The Army of the 1989 versus the Army of 2014. If there are any old tymers still on active duty/and former AD please share your thoughts.

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 22:39:27 -0400

Well to be honest I am at the end of my career 1989-2014. There has been a lot of changes, to remember those days of past years hold a special place in my heart the 1980s and early 1990's. The Army so much different than when I joined. Here are some thoughts.

And there I was PV1 Davis: Panama had just begin when I was in Basic Training at FT. Sill OK
I never thought I would do 25 years and 3 days .
The Army of the 1980s taught me discipline, values, training, morales and beliefs.
Respect of the uniform was a must, spending hours shining your boots, ironing your uniform and getting ready for in-ranks inspection.
I remember marching to and from the motorpool and being locked in with a gaurd.
I remember TRAINING a whole lot in the field, every day in the woods/field during the week and weekends. You never saw the ordely room. If you did you was shaking in your boots. (LOL)
I remember being at parade rest for the E-2 and so forth up the ranks.
I remeber taking home 490 dollars a month as a private, I actually lost money coming into the Army vs. my fast food job in 1989.
I remember the RESPECT OF THE VIETNAM SOLDIERS, the 1980s Soldier teaching me responsibilites of adulthood.
When you saw a Soldier back in those days before Panama with a combat patch, you showed the utmost respect, because conflicts were rare.
I miss them days and just to pay RESPECT TO THE SOLDIERS who are still in from the 1980s or earlier, I DEARLY THANK YA'LL from the bottom of my heart for training me and serving "DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY " for all those years and being a Soldier. I will miss talking ole school fiddle/faddles....etc.. with the old tymers in the formations that are still in 25+ years and up.

WHEN I RETIRE ON DECEMBER 31, 2014, ALL I CAN SAY WAS "I WAS A SOLDIER." The best job I have ever had in my LIFE.

I DEDICATE THE SOLDIER REQUEST TO ALL THE LEADERS WHO MADE ME SFC JOE DAVIS. THIS WAS MY DREAM "THE SOLDIER'S REQUEST!!

A Soldier's Request

Treat me with respect, Sergeant.
For no heart in all the world is more loyal than the heart of an
American soldier. Do not beat my spirit with your words, Sergeant.
For though I will do what you demand, your guidance, patience,
And understanding will more quickly teach me to
“Be, Know, and Do.”

Speak with me often, Sergeant. For the praise and counseling you
give is expected.
I am an American Soldier, expecting to be trained. Discipline must be
a part of my life.
Train me for the elements, Sergeant.
For I must learn to fight and win in the cold, the wet, and the desert.
Those who would be enemies will use these elements.
I must be prepared.
I ask no greater glory, Sergeant, than to defend our country and our way of life, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Allow me that privilege, Sergeant…..train me.
Provide me the necessities of food and drink, Sergeant.
Train me to be self sufficient, that I may lead the way, and stand ready, willing and able to protect you, with my life if necessary, should your life be in danger.
Train me, Sergeant, that one day I too can be called Sergeant,
Trainer of soldiers, Backbone of the Army. Train me to accept those responsibilities that are yours.
Train me to train my soldiers to be the greatest defenders of freedom in the world.
Sergeant, train me to be a Sergeant.
I shall leave this Army knowing, with my last step and my last breath, that my fate was always safest in your hands
Sergeant, train me
That I too can earn the title “Sergeant".

http://www.ausa.org/resources/nco/training/armytraditions/prayers/Pages/ASoldier'sRequest.aspx

Response by SSG Jeffrey Spencer made Aug 1 at 2014 10:52 PM

SSG Jeffrey Spencer — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 22:52:46 -0400

Ouch! Old timers start in 1989? I got out after 8 years in 1984.

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Aug 2 at 2014 4:24 AM

SSG Pete Fleming — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 04:24:40 -0400

Great post! Some will agree some will not... Those who enlisted after 911 also deserve great respect... We are an all voluntary force and have maintained a strong military despite congress.

I, just like you, were trained from Vietnam era Vets, not all of them of course. But the Army has changed a lot... I entered in '89 and saw the cutbacks after the Gulf War and the realignments of the mid-90's. Thinking Somalia was such a huge event (it was for those there). The Balkans, Haiti, Africa... The changing to the beret, and learning how to wear it... (Who remembers the rumors that the shortage of berets was because they were made in China?) Then 911 happened and changed us all...

Though I do respect anyone who serves, willingly joins during a time of war no less, from the combat troop to the rear support However the soldier of today can't relate to spit shined boots, starched uniforms, and no PC stuff. The Army was a great place! (Not trying to start the which branch is better debate, all Vets deserve the greatest respect!)

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Aug 2 at 2014 6:04 AM

MSG Wade Huffman — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 06:04:48 -0400

SFC Davis, Congratulations on your career and upcoming retirement. The Army is, indeed, much different than it was when you entered in 1989 (and when I entered in 1983), and that's NOT a bad thing.

Remember back when we were young soldiers and we'd hear our seniors talking about how terrible this new group of soldiers (US) were? Well... when THEY were young in service their seniors were saying the same thing. And these young soldiers coming in now?... those who become careerists, they'll be saying the same as well. It's just the natural order of our business.

The Armed Forces MUST remain in a somewhat constant state of change to remain a viable force in the world. Sometimes these changes are evident to us immediately, sometimes these changes are much more subtle, but in either case it's human nature to want to resist those changes and think of them as bad things. (not talking about changes like wearing a beret or getting (yet another) new cammo pattern here; I'm sure most of you understand where I'm going).

We look back at all the things that were with a feeling of nostalgia, and there is nothing wrong with that, but as you near retirement, try a little experiment. Instead of thinking back at what you liked better then, think back to the way things were when you entered and then think forward to the things that are BETTER NOW... there are a lot of them, I assure you.. and guess what? YOU had a part in those changes!

Again, Congratulations on your upcoming retirement, and and early welcome to the ranks of the retirees!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 11:40 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 11:40:35 -0400

I was active duty from March 1989 to July 2001 (June/July 2001 was terminal leave). I see games happening now that happened back in the early 90s with the drawdown...... the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Having said that, I now regret going Reserve in 2001. It's not lost on me that I would probably be a retired MSG or SGM (not CSM) by now if I'd stayed active duty.

Response by MSG Brian Breaker made Aug 2 at 2014 8:29 PM

MSG Brian Breaker — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 20:29:50 -0400

Well said SFC Davis. I recall the good ole days. I hope that I can give those same memories to my Soldiers that Vietnam Vets gave me.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 9:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 21:09:37 -0400

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL, I agree with everything you stated. It'll be 23 years when I retire in a little over a month but it's been an amazing journey.

We definitely need to get together with some other Hood personnel and have a drink.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 9:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 21:56:19 -0400

I have always respected ALL SM, no matter what year they came in. But I do have to admit, I thought the Soldiers from the 70s and 80s were a lot cooler than the ones of today. I think the Soldiers of today need to have a sitdown chat with the Soldiers of yesterday so they can truly appreciate all they have

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 7:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 07:37:18 -0400

I first joined the infantry back in 86. I remember the training was tough and the fun times with the guys memorable. We trained hard, we partied hard. We had camaraderie. Today it is all about me. We as privates made less than a typical car payment now. When us guys in the barracks were broke towards the end if the month, we pooled our money together to guy beer, smokes, pizza whatever on the weekend. We travelled together before this battle buddies thing existed. We bonded from the simple fact we were all in the same boat. There was no cut throat atmosphere and over attention to the mundane like we have now. They didn't kick out good Soldiers because they were an item of a budget cut but keep dirt bags past their ETS because they chose an MEB to avoid UCMJ. Sorry it became a rant but you get the picture I hope.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Aug 3 at 2014 10:36 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 10:36:54 -0400

Well said brother, I retired last year after 26 years in uniform, so I KNOW of the discipline and respect of which you speak as I too experienced it! It was tough at times early on when I retired, with "no mission" to execute daily, but I son realized that it was/is a new generation of Soldiers time to shine! Congrats on your upcoming retirement and best wishes for your future endeavors!!!

Response by SFC James Verdejo made Aug 3 at 2014 12:52 PM

SFC James Verdejo — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 12:52:15 -0400

SFC Joe Davis,
VERY well said and I know EXACTLY how you feel. I first joined is Jan 1981. Did 1 year in the reserves cause I was only 17 when I signed up. After 1 year in the reserves I transferred to Active duty in 1982 and became a 15E (Pershing Missile Crewman). Spent 8 GLORIOUS years in that MOS before it was terminated due to the SALT II treaty. Spent 3 more years on AD then got out in 1993 with the VSI/SSB draw down. I chose SSB and 3 yr's in the National Guard. THAT turned into 12 yrs in the guard and my First deployment during OIF III. Upon DEMOB at FT Polk in 05, found out I could request transfer back to AD and did just that. Spent 7 yrs with 1st CAV (HOOAH) and now after all this time closing it out here at Fort Leonard Wood. On 1 APR 2015 I will be retiring after 34 yrs in uniform (24 Active). I've meet some amazing people in my travels and served with some great SOLDIERS. I've gone from Vietnam era OD uniforms to ACU's, From the Bannana Suit to the APFU.

Many things have changed in the Army, and many things will. But the one thing I have learned is that THe ARMY, is one of the Greatest Organizations in the World and the life lessons you receive make you THE top 1% of the Human race.

We all have our reasons for serving. I am HONORED by your service and All Soldiers Past, Present, Future. Enjoy your retirement and remember, NO ONE is ever "Really" retired.

Response by SPC Richard White made Aug 3 at 2014 4:47 PM

SPC Richard White — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 16:47:50 -0400

I served back in that time period and there have been so many changes and I have to say many were not for the good. For instance The Armor training school being moved from Ft. Knox to (hack,Spit) Benning.At Benning the tanks aren't even allowed to go off the roads for training.Also you haven't trained unless you have hiked Misery, heartbreak,and Agony.I have been through Ft. Knox twice, the first time as an ROTC cadet and the second as an Armor Crewman.
Conflicts were rare and one of my buddies went to Panama and I still have respect for him.
We had espirit de Corp. You shined your boots,pressed your uniform and made sure your equipment was ready for inspection.
Your trainers were those who had been to places such as Vietnam and they made sure you knew what you needed to in order to survive.
It seems like todays soldiers really have no clue as to what Army life is all about.
Living in WW2 barracks,hauled around in cattle cars,guarding your post with an axe handle.
I never saw combat but I am a Cold War Veteran and if it wasn't for the Cold War Veteran the USA would be a very different place today.

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made Aug 3 at 2014 10:22 PM

SFC Stephen Carden — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 22:22:42 -0400

I went to BCT in 1988, so I caught the tail end of the 1980's and ALL of the 1990's and 2000's. I will retire next April with 21 years active and 5 years Guard/Reserve time. I remember a lot of stuff from those early days: working hard and partying harder, when the US dollar still went a long way in Germany, when Korea was still like the wild west, Sunday nights shining boots and ironing BDUs, the scary days of the drawdown after the Gulf War, the crazy days in Europe after the wall came down, seeing a US Army pilot being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu on the front page of the Stars and Stripes, beer machines in the barracks! But above all of the other stuff that I remember, what I remember most is that there was WAY less stupidity. Back then, we didn't have stuff like GOs acting like PFCs, new uniforms every other year, political correctness for everybody, online classes that you do over and over again, cutting Soldier's pay and benefits while purchasing equipment that we don't need, Soldiers with no discipline (well, we had them but they didn't last long), officers with no discipline. Ridiculousness is what we have today that we didn't have back then. Guess what people? This is the Army. If you don't like how we do things, there's the door. When did it become OK for every other person in the Army to demand that the Army change to fit their needs, and the Army actually does it? We used to have the Army way and everyone adapted to THAT. Much simpler that way.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2014 3:38 PM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 15:38:15 -0400

I served in the National Guard from 1984-1996. 15 months ago I returned to the Guards. I feel like I have time warped into a parallel universe at times. Back in the '80s if someone saw a box of pop tarts in my pack out in the field I would be racked over the coals, now there is an endless supply in the chow tent. During down time in the field I see Soldiers video chatting with people back home and listing to music. I had to hide my walkman so the 1SG wouldn't confiscate it. I think the Army has figured out that a well fed Soldier will do just about anything you ask. The whole shift to the modular army has been an adjustment too.

However, the biggest change has been when I go in public. In 1985 people in my unit wouldn't get National Guard license plates because people would trash your car. Today, I have people thank me for me service and even offer to pay for my meals on a regular basis. In the 1980s people would not even accept military ID to purchase beer. Now the airlines wave bag fees and hotels give you discounted rates.

On a serious note though, I see an Army today that is older and wiser because of what it has been through. Read about, or think back to if you were there, Granada, Somalia, Panama, and the 1st gulf war and you see how unprepared we were. We focused and trained to fight the wrong war with the wrong equipment. I was on activity duty with the guard in when fought Iraq the first time. Organizational chaos ensued because the Guard was not prepared. I only pray that when the next round comes the military hasn't cut so many senior NCOs and company grade officers that we make the same mistakes all over again.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2014 12:05 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 00:05:31 -0500

I enjoy reading the stories and views from you old timers. Hope to someday have my own.

Response by CSM Michael Lynch made Dec 17 at 2014 9:49 AM

CSM Michael Lynch — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:49:41 -0500

It has been a long time and a lot of changes good and bad. 1981 in FT Sill for OSUT with a SFC Baker a Vietnam Era Drill, who you could have swore though he was still there and despised every newbie in front of him only later to find out there was a heat in the man too.

Running PT in combat boots and fatigues ( now wondering why knees, ankle and back aren't quite right) 25 Mile Ruck marches, 5 mile BN runs, many rotations to NTC always during the hottest times.

PT Uniform changes form the Banana suit to the black and gray and SNEAKERS (yeah). Not to mention the focus of leaders through the 30 years 1 day and the Army's focus on everything from training to taking care of family and Soldiers. Leadership school changes and I could go on for hours.

When given the chance to voice your opinion and give input on changes allow your self and your Soldiers to answer, SOUND OFF because you can affect Big Army changes that affect you, your Soldiers and your families. Dec 1981-Jan 2012. The best years of my life, SO FAR. Salutes and Respect to all of you OLD and NEW to our Army.

Response by LCDR Doug Nordman made Dec 17 at 2014 12:17 PM

LCDR Doug Nordman — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:17:57 -0500

Speaking as a guy who began his career in 1978, it's disheartening to see those of you who started during the 1980s referred to as "old timers".

We may grow older, but we don't have to grow up...

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2014 2:42 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 14:42:00 -0500

I entered in 1989, no stress cards, we had drill sgts in AIT . My AIT was 32 weeks I was pretty sick of drill sgts by then but they did loosen up on us a bit towards the end. To me it seemed the Army entrusted you to be an adult back then where as now there is lots of hand holding. I don't know if I can quite explain right, it is just different now.

Response by MSG John Wirts made Dec 17 at 2014 10:28 PM

MSG John Wirts — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 22:28:32 -0500

I remember double timing through the sand to the beach ranges on Ft Ord.
I never thought I would make 43 years 6 months, and Retire.
The Army of the 60s taught me discipline, values, perseverance, and honor. Values, morals, and beliefs were taught in family and school.
I remember working 5 days a week and preparing for inspection on Saturdays.
I remember standing in the pay line to draw $78.00 a month cash.
When I separated from AD , joined the National Guard, and went to college, those of us who had served or were serving were looked down on, as inferior.
Now people thank anyone who is or has served for their service.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Dec 17 at 2014 11:02 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 23:02:41 -0500

I signed delayed entry in 1986, came in 1987. Army, Army Guard, Air Guard and Air Force. I am almost 1 year out from retirement. (1 mar 16). Military as a whole has changed. Some good, some not so good. I have deployed to Storm, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Always done the best job I could. Am looking forward to standing aside and giving the reins over to the up and coming. Good times, not so good times... It all contributes to who/what I am. No regrets.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Dec 18 at 2014 2:34 AM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 02:34:45 -0500

I first joined in '87, right out of school. I went through OSUT at Ft. Lost in the Woods. Oh there is a HUGE difference between 2014 and 1989. For starters, our drills were able to (and did often), beat the crap out of us. I really mean it, I got slapped, punched, kicked, poked...you name it. I tell you what, we did what we were told to do, when we were told to do it. I was issued a OD green Vietnam era uniform. I drove jeeps, deuce and a half, 5 ton...all manual. I remember when the HUMMV was brand new and NOT up armored. BDU's...summer and winter. I made mad cash shinning boots for my battles. We had NO civilians working anywhere...green suiters took care of green suiters. If you effed up, there was no 4856, NCOs back then had creativity and made it so you never wanted to eff up again. You made friends with supply and the cooks and when you were in the field, you prayed for those wonderful green powdered eggs...because they were hot. MRE's back then SUCKED bad...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 5:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 05:31:56 -0500

I went to basic in January 1986 (Ft. Knox, KY 19D OSUT). I don't remember the drills laying hands on us physically. But I do remember being smoked numerous times and numerous other times after evening chow, being yelled at with language that you wouldn't repeat at the dinner table to name a few. I remember shining boots and pressing my BDU's for morning formation and guard mount.

Things have changed so much since then. Today's Soldier is better led, better trained than when I went to Desert Shield/Storm. But I don't think they are better Soldiers in the overall sense of the word. We as an armed fighting force has become too dependent on technology (GPS, PowerPoint etc.). I can lay a map in front of a brand new Soldier fresh out of AIT, ask them to tell me what terrain feature is at a certain coordinate and they will more than likely sit there and look at me like I just landed on Earth.

In the 80's and early 90's it seemed Soldiers had more ability to solve problems, adapt, improvise and overcome. Now, the first thing they do is reach for their iPhone when confronted with a problem.

This is just my opinion though. I miss the old Army.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 10:52 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 10:52:21 -0500

I was never in the Army in the 80's but my dad was. I actually got him into the Guard a fee months ago and he HATES how the new Army is. He also saw the transition beginning in the early 90's(he enlisted 1982) but he would have never thought about how unsat some if these new soldiers are nowdays. The funny thing is that with me being in the Marine Corps, i have more in common with his old Army dog upbringing than my little brother who has stayed in the Army. We just have that rough and tough spirit and I believe now is the time we need it, we don't need this soft warm and fuzzy military.

Response by SSG Peter Muse made Dec 19 at 2014 8:45 PM

SSG Peter Muse — Fri, 19 Dec 2014 20:45:52 -0500

So well put. As an 80's soldier - young 64C, I remember so many influencers who served in Vietnam and were still around during that transformation. One SP5 Rufus Dye, Army trucker who did the deal in Nam used to share those times with me..they raised me in that environment. Yes, and those right shoulder patches were real..and respected because they were becoming a rarity. Big Rufus was huge and by today's standards very overweight but back then they said; when you're humping ammo boxes on your back, you need a strong guy sometimes. He more than pulled his weight - ran the night mail from Nurnberg to Frankfurt..an all night run 4 days a week..it was sweet but he earned it.. had 18 yrs in when I met him in 84. I put the uniform away in 95 but kept the Army as my employer and will always be close to that family. Thanks for your service, SFC Joe S. Davis Jr. , all 24 yrs and 3 days. Almost a youngster to me but certainly a fine leader who we can all be proud of.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jan 4 at 2015 2:27 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 14:27:18 -0500

That is long after I left ..we were working on putting automatic sear pins on our clubs...

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jan 4 at 2015 7:03 PM

SSG Mike Angelo — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 19:03:15 -0500

1989 I was an instructor at Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD...Panama was a snap shot. At this point in my career, I was a new dad...with kids born in 87 and 88. Army-wide downsizing was going on. At the same time, people were being promoted over me, who have served under me as well. With that, I accepted my career choices and being an instructor did not have the same impact as compared to 10 years prior.

There were few Vietnam veterans in 1989. Not like when I first joined the army in 76...back then there were lots of Spc 4s, Cpls, Sp5s and Spc6s. In 1989, there were a few SSG/E-6s but most were E-7s/SFCs to SM/E-9s and warrant officers.

The closer one is stationed to DA or Wash.DC the more political things got.

In CONUS and in the early 1990s, Gulf War I started, the reserves were called in and people reported in waves...when things settled down, SMs processed out and went home...those that were promoted were opting out with severance pay and lump sum ...no medical. Even with Somalia heating up, I was sent to Cairo to train the folks there on a MAAG; military assistance. Military mobile training teams became trendy and that was the path I took, or ended up...

Units that I served and supported in USAEUR in the 70s and early 80s where rotated back to CONUS and I had the opportunity to train them as well. It was good duty.

Not so popular...US contractors, both DoD and private were greedy or their organizational systems became so complex that the DoD had to restructure the military industrial complex...It was cheaper to send in a military team to train foreign partners and domestic units...also it was cheaper to buy a hammer at Wal Mart than order through the GSA catalog for SKOs, sets, kits and outfits.

For me, 1989 ... My contribution to the service was volunteerism. Back in the day, I was told never volunteer...But I saw an opportunity to step up, took initiative on any job, task or detail before it was asked because I did not want to be that dead weight or occupy space on that long tail of the dog. I ended up on some interesting and challenging projects... Reclassification was not an option for me. Staying busy and focused to the task at hand allowed me to retire with over 20 years active duty.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Jan 5 at 2015 8:35 AM

SSG Gerhard S. — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 08:35:53 -0500

I have a few remembrances from my active duty days (1983-1986). Working out of the old WW II barracks at Ft. Devens, Jumping the T-10 Parachute from Uh-1 Helicopters. Rappelling with a single Unlocking steel caribiner and two green ropes. 4 man rooms with one bathroom per floor. No computers or video games, no Cable TV in the rooms. No cell phones. DI's that weren't afraid to get "in your face" or swear.....

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 1 at 2015 7:09 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 19:09:11 -0400

We respected rank back then. SFC Davis if you will get a VA rating I want you to message me since I have gone down that road. When are you retiring?