Soldier with financial problems

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:21:48 -0400

What can you do with/for a Soldier that says they cannot afford to send their ASU's to alterations and cleaners? This Soldier lives in the barracks and goes out on the weekends.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 20 at 2014 7:34 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:34:00 -0400

Start the paperwork. Failure to maintain their assigned clothing and equipment. Make room for the next soldier who puts dedication to duty ahead of Class VI livations.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 20 at 2014 7:51 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:51:34 -0400

I have leniency for the young first term barracks rats who got their stuff stolen out of the washer/dryer the first time. Of course, that was back in the day when we could lock down the barracks and go through everyone's gear till we found it. "Health and Welfare Inspections." Back in the day, we didn't even see it as abusive. It was the standard. A-bags and B-bags were packed and sealed and ready to go on the Bradleys 24/7. 1SG had clippers at the ready for anyone who's hair wasn't inspection ready on Monday. Lord help me, I'm having a 3rd ID flashback!.....lol

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Oct 20 at 2014 7:57 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:57:47 -0400

That my friend is not a financial problem, it is poor judgement. There is a difference.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Oct 20 at 2014 9:00 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:00:35 -0400

So, I have made my smart comment.......

What can you do?

Mentor them, grab them by the short and curlies and turn it into a lesson. Reality check, if you cannot get ahold of that situation and rectify it immediately, they will become more useless than they already are.

We used to simply secure liberty back in the day. Tough to spend money if you are always at work! Not sure if in todays more PC mindset if that would work.

The question will quickly become 1. Will you make the effort to salvage (I would say yes, since you are asking in this forum)? 2. Will the troop respond to the effort? 3. Will you be allowed the latitude you need to remove the head from the anal cavity it has implanted itself within. Among other things, troop needs sound financial advice and no fooling advice on reality. I am a fan of the Ramsey methodology for finances, to some degree, but following it entirely is super tough to do. Usually that financial class is free or dirt cheap through many churches.

Good luck.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2014 9:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:04:01 -0400

Leader Action Step 1: Sit down with Soldier, have him lay out all expenses vs income after taxes (i.e. car payment, cable + sports package, cell phone, car insurance, any investments (unlikely and local strip club does not count), any other bills (fancy tires/rims); car speakers-stereo, sirrus radio, etc! subtract total from net income received. if any money left over, he's lying!
Step 2. IF no money left over, let him know you're contacting his parents advising of situation and then referring him ACS for financial management. Often this embarrassment will snap a trooper into reality and help get him/her on track PDQ.
STEP 3: ACS Financial Manager- ACS can contact creditors and work out payment plans at lesser monthly rate, teach him how to pay himself first and begin saving a little each month; Also develop and implement a budget plan. DO not babysit him, this Soldier is a grown as man, time he act like one and be treated as one. Counsel in writing every action taken. Follow up with him to see how he's doing, but don't keep your boot in his behind. It's on him to carry out the mission, your's to only motivate and urge.
STEP 4- if you know this is a truly good young Soldier, who just does not have the skills, and you feel the need to take the tiime, sit down with him and his bills and watch him pay them. I did this for 4 Soldiers over my career. When they got paid (we got paid cash at the end of the month back then by the pay officer), I had an envelop in which they initially placed $100 dollars in each month, envelop went into company safe. Bills were paid sitting at my desk, put in envelop and together we put in mailbox. This was in the early days of my career, in the early 80s as a PSG.
What ever you do, ensure actions and counselings are in writing and you're covering what the Soldier isn't doing correctly and corrective actions you and others have taken. If after all this and he still has his head up his forth point of contact....it's past time to move him out and become a civilian. I have seen on ocassions where the phone call to the parents hae paid off tremendously. A cussing out by upset parents letting PVTJohnny Retard know, he's not coming back home if he gets booted out of the Army can do wonders for some problem Soldiers...not all ...but it does work for some.

And lastly, if this Soldier has been a problem child for some time, then SFC Mark Merino , SGT Richard H. and MSG Wade Huffman have hit the nail on the head...now finish driving it in thru his forehead and move out...you have other Soldiers to tend to and training to conduct. Good luck!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2014 9:27 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:27:03 -0400

Financial Counseling, Leadership engagement and basic old soldiering. If a soldier fails to get his finances in order, consider recommending seperation because the Soldier us a high risk. Especially if the SM has a security clearance and work with classified documents. Seek advice from your legal team if the top three methods failed to achieve the task.

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Oct 20 at 2014 10:08 PM

Cpl Ray Fernandez — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 22:08:40 -0400

Have them present a budget and show me how they spent their money. More than likely they'll look at me like I grew some genitals on my forehead because they won't know what I mean or even how to create a budget. Sad thing is that many young people have little to no knowledge of how to budget and plan financially. I was lucky that I had some SNCOs that talked to us about finance and taught us about budgeting, and investing to be able to afford a well funded retirement.

Response by Sgt Joshua Ludlam made Oct 20 at 2014 10:43 PM

Sgt Joshua Ludlam — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 22:43:42 -0400

Definitely no paperwork yet, speak to the young soldier and find out what is going on. If he is unwilling, let him know he will be reprimanded, or if he says I wasn't really aware of it thank you for pointing it out it'll be squared away ASAP, if it is not rectified then consider the write up. But only as a last resort. I personally don't believe in writing someone up without speaking with them first and finding out what is going on. Just my opinion

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2014 10:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 22:51:10 -0400

Administrative counseling with the requirement of 30 calendar days to get his shit together, to be blunt. The burden is on the soldier to up-keep his uniforms.
Alterations and cleaning? Back at Hood, that cost me, maybe $25, $30 bucks.
This is a bullshit of an excuse. Get him, SSG!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 10:00 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:00:27 -0400

I say extra weekend nightly duties, classes on how to be responsible, counseling statements, and I, personally, would deny him any skill training until he squares himself away.

Response by SPC Daniel Edwards made Oct 21 at 2014 10:04 AM

SPC Daniel Edwards — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:04:16 -0400

If it hasn't been said yet, I am going to say it now: NO MORE PARTYING UNTIL THE UNIFORM IS SQUARED AWAY!!! Put that in a counseling to make it official. If you have to, make him do regular uniform inspections until he is showing that he is taking care of it (includes seeing receipts to show that he turned it in and already paid for it). He needs to bite the bullet and decide what is really important. Going out and having fun is not needed to live. You could also (probably, check on it first) make the soldier turn in a budget on a regular basis as well showing what he is paying for. If the soldier continues to bullshit it, make it to where he cannot go anywhere without checking in.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 2:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:53:31 -0400

There is absolutely no excuse any soldier to not be able to afford any alterations or small uniform corrections. There are other ways of acquiring the necessary insignia, patches, ribbons, any of those items can be secured via alternate dan B uniform shop. For a much smaller price. However, these young soldiers tend to get wrapped up in purchasing items there are not even authorized to be wearing or just wasteful spending.

It starts with leadership, needs to work is way down and show/teach them on what poverty really looks like. Soapbox down.

They definitely need negative reinforcement!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 6:38 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 06:38:04 -0400

Get the soldier to some type of financial counseling class, where they'll be able to help him or her work up a liveable budget. Give him or her a period of adjustment to the budget (or enough rope to hang themselves), say 6 months, check on them monthly, randomly. Along with all of this a written counseling as incentive to hold up their end of the deal, or to help set themselves up for failure along the way. If he or she has money to go out, he or she has money to get their uniform pressed and ready for inspection. Even if it's just once a year to hang in the closet.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 3:00 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:00:26 -0400

Why pussyfoot around. State the facts you got a problem this is how it is this is how it will be. Now get your shit together or you will have a much bigger problem. I have never had a lot of finesse just evaluate the problem and correct it.

Response by AN Brett Robinson made Oct 22 at 2014 8:24 PM

AN Brett Robinson — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:24:24 -0400

Give them counseling, limited liberty and have them sign up an attend Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University. For the class to work they themselves have to be willing to change. It worked for me and a lot of other people I know.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 8:29 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:29:04 -0400

I'm sure this has already been said, in some manner or another, but I am too lazy to read through all the prior responses.

The soldier needs to be referred to whatever financial counseling/planning services are offered (I am RC and don't know the specifics).

The soldier should be reminded that there is a annual clothing allowance provided for these kinds of maintenance; it was not a bonus to go and buy a round. In fact, if his next annual is relatively close, escorting him to the nearest laundry/tailor and assisting him in putting those funds to proper use might be a good idea.

Having said that, I remember when I was a young enlisted, active duty soldier. The freedom and excitement of being in Germany certainly helped my monthly paychecks burn holes through my pants. (That third week of the month was always tough).

I think the bigger problem falls on the army to make a greater effort to tech our young adults more about financial management and planning. I don't know if there are mandatory classes on this (if there is I'm sure it will be some watered down version on ATARRS. )

I wonder how difficult it would be for a separate account to be set up for soldiers that is used only to draw on their clothing allowance for it's intended purpose. For instance, alterations would be payed off this separate allowance card.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 1:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:54:18 -0400

I would want an explanation, and would also want him to present me with a copy of his budget or expenses, with bank statements. I would do the counseling as was suggested by others. I would want to review these items. And if it is a matter of him spending unwisely, say going out on weekends or whatever and being a goodtime Charlie, you could have him pull duty every Friday and Saturday night for a period of time. He could also get a part time job. Heck when I was going to AIT I worked at a pizza shop on the weekends. I was under age and didn't want to become barracks rat either. And the money was nice. Heck I made almost as much doing that as my military pay.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 9:30 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 21:30:39 -0500

I like to term this financial education. Remember the two things that soldiers care about the most...time and money.

I recommend setting up a roth IRA / TSP from day one. This way you don't miss the money because you quickly get used to not having it. If you cannot invest that much at the beginning, use the yearly 1% pay raise you get to increase your TSP etc another 1% of your pay.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 2 at 2014 9:58 PM

SSG Tim Everett — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 21:58:20 -0500

Oh he lives in the barracks? Guess what? His stupid ass can report to the CQ/Staff Duty desk every hour from COB until midnight. Those are during the times he isn't working extra duty on the weekends.

Once he gets the picture, some sort of budget/finance class. If that doesn't work, start messing with his pay -- soldiers pay attention then.

Response by TSgt Jackie Jones made Dec 2 at 2014 10:14 PM

TSgt Jackie Jones — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 22:14:02 -0500

That's a choice made. If he/she wants to spend money and partying on the weekends, then he/she best learn to do the laundry and press a uniform!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2014 10:30 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 22:30:02 -0500

ACS has classes that can help this soldier manage his finance better. And he has to be counseled before he is sent to ACS.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 3 at 2014 2:25 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:25:18 -0500

Maybe he can get a job at the cleaners. Two birds. ;-)

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Dec 9 at 2014 4:59 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 04:59:43 -0500

IMHO, that Soldier has two choices:
1. Rearrange his/her financial priorities
2. Find another job.
Obviously, maintaining his/her uniform in a satisfactory manner is beyond his/her ability.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2014 12:21 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Dec 2014 12:21:53 -0500

It's sad, the pay isn't much and a lot of young soldiers have bad spending habits. I guess if I were a genuinely concerned NCO, I would ask him or her to print out their monthly bank statement and to bring it to me, it would be a one-on-one counseling. I would show him where he is spending a majority of his income. I would than show him that he may need to go moviee movies on Fri night instead of going out to eat. It's a known fact we spend over a 1/3 of our income on food. If he lives in the barracks, he could eat at the chow hall more often, instead of going to Burger King. Many of us would be surprised where we can squeeze a few extra dollars. Even skipping the expensive Starbucks, Black Rock or Dutch Bros every week would easily put $30 extra dollars in your wallet. If it happens time and time again, remedial personal online financial planning training, or MCI back in my days. A fast food worker makes more money than most E3s. I would sympathize the first time, teach them about saving for emergencies...most important thing someone can do.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 6 at 2015 12:47 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 12:47:20 -0500

1st off I would set down with this soldier and ask where all of their money is going to, find out if its going home to help a family member, if they have a large amount of debt and dont know how to manage money, once the details are brought to light a solution can be worked on. many soldiers that live in the barracks are still young and this may be their 1st duty station, may be even their 1st real job and not fully understand what it takes to manage money.It used to be that classes were given on many posts after COB to help soldiers learn to manage money/ check books. If your in Humphreys then Id wager to bet Mammason is getting all his money.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Jan 6 at 2015 1:42 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:42:06 -0500

Have you counseled him or her? I've learned the hard (and embarrassing) way that some soldiers send all their money home to help feed younger brothers, sisters, and even moms who are unemployed or have been abandoned and are homeless. It happens more than you might think. Make sure you know why before assuming they're a bum.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2015 6:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 06:31:46 -0500

Send th SM to a Budget class and see where all of his finances is going

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2018 4:21 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 04:21:32 -0500

You get married to fix financial issues