Some blame guns, some blame Islam. Why is there not more discussion on the mentally ill?

2016-06-14T13:11:27-04:00

It's like the old Miller Lite "Taste Great / Less Filling" ad campaign but now it's "Guns bad / Muslims bad". The media often touches on the fact that family and friends reported mental illness but then that's as far as it goes.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 1:13 PM

2016-06-14T13:13:11-04:00

Islam is the problem

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 1:16 PM

2016-06-14T13:16:00-04:00

No one wants to talk mental illness for a couple of reasons. 1. It has been viewed so badly than no one wants to be associated with anyone mentally ill - certainly not my friends and family. 2. It is just too scary that I might be mentally ill. 3. If I am I fear that there is nothing that I can do about it. etc. etc.

Response by SSgt Robert Marx made Jun 14 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-06-14T13:20:02-04:00

The evidence here points that the perpetrator was insane and decided to murder as many people as possible. He needed to be held responsible for his actions and the law enforcement community stopped him with reasonable force. I believe that in this case his Muslim connection was secondary while his mental condition was primary.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 14 at 2016 1:28 PM

2016-06-14T13:28:17-04:00

Blame Islam? Are you nuts? (Oh, that's where the mental illness comes in. There's obviously something wrong with you since you can't seem to remember that blaming Islam is a violation of political correctness)

Response by TSgt Brian Wyngaert made Jun 14 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-06-14T13:36:30-04:00

Mental illness doesn't fit in base political agenda right now. The candidates or the news. Wait until after the election and mental illness will become the Hot Topic of Shooters like this again

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Jun 14 at 2016 1:37 PM

2016-06-14T13:37:37-04:00

Here's the thing. Conceptually, you are absolutely right -- mentally ill people should not be allowed to acquire weapons and shoot up crowds (and neither should Muslims or criminals). But functionally, there's no viable way to achieve it. There is no way to turn the concept into reality -- at least not without a whole lot of far reaching unintended consequences.

Without a clear and unambiguous means to determine who is or will be mentally ill, making the determination becomes an exercise in judgment. And any time that happens, some of the judgment makers will make questionable decisions, and even interject their own biases into the judgment process. For example, if I was the one deciding who is mentally it, I might start with anti-Trump demonstrators because they have shown a propensity for violence. We certainly don't want guns in the hands of those who already have a record of vandalism and assault now, do we?

And if one is determined to be ineligible to own a gun by being deemed mentally ill, how does one appeal the decision? Is a person to be denied Constitutional rights without any due process? Some people may be comfortable with doing exactly that, but it's a damned slippery slope.

Response by CPO Frank Coluccio made Jun 14 at 2016 1:55 PM

2016-06-14T13:55:01-04:00

You mean there is a difference between Islam and mental illness?

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Jun 14 at 2016 2:01 PM

2016-06-14T14:01:18-04:00

If you were bullied and starved and beaten and occasionally raped and only allowed to learn from one book your whole life, would you be more or less likely to be in full control of your faculties? Most of the Radical Islamic Terrorists (RIT) were made into bad guys. They weren't born bad guys, but now they ARE bad guys, unfortunately. So we need to treat them like evil, criminal, thugs (bad guys). Sorry. And if you had all the rights and privileges and wealth and education as an American citizen, and you STILL became a RIT, then not sorry.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jun 14 at 2016 2:06 PM

2016-06-14T14:06:08-04:00

The issue is far more complicated than "addressing" mental illness, or gun control, or even terrorism. If you could snap your fingers and fix any one issue in the US we would still have a war on our hands.

What we are facing is radical political movement (IS or ISIS) whose proponents (leaders, followers, and sideline supporters) wrap themselves in the mantle of a religion (Islam), and are willing to do anything including theft, drug dealing, kidnapping, slave trading, torture, murder, genocide, terrorism, and war. They are willing to use anyone including soldiers of fortune, slaves, the ignorant, the starving, the oppressed, and the mentally ill, to reach both their long term goal of a Global Caliphate and their short term goals of controlling territory, generating income (to continue the fight and better the lives of their leadership), and to help with their recruiting of new cannon fodder.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jun 14 at 2016 2:49 PM

2016-06-14T14:49:50-04:00

Mental illness has a stigma attached to it. Even amongst those that truly need help, there are those who won't seek it out for fear of being seen as weak or helpless. Mental illness is that skeleton you sweep under the rug until they embarrass you or themselves at some family get together.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 5:15 PM

2016-06-14T17:15:37-04:00

I don't believe it's appropriate to compare Islam and mental illness. Two different things.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 8:39 PM

2016-06-14T20:39:12-04:00

The Gun Alone can not do anything!!
But!! Put it in the hands of a person who wants to give ISIS credibility and pledges allegiance to them??
Then it is easy to see where the blame belongs!!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 11:10 PM

2016-06-14T23:10:35-04:00

We used to have laws for involuntary commitment, but in the interest of upholding civil rights, we've defunded asylums and stigmatized commitment of the mentally ill. This is why the homeless are disproportionately composed of the mentally ill and why we have so many issues with mentally unstable people committing crimes. There's historically been abuses whereby sane people would be placed in asylums and generally poor conditions which have not gone unnoticed by the public. This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, but since conservatives often are too busy defending the 2nd amendment from liberals and liberals are extremely concerned with infringements on people's civil rights , the argument for addressing this issue gets lost in the din. How many people of low intellect do you see making blanket statements about guns every time some atrocity happens? They never delve into the mentally ill criminal, they just note that he was sick in the head and move on, assuming that nothing could be done to alleviate that fact.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Jun 15 at 2016 2:01 AM

2016-06-15T02:01:51-04:00

Undiagnosed mental illness is a real problem in the country especially among our veteran population. Not to mention most of these medications have rather violent side effects. I think this topic deserves some credence. not every gun owner/ Muslim shoots people. Maybe if we heard more about any of the past shooters states of mind we might gain some insights. The Boston bomber, the theater shooter...what happened to these guys? What's their state of mind? mentally illness is down played because you can't politicize it. Then you gotta fix the problem...

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 5:36 AM

2016-06-15T05:36:32-04:00

Response by SPC Deon Holmes made Jun 15 at 2016 7:13 AM

2016-06-15T07:13:18-04:00

The keywords in the second amendment are WELL REGULATED! But it is those two words that people who say they have a "right" to have weapons refused to talk about. I tend to think it means there must be oversight of who gets them, when they get them, when they can used them. It does not mean every tom, dick and jane gets to have one! So more guns is not the answer! The answer is to take them away from criminals, assholes with temper and mental problems, over emotional uncivilized unlearnt low class useless eaters.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jun 16 at 2016 12:03 AM

2016-06-16T00:03:59-04:00

I would rather talk about the morally ill. Something has happened with the moral foundation of our society to make some people think killing, wounding, or maiming is a morally acceptable solution to adversity.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jun 16 at 2016 9:36 AM

2016-06-16T09:36:45-04:00

This is a great question! I believe that the reason is cost.