Should you have to Serve inorder to "EARN" your Rights of Citizenship?

2014-06-15T21:06:31-04:00

After all these years of being in Service and going different places, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of Americans are arrogant, ignorant, and materialistic, and take their Liberties for granted. I think as a whole America has lost its pride. They don't even recite the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem in school. When you watch a sports game here in the US and they play the Star Spangled Banner, people sit, keep their hats on, don't t know the words. Go to a sports arena in another country, the entire stadium stands and sings. I feel if people had to Serve in order to earn their rights of Citizenship, there would be more Pride and Cohesion, and Respect, and people would not take things for granted. Countries such as Israel require it, and those born here in the US still return to their "Motherland" to serve minimum 2 yrs. Why not us?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2014 9:24 PM

2014-06-15T21:24:15-04:00

Robert Heinlein (author of Starship Trooper) firmly believed that anyone who wanted the right to vote should first complete military service. Those who chose NOT to complete military service could continue in their everyday lives but had no right to vote or make decisions on how things were done in a democracy/republic. I've never argued with that suggestion - always said it would get rid of the BS we go through with a civilian government......

But, it's a idle dream.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2014 11:18 AM

2014-06-16T11:18:49-04:00

I have met service members that are also " arrogant, ignorant, and materialistic, and take their Liberties for granted". Serving in the military as a "mandatory check the block" will only make the military a horrible place and will not make the average public any better.

Response by MSgt Lancia Stewart made Jun 16 at 2014 11:29 AM

2014-06-16T11:29:17-04:00

I would never make it mandatory unless someone is seeking federal office (judges included). Nothing in the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights demands military service for citizenship. What if I was born deaf? Sorry, you can't be a citizen. What if I'm a
Pacifist? Sorry, you can't be a citizen.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Jun 16 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-06-16T11:40:53-04:00

I have always loved the idea of having to earn your citizenship, but doing so in ways other than the military as well.

Park ranger, social worker, military, police, etc. Allow people to use their in particular skills and abilities to serve this nation and its people to earn their right to vote. This will hopefully bring about more pride and get rid of some of the entitlement programs that are bleeding us dry.

Be nice if citizens didn't have to pay taxes as well...

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2014 1:35 PM

2014-06-16T13:35:50-04:00

I think this is a great topic and something I think often about. I also believe there is something for everyone. If not the military perhaps peace corps or conservation corps, something that gives before taking. Earn the right to receive the blessings this country has the ability to bestow and not demand what you have not contributed to.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Jun 16 at 2014 3:12 PM

2014-06-16T15:12:42-04:00

I have historically been adamantly against this idea. The older I get, and the more I see of the absolute disconnect between actions (which votes are - delegation of force plain and simple) and consequences in people's minds.

I don't think restricting the franchise would lead to smarter or more informed voters. Heinlein covered that very well. However, as he pointed out, you would know that - at least once, for a while - the voter understood that they had skin in the game.

It might not make things better, but I'm hard-pressed to see how it would make things worse.

Note: Yes, I can come up with a theoretical list. Slots in the military reserved for the rich, "disenfranchising the common man." Pressure for a revolving door of 6-12 month "enlistments", with lowered standards, etc. They just don't resonate with me today. Especially not if service were defined in some way other than just military.

But the Merchant Marine can't count. Heinlein was very clear on that score. ;-)

Response by SSG Jason Cherry made Nov 1 at 2014 3:36 PM

2014-11-01T15:36:40-04:00

I don't think military service but certainly some sort of public servant job for a length of time determined by the path chosen.

Some people are not fit for military service, physically and/or mentally, but would be fine to do other things.

Think about if we had some sort of citizenship-earning employs such as follows

Military
Police
Fire
EMT
DPW

Obviously the folks with medical issues would have some kind of exemption from these services. I think it would give a sense of duty and appreciation for the work that the people who really support our infrastructure and communities do, and give the future citizen pride in their service and country. Maybe we would have more people with more consideration and respect for the things most people take for granted.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 9:23 PM

2014-11-02T21:23:42-05:00

Starship Troopers was on the Commandants reading list while in the Marines. Some form of public service whether military or civil service should equal citizenship. The term citizen is defined as: one owing allegiance to a state in which sovereign power is retained by the people and sharing in the political rights of those people. After reading that I think I would like to be a citizen by definition.

Response by Cadet 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 10:35 PM

2014-11-03T22:35:47-05:00

Well, with compulsory military service, there loses a bit of freedom, and that's the fiber of the majority of both our problems and virtues. Israel has to sacrifice that liberty of volunteer military because they're quite frankly, puny and surrounded, outnumbered and hemmed in. Not to tear them down though. They can really fight! However, if they were ever in any sustained conflict, they would fall apart, as their entire population would be mobilized to war immediately. Also, they have a history of being bullied. (Egypt, rome, crusades, pogroms, Spanish inquisition, WW2, ..now[though some can argue that Israel is the bully now and a form of colonism])

With America, we have the freedom to choose. It has it's ups and downs. Ups being we can be in sustained conflict both economically and politically (detachment from foreign policy and all that). However, it also means that our citizens have no connection to their service members and as a result are not familiar with the potential sacrifices and as a result are on an individual basis capable of expressing their ignorance.

As much as I would like compulsory military service, it is not for America, and not a feasible thing socially or economically. I mean, 350 million people being pushed thru the country's forts? Ft. Knox can hardly handle 5,500 cadets for a month, let alone the nation in increments for at minimum of ten weeks, just for a taste of military service at least. Just not feasible. Social security is bad? just imagine THAT bill. Soldiers are expensive, really. not to mean the social implications: militant society, oriented to the profession of arms, and with our technology? I see another Reich coming if we do that (if we had the money)

Also, I guarantee you those people who sit, keep their hats on and don't know the words are spurned by the rest of the civilian population for their blind contrariety. They just want to be different and don't know what to be different about because they don't know a thing (national anthem as an example).

My opinion: let them be ignorant. One day they'll notice how important it is for them to not be involved, and give thanks.

Response by PO1 Dan Duncan made Nov 23 at 2014 2:41 PM

2014-11-23T14:41:38-05:00

I think that you have some valid points here and I definitely like the idea of service for citizenship, however, if we begin compulsory enlistments, we may have units surrendering to the enemy without much of a fight (i e Iraqis fighters). Perhaps it would be prudent to offer citizenship in return for honorable voluntary service.

Response by PO2 Robert Lee made Dec 18 at 2014 4:04 PM

2014-12-18T16:04:23-05:00

Countries that require everyone to serve in military or government service actually have less civil problems than we do.

Taking on the movie "Starship Trooper" Military service means Citizenship would be a wonderful dream. I would like to see it happen.

Response by PO2 Robert Lee made Feb 24 at 2015 1:43 AM

2015-02-24T01:43:49-05:00

This is the United States of America, but with the new kids going to school they are not getting the real history anymore. Because of this, may of them want to give up their freedoms for socialism or even to be ruled by a oppressive religion.

Because of this I have come to believe that to become a Citizen and have all the rights and freedoms, everyone, especially immigrants, need to serve in the armed forces or provide specific services for the government if you are unable to serve. This means that If you want to own property, vote, have a job that makes more than $12.00 per hour.

This means that If you want freedoms under the constitution, then you must prove that you deserve to have the freedoms that are afforded citizens.

If you are a refugee or immigrant then you must PROVE that you are patriotic enough to be a citizen and have an extreme desire to learn the language, merge into society, and adhere to the rules and life in this country.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Feb 24 at 2015 3:44 AM

2015-02-24T03:44:28-05:00

Everybody should give back to the community in some way, whether it be through social/volunteer work, military service, or something else. However, I don't believe citizenship should be contingent on these things, and especially not the right to vote which is guaranteed by the constitution (as indicated by its amendments).

Yes there are a lot of Americans with poor attitudes. However, I don't think nationalism is the answer, and I don't think anybody should be forced to risk their lives against their will by serving in the military. Forcing someone to do something to be a citizen is the exact opposite of the ideal of freedom.

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Apr 16 at 2015 10:02 AM

2015-04-16T10:02:28-04:00

I agree I think if you. want to join our country you should most definitely sign up mandatory 4 yrs of service then you can get your citizens ship