So there I was, speech class on campus, in uniform. I got 5 points taken off my speech for not having on a "professional" attire. Fair?

2015-10-07T22:32:07-04:00

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Oct 7 at 2015 10:34 PM

2015-10-07T22:34:34-04:00

That's crap! Obviously, your instructor is anti-military or something. I would question this action with the school.

Response by PVT Robert Gresham made Oct 7 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-10-07T22:42:21-04:00

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member While it may be acceptable, from a Military standpoint, to wear your uniform for such an occasion, obviously your teacher/professor did not believe that your attire was proper, maybe because of the subject of your presentation, or maybe because he/she felt that wearing your uniform actually distracted listeners from actually concentrating on what you were saying. I hate to say it it, because I know that you are proud of your uniform, but you can just take the -5 points for that class, or it might be better to wear some nice civilian attire next time.

Note: After reading your other comments, I believe that the instructor is in the wrong. If you really don't have time to change, then I would take this up with a counselor, or other school administrator.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 10:43 PM

2015-10-07T22:43:05-04:00

Did he give specific guidelines on professional attire? If not, then I'd challenge it.

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Oct 7 at 2015 11:02 PM

2015-10-07T23:02:00-04:00

Unless you are taking classes on the base education center, I would follow the rules of a civilian on a civilian campus. The professor wanted to grade you the same way he/she grades all the students, to get the students to select attire that matches the topic.

Response by AN Donald Miller made Oct 7 at 2015 11:17 PM

2015-10-07T23:17:56-04:00

Sounds like someone who does not believe in our way of life was offended. Seems to be a lot of that going on lately. Even Christians are now going to jail for standing their ground regarding the religious and spiritual beliefs. There was a post on my Facebook page that some people were offended by a sign that state God Bless our troops. Every time I see these things I see the 14th amendment to our constitution is being used to twist what our original Constitution meant. Also make me understand what was said by Stallen I think, correct me if I am wrong, we will over throw the united states without firing a single shot using our Constitution and bill of rights against us. Make me wonder what is going on when a child can no longer pray, yet no one knows why there are so many slaying in schools. Makes me wonder why a veteran can't wear his uniform in a class with out someone being offended. Makes me wonder why we can't Publicly display God Bless our troops in America without being sued or offending someone.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 11:18 PM

2015-10-07T23:18:47-04:00

Was it a dress uniform? (Class A or B not ACU?) If you were in ACU, maybe the professor didn't think it was the appropriate uniform choice. If thats the case I would point out that and show documentation that you were in proper duty uniform. The Army is the only service that is permitted to wear their combat/field uniform in the public in many cases. (Many generals speak in public in ACUs.) In my opinion, regardless of uniform, if it is worn properly and there is no campus rule against it (there shouldn't be: I would never attend such a school), you should not be graded down (especially if you didnt have time to change from work) and would protest it with the veterans affairs office and through the college grievance procedure. Many professors are not military-friendly. I did say in another posting the Army should develop a professional-looking class B and encourage wear of it in public and in office-type work.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-10-07T23:21:13-04:00

That is total BS. I was going to class for my Associate's degree when I was activated for a state emergency known as "Operation Deep Freeze". The gist of it was, our community where my unit is located had no natural gas. You can Google "Operation Deep Freeze NM" or "Northern NM loses Natural Gas" if you want to know more. Now, we had an assignment that I could not make up, no matter what. It was an etiquette dinner. So of course, the school isn't going to spend all of that money on one student. I asked my Squad leader if I can attend and notified her I will receive a zero if I don't. She pushed it up the chain, they determined they can lose me for a few hours and gave the green light. I traveled from Taos, NM to Albuquerque, NM and got there right on time in ACUs. Everyone else is in suits. I received full credit for the class. This was at ITT Tech.

I went ahead and did the leg work:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/05/nation/la-na-gas-shortage-20110205

This one is straight from the NM National Guard Minuteman magazine:

http://ebooks.aqppublishing.com/archive/national_guard/archived/NMMinuteman/201104_NMMinuteman_Spring.pdf

30,000 homes in New Mexico lose gas service

As New Mexico endured record cold — two mountain towns hit 36 degrees below zero — natural gas service to about 30,000 homes across a large swath of the state was cut off after suppliers in West...

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Oct 8 at 2015 1:04 AM

2015-10-08T01:04:08-04:00

That's a Bit Harsh and I think you look damn sharp in Uniform.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 8 at 2015 8:01 AM

2015-10-08T08:01:55-04:00

Why on earth were you wearing your uniform? Trying to score some free "patriotism" points? There was no reason for you to wear it. I'm inclined to think the instructor was lenient.

I'm assuming you were wearing ACU's. That's a "work uniform", the equivalent of wearing mechanics coveralls. It most certainly isn't "professional attire".

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 9:07 AM

2015-10-08T09:07:27-04:00

I will defer to the advice from Army professionals who understand current regulations and protocols better than I-Most commenting here seem to agree your instructor was in the wrong.

Personally, I think if the subject matter of the speech concerned the military...it should be appropriate to represent your own expertise in support of your thesis, and your professor should be proud to have you!

That said-I've always understood that the default position for "non-duty" is not to be in uniform. If I were going to speak in my own person, representing the Navy, and regulations permitted the wearing of my uniform, I'd probably select Service Dress. Its the correct parallel for the civilian equivalent of "business attire". That said, I've seen lots of general officers giving press conferences in ACUs.

The critical element here seems to be time...I once had to report to an admiral in "working khaki" while supervising repairs in the yards; Some of his staff wanted my head on a plate-but the Admiral had conveyed to me that time was of the essence, and appreciated the fact that I reported to him immediately, instead of making him wait while I drove back to my housing, changed, and drove back to the NAVSTA. Had we been pier-side, with my SDBs in my locker-I'd have taken the ten minutes to change. Your prof should probably take your duty schedule into account before passing judgement based on his own, limited understanding.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Oct 8 at 2015 11:31 AM

2015-10-08T11:31:51-04:00

Professional attire in the civilian world is coat & tie... maybe a matching suit. Unless you were directly representing the Army, I'd side with the professor. If "professional attire" wasn't prescribed as a part of the presentation, you might challenge the docking. Otherwise, when in Rome, do as the Romans.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Oct 8 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-10-08T12:22:21-04:00

Unfair, assuming your speech was military oriented.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-10-08T12:39:07-04:00

well ... what is the topic? if the topic is remotely related to the "service", that is clear that you had been discriminated. If not ... you are still being discriminated, but just within a teacher's "excuse".

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 8 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-10-08T12:56:30-04:00

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member I'd talk to the instructor's supervisor. That's BS.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-10-08T14:40:33-04:00

After reading all the comments I agree with your professor docking you five points for wearing your ACUs.... Note I said ACU because that is what your wore. As a professor I too would dock someone for wearing an ACU instead of the ASU. When making a presentation the ASU is the professional uniform to discuss military topics. You will never see a General, officer or any senior non commissioned officer go before a board or interview panal in public to make a speech in ACUs especially with civilians. You will see see them do so in ASUs. The ACU is a "professional work uniform" the ASU is the "professional" serviceable uniform. That is why many units are now wearing the ASU "class B" in garrison. I hate you lost 5 points but I hope you use this advice for future circumstances.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 6:28 PM

2015-10-08T18:28:29-04:00

Depends on the uniform you were in and whether or not this was PME or civilian.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-10-08T18:32:40-04:00

Wait, SGT Juan De lid Santos, you were in your ASU or ACU? That makes a big difference, if business attire was required.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 10:14 PM

2015-10-08T22:14:28-04:00

WOW, lots of vitrol against the instructor here. Whether you like it or not, when you put on that uniform, you represent your service (goes for everyone here, not just the OP). You are EXPECTED to present yourself in a professional manner (that is what we get paid for) and, I'm sorry to say, when you arrive to give a presentation in your work uniform, you do NOT present a professional picture of the military. Sorry, but them's the facts. Like I stated in a comment to 2LT John Ivester's response, take the time to make yourself presentable. Have clothing to change into on the evenings you have class and work it out with your supervisor to take a few minutes to change.

And just for the record, a polo and a pair of khakis will go a long way in presenting a "professional" appearance. And yes, I would have docked points for someone in a work uniform as well.