Study assesses toll heavy packs have on Marines' backs https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs <div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-27819"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image"> <a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fstudy-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook' target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Study+assesses+toll+heavy+packs+have+on+Marines%27+backs&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fstudy-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs&amp;via=RallyPoint" target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a> <a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0AStudy assesses toll heavy packs have on Marines&#39; backs%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs" target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a> </div> <a class="fancybox" rel="282b777057921f5790a37af15f462a41" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/027/819/for_gallery_v2/635609975439742998-MRI2.jpg"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/027/819/large_v3/635609975439742998-MRI2.jpg" alt="635609975439742998 mri2" /></a></div></div>From: Marine Corps Times<br /><br />A multi-year Navy study is using Magnetic Resonance Imaging to find out just how much wear and tear infantry Marines are putting on their backs in years of carrying heavy loads. The research could also help test out modifications to standard gear to help reduce the toll.<br /><br />Conducted through the Naval Health Research Center, the study uses Marine volunteers with a range of experience levels to examine the impact on the spine and how the back changes over time as they walk and stand with loaded packs. The study also had Marines sit and lie prone on their elbows under load to collect data on all positions Marines in full battle rattle might find themselves in. The multiple-phase research began in 2011 and is slated to continue at least through the end of this fiscal year.<br /><br />The research is taking place on the West Coast and recently troops from 5th Marine Regiment, out of Camp Pendleton, California, have been volunteer study subjects. To date, about 200 Marine volunteers, ranging from School of Infantry students to salty colonels, have participated so far. Officials say they need at least 65 more Marine test subjects before research is complete.<br /><br />"We're looking at it from a perspective of, first of all, what's happening to the spine, how can we improve that," said Dr. Karen Kelly, a research physiologist with NHRC.<br /><br />Researchers, she said, gauge the effects of load-bearing when the weight is distributed or positioned differently, with an eye to finding the most ergonomic solution for the often unavoidable requirement of packing heavy loads into combat. A current line of research uses a vertical, walk-in MRI machine, typically used for clinical research, to image the spines of Marine volunteers. Some enter the machine wearing their plate carrier vests; others wear packs loaded with weights ranging from 20 to 112 pounds, Kelly said. The high-tech machine allows the scientists to create 3-D models showing the impact of the gear on Marines' backs.<br /><br />So far, Kelly said there has been no lack of Marines willing to participate.<br /><br />"They really enjoy it," she said. "Every Marine we've had that volunteers, they've been so great. We provide them with a copy of their image if they want. We try to tell them as much as we can as they go along. They give us a lot of great feedback."<br /><br />While it's too early to discuss findings about the long-term effects of load-carrying on troops' backs, Kelly said researchers have found that older Marines can handle the load better. They have also been able to observe the immediate impact of loading down a Marine.<br /><br />"The acute effect is, when you put a load on someone their spine changes, and when they take a rest, their spine fully recovers to normal," she said.<br /><br />In previous load distribution testing, Marines have been sent through physical challenges including the combat fitness test, maneuver-under-fire exercise, and marksmanship tests. They used a redesigned plate carrier, still in the testing stages, that distributes loads more favorably for long humps and other endurance exercises. Research is planned to continue this year with small modifications to the Marines' main pack that use a modular hip belt to take some weight off the back.<br /><br />"Marines said anecdotally that [the new plate carrier] felt better on their back," Kelly said.<br /><br />The multi-pronged study also involves a special virtual environment, built on a high-tech treadmill, in which Marine volunteers are fitted with more than 40 motion capture-style markers. They're asked to simulate a hike under load, marksmanship tasks, and a mountainous ascent. NHRC staff can see how the loads change Marines' posture and movements as they accomplish all these tasks.<br /><br />Other research has involved Marines who agreed to be imaged prior to attending the School of Infantry, mid-way through the school, and upon entry to the fleet to assess how their backs were affected in that short time period.<br /><br />"The load did cause changes in the back, just biomechanical changes," Kelly said. "It was pretty interesting to see how the spine changes, and we wanted to follow that."<br /><br /><br /><br />Kelly said NHRC works with I Marine Expeditionary Force and Marine Corps Systems Command to distribute their findings, which can be used to inform the development of new gear. Other findings are published in peer-reviewed scientific journals, she said.<br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/03/04/study-assesses-back-toll/24321333/">http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/03/04/study-assesses-back-toll/24321333/</a> Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:07:34 -0500 Study assesses toll heavy packs have on Marines' backs https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs <div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-27819"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image"> <a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fstudy-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook' target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Study+assesses+toll+heavy+packs+have+on+Marines%27+backs&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fstudy-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs&amp;via=RallyPoint" target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a> <a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0AStudy assesses toll heavy packs have on Marines&#39; backs%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs" target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a> </div> <a class="fancybox" rel="485b48fc6e27fab38d622426eda4445d" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/027/819/for_gallery_v2/635609975439742998-MRI2.jpg"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/027/819/large_v3/635609975439742998-MRI2.jpg" alt="635609975439742998 mri2" /></a></div></div>From: Marine Corps Times<br /><br />A multi-year Navy study is using Magnetic Resonance Imaging to find out just how much wear and tear infantry Marines are putting on their backs in years of carrying heavy loads. The research could also help test out modifications to standard gear to help reduce the toll.<br /><br />Conducted through the Naval Health Research Center, the study uses Marine volunteers with a range of experience levels to examine the impact on the spine and how the back changes over time as they walk and stand with loaded packs. The study also had Marines sit and lie prone on their elbows under load to collect data on all positions Marines in full battle rattle might find themselves in. The multiple-phase research began in 2011 and is slated to continue at least through the end of this fiscal year.<br /><br />The research is taking place on the West Coast and recently troops from 5th Marine Regiment, out of Camp Pendleton, California, have been volunteer study subjects. To date, about 200 Marine volunteers, ranging from School of Infantry students to salty colonels, have participated so far. Officials say they need at least 65 more Marine test subjects before research is complete.<br /><br />"We're looking at it from a perspective of, first of all, what's happening to the spine, how can we improve that," said Dr. Karen Kelly, a research physiologist with NHRC.<br /><br />Researchers, she said, gauge the effects of load-bearing when the weight is distributed or positioned differently, with an eye to finding the most ergonomic solution for the often unavoidable requirement of packing heavy loads into combat. A current line of research uses a vertical, walk-in MRI machine, typically used for clinical research, to image the spines of Marine volunteers. Some enter the machine wearing their plate carrier vests; others wear packs loaded with weights ranging from 20 to 112 pounds, Kelly said. The high-tech machine allows the scientists to create 3-D models showing the impact of the gear on Marines' backs.<br /><br />So far, Kelly said there has been no lack of Marines willing to participate.<br /><br />"They really enjoy it," she said. "Every Marine we've had that volunteers, they've been so great. We provide them with a copy of their image if they want. We try to tell them as much as we can as they go along. They give us a lot of great feedback."<br /><br />While it's too early to discuss findings about the long-term effects of load-carrying on troops' backs, Kelly said researchers have found that older Marines can handle the load better. They have also been able to observe the immediate impact of loading down a Marine.<br /><br />"The acute effect is, when you put a load on someone their spine changes, and when they take a rest, their spine fully recovers to normal," she said.<br /><br />In previous load distribution testing, Marines have been sent through physical challenges including the combat fitness test, maneuver-under-fire exercise, and marksmanship tests. They used a redesigned plate carrier, still in the testing stages, that distributes loads more favorably for long humps and other endurance exercises. Research is planned to continue this year with small modifications to the Marines' main pack that use a modular hip belt to take some weight off the back.<br /><br />"Marines said anecdotally that [the new plate carrier] felt better on their back," Kelly said.<br /><br />The multi-pronged study also involves a special virtual environment, built on a high-tech treadmill, in which Marine volunteers are fitted with more than 40 motion capture-style markers. They're asked to simulate a hike under load, marksmanship tasks, and a mountainous ascent. NHRC staff can see how the loads change Marines' posture and movements as they accomplish all these tasks.<br /><br />Other research has involved Marines who agreed to be imaged prior to attending the School of Infantry, mid-way through the school, and upon entry to the fleet to assess how their backs were affected in that short time period.<br /><br />"The load did cause changes in the back, just biomechanical changes," Kelly said. "It was pretty interesting to see how the spine changes, and we wanted to follow that."<br /><br /><br /><br />Kelly said NHRC works with I Marine Expeditionary Force and Marine Corps Systems Command to distribute their findings, which can be used to inform the development of new gear. Other findings are published in peer-reviewed scientific journals, she said.<br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/03/04/study-assesses-back-toll/24321333/">http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/03/04/study-assesses-back-toll/24321333/</a> Marine Corps Times Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:07:34 -0500 2015-03-05T11:07:34-05:00 Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 5 at 2015 11:13 AM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=513381&urlhash=513381 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>"The acute effect is, when you put a load on someone their spine changes, and when they take a rest, their spine fully recovers to normal,"<br /><br />It was never really my back that got me (the flak sort of stabilizes your back). Joints were the bigger issue. Personally it was the ankles and shoulders for me. I know a lot of guys with bad knees though.<br /><br />Having become a runner later in life, one of the things I learned was how much extra weight above the weight affects your knees. It's something like each pound is 4lbs of pressure on your your joints. Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:13:12 -0500 2015-03-05T11:13:12-05:00 Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 11:34 AM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=513421&urlhash=513421 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In a similar but unrelated study...men like looking at women. What a waste of money. Just ask...any infantryman will tell you. COL Private RallyPoint Member Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:34:10 -0500 2015-03-05T11:34:10-05:00 Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 5 at 2015 2:02 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=513776&urlhash=513776 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a Service Member with several plates a half dozen screws and couple rods in my back, I am all for the study if it can actual help us to save the backs of our future Service Members. CSM Michael J. Uhlig Thu, 05 Mar 2015 14:02:00 -0500 2015-03-05T14:02:00-05:00 Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2015 2:02 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=515900&urlhash=515900 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is something I've fought the VA on about my back they are trying to say it's normal for a 25 year old to have the onset of Degenerative Disc Disease... <br /><br />When I didn't have any back problems prior to 2011 when I went to Afghanistan but after coming back, I've struggled with it daily for 3 years now. I spent 7 months in a turret bouncing around behind a 240 with a full combat load on.<br /><br />Now anytime I look down or stretch my spine, my left legs starts to go numb... SGT Private RallyPoint Member Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:02:44 -0500 2015-03-06T14:02:44-05:00 Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 6 at 2015 3:16 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=516073&urlhash=516073 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is laughable. How much money has been spent on this? This just in.....jumping out of planes is bad for your knees! Let's spend millions of dollars to find out why. Unbelievable. SSG Robert Burns Fri, 06 Mar 2015 15:16:35 -0500 2015-03-06T15:16:35-05:00 Response by Capt Richard I P. made Mar 6 at 2015 3:55 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=516165&urlhash=516165 <div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-28263"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image"> <a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fstudy-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook' target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Study+assesses+toll+heavy+packs+have+on+Marines%27+backs&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fstudy-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs&amp;via=RallyPoint" target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a> <a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0AStudy assesses toll heavy packs have on Marines&#39; backs%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs" target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a> </div> <a class="fancybox" rel="24198c67d79d1d06bbfe2dea3231a4c4" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/028/263/for_gallery_v2/41pgnYHgikL._BO1_204_203_200_.jpg"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/028/263/large_v3/41pgnYHgikL._BO1_204_203_200_.jpg" alt="41pgnyhgikl. bo1 204 203 200 " /></a></div></div>Is this the same study that one SLA Marshall used to write a book that was rapidly added to every reading list ever only to be pointedly ignored by everyone? <br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.amazon.com/The-Soldiers-Load-Mobility-Nation/dp/">http://www.amazon.com/The-Soldiers-Load-Mobility-Nation/dp/</a> [login to see] <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default"> <div class="pta-link-card-picture"> <img src="https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/link_data_pictures/images/000/010/103/qrc/global-sprite_bluebeacon-32-v1._V327533540_.png?1443035437"> </div> <div class="pta-link-card-content"> <p class="pta-link-card-title"> <a target="blank" href="http://www.amazon.com/The-Soldiers-Load-Mobility-Nation/dp/0686310012">Amazon.com: The Soldier&#39;s Load and the Mobility of a Nation (9780686310013): S. L. A. Marshall:...</a> </p> <p class="pta-link-card-description">Amazon.com: The Soldier&#39;s Load and the Mobility of a Nation (9780686310013): S. L. A. Marshall: Books</p> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div> Capt Richard I P. Fri, 06 Mar 2015 15:55:03 -0500 2015-03-06T15:55:03-05:00 Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 6 at 2015 4:10 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=516197&urlhash=516197 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I know this study is for Marines, but they can start to fix some of these issues on the Army side as well by wiping out situps on the PT test and replacing it with something better such as crunches or planks.<br /><br />The heavy packs do not surprise me, is it possible to find a way to better distribute the weight from what is in the pack into some manner of a vest? CPT Zachary Brooks Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:10:09 -0500 2015-03-06T16:10:09-05:00 Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2015 4:16 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=516205&urlhash=516205 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was an inch and a half taller before active duty. Due to compacting discs with heavy ass rucks and flying out of a HMMVW, I've seemingly gone through MAN-opause. SSG Private RallyPoint Member Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:16:05 -0500 2015-03-06T16:16:05-05:00 Response by SSG Scott Burk made Mar 6 at 2015 6:31 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=516396&urlhash=516396 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I got so bored reading this I had to stop. If you don't want to hump a pack, don't sign up to be a grunt. Yes, the packs are heavy. I was an FO (13F) and had to hump all the 11B AND 13F stuff at the same time. When I got to old to do it, I became a M109 Gunner (13B). Infantry and 13F is a young mans job. When I got tired of Humping 95 pound projectiles, I became an MLRS FDC Chief (13P). Problem solved. SSG Scott Burk Fri, 06 Mar 2015 18:31:01 -0500 2015-03-06T18:31:01-05:00 Response by SFC John Styron made Mar 6 at 2015 9:42 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/study-assesses-toll-heavy-packs-have-on-marines-backs?n=516630&urlhash=516630 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>See list below of the effects as I suffer from all of them as a result of carrying excessively heavy packs as an Airborne Infantryman during the cold war when commanders had nothing better to think of then to have us grunts walk all day and night across a reservation. It was very common to walk from areas near Southern Pines or near Camp Mackall west of Ft. Bragg back to main post each week during an intensified training cycle plus on Thursdays back in garrison for PT we did 25 milers. So here is the list.<br />1. Severe stenosis of the lower spine.<br />2. Rucksack Palsy.<br />3. Highly stressed and wornout hips, knees and ankles.<br />4. No cartilage on left hip and very little on right hip.<br />5. Pinched nerve of C6/C7 causing numbness across upper back to the left arm pit and left elbow.<br />6. Nerve blockage in both shoulders and arms down to and into the hands causing pain and tingling. Gotta love those electromyographys.<br />7. Radiculopathy of left leg down to the foot.<br /><br />And, the Army performed only x-rays during my retirement physical knowing full well x-rays would not see these conditions. Since 2003 retirement still to date the only thing the VA recognizes is the stenosis and radiculapothy. All other issues though I have submitted new evidence, the VA denies and states it is not service connected. BS. The VA knows damned well what an Airborne Infantryman is subjected to. SFC John Styron Fri, 06 Mar 2015 21:42:09 -0500 2015-03-06T21:42:09-05:00 2015-03-05T11:07:34-05:00