Since when does enforcing standards equal being mean?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:32:21 -0400

So, I am the first sergeant of the HHC at 13th CSSB. I have been told by several senior NCOs across the battalion that their Soldiers think that I am mean because of a correction that I have made toward them. The most come from when I sit on the Soldier of the month/quarter boards. I ask simple questions using the correct verbiage from regulation and never pull my questions from Army study guide. Com I always pull from the regulations.... I don't think that I am a mean person or leader nor does anyone that works with me our for me. It just blows my mind that this new generation of Soldiers is so needy, whiney, and just plane lazy. So, what do you all think? Do any of you find yourselves just as bewildered? And how do you handle the situations? For me... I'm going top keep on defending.... Til the end.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 10:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:47:44 -0400

It Doesn't! Keep Doing what your doing! Talk to those personnel who have the concern and reflect on why it is you the 1SG having to make the correction. There should be other Senior and Junior NCOs, making sure that 1SG doesn't have to do their jobs.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 10:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:54:33 -0400

I feel like I hear that a lot when there's females in leadership positions. You always hear how the female DS's are b*tches and any time there's a female with rank she's on a "high horse." I've heard it from my joes too. Since I'm only a SGT I understand I'm closer in rank to these guys and I'm the one they report to, so I build the trust, and gain respect, but as soon as one of them crosses that line and I correct it I hear how I was being rude or whatever. Even though females in the military isn't that uncommon anymore, we're still the minority and I feel as though when we're in any leadership position it makes some uncomfortable. Best of luck 1SG!

Response by SSG Toryn Green made Sep 3 at 2015 11:59 PM

SSG Toryn Green — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 23:59:18 -0400

Enforcing the standards is exactly that. It's not being mean, at all as long as it's done in a professional manner (right place/right time). The standards exist for a reason. This being "mean" is what today's army needs more of. I have noticed as time goes by, the standards tend to get left more and more to the wayside. Things are getting too lax. Keep doing what you're doing!

Response by COL Charles Williams made Sep 4 at 2015 12:01 AM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:01:36 -0400

Never.... mean is not a leader attribute. Nothing should be personal. It is all about enforcing THE standard.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 4 at 2015 12:51 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:51:22 -0400

The big missing piece of this story is what did the senior NCOs say when you asked "so what do you think?" When a buck is passed, it usually means they didn't intercept the pass, and in worse case are being passive-aggressive and agree by proxy. I fired an Ops O partly for doing that crap. If they thought your were straight up, then they'd climb down their throats and you might or might not hear about it later. So the Magic 8 Ball says "maybe". Recommend you tease the issue out a bit more for clarity.

I heard most responses go along the line that if you're asking a legit question, no problem. Dig deeper and see if there are any negative style points surrounding their experience with you. You just want to make sure you're not fostering a generalized negative perception. Even if it's not your fault, you still own it. So if the head case belongs down line, then it would be proper to work with their NCOs to deal with it. That's baggage that doesn't belong in the badlands.

Oh, and if you don't know two positive things about a soldier you're correcting, think about that as a strategy to change perceptions. Good luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2015 12:55 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 00:55:19 -0400

I think this is something that happens when you have Soldiers that no one has corrected in a while. It's like when you get that new CSM who starts calling people out and making on the spot corrections. Suddenly people think the CSM is too strict. I think the easiest way to deal with it is to be consistent.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2015 1:29 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 01:29:14 -0400

Sometimes, and this comes from personal experience, its not what you say, but how you say it.

I've been told virtually the same thing, along with being or sounding condescending when that wasn't my intention at all. Sometimes people take confidence the wrong way as being arrogant, cocky or talking down.

I've had to stop myself at times, especially when I'm exasperated and figure out how I want to come across to those I'm speaking with, very hard to do in the heat of the moment, but something I feel I need to do if I'm going to continue as a leader in the military.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2015 2:15 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 02:15:57 -0400

i know many good leaders that seem "mean" at first but once you get to know them they can be very supportive and inspiring. They simply want to get the best performance and development out of their subordinates and make sure they are working up to and even beyond standard. Its 3-dimensional not linear. Its not about being "too mean to too nice" on a line. There are other axes as well, such a knowledge, caring about the soldier, the unit and the mission, and other leadership traits. I have, however, also seem some "mean" people who are indeed in for their own ego; those people are not following good leadership principles. If you are doing all the things that all good leaders do such as getting to know your soldiers, mentoring, counseling, helping with problems as well as enforcing the standards then you are doing the right thing. Also leaders have different personal styles--some seem more heavy-handed than others, but if they are following basic leadership principles, the different personal styles can all work. Hope this is helpful.. Of course, the First Sergeant is always the standard bearer! Good luck to you, First Sergeant.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 4 at 2015 8:55 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 08:55:19 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I don't want this to come off as (me being) sexist, as this is not my intent. But it may be something as simple as a "gender perceptions" issue.

Two identical things said exactly the same way by a male and a female will come across in different ways.

It's not that you are being mean. I doubt that you are. It's that the "lens you are being viewed through" is altered slightly, and what would normally be considered "blunt" is shifted to "mean" because of an added layer of context. Again, it is not that you are doing anything different, it is that you are perceived differently (subconsciously).

As for how you handle it. Being aware that others perception of you is "slightly off" of your perception of yourself.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Sep 4 at 2015 9:21 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:21:33 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member - I think it would be even worse if you did not enforce the standards. I do not think the root cause of this just lays on the "new generation of troops". The problem goes beyond that to the NCO Corps as a whole because a few people want the strips without any of the responsibility. Some are more concerned about their image than actually carrying the torch like you are SFC Adams.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 4 at 2015 9:33 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:33:54 -0400

Looks like I have been mean for two careers. (and honest)

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Sep 4 at 2015 10:18 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Fri, 04 Sep 2015 10:18:15 -0400

Well it depends on how many time you correct the SM on the infraction. If it is the same infraction or the same series (uniform is always jacked up) improper wear of the uniform, pocket unbuttoned, cover worn incorrectly, boots un-bloused. When you constantly correct a soldier on the same in fractions you get frustrated and it may come across as mean. Well sorry, get over it. I say carry on SFC!

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 10 at 2017 12:42 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:42:43 -0500

Keep crushing their nuts, eventually they will toughen up and get used to meeting the standard.

Response by SP6 M. R. Teeters made Jul 17 at 2022 12:50 AM

SP6 M. R. Teeters — Sun, 17 Jul 2022 00:50:27 -0400

Mean...to soldier?!? Good God, man When did the Army I served in for 13 years until medical ( got blown up) retirement, my father served in for 32 years (3 Bronze Stars & 1 Silver Star) and my grandfather (KIA) turn into a silver-spoon privileged Peace Corps component. Warriors, speak up!!!

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Feb 20 at 2023 8:44 AM

1SG James Kelly — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 08:44:09 -0500

Never.