Soldiers working with civilians..how do you feel about it?

SPC Dave St.Andrew — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:51:19 -0400

For those of you still in that work with civilians, do you find it hard to do? I work in a TMC with 2 civilians, one is an retired 1SG, so he gets it, and is awesome to work with, the other one though, she is impossible to deal with. She doesn't understand how the Military works, and micro-manages everything I do. She doesn't understand the rank structure and thinks I can just call up a CSM and tell him to do something. Anyone else have to deal with this?

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Aug 13 at 2015 10:01 PM

SFC Everett Oliver — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 22:01:32 -0400

I worked for a Civilian one time in my 22 years. And it turns out to be one of my favorite stories. 2 Actually. One we ended up being rival in laws as I married his sons Mother in law... That went over like a ton of bricks. And then a General officer came to visit the facility, was introduced to the Civilian who was the basically the OIC. Then he was introduced to me, remembered me from a previous meeting in another Unit and proceeded to ask me to show him around "your" facility; the civilians were almost ignored. Don't understand why we never got along......

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 11:15 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:15:09 -0400

I have to say: I've worked for a lot of civilians (both Air Force and Navy) and I've never really run into this issue. And in the job I have now, I was the only military in my branch for a while. I'm wondering if you, SSG Palmer, and SFC Oliver just had some bad luck with people who are just bad managers. It is very possible (I'd say likely) that it had nothing to do with their civilian status. The civilians I worked for (and yes, many had no prior military experience) accepted feedback eagerly because they knew they were at a disadvantage having never served themselves. They took the time to learn the rank structure and what it meant and they adjusted themselves as necessary. That being said, it was also our responsibility as military members to get to understand where THEY were coming from as civilians. This isn't a one-way street. Yes, we wear a uniform and they don't but we are all on the same team. It is like going to a Joint unit for the first time and not understanding the culture of another service. You take the time to understand it and figure out a way to have them all work together. I'm sorry you all had a tough experience, but you're going to have bad bosses both in and out of uniform. That does not mean that a civilian can't lead military. I've seen it work. Now. Do you know if the Army offers any kind of training to Civilians that come in to lead in a military setting (like a crash course in military culture)? If it isn't an Army policy, it might be good to suggest it at your unit level, especially if the problem has not been limited to one individual. I know the Air Force (at SOME level...not sure which) educates our civilians on this stuff. Sorry; I know that was a long response, but I hope that perhaps it helped you see another point of view and gives you some ideas for actions you can take if you run in to this situation again in the future.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 11:34 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:34:38 -0400

I am the only active duty officer at my current assignment. Everyone else is a government civilian. Luckily the vast majority of them are retired military so they do understand. In fact 3 of them held the billet I'm in prior to them retiring. That said it's still difficult at times. For example we end up traveling a lot on weekends. They get comp time and I am technically not authorized it. So if we leave on a Sunday and get back on a Saturday that just means I had a 9 day week. No compensation on either end. That doesn't bother me except it is weird to see the people I work with not showing up the Friday before or the Monday after lol.

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Aug 14 at 2015 1:33 AM

CPT Russell Pitre — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 01:33:39 -0400

I think the Army Civilians is the biggest scam in the military. They are worse than politicians. For every one good one you find there are 9 horrible other ones. I have only dealt with a bet at Benning. I hated every experience.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Aug 14 at 2015 10:15 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:15:51 -0400

I had long careers in uniform and then GS. What you have is an odd fit. If the civilian is performing according to her job standards, then it's an issue of style points, or better yet, lack of them. People who micro, don't trust. So you can hold up your end in building trust with her in how you interact. Avoiding, being short with, only doing the minimum, etc. reinforces lack of trust and you'll actively encourage continuation of the behavior. The CSM many not have relevant experience dealing with civilian employees. Best advice for the CSM would be to discuss with the senior civilian and the HR specialist. Nothing like creating large secondaries by dealing with it improperly. Good luck.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 10:38 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:38:08 -0400

There are a lot working at Air Force medical centers. I wouldn't have a problem with it but they always either lose my medical records or the jack them up some how., which prevents me from doing my job, which pisses me off.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Aug 14 at 2015 10:41 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:41:02 -0400

In my last job. I managed around 30 civilians , some got it, some didn't. My relationship with them was different than yours. I could be hard especially when you had to ask them to stay late. I found that it depended on the individual.

Response by Sarah White made Oct 13 at 2015 6:52 PM

Sarah White — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:52:56 -0400

I am shocked that woman did not take the opportunity to learn the rank structure in order to do her job better. I don't understand how you can be in a professional environment and not be able to properly greet various branch's of military and their rank. It is wrong of me but I can only presume she was bitter towards them in some way? Meaning she should never have been blessed with that opportunity. I was a civilian working with military, was raised with military. I knew no matter how close you got, "Jennifer" and "John" were Major and Sergeant in public.

Response by Tonya Wacker made Oct 27 at 2015 1:49 PM

Tonya Wacker — Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:49:46 -0400

I am sorry for those that have negative experiences with civilians. I have worked very hard over the years to try to stay on point with the changes in military law and customs so that no one has to waste time explaining what they are doing or why they do it. I now have two veterans working with me and I am very honored to be able to have them on my team and find them invaluable. As we are a veteran service program it is even more important that we educate interns and others in the civilian world about military life so that they can work better with their military counterparts.