Some people of different background cannot move up because of discrimination. Why is there so much politics in the Military?

2014-12-07T07:37:31-05:00

Response by LTC Jason Strickland made Dec 7 at 2014 8:24 AM

2014-12-07T08:24:22-05:00

We shouldn't have politics or discrimination in the military, SSG Private RallyPoint Member. Unfortunately, we do. I think everyone has to keep in mind - whether in the military, in business, or in life - "moving up" is very much about the relationships you build. Being polite and professional in your relationships usually endears you to those who make decisions about promotion.
Certainly there are exceptions to this perspective, but more often than not, it's your relationships with those around you that have the most impact.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Dec 7 at 2014 9:14 AM

2014-12-07T09:14:15-05:00

Your statement SSG Private RallyPoint Member indicates an acceptance of discrimination - I can't give you a blank check towards accepting that statement, I aint buying it.

Many times Soldiers that are in the "held back" category refuse to identify their own shortcomings, refuse to accept responsibility for weaknesses in training/education and often times lack the motivation to make themselves competitive amongst their peers. Does the Soldier often have a profile during field training exercises, when PT tests and ranges are scheduled? Is this the Soldier that gets sent to every military school just to get rid of them since they cannot get along with any of their peers? This is not always the case, but often times it is.

There is no policy out there that holds back people based on any ethnic, religious, racial or gender basis.

With that stated, I am sure there are some leaders with such bias towards an individual or group of people which is in line with your original post, when discrimination comes into play there are programs available to address it.

If you know someone in that situation, I'd recommend you asking them to share their training statuses with you, share their monthly/quarterly counseling with you and ensure that they are fulfilling their part and not just so quick to call themselves a victim.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 7 at 2014 9:24 AM

2014-12-07T09:24:27-05:00

All I have to do is look at the Chief's Group (E9) on base to know that people are not held back by thier background. They are "held back" or more accurately held at thier current level because they are not doing the things required to be promoted.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 10:09 AM

2014-12-07T10:09:57-05:00

I have yet to see this, but I will admit that I have heard it claimed. Usually it is by someone who is not performing at the level they should be or may even have some major deficiencies that they must correct (flagged for APFT, HT/WT, etc).

I would actually say that the military is one of the most transparent organizations when it comes to advancement and opportunities. In the case of NCO promotions, you know your points, how they are tabulated, and the cut-off scores for your MOS. It's fairly simple. When it comes to more nominative positions or opportunities, you often do not know the actual packet or background of those you are competing against. It's not based on anything that would be an EO complaint, but often performance, education, training, etc. It's hard for anyone to fake their way through a career in the Army, and many that complain are not putting in the work they should be. I have been guilty of this in the past as a junior enlisted, and I learned quickly that if I did the work that good things would happen.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 7 at 2014 10:15 AM

2014-12-07T10:15:05-05:00

Some people need to better frame their questions with more detail and evidence. "Controversial statement. Logically leaping controversial conclusion?" Is not enough for a proper conversation.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 7 at 2014 1:25 PM

2014-12-07T13:25:15-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I would have to echo some sentiments here:
I would start with, vague and inflammatory question, and move into the difficulties we all have in identifying our weaknesses/shortfalls.

Perfect example, of this is that at age of 49, I am back in school.....happy about it? Maybe, excited, yes because I will finish a long journey, but not happy about spending the money. But I realize that the lack of a degree is going to prevent me from promoting (civilian job) and that is all there is to it. Without it, not competitive. Corrective action is to get it.

I train all of my troops to put themselves into the category of being eligible for the next stripe. That way when promotions are available, I never have to hear "First Sergeant I didn't finish my .....so I am not eligible". Because if you have not prepared for the promotions by completing everything, I will look straight past you and move on.

When it comes to claims of discrimination. My advice to you is that you had better have some very hard proof before you go running around making those claims. You will have problems if they cannot be substantiated. And my saying that is not to be taken as there is no discrimination, I am sure that there is in one way shape or form, you just better be able to prove something that you allege.

Now, insofar as politics: whole nuther critter: sometimes (as was mentioned earlier on another post) success is dependent on relationships. Is that politics, sometimes. But to be successful in life, you have to be good at something, and build relationships. (kind of like being on RP). Anyone who does not think that relationships matter has missed the boat. You still have to be proficient at work. But if you are an ass and good at your job you will not be as successful as the guy who gets along, AND is good at his job.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 1:28 PM

2014-12-07T13:28:04-05:00

I have seen soldiers in this situation before. There are many reasons why soldiers get held back and race is not one of them. I have never seen anyone get promotion points based on their Race. I was enlisted in the National Guard and saw so many people complain about not getting promoted. They had every excuse in the book. Sometimes they felt race was one of them. I would ask them if he have read NGR 600-200. It is the reg on promotions in the National Guard. They would give me a blank look. I read it and made SSG with no issues. I knew what I had to do. I was the youngest SSG in my company for a while. I was about to get SFC but I went another route.

I would ask you. Have you read AR 600-8-19. If not you may not know why you are not why some are not promoting. It is easy to blame others but to know why the situation occurs takes true introspect.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2014 10:50 AM

2014-12-13T10:50:33-05:00

Thank you for your inputs I appreciate it. We'll it is not that I am "accusing" someone I just want to get some advise but actually it's true I have seen soldiers not doing their job but when their peers move up they have this mentality that their superiors forgot about them. Ive seen it already that those that don't work, being absent or hiding during work hours of course who wants to promote them.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Jun 3 at 2015 1:31 AM

2015-06-03T01:31:23-04:00

Hmmm