Stolen valor, which is worse: is it worse if a current member or veteran does it or if they never served?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 05:44:31 -0500

Which is worse? Someone wearing something they did not earn or wearing a uniform they never were allowed to wear?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 6:12 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 06:12:13 -0500

I think it's worse if its a current member or a veteran because they know better. They most likely fought by or knew of someone who earned it. Most of the civilian acts of stolen valor I have seen have all had some sort of mental disability. Not all but some

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Dec 7 at 2014 7:21 AM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 07:21:38 -0500

Sir, I would have to go with someone wearing something that their did not earn. A service member or veteran making a conscious decision to wear a tab, award, etc. that they did not earn is very disparaging. A person like that severely lacks integrity. While someone who puts on a uniform who has never served is also seriously in the wrong, especially if they are seeking personal gain, the service member or veteran who does it is far worse in my opinion.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 8:25 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 08:25:32 -0500

That is really a tough call, but I am going to say that stolen valor from someone who has already served/is serving is worse for the following reasons: 1. They should know better, 2. they will actually know how the uniform is supposed to look so they are more likely to get away with it. Neither is okay though, really this poll is like comparing a punch in the face to a kick in the shin haha.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 7 at 2014 9:14 AM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:14:01 -0500

I think it is worse for a currently serving or a veteran. They know better and the sacrifices that earning those medals, badges, tabs took. It is inexcusable for anyone but find it worse when it's someone from our community.

Response by SrA Alicia Lavander made Dec 7 at 2014 10:50 AM

SrA Alicia Lavander — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:50:03 -0500

One can rationalize a decision all day long but at the end of the day wrong is wrong no matter how you present it. I think the same thought could best be applied here with one exception, an active member or veteran would be breaking an honor code that is shared among the ranks. The old line "You should know better" comes to mind. For whatever reason people do it, it's nothing more than a need for attention, blatant disrespect for the men and women who have earned the right to wear the uniform, and a poor reflection of themselves. I believe that they must be called out for their actions but in the same breath we should pity these people. They must be in a very low and sinister place to present themselves as frauds.

Response by TSgt James Shutt made Dec 7 at 2014 11:04 AM

TSgt James Shutt — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:04:15 -0500

Lt i would say it both are worse. Those that serve or have served earned t b e right to wear that uniform. Whether it be the uniform or device should not matter. Each person who wears that uniform symbolizes the sacrifices they are willing to or have given to our country and to allow someone to tarish the view is unacceptable. We do not take disrespecting the flag lightly so why should we take disrespecting the honor of those that defend it.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 7 at 2014 12:11 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 12:11:52 -0500

We know better.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 12:31 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 12:31:16 -0500

Definitely the Veteran. They should know better and understand the sacrifice better.

Did something happen this weekend?

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Dec 7 at 2014 1:23 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 13:23:53 -0500

This is a tough one. I'm voting currently serving but, IMHO, they are equally as bad. Currently serving vets doing it is a blatant and deliberate violation of "the code". Never-served-a day-in-their-life posers just ruin it for everyone by claiming to be something they're not. Either way, they are selfish, self serving acts and a betrayal of trust.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Dec 7 at 2014 1:25 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 13:25:27 -0500

To me, knowing you have not earned something, and are aware of the Regulations and still do it is worse than a POS civilian that is doing it but doesn't know the Regulations. Either way it's wrong as, well it's just wrong!!

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 7 at 2014 1:27 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 13:27:57 -0500

For me, definitely those that are/have served. Why can they not just be proud of their own honorable service? They KNOW what those strips of ribbon and pieces of metal really mean.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Dec 7 at 2014 1:31 PM

SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 13:31:12 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member Sir, you ask the hardest questions. I am going with a Service Member or Veteran as it betrays the trust and values we all accepted and have grown with.

The average street slinger will be a dead give a way. Although, even when obvious they go un-noticed. I have a flagrant example, an off the street guy dresses up in ACUs with the Special Forces Crest attached to his sleeve as a patch. He claims to be a CPT and even convinces some, who should know better, to believe his story. He is obviously not a real Soldier, certainly not a real officer, and especially not a real Special Forces operator, but he steals, lies, and makes his way from the Southwest United States to Canada before being captured.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 7 at 2014 1:36 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 13:36:37 -0500

And it should be something egregious not just a oversight. I have seen mistakes on stars etc on ribbons. That is not worthy of calling stolen valor (unless it is ridiculous).
Now, adding full decorations, jump wings, tabs, foreign awards, fourragere etc and you are talking a whole different story. i.e the Ranger/Delta/SEAL guy, been in 7 wars and is 28.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 3:02 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 15:02:48 -0500

I was watching a lot of Don Shipley's videos today and I'm really starting to feel more bad for a lot of these guys. Many seem mentally ill. I have no sympathy for those doing it for profit, but many just seem sad/crazy and looking for attention.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 3:13 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 15:13:55 -0500

Definitely the currently serving or veteran category is worse. No question and no debate.

A person who has worn a uniform knows what is right, knows what is at stake, and knows what it means to steal valor. There is no excuse and you cannot claim ignorance as the non-serving public can.

I say they can strip and hand over the uniform when confronted, regardless of where/when, or proceed to step 2, blanket party. In lieu of aforementioned blanket party, as much as I would love to see it, kudos to sites such as "http://guardianofvalor.com/hall-of-shame/" and such for exposing all the phonies out there!

Hall Of Shame

This is our Hall Of Shame, here we have a special place for those that would lie about Military service, or embellish their Military Record. Once an investigation is complete, and it is found that they embellished or fabricated military service, they are added here. We get around fifty new cases per week, only a small percentage of these cases ever make it here. If we can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person embellished or...

Response by TSgt Jackie Jones made Dec 7 at 2014 11:35 PM

TSgt Jackie Jones — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 23:35:51 -0500

I think the yahoos off the street don't see what the big deal is. They don't know what service is and why it matters.

The ones that "know" should know better!

Both are awful and disrespectful and both should be prosecuted.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 6:12 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 18:12:33 -0500

I was going to ask this same question. Although I don't condone either and there is no excuse for the behavior. I find that it more disturbing when a current/former service member does it.

It is bad when a civilian does it, no denying it. One could at least say that the civilian doing it may not completely understand the significance of what they are doing and why it is wrong with the exceptions of those doing for explicit gains. Service members and veterans should have the knowledge to understand the rigors of earning certain awards, titles or belonging to certain jobs that require intense training. Those are the ones who have zero excuse for the behavior because they can't play dumb. They know full well what they are doing is wrong and dishonorable.

Not only that when I run into a former service member who lies about their job, I am actually offended, because that means that A-hole has zero respect for his/her fellow vets that they think we are stupid to not understand the profession that we both signed up for.

Response by SSG Ike Phelan made Dec 8 at 2014 7:21 PM

SSG Ike Phelan — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:21:24 -0500

I do not believe that they are even in the same category. A service member who displays something they did not earn or wears something that was not awared or earned is in need of a serious integratiy check. Now did they steal valor no in my opinion you sign up for service and you are braver then a lot of Americans but they are committing fraud. That is my issue with a service member who does it on a side note anyone who has served in the army for more then a few years knows our award system is broken now that does not justifie a soldier putting something on their uniform that they were not approved for but I have found that the people who really deserve recognition do not ask for it nor do they want it.
Civilians who wear the uniform and never serve their country really piss me off becuase of the amount of pride I take in the fact that I earned everything I put on and something else almost every award or medal I put on my uniform represent a missed birthday, anniversary, Christmas and everything in between becuase the item you put on your uniform that you cherish the most I can guarantee you were not going home at night when you earned it. I know also that there are some of you ol timers out there who remember when being in the military was not popular. While I was attending AIT I had my uniform on out in public and I had a young woman call me a baby killer I know this was not something that happened all the time but I am sure that if you served before these two wars began then people looked at you like an Unneccery expense to our county but there were still many of us who took pride in serving even if there was no war. I loved the way my uniform made me feel and who it made me in the long run and to see someone just buy one and put it on pisses me off so much and that truly is stolen valor not Freud. No one knows what it is like to serve if you have not been thru the training and been forced to swallow your pride more then once.

Response by SPC David S. made Dec 8 at 2014 7:22 PM

SPC David S. — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:22:38 -0500

They should know better. Kind of like a cop robbing liquor stores.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 7:27 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:27:48 -0500

Stolen valor is stolen valor regardless of who is doing it. In my eyes neither is worse than the other as both are equally heinous.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 2:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:53:29 -0500

In consideration of both parties, they should both know better. I think it falls into line of intent. If Private John Doe buys a ranger tab because he thinks Rangers are cool, well, he should know better than to put them on his uniform (otherwise, he falls into NCO time). If civilian Joe Doe buys a Ranger tab (and uniform) and wears them, he should also know better. The fact is that no one is checking down on Joe, and what his intent to wear such a device, while as NCOs, we can spot check our Soldiers (because heaven forbid an actual Ranger were to catch Private Doe, and his 'tabby' ideas).

Intent would be hard to prove unless there was evidence like a civilian getting special favors, or using the uniform (resume reference) to gain special privileges.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 5:09 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:09:10 -0500

They should know better.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 6:29 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:29:51 -0500

I am going to have to say the current member/veteran using it is worse. Those members should know better and they should be proud of what they had accomplished while in. If they are a current member and aren't proud, why not cross train into another career field and doing something they are proud of?

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Mar 14 at 2015 4:40 PM

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 16:40:35 -0400

Because a service member/veteran should know better.