Suicide. How we combat it?

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 06:54:43 -0400

I want to ask this community of Vetrans, Active, Reserve and Guard. Your opinion of this photo and what it means to you.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jun 18 at 2015 7:00 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 07:00:26 -0400

Education for everyone. This is the only thing we can do.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 7:34 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 07:34:36 -0400

Heart wrenching.

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made Jun 18 at 2015 7:52 AM

SCPO Lee Pradia — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 07:52:51 -0400

It'll generate awareness because you see ot, but no one really really cares about until after the deed is done. People go through the paces of pretending to care but they really don't give it much thought. I worked in the ER, if you have insurance, you're good, get admitted to a facility get help, if not, you'll be discharged to home or the street and come back to ER near death. Look what happened after Robin Williams, everyone was in an uproar, full of energy and emotion. Now, that energy is gone, like a fart in the wind, and that was for a famous person. Now a GI, we can't get that kind of support. The VA tries, but they fall short at times.
The fix, more support groups that are like family, available, willing, open, convenient and really really caring, with the understanding that you can't fix everyone, someone is going to be successful, but some are not.

Response by SPC Carson S. made Jun 18 at 2015 9:02 AM

SPC Carson S. — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:02:37 -0400

I am not sure what more can be done (except maybe mandatory psychiatric evaluations post-deployment), but losing even one service member to suicide is one too many.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jun 18 at 2015 9:51 AM

Maj Chris Nelson — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:51:15 -0400

The image is disturbing. Took me a minute or 2 of looking to really SEE what it was showing. I understand the concept, but I think it may have gone just a tad bit too far... Unfortunately, those that are contemplating suicide do not always give the warning signals to everyone. they may drop a hint or clue here or there, and when all the pieces come together (generally after the fact), that is when people realize there were hints.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 9:59 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:59:44 -0400

Hate pictures like this.....just my opinion but I feel they do more harm than good are are just attention seeking on the part of folks who produce them (again not an attack just my opinion, I could be wrong but it's how I feel)

IMO they belittle PTSD because they are just an Artsy type photo. Without context it can mean anything.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 18 at 2015 10:09 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:09:50 -0400

None of your poll options were what i would choose for an answer so I'll not vote and just post.

1st problem. That pic will resonate with only a very small percentage of the population.. mostly those that deal with this stuff directly. And that demographic needs no such pictorial reminder.

2nd problem. Those that need to be made aware of the issue, educated on the signs, provided the resources... will not "get" that picture.

3rd problem. The picture can be misrepresented by those that wish to do so.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:14:03 -0400

A picture is worth a thousand words... an UNCOMFORTALBE thousand words. But if this is what it takes for those who do not know- for them to start to understand the pain- if its a damn picture that will get them stop and think. Then, okay.

I think that it makes us uncomfortable because we know what it is like- either ourselves or seen our friends struggle with this same battle. Its not easy. IT'S why it is uncomfortable.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 11:15 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:15:58 -0400

It is a POWERFUL image. As a community, we have been pulling together more & more to support our brothers & sisters that are suffering. I think this is the EXACT message this photo sends.

In today's world of sensationalism, it takes a piece like this to make a wave.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jun 18 at 2015 11:24 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:24:42 -0400

This message and picture shoots directly to the heart of the matter! There is a real problem out there. As a Commander I can't tell you the number of times I had to send a team of support soldiers to an individual soldiers home because they even mentioned the word suicide. We have to continue to be proactive. Leaders at every level and even veterans and retirees need to be aware of the signs and signals that individuals are sending. This will not go away, but we can help those in need. For all of you on RP members that are in leadership positions down to the lowest level be proactive when you hear or see the signs. Even if I heard a rumor through the grapevine of a soldier in my headquarters or down trace that was talking, thinking, or projecting the signs of an issue we took action. I would rather do something and be wrong about it, instead of doing nothing and losing a soldier!

Response by SPC David S. made Jun 18 at 2015 11:33 AM

SPC David S. — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:33:49 -0400

I think this photo represents military suicide fairly accurately - self medicating with drugs and or booze, a slough of prescription meds, LEO, a bunch of battle buddies and the use of a gun. Being that suicide is a very disturbing topic the photo fits, however anything that drives awareness is good in MHO.

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Missing Iraq War Veteran's Body Found Near Libertyville Railroad Tracks | Libertyville, IL Patch

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Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 18 at 2015 11:35 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:35:17 -0400

Creating polls is an art and a science. They require a deep understanding of statistics as well as the language arts. I almost wish they'd remove the polling option from blogs.

That being said, let's address the issue...

Suicide. It's too serious to be taken lightly. The photo is a rather banal attempt to address it. Before you can compose an image, you have to set some criteria for it. For example, who is the audience? Are we attempting to encourage persons with suicidal thoughts to seek help or are we attempting to encourage persons to intervene?

How do we intervene effectively? It has been noted that it's difficult to stop a determined assassin, even when the target is guarded. Imagine then how difficult it is to stop determined assassins when the target is themselves.

How do we dissuade those with suicidal thoughts from acting on them? Will rational messages work when you dealing with what is arguably the most irrational act one can imagine?

I suspect that all who visit this discussion thread want to help prevent suicide. I don't think it's impossible, but I also don't think it's a problem that can be answered without a lot of serious effort.

...and, no, I don't think the proffered image helps even if a cogent caption were appended.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 18 at 2015 12:08 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 12:08:39 -0400

It bothers us mil types much more than the general population most likely. It will have to be explained more to them. I like the notion that you are never alone as you sure feel alone when you're depressed.

The first suicide I was close to was in 77 down in Antarctica. I had a 3rd Class in my shop that didn't show up. When Senior and I checked his bunk, we found a picture of him and his wife with the wife's face cut out. We found him 3 days later. He walked out on the ice, hid, and took his boots off. I lost Senior later that deployment to cancer. Tough year.

Hypothermia is a mean beast. It gives you no chance to think about it or care to save yourself. I got put into the water down there by accident. By the time they could safely get me out, I just didn't care about whether I died or not. You just don't think much about anything.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 18 at 2015 12:19 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 12:19:22 -0400

I answered with the least incorrect option. I am not actually sure it will help generate awareness, because I think most people are aware. The question is not about awareness but action.

Caliber of the gun? Really?

Propaganda? I do not think propaganda is the right word in anyway in connection with PTSD.

Response by SFC Jeff Stevenson made Jun 18 at 2015 1:00 PM

SFC Jeff Stevenson — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:00:40 -0400

The only way is to get the info out and the only ones that a vet will talk to most times is someone who has walked the same ground.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Jun 18 at 2015 1:12 PM

SGT Steve Oakes — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:12:33 -0400

Anything that raises awareness. I think it is hard for Civilians and even many of us, to realize. Just because someone is a trained up battle hardened bad ass. Does not mean that inside they are not struggling with what they have seen, done and/or failed to do. Did I have to kill that last guy? If I ran a little faster, would my buddy still be alive?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 18 at 2015 3:30 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 15:30:23 -0400

I am not smart enough to know if they are stopping him or facilitating.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 18 at 2015 6:29 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 18:29:26 -0400

I noticed nobody was pulling him away for a bad situation. They are watching as a sordid event is unfolding. I have helped soldiers and NCOs who had PTSD. I told them I have been in a dark place filled with pain and found a way out. I told them let me be your recon for you. The first step was telling them to look into the mirror and say good things about yourself, and acknowledge everyone you love three times a day. It tricks the brain with positive thoughts and breaks the cycle of racing negative thoughts.

After a month they were able to acknowledge a dramatic improvement and could feel hope, happiness, and feel love. That is the toehold they needed keep improving. This also gave me a sense of purpose and satisfaction that I was able to help others.

I was that soldier in the picture. Everything was dark, the pain was excruciating, nothing made sense, I had a tremendous feeling I would rather die than live like this, and I absolutely did know who to ask help from. Eventually my psychologist took over my treatment and sent me inpatient where I felt safe.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2015 4:19 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 04:19:26 -0400

Gunny, frankly I'm disappointed to see you put up that 2nd choice. Suicide is NOTHING to joke about, a very sensitive issue indeed. Nevertheless, impactful picture. The problem with it IMHO is that it'll not be effective without proactive (and/or intrusive) involvement by the member's of chain of command.

I just completed the course called ASIST (Applied Suicide Intervention Skills Training) at my command. The best stress/suicide intervention course that I've attended so far (far better than OSCAR in my opinion). That course taught me how to approach suicide-prone individuals from a more proactive level. What I learned from it is that just as much attention as we put into individuals' mission and bureaucratic readiness, we MUST devote same level of attention to their psychological readiness, which is far more complicated if we're to do it right. Oohrah!

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jun 23 at 2015 11:47 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:47:40 -0400

We fight it by being involved and showing each-other we care. The photo helps with that message.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 12:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:14:47 -0400

To me this image symbolizes a multitude of factors, concerning the possible help and support or contributing factors leading to this point in this soldiers mindset.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 12:15 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:15:40 -0400

This picture really jerked my emotions because I lost a friend this year to suicide. He had a lot of demons and his drinking spiraled out of control. Think this picture is a true statement if they only knew how many of us were there if they asked.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 12:21 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:21:07 -0400

The number one problem for the one suffering is the stigma. Terms like Crazy and the idea that if you admit to being suicidal that you are converged upon and degraded. Many veterans will just shut up. Kind of like being arrested for having difficulties in dealing. Restraints and loss of freedom are tantamount to losing more control of one's life.

Response by MSgt Tim Parkhurst made Jun 23 at 2015 2:02 PM

MSgt Tim Parkhurst — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 14:02:06 -0400

Will certainly generate some discussion. I don't know that the intended message is really that clear visually. It's not clear what those around the individual with the gun are doing. Are they forcing it in his mouth? Are they helping him commit suicide? In the context of the comments accompanying it, it's not terribly confusing, but as a stand alone photo, I'd have to say it's a little disturbing.

Response by MSgt Tim Parkhurst made Jun 23 at 2015 2:18 PM

MSgt Tim Parkhurst — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 14:18:06 -0400

I've already voted, but I'd like to add another comment. There are lots of reasons why people get depressed, frustrated, have PTSD, or become unemployed, homeless, etc. All of those things can certainly be contributing factors to suicide, whether for veterans or civilians. But those aren't the real reasons why someone commits suicide. There are lots of people who suffer from those things who never attempt or even think of taking their own life.

In my experience, the single thread that ties all suicides and real (as opposed to acting out) suicide attempts together. It is that the victim is, or percieves him/herself to be, UTTERLY ALONE. If the individual has no one who they can readily talk to about their most private feelings, or if no one is intrusively involved in that person's life, then they are alone. People commit suicide when they have problems, those problems seem overwhelming, and the person PERCEIVES that no one is with them. They could be in a crowded room (which sometimes happens) but still feel completely alone, and pull the trigger.

If we know a person who MAY be struggling with life issues, and who MAY be feeling overwhelmed - like there is no hope - then it's OUR responsibility to INTRUDE in that person's life to let them know they are NOT alone. Each person must use their own judgement to determine what level of intrusion is appropriate. No one like to be a pain in the ass. But, I would argue that if it keeps the individual alive, then it's not too intrusive. Don't just "care", be involved!

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2015 1:08 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 13:08:47 -0400

Call a brother, there is always someone there to help you that has gone through or us going through the same thing. Looking out for our own is the only way we save ourselves.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 28 at 2015 6:32 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 18:32:19 -0400

Sometimes a buddy helps, 911 helps, therapists helps, family helps, sometimes nobody helps.

Response by SPC George Long made Jun 28 at 2015 11:57 PM

SPC George Long — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 23:57:35 -0400

This is a gang of PTSD wanna be's. I bet before its all over one of them will eat that weapon.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 30 at 2015 5:04 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 17:04:19 -0400

It is totally humbling from thinking we can save all the PTSD veterans to we will not reach that point. Crap happens as we want to move to zero suicides, but we will never hit zero.