Soldier Discipline?

2013-11-13T00:38:50-05:00

In the Army today, what do you find to be the best way to discipline a soldier?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2013 1:44 AM

2013-11-13T01:44:12-05:00

In my years the best thing that I have found to work with soldiers is to just level with them. Yes you are their superior and they need to show you the respect you have earned. However, being all about the aspects of your MOS and verbally or physically 'disciplining' them for every little thing will only lower their morale as an individual and eventually lead to a non-cohesive team. Sit with your soldiers and talk everything over and do the same with new soldiers you receive so they know what to expect. Treat them as you would like to be treated and inform them of how they should address you and act around you (typical C&C). When given a task, I have usually joined my soldiers to show that I'm in the fight with them. I have also lived up to to being fair and impartial in my recommendations.

I have had soldiers from other sections pleading to get on my teams just for what I've said above and each soldier under me has shown me the respect and discipline a soldier should display. Have I had a few bad eggs--yes, however I dealt with them accordingly and they fell in line with the rest of the team. Overall, it's all about management and leadership techniques (these are separate in most aspects and I don't want to expand on this unless asked--it'd take a while) and how you present yourself to your soldiers.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2013 10:04 AM

2013-11-13T10:04:57-05:00

Most of the points in this discussion are great and I think they hit the
mark.

Mentorship and good leadership is the best way to “treat” a Soldier. Taking care
of them and displaying genuine care for them and their needs will go far to
gain their respect. Always treat Soldiers with respect, but at the same time it
is the leader's responsibility to instill a proper sense of subordination (or
humility I like to call it) in their Soldiers.

Teaching a Soldier to understand that humility goes a long way to helping
them gain credibility in the eyes of their superiors is key as well. No leader
will treat a Soldier "well" if that Soldier is disrespectful, loud,
or speaking out of place. Speaking your mind with no filter is a problem I see
in today's military. I don't mind someone speaking plainly in a private conversation,
but the loud Soldier/NCO who is yelling their point in public has to end. To
transition to a more professional force we need to start acting like one.

I didn't agree when they did away with smoke sessions. I think that when a
Soldier has pushed a leader to the end of their rope, that leader should be
able to correct them on the spot. Sometimes that requires a conversation at a
higher decibel then some maybe use too.

My question is, how do you teach a Soldier humility that has no real zone of
discomfort? (They don't feel shame or embarrassment) For example, a Soldier
fails his/her AFPT or an NCOES and when confronted by their NCO as to why they
failed they respond with a simple "Who cares? Why does it matter?"
How do we as leaders instill in our Soldier a sense of purpose and pride in
getting the job done and being professional? If we can do that, then we will
see a more disciplined force. Everyone needs to care, about themselves, their
unit and the Army.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Nov 13 at 2013 12:03 PM

2013-11-13T12:03:39-05:00

I'd like to add that as an officer, I respected the primary role that my unit's NCOs played in overall discipline of personnel. This was something the NCOs took great pride in, and I did not feel it was right/necessary to get personally involved in situations like this. I have seen some prior-enlisted officers get involved, and I saw that this frustrated the NCOs, but that's just my experience. NCOs are the backbone of the military and its disciplined culture.

Response by CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A. made Nov 13 at 2013 1:30 PM

2013-11-13T13:30:11-05:00

1. Training. "Don't train until you get it right, train until you can't get it wrong." (I don't remember where I read this). When assuming responsibility, instill discipline through training immediately. Simple tactics, like Drill and Ceremony, are quick, established, and easy ways to make it known that you expect your people to be disciplined. Property Accountability. Be absolutely meticulous when assuming responsibility or transferring property. Demonstrate to your Soldiers you take things seriously. Set tough, measurable, and achievable standards for promotion, make them known, and stick to them.

2. Corrective Training. NCOs must be more creative in their enforcement of standards and use of corrective training. They must be willing to go the extra mile, and use corrective training that not only disciplines Soldiers, but trains them as well. As an NCO, and still, I make subordinates hand copy regulations (or portions thereof). The standards for accuracy and readability are high. They will get the idea, they learn the message, and the word spreads. Don't pull BS like making your subordinates show up 60 minutes early to a formation and then not show up yourself. That's hypocrisy.

3. Punishment. Use only as absolutely necessary. Overue of UCMJ is a clear sign of an unprepared leader. Too many Company Commanders are relying on UCMJ to establish discipline within the unit. All that does is bring down morale. If you going to use it, you must be willing to post it. Secrets breed contempt. Prevent the drain on morale by posting UCMJ and letting everyone discover the standards.

Response by PFC John Eskaff made Nov 13 at 2013 7:05 PM

2013-11-13T19:05:11-05:00

Smoke um.. I never feared losing money, or even having to work for the Army for free. When they told us we were gonna get smoked until we die, you better bet the entire Company made sure that did not happen.
This is coming from a 25 year old US Army VET MOS (31B) MP (Basic @ FT Leonard Wood MI.)
They need to drop all these silly new rules like *No cussing at the soldiers who are in basic training* Your sending us to war.... Don't sugar coat it, If we can take a bullet we can take a few fucks.
Don't limit training! The fact that we couldn't train outside because it was *To Cold* Was Bull. You think it's always warm in Afghanistan? You think the enemy is going to stay inside just because it's cold?
A soldier is a machine of war, regardless if it's Army, Navy, Air-force, or Marines. Start training us to be those machines, rather then half a machine.
MOS does play a large part in training, but EVERY soldier has a Basic Training phase right? That is where the soldier goes from Civilian, to Soldier and the people in charge of making the rules for it need to wake up and give us the respect of proper training.
Bring back the discipline that our forefathers had to endure, It sure as hell proved that it's successful in combat *WWII* I am not saying train them like it's those days again, but discipline us like it's those day again.
It would be barbaric to NOT prepare soldiers 100% for real combat.

Response by PFC John Eskaff made Nov 13 at 2013 7:22 PM

2013-11-13T19:22:19-05:00

From a US Army Soldiers standpoint.
Depending on the soldier did, would determine how they are punished.
There are to many rules in place that they claim are for a soldier protection. Some of these rules hurt us more then protect us. This example may seem small to some but it's a huge deal, and was a huge deal for 70% of my company in Basic. Our superiors, mainly drill instructors were not allowed to curse at us. Were preparing for war FFS I think we deserve the respect to be treated as adults, and not have to feel like children! Another big issue is taking away our money, and possible forcing us to work as a soldier for free, or for a longer period then originally contracted. This punishment is completely situational, as a single soldier I had everything I needed and all the money I made was just for my own enjoyment. I never feared having that taken away nor did many other soldiers who lived beside me. When we got told were gonna get smoke until we die, is when things got serious. The platoon would make sure we worked as a team to ensure that did not happen, it strengthened our teamwork skills, and that's the most important factor in war.... Teamwork. While we might not always be at war, or all might not see it, you NEED to prepare us for it.
Now, let's talk about when a single soldier preforms a extremely horrible act. I will use an example that we experienced with one soldier in out platoon in Germany. Soldier A raped Female Soldier B same platoon. Personally, and off my own views he would be put away for life, but that's not realistic. People make mistakes right? He might have learned his lesson had they put aside all these new rules, and combined psychical with mental punishment. Sure, take away his pay, make him work the worst job in the Army for a few years. That does not mean he will learn, but that also doesn't mean a different soldier in his position would be affected the same way. What I am trying to say is bring back the psychical discipline without all the new rules. Let our leadership smoke us till we pass out, Let them isolate us until we are about to go crazy, Hell as barbaric as this sounds I would be more terrified of getting lashed then any form of paperwork punishment you could bestow upon me. Let the Military put fear into a soldier when it's needed but be a mother, and father too. Stop making all these rules that are told protect us when they only make us weaker......

Response by SFC James Baber made Nov 17 at 2013 8:02 PM

2013-11-17T20:02:29-05:00

From an "old skool" Soldier/NCO, the NCO's lost lots of what we were trained and brought up with when the standards changed in the mid-90s. Yes, it is true we are receiving a more intelligent level of service members coming into the military, but many are also too smart for their own good, mainly looking for a way to get out of doing what they need to do instead of finding a way to do it the right way to finish in a reasonable time. And many of those that made it through the system have become some of the NCOs that are performing in the same way with their own subordinates, just doing what is necessary for promotion and not leading and molding the next generation of leaders. Saw it too many times during my last 5-6 years in, and during deployments which led to unnecessary equipment loss and injuries.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2013 10:42 PM

2013-11-17T22:42:31-05:00

Get creative but always ensure the punishment fits the crime.  Taking a Soldiers time is always a way to get the point across. 

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2013 1:57 AM

2013-11-18T01:57:35-05:00

For me it has always depended on the "crime" and the individual.
It is easy for most to fly off of the handle and let emotions control
decisions, but that can lead to inaccurate resolutions.If it is an honest mistake identify it, discuss what or why it was wrong,
and provide way to avoid it in the future. Smart Soldiers will learn from their
mistakes, and if it was an accident or due to lack of knowledge it probably won’t
happen again.Some things can be dealt with quickly, and immediate training will help instill
your point. Usually dealing with discipline or combat training. Still Leaders
need to identify what happened and how to fix it.Each Soldier is an individual. I can say to some "I am very disappointed
in you. You know better" and it hits their heart. Others learn through
loud, attention grabbing, notification. You can talk calmly to this type of
individual and they think its all good cause they didn’t get yelled at so its
not that serious.We need to be understanding, yet never lower the standard. Enforcing, yet compassionate.
Ultimately trying to make the individual a better person through developing,
and mentoring junior enlisted so that one day they can take our position.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2013 2:19 AM

2013-11-18T02:19:58-05:00

This is really dependant and situational.  I think that most of my experiences with
Soldiers are that things should be done individually. I'm not always a fan of
group "punishment" unless it's helping unit, squad, and/or team
cohesion. When dealing with the individual it's very necessary to assess what
elicits the desired response. Some Soldiers respond very well to counseling and
discussion and being involved in their own process of growing into their career
and learning from their mistakes. Others could care less and they are not
interested in what you think or how their actions may affect them or the team down
the road. These may need firmer hand to correct and guide and mentor.

Response by SGT Michael Smith made Mar 4 at 2014 9:20 PM

2014-03-04T21:20:14-05:00

Escalation of force.

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Mar 4 at 2014 9:38 PM

2014-03-04T21:38:44-05:00

I learned from early on that you do not have to yell at soldiers to discipline them. The SGT I fear the most when I came in was the one who made me question my own actions, who was real and who would get close up and let you know you disappointed them. Through my carrier I found that yelling leads soldiers to not respect you. I awarded my soldiers for doing well, and if they did wrong they would lose their weekends to guard duty, cleaning out the storage shed and refolding the tents. The trick was I was with them. It showed them that if they looked bad so did I. This was something that I learned while stationed in Korea. If I soldier got weekend duty because they were being punished, their NCO, Squad Leader, PLT Leader, 1LT was right their with them pulling the same duty. I let everyone know that not only did the soldier do wrong, but that their leaders failed to train them properly. One thing my soldiers knew about me, is that I was not punishing them, I was teaching them how to be better leaders. You can yell, and you can order them, and you can make them do things you wont, but it will never earn their respect, and it will never teach them.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2019 10:41 AM

2019-08-04T10:41:29-04:00

Through my experience with a whole range of personalities, a little more work for me but a counseling statement has had more of an effect compared to a smoking. I have also only smoked three soldiers ever because there have been successful attempts in communication which lead to a better understanding. We may say millenials are soft or whatever, but treating them with respect can work for most. I would have to say that one of the worst behaving/disrespectful soldiers I've had in my platoon received a counseling statement and it stopped his behavior immediately. The soldier is accustomed to pushups and laughing about it later, that's the time out you get as a kid. Prove you can and will do more. Six of one and half a dozen of another I guess, each soldier is different so smoke them, communicate with them (we need more good leaders), or counsel them.