Standing in class a sign of disrespect?

2014-09-21T07:34:16-04:00

So I have been thinking about posting this question/discussion ever since I joined this community. A few years ago I was sitting in a Sergeants time training when I was suddenly attacked by the Z monster. Instead of submitting to this beast I decided to stand up and stand in the back of the class. After the class, I was approached by the class instructor and was informed in a harsh manner that standing is a sign of disrespect and I should have the discipline to stay awake.

While I sort of agree with him, I had always been under the impression, that if you are tired in class stand up because sleep is akin to slapping the instructor in the face. The stand up rule has been repeated in nearly every professional development course I have attended. I want to see what the community has to say about this topic.

Note: I did not unintentionally make any disrespect sighs or movements when I was standing. The sole issue was the fact that I stood.

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Sep 21 at 2014 7:38 AM

2014-09-21T07:38:55-04:00

I see the instructors point but i don't think it is valid.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Sep 21 at 2014 7:58 AM

2014-09-21T07:58:33-04:00

you were right he was wrong.

Response by LT Jessica Kellogg made Sep 21 at 2014 8:08 AM

2014-09-21T08:08:40-04:00

I would think instructors would be more concerned if you're getting the information than if you're siting or standing

Response by SGT Richard H. made Sep 21 at 2014 8:48 AM

2014-09-21T08:48:57-04:00

I think he needs to get over himself. His reaction is probably because it happens to him a lot. Just a guess.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Sep 21 at 2014 8:48 AM

2014-09-21T08:48:56-04:00

Put it this way SFC Private RallyPoint Member , at least you had the discipline to stand up and continue to learn the discussion going on in class. You didn't wait for someone to call you out and get caught dozing off. That is what has been taught for so long in every school and continues to this day. I can see how this may irritate an instructor however, being fatigued happens and standing up is one effective way proven to battle it.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Sep 21 at 2014 9:23 AM

2014-09-21T09:23:45-04:00

I teach a lot of classes on a variety of subjects. If you have people falling asleep in your class one of 2 things is happening. Either they are just really tired or you suck as an instructor and can't keep them motivated. One leads to a student every once in while standing up or nodding off, the other is completely your fault as an instructor.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 9:50 AM

2014-09-21T09:50:24-04:00

One should: have the discipline to ensure one gets the appropriate ammount of sleep per night so as not be fatigued the following day.
fighting against the Z monster with no weapons to fight with is a losing battle. Discipline or none.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 9:57 AM

2014-09-21T09:57:55-04:00

The Z Monster. I haven't heard that in years.

The rule was always stand up if you felt tired. It never meant an instructor that felt disrespected, and I imagine actually falling asleep would be worse.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 10:00 AM

2014-09-21T10:00:27-04:00

No, it is not disrespectful to stand up if you are tired. I agree with SFC Private RallyPoint Member's and CPT Jacob Swartout's comment. It is incumbent on each person to get the necessary good sleep in order to repair one's body but also to function properly the next day. I also agree with TSgt Joshua Copeland's comment on why a student may be "falling asleep". It is the student's fault if they did not receive the proper amount of rest but if the instructor is monotone, boring, or dull then it's the instructor's fault for the student's attention wandering.

It would be better for a person to have the fortitude and responsibility to stand up and continue listening instead of falling asleep and truly disrespecting the instructor and the class. Not to mention the person wouldn't be learning anything. Simple.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Sep 21 at 2014 10:01 AM

2014-09-21T10:01:19-04:00

As a Soldier, for the entirety of my career, it was told to me that if you feel as though you are falling asleep, that you need to have the discipline to stand up and either move to the rear of the class or to stand along the side wall. As an instructor this was one thing that was briefed to students at the beginning of the course/class and I would never have jumped on someone about standing up when the class was done. I might have poked fun at them in a joking manner or told them good job even, but I wouldn't have reacted like a "Richard Cranium".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 10:02 AM

2014-09-21T10:02:33-04:00

Personally, I don't see it as a sign of disrespect if you're standing less than 5 mins. If it's more than 5 mins.....then it becomes a discipline problem. Just my opinion.

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Sep 21 at 2014 10:07 AM

2014-09-21T10:07:06-04:00

Instructors should encourage standing as a way to combat sleepiness. It is a common technique taught in instructor development schools.

Response by LTC Hillary Luton made Sep 21 at 2014 10:26 AM

2014-09-21T10:26:30-04:00

Actually, I was always taught the same as you, that it is actually disrespectful NOT to stand when your sleepy. The instructor needs to take into consideration that sleepiness could be for a hundred different reasons. It doesn't necessarily mean the instructor is boring.

Sounds to me like the instructor is a little self-conscious about their teaching ability. If that's the case, maybe he should work on his presentation skills instead of assuming he can maintain the attention of his audience no matter how bad his teaching is.

I wonder what he would say if you stood because you had a bad back and standing was the only way you could relieve the pain.

Response by PO3 Shaun Taylor made Sep 21 at 2014 10:26 AM

2014-09-21T10:26:55-04:00

I think he should've been appreciative of the fact that you took the initiative to stand up on your own.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Sep 21 at 2014 10:33 AM

2014-09-21T10:33:32-04:00

in my career i had an opportunity to be an oc/t (observer-controller-trainer)
for troops going to iraq and afghanistan when i returned from iraq in 05...
most of the training was hands on but we did have class room instruction and
the troops would fall asleep especially after the noon chow...we told them to stand in the back if they were tired we had no problem with that also when ever i was in a training enviornment myself it was ok in all 4 branches that i served in to stand and go to the back of the room it had no disrespect stigma to it at alllll........

Response by MSG Steven Werner made Sep 21 at 2014 10:51 AM

2014-09-21T10:51:07-04:00

I think that instructor needs ot get a life. I remember many instructors tell us to stand up if we were tired; none that said standing was a sign of disrespect. Obviously, if you stand, you should move to the rear of the class so as to not block anyone's view of the instructor.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 10:58 AM

2014-09-21T10:58:03-04:00

The class instructor was being a you know what. Because in every Army class, that's briefed before the class has even started. You weren't in the wrong, you did the right thing.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Sep 21 at 2014 11:14 AM

2014-09-21T11:14:35-04:00

The instructor was both 1) in the wrong and 2) a tool.

He was wrong because by custom, at least in the Army, for at least the entire length of my career and that of any of my mentors, the STATED expectation has been that if you are too tired to focus, or think you are going to fall asleep, you are EXPECTED to stand. (Incidentally, this has a practical effect in large classes of letting the instructor know when he/she is losing people.) If he was indeed an NCO who had been in the Army a non-zero number of days, he knew this.

He was a tool because A) "you should have the discipline to sit still and not fall asleep while I drone on" Seriously? GTF over yourself. and B) Making an issue of something that didn't disrupt the class.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 11:33 AM

2014-09-21T11:33:57-04:00

That's like saying leaving class to take a dump is disrespectful. Would the right thing be to go right there in the class?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 11:54 AM

2014-09-21T11:54:56-04:00

Seems to make sense. If you want to make a point you should be able to stand up for what you say (literally and figuratively). As for questions, if you have a question you are probably not the only person confused, so it shows thats you are motivated enough to correct yourself and others

Response by Cpl William Moon made Sep 21 at 2014 12:01 PM

2014-09-21T12:01:06-04:00

We were always taught to stand in the back of the class if you felt you were falling asleep. I was even berated once by a 1stSgt for trying to get a rock, yes, a rock, out of my eye during a debrief after a field exercise because he thought I was falling asleep.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 12:17 PM

2014-09-21T12:17:15-04:00

You did exactly what you should have done, and exactly what you had learned to do over the years. This is a common, although unwritten, rule and anyone who would argue that it was disrespectful quite simply doesn't know what he or she is talking about. You still did the right thing by taking the correction and asking the question and advice of others afterward. Should you find yourself in the same situation again, you should take the same action.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 12:20 PM

2014-09-21T12:20:13-04:00

I'm tempted to mark "I don't know as I am never tired", but I'd be the biggest military hypocrite of them all. And for all who marked it, you'll be the first ones to get shot by anti-zombie police ;-)

Response by LTC William Lee Jr made Sep 21 at 2014 12:20 PM

2014-09-21T12:20:53-04:00

Being a former ILE/CGSC instructor I preferred my students to stand and move to the back of the class, for whatever reason. To me it would be more disrespectful if a student fell asleep at his/her desk rather than stand up and move to the side/back of the classroom.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 12:23 PM

2014-09-21T12:23:53-04:00

Sleeping in class is disrespectful.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 12:32 PM

2014-09-21T12:32:19-04:00

Sounds like "someone" didnt get his/her bowl full of Kellogg EgoFlakes that morning.

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Sep 21 at 2014 12:35 PM

2014-09-21T12:35:35-04:00

I guess he never heard the saying "ON YOUR FEET!". This instructor needs to realize that you can only talk for so long before people start to doze off. I f it is not break time yet then stop talking and have everyone stand and stretch for a minute or two. Standing is NOT a sign of disrespect but a sign of respect by showing them that you would rather stand than fall a sleep on them.

Response by MSgt Roger Lalik made Sep 21 at 2014 12:48 PM

2014-09-21T12:48:41-04:00

Correct thing to do.

Response by MSG Tim Cates made Sep 21 at 2014 12:49 PM

2014-09-21T12:49:17-04:00

Standing in the back is the correct thing to do and a time honored alternative to sleeping at your desk. Regardless of how "GREAT" an instructor one may view themselves (hint), soldiers do have bad days and the material is not what most of us consider "entertaining'. Certainly not enough so to fight off the bodies response to hours of what many consider Chinese Water Torture !! As an instructor among many other things including being a student during my career, I dealt with it in the same manner both in the seat and the podium. NOW...with that said if the need to keep the entire class awake on a bad day due to the "boring material" of course , I would induce the "I'm a little teapot" song. After the first soldier sang with animation in front of the class all remaining solders were not only very much awake but paying attention.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 1:12 PM

2014-09-21T13:12:41-04:00

In every classroom and briefing that I've been in we've been told to stand up if we feel like we're going to fall asleep. These days it seems like most instructors know that the material they're speaking on is dry and boring. More times than not they say "I know this is boring, but we've got to do it so bear with me."

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Sep 21 at 2014 1:20 PM

2014-09-21T13:20:55-04:00

I tend to stand while I brief as well because I am less likely to put myself to sleep that way.

I am one of those "learn by doing" type of people, and having me sit there and listen (or worse, being powerpointed) will be the quickest way to put me to sleep. I might considering having someone brief me a powerpoint if I get another bout of insomnia in the future.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 21 at 2014 2:35 PM

2014-09-21T14:35:36-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member Sometimes that is a no win scenario, but to call someone out on it is a no-go. I start out all my classes with the rules of the classroom. Exit locations, rally points for fire drills, eating/drinking policy, questions held until after the presentation is made, sign in log, and always.......Z-Monster defense. We had to cover all that "good stuff" going through ITC/SGITC. Sometimes our timing is off and we get up at a time that is not appropriate. It is what it is.....

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Sep 21 at 2014 2:39 PM

2014-09-21T14:39:32-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I've been taught, since I enlisted, that standing at the back of class is the appropriate thing to do. Sure, in a perfect world, discipline would prevail and we would be able to mentally force our bodies awake. But, given that's not the case, did the instructor legitimately believe that it would have been better of you to actually fall asleep? It seems to me, too, that taking the responsibility to do what you needed to do in order to stay awake in a non-disruptive manner is, in and of itself, a sign that you are mature and disciplined.

I would also tend to agree with others who have said that perhaps the instructor was offended because it happens to him frequently. Maybe he ought to look at his teaching techniques.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Sep 21 at 2014 3:42 PM

2014-09-21T15:42:56-04:00

There is something seriously wrong with your instructor. Every single instructor I have had, be it enlisted or officer, has repeatedly stated "if you get tired stand at the back". This goes from OCS, TBS and MOS school. They would actively call people out and order them to go stand at the back.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 3:43 PM

2014-09-21T15:43:47-04:00

I would rather the person stand up than to fall asleep. In fact I think it shows more respect for me as an instructor if the person does stand up! It lets me know that I am losing the class and need to change things up to keep students engaged.

People fall asleep for many reasons. Sickness, heavy work load, or the class is boring. It's not just about laziness. It's actually lazy to assume.

As instructors we need to find creative ways to keep people engaged. A one hour powerpoint class will make most people fall asleep. There are many ways to keep people up other than griping and having people do push-ups. Practical exercises, hands-on, asking questions, and an active environment all help.

If people are falling asleep, we need to first consider why and not be so arrogant to believe it is the fault of the student instead of the boring class we put together.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 3:47 PM

2014-09-21T15:47:03-04:00

Did this instructor never go to Basic Training? We were taught to stand in the back of the room if we felt as though we were going to nod off.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 21 at 2014 4:07 PM

2014-09-21T16:07:45-04:00

Quite common at USAFA.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 4:16 PM

2014-09-21T16:16:50-04:00

I was always instructed that if I was getting tired in a class it is better to stand up and not sleep. I think this said instructor maybe full of himself. Human physiology and sleep are not necessarily a discipline issue.

The only time I would try to fight it is if I am in a staff briefing, especially with an O6 or and definitely a GO. I saw a GO light up an O5 in the back office for dozing on him. Granted the O5 had just come off of midnight shift op suping we are all made to attend after work to hear a briefing from a 2 star. In academic environment I would say it fair game.

Response by SPC Brian Aranda made Sep 21 at 2014 4:33 PM

2014-09-21T16:33:12-04:00

He probably felt your need to stand up to stay awake was a direct insult to his ability to make the class interesting.

BASIC TRAINING STORY TIME!!
I was going through instruction on proper protocol and pronunciation on the radio. Now, everyone knows that you always get enough sleep in basic/boot, right? And the radio class is just so riveting, that you pay attention with every fiber of your being, right? Well...some of my fibers disagreed and convinced the rest to go to sleep.
The instructor noticed and was soon standing over me (we were seated on the ground, as the class was outside) and sternly telling me to stand up. I beat all records for getting up and hitting parade rest. The instructor looked at me and requested that I tell him what information he had just covered. I managed to repeat almost word for word the lesson! He looked at me and nodded slowly while saying "Alright, go back to sleep.", I managed to avoid major loss of posterior through some miracle of subconscious learning. That was also the one and only time I let myself fall asleep in class.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 4:34 PM

2014-09-21T16:34:27-04:00

Though standing up in Boot Camp would never, ever under any circumstance be tolerated, at least USMC Boot Camp; once outside of that venue, I have found it accepted practice. What is unknown by the instructor is why you may be standing up. Perhaps you have a broken coccyx which inflames and require that you do not use extended sitting. Perhaps there is a history of narcolepsy. Perhaps you were up all night with a sick child. The why is not important, they staying awake is. Any instructor who is so full of themselves as to think they are so riveting they could keep the dead attentive in their class is delusion. Instructors such as that need to be counseled on how to instruct. I have been training for more than 30 years. I trained in the forest service, Military, and every civilian job I have been in. In that time, I have had exactly 1 person fall asleep in my class and it was a provider. That instance I found was because they had partied all night and were hung over. Nothing you can do about that, would standing have helped, do not know, but I have had countless people stand up move to the back and pass my tests.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 4:49 PM

2014-09-21T16:49:26-04:00

I can not recall in my memory bank, being a student in any military training class or course where the instructor did not say, "If you find yourself falling asleep, don't make me embarrass you by calling you out, stand up and move to the back of the class!"

Sergeant "Moron" was an idiot!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 4:53 PM

2014-09-21T16:53:54-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member. In my opinion, having taught many courses over a great many decades, what you did was respectful, outstanding, and professional . . . particularly so if you explained you were standing to pay attention in class. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by Sgt Erle Mutz made Sep 21 at 2014 5:06 PM

2014-09-21T17:06:45-04:00

I agree with you all - standing up is a sign of "common sense" and respect for the instructor (by NOT FALLING ASLEEP-in his class). Duhhh!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 5:14 PM

2014-09-21T17:14:40-04:00

It is a sign of respect to stand, and disrespect to fall asleep.

It is the INSTRUCTOR'S job to keep the students engaged (ABIC-Army Basic Instructor Course- teaches this). If the instructor is unable to do that then he/she should not be on the podium.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 5:18 PM

2014-09-21T17:18:47-04:00

Now here's the other side of it. I am an instructor, and recently a student approached me and thanked me for teaching the way I do, because I was the only instructor he had encountered who was able to keep him awake (he had many encounters with the student NCOIC of the class prior to coming to my block of instruction over falling asleep in class and discipline to stay alert).

I looked back at how the student acted in class. He constantly slouched and leaned back, allowing him to fall asleep. So in this case I think it may have been disrespectful on the student's part. Of course every time he stood up in class was because he was being told to...

Response by PO1 Jotham Anderson made Sep 21 at 2014 5:49 PM

2014-09-21T17:49:36-04:00

Many times in my career, the courses of instruction was pretty dry and always was and encouraged others to stand.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 21 at 2014 6:06 PM

2014-09-21T18:06:22-04:00

Falling asleep is a sign of disrespect. Look sometimes the class material is just boring, it doesn't matter if Jim Carey presents it, you are not going to be able to not get drowsy. For example I gave class on the way the DOD organizes lot numbers on the Ammunition. Discipline is accomplishing the goal against your most basic physical instincts, by standing up you are showing discipline by accomplished the task against your physical wishes. The instructor I believe was wrong on this subject.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 21 at 2014 8:52 PM

2014-09-21T20:52:12-04:00

You showed the proper discipline by standing up and moving to the back of the room to stay awake. Unless I slept through it, I don't remember the class on "staying awake discipline" in basic or OBC. You did good!

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 9:07 PM

2014-09-21T21:07:11-04:00

I mark "nothing wrong with it" but there is something wrong with that, but it's not on the students. A proper presentation should find ways to keep the audience involved. Military or not, we're all people. If an instructor is putting students to sleep, standing or not, how often is that info actually retained? More often than not, it isn't simply because all you are focusing on is staying awake vs fully pulling in and keeping that knowledge. No offense to anyone that starts to zonk out during a presentation, it happens to all of us.

Response by SPC Darin Taylor made Sep 21 at 2014 9:19 PM

2014-09-21T21:19:55-04:00

In my opinion it would be disrespectful to stay seated and fall asleep. Taking the initiative to stand up and give the instructor his full attention was the right thing to do. I have attended training classes where the instructor would have the class stand and do calisthenics if he or she noticed the students were getting tired.

Response by SPC Christopher Buckalew made Sep 21 at 2014 9:57 PM

2014-09-21T21:57:02-04:00

I also stand in these situations, I've had people complain that it is a distraction. I explain that me snoring will be even more of a distraction. I also explain that I'm a disabled vet and that sometimes I have to stand up due to knee, hip, and back pain. That generally does the trick.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 10:00 PM

2014-09-21T22:00:02-04:00

I'm not sure where this instructor was trained but he/she is dead wrong. It would be more disrespectful to just sleep in place.

Response by SSG Harper Peterson made Sep 21 at 2014 10:06 PM

2014-09-21T22:06:15-04:00

As an NCO, you know your limitations. Being tired and avoiding falling asleep in a class, meeting, etc standing up helps to fight the urge quite a bit. Disrespect would have been falling asleep, or in your class instructors response he was disrespectful and showed a serious lack of leadership for lecturing your for taking initiative to stay awake.

A Leader does what it takes. Keep standing up if need be. Of course, get some sleep, manage your time necessary to be able to stay awake. Be the Leader you want other to want to follow.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Sep 21 at 2014 11:25 PM

2014-09-21T23:25:16-04:00

I have never heard of it being a sign of disrespect? So trying to stay awake is disrespectful to this instructor? I guess, some instructors need to work on their presentation so people are not falling asleep?

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 11:52 PM

2014-09-21T23:52:34-04:00

Honestly, this is the first time I've ever heard of standing to stay awake being disrespectful. At RTC, we were always taught that if you're tired or falling asleep, you stand up. It's rude to sleep when someone else is talking (Lord knows I've been guilty of this more than once).

Response by PFC Frank Mazza made Sep 22 at 2014 12:43 AM

2014-09-22T00:43:16-04:00

while I think the standing in the back or side of room is appropriate to stay awake during instruction....and works while not being disrespectfull to the instructor.....This site needs a little modification to the navigation protocols....it took me forever to get to the bottom of this article in order to post my comment rather than post specific to another persons response ... while I do not agree with the comment above mine....I need a way to post to the entirety of the article...not just one persons view....TY

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 4:26 AM

2014-09-22T04:26:34-04:00

The only reason it is disrespectful is because from the point of view of the instructor (not knowing anything about you, which is how many make our judgments of observation-only natural) you are completely finding the material to be dull and dis-interesting and therefore, not something that would enhance your interest to keep you awake. Someone with an understanding of why or even how humans have problems staying awake would understand that it hAs nothing to do with the material being presented but more of an inability to control plate factors that lead to the z monster attacking. For example, you had a 23 mile long ruck march the night before and had 3 hours of sleep and then had to attend the class that morning. But humans are not interested in what your prior engagements were before a class. They care that you pay attention and stay awake. So as I stated before, from the instructors point of view, yes, it is disrespectful and your discipline has failed. But I will add that if you were irresponsible the night before (partied, drank etc.) then you're double killing it. That is, you are 10 times more disrespectful, but only you would know that your irresponsible actions contributed to your falling asleep and thus re-enforced the fact that you are disrespecting the instructor. There is nothing wrong with standing up, but keep in mind what I mentioned before, if you know you were lolly gagging the night before then you're even more wrong, but if you weren't, then you shouldn't feel bad about standing up. Just brush it off. The instructor only sees their side. Develop yourself from this and you will be better at staying awake as you progress in your career from these understanding.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 5:17 AM

2014-09-22T05:17:44-04:00

I think standing up and moving to the back to not fall asleep is a sign of respect to the instructor. I would rather have 10 people standing than 10 people sleeping. At the same time I would need to analyze my teaching techniques to ensure the problem isn't me.

Response by SFC William "Bill" Moore made Sep 22 at 2014 7:12 AM

2014-09-22T07:12:54-04:00

I have given many briefings and classes. Some of the material was dry and boring, even for me, I would understand the audience standing! If I was presenting something that should have held their attention and some start standing, then it is my presentation, not disrespect.
From the time you enter the military, you are told to stand when you want to sleep in class. He needs to get over himself and recognize that you stood to receive the rest of his class instead of snoring.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 8:23 AM

2014-09-22T08:23:22-04:00

Falling asleep is a sign of disrespect. Standing shows one has the common sense and decency to do whatever is necessary to stay awake. I will never fault a Soldier for standing if I am teaching. In fact, I appreciate it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 9:57 AM

2014-09-22T09:57:23-04:00

As both a former military instructor, and a college professor, I don't find it rude or unprofessional to stand up. People, no matter how much sleep they get, will fall asleep in class. That's just life. That could mean the instructor is boring or the subject is boring. As a professional instructor, sometimes you have to make boring subjects interesting.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 11:09 AM

2014-09-22T11:09:49-04:00

It is more likely a sign of poor (at least boring) instruction than disrespect on the part of the student.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Sep 22 at 2014 11:19 AM

2014-09-22T11:19:33-04:00

Honestly, it would have been disresectful to fall asleep in the class. At least you were taking preventative measures so that didn't happen. That instructor needs to get over it.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 11:27 AM

2014-09-22T11:27:24-04:00

I do not see anything wrong with standing up in class, nor do I see it being disrespectful if you are tired. I do instruct classes and I would rather see them standing up than bobbing their heads while I am teaching.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Sep 22 at 2014 11:39 AM

2014-09-22T11:39:42-04:00

I wonder what solution will please the 4% that find it disrespectful. Its not like the guy stood up right where he was sitting, or stood up and went to the front of the class. He stood up and went to the back. Some people just can't be pleased. But I'm seriously hoping someone will explain how they see that as disrespectful.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 11:58 AM

2014-09-22T11:58:25-04:00

Since I hardly get enough sleep most nights, I am not sure why someone is offended that I am standing in the back of their class to keep from falling asleep... The body can only take so much keeping still and listening to someone talk to them all day, even when you had a full night of sleep.... I would think that they'd rather have me pay attention and learn something than sleep. The most sleep I get consciously is when I have to be in a conference/military school, becuase I know that the z monster is lurking whenever I am sitted in one spot and not moving/speaking very much...

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Sep 22 at 2014 12:22 PM

2014-09-22T12:22:35-04:00

As a very young Student I was told that if i was tired to get up and stand in the back of the class if i was ever tired and felt sleepy. Our classes were in rooms that were not air conditioned and over heated in winter and super hot in summer so, it was always a fight to stay awake. We even had one kid who sat in an open window and fell asleep and fell out. Lucky for him we were on the ground floor and he fell into snow.

As an Instructor over the years I was never upset when my students stood and went to the back of the class, I did have to reevaluate what was going on in class and sometimes change the LP, but never worried about the student being disrespectful.

Powerpoint is a great tool, if used correctly. Never for more than 5 or at most 10 minutes at a time. If it was used to long, even I would be asleep.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 2:26 PM

2014-09-22T14:26:42-04:00

You should tell that instructor to demonstrate how to be disciplined and stay awake while listening to a boring class on (pick your favorite Army Powerpoint class, the list is endless)

Response by SSG Michael Hathaway made Sep 22 at 2014 4:44 PM

2014-09-22T16:44:17-04:00

I would rather have someone stand in the classes I teach versus falling asleep. Though, I did have a talented individual once fall asleep standing up and almost face planted in the middle of a block of instruction.

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Sep 22 at 2014 4:50 PM

2014-09-22T16:50:52-04:00

I think it is a sign of respect that you are interested enough to try to stay awake and that you respect the person lecturing enough not to fall asleep in your seat. I have done it and so have many others I know (stood up I mean)

Response by MSgt Dennis Dudley made Sep 22 at 2014 4:59 PM

2014-09-22T16:59:05-04:00

It is not disrespectful, have done it many times myself and this includes meetings. Some topics, instructors or presenter lend to making people doze. There is also the time of day, and several other factors. A person standing up in my class "tells" me the material can be boring, I need to pick up the speed, etc. It also suggests that they care enough about it, not to want to miss anything. While taking technical training classes in the afternoons at Keesler airplane patch, I have had the tendency to want to doze. Stood up, stayed quiet and followed the material from back of the room.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 5:55 PM

2014-09-22T17:55:26-04:00

I think that someone exercising some self-discipline and standing up and moving to either the side or back of the class without disruption is a sign of respect not the inverse.

I would much rather have someone stand than to fall asleep.

Response by MSG Reid Stone made Sep 22 at 2014 5:58 PM

2014-09-22T17:58:47-04:00

Have to wonder if the MSG instructor is reading these responses! Seems no matter the branch of service or how long ago, for me Basic Training was at Fort Ord 1974, we were all told the same by leadership at the time...stand up and continue paying attention rather than fall asleep.

Response by SFC Walter Wilson made Sep 22 at 2014 7:05 PM

2014-09-22T19:05:40-04:00

AS an AIT instructor we tell the Soldiers to stand if they are falling asleep. I'd rather you stand and learn then fall asleep and waste my time.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2014 7:59 PM

2014-09-22T19:59:13-04:00

In every seminar and training lecture we do at my command, we are always informed at the start to stand up if we feel tired. Our chain of command knows how hard we work and how exhausted we can get and they always encourage us to keep ourselves awake with our own sense of self-discipline; it's much better if we stand ourselves up instead of falling asleep and humiliating ourselves when the instructor or MAA has to stand ups up instead.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 made Sep 22 at 2014 9:05 PM

2014-09-22T21:05:38-04:00

Standing after being drowsey is time honored and CLASSIC! It is just like putting chewing gum in your ear! I would have chosen to stand in the rear rather having 'cadre' hit my helmet liner with a swagger stick!

Response by MAJ Bill Darling made Sep 22 at 2014 10:59 PM

2014-09-22T22:59:05-04:00

In BCT and all of my officer courses, instructors insisted upon it.

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Sep 23 at 2014 6:33 AM

2014-09-23T06:33:10-04:00

Well then that sergeant clearly has an over-inflated ego if he thinks that was disrespectful. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Would he rather you focus all your energy on staying awake and not paying attention?

Response by 1SG Chris Brown made Sep 23 at 2014 10:14 AM

2014-09-23T10:14:20-04:00

You're just going to have to accept the fact that some people are a--holes and move on. I wouldn't worry much about it myself and just chalk it up to someone on a power trip. I'm sure you've seen plenty of examples of that, and will likely see many more, in your career.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 11:30 AM

2014-09-23T11:30:56-04:00

We all have gone through death by powerpoint and honestly it is very boring. I love the interaction and hands on training which I believe is effective and has been that way

Response by CH (MAJ) Thomas Conner made Sep 23 at 2014 11:45 AM

2014-09-23T11:45:27-04:00

The instructor probably took it that his presentation was boring, and it probably was! One or three people standing is not a problem, half of the class standing probably means I need to change my lesson plan!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 1:00 PM

2014-09-23T13:00:29-04:00

That instructor was a tool. Falling asleep is something physical, and you took action to combat it. That in itself is a sign of respect to the instructor.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 1:58 PM

2014-09-23T13:58:06-04:00

It is more disrespectful to fall asleep right in front of them. Standing up shows that while you may be tired you respect the instructor enough to want to pay attention and stay awake.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 2:45 PM

2014-09-23T14:45:06-04:00

I see nothing wrong with it. The only suggestion I would have is if you are in another class, ask the instructor if they would mind you doing that before they start. At least that way, you won't get attacked at the end.

Response by WO1(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 4:16 PM

2014-09-23T16:16:42-04:00

I think that if you stand up you are showing that you are at least trying to pay attention to what is being taught.

Response by MSgt John Parsons made Sep 23 at 2014 5:05 PM

2014-09-23T17:05:28-04:00

Standing at the back of the class was a requirement for sleepers in every course I took in the Corps and the ones I taught. Sleeping in classes was the way to get the wrath of the Sergeant while the class was in session.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 6:33 PM

2014-09-23T18:33:25-04:00

I have done the same thing. Next time going to class at the beginning of class, just as a common courtesy ask if standing would be appropriate. As you have found out, some instructors have taken it as a sign of disrespect.

Response by CSM William Crain made Sep 23 at 2014 9:29 PM

2014-09-23T21:29:48-04:00

I frequently stood in the back of a class if I was drowsy. And I usually told my troops to stand up if they were sleepy. Nothing wrong with that at all!! It's a helluva lot more disrespectful to fall asleep in a class!!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 9:43 PM

2014-09-23T21:43:46-04:00

As a military instructor, and I've been one for about 5 years total ('06 - '09, and 2012 - present), I can tell you - and I'm sure that anyone that has sat through ANY military training can attest to - that the curriculum is dull, it is sometimes nigh impossible to inject humor in a professional manner, and repetitive teaching (I'm currently a Navy Small Arms Marksmanship Instructor for Seabees in Mississippi. Try teaching the same material for two months straight. . . ). I actually prefer a student that is dozing to stand up. Moving to the rear of the room is respectful, as you are removing a potential distractor (i.e. a bobbing head and some really funny eye movements) out of the line-of-sight of students behind you. Definitely preferable to the students that decide "Pissed Off Avians" is more engaging than my teaching.

That being said, I sometimes feel slighted when a student passes out. "Am I THAT BAD and not engaging my students that they pass out?" But then again, you as an instructor have to think: People get shoehorned into classes for unit attainment, there is usually a minimal amount of activity that really engages the students, like having them disassemble and reassemble a machine gun, play with a T & E, etc.

When one of my students decides to stand up and stay awake, it shows me that AT LEAST THEY ARE TRYING to stay engaged. And, as much as I've taught, I am a HORRIBLE student. I have this sleep button built into my right buttcheek that is engaged almost as fast as I sit down. It's human nature.

Infinitely more respectful for a student to stand than one that decides to keep that sleep button engaged by staying seated.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Sep 23 at 2014 9:59 PM

2014-09-23T21:59:50-04:00

First day of class in boot camp. We were told if you get drowsy, stand up and move to the back of the class. You do whatever you must to pay attention without disrupting the class. We had one guy who would do isometric exercises in the back to keep alert. Never had an instructor object unless you leaned against a wall and closed your eyes. THAT drew attention. Sounds yo me like that instructor needs to learn a bit himself....

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Sep 23 at 2014 10:35 PM

2014-09-23T22:35:35-04:00

Tell your instructor, that this crazy, NCO says he needs to grow the fuck up, you took the initiative to realize what the problem was (His Boring Ass Class), and stood up before you did fall asleep. This was the norm for all training time, especially, if in a classroom setting. We had been Instructed from day one in Basic, if you feel yourself falling alseep stand up, you are in no way in the wrong, the instructor is, for being a douche

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2014 10:54 PM

2014-09-23T22:54:49-04:00

Do what you have to do to stay awake while still respectfully engaging in the class.

Response by 1SG Matthew Herring made Sep 24 at 2014 8:47 AM

2014-09-24T08:47:38-04:00

There's nothing wrong with standing up if you're falling asleep. It should be encouraged. If a Soldier fell asleep in a class that I was giving that Soldier will feel a lot of pain. It's a sign of maturity to say to yourself that I can't stay seated because I'm tired, I should stand because it would be disrespectful to the instructor for me to nod off.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2014 9:11 AM

2014-09-24T09:11:22-04:00

This is one of the few things your DS hammer into during BCT that if you are tired in class stand in the back of the room. Because if you got caught sleeping it would be many ways of pain waiting for you by the closest DS to snatch you up.

Response by 1SG Dustin Springer made Sep 24 at 2014 9:41 AM

2014-09-24T09:41:25-04:00

As a senior instructor part of my in brief is that at any time you feel tired or sleepy, quietly stand up and move to the rear of the classroom. To me you are showing discipline by having the fortitude to stay awake during the block of instructor. Like SGT Richard Hanner stated that instructor needs to get over himself.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2014 10:25 AM

2014-09-24T10:25:06-04:00

I have been in the military for 18+ years and I have always been taught the exact opposite. It is a sign of respect to the instructor for a Soldier to police themselves and stand in the back of the room. We work long hours and dependant on a variety of different items such the temp of the class, topic of instruction, and the interaction between the instructor and students there are times when the Z monster happens. It is the self disciplined Soldier who knows he is losing the sleep battle and stands which I want in my classes. So I disagree about standing in the back being a sign of disrespect.

Response by Lt Col Harry Clawson made Sep 24 at 2014 10:52 AM

2014-09-24T10:52:21-04:00

As a cadet at USAFA, where we were constantly sleep deprived, this was not only routine but was absolutely expected. On the first day of class as freshmen we were told to use this technique vs falling asleep and to do be professional enough to do this before 'head bobbing' started. The only bad thing you could do was have to be told to stand in the back becasue you were falling asleep as that would show you were not recogninzing you needed to stand up. Even a 'good' lecture can't overcome sleep deprivation and the standing technique helped us pay attention -- i onfortunately had to use it quite often and it definitely helped me stay attentive. This instructor needs some instruction!

Response by SSgt Michael Hacker made Sep 24 at 2014 1:35 PM

2014-09-24T13:35:45-04:00

In basic training, we were specifically directed to stand if we were falling asleep.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2014 2:52 PM

2014-09-24T14:52:10-04:00

As a military instructor I would rather see my students stand up at the back of the room in stead of sleeping through my lectures.

Response by SSgt David Smith made Sep 24 at 2014 4:04 PM

2014-09-24T16:04:49-04:00

As a former military and civilian instructor for many years, I absolutely support your decision to go in the back and stand. That instructor was full of shit. I would rather have an entire class standing up in the back than a bunch of bobble heads who are not paying attention to a word I was saying.

Response by SSG John Erny made Sep 24 at 2014 4:49 PM

2014-09-24T16:49:34-04:00

When I was a Pvt the Drill Instructors would encourage us to stand at the back of the class room, the other option was to pay the Price. They did things in the 80's they can not do now. It sucked.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2014 10:13 PM

2014-09-24T22:13:55-04:00

The lectures the army make us attend are mandatory, we may not agree with them. Therefore when soldiers find the lecture boring or disinteresting the sleep monkey climbs in there back. Discipline has nothing to with army force doctrine.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 12:17 AM

2014-09-25T00:17:13-04:00

That's crazy. I've been an Instructor for 5 years and the first thing on the first day I tell them is to stand up if you feel sleepy. The material ANY Army leader is putting out will have dryness to it, no matter how much they can do to make it more entertaining for the recipients. Anyone who sees it as offensive needs to remember that they didn't write the information, and if they're still offended then they're at fault for not being more entertaining. But in the real world, I will continue to tell my Soldiers to stand up when they're sleepy and lead from the front.

Response by SGT Justin Fischer made Sep 25 at 2014 11:21 AM

2014-09-25T11:21:49-04:00

Standard SOP at most military schools. That instructor needs a headspace and timing check.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Sep 25 at 2014 11:55 AM

2014-09-25T11:55:08-04:00

no way is there anything wrong with that.
i remember way back in the day(1986) attending school at NAS Millington our instructors said on the first day of class if you feel sleepy stand up because you do not want me to wake you up

Response by PO2 Keith Glasgow made Sep 25 at 2014 12:18 PM

2014-09-25T12:18:37-04:00

I was always taught/instructed to stand up and step to the back of the room. my personal, and unprofessional, opinion is that instructor is an insecure NTAC.

Response by CW4 John Loftice made Sep 25 at 2014 4:04 PM

2014-09-25T16:04:43-04:00

Funny, I'm an old guy and drafted back in '67. In those days if you were sleepy you'd better get your butt up and stand in the rear of the class or the wrath for sleeping in class would come down on you. I guess the new Army doesn't much resemble the one I was in nor does the rest of society.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Sep 25 at 2014 4:15 PM

2014-09-25T16:15:29-04:00

I was taught you should always stand for something...or you'll fall asleep...or something like that.

Response by SFC Cameron Cranston made Sep 25 at 2014 8:55 PM

2014-09-25T20:55:22-04:00

Been doing it for years. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The instructor was wrong. You did the right thing.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 10:36 PM

2014-09-25T22:36:37-04:00

As both a SSgt and an Instructor there is no reason for the instructor to reprimand a student trying to stay awake and pay attention.

While in a perfect world students get enough sleep and are always well rested and attentive, we all know that sometimes you just don't sleep well. IF IT BECOMES a repeating thing then it may become a matter of concern but never basis for a reprimand unless the student is found at fault for their loss of sleep.

That instructor needs to step back and remember the students are there for the info...not his personal amusement. Lock it up.

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 10:38 PM

2014-09-25T22:38:17-04:00

So the Air Force can teach us to stand up in the back of class if we get tired since BASIC, but as soon as we obey the rule it is ridiculed? No, this was either an individualistic decision of someone getting some anger out or someone told conflicti.v hypocritical information on classroom rules. Also, I'm going to guess he/she didnt announce this to the class did they?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 10:51 PM

2014-09-25T22:51:34-04:00

I can only echo what everyone else has said, I've always been taught to stand up in the back if need be. As an instructor myself, my fellow instructors and myself have always encouraged our students to stand up if need be.

I understand that a LOT of the material that gets put out in military classes can be "dry" and difficult to teach to a bunch of fokes who have heard the same information over and over and over. It's up to the instructor to try to keep the class engaged and keep tabs on the overall mood/alert-fullness of your class.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 11:07 PM

2014-09-25T23:07:05-04:00

I don't know about the other branches but Marines are taught to stand up when they are falling asleep in a class.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 11:09 PM

2014-09-25T23:09:08-04:00

I have been in for 8 years now and ever since I joined that has always been practiced. Not sure why this instructor suddenly had an issue with it. I think it was showing you respected them enough to do what was necessary to stay awake

Response by SSG David Sansocie made Sep 25 at 2014 11:28 PM

2014-09-25T23:28:30-04:00

You were absolutely correct and whomever "corrected" you was out of line.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 11:41 PM

2014-09-25T23:41:54-04:00

Just keep standing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 11:50 PM

2014-09-25T23:50:38-04:00

I am an instructor at TRADOC and students are better off standing than falling asleep at their desk

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 11:59 PM

2014-09-25T23:59:24-04:00

Who cares if the instructor is butt-hurt? If you get the content of the class instead of falling asleep, that is a victory.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 12:10 AM

2014-09-26T00:10:49-04:00

As an instructor, yes it suck to see a bunch of people standing; on the other hand, I need to look at how I can improve my class to prevent that.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 1:36 AM

2014-09-26T01:36:00-04:00

You may have been extra tired or the instructor may have not been engaging enough to keep everyone's attention. Either way, your actions were correct. You stood up, went to the back of the room, and remained awake. Sleepiness is a natural human condition, we are not able to control it without the use of drugs, if we were able, there would be no need for this discussion.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 4:35 AM

2014-09-26T04:35:57-04:00

SGT Curtis, I agree with you. Standing up when tired during training is what we are all taught in basic and with the op tempo of our units there are times when no amount of coffee can keep you awake during a breifing.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 5:50 AM

2014-09-26T05:50:16-04:00

This comment is coming from a 1SG that has been an instructor for over 25 years. Standing up in class IS the way its done when you are tired. The instructor was probably taken off guard by it. Truth be told it was probably poor instructor technique. Try that in my class and we will have fun with it!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 6:02 AM

2014-09-26T06:02:43-04:00

I would rather you stand then fall asleep in my class. We are all human and we all get tired.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 6:24 AM

2014-09-26T06:24:35-04:00

Power tripping/control issues with the instructor. His own set of rules.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 6:44 AM

2014-09-26T06:44:33-04:00

Maybe the instructor could have been more engaging.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 6:49 AM

2014-09-26T06:49:45-04:00

Folks are less likely to fall asleep if the crowd is interacted with. Also having taught many classes with boring topics, you absolutely will shower your audience with sleeping dust if you read the PowerPoint only. Most soldiers should be able to read PowerPoint on thier own.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 6:51 AM

2014-09-26T06:51:30-04:00

Standing up is OPS NORMAL to me.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 7:03 AM

2014-09-26T07:03:56-04:00

The instructor was wrong, even from my early years as a Military Training Instructor the first thing we informed the trainees was to stand up in the back of the room if they felt tire, its nothing more than common sense...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 7:17 AM

2014-09-26T07:17:13-04:00

From my years in the military, it was the instructors who told us to stand if we felt sleepy.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 7:41 AM

2014-09-26T07:41:03-04:00

There is absolutely nothing wrong with standing up in a class. I would much rather my soldiers stand up and pay attention then fall asleep while they are recieveing training.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 10:00 AM

2014-09-26T10:00:33-04:00

I've never heard of an instructor getting butthurt because people stood up to stay awake. If anything, you showed him respect because you put in the extra effort to stay awake and listen to his instruction.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 10:25 AM

2014-09-26T10:25:23-04:00

We all get tired and I have always been told to stand if I am nodding off. By standing we are forcing us to stay awake and pay attention to what is being taught. I don't see if it is a sign of disrepect. They don't know what the situation is that is causing us to be tired and as a soldier you should do what it takes to stay away and learn and do your job.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 12:11 PM

2014-09-26T12:11:40-04:00

It's not disrespectful, however, once you obtain a higher rank, being a Senior NCO or in some cases just an NCO itself, that comes with having discipline to not have to stand up bc you're sleepy or tired, but then some ppl believe that standing up is discipline.... all depends on perception

Response by PO2 John Crutchfield made Sep 26 at 2014 3:23 PM

2014-09-26T15:23:45-04:00

In a previous job, learning Oracle and Solaris 10, for the F-22 program, there were plenty of times where the Z monster was attacking and I chose to stand up in the back of the room. I was still attentive to the material.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 3:28 PM

2014-09-26T15:28:46-04:00

When I was a Drill Sergeant, my policy (And all the other DSs that I knew), was to stand up if you felt like you were going to fall asleep. If we caught you sleeping, you got smoked!

As a CSM, I would never call out a Soldier who stood up.

Response by SSG Robert Poorman made Sep 26 at 2014 4:46 PM

2014-09-26T16:46:21-04:00

I don't see anything wrong with it. You're paying attention, that is what counts.

I was an Instructor for 3 years given classes on the North Korean threat, equipment and weapons. Maybe I was just lucky and never had anyone dozing off but I would think that if I saw a bunch of nodding heads or too many standing in the rear that the problem was me and my material and not the troops.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 4:50 PM

2014-09-26T16:50:18-04:00

To my knowledge, there has never been an issue with doing what is necessary to stay awake if the Z monster chooses to strike. Your chosen method was to stand, because it is almost impossible to doze off while standing, so long as you are focused on the material at hand. Do I believe this was disrespectful? Not at all. However, the instructor may have taken your drowziness as a sign of his failure to be an engaging instructor, and took it harder than he probably should have. While I dont see it as disrespectful, it is, realistically, up to the discretion of the instructor themself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 5:03 PM

2014-09-26T17:03:08-04:00

As a instructor......I have more respect for the person who will get up and move to the back of the room quietly than try to fight the Z MONSTER and end up following asleep. And if he was a instructor that payed attention to his class he should have stopped the class and told the class to get on their feet and stretch for a few minutes in place once thats done have them sit down and continue the class without missing a beat. This instructor needs a coke, a smile and needs to sit down and think. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 5:07 PM

2014-09-26T17:07:27-04:00

Are you kidding me? Is there no end to this "political correctness"? As an instructor I've always encouraged "students" to stand rather than sleep, because I realize that some days are so packed with information and or practical applications that one needs to

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 5:15 PM

2014-09-26T17:15:04-04:00

As a fellow instructor. I ALWAYS tell the service members that I am instructing if ANYONE feels like they are getting tired, quietly move to the back of the room. Now, as a good instructor you should be able to pay attention to your audience. Anytime you see nodding off, eyes going in the back of the head, deer in the headlight look. You stop, tell everyone to get on their feet and stretch in place for a few minutes. Tell them, take seat and move on with the class without skipping a beat. That instructor needs a coke and a smile and get over it. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG! I HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR A PERSON WHO TAKES THE RESPONSIBILTY OF THEMSELVES AND SHOWS RESPECT FOR THE INSTRUCTOR

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Sep 26 at 2014 5:19 PM

2014-09-26T17:19:31-04:00

it disrespect for falling asleep the instructor was disrespectful to you

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 5:49 PM

2014-09-26T17:49:59-04:00

Never seen people nod of in civilian training. Power point is an aid to presentation, not THE presentation

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 8:16 PM

2014-09-26T20:16:20-04:00

We are always taught to stand when you're sleepy, you did the right thing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2014 10:31 PM

2014-09-26T22:31:54-04:00

It is disrespectful to sleep in class.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2014 2:55 AM

2014-09-27T02:55:17-04:00

As many have stated already, you did the right thing, despite what this instructor told you. As a former instructor, I would much rather you stand up on your own and stay awake than have you fall asleep and me having to call you out and tell you to stand up, followed by conversation about falling asleep in class afterwards. Now if you stood up during every single block of instruction on several different days then we might have a conversation about what's going on that has you this tired everyday. Even then it wouldn't be in a "jump down your throat about it" kind of way. In the classroom you have to be able to manage different types of people, personalities, etc. Something this particular instructor either hasn't learned or just doesn't care about.

Response by James Jones made Sep 27 at 2014 2:10 PM

2014-09-27T14:10:28-04:00

That's just silly. No amount of discipline is going to keep you awake if you're falling asleep; that's not how discipline works. You could fake being awake and try to ninja-sleep, but that's far worse than standing would be in any case.

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made Sep 27 at 2014 3:04 PM

2014-09-27T15:04:26-04:00

When I was in the military we were taught that if we felt the Z Monster approaching to stand up and move to the back of the class and stand up without leaning upon the wall. I don't know where this instructor went to school, or from which Army Regulation got such stupid remark, but he sure could of use of someone that truly knew the regulations. As a former Senior NCO this guys was an idiot for such remark.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2014 8:29 PM

2014-09-27T20:29:29-04:00

I have always been told since I came in that if I get tired to Stand Up and go to the back of the class. To me it is a sign of respect because you are making sure you are not falling asleep which is disrespectful.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2014 2:10 PM

2014-09-29T14:10:04-04:00

Tell the instructor if his class wasn't boring you wouldn't have to stand up

Response by Spc 1 J W. made Oct 1 at 2014 7:11 PM

2014-10-01T19:11:59-04:00

Standing up in class rather than falling asleep is a sign of respect. I have stood numerous times when I felt I may fall asleep. I have also tapped my fellow classmates on the shoulder to wake them up.

Response by PO3 Anthony Farhner made Oct 1 at 2014 11:35 PM

2014-10-01T23:35:28-04:00

Better to be reprimanded for doing the right thing than to fall asleep, miss the lecture, and be humiliated for falling asleep during the briefing.

Response by SSG Keith Frost made Oct 3 at 2014 6:57 PM

2014-10-03T18:57:21-04:00

It is the instructor's responsibility to maintain control of their class, including keeping everyone awake. If someone can't stay awake the instructor should tell them to stand in the back. I learned that in my Instructor Training course. It also helps if the instructor is interesting.

Response by PO2 Kimberly Miller made Oct 3 at 2014 8:39 PM

2014-10-03T20:39:46-04:00

That's what was drilled into me way back in boot camp and following on along to any military schools I attended. Even today, in college classes you can see the Veterans stand at the rear of the class during a long, dry lecture. I've never seen it being a problem with a military instructor, college professor or government speaker. They have all actually encouraged it, or thanked those that stood rather than dozing off during their lecture.

It's quite the opposite. It's a sign of respect. You're showing the motivation to stand and stay focused on a lecture that may be a large dose of Z's to sit and listen to. There are plenty of reasons someone may be lacking sleep. To feel tired during a classroom session is a yawn fest of disaster, followed by the head nods and on occasion some snores. I'd say standing is the least display of disrespect that could be offered when you have no control over your body having decided it's time to go off to dreamland - for whatever reason it may be.

Response by PO2 Jeremy Spears made Oct 3 at 2014 9:05 PM

2014-10-03T21:05:02-04:00

In the Navy, that's encouraged. Especially in Basic Enlisted Submarine School. They knew they were cramming more info than we could retain in a short window of time. It's all a test.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2014 1:10 AM

2014-10-04T01:10:48-04:00

I've always been under the impression that if you are tired during a class making yourself stand up without being told is a sign of self discipline. Even if it is disrespectful to stand in class it's even more disrespectful to fall asleep. Honestly that was probably of those situations where it just needs to be like a grain of salt. Brush it off and move on, unless there was some sort of adverse action that was taken there is nothing to worry about.

Response by SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr made Oct 4 at 2014 9:10 AM

2014-10-04T09:10:44-04:00

Ever class I attended was started with the statement " if you feel tired move to the rear and stand up". I don't see anything disrespectful about.

Response by PO2 Jonathan Scharff made Oct 28 at 2014 8:47 PM

2014-10-28T20:47:13-04:00

Still wondering what the small percentage of people who see it as disrespectful do in that situation. Or perhaps they are perfect and have never been sleepy...ever. :)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 8:55 PM

2014-10-28T20:55:06-04:00

I think it's disrespectful to pass out in my class!!!

Response by TSgt Kristin Parsons made Nov 23 at 2014 6:57 PM

2014-11-23T18:57:27-05:00

Standing is a sign of respect as opposed to allowing yourself to fall asleep in class. I think that instructor should be retrained as to how to properly handle situations such as this.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 11:49 AM

2014-12-09T11:49:31-05:00

I was in the military PA school and we had a student that liked to sit front and center but couldn't manage to stay awake because he worked to hard. The best days were when we was sitting on one of those balance balls (he needed help on his sit ups and he thought this would help). I would watch from the back and hope and pray that that day would be the day he would fall asleep and fall off the ball. It never happened.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Dec 9 at 2014 11:49 AM

2014-12-09T11:49:44-05:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, it's the proper thing to do. At OCS, we had to go to the back of the class and stand at parade rest if we could not stay awake while seated!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 12:02 PM

2014-12-09T12:02:39-05:00

I learned in boot to stand in class if I start nodding off. Sounds like the instructor needs to find some thicker skin.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-02-02T13:14:57-05:00

It is the less disrespectful of the two options.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 1:48 PM

2015-02-02T13:48:26-05:00

Exact opposite.

I've always been taught that you 1) sip on that water and if that fails 2) get up and stand up at the back of the room. Sounds to me like you were on target SGT Curtis.

Response by SSgt Jay Dee made Feb 2 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-02-02T13:49:13-05:00

He's an idiot. I was an instructor at my MOS school as well as a drill instructor in San Diego. We always encouraged individuals to stand up if they're falling asleep. I'd rather half of the class be standing in the back awake than half of them dozing off. That's when I'd get really pissed. It's natural to be tired. Especially when combining class with any other type of physical training. He's arrogant and needs to get over himself.

Response by SPC Lukas Jones made Feb 2 at 2015 1:58 PM

2015-02-02T13:58:18-05:00

As a trainer, I always encouraged soldiers to stand if they get tired. I taught CLS for a few years and I know the slides can be a little dry at times and I did my best to make it entertaining (and earned a master trainer ribbon in the process). I would also always take input from my class to see if they needed a break or (usually with the marines I trained) if they needed a PT break. I understand that most of these classes were taught to units as part of MOB ups and that includes long days and short nights so I wouldn't hold it against them. I believe it shows poorly on the trainer to approach you and say that. I have stood at the back of the room during a Sargeant Major's class and seeing me do so, she stopped the class to say that if anyone else felt tired, to follow my example.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Feb 2 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-02-02T15:00:49-05:00

The smart a** in me wants to reply he should have presented a class that was more engaging . The other side of me says brush it off. Standing up to wake your self up is in no way disrespectful. In my opinion it says I respect you enough to not fall asleep during your instruction.

Response by PFC Nicole Henderson made Feb 2 at 2015 3:05 PM

2015-02-02T15:05:15-05:00

No it is not a sign of disrespect. Some people cant sit down to long or they may have some disability where they will need to stand.. if you feel sleepy and stand up.so you dont fall asleep.. I would talk to the instructor to get permission and make sure he or she is ok with it.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Feb 2 at 2015 6:06 PM

2015-02-02T18:06:14-05:00

I still do this today in civilian life. As someone who has been an instructor both in the military and civilian world. I would rather have someone stand and be awake and attentive. Than nodding off while I am trying to conduct a class.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Feb 2 at 2015 9:20 PM

2015-02-02T21:20:22-05:00

I voted "No-Nothing wrong with it" based on the information you gave. I have to ask, SFC Private RallyPoint Member, do you find yourself battling the "Z monster" frequently? If so, it could be something physiological. If you find yourself getting drowsy often, you may want to get into a sleep study program. If that is not the case, then you may need to find a way to entertain yourself during a class. I have attended plenty of meetings, briefs, lectures, classes and the list goes on. Something I like to do is take out my notebook and write down crutch words (uh, um, so etc). These are words we use when we are trying to bridge one thought with another thought. These are used frequently by people who are either unsure of the material, or unsure of themselves as the briefer. Every time one of the words are used, I put a tick mark underneath it and tally up the score. Makes you want to pay attention, if for no other reason than to keep an accurate score.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Feb 2 at 2015 9:40 PM

2015-02-02T21:40:38-05:00

As long as you do so as to not disrupt the class. I would rather have a guy stand to
1. Not fall asleep
2. Give me, as an instructor, a barometer to see if I needed to break or switch up the class, especially if I had a whole platoon standing

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Feb 2 at 2015 9:40 PM

2015-02-02T21:40:44-05:00

SO the instructor wanted you to have the discipline to stay awake, but not stand up and make the effort to do so. Were there any instructions given on exactly how you were to have that discipline?

It seems to me that you were already doing what he asked, but he wasn't happy with the way you did it. To be honest, I don't know what else could be done to stay awake other than that. Not disrespectful in my opinion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 2:10 AM

2015-02-03T02:10:28-05:00

Most people would like to believe that what they are teaching is the most exciting thing to hit the streets. It would not upset me that someone stood up as I know I can get long winded sometimes and it may get a little dry on the topic. I would rather you stand up in the back and still pay attention than to all out grab your woobie and take a nap in the middle of a presentation or class.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 10:29 AM

2015-02-03T10:29:22-05:00

Standing is perfectly acceptable!

I recall push ups being done as well. Seems as though that guy would have lost his sh*t if that happened. Just sayin'.
:)

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Feb 3 at 2015 10:54 AM

2015-02-03T10:54:00-05:00

I spent 20 years in the military and I have been an instuctor and commanded troops, we always told the audience of troops to stand in the back of the classroom to help them stay awake . This standing in the back is a sign of respect, not disrespect. Some leader some where has flipped this policy and now it's the opposite of what we taught. You know nowadays bad is good and good is bad, things change over time and it is directly to leaders .great comment.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-02-03T13:53:04-05:00

As a former instructor and as a student, many times over, I have always preferred that the Soldiers took it upon themselves to be responsible for their actions and stand to ensure that they were understanding the points of the instruction. Besides, nobody wants to be the guy that goes to the TMC for whiplash when you finally succumb to the Z-monster.

Response by Sgt Robert Andrews made Feb 10 at 2015 7:35 PM

2015-02-10T19:35:26-05:00

The discipline comes when you recognize the problem of falling asleep and fix it so that the lesson could be absorbed as it should be, rather than focusing all effort on staying awake.

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 6 at 2015 9:31 PM

2015-05-06T21:31:25-04:00

I realize that I'm about 8 months late chiming in here, but I feel this is an important topic that deserves continued attention.

I think that instructor needs to get over their selves. If they see it as a "sign of disrespect" maybe they should take a look at themselves. Possibly they're not a good instructor and their methods tend to put students to sleep?

In the 20 years I was in the Navy I was ALWAYS told that if I was falling asleep to stand up and go to the back of the room, just as you have been!

Response by SFC Ron Chelsy made May 6 at 2015 11:40 PM

2015-05-06T23:40:28-04:00

No it is not disrespectful to get up and stand in the back of the class. At least than you will wake up and focus better in the subject being taught. It was and always will be the right thing to do.

Response by TSgt David Holman made May 6 at 2015 11:44 PM

2015-05-06T23:44:25-04:00

There are other reasons to stand in the back of the class as well. It isn't about having the "discipline" to stay awake, sometimes there are circumstances beyond your control (i.e., new medication, having a newborn at home, having worked a 24 hour shift prior).

It is worse to sleep in class. This instructor should have realized that you were trying to give them the professional courtesy of your attention, and pressed on.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made May 6 at 2015 11:49 PM

2015-05-06T23:49:52-04:00

Frankly it's not disrespect, it's the discipline to correct your own flaw and the moral courage to admit your weakness by doing something about it.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 6 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-05-06T23:55:51-04:00

I have had to stand up in several military and civilian classes. Not once was I accosted by the course instructor as having been disrespectful to them by doing so, several in fact thanked me for not falling asleep in what even their opinion was a dull subject.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made May 7 at 2015 7:21 AM

2015-05-07T07:21:12-04:00

I was taught to stand when the "Z" monster was there. The problem is the instructors problem alone. It certainly would have been much more disrespectful to fall asleep, which I'm sure we can all agree with. Kudos to you to recognize the need to show respect and stand to not only keep awake, but to continue to receive the information being presented in the class.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Oct 11 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-10-11T22:49:49-04:00

As an Instructor, I would rather have you stand than fall asleep... That's what we tell the troops all the time...

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 15 at 2015 2:25 PM

2015-10-15T14:25:10-04:00

Absolutely not. I have to juggle meds and a spine that has an alien chewing on it from the inside. I can't sit more than 10 minutes without my leg going to sleep. I tell them before class that I'll be in the back and to not single me out or I will embarrass them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 2:29 PM

2015-10-15T14:29:32-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I don't think what you did is disrespectful. I've done it myself and had more than a few join me, standing in the back of the room.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Oct 15 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-10-15T14:56:12-04:00

The instructor is an ass. I do not see how it could possibly be a sign of disrespect. If anything, you showed respect by figuring out how to stay awake...instead of letting your eyes roll back and putting your head down.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-10-15T15:07:08-04:00

What's more disrespectful, standing in class awake or sitting in class...asleep, DUH!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-10-15T15:13:13-04:00

To be blunt, he was wrong.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-10-15T15:33:08-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member In most of the Army schools, that is accepted as normal.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Oct 15 at 2015 3:37 PM

2015-10-15T15:37:55-04:00

That is actually a sign of respect to the instructor. You are standing up which lets them know what they are saying is important and you want to hear it (even if it isn't and you don't). By sitting there and falling asleep you are saying I do not respect you or what you are saying. That instructor is an idiot for chewing you out.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Oct 16 at 2015 5:15 AM

2015-10-16T05:15:12-04:00

I encourage everyone to stand as opposed to letting gravity take them to z town.
BLUF
Standing and moving to the back is better than fighting and doing the nod.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2015 5:38 AM

2015-10-16T05:38:08-04:00

Maybe he felt disrespected because he was boring and about to put you to sleep! LOL! Standing up in class is not a sign of disrespect. I would think that it is a sign of respect instead, that you didn't want to fall asleep!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-10-16T15:46:21-04:00

If you stand of you own accord there is no issue. If you are dozing and someone tells you to stand then yes it is disrespectful.