Should Women Be Allowed To Be Rangers, SEALs?

RallyPoint Team — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:57:45 -0400

From RasmussenReports.com:

Two women made history last week by being the first of their gender to graduate from the U.S. Army Ranger School, but are voters ready for women in elite combat-fighting units?

The answer is yes. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 61% of Likely U.S. Voters favor the military allowing women to participate in combat missions with special operations forces like the Army Rangers and the Navy SEALs. Twenty-seven percent (27%) oppose allowing women to participate in these high-risk missions, while 12% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Women are only slightly more accepting than men of women serving in special operation forces. But 73% of voters under the age of 40 like the idea, compared to just over half of their elders.

Among all voters, 56% continue to think that women in the military should be allowed to fight on the front lines and perform all the combat roles that men do. But while 44% still think the growing role of women in the armed services is good for the military, that’s the lowest level measured since late 2013.

The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on August 19-20, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points...

Full text here: http://rly.pt/female-ranger-SEALs

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 25 at 2015 2:11 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:11:49 -0400

It's never a question of what should be "allowed." It's always a question of specifically why something should be "disallowed."

We're the land of Freedom.

When you ask the question "Should X be allowed?" we are working backwards from the philosophy of this country. We are just starting from the wrong direction.

When you reverse the question to its correct form "What specific reason would disallow this?" it ensures Freedom is maintained. It forces People to critically think about the issue, rather than react with emotion.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 2:13 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:13:57 -0400

My opinion hasn't changed from the first time this question was posed:

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-women-be-allowed-to-try-out-for-special-forces

Women should be allowed to enter all combat jobs but only meeting the same standards, not a separate one for males or females.

Should women be allowed to try out for Special Forces? | RallyPoint

With the recent completion by two female Army Soldiers of the Ranger Course, should women be allowed to try our the SF Selection and Assessment Course?

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Aug 25 at 2015 2:32 PM

CSM Michael Poll — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:32:41 -0400

If they can pass the school, then why not?

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Aug 25 at 2015 2:33 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:33:59 -0400

My opinion like LCDR Private RallyPoint Member remains the same as well. I believe that every man and woman that wants to apply for combat positions and the various special operations groups in the various service branches should have that right and meet the standards set by the program. They are there for a reason.

Response by SrA Zack Weber made Aug 25 at 2015 2:40 PM

SrA Zack Weber — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:40:13 -0400

I think the common response is automatically that women would have lower or different standards then men, as we commonly would cite BMT as the case. However of any female I have ever met wishing to be combat role, or Special Forces have ever indicated, at least to me, that they would expect special treatment, and they trained to meet those requirements. Especially in the case for SEAL or Ranger, you are suppose to be elite, one set of standards that both genders should find as an accomplishment, if a female can equally demonstrate her ability against the same standards as a male, should there have ever been an issue?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 2:52 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:52:05 -0400

I am always frightened of "likely voters". 95% have not served and I feel this is a military issue and best decided by the non-scientific, non-random sample of ACTUALLY serving Americans 0.6% and the rightfully elected officials. Just my 2 cents.

Response by PO3 Jeff Hawkins made Aug 25 at 2015 3:10 PM

PO3 Jeff Hawkins — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:10:48 -0400

I agree and my initial reaction/vote was yes, if the standards are the same. But then I read a interesting post/article about the mixing of Genders in situations like combat and prolonged deployments and now I am rethinking that answer. I don't know what the answer is. Women shouldn't be disallowed because they are women, but I believe that maybe they should be disallowed because they aren't men.

Response by PO3 Jeff Hawkins made Aug 25 at 2015 3:11 PM

PO3 Jeff Hawkins — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:11:46 -0400

Response by PO3 Jeff Hawkins made Aug 25 at 2015 3:22 PM

PO3 Jeff Hawkins — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:22:22 -0400

I agree with many of the answers posted here and my initial reaction was yes, if the standards are the same. But then I read a interesting post/article about the mixing of Genders in situations like combat and prolonged deployments and now I am rethinking that answer. I don't know what the answer is. Women shouldn't be disallowed because they are women, but I believe that maybe they should be disallowed because they aren't men.

Response by SGT Robert Zuniga made Aug 25 at 2015 3:26 PM

SGT Robert Zuniga — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:26:14 -0400

Why not let the operators decide. I don't really feel like some reporters opinion who has no idea what special ops or military life is about should have anything to do with it. The public opinion really doesn't matter either. The majority are uneducated on the situations but feel the need to make their voice be heard sitting on their couch! I'm sure the situation will work itself out. It always seems to do so.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Aug 25 at 2015 3:49 PM

SGT Scott Bell — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:49:47 -0400

if she can do make it let her do it

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 25 at 2015 5:58 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:58:17 -0400

Yes, they should be allowed to be Rangers and SEAL's (or any other SF groups) if they want to and can qualify to do so. Period.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 25 at 2015 11:15 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:15:21 -0400

Yes, if they meet the same standards currently in the books.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 12:45 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 00:45:34 -0400

I haven't gone to Ranger school and probably never will, so if a female can go and pass, more power to her. You won't no hate coming from me. Moreover, my XO has his Tab and he said once you see a soldier with the Ranger tab, you look at that soldier as a Ranger, no one cares if you sucked in Mountain phase and barely passed by your shoe strings. You passed!!! Besides, I'm told by multiple people with their tab that it's very rare to see someone make through the 60 straight days

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 5:05 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:05:46 -0400

War is not about equality, it is about winning. Ranger School is NOT a good litmus test to see if women belong in SR/DA focused SOF units like the Rangers or SEALs. The best women physically are no match for the best man physically, if that were the case we'd have more co-ed events in the Olympics. Ranger School only has a need for someone to be above average. If women go forward to attending selection events for SOF units we will start to see the real impact of women trying to compete for slots in these units. The very few who do make it, and there will be a few who can, will suddenly find themselves in the bottom tier competing physically, not just intellectually against their peers.

Suddenly that big fish in a small pond (the women who can make it) become freshwater guppies tossed into an ocean of bull sharks. Just passing the selection course does not make one a special operator, nor does completing all the required training afterwards. Even once they do get to the unit, it will be 2-5 years before they are fully vetted members of the organization in most of these units. The standards to excel in those units sky rocket, because let's face it, these guys aren't about making the minimal standards.

These organizations are full of super Type-A personalities who are aggressive and always strive to not just beat the maximum standard, they strive to shatter the record. Of the extremely few women who make it to this point, only a small percentage of them will be truly among "the best" in a "gender neutral" environment. To get there, these units will have to literally screen thousands of women for such a meager return that the effort is just not justifiable.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 9:54 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:54:36 -0400

UGGGHHH. YES! IF they can meet the same requirements as the men. No slacking. No PT differences. ALL Work.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 11:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:40:30 -0400

They are already there, kind of. But no they shouldn't be allowed to be operators/shooters as their primary. I'd have to write a dissertation to explain why not, so i just won't bother...

Response by LTC Andrae Evans made Aug 27 at 2015 11:47 AM

LTC Andrae Evans — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:47:42 -0400

The fact is we have had women in the advance combat rolls for a long time, CIA, DEA, FBI and other agencies have used women agents in the fore of operations. why should the military be any different?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 11:01 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 23:01:34 -0400

We should not be allowed. If you can not prevent sexual assaults in a BSB how are you going to do it in an Infantry or Spec Ops unit?

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Aug 28 at 2015 1:51 AM

SPC George Rudenko — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 01:51:06 -0400

For those who didn't know women have been in jsoc forever, just not as "team","sota","beards". They are needed and necessary. Some schools I cant see facilitating women, but that doesn't diminish their role in the community. Do we need a female seal heavy weapons specialist? Or do we say GI Jane is okay enough and let individuals fall into the needed specialties?

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Aug 28 at 2015 2:46 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:46:24 -0400

Men need let go of their machismo and look at how properly trained Women Warriors within their physical abilities can accomplish what Men can not against the religious misguided women haters idiots that we face; Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS. It takes a team to win!

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Aug 28 at 2015 3:37 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:37:20 -0400

I think this is beating a dead horse!

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 6:00 PM

SN Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:00:23 -0400

I honestly couldn't cre what gender someone serving in any elite group is. however, i do believe that there should be a base standard physical fitness requirement and that it should apply fully no matter what gender someone is. it makes no sense to allow someone into an elite group and not expect them to be able to do the same things ( within reason) that the rest can do.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2015 5:36 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:36:33 -0400

NICE FORTY-FIRST REPEAT OF THE SAME TOPIC, RALLY POINT. Guess your rules don't apply to you.

Response by SGT Dylan Epp made Aug 30 at 2015 5:55 PM

SGT Dylan Epp — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:55:20 -0400

There have been women in SOF for years even in tier one units such as CAG and JREG as they fill a certain roll just as the male operators/ trigger pullers. CSTs have also been going out on missions with Regiment, SEALs and SF teams for awhile now as well. Now while certainly some women can meet the physical standard does that mean they should be in a unit whose sole purpose is to destroy whoever the target is with the upmost violence ie Ranger Regiment and SEALs. Now women certainly belong in SOF however I do not think they should be allowed in Ranger Regiment or SEAL teams. Company and team rooms are like nothing in the regular military and the culture is completely different.

Just as SSG Private RallyPoint Member pointed out Regiment as I M sure with SEALs are filled with aggressive A-type people who just don't meet the standard but strive to break the maximum and improve themselves and their team, squad, platoon and company.

Now unless you've actually spent any time in SOF you really shouldn't have an opinion or say in this matter, as you have absolutely no idea what life is like in SOF or what SOF missions are like.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Aug 30 at 2015 10:49 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 22:49:31 -0400

There are already female Rangers, and of course, some guys cannot hack it, so if some women can, then more power to them.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Aug 30 at 2015 11:57 PM

SSG James Arlington — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 23:57:55 -0400

If they can kick arse, who cares?

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Oct 15 at 2015 11:20 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:20:08 -0400

Congratulations to our own LTC Private RallyPoint Member who passed Ranger Basic as a 30 something mother - a feat many younger soldiers can't do... HUAH!!!!!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 11:31 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:31:08 -0400

I think we should create separate all female combat units, it takes care of a lot of issues.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 4:46 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Dec 2015 04:46:29 -0500

Women should be allowed to enter all combat jobs so long as they meet the standard, not two separate standards for males and females.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 5:08 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 17:08:54 -0500

Seems like this question cannot get answered! How many times are we going to ask ourselves if we are ready to have women fighting on the front lines in battle!

Response by MSG Michael McDaniel made Jul 18 at 2018 2:56 AM

MSG Michael McDaniel — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 02:56:06 -0400

I don't honestly believe that the standards would not be lowered if so

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Aug 1 at 2019 7:10 AM

MAJ Rene De La Rosa — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 07:10:09 -0400

If a woman has the capability to complete this course, then she should have the opportunity to succeed.