Swords at military weddings: Any sharp tips for their use?

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:03:53 -0400

I'm trying to learn how best to incorporate sword or sabre arches at a military wedding. Have any of you used them before? What sort of advice can you offer? Are they limited to certain MOS or branches? Is it appropriate for a groom who is a Chaplain? Where are the swords obtained? What is the procedure for use? Significance of movements? Is it even worth the hassle? Any tips or clear direction you can offer? Thank you!

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made Jun 10 at 2015 3:04 PM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:04:22 -0400

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made Jun 10 at 2015 3:05 PM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:05:04 -0400

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 10 at 2015 3:09 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:09:36 -0400

When the last man outside the chapel brings down the saber, preventing the couple from departing,and his opposite swats the bride on the tush welcoming her to the Army/Marines/etc, ensure that his saber is dull. DO NOT ALLOW THE GOWN TO BECOME NICKED!!!!!!!!!!

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jun 10 at 2015 3:32 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:32:00 -0400

CH (MAJ) William Beaver, there is a sword (NCO)/saber (officer) manual of arms. I've provided a link. Mostly, these are done incorrectly. In the photo, none of those under arms are covered. Terrible. Also, none of them have a belt and guard (holder) with chain so how in the world is the manual of arms to be performed correctly?!
Having said that, all this stuff is really expensive, so I don't know who would just happen to have six or eight sets of this just lying around.
Youtube has many examples, mostly bad. Frankly, the Marines do this better than any Army performance I've observed.
As far as chaplains go, even though it's ceremonial, you're "armed" so to speak, so I guess that would be for you to figure out. If you're conducting the ceremony also, how will you get ready in time, etc.?

Saber Manual of Arms

The Choice of the Professional Soldier since 1879.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 3:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:33:27 -0400

I'm curious as to what the rule is regarding head gear wear, while holding the sabers, outside...

There are several pictures in this thread, so far....I see Soldiers not wearing headgear, Soldiers wearing berets, and Navy personnel wearing headgear.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 3:33 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:33:56 -0400

You are not allowed to be armed in the Church and yes they count having a sword as armed. I got kicked out of the Chapel at NAS Corpus Christi with a friend who was CDR for this exact reason.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 10 at 2015 3:47 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:47:13 -0400

Stay away from the veil and the train!

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 10 at 2015 3:55 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:55:36 -0400

Used the sword or sabre, or had a sabre arch in a wedding?

Sir, I am old but not that old.

I think a lot is determined by what you, or the groom and...maybe more importantly...what the bride want?

First and foremost, most of the comments relate to the Army. Many principles, however, pertain to all military services.
There are no Army uniform regulations governing the wear of swords or sabers. The closest manual the Army has is FM 3-21.5 Drill and Ceremonies, which details saber and sword manual of arms, but not specific guidance on the wear of the sword and saber.

USE OF THE SWORD AND SABER DURING WEDDINGS:

Check with the officiating clergy to see if the sword or saber may be worn inside of the sanctuary. Some clergy do not allow weapons of any sort on church or synagogue grounds. If the clergy OKs the use of a sword or saber, keep in mind one should never draw the sword or saber inside the sanctuary as it is a place of worship.

The sword arch:
Again, check with your clergy if you wish to perform the sword arch outside the church or synagogue, keeping in mind that some clergy may not allow drawn swords on the grounds and may prefer it to be done at a reception site.
If there is a possibility of rain, and you have planned to have the sword arch outside the entrance (which is a popular location for an arch), you will likely want to move the arch inside to the foyer (but not the sanctuary). Again, check with the clergy ahead of time for this rain contingency.
Tradition dictates that as the bride and groom pass through the arch, the last two bearers drop their sabers or swords, forming a cross to block the path of the couple. The groom then kisses his bride. The crossed swords are raised for the couple to pass through. The bearer on the bride's side, as she passes by, gently swats the bride on the back side and says "Welcome to the Army, Ma'am." Keep in mind that a male Soldier should always escort a woman on his left arm when given a choice, allowing his right hand to remain free to render salutes.
Certainly, keep this in mind as you plan your sword arch. Consider whether the "sword swat" fits the desired purpose of your wedding. At the very least, we recommend that you warn your bride so she can expect it, so that you are not the cause of her embarrassment.

Additional resource discussing the sword/saber arch:
http://www.hudsonvalleyweddings.com/guide/military.htm
Service Etiquette, by Oretha D. Swartz

The sword/saber is often used to cut the wedding cake. If the reception is on the grounds of a church or synagogue, please check again with the clergy.

WEAR OF THE SWORD OR SABER:

The Groom: When a Soldier is under arms ceremonially, he should wear white dress gloves. The gloves present a problem at a wedding, especially during the exchange of rings and during the ceremony when the bride and groom hold hands. Since a Soldier who is getting married has a #1 goal of being a gentleman and honoring his bride, we recommend the groom remove his gloves prior to the wedding ceremony. The gloves can be handed to the best man, who can hold them until the ceremony is over, at which time the groom can put them back on.
Father-of-the-Bride: The Father-of-the-Bride, if wearing a sword ceremonially under arms, will have the same issue discussed above in the Groom section. Many Father-of-the-Bride's enjoy a private time with their Daughter-Bride before the ceremony; it is acceptable to remove your gloves to hold hands during this private time.
The Receiving Line: It is proper to remove your gloves during a receiving line.
Mess Uniform:
The mess uniform is correctly worn in the evening, after retreat.
We recommend wearing a ceremonial belt underneath your cummerbund. The belt will not be visible, although the ceremonial belt leaves less of a "bulge" in front than other belts.
Army Service Uniform:
The Army Service Uniform can be worn at any time of the day.
The ceremonial belt is worn with the ASU.
OTHER SERVICES:
Air Force traditions are generally similar to the Army
Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard: if you have information regarding wedding traditions for these services, see their regulation and guidance.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jun 10 at 2015 3:56 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:56:24 -0400

How best to incorporate? Conduct research and make a decision. There is a lot of history and precedent but at the end of the day it is your wedding.
- Have I used them? Yes, used at my own wedding 19 years ago.
- Limit to MOS or branch? No, why would it be.
- Appropriate for groom who is a chaplain? Yes, why would it not be.
- Where are swords obtained? Talk to your installation chaplain who should be able to point you in the right direction.
- Procedure for use? Standard drill and ceremony commands.
- Significance of movements? Ensure last man in the arch taps the bride on the butt as she passes through and says "welcome to the Army, Mrs. Smith".
- Worth the hassle? Only you can answer that question.
- Tips or direction? If it is important to you or your spouse to be then do it. It is your wedding. If not then don't do it.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jun 10 at 2015 4:02 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 16:02:04 -0400

I think the use of sabers at military weddings is a great tradition and I think it appropriate for all branches, to include the Chaplain Corps.

I had the arch of sabers (both inside the church and, later, as we were leaving, outside the church). It made for a very memorable experience and one that not very many people have seen.

My sabers were obtained from the Army ROTC Detachment at the University of Alabama. Later, when I was assigned to the cadre of the Army ROTC Detachment at the University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, we used to allow cadets and military personnel to sign out sabers for use in weddings. I think that many ROTC Detachments still have sabers that folks can borrow. As you are at Ft. Gordon (I live in Augusta, by the way ... Evans, actually), you might check with GRU (I think they have an ROTC Detachment) or with one of the local high school Army Junior ROTC Detachments. Certainly the University of Georgia in Athens or University of South Carolina in Columbia (both within easy driving distance) would have some.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 4:14 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 16:14:27 -0400

I have never had the opportunity to use as part of a military function, but do quite frequently as part of the Knights of Columbus Honor Guard. Just as the photo shows, protocol has you create the archway as the guest(s) of honor exit. Prior to their exit, you hold the sword at attention, or ready. Once they start processing towards the exit, you raise to salute, & then finally make the arch when they walk past you.

Seeing as how the honor guard with the KofC tries to mirror, as closely as it can, military tradition, I think it would be similar.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 11 at 2015 11:17 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 11:17:02 -0400

Make sure the sword is in good shape. I didn't know mine wasn't at a Change of Command so when we got the "Officers, draw swords" I snapped mine out and the blade kept going only to impale itself into the podium. When everyone looked at me, the butt knob fell and rolled around much longer than physics would allow. Turned out it was a manufacturer defect in the hilt being cross threaded. Didn't matter. The reason was I'm an Ensign.

The curse continued when I deployed to Antarctica. Eating dinner my hand dropped down to the metal tray only to fling the fork back over my shoulder. When I turned around, the Skipper was handing my fork back with his cake desert attached saying "Kev, this shit has got to stop". All I could do then is stand up and take a bow to the delight of all. It took a while to offload the nickname "Blade". The curse seemed to move on to find a new victim.