SFC Private RallyPoint Member 127228 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ok I&#39;ll admit it, I&#39;m a gym rat and like to do PT on my own because I know what I need, I know my limits and I know what I don&#39;t need. I&#39;ve never found any benefit to Guerrilla drills, log PT or flipping gigantic tires and if I ever end up having to pull my HMMWV down the road I will be speaking with my mechanics.<br />Seriously though the majority of unit led PT I see is sorely inadequate and ultimately ends up with everyone doing what one person thinks they need to do. How can we say that we have an organization of professionals yet we don&#39;t trust them to take charge of their own physical fitness? Sure there are those soldiers that when confronted with a choice would rather not do PT but that just shows that they don&#39;t want to be here, easy fix. <br />The Army said I need to pass a PT test twice a year and meet HT/WT standards, got it, and I go to the gym nearly everyday to meet those standards, I don&#39;t need someone to tell me what to do. The Army also says I need to come to work everyday but no one comes to my house and wakes me up. <br />The point I&#39;m trying to make is that disciplined soldiers will do what needs to be done even when no one is watching in order to meet the standard and accomplish the mission. The undisciplined soldiers won&#39;t and that will help us to get rid of them but we need to treat the good soldiers like adults. If they can&#39;t be trusted to do what&#39;s expected then we don&#39;t need them in the first place. 2014-05-15T07:52:21-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 127228

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ok I&#39;ll admit it, I&#39;m a gym rat and like to do PT on my own because I know what I need, I know my limits and I know what I don&#39;t need. I&#39;ve never found any benefit to Guerrilla drills, log PT or flipping gigantic tires and if I ever end up having to pull my HMMWV down the road I will be speaking with my mechanics.<br />Seriously though the majority of unit led PT I see is sorely inadequate and ultimately ends up with everyone doing what one person thinks they need to do. How can we say that we have an organization of professionals yet we don&#39;t trust them to take charge of their own physical fitness? Sure there are those soldiers that when confronted with a choice would rather not do PT but that just shows that they don&#39;t want to be here, easy fix. <br />The Army said I need to pass a PT test twice a year and meet HT/WT standards, got it, and I go to the gym nearly everyday to meet those standards, I don&#39;t need someone to tell me what to do. The Army also says I need to come to work everyday but no one comes to my house and wakes me up. <br />The point I&#39;m trying to make is that disciplined soldiers will do what needs to be done even when no one is watching in order to meet the standard and accomplish the mission. The undisciplined soldiers won&#39;t and that will help us to get rid of them but we need to treat the good soldiers like adults. If they can&#39;t be trusted to do what&#39;s expected then we don&#39;t need them in the first place.

2014-05-15T07:52:21-04:00 2014-05-15T07:52:21-04:00 MSG Wade Huffman 127234

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I hear what you&#39;re saying and I&#39;ll go out on a limb here and say that organized PT will go away around the same time that they do away with the reflective belts!!

2014-05-15T08:15:08-04:00 2014-05-15T08:15:08-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 127241

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As much as I hate organized PT, It serves its purpose. Team building, instruction etc. I think it should be kept at the squad level and below. Better to train our Juniors on how to properly train etc. If you find yourself outside of that squad type enviorment then PT should be more relaxed and informal.

2014-05-15T08:32:10-04:00 2014-05-15T08:32:10-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 127287

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I find myself swaying between needing more strict PT rules and standards for discipline and readiness and having PT standards being MOS specific... Some soldiers are just not "Soldeirs" but they still have a function in the organization. I tend to lean more for the strict because, let us just remember please...This is the Army! And if you cant take care of yourself, HOW do you expect me to believe you can take care of troops? I believe that this first leadership priniciple will always win the debate. But if we ever do make PT job specific then you better be ready to lose rank and leadership opportunities and I would also argue, benefits. Tax payers should not have to be responisible for poor health conditions of gov't workers when the work enviornment offers the opposite. Just a few toughts...

2014-05-15T09:33:27-04:00 2014-05-15T09:33:27-04:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 127324

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;m responding as both a soldier and a High School teacher:<br /><br />I would love to get rid of organized PT, as I too prefer the gym on my own, BUT the students, aka future soldiers, first need to be taught how, and then need to be taught how to teach it to the next generation.

2014-05-15T10:44:43-04:00 2014-05-15T10:44:43-04:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 127335

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>PT is an individual event...organized PT is supposed to build the team. That said I hate organized PT 75% of the time. We do organized PT on Fridays as recruiters we are fairly spread out. All winter long we played dodgeball. It was fun about twice then I lost interest. Now that the weather is nice we run every Friday. I hate it because as the sole female in my company that runs I'm trying to keep up with a bunch of jack rabbits in a formation run. I don't mind it all the time but at a certain point it kinda kills my motivation.<br />Organized PT should provide a variety of things and if you don't get enough out of it hit the gym on the way home.

2014-05-15T11:02:37-04:00 2014-05-15T11:02:37-04:00 SFC Stephen Carden 127360

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I don&#39;t like organized PT. Half of the time, some other company business has to be taken care of during PT hours anyway (urinalysis, shots, etc.). I know what my body needs in order to stay in shape, and I like targeting my workouts to address different things like body fat, weight loss, or running at different times. I see a lot of posters on this thread bringing up junior soldiers and how we should do organized PT to train them. I submit that they get plenty of PT instruction in BCT and, when they get to the &quot;real Army&quot;, they have a sound base of knowledge in the nuts and bolts of physical fitness. I say, make PT an individual responsibility and make the Soldier accountable. Technically, PT is already an individual responsibility and unit PT is designed for maintenance only, not improvement. What I mean is, put the onus for physical fitness and weight/body fat standards completely on the Soldier. The wheat will separate from the chaff, and next thing you know, we won&#39;t have a problem getting rid of 30,000 Soldiers by next year! If a Soldier has a substandard APFT score, or is overweight, then their NCO should counsel them on their deficiencies, request a detailed plan from the Soldier to correct those deficiencies, and warn the Soldier that another failure could result in his or her dismissal. If we constantly hold junior Soldiers&#39; hands on minor stuff like doing PT, how can we expect them to develop the confidence, maturity, and competence to be leaders later on? Professionals understand that fitness is part of the job and will act appropriately. Unprofessional Soldiers will blow it off and fail. Fine with me. I only want to work with professionals anyway.

2014-05-15T11:29:18-04:00 2014-05-15T11:29:18-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 127363

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree. PT should either be completely overhauled to reflect a total fitness package or be reduced to an individual event where individual Soldiers are responsible for meeting Army goals and standards.<br /><br />With all the benefits the Army provides, it might make sense to develop individual fitness plans through AKO, similar to what Daily Burn provides for civilians. Leaders can have input and approval and a single Co level MFT could be in charge of the whole thing. <br /><br />That way every Soldier has an way to achieve Army physical fitness standards regardless of their preferred work-out routines, such as CrossFit, Spin, Zumba (::Scoff::), or body building.

2014-05-15T11:34:00-04:00 2014-05-15T11:34:00-04:00 SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member 127463

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Organized PT doesn't even happen down range! I do PT 7 days a week with my battle buddy and my team leader, at the GYM. I'm honestly dreading the day we re-deploy back to the states because it'll go back to the same mediocre daily morning PT. I understand junior Soldiers must be taught the fundamentals, isn't that what BCT is for? Majority of the "real Army" doesn't even do PRT like it is done at BCT now. How can Soldiers be held to that "standard" when it's not even implemented once the Soldier leaves IET? I'm in the best shape right now that I've ever been in my life and that's no thanks to organized PT. I understand also it can be used for espirit de corps and that's fine every now and then. I'd rather be allowed the chance to use my mornings to hit the gym.

2014-05-15T14:15:50-04:00 2014-05-15T14:15:50-04:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 127551

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I hate organized PT - all it ever did was hold me back. The CPT who headed our officer's basic course said it best - "soldiers who come in "in shape", get out of shape. Soldiers who come in "out of shape", get in shape". Organized PT panders to the lowest common denominator. All organized PT ever did for me is make me wish I could have done a real work out. One caveat - I'm talking direct commission AMEDD, so our experiences are obviously different than many.

2014-05-15T16:02:59-04:00 2014-05-15T16:02:59-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 127908

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It's a difficult subject to approach because in order to get the best out of organized PT, we can't ignore the supporting events and subjects associated with it.<br />Whether it's a fire team, squad, or platoon, teamwork, camaraderie, and esprit de corps takes precedence to build effective dynamics. Not everyone is a gym rat, unfortunately, but those who are are more effective working out alone.<br />Other personalities need motivation and this is where peers come into play. Good leaders can turn soldiers into fitness enthusiasts, bad leaders can turn soldiers into fitness enthusiasts. First case a good leader will direct and motivate his or her soldiers to improve their individual levels of fitness. Second case a bad leader will display the effects of their poor leadership on personal fitness and overall self discipline which can motivate a soldier to be better than that. Either way it comes down to the individual soldier level, their personal and professional responsibility in our sworn duties is to be in shape.<br />This is considering a positive leadership role, but not everyone knows how to maintain an effective level of fitness. So it is important to pave the road as a leader, whether or not the others follow will show in the PT uniform in time.

2014-05-16T06:13:22-04:00 2014-05-16T06:13:22-04:00 GySgt Private RallyPoint Member 128179

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Nothing like running in a formation in boots and utilities singing cadence up the hills of Camp Pendleton then to the pool swimming while dragging your buddy then doing squad pushups and lunges, then having to indian run it back while passing sandbags. When I was a boot, our Corporals and Sergeants smoked us and when I was them, I did the same. Nobody complained about not benefiting from PT. The Corps loves team work not &quot;I&quot;ndividual.

2014-05-16T13:53:16-04:00 2014-05-16T13:53:16-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 128491

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree 100%

2014-05-16T22:30:32-04:00 2014-05-16T22:30:32-04:00 SSG Ed Mikus 190028

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Personally i do best with a mandatory formation and PT on my own, but everyone is different and Unit PT allows leaders to keep tabs on everyones fitness in a way that would be hard to duplicate. It also helps with unit comradery in strategic units where you do not see most of your unit during the duty day.

2014-07-30T12:44:57-04:00 2014-07-30T12:44:57-04:00 SSG Keith Evans 228424

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I do not like organized PT, not even a little bit. From the very beginning of BCT we are told PT is an individual responsibility, but then told to do PT in a very prescribed manner, at a specific time, for a specific amount of time (train to time, regardless of standard?), which may or may not be beneficial to the Soldier for a variety of reasons. If the Army is going to say it's an individual responsibility, then treat it like one. If not, then say so and at least be consistent. <br /><br />I love to work out after work, That's when my body responds best to training and I can take out the frustrations of the day on the weights and on the track. I've heard some say that organized PT builds esprit de corps. I have never known anyone to actually look forward to 90 minutes of PRT. Yes, it sucks, we're all sucking in it together but afterward no one feels any sense of team because the program is so regimented we can't really have any fun or joke around with each other or compete. Mostly I feel annoyed because I wasted 90 minutes and didn't get a good workout. <br /><br />You can build esprit de corps in other ways, such as Obstacle Courses, Spartan Races, or if you're in Colorado Springs you can have a unit hike up to Pikes Peak. There are better ways to build unit cohesion then organized PT.

2014-09-04T22:55:11-04:00 2014-09-04T22:55:11-04:00 COL Jean (John) F. B. 228791

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Really torn on this issue.<br /><br />I think there is definitely a place for organized PT in that it helps build esprit. As someone else mentioned, there is nothing more exhilarating and proud than running in formation to a Jody Call. However, to truly stay in shape, one needs to do more than just the organized PT. Therefore, I lean towards the idea of a combination; some days of organized PT and some days of individual (possibly supervised) PT. The reason I say "possibly supervised" is that, in my experience, I have seen many folks consider individual PT sessions as "personal time", not "physical training". I think the way to combat that is to have "organized PT" (i.e. calisthenics, formation run, etc.) once or twice a week and supervised gym time on other days, also allowing for time for individual runs, etc. As always, time is a factor that must be considered in scheduling such a program.<br /><br />I know that I am an old, fat retiree now and I feel like the retirees at the bar at the club who think the Army needs more PT... easy to say when you don't have to do it. But I thought I'd just put my two-cents worth into the discussion.

2014-09-05T09:34:34-04:00 2014-09-05T09:34:34-04:00 Capt Chris McVeigh 229944

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This may sound a little strange, but PT is only one part of reason we do unit PT. Unit PT would still have a valid reason even if everyone in the unit could be relied on to do their own PT. <br /><br />It can be used to build cohesion in the team. It can be used as a leadership/teaching experience. It can allow commanders to see their troops doing PT and what level they are at.<br /><br />While understand your point that you may like to do PT on your own, no one is stopping you from doing that later. Conducting unit PT serves its own purpose and will always be a useful tool.

2014-09-06T01:54:09-04:00 2014-09-06T01:54:09-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 229970

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I use to like organized pt because it built<br />Morale and I actually got something out of it. I score in the 290-300 (and I have a P2 profile) and I did PT on my own for about 3-4 years and still scored that high. <br />I feel that we are adults and should be held accountable for our weight and pt. If you can't maintain a level of fitness that the military requires of you then why are you in the military?<br />I go to PT to set a standard for Soldiers, yes I scored a 297 but as a SSG I'm putting that aside and I'm here for you, (even though in the back of my mind I don't want to be there &amp; I want to go workout on my own). So I do organized PT and my own workout. <br />So anyways, I think organized pt should be one to two times a week for morale building and go from there.

2014-09-06T04:15:16-04:00 2014-09-06T04:15:16-04:00 1SG Dustin Springer 232930

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>All really good responses but when were we able to conduct PT on our own, I havent seen it in 13years. Before we can allow Soldiers of all ranks to go off on there own to conduct physical training they need to be trained; yes basic should have taught them the basics but ask your new Soldiers to perform a proper PRT session according to FM 7-22. They properly can not. I see it cycle after cycle the so called gym rat in shape super trooper cannot give a proper PRT session or do the exercises correctly and fall out of runs.I enjoy organized PT; it allows me to push my Soldiers physically and mentally.

2014-09-08T15:21:10-04:00 2014-09-08T15:21:10-04:00 CPL Rick Stasny 328112

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You have got to be kidding me, with all due respect you as a SFC should be out in front of that formation to see that it is done correctly. I agree that the gym is a great compliment to formation PT, and when operational needs keep you from participating. To say leave it up to the individual. I say no. A soldier will take the easy way out if not properly supervised. Just imagine a Drill Sergeant marching you out of the barracks area only to turn you loose? This Army of one stuff is going too far. You joined a team, you fight as a team, and you should train as a team. This is just the way I feel.

2014-11-15T12:16:03-05:00 2014-11-15T12:16:03-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 328444

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I will give you one part-timer's perspective. <br /><br />Unless you are once of those who lives and dies at the gym, it takes a tremendous amount of self discipline to keep yourself in military shape. For a lot, the majority of effort happens around March and September (30 days before the test). I don't know what the Active Duty APFT failure rate is, but it can't be as bad as the RC rate..which I remember once being told around 40%. (I can't find anything to back that up). <br /><br />Just having the added pressure to get up at 5am and do some sort of exercise, regardless of the quality, is better then not doing it at all. The world is paved with good intentions and all that, but I expect that some will find more days where they wake up and say..."maybe I will sleep in an extra hour and hit the gym instead this evening" by the time evening rolls around, the gym concept falls behind in the pecking order of social interaction. Then it becomes "well OK, I can afford to skip once, I will work harder the next day." or "I will just call this my recovery day".<br /><br />I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I went through this for many years and my PT scores were an amazing 185ish. It was not until I started looking at my older, let-my-self go body and my future plans (got a warrant packet in play now), that I spent money on a gym and hired one of their physical trainers. My score in May was 218, my score this last October was 237, I expect to be above 240 when tested in WOCS.

2014-11-15T16:09:59-05:00 2014-11-15T16:09:59-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 328854

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Organized PT sucks. I agree that it serves a purpose. I dknt believe it&#39;s needed everyday. It hurts more than it helps. Organized pt is geared for one event. The run. Strengthening is better don&#39;t at gym. There&#39;s no way to overhaul it though. And people at the top are against changing it. They&#39;re too hyped for changing the IPFU to motivate you to do more. Lol.

2014-11-15T21:09:08-05:00 2014-11-15T21:09:08-05:00 PFC Private RallyPoint Member 438264

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I can assure you it doesn&#39;t improve unit morale.

2015-01-27T06:22:11-05:00 2015-01-27T06:22:11-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 438397

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I hear and understand where you are coming from. While I prefer the gym as well, I know as a senior it's not about me! If you feel that organized pt is a waste of time, then challenge your squad/team leaders to be more creative and challenging in their approach!!!

2015-01-27T09:04:57-05:00 2015-01-27T09:04:57-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 2708880

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes, start treating people as adults &amp; hold them accountable. If they can&#39;t maintain the standard after a few chances, kick them out. Organized PT is a waste of time in my opinion &amp; it seems to promote resentment towards leadership &amp; the organization. It&#39;s just a pain in the ass show put on so the Army. Unfortunately, it will NEVER go away because the Army is about tradition &amp; keeping its old ways.

2017-07-07T04:16:23-04:00 2017-07-07T04:16:23-04:00 SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member 5002377

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Hats off to u big sgt u couldn&#39;t have said it any better. The pt that the army thinks works is closer to hurting a soldier than helping them.

2019-09-07T21:36:03-04:00 2019-09-07T21:36:03-04:00 Sgt Troy Portis 5347207

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No done right it’s team building

2019-12-15T18:27:39-05:00 2019-12-15T18:27:39-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 5689523

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I completely agree with you but simply stated no everyone will do PT on there own. Frankly as long as they meet the Army Standard I dont care if a cook or the human resources clerk cant run a 12min 2 mile. There is the whole team building line of thought which has some merit to it. Most army PT is pretty ineffective. If we really cared about this as an organization mabey a strength and conditioning coach and a real free personal training would be avaiable at the BN level. We tried to do something like this with the Master Fitness trainer but its pretty much a failure. Just my opinion.

2020-03-22T15:21:27-04:00 2020-03-22T15:21:27-04:00 SSG Eric Mawabi 6014834

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>&quot;Never!!!&quot;

2020-06-17T08:53:23-04:00 2020-06-17T08:53:23-04:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 6030079

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Most of my career has been in the Reserves so I have not done much organized PT unless I am a an Army course. I recognize the importance of it, but my preference is to do it on my own. The few unit runs I participated in were great for morale, but not individual fitness.<br /><br />When mobilized, I had a great commanding officer. She said PT is on you, but you better not fail your APFT. If you did, you were doing organized PT daily.

2020-06-21T19:29:09-04:00 2020-06-21T19:29:09-04:00 2LT Private RallyPoint Member 8355394

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I’m going to be honest. I think PT is a joke. It gets people from point A to point A1/2, meaning that if you’re undisciplined and out of shape, it’ll get you slightly better, maybe. Furthermore, those who have discipline and workout on their own time get negative effects from it in regards to their recovery from said individual workouts. Being in shape/fit is a culturally motivated attribute that is not a result of organized PT. In other words, if you show up to your unit and everyone goes to the gym and is in decent shape, odds are you’ll eventually start going with your peers and develop that similar interest. I’ve been to units that have and do not have this culture (PT is irrelevant in both). Lastly, I’m all on board for teamwork. It’s great and it most definitely correlated with positive results. With that being said, this teamwork development should be prevalent during that duty day within platoons/shops through tastings/missions. A good example of this is a solid FTX (shared hardships).

2023-07-03T21:27:15-04:00 2023-07-03T21:27:15-04:00 2014-05-15T07:52:21-04:00