Should women be allowed to compete for more combat jobs? Marines feel women would lessen the Marines’ strong fighting culture. Do you agree?

2015-10-01T01:31:48-04:00

http://www.oann.com/u-s-military-chiefs-to-report-on-opening-combat-roles-to-women/

U.S. military chiefs to report on opening combat roles to women

By Yeganeh Torbati

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 1 at 2015 1:33 AM

2015-10-01T01:33:39-04:00

I tend to believe the Marines when they say that; they have more experience in their job than I do.

I think the other services are more technical - the Air Force in particular - and women can and do fill those jobs. The Marines are more physical, and men are stronger than women by nature.

It's not that the women lack the will or the skill, but they come up short on brawn.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Oct 1 at 2015 1:40 AM

2015-10-01T01:40:45-04:00

Let them compete and then we'll see what happens... But our Secretary of the Navy & Commandant are trying to come to a resolution of this issue as we debate it.. I never served with any women in the Marines but am outnumbered by women in my family so I have to be very respectful on this subject ...But down deep inside something tells me women would not be able to compete in Force Recon with other young male Marines.....with all due respect to the women I know and love..

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 1 at 2015 6:39 AM

2015-10-01T06:39:09-04:00

The title is misleading. The Marines haven't given a public statement as to why they are seeking an exemption yet. What we have is a summary of the year long integration testing that took place in 29 palms, which indicates that integrating women will likely reduce our fighting effectiveness, and is highly likely to injure the female candidates (beyond those of the male candidates).

This isn't about "culture." This is about Leadership. Mission Accomplishment, Troop Welfare.

As fighting effectiveness is potentially decreased (empirical evidence shows), and troop welfare is hugely NEGATIVELY affected, this is just bad from a Leadership perspective for the Marine Corps. Leadership is our Philosophy touchstone.

So it's not that women should be allowed to compete for more jobs. It's that "the juice isn't worth the squeeze." The USMC heard the call, answered the call, tested it to the best of their ability, and tried to develop TTP to make the plan work. The data doesn't jive. Or as Murphy says "no battleplan survives first contact."

Now, we are placed within the position of "Do we potentially hurt Marines in training, for very limited subjective gains, and negative objective gains?" Any risk management analyst would recommend no, based on the summary alone. Once we see the final reports, and the Commandant 's full recommendation, then we can make an informed decision as to whether there were any major glaring errors in logic.

Response by SGT David T. made Oct 1 at 2015 8:53 AM

2015-10-01T08:53:36-04:00

As I have said in other posts related to this topic, I feel that if they can do they job and are willing they should be allowed to do so. If they cannot there are plenty of other jobs that are better suited to their talents, but the same holds true for males.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Oct 1 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-10-01T09:33:12-04:00

Sgt Kelli Mays, top down decisions which impact the entire force rarely are well thought out. The USMC is focused on combat missions. Social experiments need to be worked through thoughtfully. There are some positions which women can fill as well as men within the USMC already. Opening up all infantry positions in the USMC to allow women to serve in all of them ifs foolish. There are expected to be some women who have the physical strength to serve as infantrymen that does not mean that they should.
Even with good intentions second and third order effects of top-down decisions are generally not considered. Two older examples Army's shift away from drinking and smoking overnight in the early 1980's; and requirement for all Army personnel stationed in the Pentagon area to wear BDOs when there was insufficient stock to support the decision.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-10-01T11:09:47-04:00

The one question that I haven't seen answered is who among the female Marines really want to be there. most of the females doing the integration testing said they aren't going for the combat jobs, they are doing this for future women. I think a very small amount of women will actually want to go for it. and those women will probably be able to hack it. Of course just like males there will be those who want to do it but don't quite cut the mustard. this is fine. the only time I would see a problem is if there is a large influx of MARINES (not just females) who try to go into combat jobs who cant cut it and in the end this is just a waste of time and resources that the Corps and the country can't waste.

If you can do the job then I will gladly welcome you to the ranks of the finest infantry of the world, I don't care if you're man, woman or lizard. but I will be damned before I let anyone skate by on substandard performance just because of political correctness.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 3:32 AM

2015-12-11T03:32:19-05:00

From what I've seen and experienced, I think they should not allow them. There were some issues as is right now, I don't want to think of those issues carrying over in a combat arms unit, in the Marine Corps at least (heck, even Army combat arms as well)...

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Jul 26 at 2018 11:17 AM

2018-07-26T11:17:00-04:00

I have no issue with females using all of the resources it requires to get trained and approved as Combat Arms job duties...so long as they do not waste those recources by not actually joining related unit types and actually go perform those duties.

But how many who graduated any such training have done so?