https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Social Media, especially Facebook are highlighting US Army NCOs sporting full beards. It is time to allow all soldiers to have a beard or no one to have a beard. This is being used as a DEI issue. It is not. It is an issue of having one standard. I am not questioning leader effectiveness, I am not questioning patriotism, I am not questioning devotion to duty. I am stating that to allow a beard based on religion is a violation of the First Amendment and the 14th Amendment. <br />A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.<br />Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone. Fri, 17 May 2024 17:43:18 -0400 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Social Media, especially Facebook are highlighting US Army NCOs sporting full beards. It is time to allow all soldiers to have a beard or no one to have a beard. This is being used as a DEI issue. It is not. It is an issue of having one standard. I am not questioning leader effectiveness, I am not questioning patriotism, I am not questioning devotion to duty. I am stating that to allow a beard based on religion is a violation of the First Amendment and the 14th Amendment. <br />A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.<br />Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone. SSG Roger Ayscue Fri, 17 May 2024 17:43:18 -0400 2024-05-17T17:43:18-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8757510&urlhash=8757510 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wow! PO1 George Noble Fri, 17 May 2024 21:39:08 -0400 2024-05-17T21:39:08-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8757591&urlhash=8757591 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have always believed in &quot;one standard for all&quot;. I spent 22yrs, 4m, 18d (but who&#39;s counting) with no beard, it was the standard. All these who cry &quot;religious&quot;, they knew the standard before they enlisted (there is no draft), so with that said: Come on Army &quot;Sh!t or get off the pot&quot;. Either authorize a well groomed beard for everyone or none at all. Lots of other armies in the world allow them (I am not promoting beards) and do just fine. Like the argument stated above, make a proper decision. D.E.I. is crap. SGM Mikel Dawson Sat, 18 May 2024 00:28:36 -0400 2024-05-18T00:28:36-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8757615&urlhash=8757615 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There was a Reserve Drill Sergeant, SFC type, in my Senior Leader Course in 2019 who said that &quot;If there is an exception to policy, then why have a policy.&quot; Nations across the world allow beards. The US once allowed beards. To tell someone they can have a beard for religious and/or medical reasons is fine but in the same breath say they can&#39;t have a leadership role because of the beard. It makes no sense. MSG Private RallyPoint Member Sat, 18 May 2024 02:47:58 -0400 2024-05-18T02:47:58-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8757810&urlhash=8757810 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree 98%. That 2% lies in medical exemptions. We have folks with shaving profiles and they exist for a reason. (And yes, there is some controversy around that, as well, but that is a whole &#39;nother debate.)<br /><br />If the standard is &quot;some religions have to shave, some do not,&quot; then it is a violation of the 1st amendment. It is very cut and dry. It becomes even MORE problematic when you get folks like me. I am a Christian of my own denomination. I am not non-denominational (like the military likes to label me), I am in a denomination of one. My denomination STILL has rules, still has dogma. But because I am a denomination of one, what *my* denomination says about ANYTHING is irrelevant - they got to choose someone to speak for me. As such, my religious beliefs and rights could be trampled at will.<br /><br />To be clear, I was OK with that. Well, I don&#39;t want to say &quot;OK with that,&quot; per se, but I understood and accepted that as part of my military service. Just like my freedom of speech was necessarily curtailed - not eliminated, but curtailed - so, too, was my freedom of religion.<br /><br />But the current standard of &quot;some religions are freer than others&quot; is no standard at all. SFC Casey O'Mally Sat, 18 May 2024 09:02:21 -0400 2024-05-18T09:02:21-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8757884&urlhash=8757884 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There were several times I had a beard due to operational necessity (Antarctica and Sandbox) to do my job. The notion of &quot;uniform&quot; from the Latin &quot;uniformus&quot; roughly means having one only. To keep things the most simple with the least overhead, edicts like this only, no beards, etc. are fairly clear. Absence of clarity leaves room for creativity that has to be dealt with because you always have that part of the bell curve. If you allow a thing, you&#39;re stuck managing a thing. Same goes for allowing RE-3s back in, figuring out Fruit Salad and Patch Mania; the list goes on. CAPT Kevin B. Sat, 18 May 2024 10:59:53 -0400 2024-05-18T10:59:53-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8758043&urlhash=8758043 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Personally I don’t see a problem of having a well groomed beard if that is your preference. I believe the DOD should standardize it one way or the other. It is after all an all voluntary force and you know the regulations coming in. MSgt Private RallyPoint Member Sat, 18 May 2024 16:22:12 -0400 2024-05-18T16:22:12-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8758222&urlhash=8758222 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No. SGT Private RallyPoint Member Sat, 18 May 2024 21:05:41 -0400 2024-05-18T21:05:41-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8761049&urlhash=8761049 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The answer is no, in the past military allowed members to grow beards. But once the gas mask came out that all changed. Members with beards are not able to get a good seal like a person who has no beard. If you can&#39;t get a good seal on your gas mask because of your beard then the gas mask is useless. It needs to be straight across the board about no beards. I&#39;ve seen where some member intentionally irritate their skin so bad, like dry shaving on the neck area, will irritate the skin so they can go to medical to try to get a no shave chit (profile in your case). Religion should not come into a decision making tool for growing a beard, once that is approved, then your blasting the door open for every other reason for them to do something and blame it on religion or culture and so on. This person&#39;s culture wears earrings so are you gonna allow because you allowed beard for religion, how can you dispute the earrings, or nose rings,,etc. I&#39;m sure you get my point. For it to be fair it needs to be straight across the board for everyone, and the things to follow after you allow beards. The Military is starting to get soft in many ways, they volunteered to join the military, so they need to follow the rule of the Military. The Military is not an adult babysitting job, because of the member is to immature to grow up and do his job in defend our wonder and great nation. I hope the Military is not gonna start changing because of immature member throwing a tantrum and getting other member to follow to change the rule of the Military. Doc Gumm out PO2 Erich Gumm Wed, 22 May 2024 03:01:40 -0400 2024-05-22T03:01:40-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8762609&urlhash=8762609 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>For years (30) I was told the beard issue revolved around the ability to maintain a mask seal. CSM Richard StCyr Thu, 23 May 2024 16:25:50 -0400 2024-05-23T16:25:50-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8763538&urlhash=8763538 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Into the late 19th Century, it was not unusual for military personnel to have facial hair and many had beards. I&#39;m guessing the use of chemical weapons in WWI and the necessity to wear a gas mask started the demise of the beard. General and President Grant had a beard. Teddy Roosevelt had a mustache that exceeded current limits as did GEN Pershing. By WWII, none of the senior officers wore beards--at least not in their official photos. So we have to ask, does it matter? Well, yes, but only because it&#39;s a Service standard. If the standard is clean shaven, then it should be applied to all service members. It was largely so in the mid-20th Century, then exceptions began to come in. People with certain skin problems were granted waivers. Then waivers became easier to get. I think it would be good to change the standard. Arrive at a common agreement among the Services on what an allowable beard can look like and enforce the standard. There would be an outbreak of beards for a few years. In the end the Service Members with the time and inclination to grow a nice beard will keep them. Everybody else will shave clean and move on. Lt Col Jim Coe Fri, 24 May 2024 16:29:10 -0400 2024-05-24T16:29:10-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8763939&urlhash=8763939 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Now that I&#39;m out, I sport a nice, well trimmed beard. But if I ever put my uniform on, the beard will come off. It&#39;s not a matter of fashion. It&#39;s a matter of respect for the service, its regulations, and the soldiers who are required to comply with them.<br />My understanding of the regulations pertaining to beards is that the ban on them came about during WWI. It was discovered that a beard could seriously interfere with the operation of a gas mask. So, while sailors were allowed to wear a beard (this was still allowed when my brother served in the navy in 1972-1984) soldiers and marines were forbidden to grow one. <br />Inasmuch as modern gas masks are as prone to this interference as the ones in WWI, it seems to me that operational readiness, in addition to uniformity of appearance would demand our chins, cheeks, and throats be clean shaven. SSG Dale London Fri, 24 May 2024 23:05:53 -0400 2024-05-24T23:05:53-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8764519&urlhash=8764519 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>With the possibility of still having to wear pro-masks for chemical warfare, I doubt they will. I guess the Navy can sometimes wear beards when at sea or on a sub when there is almost no chance of a chemical attack happening, as long as the ship is moving and the sub is under water. CPT David Tanner Sat, 25 May 2024 16:32:28 -0400 2024-05-25T16:32:28-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8767969&urlhash=8767969 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The original reason for being shaved, was so your &quot;gas mask&#39; fit properly and did not let contaminated air in for you to breath. SGT Krisandra Daniels Wed, 29 May 2024 03:41:11 -0400 2024-05-29T03:41:11-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8774653&urlhash=8774653 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree wholeheartedly. It should be one standard, and that standard should be that beards are authorized. Until that becomes a reality, I am &quot;okay&quot; with religious exemptions that allow them.<br /><br />&#39;Cuz I&#39;m not a hater like that. SSG Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 04 Jun 2024 14:54:48 -0400 2024-06-04T14:54:48-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8796981&urlhash=8796981 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No question. The standard should be adhered to until changed. Lack of enforcement is a direct reflection of our leadership and the organization. SPC Elaine Manaoat N. Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:03:19 -0400 2024-06-27T01:03:19-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8797214&urlhash=8797214 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I spent ove 9 years and 35 federal all with the USAF<br />I believe that when you enlist or ? you agree to the UCMJ at the time of entering into active duty. <br />Your facial hair should be clean shaven and only medical reasons should be considered. <br />Its a disipline thing. The same as a uniform. STANDARDS are there to maintain disipline. TSgt Richard Colbert Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:21:16 -0400 2024-06-27T09:21:16-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8798377&urlhash=8798377 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Beards should be allowed as an option, especially since some individuals are allowed to grow them. A beard is one thing that defines a man. Soldiers are generally men. Use logic, guys. I agree with SSG Roger Ayscue&#39;s argument. HN Sheridan Claude Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:47:10 -0400 2024-06-28T14:47:10-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8798386&urlhash=8798386 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree with SSG Roger Ayscue&#39;s comment. Men should be allowed to grow beards, especially since some are allowed to according to religion. A beard is one of the things that can define a man. Soldiers are generally men. Use logic. If it isn&#39;t so long that it gets in the way of quick gearing up, then it should be allowed. HN Sheridan Claude Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:51:46 -0400 2024-06-28T14:51:46-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8817675&urlhash=8817675 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>NO..it is called UNI form for a reason...All the same! Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth Thu, 18 Jul 2024 09:54:07 -0400 2024-07-18T09:54:07-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8834856&urlhash=8834856 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Two w2ords: gas mask. 1SG James Kelly Mon, 05 Aug 2024 12:14:51 -0400 2024-08-05T12:14:51-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8859776&urlhash=8859776 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Absolutely not, as afore mentioned by some, its called unform for reason. Hygiene is a major reason, uniformity being yet another. There use to be some units or assignments which allow beards but they are few and far between. The reqirement still is a well maintained appearance. Once the assignment is completed, it is back to the standard appearance required by regulation. Back when I served I had to always have a razor with me and shaved twice a day to stay in regs. Stick with the program and stop wining of this little requirement, next you&#39;ll be crying that the mess hall doesn&#39;t serve beer with your evening meal or you want pink socks. SSG Donald Kuhns Mon, 02 Sep 2024 14:05:33 -0400 2024-09-02T14:05:33-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8869867&urlhash=8869867 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I see it every morning coming through the gate. Grizzly Adams is checking ID&#39;s standing next to Super Mario with the 70&#39;s porn star style mustache. IMHO, it just does not look professional. It looks like you&#39;re entering a college campus, not a military base. I understand the military has changed from a follow the rules force to a &quot;let&#39;s make everyone happy&quot; fraternity but what happened to rules and regulations? I know I&#39;ll get a lot of flak from everyone that feels growing a beard is very important and should be allowed, because, you know, the military should be more lenient and accommodating to everyone. But I feel the military needs to get back to it&#39;s basics. MSgt Grant Davison Mon, 16 Sep 2024 07:43:50 -0400 2024-09-16T07:43:50-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8870529&urlhash=8870529 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Would have loved if they allowed it when I was in, but the argument (which IS valid) is that you can&#39;t get a tight seal with a gas mask if you have a beard. Had no choice but to respect that and knew shaving was a requirement when I entered the service. Waited 21.5 years to grow a beard and do NOT miss shaving every day... Capt Jeff S. Mon, 16 Sep 2024 21:59:51 -0400 2024-09-16T21:59:51-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/since-beards-are-becoming-more-prevalent-it-is-time-for-the-army-to-authorize-beards-across-the-force?n=8874663&urlhash=8874663 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Let me see your pass PFC Tony Tellez Mon, 23 Sep 2024 13:29:30 -0400 2024-09-23T13:29:30-04:00 2024-05-17T17:43:18-04:00