Should you be paid by your position instead of your rank?

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 29 Oct 2013 01:28:53 -0400

How many E6's work in E7 slots etc?  Where is that E7 at?  Why am I being paid 6 salary for 7 and sometimes 8 work?  If you worked at Walmart would you take cashier pay for a management position?  Probably not.  Probably a law suite.

Response by SFC Josh Watson made Oct 29 at 2013 10:03 AM

SFC Josh Watson — Tue, 29 Oct 2013 10:03:26 -0400

It would be nice if it worked that way. I have been assigned
as a Platoon Sergeant as a Staff Sergeant, a HHC 1SG as a Sergeant First Class
and an Operations Sergeant Major as a Sergeant First class. I take pride in the
fact that my leadership trusted me enough to fill these positions. It speaks volumes of a Soldier's Competence, performance and potential. The trust from my
previous and present Leaders is priceless to me. The Army is a self correcting
machine and when a position opens up, it will be filled by the best qualified
Soldier, regardless of rank, until that position is filled by a Soldier with
the appropriate rank.  Think of it as
Leader development and do the best you can to get the most out of it.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2013 9:05 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:05:56 -0400

Fortunately your branch doesn't "frock" like the Navy does with its promotion of enlisted sailors.  If you aren't familiar with "frocking," when enlisted sailors advance to the next pay grade they are authorized to wear the next higher rank, however, they do not receive the pay associated with that promotion for a period of six months while they work at the higher pay grade.  

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2013 9:36 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:36:40 -0400

I'm on the fence about this subject. The British Army and Royal Navy do Frock their officers/NCOs and pay them for the time they serve in the position. I worked with a Royal Navy Commander (O-5 on our pay scale) who was really a junior Lt. Commander (new O-4). The issue was, he was getting paid like an O-5 but didn't bring the experience. He did learn and the expectation from the General was that he possessed the maturity and abilities of a Senior Officer, but he didn't. I have also seen this in the Reserve, Unit Vacancy Promotions. In the active component we have Below the Zone selection for the Top 5% but those slots are far and few in-between. These Reserve vacancy promotions can promote you 1-2 years early (even if your not the best). I guess I would look at your situation SSG Burns and appreciate that you are standing out among your peers. I hope you are ensuring that your ERB and NCOERs have the right Duty MOS (4O/5O slots). On the officer side we have no such designator. My last job I was in an Joint/Coalition O-4 slot, but I couldn't reflect that anywhere on my ORB or OER....

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Oct 29 at 2013 11:44 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 29 Oct 2013 23:44:03 -0400

I would at least appreciate the frocking. Let me at least wear the rank you supposedly "trust" me with so that I can fight bigger fights with more authority. I can't tell you how many times I've got into it with another platoon sgt who happens to be an actual E7 and I end up losing the fight simply because Im an E6. Even though we are peers by position. If you aren't going to pay me, at least give me the rank. That costs nothing but allows me to do my job more effectively.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Oct 30 at 2013 12:01 AM

SGM Matthew Quick — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 00:01:20 -0400

You may want to talk in terms or 'rank' (SFC/1SG) and not necessarily 'pay grades' (E7/E8).

Response by SSG Mark Jordan made Oct 30 at 2013 12:58 AM

SSG Mark Jordan — Wed, 30 Oct 2013 00:58:28 -0400

Well I have always worked in a higher position then my rank. When I was a E-3 I was a team leader, my squad leader was court marshaled for theft. I as an E-3 stepped into the role as squad leader. In the years that followed I never made E-7 but served as PSG four times often when I was motor SGT or something. If your a good performer your unit is going to rely on in when they are short. It shows your chain of command has full trust in your ability. However you may not be getting paid but if you are in a higher position it should reflect on your NCOER. For example is rating you as PSG helps

you then what your MTOE for the unit. Then you should be rated on the job you do with the higher position. Also if it is reflected on your NCOE'R right when your records

are looked at for the E-7 board the board will see you were in higher than your rank positions. I hope this helps

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Nov 1 at 2013 7:17 PM

Cpl Ray Fernandez — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 19:17:09 -0400

The civilian world is much different from the military world. Sure you would get paid for the position you're in outside of the military, however with as much trouble as the pay systems have to simply pay a service member correctly, I'm afraid to think of how many problems there would be by changing pay based on positions. I know the feeling of doing the work of those much more senior to you, I used to be in charge of Communications maintenance for our field operations in battalion level training exercises as an E-3 Lance Corporal , which in our unit was an E-7 billet. I took it as a learning opportunity, I was also grateful to be away from my shop and my maintenance officer and maintenance chief who both only went to the field once a year, and it showed with the problems that needed to be fixed when they were out and about. Take pride in the great work you do, and when your time comes to wear the rank, you'll be much better suited to do the job than those who only do the work of their current pay grade or lower.

Response by Cpl Charles Fischer made Nov 4 at 2013 7:57 AM

Cpl Charles Fischer — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 07:57:25 -0500

I would have to say as a Reconnaissance Marine and heavily trained, that Position and Training should play a roll in pay. Not to mention the frequency and types of missions we are subjected too. The level of hazard does pay a micro portion more than if not jump or dive qualifications but I do not feel that it covers the danger of life threatening situations we are put in.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 4 at 2013 9:17 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:17:30 -0500

I maintain that your rank should be based off of your position. If you hold a SSG position, you should be a SSG. If you are holding a 5 slot down though, why should I pay you SSG pay for doing what a 5 by rights should be doing?

This is why I think we need to bring back the Specialist ranks. Eeryone should be a SPC 4-9 unless specifically holding an NCO position, and those individuals should be frocked with the stripes. When you leave that NCO billet, you revert back to a SPEC rank appropriate for your paygrade.

This way we can eliminate the "50 chiefs, 7 indians" issue we run into a lot.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2013 9:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:40:22 -0500

I can't justify to myself a reason to be frocked to SFC just because I fill a PSG MTOE slot. Were I not promotable, DA can, at any time, send the unit a SFC or promotable SSG. As far as the wearing of the rank to use its weight to "fight" for what your PLT needs, I don't see that as necessary either. Units should recognize that you hold the position regardless of rank. But its not all the unit's responsibility either. Its up to the individual leader to present themselves in a manner that reflects the position they hold. If these two things happen, there is no issue other than not getting paid as much as your peers. What leaders need to ask themselves is why have I not been promoted to the level of my position? If its a TIG/TIS issue, then why should the Army pay me more when I haven't met basic TIG/TIS requirements? If said leader has met TIS/TIG, then they need to ask themselves what can I do to reach the level the Army needs for this Rank? I would welcome any higher position as an honor that my unit has faith in my abilities to perform to that degree and that if I excel in that position, it will reflect appropriately. Just a Sappers opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2013 9:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:46:30 -0500

If we did that, we'd be wasting even more money than we already are. We all know (at least in the Army) that we need to fill in and do what needs to be done irregardless of paygrade and/or position. Me personally, Im an E-5 operating in an E-6 slot in a brigade headquarters and I dont expect to receive any more pay than what I am entitled b/c I know Im gaining experience for later on. If you want to be paid for the position, then exceed the standards and put forth maximum effort, then when it comes NCOER/OER time, it will reflect and improve competiveness in the promotion arena. Honestly, in my 10 years of being in uniform, I very rarely heard any rumblings or complaints about pay based off of position held. The only one I can remotley come close in comparison are the Corporals, who perform in the capacity of a NCO but receive E-4 pay.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2014 4:09 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Mar 2014 04:09:48 -0400

My brother was an E-7 Army Medic and that issue he discussed when he had to fill a higher job position. As a Meteorologist in the Air Force I was asked and sponsored to go to AECP. (Airman Enlisted Commissioning Program).

Most often I would look for extra things to do.

Response by SSG David Hollingshead made Jun 19 at 2014 2:13 PM

SSG David Hollingshead — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 14:13:24 -0400

I wish i would be owed 6 years of back pay :)