Spouses and Military Customs and Courtesies (This subject is getting really old)

LTC Scott O'Neil — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 09:34:13 -0500

I have seen this subject on RALLYPOINT several times now and would love to set the record straight. Spouses of service members DO NOT have the rank of their spousal service members. There is no requirement to salute them or render any military salutation. That being said, the terms Mam or Sir can be rendered to Senior Officer and Non- Commissioned Officers spouses as a sign of respect for their age, spouse’s grade or position. Spouses who use their Services Members Rank to gain privileges or try to want military recognition soul be required to go to a Customs and Courtesy Class and be accompanied by their service member on a Saturday Morning. This subject angers me as much as those questions like does a PVT (E-1 or 2)stand at parade rest when talking to a SPC (E-4) or do you salute an officer’s spouse or does a Second Lieutenant salute and First Lieutenant. Have Customs and Courtesies become a forgotten course in Officer Basic Courses and Basic Training?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 10:59 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 10:59:47 -0500

Good post, sir. I would say that one of two things is at play here: Either (1) customs and courtesies really are a forgotten item in the training of new personnel, or (2) people are just having fun on RallyPoint by raising these ridiculous scenarios (such as a spouse "having" the same rank as his/her military spouse).

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 11:13 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 11:13:46 -0500

My wife will explicitly tell someone "Don't call me Mrs Chief, I'm Mrs. Walker. My husband is in the service, I am not."

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 5 at 2015 11:29 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 11:29:45 -0500

My wife is usually called "Copeland's Wife"

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Jan 5 at 2015 1:13 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 13:13:14 -0500

From 1981-1983, I was stationed in Baumholder, West Germany. The brigade commander, Col Waller, was an excellent commander; however, his wife was said to "wear his rank". Back in the day of payday activities, we had one bank in Baumholder and it was an American Express. Needless to say, the line was very long on payday to put money in the bank. However, Ms. Waller was known to walk in the front door and go straight to the front of the line. Word must have gotten back to the Colonel though. One payday, while he was standing in line, she walked in and did her thing. He went up to the front, took her by the arm, whispered something in her ear, and then they both returned to the back of line. Responses ranged from applause by civilians to gasps by those of us in uniform who were waiting for something bad to happen. It was awkward at the time, but most of us laughed when we left the bank.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Jan 5 at 2015 1:15 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 13:15:04 -0500

Also, I believe you're right on the money with the lack of customs and courtesy in the Army today. I was going to Fort Campbell for several years after I retired to get my taxes done for free. Over time, the atmosphere and professionalism went downhill. The NCOIC (I use that term loosely) would sit back with his feet on the desk, the troops showed no form of discipline, the place was dirty, and the latrine hadn't been cleaned in a long time. We haven't been back on post in a couple of years. It's embarrassing for me.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 1:28 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 13:28:55 -0500

I'm out of thumbs and owe you one on reload. Very well stated LTC Scott O'Neil and I agree wholeheartedly. And Yes the subject is getting really old. In my personal opinion we shouldn't have to explain this to servicemembers but as recent threads have sadly shown, I guess we do.
As a former Army spouse, yes I held down the fort during his deployments and trainings but that never entitled me to the privileges of his rank. He earned it not I.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jan 5 at 2015 3:09 PM

SGT William Howell — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 15:09:20 -0500

I think that MPs understand this more than anybody else. As a shift supervisor the majority of the complaints came from spouses. Things like, "The MP was rude" and "He did not respect my husbands rank." (Yes it was always from wives.) I had to investigate each of these and it was for the most part somebody trying to pull their spouses rank on my patrol guys. For the most part my guys did a good job of staying professional. I actually had a Captain's wife try to put one of my MPs at parade rest. That one ended with the Captain on the Provost Marshal's carpet and him telling him that he better get his wife in check or she would not longer be welcome on post.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jan 5 at 2015 5:21 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 17:21:22 -0500

LTC Scott O'Neil, Sir you know when you have a great one in your organization, it's when they are using their experience (not their service members influence) to take care of that young couple.

It is (and should always be) about taking care of our own. Our senior spouses have a lot of experience and have been through the struggles. Often times, our spouses are the sounding board to let us know the perspective that we would not have considered otherwise.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 7:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 07:54:05 -0500

I will respond to this, because SSG P, B callled me out. They only get the very basic of lessons. Mainly scenarios, but it's only about an hour or so block of instruction. It's difficult, but not impossible.

They really stopped focusing on DNC and Custom and courtesies during the past couple decades due to the operations. They are slowly getting back into it but training to standard and training to time is one of the major problems in BCT. I'm not making excuses, just talking real.

I didn't know alot until I was actually in DS School. I knew of a few, but that was it. I still remember my Navy stuff, there was really no influence of Army when I went through BCT in 2011.

I really can't say much about dependants wearing rank, I've really not encountered it but only heard of it. I do encounter retired servicemembers in civilian positions still wearing rank. That bothers me more than dependants. Since this discussion, I've made a personal and professional goal to push more on C/C in my training.

Response by SPC Susan Brown made Jan 6 at 2015 8:20 AM

SPC Susan Brown — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 08:20:16 -0500

This is the funniest thing I've read. I'm a vet but also a military spouse. I always find it amusing when these spouses want to throw their husbands rank out there like they earned it themselves. Unless you have signed your name on the dotted line, writing that blank check up to and including your life, stop acting like a key you earned anything. I earned my own rank and wrote that check. These women need a class on what their "job title" actually is.

Response by LTC David Stender made Jun 22 at 2015 6:54 AM

LTC David Stender — Mon, 22 Jun 2015 06:54:16 -0400

One thing I always discussed w/ my wife was that she could be as much or as little evolved as she wanted. She never wore my rank and didn't try to speak for me. She got evolved where she was needed and would more likely have a young SGT's wife over than one of the officer spouses. I think that's the way to go.