “Draft Noice,” must report within 30 days to an induction center usually in a near by city. Image all the families that would scream about that?

Then in my day,, it was never considered to induct or require females to register, even after we had long instilled a Volunteer Army-or Armed Forces. And in those early 70s they had lotteries with your year and the date, so if you were born in a certain year, they drew a date with the notice of my birth year. Then you had a number. That year my number was #105! My mother had saved me with a Hardship Deferment originally because she was dying of cancer. She died shortly after, and months later I received my reporting date. Because my college grades fell below a C average, I was working a full time job!

As with your question, you only heard the half truth, along with Mr. Trump, Biden, Clinton and many other politicians were able to “Play the system by attending school!” Or in some cases get or fine a reason to avoid being drafted. Some flew to Canada, and were later forgiven?? Was that right or wrong? They should’ve been required to serve some sort of community service such as clean diapers of old women or men…but all received a freebie?

And as to the system, with today’s acceptance of women in all combat roles and MOS/Branches, and the equality the military offers every female-,there simply isn’t any reason why only males MUST REGISTER upon their 18th Birthday… -we should require [like other nations] all American citizens female -and alike (pronouns or not) to register for the Draft along with males ! It was a 2nd Class Felony and a misdemeanor as well as burning a draft card. Just my opinion…At least if we went into a WW3 with China or Russia/North Korea we would have a system in place!!!

Response by SGT Greg Gold made May 14 at 2021 4:31 PM

SGT Greg Gold — Fri, 14 May 2021 16:31:21 -0400

If you dodged the draft, you're a douche bag! There, I said it. As other have pointed out there were many many many ways to legally avoid being drafted. I know numer people who used dererments to stay out of the military, but they played by the rules.

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made May 20 at 2021 12:24 PM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Thu, 20 May 2021 12:24:04 -0400

This is a ridiculous question. The draft was over in 1972 and not been restarted. No one on active duty was drafted. There is no plan to restart the draft. I did not agree with anyone who tried to avoid the draft, but respected those who did and faced the consequences. Mohammad Ali lost everything to stand up for his principles, I respect that. I don't respect anyone who fled to Canada, or anywhere else to avoid the draft. However, these people were pardoned by the president and, after all this time, foes it really matter?

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made May 25 at 2021 12:08 PM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Tue, 25 May 2021 12:08:29 -0400

The Preamble of the US Constitution starts with three words..."We the People"....that means all of us. If "We the People" are going to "ordain and establish this Constitution" then by default we are saying that we are also going to defend the same so that what it stands for can be guaranteed for those who come after us. Those who dodged the draft were willing to give up what our Constitution does guarantee. For many folks, especially with the downgrading of our educational system, serving in the military is the first, and may be only, an education about the Constitution and what it stands for has ever been taught. Many will agree that patriotism is on the wane in our society. I personally feel that doing away with the draft began the slow drift that today, with some exceptions, has put a very lackadaisical attitude across our country when it comes to where we have come from and where we can still go because of this lack of education. With this lack of education and waning patriotism we are rapidly becoming vulnerable to what outsiders want us to be; and what they want us to be is not what we have been.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 26 at 2021 12:39 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Wed, 26 May 2021 12:39:44 -0400

It isn’t the actual draft that is the issue. The rich could go to college, they could get into a reserve unit.etc etc. Normal people wound up moving their draft forward because they couldn’t get a decent job until they had served. None of it effected me, I enlisted stead at 17, without even completing High School. I had no interest in life outside the Army. It was/is class warfare

Response by SSgt Robert Van Buhler III made Jun 2 at 2021 10:15 AM

SSgt Robert Van Buhler III — Wed, 02 Jun 2021 10:15:04 -0400

I respect those who stood their ground for what they believed, like Muhammed Ali. He manned up and paid for his views. I do not respect those who bailed out and fled to Canada or Mexico to avoid the draft. They left the rest of us holding the bag. The young folks who never faced the Draft don't care or think it slavery. Many of them could use the discipline the military provides. The draft had it's place. Every Swiss male serves his two years or so and takes his rifle home with him. The result, a country of armed citizens trained to defend their homeland, successfully since at least 1400 or so? If the draft was not in place in WWII the Axis would have won. An all volunteer Army may or may not generate superior soldiers. One point of view is the citizen soldier is engaged in real sacrifice for his or her country, not just looking for a career. I do not diminish the sacrifice of those who served, often multiple tours in Iraq or Afghanistan. They sacrificed too. But many of us put our education and lives on hold to answer the call of our country, slowing the advance of Communism. Without our service in a bold and overwhelming military, would the Soviet Union have failed, or absorbed more of the world.

Response by PO3 David Keck made Jun 5 at 2021 8:29 PM

PO3 David Keck — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 20:29:01 -0400

In 1972 I was one of those 18 year olds facing the draft. My older brother came home from Vietnam in 68. My birthday was one of the later ones selected so I wasn't drafted. Two years later enlisted in the Navy. I never had to face the choice others did but if I ran off to Canada I don't think I could have lived with myself.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Jun 5 at 2021 11:47 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 23:47:14 -0400

This was a fairly long post. So, I will offer a fairly short answer.

No. We got the better deal.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Jun 5 at 2021 11:54 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 23:54:44 -0400

To be honest, it is my fondest hope that this country NEVER reinstates the draft. Or, if it does, there is a non-combat, or Civilian Employment option.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jun 6 at 2021 10:26 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 10:26:04 -0400

You served or you did not. It should be a requirement of elective office

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Jun 6 at 2021 10:41 AM

SFC Randy Hellenbrand — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 10:41:02 -0400

Trump is SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by PO2 Robert Cuminale made Jun 6 at 2021 4:32 PM

PO2 Robert Cuminale — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 16:32:47 -0400

I joined voluntarily. The reasons are irrelevant. Others in more fortunate or favorable conditions took advantage of laws that allowed them to avoid the draft . You could if Daddy and Mommy had the assets to pay the bills for college. If you maintained that C- average you could avoid the draft.
The unfortunate who were ill or had health conditions didn't have to sweat the draft.
But not all the persons who avoided the draft by going to college went for an education. They went because they could, taking courses that didn't interest them, taking degrees in fields they'd never work in. They met the letter of the law. Fortunately for all of us we cannot discern the moral thinking that motivates us to obey the law. Those who avoided the draft by obeying the law allowing college deferments as their sole motivation are contemptible. They allowed the poor whose parents didn't have a house to mortgage or a well paying job to take their place on the battlefield.They didn't see the immorality of it or did and didn't care. Those are the men to hold in contempt. But only if they confess what they did will we ever know who they were. Some we can make a good guess on when we see how they deal with people now. Maybe they went to work in the savings and industry and caused its downfall in the 1970s. Or with Enron, Solyndra or A123. I wonder how many became lawyers.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jun 7 at 2021 3:18 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 15:18:39 -0400

Go out and get me a million volunteers who qualify

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jun 7 at 2021 6:16 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 18:16:19 -0400

Imagine you are in combat and private Donald Trump arrives. He has bone spurs and a list of problems that will choke a Chaplain. The best you can do is put him out of his misery

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jun 8 at 2021 10:34 AM

1SG Patrick Sims — Tue, 08 Jun 2021 10:34:35 -0400

The draft was a long time ago, as was the Vietnam War. In truth, I wouldn't have wished Vietnam on anyone. Military service isn't for everyone, but some sort of national service should be done. Even planting trees or improving our public parks, whatever it takes to improve the environment should be an alternative option.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Jun 9 at 2021 9:12 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 21:12:39 -0400

I dislike those who brag that that they didn't get drafted. President Biden didn't get drafted because he has asthma. I have a brother-in-law who had asthma and was able to spent thirty years in the US Air Force. I was drafted with a heart murmur. During my draft physical I told the doctor that I had a heart murmur. He listened to my heart and said, "yes, you do. 1A". I served twenty eight years with my murmur and still have it. :-) Those who brag that they weren't drafted aren't the price of a bullet.
BTW, when I was an Infantry training officer, we got a complete Detroit street gang thanks to a judge who gave them the opportunity of going to a jail or the Army. They chose the Army. They should have been broken up to other posts for AIT. My Senior drill sergeant kept them straight until the night before graduation when they robbed the dry cleaning delivery man. I don't know what happened to them in Viet Nam.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 10 at 2021 11:48 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:48:19 -0400

I do not believe that anyone of any party should be allowed to serve in any governmental position that gives them the authority to deploy United States military personnel it they themselves have not served in a capacity where they themselves could have been deployed.
No one should be able to deploy troops if they themselves never placed their own ass on the line.
That means I believe NO ONE should be President of the United States if they are not a Veteran.

Response by MSG Izy Veguillacruz made Jun 17 at 2021 9:39 AM

MSG Izy Veguillacruz — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:39:07 -0400

Coming from a long line of military men from great-grandfather who have served in the 1800's against the Spaniards and the French in Puerto Rico to myself and oldest son who served in Iraq and Afghanistan I, disagree and anyone who found a way from serving at the time, I consider a draft dodger now let's talk about Trump who likes to brag about when he was a cadet and how he like to say and I quote lot's of rank, lot's of rank, yet when he graduated from college he submitted for his fifth deferment to Vietnam.
Larry Braunstein and Manny Weinstein who witness wrote 45's medical waiver as a favor to his Queens, NY podiatrist office landlord Fred Trump. I enlisted in 1984 and our biggest issues were draft dodgers and communists leaders and 45 represent both especially when he married his first Russian Czechia wife in 1977 and yes even back then we considered him a communist pig and we all know it has not changed, especially when our Soldiers were bing hunted encouraged by Putin and 45 stilled calles him a good man to include calling Kim Jong-IL a good man but says John Mc Cain's wasn't a real hero. It seems that every time he visited a country that displayed and parade their fire power he wanted to do the same in this country, we know what we have and don't have to brag about it. What really broke my heart was when he incited the 6 Jan with his seditious comments and lied when he talked about being there with them. I'm also a firm believer that any military member active, Reserve, National Guard, and politician who took and OATH to protect this country foreign or domestic should be demoted and stripped of all benefits, rights and privileged we all provided by the United States of America.
American draft evaders who left for Canada and became prominent there include politician Jim Green, gay rights advocate Michael Hendricks, attorney Jeffry House, author Keith Maillard, playwright John Murrell, television personality Eric Nagler, film critic Jay Scott, and musician Jesse Winchester and all celebrities that stayed in the US including Mohamed Ali.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jun 17 at 2021 6:45 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 18:45:51 -0400

Conscription has been part of the military since before Christ. The problem is when it is an inequitable system. Some countries like Vietnam and Communist China had systems which took pride in equal service by all. That was 50 years ago and those systems may have been corrupted by now. It doesn’t bother me, I don’t want to be dragged down pulling the unwilling along. Not that it was my experience. Draftees were among the best soldiers I had. They were more settled than Regular Army RA. The option to “ push up your draft” moving yourself to the top of the list, Got you two years at the convenience of the Army.
I always felt that conscripts should not be sent to Vietnam. There were openings in CONUS and Europe. Drag some of the Homesteaders out of Germany. Last thing I would need was Pvt Donald Trump wanting to debate me about the legality of orders.

Response by Sgt James Cahill made Jul 3 at 2021 11:46 AM

Sgt James Cahill — Sat, 03 Jul 2021 11:46:33 -0400

1968,Gulf of Tonkin resultion,fires in American cities after MLK assasination, dead high school classmates from Vietnam forced me to join USAF, July 1968 in Chicago.
The MEPS was full of enlistees and draftees,outside the Chicago Dem convention was going on.
1 in 3 draftees were now Marines.
I was forced to go into the military by politicians.
I was not rich enough to go to college but physically fit.
Any person who had money ,could afford a doctor to lie about physical fitness does not get my support as a POTUS.
Plain and simple.
When I got out at Travis in 1972 people were spitting at me .
The truth is how many of DJT classmates served or are honored on the Wall?

Response by CW4 Jay Ossiander made Jul 7 at 2021 12:57 PM

CW4 Jay Ossiander — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:57:47 -0400

People commenting can't even stay on topic and instead turn it into a platform for anyone and everyone who wants to voice their political opinions no matter how spurious. Rally Point has turned into FB and every other social media platform contributing to the disinformation and divisiveness pervasive in this country.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jul 8 at 2021 6:34 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 18:34:57 -0400

Really? What draft? Are you talking about the one which ended in the 1970s? Suck it up and get over it. Jimmy Carter gave amnesty to all the "Draft Dodgers". That ended the issue. Heck, most of the people drafted are between 50-90 and most of them don't care or don't remember the draft.

Response by CPL John Sutor made Jul 13 at 2021 1:05 PM

CPL John Sutor — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 13:05:26 -0400

37 troopers / Brothers KIA from my company A/2nd/502 101st Abn 1966 . RA , US , Gave all , trump gave 0

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2021 5:00 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 17:00:49 -0400

A few things:
1. The draft wasn't well done, I believe that deferments were ok, but they should have been limited. Obviously this is through the lens of modern Ed, but college kids going for STEM type degrees should have a deferment, humanities, or other soft degrees should serve. Medical exemptions should be mandatory but only in the fact that it could actually limit ability, i.e. diabetes type 1 where you need insulin. Bone spurs is a BS deferment. Yes they hurt, but you can drive a truck.

2. If another large scale war were to kick off, there should be a required national service during a time of war/emergency.

3. Regardless of party, folks that did/do dodge/get out of military service should not be given cart blanch to use the military for their platform.

Response by SP6 Alec Andrus made Jul 15 at 2021 5:21 PM

SP6 Alec Andrus — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 17:21:50 -0400

I was drafted and it upset my short term plans. But I value the experience, even the bad ones and love my brothers at arms. But some didn’t make it back to the world alive. Do I resent Trump and others who actively dodged the draft. Hell yes. They should have had the balls to take their lottery ticket and see if they came back alive. Anyone in my unit who didn’t make it back is a better man than those who weaseled their way out of the draft with trumpeted up injuries. I am color blind and I made it through the selection station. When I stand at the wall I am in awe that I am here and that so many good men and women aren’t because they were willing to put their body on the hard bloody line of defending our country. And I also feel comraderie with those who wore the different uniform and did the same for their country. We did it for something you can’t get by dodging the draft. Hell yes I think that draft dodgers are cowards. Trump asked why anyone would serve and give their life and called those who did and who died “losers.” Those words blaspheme to hallowed sacrifice of our fellow soldiers alive and dead.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2021 1:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jul 2021 13:42:40 -0400

The draft for the Vietnam war was bogus. It was a pointless war that ended up being a meat grinding drug bender. Not to mention no real mission and a fugazy objective. My step dad served in Vietnam. He said the real battle was staying away from the mass about of drugs.

So anyone that dodged THAT particular draft... I got no problem with.

Response by CSM Thomas Ray made Jul 19 at 2021 9:29 AM

CSM Thomas Ray — Mon, 19 Jul 2021 09:29:47 -0400

I was going to be drafted, but decided on the Delayed Entry Program, "Airborne Unassigned", that delayed me going in for about 2 months, Draft #5. I don't think the draft is a bad thing, I think everyone should serve their nation, either in the military or as a Peace Corp volunteer or equivalent, as they had back then. Maybe it would get some of the protesters and looters off the street and give them a new prospective on the world. If they want free education tie this on to this service.

Response by SPC David Batterson made Jul 20 at 2021 4:34 PM

SPC David Batterson — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:34:48 -0400

I was drafted during the Vietnam War era, and never considered escaping to Canada. I did not want to go into the Army, but I did so. I consider myself both antiwar, and a patriot. While it was mostly an unpleasant time, I also have good memories of that experience, and overall am glad that I served my time and received an Honorable Discharge. The best time was when I went TDY to Ft. Benjamin Harrison, and attended DINFOS. I was an Honor Graduate there (for two different times/instruction type). It was like attending college, with excellent instructors (both civilian and military). Two thumbs up to DINFOS.

Response by CMSgt Marcus Falleaf made Jul 20 at 2021 7:26 PM

CMSgt Marcus Falleaf — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 19:26:47 -0400

Never try to compare the generations. The times change and so do we. Recognize the differences in family, education, morals and values. Fear comes in so many different forms that it is virtually impossible to determine causation. Generational differences expand the gap even more. Determine you and live with it.

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Jul 27 at 2021 1:52 AM

PO1 David M Burns — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 01:52:58 -0400

you used a whole lot of space to say nothing, so I will put it to you in a nut shell, If you ran to canada to avoid the draft, you are a coward and should be punished if and when you returned, If you were against the draft and stood your ground and went to jail, then you stood up for what you believed in. AND if you were against the draft and went anyway because you were an American than you were an honorable [person. that's the end of that, see---I did not take up any space fcr the kum baiy ya P.C, or other nonsense. This is basically what you wanted to say wasn't it?.

Response by A1C Michael Haggerty made Jul 29 at 2021 10:26 AM

A1C Michael Haggerty — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:26:04 -0400

I think they are cowards so they get the level of respect of a coward.

Response by SGT Kenneth Stelly made Aug 4 at 2021 11:48 AM

SGT Kenneth Stelly — Wed, 04 Aug 2021 11:48:23 -0400

I will answer this question as answered by my father that was a Platoon Sgt in Vietnam and was also a POW that escaped and was blown up and lost a leg and right lung and was ate up by agent orange and you didn't have to ask if he had PTSD, He lived it everday. All the lives lost, all the lives that were severely wounded. All the wounded souls. For nothing. All the families destroyed. American families and children that never knew their fathers. Nothing positive came out of Vietnam. We left and the Communist still took over. My father would say better go to Canada and be alive than to die for no reason. I seen others almost apologetic tell him that they didn't serve but wish they did go to Vietnam. He would tell them they were crazy to even think that. He would say look at my leg, is this what you want? For nothing. Better yet,, are you wanting to cone back in a body bag, for nothing. My father was highly decorated, airborne, instructor officer training at Ft. Benning. He went to every school there was and was a lifer. He loved the Army but he did not like watching men die for no reason. He did not like watching me bleed out and take their last breath for no reason. Vietnam was a waste of lives. He would not have anything against you for dodging Vietnam. And from me having to grow up with him and to witness the difference in him before and after, I would say run, don't walk to Canada as fast as you can. May he R I.P. because he didn't for the last 45 years of his life. For nothing......... There is a difference between draft dodger and hippies. Like the hippies that spit on my father in San Francisco, called him a baby killer and screamed for him to go back to Vietnam after he was in Japan for almost a year before the doctors felt he could make the flight back to the states. Screw you, you hippie freaks, but please, give the draft dodgers a break. Salute to all Vietnam veterans and their families!

Response by CSM John Mead made Aug 8 at 2021 8:43 PM

CSM John Mead — Sun, 08 Aug 2021 20:43:16 -0400

You make a good argument, but I believe personally that the draft constituted neither servitude or slavery. Yes, while serving, you have very little freedom to dictate the course of your freedom. At least, while serving. How the period of service goes, depends on you. Most will face it with a sense of obligation, do their time and then get out. In my early service, many of my fellow soldiers were draftees and benefitted from early out discharges, ranging from 60 to 90 days. Many of my friends who were draftees in Vietnam, extended their tours, so that upon return to the States, they were discharged rather than be assigned to a Stateside unit. You might ask how long these extensions were, but in reality, not long. After 4 months of Basic and AIT, 12 months in a combat zone, an extension of 90 days would get you out 6-7 months early. Not a bad deal, unless you consider the cons of an extension in a combat zone and your given profession. A gamble for an infantryman. But, if you want to consider the draft as involuntary servitude, or slavery, I'd say your assessment is naive. One, you weren't drafted, you volunteered during a time of only volunteers, therefore not understanding the pressure on young potential draftees. To give free passage to those that dodged the draft is also naive in thought, because it is cowardly and takes advantage of the liberties that are inherent to our great land. I've known many that either went to Canada or deserted after being drafted. I have little regard for these cowards, and furthermore detest the actions of both Presidents Ford and Carter to welcome back into the fold both categories. President Ford had a son who dodged the draft. Various presidents have had many who considered them draft dodgers. Clinton was one in fact. You can research it yourself. He had orders to report for duty, while at the same time attended school in the UK as a Rhodes Scholar. A lawyer petitioned for his deferment, but by the time the case got anywhere, he was scot free. Okay, Trump didn't serve, but neither did Obama or Biden. Bush served in the Air Guard with a lackluster career, but he at least served. But as many others who've answered your request for input, I detest the dodgers and deserters. They've taken advantage of their liberties and rights and feel no sense of obligation, whereas millions of others at least showed up. These are my feelings, but at least I showed up when I could have skipped.

Response by SFC Roger Nelson made Aug 22 at 2021 4:50 PM

SFC Roger Nelson — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 16:50:18 -0400

I volunteered my 22years and I am proud of it.
I think all capable men and women should serve time in the military as others countries do .

Response by PFC Robert Avants made Aug 22 at 2021 7:32 PM

PFC Robert Avants — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 19:32:48 -0400

If you used legal deferments, so be it; if you took your coward ass to Canada, you should've been stripped of your citizenship, and put in prison if caught back in

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Aug 23 at 2021 7:37 PM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:37:08 -0400

As I read your post, I had a lot of thoughts, and a lot of emotions, because your questions have come up in my own mind.
I'd like to break down your question into three different parts. Slavery, Service versus draft dodger, and holding a grudge.
When you talk about slavery and involuntary servitude, you turned it into an either are. It’s got to be one or the other it's got to be you are a free person or you or a slave.
You make no provisions for something we might call haft free and half Slave. You don’t except the idea that you can be free in many areas and in servitude in others.
Taking a simple example, a Child. Children are free lots of time, but they are forced to go to school. When you say to somebody do your homework or else. When you say to somebody clean up your room or else. Even when you say pick up that piece of paper that you just dropped. Are you turning them into a slave? Or is this a different class not free person but something in between?
Am I a slave because I am forced to pay taxes? Am I a slave because I’m forced to wear clothes? If I am a free person, can I just walked into your house or your business anytime I want? The idea of slave and freedom is much more complicated than just yes or no.
The word “chosen” makes a point of this. You are chosen to be president, that’s a big the honor. But when you are chosen for the draft, it has a different meaning. I have done some research on the town where I live. I discovered back in the 1880s, the city levied a tax on each household to maintain the roads. Although it’s true that if you had the money, you could pay the tax in cash it was expected that you would pay in labor. You would come out for one day or 1/2 a day a month or whatever your tax was and work on the city roads. With these people slaves on that day.
We do not call people in prison slaves, we called them prisoners, because we claim they have broken a law and we are punishing them. Today (2021) the United States have decided it should not require military service. We have in the past and we might in the future. But I argue that this is not the same thing as slavery, is it a tax on ourselves. Now an important here is that a tax must be fair and excepted by the Community. If it's unfair then that’s a whole different problem. But I do not call with slavery.
The word “draft dodger” has taken on a lot of political tones. I have read that certain religious groups like the Quakers were call draft dodgers during the Civil War. We the country, now recognized these religious beliefs as conscientious objectors. When Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali said that he would not be drafted they called him a draft dodger and put him in jail they took his livelihood away and the courts we're not very sympathetic. It went all the way to the supreme court who found he had truly / just beliefs and that he was a conscientious objector. Even after that they would not give him back his license to fight and his title and even today there are some people to call him a draft dodger. Many people stayed in school during the 60s to avoid the draft it was legal, but not very fair because it required you to have money. In World War II a little more than 50% of all the male in the draft age group served. My father did not. Two reasons kept him out of the war. He had three children, and his job was “vital to national defense. What was his job that was so vital? He ran a garbage company. Yes, garbage companies were exempt from being drafted because they were vital to the national defense. I’m very proud of him for the many things he did his life, but my point is the word draft Dodger becomes very tricky. There are a lot of people me, included that doubt if Donald Trump's leg / foot was really that bad. If he cheated and lied and got him out of the draft that was wrong. But there are so many other things about Donald Trump that I don’t like this one just doesn't make the list.
Now the last part is about holding a grudge. There are a lot of people that during my life with make me angry (I’m 76 so I’ve had lots of time to get mad at people) some did little things that I for gave the next day and some of them did things that were so terrible I will never forgive. But that’s not the same thing as holding a grudge. It just takes too much energy to hold a grudge. Anybody that was 18 or older in 1970 must be an old person today. And I’m tired of being mad at them. If there are bad people, they have certainly done other bad things and send that I can be annoyed with, and if they behave themselves (by my definition) for the last 50+ years did you give him a break if you get it.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 24 at 2021 5:40 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 17:40:17 -0400

I joined in 1961 a non high school grad because I wanted to be a soldier. I was told to "get a job or go in the Army, so I did. Getting out of North Philadelphia into a structured environment was good for me.
I always believed that draftees should be assigned to CONUS or Europe. Vietnam and Korea should be volunteers only. We had half a million men bumping into each other. I couldn't imagine having Donald Trump as a subordinate.

Response by Cpl Ray Frigerio made Aug 25 at 2021 9:45 AM

Cpl Ray Frigerio — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 09:45:55 -0400

Absolutely right , I could not agree more . I consider it ironic too , that the first time America started to draft men on a large scale to fight was during the Civil war . I would have gladly joined the Union Army then and I would have gladly gone to Vietnam though I would have likely been drafted in any case ( by virtue of my birthday I have an extremely low lottery number lol ) , but taking away one's freedom without due process is akin to feudalism and is Un-American.
People have different reasons for wanting to avoid it , or to fight . I love the Vietnamese people and I detest communism , but others might see the war as an excuse to deny them their destiny and self determination . Had Cuba not fallen to communists , I would have supported a true revolution of the Cuban people for democracy.
That being said , I find no fault with most people that avoided service in those wars .

Response by SPC Albert Blosser made Aug 25 at 2021 10:05 AM

SPC Albert Blosser — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:05:22 -0400

You evidently don't know how the draft and deferments were set up. Trumps legal deferments ended in May 1968 when he graduated from college. His "bone spurs" reclassification didn't appear until 1970, 68 to 70 was illegal draft dodging. Clinton also illegally dodged the draft. No respect for either of them. Since you weren't around back then I understand your confusion about the issue. I kind of get the idea that you didn't serve in a combat zone as an 11 bravo.

Response by SMSgt Michael Gleason made Aug 25 at 2021 5:59 PM

SMSgt Michael Gleason — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 17:59:28 -0400

I guess I’m a “Daft Dodger”, because I enlisted to avoid being drafted. That said, a larger issue is Military Service Obligation (MSO). If a male enlists, becomes an officer, or is drafted, he incurs a SIX YEAR MSO (unless “separated for a reason, including a bad conduct discharge, medical separation, etc.). So for SIX YEARS from his Initial Active Duty Date (IADT), he must maintain a relationship with the Department of Defense, either in an active duty, Guard/Reserve, or inactive/Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) capacity, subject to recall at the pleasure and necessity of his branch of service. WOMEN, on the other hand, HAVE NEVER HAD TO REGISTER WITH SELECTIVE SERVICE, CANNOT BE DRAFTED, AND IF THEY ENLIST OR ARE COMMISSIONED, THEY INCUR NO MSO! They can basically “walk” any time the spirit moves them to leave the service! If they want TRUE “EQUAL RIGHTS”, they should have TRUE EQUAL OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY! They should have to register for Selective Service under the same laws and requirements as men, and incur the SAME MSO!

Response by SFC James Corona made Aug 30 at 2021 11:50 AM

SFC James Corona — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:50:05 -0400

I don't look down at draft dodgers because their conscience follows the decision they made. It really surprised me to know that celebrities like John Wayne, Marlon Brando or Sylvester Stallone Never Served in the military yet are looked upon by mant as patriots.

Response by PFC David Cox made Sep 5 at 2021 11:06 AM

PFC David Cox — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 11:06:48 -0400

I would agree that being drafted was like slavery but disagree that slaves in the nineteenth century escaping to Canada was equivalent to the '60's draft-dodgers going to Canada to avoid the draft. Nineteenth century slaves did not have the "deferments" that could keep them free. They were born into servitude and had no choice other than to escape as best they could. The draft-dodgers of the '60's had many ways to avoid the draft, some honorable, some not. I was drafted in 1963 and did indeed feel that I was a slave while serving at times but am very proud that I did serve, in looking back. I feel nothing but contempt for those who ran to Canada to avoid the draft. Comparing what they did to what actual slaves had to endure is disgusting.

Response by SPC Martin Meyer made Sep 16 at 2021 11:07 PM

SPC Martin Meyer — Thu, 16 Sep 2021 23:07:43 -0400

It appears to me you did not serve during the Vietnam Era and lived through those times. This is a free country because when called upon to serve men stood up in defense of this Country. Home of the Free Because of the Brave. I served from 71-74 was never sent to Vietnam like many I served with. The ones who legally avoided the draft so be it as a friend of mine was able to do so his father was a doctor with the VA. He is still my friend I do no harbor any bad feeling toward him. Those that dodged the draft and fled to Canada so someone else had to go in their place I do not trust and will never trust. This Country did not Mean anything to them Then and Much less Now!

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Sep 18 at 2021 1:58 PM

SPC Lyle Montgomery — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 13:58:18 -0400

I volunteered for the draft in 1969 after graduating high school. The Army was my choice. I did 2 years and was glad to do it. I served with regular army and draftees and the draftees were as good as or better than the RA guys I don't have much use for draft dodgers. They don't deserve respect. I'm glad that we don't have the draft now, but if it is ever resurected, There should be absolutely no deferments whatsoever. I have no problems for those who were never called, but those who went to Canada are cowards and should never be welcomed back in the us under penalty of war.

Response by 1LT Voyle Smith made Sep 18 at 2021 7:34 PM

1LT Voyle Smith — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:34:21 -0400

Not any more. I once cussed ‘em up and down but not now. Leave ‘em alone. They’ve suffered enough, trying to explain to their grandkids how they screwed up so royally. I wouldn’t want to have to do that.

Response by COL Jim Lincoln made Sep 18 at 2021 11:35 PM

COL Jim Lincoln — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 23:35:26 -0400

Few know that 4 Presidents dodged the draft-during Vietnam war. Clinton, Bush,Trump and yes Biden
BTW,I served 32 months in Vietnam--if you want the explanation for each email [login to see]

Response by COL Jim Lincoln made Sep 18 at 2021 11:37 PM

COL Jim Lincoln — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 23:37:58 -0400

few know that 4 Presidents dodged the draft-Vietnam: Clinton,Bush,Trump and yes,Biden
BTW I served 32 months in Vietnam if you want explanation for each email [login to see]

Response by 1SG Leon Espe made Sep 25 at 2021 6:05 PM

1SG Leon Espe — Sat, 25 Sep 2021 18:05:22 -0400

The Draft is the law of the land. If we don't like a law we should work to get it changed or revoked but obey the law until then. If a person disobeys the law he shouid expect legal punishment. If the reasons for avoidance of duty are legal reasons it should not bother others that they were used as long as it is according to the law.
I served in two wars (Korea and Vietnam) with Draftee comrades and we got along fine.

Response by MSG Frederick Otero made Oct 28 at 2021 1:57 PM

MSG Frederick Otero — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 13:57:21 -0400

If you left the country then took the pardon to return well i have only two words for that kind of coward. If you went on to serve your prison time i salute your conviction, if you found another way to serve your country you also get a salute. If you used influence of others to get out of military service/combat duty well you get the same two word i have for those that accepted a pardon.

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made Nov 21 at 2021 1:45 PM

SSG Clayton Lam — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:45:40 -0500

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made Nov 21 at 2021 3:28 PM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 15:28:24 -0500

Bidon beat the draft too.
Very disliked war (Vietnam) lot of people beat the draft one way or another.
That war is a thing of the past tome to move on.

Response by SGT Jack Forkosh made Dec 12 at 2021 11:50 AM

SGT Jack Forkosh — Sun, 12 Dec 2021 11:50:22 -0500

As a Vietnam vet, I can still feel my blood boil regarding those who dodged the draft. They still get the same rights as i, but never had the stones to serve their country,. I harbor no ill will against them today ,but if we were able to see what happened during WWII, we would find some of he same type behavior of tha tera, though not displayed as protesters and street gangs, but of ordinary folks that didn't believe in war or killing. We must look at the individual and see the good in them today. Yesterday was a long time ago. LIVE AND LET LIVE has been my thoughts since coming back from the war and I to this day have no ill feelings for those who decided not to serve.

Response by SPC Steve dePinet made Dec 16 at 2021 5:06 PM

SPC Steve dePinet — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 17:06:17 -0500

I was incensed at former President Clinton getting out of the Draft with his Education Deferments, including running to the UK to do so, and was arguing with my dad (also a US Army Vet) and asked him: "If you had the chance to use you position to get me out of being drafted, would you have done so?". He said YES, absolutely. Now, I volunteered in 1978, well after the Vietnam Era Draft ended, and served thru 1982, when the new draft was initiated, so it really wasn't an issue in my case, but I was flabbergasted at dad, until I became a parent of a son (who is now a US Marine Vet), but I considered it duty to server (or, at least register for the draft, in case my presence was required).

OTOH, I was an Army PFC, sitting at my desk, in Worms Germany, reading the Stars and Stripes, and saw that there was a new draft law, and told my NCOIC, "Hey, Sgt Bryant, it says here that I need to go to the Post Office and register for the draft". He laughed, and I did not go. After I ETS'd, the Selective Service Admin sent a letter to my home of record, which my mom opened and she later told me that it was a threat that if I didn't register for the draft, they were going to send the FBI after my ass. She sent them a copy of my DD214, and they sent back a letter saying "Thank you for doing your duty and registerring for the draft" or some such. I never registered, so I guess that I'm veteran, while being a draft dodger, but I'm a Vet, first.

So, I have very mixed feelings on the subject of draft dodgers, and on those who used the legal system to get deferments. But, I believe that I did my duty, and that's who I need to worry about, not someone else.

Response by SPC Steve dePinet made Dec 16 at 2021 5:14 PM

SPC Steve dePinet — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 17:14:35 -0500

One other question on this topic: Since the new Selective Service Law (which was signed into law sometime in the early 1980's, or maybe 1979), has anyone actually been drafted? I was under the impression that there have been sufficient volunteers to keep up the needed manning levels so that no one has had to be drafted, but that's just my impression.

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Dec 18 at 2021 4:53 PM

SPC Lyle Montgomery — Sat, 18 Dec 2021 16:53:21 -0500

I don't have a problem with those who had legimate deferments or those who just were never called. I do have no respect for the cowards who went to Canada to avoid the draft. They have no honor and should have never been alowed to return to the US and if they did they should be jailed. However that lousy President, Jimmy Carter pardoned them and let them return. He served honorably in the Navy but he shit on all the vets who served. I volunteered for the draft in1969, was an Army grunt in Vietnam. Only did 2 years and got out. We lost a lot of good men in Nam and it is an insult to their memory. Draft dodgers suck.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Dec 18 at 2021 5:42 PM

SFC Randy Hellenbrand — Sat, 18 Dec 2021 17:42:49 -0500

Like Trump did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by 1SG Arthur Kristiansen made Dec 23 at 2021 12:44 AM

1SG Arthur Kristiansen — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 00:44:53 -0500

In America there are many things that fit your definition of servitude. Paying taxes, obeying the law, ummm, marriage (lol). Military servitude (I agree with you) is payment for services rendered to everyone. Why should only some of us pay? If one doesn’t like that, have the decency to leave. But you made a great point. Nicely argued…kris

Response by SSG Gerald Thornhill made Dec 27 at 2021 7:53 AM

SSG Gerald Thornhill — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 07:53:45 -0500

I was stationed at Fort Jackson from December 1965 until April 1968 before being shipped to Okinawa. I was in the optical lab at Fort Jackson. Fort Jackson was a major reception center for inductees from New York City.
There was a ward in the hospital that inductees were sent for evaluations with medical issues. What I saw was it looked like New York City drafted everybody if they could walk. The optical lab used some of these inductees while they were waiting for the results. I saw men who were partially crippled, totally deaf, wearing braces, eyesight so bad they had to be led to where they were being evaluated.

Having seen this and listening to Donald Trump's excuse for avoiding the draft I checked on Bone Spurs as a medical condition for avoiding the draft.

The answer was that Bone Spurs is not now or has it ever been a reason for not being accepted in the Military. The reason is that it is a temporary condition easily treated. It is just calcium deposits. A shot or a pill dissolves them.

Response by SGT James Bradley made Dec 27 at 2021 8:57 PM

SGT James Bradley — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 20:57:10 -0500

No - the dodgers have to live with their decision for the rest of their waking days.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Dec 29 at 2021 4:22 PM

SSG John Jensen — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:22:22 -0500

When I became full time Nat’l Guard, one of the old gUys in the unit told me about he and they joined the Guard to get out of Korea. I have no objection to people who joined the guard to get out of the war. They served in their way. But, along about 10 or 15 years in, they decide that they’re natural born killers, and they never served a day in active Army, as a medic I never claimed to be hard core, but I was in the 82d Abn, and they don’t rise to my level of not being hard core.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Dec 29 at 2021 5:38 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 17:38:29 -0500

Those who dodged the draft were just part of the culture at the time. I don't hold it against them at all. I still don't the lies & BS that certain people tell even to this day on why they avoided the draft. One said he had foot issues. No, his daddy paid off somebody. Another one said he was a conscientious objector but they were still drafted & put into non-combat roles. Another liar. It's the continued lies that should prevent us from electing those officials, not under the fact that they avoided the draft.

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made Dec 31 at 2021 7:46 PM

SGT Jeff Everhart — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:46:55 -0500

There's nothing wrong with using whatever tool was and is available, but to those individuals who did avoid service by outright leaving the country because they didn't want to face the draft board, find another country. To that point, the selective service for young men should be eliminated or women should be added to the service requirement. Equality means equality doesn't it?

Response by GySgt Jack Wallace made Jan 10 at 2022 9:31 AM

GySgt Jack Wallace — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:31:57 -0500

No, but as long as the dodgers got punished of some kind. My brother served in Vietnam as I just missed it. When I came back from Okinawa after 3.4 yrs. my so called friends wanted to know if I had killed any women or babies, and why can't I found some else to do???? Those that asked, of course stayed at home safe with there mothers. For me, I hope all the gutless chicken-sh.. that did not go to Nam when called to do so can look themselves in the mirror w/o vomitting or cutting one's throat. This is not a pissing contest, but a coward is what they are!
For all that served I Salute you, and all those Marines out there I say, Semper Fi. And may God Blessed this country.

Response by SPC James Villanti made Jan 16 at 2022 1:28 PM

SPC James Villanti — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:28:58 -0500

I am a Vietnam Veteran. US Army 1966-1968. A draftee like so many others. No Regrets for my military service. Of my 12 friends, 10 went to Vietnam. Two received college deferments, like so many other college students. I will never call them draft dodgers and they will forever be my friends. Draft dodgers are those who ran to Canada and were brought back to protect Nixon. Others claimed to dodge the draft when in fact they were part of the lottery and didn't have to go. Bruce Springsteen was one of those liars.

Response by SSG Ray Elliott made Jan 23 at 2022 9:09 AM

SSG Ray Elliott — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 09:09:00 -0500

I have no ill will for those who chose not to go to Vietnam and stayed in college to get a deferment, or who defied the draft for conscientious reasons stayed and faced the music. If someone failed the physical for a real medical reason, it is what it is. I don't have a lot of respect for people who got out of the draft by pulling strings, and faking medical issues, etc. I also don't feel that people who left the country by choice should have been pardoned and allowed back they made their choice knowing the consequences. I had a stepfather who during Korea had an Aunt who worked for the draft board. His aunt became aware that his number was going to be coming up, and warned him she she told him she wouldn't do anything to get him out of it, and he certainly had an unfair advantage, but he used his advantage to volunteer for the service of his choice, and enlisted in the Air Force. We all have choices and choices have consequences.

Response by PFC Martin Potashner made Jan 23 at 2022 12:24 PM

PFC Martin Potashner — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 12:24:21 -0500

I am one of those Canadians who joined the U.S army

Response by SSG Jack Scott made Jan 23 at 2022 6:03 PM

SSG Jack Scott — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 18:03:45 -0500

Why people get pissed at Trump when Clinton escaped the Draft in College and vacationed in Communist Russian just like Bernie. Obama well he was Obama no military. I always refer to Clint Eastwood, “A man has to know his limitation”! I can tell you my dad and uncles didn’t want some draft dodging Hippie with them in the Bush!

Response by Jim Miller made Feb 17 at 2022 1:14 AM

Jim Miller — Thu, 17 Feb 2022 01:14:58 -0500

I was a protester in the 70s. Along with my college roommate. We got on TV. Stopped at his parents house after the TV appearance. His dad ripped us a new one. Many years later I learned that his dad was a member of the 442 in WW2. My lottery number was 165 when the lottery went up to 163 that year, My roommate joined the army a couple years later. All three sons are army vets. Go figure.

Response by SGT Daniel Petitt made Feb 19 at 2022 8:04 AM

SGT Daniel Petitt — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:08 -0500

I think so & I am. Especially the ones that ran to Canada & then given full immunity. To me that was like spitting on the graves of those who paid the ultimate. What good is the Selective Service if we are going to reward those who dodged their civic duty as citizens of the US? If we let them come back to the US they should have had a mandatory 5 year prison sentence.

Response by SPC William Jones made Feb 20 at 2022 5:19 PM

SPC William Jones — Sun, 20 Feb 2022 17:19:31 -0500

I agree. It is a personal decision. I enlisted because I felt it was my duty to protect our Country and the people within it. What others did was their decision. I served in Vietnam for 2 tours and came back to my own people calling us murderers and Baby killers. It made me wonder why I even wanted to protect them from outside forces. Then I remembered it wasn't why I joined to begin with. It was so No war ever came here. I seen what happened to other Countries and there people when war was there. Women and girls became prostitutes and were killed for fun. I fought for freedom here in the greatest Country in the world. For freedom for everyone!!

Response by SFC Benjamin Varlese made Mar 5 at 2022 1:26 PM

SFC Benjamin Varlese — Sat, 05 Mar 2022 13:26:04 -0500

I’m curious why you didn’t also tag Clinton and Biden. They both “dodged” the draft too if we’re using Trump’s medical deferment as the standard.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 6 at 2022 11:14 AM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 11:14:01 -0500

No to draft. Resources are already spent on dealing with volunteers who regret their entry into service. Draftees would present an overwhelming pool of people doing everything possible to avoid service. Money and valuable time would be wasted adjudicating each case of resistance. Then those who resisted but were forced into service would require constant oversight again wasted resources. I would exhaust at hearing them constantly reminding me “don’t want to be here.” I remember as a child growing up in the 60s comments such as “those draft dodgers would change their tune if America were invaded.” Well that ain’t true because we are being invaded on the southern border and that draft dodger in the whitehouse and those in congress do not care.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 6 at 2022 6:18 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 18:18:37 -0500

Here’s my sincere perspective on the issue. It wasn’t the draft dodgers that let down the service members in vietnam. It was the president, his cabinet, congress and the senate. History is repeating itself today . Our government is letting down the people of America. Because of our toxic government I would not send our service members anywhere because like the 13 dead on the tarmac in Afghanistan they would be left with no support from our commander and chief.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2022 11:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:41:31 -0400

After reading much of this I was surprised some thought President Ford pardoned the draft dodgers. I know who pardoned them... it was President Carter. For a number of years, I resented a POTUS that I had voted for. Over the years I viewed how President Carter lived his life... especially his starting the "Habitat for Humanity" that continues to provide homes to families who probably wouldn't be able to own one any other way. I also viewed how he lived his Christian Faith. It was only after my further understanding of my Christian Faith that I finally understood why President Carter pardoned them. Am I still upset that President Carter pardoned the Draft Dodgers... NO. Am I Upset at Those Who “Dodged the Draft” ... NO. They made a choice they have had to live with since they made their decision. To be upset with them would only have a negative effect on me... not them.
I noticed the month & day this originally posted was July 19th, (2018). The day I left for Vietnam was July 19th, 1970 & the day I returned was July 19th, 1971, thanks to the Grace Of God.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/president-carter-pardons-draft-dodgers#:~:text=%20President%20Carter%20pardons%20draft%20dodgers%20On%20January,evaded%20the%20draft%20during%20the%20Vietnam%20War%20.

HISTORY

Response by SSG Carl Gamel made Mar 18 at 2022 9:08 PM

SSG Carl Gamel — Fri, 18 Mar 2022 21:08:21 -0400

I am not mad at those who used legitimate deferments for education and then served. Most of our Officers , back then came from colleges,mostly ROTC, but also College Graduates that got drafted and then went to OCS.

Response by A1C Jj Birchard made Mar 27 at 2022 10:18 AM

A1C Jj Birchard — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:18:58 -0400

But doesn't it matter on just how those deferrals were obtained? Is Mohamed Ali's the same as Donald Trump's? I think not.

Response by SPC Ed Kittle made Apr 6 at 2022 9:05 AM

SPC Ed Kittle — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 09:05:46 -0400

i think donald trump is a chicken s--- and that he should never be a commander of anything. i , also, think every person in the united states should have to do at least 2 years of military service; male and female.

Response by MSgt Earl King made Apr 7 at 2022 1:56 AM

MSgt Earl King — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 01:56:56 -0400

Yep, trump dodged the draft, and bragged about and insulted Gold Star Families.

Response by MSgt Earl King made Apr 7 at 2022 7:31 PM

MSgt Earl King — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 19:31:53 -0400

I volunteered, my brothers volunteered, so all that jibber you wrote was really a waste of your time.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2022 9:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:39:39 -0400

Its been a long time ago i think no its history now

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2022 9:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:00:13 -0400

All I can say is he used legitimate reasons and asked for deferral. Where as those who just ran away. Some are still wanted to this day. Since that person failed his duty as a citizen, someone else took their place! So should a true “draft dodger” be reviled…what if that replacement was your dad, uncle or other family, how would you feel then?

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Apr 13 at 2022 9:09 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:09:46 -0400

To me yes you should be upset. A real man has an obligation as a man if drafted then it turns into his responsibility. If they dodge the draft they should be a girl.

Response by SSG Brian Whitney made Apr 13 at 2022 9:31 PM

SSG Brian Whitney — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 21:31:25 -0400

Draft dodgers in my opinion are cowards. For the most part the rich use their power and influence to buy those legal deferments. Bone spurs?? Cant join but can play sports? Come on!! Let's see the doctors diagnosis and paperwork for such a pathetic excuse to get out of the draft process. Asthma? How long? Whole childhood?

The rich using there power to get out of things like this erks me. If it was a poor inner city Brown guy would he of gotten that deferment?

I enlisted delay entry well after draft. I'm 45. I fought in Afghanistan. I'd do it all again.

Response by SSgt Mathew Cummings made Apr 14 at 2022 9:13 AM

SSgt Mathew Cummings — Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:13:51 -0400

My mother's brother joined the Marine Corps during Vietnam and ran away to Canada. I found out about it when he came up to me at a BBQ and said he was a Marine. When I found out what he did, I explained to him how he was never a Marine. I also explained he was no longer to speak to me. My father tried to enlist in the Marines during Vietnam, the denied him for his missing right eye. My father started a family, bought a house and was going to college and 2.5 years later the Army drafted him. My father told them to pound sand since they didn't want him when he was able to. I think each case should be judged independently, the same as every Veteran. I respect the Korea Vets that fought in the war, and I do mean fought. There was an entitled Vet that was stationed as an AF MP in the rear that said I didn't deserve to be called a Veteran since I was never in a real war. I think that each case is different, mind you I am not saying all are excused. I did my tours, I shed my blood and sweat in the sand box. We wouldn't have ability to distinguish Valor without cowardice.

Response by SGT Mike Serovey made Apr 22 at 2022 10:59 AM

SGT Mike Serovey — Fri, 22 Apr 2022 10:59:55 -0400

Although I "volunteered" I was coerced into joining the Army by a stepfather that did not want to support me. I worked my way up to E5 and now get 100% disability from the VA.
I am still morally opposed to forcing people to fight illegal wars.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made May 19 at 2022 11:20 AM

Cpl George Matousek — Thu, 19 May 2022 11:20:17 -0400

I don't like the ones who avoided the draft my fleeing the country, but they have to live with their beliefs had 2 friends who did that, but they snuck across the border to see me when I came home from Vietnam, only stayed for that visit and went right back to Canada, so I feel no hard feeling toward them.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made May 20 at 2022 6:34 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Fri, 20 May 2022 18:34:24 -0400

While I respect the opinion Maj John Bell at this point, it's all water under the bridge. I even forgive President Clinton. Even the most egregious "draft dodgers" are little more than feeble old men who can but live out the rest of their lives contending with their conscience. Most will be able to deal, and some will regret.

It's been years, nay decades. I say live and let live, regardless. I was a volunteer. When somebody says "Thank you for your service" it's for me. Not them, me. On my deathbed, I will be comforted by knowing that I served others for something bigger than me. This benefit is mine, and I cherish it. Anybody who avoided it won't have this benefit. That's good enough for me.

Response by SP5 Wick Humble made May 21 at 2022 12:42 AM

SP5 Wick Humble — Sat, 21 May 2022 00:42:13 -0400

Trump could have joined with his cohort (HS Class of '63) but he didn't; now he rants patriotism. He had a military education, mine was teaching. I didn't dodge the draft, and I served as ordered. I was not of the privileged class, he was -- and is. I don't preach 'Americanism' and cite Patton and MacArthur as my heroes -- he does, though I don't see how he dares, with no DD214! The rich only serve at their pleasure; deferments can be and are bought, with enough money. 'Nuff said!

Response by SSG Barry Toll made May 21 at 2022 4:11 PM

SSG Barry Toll — Sat, 21 May 2022 16:11:11 -0400

There is no doubt in my heart AND mind that Involuntary Servitude is enslavement. Therefore, I cannot condemn nor judge anyone who did what they could to avoid it. It was devastating to me, being drafted via "immediate conscription because i.t was alleged I was a "delinquent registrar" for the draft. A Major General at Ft. Lewis, Washington, put a letter on top of my file stating I was a "threat to good order and discipline" and a professional "malingerer" and that I should be given a rifle and sent as "far forward into combat" as soon as I arrived in Vietnam, as an Infartryman. I was accordingly sent into the Central Highlands, and my second day in the jungle mountains went up a hill with 105 other grunts, and five days later only 32 of us were evacuated from the hill. So, simply put, the Army did its professional best to get me killed dead, as fast as possible. I was decorated for valor twice in those first five days so they tore the General's letter out of my file. Later I became a Special Operations Team Leader in a Ranger designated unit and continued in the military for the next nine years. My final three years, carrying around the Presidential Nuclear Codes and standing ready to brief the President and guide him through a nuclear scenario. So, it turned out I was not a "malingerer" and they did try their damnedest to kill me off, but failed. I don't begrudge anyone for hightailing it to Canada or Sweden, seducing or bribing a doctor to obtain a deferment medical diagnoses, or just plain going on the lam. The Southeast Asian Conflicts were a genocidal series of wars that devastated millions upon millions of lives, and families. They were a form of legalized murder, crimes against humanity itself and murderously criminal. The fact that nobody has been sentenced to death or long, long imprisonment for them, save for one rotten, scapegoat Lieutenant (Calley) only illuminates that the least of the crimes was enslavement, "involuntary servitude" and must NEVER be allowed to recur. So far we have PROVEN we learned NOTHING for the cost of those millions of lives, and 58,000 some odd American lives; see, we are still, like insane people, repeating the exact same mistakes again and again, expecting a different result; let's face it: our strategies and tactics for limited warfares around the world in unconentional warfares have ALWAYS failed. You would think at least one moron in the Pentagon would say, "This stuff has never worked; it has been an unmitigated failure each and every time we've tried it. We need rid of these doctrines and we need an entire revision of what they're doing down at Fort Bragg and in the CIA..." and get it done before another 70,000 American lives are squandered on failed strategies, tactics and military-industrial catastrophes. If you don't understand that, you are part of the murderous problem in its' perpetuities.

Response by CPL William Brennan made May 25 at 2022 6:38 AM

CPL William Brennan — Wed, 25 May 2022 06:38:29 -0400

You left out Obama and Biden not serving....

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made May 29 at 2022 1:29 PM

SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM — Sun, 29 May 2022 13:29:52 -0400

I "dodged the draft"! I enlisted for 3 instead of waiting to be drafted for 2! Later I ended up on a "higher priority" assignment and got removed from Viet-Nam levy because of that!

Response by SP5 Peter Hawkins made May 30 at 2022 11:32 PM

SP5 Peter Hawkins — Mon, 30 May 2022 23:32:15 -0400

I still say a man should have served honorably before he steps up to call himself Commander In Chief.

Response by Pvt Joe Mcsherdon made Jun 2 at 2022 8:38 PM

Pvt Joe Mcsherdon — Thu, 02 Jun 2022 20:38:10 -0400

I agree with you I joined before most people ever heard of Vietnam or at least no war going on I joined out of desperation going on 17 with absolutely no future plans I had noting noting for me and all my family volunteered over the years to me it was a no brainer I admit I was worth less as a military men go at least that's what I was told and it kinda got branded in my mind.

Response by PO2 Joel Warthen made Jun 5 at 2022 9:36 PM

PO2 Joel Warthen — Sun, 05 Jun 2022 21:36:54 -0400

SSG Gerhard, I respectfully disagree with your definitions. My draft number was 68 and I decided to enlist for 3 reasons:
1. I could learn a trade.
2. I could show this country the gratitude that I have for all of the opportunities that it provides.
3. I could get a college education that I otherwise could not afford.
I learned much about the world and the people in it, both good and bad. There will always be those that avoid responsibility, that can not be changed but, some people need a little prodding sometimes. I was one of them. I consider it a fair trade, not indentured servitude and I am proud of my decision.

Response by SGT Eugene Jacobson made Jul 3 at 2022 4:38 PM

SGT Eugene Jacobson — Sun, 03 Jul 2022 16:38:16 -0400

I came from a family that had served in every war this nation had since arriving from Sweden in 1870. I enlisted in 1968 because I wanted college, had no money, dirt poor farm kid and I knew a draft was coming anyway (my birthday when it happened was number six, I'd been in for 18 months then), the idea of not serving never occurred to me. I've never felt anything like hatred or even disgust for those who refused and accepted their consequences. I didn't like then, and don't now, those who used money and influence to avoid service. I felt I owed something to this nation for my freedom and still do. What I dislike most of all is those who used every trick possible to avoid service and then later become "chicken hawks", unwilling to serve themselves but eager to send other people's children off to fight and die. Them I have complete contempt for and always will.

Response by Lt Col Steve Bonning made Jul 3 at 2022 5:43 PM

Lt Col Steve Bonning — Sun, 03 Jul 2022 17:43:53 -0400

I had to live through the draft period during Vietnam. It was a scary time and philosophically and morally a big dilemma for many. Like taxes, some chose to do anything and everything to avoid paying THAT piper. There's few under age 65-70 that have any idea what is was like to be an American teenager then so should not be in any credible position to judge.
Personally since it's been over 60 yrs, I think it's time to move on and let it go. When full equality happens and women are drafted during an active war, then perhaps the subject can be revisited.

Response by Sgt Terry Rizzuti made Jul 4 at 2022 7:44 AM

Sgt Terry Rizzuti — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:44:39 -0400

I agree with most of what’s said here. My biggest issue is with those who get elected to positions of authority and send our military all over the world killing people (as long as they’re not white) when they have no idea what it’s like being a grunt. And that especially includes all the draft dodgers of my generation who not only got to run our country, but saw to it that no Vietnam Vet got elected president.

Response by MSgt Earl King made Jul 4 at 2022 2:01 PM

MSgt Earl King — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 14:01:24 -0400

You are blowing a lot of wind SSG. A draft dodger who insults a Military Family who has lost a loved one or insults someone like John McCain is lower than whale crap! So please stop the back door White Washing!

Response by CH (MAJ) Eric Dye made Jul 4 at 2022 2:55 PM

CH (MAJ) Eric Dye — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 14:55:21 -0400

Interesting take and as far as I'm concerned I will have to think on it some. I would prefer an opportunity for everyone to serve in alternative manners; as the Korean and Israeli governments do (or at least did, as I'm no expert on recent obligations in both cultures at the present moment).
In my spiritual authority system, everyone was numbered in Israel and it was for military service. David was held accountable for doing it when God had not sanctioned it. However, previously allowed those exhausted from a long march to the front to stay "with the baggage" but they were stull allowed to share in the spoils for showing up. Sets up some princilples for universal service for a good and illegitimate cause. With leadership held accountable for the illegitimae one; sort of as I believe the allies did with the German people and leaders.
One of my beefs with Trump was, and I admit did not vote for him in the primaries but did in both general elections. I have an extreme disdain for what I have heard from his talk at times towards people who did serve. Yeah, he changed his tune somewhat after he became commander-in-chief but one of his problems is he is so caustic he is hard to like. I couldn't escape my personal feeling, gleaned from the way he talked about those of us who served; that he thought if we had been influential enough or smart enough (like he saw himself) we would not have gotten mixed up is such things.
Maybe, I'm victim of the media select presentation of him, but that is my feeling unless I see something different in the future. Also, whoever is managing his continuing campaign to get back into it is as obnoxious as they can be in the email, text and snail mail solicitations for support.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jul 4 at 2022 4:07 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 16:07:17 -0400

My take is, if you got out of serving for what ever. Never put yourself in a position of forcing someone else to do what you didn't want to do

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Jul 4 at 2022 5:34 PM

SPC Lyle Montgomery — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 17:34:56 -0400

Absolutely. I volunteered for the draft. I figured it was my duty to serve. I didn't want to be on the water so the Navy was out and didn't want to be a Marine so the Army was my choice. By volunteering for the draft I was enlisting in the Army for 2 years instead of 3 and had to take whatever the Army gave me for a MOS. which turned out to be 11 bravo. Also the marines at the induction canter couldn't snag me, although they tried. I was already in the Army. I carried an M60 in the bush in Quang Tri for my tour in Nam I was a combat infantryman and that was OK with me. A kid that I was in high school with went to canada. I consider him a Coward while 2 of my highschool classmates were killed in Nam. I have absolutely no respect for the chicken shit cowards that ran off to Canada

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Jul 4 at 2022 5:56 PM

SPC Lyle Montgomery — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 17:56:02 -0400

I don't have an issue with those who had legitamate deferments, but I don't have any use for the cowards who went to Canada to avoid the draft. I volunteered for the draft in 1969 after high school. I figured that it was my duty to serve. I don't like ships and the water so the Navy was out. I didn't want to be a Marine so the Army was my best choice. By volunteering for the draft I was enlisting in the Army for 2 years instead of 3 and at the induction center, the Marines tried to snag me but couldn't because I was already in the Army although they tried. I had to take whatever MOS that the Army would give me which turned out to be 11 bravo. At 18 I served as a combat infantry M60 gunner in Quang Tri Vietnam for my tour. I didn't complain and did my job and got out after my 2 years. One of my classmates took the chicken shit cowards route and went to Canada to avoid the draft. While 2 of my other classmates, one a good friend, both got killed in NAM. Those 2, I have the utmost respect for and none for the draftdodgers They are cowards plain and simple and I would piss on their grave.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Jul 4 at 2022 9:11 PM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 21:11:26 -0400

Although This Was Posted on Jul 19, 2018,
My Feelings Remain As They Always Have,
I Have No Use For The SOB'S;
Nor Do I Associate With Any Of Them.
While They Were Headed To Canada, I Joined Up...
You Know The Location Where THEY Can Kiss,

Response by PO1 Terry Scott made Jul 12 at 2022 5:34 PM

PO1 Terry Scott — Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:34:01 -0400

Before bone spurs gets you upset Joe* had five education deferments and still graduated last in his class.
When graduating high school if your family had money you got to study art history, if not you got a bus ticket. Those that avoided the draft dealt with their guilt by believing they were more moral instead of chicken s*. Kerry threw his fake medals over the White House fence hoping to get laid by a hippie chick. Don’t get me started.

Response by PO1 Terry Scott made Jul 12 at 2022 5:44 PM

PO1 Terry Scott — Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:44:04 -0400

It used to be the citizens with the most and the most to loose were the first to step up before getting drafted. There used to be more virtue when the alumni of the ivy halls went to church and believed in civic involvement. There always has been and currently are my family members serving. I had four relatives on the USN Cole. With Marxist teachers it’s only down hill.

Response by PO3 Kathy Getchey made Jul 17 at 2022 7:04 PM

PO3 Kathy Getchey — Sun, 17 Jul 2022 19:04:31 -0400

I don't care if they draft dodged, ran north, claimed Rhodes Scholarship, whatever, UNLESS they protested (by throwing garbage and feces at my husband) THEN claim vet status to get benefits from the VA.

Response by A1C Isa Kocher made Jul 29 at 2022 4:04 AM

A1C Isa Kocher — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 04:04:42 -0400

rich people who use wealth and power to avoid military service during times of war do not deserve any forgiveness. they dishonored themselves. giving years of free rent to a foot doctor whose report is used to avoid serving is dishonorable

i enlisted during the Cuba crisis.

during the vietnam war one of my housemates was a medal of honor winner who threw his medal of honor into the Potomac. two of my brothers were draft dodgers... both lucked out when their physicians falsified their health records. another brother was deferred because of albumen in their urine. another brother, a junior law partner of richard m nixon, while serving in the national guard got a discharge after serving part time for about a year: he requested a transfer to a unit closer to his wall street office and got discharged: guess which bothers consider by my actually serving in the military and having va disability, i am a malingerer. and who considers my university degrees as a veteran to be the fraud.

my two draft dodging brothers and i agree on the same basic responsibility of patriotism and love of country. the other two brothers agree on the love of money

Response by A1C Isa Kocher made Aug 5 at 2022 12:05 PM

A1C Isa Kocher — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 12:05:24 -0400

someone using their wealth power and position and by paying off others, getting a deferral under less than honest circumstances, while others served and sacrificed their lives, deserves to go to jail at least and to have their rights curtailed so that they cannot corrupt our union of the people again

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Aug 5 at 2022 1:50 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 13:50:29 -0400

Unfortunately we have a society that is not pro military. During both world wars young people were motivated to defend our way of life & I am thankful for all those before us.
Those who ‘dodged’ the draft legally, great. Those who ran, well, I don’t want to start a debate about what I think, but just like the immigrants coming here illegally, they should not benefit from any of our freedoms.

Response by PO2 Jimmie Shelnutt made Sep 13 at 2022 12:00 PM

PO2 Jimmie Shelnutt — Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:00:39 -0400

I enlisted in the Navy in 1965. I was honored to serve as a Corpsman with the USMC. I'm now 77 years old. The bitterness of that ancient war still lingers. Last spring, for the first time, I visited The Wall. After finding the names of three dear comrades, I broke down crying uncontrollably. More than 50 years now have past but the numbing anguish of those brutal days yet remain. Have I forgiven that wanton clique that betrayed my brothers? I have, only because I am compelled to do so by my Redeemer. But it is difficult, difficult, most difficult.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Oct 6 at 2022 10:53 AM

SSG Harry Herres — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 10:53:23 -0400

I enlisted, that is what I wanted to do. I was brought up believing no one owed me freedom happiness, or riches unless you were willing to work for it. The draft was there to fill a void in the military, not enough enlisted. You want your freedom, happiness and riches, you had better be willing to fight for them. Draft dodgers are leeches. They want all the benefits but want others to to give them to them. I know too many, dodgers, who still after 50 years still live off others and have never worked for America only them selves. Leeches.

Response by SGT Stephen Rowland made Oct 9 at 2022 9:30 PM

SGT Stephen Rowland — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 21:30:08 -0400

I may be 4 years late on this topic, my father was there before me and I volunteered and we both hate Jane Fonda. Fear is instinctual and serves our species to survive. We all handle it differently, and I imagine that guilt of being a coward is a heavy cross to bear. I don’t care if you went to Canada, or hid out in Mexico because we haven’t learned any of the lessons that were required to stop future battles.

Response by HN Jon Mann made Nov 4 at 2022 4:25 PM

HN Jon Mann — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 16:25:38 -0400

My father was a lifer, 3 wars. He became an anti-war pacifist so I learned from him.

His advice advice to me was to volunteer for the draft so I wouldn't get sent to Vietnam, so I served as a US Navy Musician and never even got on board a ship. I was a REMFer

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 28 at 2022 7:38 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 28 Nov 2022 19:38:38 -0500

I heard a story about a man who was deferred from serving in Vietnam because of bone spurs. However, in his 70s he can dance and play golf. Hallelujah, we witnessed a miracle! He has such a brilliant and prolific mind that he was able to become a military genius of greater stature than our general officers due to Junior ROTC. I am sure that he keenly understands the strategic theories and paradigms of warfare and operational planning. Tactically he is brilliant like Patton. If only the doctor had not prevented him from serving. I think we would have won the Vietnam War had he served in that war. He is a true war president. This military genius said ISIS was destroyed. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Nov 29 at 2022 4:21 PM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Tue, 29 Nov 2022 16:21:43 -0500

Personally I'd Have Liked To See Them Charged With Desertion.
I Have Absolutely NO Respect For Those Bastards..

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Nov 29 at 2022 9:25 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Tue, 29 Nov 2022 21:25:45 -0500

Short answer: No.
Let them be. It's their loss.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2022 8:38 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Dec 2022 20:38:20 -0500

The correct answer to this questions, YES, they all are traitors with no exception, yes you could have been against the war but they all could have done alternative service as some did. These traitors based on their desertion should not have any rights and all should be in jail or SHOT! I did not agree with the war but I decided to see for myself so I served 37 years DOING WHAT WAS BEST AND RIGHT, I DID NOT RUN!

Response by SN Harold McClure made Jan 12 at 2023 7:07 PM

SN Harold McClure — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 19:07:37 -0500

I received my draft notice in late summer 1967 after finishing high school in June. Although I was in agreement with the reasons for us being in South Vietnam, I did not support the way the US was conducting the war. The US Navy had a recruitment incentive guaranteeing 'no Pacific theater' assignments. I enlisted under those terms and served on a destroyer escort in the Atlantic. So, in essence, I am a legal draft dodger who was able to retain my personal honor.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jan 20 at 2023 10:20 AM

SGT Erick Holmes — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:20:21 -0500

It's tough on this. If the law says you can avoid it by this that and the other thing and you followed the law then I personally can't get mad at you. The law/rule says this and you followed it. I won't like it but I can't get mad at you. It goes along with people who make some bogus claims with VA and they get the claims. They followed the rules you know. Its a tough Motrin 800 pill to swallow but it is what it is and there is not much we can do about it. I figure if you do what your suppose to do and worry about yourself then your good. It's a crap answer but at the end of the day or your career you have to take of yourself.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Jan 21 at 2023 8:08 AM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:08:34 -0500

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing. We were in the Big Sand Box together! I served in OIF III, 04-05. Baghdad, Bucca, Abu Ghraib and Ashraf. You? Anyhow, we have laws. If you break the law there are consequences. Politicizing the draft doesn't change it or the rules. If you break the rules, you pay the price, or should. I am exceedingly proud of our all volunteer military, especially those who joined after 9/11/2001, knowing they could be going to war. I joined in 1986, and was in anyway for the s**t. I was honored to serve with these selfless patriots. Since the draft riots of the Civil War, the question has been, in a democracy, is it involuntary servitude to be drafted? Is it rule of exigency to force others to risk their lives for the common good? As a Libertarian, I lean on the side of involuntary servitude. Yet, the common sense part of me says if no one served we'd be speaking German, Japanese or Russian. If you removed resistance to the 2nd Amendment altogether, and folks were able to really organize ourselves into militia, no force on earth could challenge us on our home turf. Drafting to defend the nation seems like such a desperate act, but currently, the WOKE military is not able to fill open spots, and the future does not look bright. My question is, are draftees what we really want on the front lines or manning communications, missiles defense systems, etc. The modern military requires highly qualified, not barely or underqualified recruits. We need the best and brightest, not the margins of society. And we need them motivated, not reluctant.

Response by MSgt Earl King made Jan 21 at 2023 11:19 AM

MSgt Earl King — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:19:30 -0500

Wind bag who thinks he is brilliant!!

Response by PO1 Robert Ryan made Jan 21 at 2023 9:15 PM

PO1 Robert Ryan — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:15:07 -0500

My Uncle Bobby was a WWII Marine. My cousin joined the Marines in 1968. He finished boot at Paris island and Training at Little Creek Virginia, He got orders to cross the big puddle to Vietnam. His Girlfriend told him if went she wouldn't be waiting for him. He chose to desert and went to Canada with her. It devastated my Uncle Bobby who at first was so proud my cousin enlisted in the Marines. Uncle Bobby passed in Summer 1986. my cousin was not at his funeral. I have come to terms with his choice, but still feel bad for my Uncle Bobby.

Response by CSM Jerry Weldon made Feb 17 at 2023 10:21 AM

CSM Jerry Weldon — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:21:51 -0500

Total freedom does not exist in this world. We are dependent on somebody or something throughout our life. There will always be the givers and takers. Received my draft notice in 1967, made a decision to join and have a choice in my MOS. That decision was based on family values instilled in me, you give in order to get. We would not be a free country today if there were no givers, what makes the next person any different than me? That draft notice changed my direction, without it I can truthfully say that there was no direction. In context, this is not a free country, somebody has to pay the price. I support a draft, it will get you off your booty.

Response by CPL Larry Frias Jr made Feb 27 at 2023 6:26 PM

CPL Larry Frias Jr — Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:26:03 -0500

For those of you who dodged the draft ….F you ……I volunteered in the early seventies …combat arms 25th Infantry Division 27th Wolfhounds ….sometimes one has to serve in harms way to make it count …I’m not a grunt no more , now I’m a lawyer ….you just have to make it count !!!!!!

Response by CPL Larry Frias Jr made Feb 27 at 2023 6:27 PM

CPL Larry Frias Jr — Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:27:30 -0500

The sacrifice it takes to be an

Response by CPL Larry Frias Jr made Feb 28 at 2023 2:20 PM

CPL Larry Frias Jr — Tue, 28 Feb 2023 14:20:48 -0500

I have a ton of respect for those who volunteered in harms way in the combat arms units …and I also have respect for the draftees who ended up in harms way but I have no respect for those who fled to Canada or Mexico just to be safe .

Response by CPL Larry Frias Jr made Feb 28 at 2023 2:22 PM

CPL Larry Frias Jr — Tue, 28 Feb 2023 14:22:33 -0500

Next time shoulder a weapon when there’s a call to arms !

Response by Lt Col Jeff J. made Apr 26 at 2023 4:56 PM

Lt Col Jeff J. — Wed, 26 Apr 2023 16:56:36 -0400

My dad got multiple education deferments from the draft so he did not have to serve during the Vietnam era. The problem I have now is he is a volunteer in the Sons of American Legion Chaplain serving Vietnam era veterans, but he was only qualified for the position because of his father's ONE day of service in the US Navy in 1919 when WWI ended (and was paid $1 by Uncle Sam). This is the same guy who refused to sign for me to enlist in the Air Force at age 17 upon graduating from high school in 1987. Even as a Pentagon 9/11/2001 survivor with 21 years of service in the Air Force, he never respected my life choice to serve my country and never even contacted me after 9/11. Draft dodging + stolen valor + lack of support for his own son's service to our nation does not make him a patriot, in my opinion.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2023 11:40 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 May 2023 11:40:28 -0400

The guys who served in Vietnam have the right to be upset. As a current service member who wasn't alive during the Vietnam War I don't think I have the right. I think we can have an opinion but being upset belongs to the guys who fought and blead in Vietnam.

Response by PFC Joe Mcsherdon made Jul 9 at 2023 6:53 PM

PFC Joe Mcsherdon — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 18:53:15 -0400

I joined in 7/63 I helped my brother to stay away from Vietnam one of my brothers already went to Vietnam after I was their.itwas a stupid useless war my brother died of agent orange liver cancer I'm 140%disabled agent orange has really worked on me hell plus 63/64 toxic camp Lejeune 66/67 again toxic camp Lejeune.

Response by 1LT Brandon Brackett made Jul 9 at 2023 8:42 PM

1LT Brandon Brackett — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 20:42:10 -0400

they dodged the draft, people have been dodging them ever since

Response by 1stSgt Ronald Sheps made Jul 10 at 2023 7:56 AM

1stSgt Ronald Sheps — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 07:56:22 -0400

"Dodging the draft" came in many flavours. Educational deferments were readily available to those who wanted them, and were a legal part of the process. I think of them in the same light as tax loopholes. (Remember the gym teacher shortage deferral?) As to those who actually fled the country, I almost have more respect for them. They didn't want to pay the price of living here so they left. At tremendous personal sacrifice for most.

The idea of an all volunteer professional military on paper sounds perfect. The reality may be that there will come a time when we are just spread too thin for the goals intended by our leaders. I would sooner see a system of National Service for two years for all. Don't want to wear a uniform? - then work in a hospital, work in a school, build roads - anything to give back a fraction of what we receive as citizens here in America.

Those of us who served have a special place in our society, and the increase in men of my age who avert their eyes when they hear I served speaks for itself. The pendulum has swung.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Jul 15 at 2023 12:26 AM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Sat, 15 Jul 2023 00:26:57 -0400

No. It is their loss.

Response by LCpl George Gocheff made Jul 15 at 2023 10:00 PM

LCpl George Gocheff — Sat, 15 Jul 2023 22:00:54 -0400

Could not have stated my agreement with you any more succinctly. I agree with your narrative 100%.

Response by Amn James Clark made Jul 21 at 2023 7:36 AM

Amn James Clark — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 07:36:09 -0400

Upset - no. But they should surrender their right to hold national political office.

Response by PFC Joe Mcsherdon made Jul 24 at 2023 4:50 PM

PFC Joe Mcsherdon — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 16:50:08 -0400

Why has this keep coming up it's been almost 60 years half of them are already dead I only have the way we were treated by the country as a whole to be angry at and some of the greatest generation were outright slugs to be truthful knowing what I know today I would have run away to.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2023 4:28 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:28:15 -0400

"Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft?" No.

I wasn't there at that point in time, and only need concern myself with the problems before me right now today. There is simply to much hyperbole rolled into concerning myself with what someone did or didn't do and why.

Don't let someone else take up free rent in your head, they're not paying you for the space!

Response by SP5 Bill Merritt made Aug 1 at 2023 8:44 PM

SP5 Bill Merritt — Tue, 01 Aug 2023 20:44:47 -0400

Very articulate and persuasive statement, Sarge. Thanks. A few thoughts:
I agree with you about Clinton’s right to take advantage of the law and not serve. What I have a LOT of trouble with is his going to London and demonstrating against the Vietnam War. Americans don’t do that, not in foreign countries. To me, that’s tantamount to giving aid and comfort to the enemy, which I find very hard to forget.

Maybe you said this when you discussed people who ran, but to me taking the oath, serving, then jumping a plane to Sweden when your orders came is in a whole nother category. I grew up with a kid who did this. A year or so later one of the local DJ’s did a live, overseas interview with him in which he complained about the bad press he’d been getting. The radio guy asked him, “Well what did you expect, Buddy? A medal of honor?” Always did like that DJ.

Oddly, the army in Vietnam was mostly volunteer in the sense that nobody really had to go. There were just too many ways out. Bone spurs from a friendly doctor. Dump sugar in your urine sample and become a diabetic-for-a-day. Enroll in your local junior college, knock up some girl and turn into a daddy, become a teacher. Take off your clothes, run downtown naked, get busted as a lunatic, then try to enlist and tell the recruiting sgt you “want to kill Charlie.” Find religion. There were so many dodges anybody could beat the draft.

Response by SGT Chad Goethe made Aug 5 at 2023 2:10 PM

SGT Chad Goethe — Sat, 05 Aug 2023 14:10:22 -0400

I can honestly say that everyone made their own choice at the time they were presented it. They have to live with it, and any and all repercussions that come of it, namely any negative views on it. I generally have an attitude that I just keep to myself at this point, and worry about the things I can control. This is not one of them. I chose to serve my country (twice), and I know I can generally count on someone who volunteered to serve to have my back if the situation were to arise. Take that for what its worth…

Response by PO3 Dn King made Aug 28 at 2023 1:23 PM

PO3 Dn King — Mon, 28 Aug 2023 13:23:29 -0400

We are a nation of free people; in concept, at least. Freedom requires us to be responsible for our convictions. If we're to go to war because some German clown wants to murder citizens, I'm there. If we're to go to war because some rich American clown wants to stop Iranian oil fields from being nationalized? Because some other rich American clown wants to keep corporate property safe in Viet Nam? Or manage pistachio nut prices? I'm on the side of General Smedley Butler. The US military is outside of its moral use when mobilized for greed. It is the duty of a free person to refuse such service. When the full force of the US government will be turned against only the least powerful dissenters - never rich kids, never college kids, never a preacher's kid - I refuse to question the way those citizens chose to avoid forced inscription on behalf of men who guard their own children with fake commissions and bribes.

To add context to my views: I am a disabled combat veteran, my father died of injuries sustained in Viet Nam, his father unknowingly flew bombing runs over his little brother's dead body on the shores of Peleliu, my mother met my father as she tended the wounds of our service members as a corpsman, her father survived a life "half-assed" after literally leaving the other half somewhere in Korea and her brother, a man I remember as being hilariously funny and kind when I was a child, now occupies the last of his years staring at a wall and refusing to speak to anyone but his wife. My sister nearly died of blood loss from an injury as a Navy electrician in the Western Pacific, requiring a direct transfusion to buy time for surgery. Her son, my nephew, recently making the rank of veteran, marks the first generation in my family's American history to avoid military trauma. We are a family who has served continuously since WW1, never drafted. So please don't tell me how I undervalue honor. I volunteered, I don't regret volunteering, yet I did so to preserve the right of others to refuse that path.

The only draft skipping people I abhor are the Ted Nugent types, people who go to extremes to shirk their military duty only to spend the rest of their lives in faux manliness waving guns and calling others cowards. Never mock someone for not having the courage to do what you literally crapped your pants to avoid doing.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2023 10:49 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:49:43 -0400

Draft ended 50 years ago. Many are retired or deceased. They made a free choice, knowing the consequences. At least they made a choice and lived with it. At this point, and military service is not required for public office, the issue is moot.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Sep 4 at 2023 1:33 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 13:33:42 -0400

Most of these guys are 70-80 years old. GIVE IT A REST. When did the draft end? Try 1973. I sure most of us could care less. They had a choice to make and made it. I had friend in both--dodgers and service members of which I had a cousin killed in Viet Nam. I lost friend because of the war. It's over. The US was not victorious. LIFE GOES ON.

Response by SP5 Wick Humble made Sep 4 at 2023 2:12 PM

SP5 Wick Humble — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 14:12:59 -0400

The difference, bottom line, is if one took a medical deferment to avoid service and then 1.) lectured the nation on 'patriotism' ad nauseam, 2.) cited Patton and MacArthur as his heroes, and 3.) disparaged and disrespected Americans who served (often with great distinction - McCain) or considered honorable battle dead as 'losers' -- then yes, I resent that person highly.
BTW: the educational deferment was from a draft board, not the military per se, and was understood by everyone to be only temporary, a 'stay of execution' as it were; the draft was going to get you at the end of it, no question. Unless you found some Doc to sign-off on a medical condition, and AND then it passed the Armed Forces face-to-face medical review. I took the former*, accepted the latter, and served the term required by the Army; I did what they said to do, and went where they said to go -- period. I have a DD214 and an Honorable; a loud and rich politician never did -- nor will.
As McCain said, the draft proved to take conscripts from the lowest tier of our economic strata's, and seldom from the highest. Upset, of course!
*Worked my way through college to BA as a fire-fighter (Crew Boss), never borrowed a cent. GI Bill helped for grad school, though!

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Sep 5 at 2023 2:59 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 02:59:01 -0400

No One that thought themselves too good to serve, I.E. Clinton, Trump, Biden, Obama, and the likely next resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave deserved to be in that big ol' white building.
NO ONE who did not wear a uniform and could have been sent into harm's way should ever be allowed to hold an office where they can send someone else into harm's way.
Oh and just so it is fair, the pundits on Fox News that always rattle the saber for the US to send in troops, yet they never served themselves, like Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, are rattling a saber that they did not earn the right to rattle.
I would restrict most federal offices to veterans, you are less likely to deploy troops for stupid reasons if you have been deployed for stupid reasons.

Response by James Miller made Sep 13 at 2023 9:50 PM

James Miller — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 21:50:34 -0400

Why didn't you mention Clinton doing the Rough Scholar route to get out of the draft or Bidens 5 deferrals for medical reasons when he was a football star and an lifeguard?

Response by PO3 Ted G made Sep 17 at 2023 1:12 PM

PO3 Ted G — Sun, 17 Sep 2023 13:12:14 -0400

When I was in there were a lot of senior enlisted that had a star in their national defense medal, I was in pre 9/11. Those guys were my friends, they either volunteered, or received an invitation from the government to take an all expenses paid trip to Southeast Asia that they really did not like to talk about at all. When I got out I met a lot of people that declined those free government trips. I will tell you this, I am really glad that the people that refused those trips are ageing out of the workforce because they are pretty useless. I know and knew a lot of guys that went, also some that were asked to go and didn't, and a lot that were never asked to go, The ones that went, and the ones that were never asked to go ranged from messed up, alright and all the way to really great people, the ones that were asked to go and didn't were almost always people that would stab you in the back to get the least bit ahead every chance they got. Lesson learned, never trust a draft dodger, they will do whatever it takes to get ahead and they have no problem throwing anyone under the bus to get what they want.

Response by Maj Bruce Miller made Oct 14 at 2023 1:22 PM

Maj Bruce Miller — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 13:22:18 -0400

For those of us who were of draft age during the period 1968-1973, we remember how hated the military and its members were at that time, as though belonging to the military meant that somehow you were responsible for the Vietnam conflict. Evading the draft thru deferments was a cottage industry. I admire and salute those who through conscription or through their own election, served in the armed forces in Vietnam or in other support billets wherever they were. But the pressure to stay out was great in most US cities and on college campuses...a world far removed from today's public perception of military service.

Response by COL Jim Lincoln made Nov 15 at 2023 1:23 AM

COL Jim Lincoln — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 01:23:25 -0500

Trump dodged the draft? yes-but so did 3 other Presidents-Clinton Bush and yes,Biden.Two used a bogus medical ailment (Trump and Biden) and two used other reasons that were not legitimate.I explained all this in previous post. I may be more sensitive than most-spent 32 months in Vietnam. One of my jobs in Vietnam was a company commander-had about half draftees-they did fine in combat.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2023 9:48 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 21:48:27 -0500

Your arguments could be used for being forced to pay taxes, in a way, and this country rebelled over taxes.

I chose to serve and would do so again and I never really thought about draft dodgers. I honestly never cared. The only times I did not look favorably on draft dodgers of the past was when they bragged about it, bragged about being Jody because they dodged the draft, and did so illegally.

Now, let's bring to modern times.

People voted for the current administration and for policies that support intervention into international conflicts. I would think the worst of those particular voters if they then decided to dodge the draft because they did not want to do the fighting, but rathered someone else fight for a war they supported.

To those that voted against foreign wars? I can respect them because they stuck to their beliefs. I have also begun to view "draft dodging" as a way for these voters to say "fuck you" to the pro war politicians and government.

To each their own. But I'll be honest with my snap decision. Being a draft dodger is nothing to be proud of.

Response by LTC George Monsson made Dec 17 at 2023 8:25 PM

LTC George Monsson — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 20:25:55 -0500

I'll take exception with your comparison of slavery with conscription where you use the phrase "without due process." In each case where the US has imposed a draft, Civil War, WW1,WW2, Korea, Cold War, and Viet Nam the law has been passed by Congress, signed by the President, and when challenged in the courts, upheld as Constitutional. All the process due and more.
Historically, conscription has only been imposed when the number of volunteers were insufficient to fight wars deemed in the national interest by the elected representatives of the people. The Civil War draft law was probably the worst in application with a provision that people could hire substitues and large bounties given for enlisting.
As someone who lived through the Viet Nam draft and had educational deferments and joined ROTC and served as a combat infantryman in Viet Nam I can say that depending on who you were and how much money you had controlled how easy or difficult it was to get a deferment, particularly medical deferments That seems to be the case with Donald Trump.
Just to tell a war story, I had a roommate who was a pacifist. While seving as an Infantry Platoon Leader in Viet Nam I wrote a letter in his support to the local draft board. His was the first deferment granted by that draft board for pacifism for someone who was not affiliated with certain church groups such as Quakers.

Response by 1LT Lincoln Davis made Dec 23 at 2023 9:51 AM

1LT Lincoln Davis — Sat, 23 Dec 2023 09:51:42 -0500

Vietnam , for those who had the money dodging the draft was relatively easy as the draft boards and clerks were people who were susceptible to pressure influence and money, by 1967 the female anti war were in the majority and for seniors and college students that was heavy influence to buy out and if no money or influence attempt to join the reserves national guard or run . I have little respect for the buy outs and the Guard and reserves at that time were a pretty safe bet but running took a bit more courage

Response by SP5 Larry Boggs made Dec 26 at 2023 3:56 PM

SP5 Larry Boggs — Tue, 26 Dec 2023 15:56:31 -0500

The draft system when I was drafted in 1968 was a corrupt institution It was applied without any real transparency and families with influence did get their sons exempted I had a college deferment and I did not view that as draft dodging

Response by SP5 Larry Boggs made Dec 26 at 2023 4:22 PM

SP5 Larry Boggs — Tue, 26 Dec 2023 16:22:22 -0500

Sorry hit post by accident Starting over

I was drafted in 1969 and went to Vietnam with a combat support MOS (field wireman) but was assigned as a clerk at USARV Hq at Long Binh no doubt because I had a college degree

I didn’t want to be drafted or to go to Vietnam, not because I opposed the war or thought immoral (I didn’t). I simply didn’t want to die and believed that I would if I were But I also was t going to ru or hide as I believed then, as I do now, that citizenship has obligations as well as benefits

The draft system when I was drafted in 1968 was a corrupt institution. It was applied with no transparency by local boards and families with influence and connections did get their sons out of the process. Yes, I resent that those individuals didn’t serve as much as I resent those that left the country to avoid service.

I had a college deferment for 4 years I didn’t view it as draft dodging then or now On reflection, however, I view it was unfair to others that didn’t have the where with all to go to college I believe citizens should be treated equally and I should have had no more rights than others based on ability to pay for college a fair system would be to have put every one on the same playing field with service required between ages of 18-22 regardless of what you were doing or who your family knew

While I hated being drafted and going to Vietnam, again on reflection, it was good for me It matured me and taught me to stand on my own two feet I need look at the younger generations in my own family to see that service would have done them a lot of good I believe mandatory national service including a fairly administered draft would be good for the country now. We have to many that may be adults in age but not in character

Now back to the question should we be upset with draft dodgers? My response is it’s been too long ago to be “upset” But yes I have and do in the exercise of my right to vote, give preference to those that served.

Response by CPO Greg H made Jan 4 at 2024 12:33 PM

CPO Greg H — Thu, 04 Jan 2024 12:33:52 -0500

To serve or not is a personal choice today.
I chose to serve (1992-2016). I grew up on military bases overseas and state side during the Vietnam War.
My issue is with those that took deferment or just flat out didn't serve claiming to support the military and veterans but whose actions prove otherwise. And I especially dislike all the "Chickenhawks" .

Response by SPC Rodger Bell made Jan 17 at 2024 3:21 PM

SPC Rodger Bell — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 15:21:46 -0500

is it okay for rich kids to not be drafted and not go is that fair

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Jan 18 at 2024 5:17 PM

PVT Mark Whitcomb — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 17:17:36 -0500

I enlisted. I was able to pick my first duty station. Many in my unit were 2yr draftees.... I couldn't care less what others did. They have to deal with what they did. It does not affect me so why waste time feeling one way or the other? It's just wasteful time I can spend doing something productive. If the draft were re-instated how many do you think would bail now??? With Women in combat roles would they have to be eligible also?

Response by Sgt Terry Rizzuti made Jan 23 at 2024 4:49 PM

Sgt Terry Rizzuti — Tue, 23 Jan 2024 16:49:50 -0500

The only thing I disagree with is the statement of only wanting those who’ve willingly joined to be fighting beside me. I’m a Vietnam Vet with Purple Heart. Some of my closest friends were drafted. They fought as hard and well as those of us who joined, sometimes bled or died, because when it comes right down to it, you fight for your buddies and to stay alive, not for flag or country. You learn that the enemy does the same thing, so you learn to respect them too. Finally, wars should be fought on all fronts, so you learn to forgive the draft dodgers, even the wealthy ones who bought their way out of the draft with fake injuries and flunking school grades. It’s all part of the mental healing process, part of ridding yourself of hate.

Response by SP5 Wick Humble made Feb 19 at 2024 1:33 PM

SP5 Wick Humble — Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:33:46 -0500

Good post, but I do blame anyone in politics who beats his (her) chest about military power, and hasn't walked the walk. Especially when they make deprecatory remarks about those who served, and the honored dead! Not all POTUS served, but some didn't act disrespectfully toward serving Americans and Veterans. One, on the other hand, not only has done that, but cited MacArthur and Patton in at least two presidential debates -- when he probably knows zip about the men, two of our most flamboyant and often outrageous generals -- and also had a military school background.
Conspiracy lovers: of course, now witnesses have come forward to swear that he bribed a physician (their father) to give him 'a doctor's excuse' from the draft, heel bone spurs.
I have bone spurs, and I sure couldn't have marched with them, but mine took 40-years to manifest themselves; the VA is treating them finally, and I'm back to taking two-mile walks every day, but there is still pain and collateral ankle damage. I sure as heck couldn't play tennis, tho riding around eighteen holes of golf in an electric cart wouldn't be too bad!
Yes, if you avoided the dreadful draft, at least don't crow about it. I didn't want to go, but I was 1A, was inducted, and served my term. So was my best friend, also in basic at Ft. Lewis with me, and he was KIA in 'Nam six months after we raised our right hands and took that step forward. I couldn't face his folks for years... their only son. Still makes me depressed. So, tread carefully, draft dodgers!

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Feb 19 at 2024 6:35 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Mon, 19 Feb 2024 18:35:04 -0500

No. It's their loss, no ours.

Response by SP5 Donna Barr made Feb 20 at 2024 11:46 AM

SP5 Donna Barr — Tue, 20 Feb 2024 11:46:26 -0500

Nah. I joined to get away from home and for the goodies, like most people, regardless of the Freiheit fairy tale. My husband was drafted (getting him double tinnitus, a weather-predicting bone, and a cameo in Forrest Gump), and wished he'd "gone to Canada." I later marched with hippies against the draft. War is for stupid people. And thieves. There's a meme going around "Hi! We hear you have oil - let us bring you democracy!" Note: the military is moving toward green energy because they're tired of all the blood for oil.

Response by SPC Rebecca Cann made Feb 23 at 2024 6:03 PM

SPC Rebecca Cann — Fri, 23 Feb 2024 18:03:59 -0500

I am a disabled veteran from Desert Storm, retired from civilian workforce as well. After the war, I married a 'Nam draft dodger. He was a very proud and immature "dodger". I proclaim he was 7 years old before and throughout our marriage, particularly during divorce negotiations. He suffered thyroid dysfunction from birth so that he shed piles of dried skin and gained weight likely up to 700 pounds by time of death. He drank $400 worth of booze per week throughout our marriage and after (age 39 thru death at age 58). From birth, he suffered flat feet and morbid obesity, likely would not have been accepted into the Army even under draft regulations: He was neither educated nor military officer material. His mother planned to send him to Canada with her full financial support, never expecting him to support himself, even after he married. For more than a decade, he 1.) insinuated that he could fire or handle weapons better than I could; 2.) always answered the front door with a loaded gun in his right hand; 3.) never used CLP on any of the 20 handguns, rifles or shotguns that he charged on my credit card, but used carburetor cleaner instead; 4.) never picked up any firearm manual to learn how to unscrew the gun in order to wipe away his dead skin stuck on springs and powdered throughout inner-pistol workings. I've been shooting guns and rifles since I was 8. I fired my first shotgun at age 12. Somewhere during my pre-teens, I learned how to clean a rifle or air pistol after firing. Unfortunately, I see this level of immaturity and irresponsibility in most men my age and younger. The draft turned boys into men before my time. It seems nothing can help boys grow up during this day and age.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Feb 23 at 2024 11:54 PM

1SG John Millan — Fri, 23 Feb 2024 23:54:28 -0500

Biden, Clinton, Bush 43, all dodged it.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Feb 25 at 2024 8:21 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Sun, 25 Feb 2024 20:21:23 -0500

For those who chose to head North of the border or whatever they did to dodge the draft, those individuals have to live with that.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Mar 4 at 2024 5:22 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Mon, 04 Mar 2024 17:22:53 -0500

NO PERSON, regardless of reason, should be allowed to be elected into a position or office that can send someone into harm's way that never in a position to have been sent themselves. Nuff Said.

Response by MSgt George Murray made Mar 25 at 2024 5:36 AM

MSgt George Murray — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 05:36:23 -0400

I believe the key to the message is in one line, "I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us." My brother served in the Army during Korea. My Uncle Pat was a radio man for Gen Patton. I drove for B. General Jimmy Stewart during his time in Panama. Not everyone can serve. I've enjoyed it.

Response by CPL Ronald Keyes Jr made Apr 8 at 2024 4:45 AM

CPL Ronald Keyes Jr — Mon, 08 Apr 2024 04:45:47 -0400

I do agree to a certain extent but honestly to play devils advocate I think the government should make every student who graduates from high school either join the mandatory 2 year military service or choose the opt out version either going to school or other special intersex jobs fields to be honest.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Apr 8 at 2024 8:48 AM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Mon, 08 Apr 2024 08:48:48 -0400

I am one of those who consider Trump, Biden and Clinton to be draft dodgers. I do not have an issue with education defernments. After all they were just deferments. Many men having completed their education went on to serve and some died in Vietnam. However Clinton did not have any legitimate reason to avoid serving. He played the system.

Both Trump and Biden after they used their 2-S status found alleged medical reasons for deferments. I don't know if Trump's "bone Spurs" were real or not or if they were serious enough to make him ineligble to be useful in some non combat MOS. It certainly has not impacted his ability to play golf. I also object to an individual who having found a way to avoid service himself makes remarks about those who did serve. Refering to them as suckers or losers. He attacks real American patriots like John McCain, Generals Kelly, Milley or Mattis in disrespectful terms while supporting others who attacked the congress as patriots. Men who served the nation for decades.

As for Biden I have not much to say except that his aleged Asthma didn't keep him from participating in sports in HS and college.