Some military discharges mean no benefits after service ends. Is this fair?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Dec 2015 22:42:00 -0500

I couldn't get a link, so I had to post this entire story. From Military.com

ST. LOUIS -- No medical or mental health care. No subsidized college or work training. For many who leave the U.S. military with less-than-honorable discharges, including thousands who suffered injuries and anguish in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, standard veterans benefits are off limits.

The discharge serves as a scarlet letter of dishonor, and the effects can be severe: Ex-military members with mental health problems or post-traumatic stress disorder can't turn to Veterans Affairs hospitals or clinics; those who want to go to college aren't eligible for the GI Bill; the jobless get no assistance for career training; the homeless are excluded from vouchers.

"It's an indelible mark of their service that follows them for the rest of their lives into the workforce, through background checks, social relationships, and it precludes them from getting the kind of support that most veterans enjoy," said Phil Carter, an Iraq War vet and senior fellow at the Center for A New American Security.

The Department of Defense said of nearly 207,000 people who left the military last year, just 9 percent received what's referred to as "bad paper." Still, that's more than 18,000 people last year and more than 352,000 since 2000, Defense Department data shows.
U.S. Rep. Mike Coffman, a Colorado Republican who's on the House Armed Services Committee, believes many of those men and women suffered battle-related problems that affected their behavior, especially PTSD and traumatic brain injury. A 2005 study showed Marines deployed to combat who were diagnosed with PTSD were 11 times more likely to receive less-than-honorable discharges, said Brad Adams, an attorney who works with the San Francisco-based organization Swords to Plowshares.
Varying levels of bad paper discharges exist. A general discharge is for those whose service was generally satisfactory, but who engaged in minor misconduct or received non-judicial punishment. Recipients are usually eligible for VA medical and dental services, VA home loans and burial in national cemeteries, but can't receive educational benefits through the GI Bill.

Virtually no post-military benefits are available below that level.
An other-than-honorable discharge is an administrative action for those with behavior problems such as violence or use of illegal drugs. A bad conduct discharge is punishment for a military crime, and dishonorable discharges are for offenses such as murder or desertion. With those discharges, the VA doesn't consider the former service members veterans for the purposes of VA benefits.

"There is a small percentage of folks who were court-martialed and convicted, and they have earned their bad paper," Carter said. "The vast majority of this population was discharged administratively, generally because of some minor misconduct."
Maj. Ben Sakrisson, a Defense Department spokesman, said there is "substantial due process" for all cases where people receive a less-than-honorable discharge. Its statistics show that last year, 4,143 service members received other-than-honorable discharges, 637 received bad conduct discharges and 157 were dishonorably discharged.

Once people are discharged, the Department of Veterans Affairs can extend medical and mental health benefits on a case-by-case basis to those whose disabilities were service-connected, the VA said.
But Adams said that recourse is help to very few. "The onus is on the veteran," he said. "The standards have imposed a very high burden."
Josh Redmyer, 30, served in the Marines for seven years, including three stints in Iraq, where he watched a close friend die and developed PTSD. Redmyer said he developed alcohol and drug addictions that led to bad behavior, and he received an other-than-honorable discharge in 2012. He said he's survived suicide attempts and "near-death" overdoses.
Now living in California, Redmyer's working as a delivery driver and trying to restore his VA medical benefits. He said he takes responsibility for "mistake after mistake after mistake," but can't understand how someone who risked his life for his country can't get treatment for PTSD.
"What it did to my life after what I gave to them, I don't think it's ethical or moral or fair," he said.

Studies show those who are less-than-honorably discharged are far more likely to end up in prison than honorably discharged veterans, and more likely to be suicidal. Jobs are harder to get because background checks highlight an undesirable military discharge.
"They have a hard time maintaining employment and navigating the transition back to civilian life," said Jamison Fargo, associate professor of psychology at Utah State University.

An analysis published this fall in the Journal of the American Medical Association, which Fargo co-wrote, tracked nearly 450,000 VA patients who served in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2001 to 2011. While 5.6 percent had general discharges for misconduct, they accounted for 28.1 percent of those who'd been homeless within their first year out of the military. That didn't even take into account those with discharges that made them ineligible for VA care, and who were potentially more likely to be homeless.
Sakrisson said the Defense Department has made a "concerted effort" to assist those with PTSD who seek to have their discharge upgraded, through media campaigns, outreach to advocacy groups and military service organizations, even tracking down homeless ex-service members identified by the VA.
Coffman said a better approach would be for the military to work with troubled service members earlier, so more leave with honorable discharges.
And while being discharged for bad behavior might draw little sympathy, Adams said, "We're talking about people who have deployed multiple times, served in combat. That has to account for something."

Response by SN Greg Wright made Dec 29 at 2015 10:48 PM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 29 Dec 2015 22:48:36 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I know a guy who received an OTH, and he gets nothing. Deployed 2 times to the sandbox. I've never thought that was right. I know another guy who never deployed to the gulf, but gets benefits for gulf war syndrome. Pretty fucked up.

Response by Cpl Chad Perry made Dec 29 at 2015 10:52 PM

Cpl Chad Perry — Tue, 29 Dec 2015 22:52:08 -0500

I work at the VA and I have seen many veterans with other than honorable or bad conduct discharges be deemed "honorable for VA proposes" if their mental condition or head injury led to their misconduct. On the other hand, if the veteran is just a shit bird that deserted, had a pattern of misconduct, or was a drug/alcohol rehab failure there's not much hope. The laws are pretty cut and dry.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Dec 29 at 2015 11:27 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Tue, 29 Dec 2015 23:27:33 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member - Joe American slaps a "Support Our Troops" sticker on the family roadster. Maybe he wraps a yellow ribbon on the tree out front of his suburban home. But, when it comes to saving the coveted taxpayers dollars, that friendly nod to our fighting force is goes no further. As we enter the election year, any candidate that can show a billion dollars in savings is going to fare well in the polls. Being mindful of service-related issues that lead to bad behavior (PTSD), the American taxpayer really doesn't want to fund veterans who earned less than the Honorable discharge. The majority of constituents have never, currently don't, and will never empathize with service-related injuries & issues. It doesn't impact them. They don't care.

The Honorable Mr. Michael Coffman "gets it." But, he's a Marine. He'll continue to get my vote in Colorado's 6th District. Unfortunately, he's subject to election results... and will, accordingly, pander to his constituency.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 10:13 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:13:55 -0500

I believe firmly that on OTH, BCD, and DD should have real teeth. It takes real malfeasance to get one of these discharges.
Having said that, I also think commanders need to think long and hard about how they characterize service when a case such as this crosses their desk. That SSG with four deployments whose wife left him and he went out and got a DUI... did he screw up? Yes.
Should he pay the price? Yes.
Is it more than a little likely that this chain of events is related? Of course it is.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Dec 30 at 2015 12:56 PM

SSG Keith Cashion — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:56:02 -0500

I see Soldiers come through my office almost daily, that have been given the BCD, DD and the OTHs, and having looked at some of the packets that have to be approved for these discharges, they read in some cases like a crime novel. The approval for these are usually at the GO level and are rarely delegated down. I mean the rehab, or corrective action that has to be part of the separation packet is a lot. Are soldiers given second chances? Yes, and in some cases 3rd, 4th and 5th chances as well. Currently, the DAIG is investigating some of these cases going back as far as 2002 to see what was the reason, and how were the cases handled. The AAA is doing the same type of audit of Soldiers separated under the OTH to make sure that the cases were handled correctly. This was directed by the SECARMY to be completed. This has a lot to do with these Soldiers with PTSD and other medical issues that need to be addressed.

Commanders today, are having to really make sure that the Soldier they are separating involuntarily, meet the requirements of that separation.

Heck just to PCS from one station to another, the Soldiers have to be screened by Behavioral Health, ASAP and Social Work Services just to PCS. If there is an issue, these agencies have to make contact with their counter parts at the gaining installation so they have a heads up that the Soldier is coming. If they feel the Soldier cannot get the treatment at the New Duty Station, Soldier isn't leaving.

As bad as it sounds, the Army for it's part is trying to correct or fix a lot of broken systems when it comes to Physical and Mental well being of Soldiers being separated for what ever reason. No one said they were the fastest, but at least they are trying.

Half Nickel of the Day

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 1:01 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 13:01:06 -0500

As has been said, you have to work really hard and/or screw the pooch quite severely to get OTH, DD or BCD. I have known several guys who were either kicked out or denied reenlistment for various reasons (repeated PT failures, lack of drill/AT attendance, failure to adapt, etc) and none of them got anything other than Honorable or general (under honorable) discharges.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 30 at 2015 1:44 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 13:44:27 -0500

I think the mentally ill have not hurt anyone, they should be fenced off. Sometimes it comes to a point where one might not know what they are doing.

Response by PO3 Peter Carr made Dec 31 at 2015 12:37 PM

PO3 Peter Carr — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:37:44 -0500

I knew a truly exceptional sailor who was a natural leader, by this I mean he was supportive to those of lower or equal rank and respectful of higher ranking individuals. He also knew his rate/MOS extremely well. He had gained the attention of the CO on our air craft carrier. There are 5500 personnel on board while out to sea. This E-5 (in 3.5 years) made a poor choice and smoked pot, got caught and was immediately given an OTH discharge. I want to be clear that I am not defending what he did, but the fact is that one black mark on his record and he was then lumped in with all of the others who were given that same type of discharge, this hardly seems fair or moral. It seems to show a kick them to the curb attitude within the DOD, and now VA. We must stand up and fight for each other until all veterans who are wounded in body or mind can get proper treatment.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Apr 25 at 2016 9:11 PM

MGySgt James Forward — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:11:40 -0400

Yes, I do think that exceptions to the "Rule" should be made when a member has a war related injury. No brainer in my book. I would hope that these guys and gals could also get VA disability.

Response by SSG Robert White made Jun 2 at 2016 1:18 PM

SSG Robert White — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 13:18:15 -0400

If the person served at least a period where they received the good conduct medal, and/or if they served out their contract, they should as the board of corrections to grant a separate honorable discharge. Back in the day prior to the All Volunteer Military, the DoD gave out separate DD214's for every enlisted person who reenlisted. As for the same thing. If you didn't finish your term of service, but did receive a good conduct medal, then ask the Board of Corrections to amend your DD214 in Block 18 to show as a period of HONORABLE SERVICE for the period of the good conduct medal. All benefits come from periods of honorable service. If you tood the OTH discharge in lew of a CM, it will never get upgraded. If your asking for an upgrade, ask for a general discharge. All you lose is education benefits (unless you were discharged btwn 2003 and 7/1/2010). You can still get Voc Rehab and thus finish college.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 2 at 2016 8:06 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 20:06:53 -0400

In the vast majority of cases yes, truly fair. They EARNED what they received. Just like the majority EARNED the good conduct discharge they received.
That said, I have NO doubt there are a few, a statistically insignificant number, but still valid and critical if you're one of them,, a small amount of SM that actually had bad behaviour due to combat related PTSD, and received a OTH discharge, when there was a valid medical reason for the things you did inappropriate. The SM that was overwrought with survivor guilt, and smoking dope lessened that hurt, at least when he was high...He was discharged with an OTH...He should have been helped as long as possible, then MED Boarded. That SM that was always angry, could never say why. but frequently lost it with SM that out ranked him..on trivile tasks, missions, mistakes..... he was separated with an OTH and should have been helped and then MED boarded.

Response by TSgt Jim Gregg made Jun 2 at 2016 10:11 PM

TSgt Jim Gregg — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 22:11:35 -0400

I knew some who got injured in basic training who only got limited benefits. Blow out your knee should get you at VA medical for life as well as some service connected disability. But you have to have 24 continuous time in service to get healthcare and education benefits. Also if the service member was deployed to a war zone, I think that the military should discharge with a general discharge for all but the most criminal actions. Substance abuse happens to those who have problems assimilating back to stateside standards. Also the military has been an enabler to many veterans who ate now alcoholics!

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jun 3 at 2016 10:35 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Fri, 03 Jun 2016 10:35:37 -0400

Yes. Should someone with a less than honorable discharge get the same benefits as someone with a honorable.

Case in point I got a honorable and am broken. I get VA benefits. I know a guy who beat his wife almost to death and was DD'd with a 5 year confinement. He hurt his back in confinement should he get VA benefits?