Should we get rid of PT and just focus on AR 600-9. IMO I can get a better safer workout in 20 mins.

SFC Ronald Manners — Fri, 20 May 2016 11:34:41 -0400

Response by SFC J Fullerton made May 20 at 2016 11:43 AM

SFC J Fullerton — Fri, 20 May 2016 11:43:33 -0400

In my opinion, PT is much more than just working out. There was a time when unit PT instilled cohesion, esprit de corps, and discipline. It was not much different than any other Army training- It was planned and led by NCOs. It was another opportunity for NCOs to work together with their Soldiers, get to know them, and make them better. Where did that go?

Response by SFC Matthew Mason made May 20 at 2016 12:18 PM

SFC Matthew Mason — Fri, 20 May 2016 12:18:44 -0400

I wish that PT was done to standard for performance and not for time as is practiced military wide. In the end, standards of regulations are failed due to lack of motivation to conduct 1.5 hours of soft PT instead of really driving yourselves to the max for a shorter more effective time frame.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 12:53 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 12:53:18 -0400

Do your unit team-building PT; recall SMA's challenge to all Army leaders to get out there and do PT with their soldiers. If you can get a better workout in just 20 minutes, then by all means do so as you want during lunch or after the duty day or extend the morning PT session on your own before breakfast.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made May 20 at 2016 1:53 PM

SFC Marcus Belt — Fri, 20 May 2016 13:53:00 -0400

My Battalion is the only one in my Group that does mandatory company level PT. And our morale is pretty low. Causal? Probably not. Correlative? Certainly.

Our companies and company sized elements are "force-providers" not units of action, so unit cohesion is a dodgy concept to begin with.

Just because we've always done it that way does not necessarily mean that there aren't better ways of achieving the same results or better with less "wasted motion". Doesn't necessarily mean that there's a better way either, but as our force gets smaller, budgets diminish, while the world continues to get more dangerous, pragmatism should play a role in how we prepare our formations and ourselves, going forward.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 2:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 14:21:43 -0400

I agree in certain aspects. We want to tell soldiers that they are grown men and women, but hold their hands during things like PT. if a soldier can run 2 miles in 12:00, why should I make them keep running until the slow 20:00 min soldier finishes? How does that build morale? If you can't manage to keep yourself in enough shape to meet the standards, why should the Army keep you? Why should it be another adult's responsibility to hold your hand and/or tell you you're fat?
As far as unit cohesion, how is it civilian companies have workers that are happy together? They don't do PT. The leaders treat their workers with respect. They praise them for a job well done and correct improper work.
Now, about shame being a great motivator. I agree. 100%. But, the military has decided we can't make soldiers feel bad anymore. Leaders face so much PC backlash because "feelings" that we can't treat soldiers like soldiers. We have to treat them like liberal arts college kids. So, when you yell at an overweight person for walking, it could be YOU that loses rank while THEY get your job.
I pay for a gym membership and I get a way better workout from it. Having to take even more of my time to stay in great shape when the Army already takes at least 11 hours of it is dumb and counter-productive.

Response by SGT Brian Wall made May 20 at 2016 2:42 PM

SGT Brian Wall — Fri, 20 May 2016 14:42:02 -0400

I think unit PT should still be conducted. Unit pt doesn't have to just be push-up, sit-ups and running I feel that there can be room for more of a competitive style of PT. I also feel that it is the individuals responsibility to remain in top physical shape.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 3:59 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 15:59:09 -0400

The two---physical fitness and body composition standards--really go hand in hand.....both were designed to ensure a baseline standard of health for Soldiers, and both are really misunderstood. We should have a one-standard pass/fail fitness test for all (no age brackets, no gender-norming) and separate physical requirements based on job/MOS. This would take care of many of he problems associated with current PT programs. We should really, really focus on how PT is an individual responsibility (as is codified in regulation and doctrine) and make unit leaders responsible for creating conditions in which individuals can excel. On body composition, if we are going to keep/focus on body composition, we really seriously need to start using a scientific, accurate tool to take body composition readings---the tape test is a disaster. I prefer the bod pod, which the Army already pays for at Army Wellness Centers.

Response by SFC Ronald Manners made May 20 at 2016 5:00 PM

SFC Ronald Manners — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:00:42 -0400

The APFT should still happen. Doing pt is not the same as it use to be 10-15 yrs ago. Back then it was fun. Just my two cents for the day.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made May 20 at 2016 5:06 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:06:03 -0400

"Are you going to die on me PVT Pile?!" "You remind me of 150lbs of chewed bubble gum!" "Did you're parents have any children that lived?!"

Response by SPC Brian Mason made May 20 at 2016 10:44 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Fri, 20 May 2016 22:44:53 -0400

Safer? Last I checked this was the military, not Barney's school for Gifted Children. I thought soldiers are supposed to be better, stronger, faster, and smarter so as to defend our country from all threats foreign and domestic. The current PT test is safe but little rest time in-between. A soldier with little endurance is a risk. 20 minutes is too short.

Response by CPL Bryan Claeys made May 20 at 2016 10:45 PM

CPL Bryan Claeys — Fri, 20 May 2016 22:45:25 -0400

NO. PT helps with unit Camaraderie

Response by Cpl Earl Armstrong made May 22 at 2016 5:29 PM

Cpl Earl Armstrong — Sun, 22 May 2016 17:29:38 -0400

I see quite a few SNCO's supporting this idea. My problem with doing away unit pt is this. Unit Pt is not only beneficial to the troops but it is an invaluable tool leaders should use to evaluate their troops. During pt a leader should be assessing his troops to see if their physically fit to pass a pt test. If not it is the leaders responsibility to at least counsel said soldiers and a good leader will take the unfit troops under his wing and perform extra pt to get his troops up to standard. Granted physical fitness is each individual soldier's responsibility but when soldiers fail a pt test it looks bad upon their leadership.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 5:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 May 2016 17:55:04 -0400

I can see your point, but first big Army has to decide what's going on with 600-9. I know that regulation is not correct, as far as nougat but that is all we have . I have an idea that could simplify it, if a Soldier gets a 260 or above leave them alone obviously what they are doing works. If big Army did this then they could focus the extra effort on apft.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 8:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 May 2016 20:48:24 -0400

I agree somewhat. PT should be in the hands of the team leaders. They should be able to PT their soldiers effectively and get a good workout in without being forced to fuck around for an hour and a half because everything has to be a time standard instead of actually effort put out. And if soldiers score a 270 or above they should be able to PT on their own. At least 2-3 times a week.

Response by SPC Christopher Harvey made May 23 at 2016 3:26 AM

SPC Christopher Harvey — Mon, 23 May 2016 03:26:40 -0400

If mandatory PT was taken out and that time was given to the soldiers the very second it wasnt mandatory to be at pt 0630 taskings would flood in instead of 0630 pt it would be have the company at the motorpool or lets do some pointless pocket book training as is the time is there to do PT some sham out yes but it works.