Posted on Nov 8, 2014
COL Paul Ciminelli
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https://twitter.com/pciminelli/status/ [login to see] 80083968

See this recent article. We find this forum one of the most difficult to get consistent positive results except for minor record corrections. They seem incapable or unwilling to deal with the difficult issues.
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SGM Robin Johnson
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Edited >1 y ago
I agree this is a huge and troubling problem. I read the same article and have started a White House Petition to change the BCMR guidelines. Please click on the link and fill in the few blocks to sign the petition, then share the link as widely as possible, with instructions to others to click the link and fill in the blocks to sign the petition (people seem to think sharing the link signs the petition.) Hopefully this will prompt change. Thank you for helping our disenfranchised Veterans! https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/new-guidelines-board-correction-military-records-when-reviewing-personality-disorder-discharges-2001/n6NVh9hq
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SGT Information Technology Specialist
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Edited >1 y ago
I am about to submit a BCMR packet, then submit it to the ADRB if the BCMR doesn't go well.

I would like someone who has experience with these boards to review my packet. My packet is about 90% complete, I just need to write my personal statement.

I would also welcome any senior legal advisers (JAG corps current/veteran) who would like to review it.

My goals are this:

1. To get fresh eyes and perspective on the issues and points.
2. To scrutinize my evidence contradicting the discharge.
3. To obtain new points/advice that I did not address.

So, if you are interested let me know.
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PO1 Rudy Lopez
PO1 Rudy Lopez
8 y
You should probably do the Discharge Review Board first, because the Board for Correction can overturn a DRB decision, but a DRB cannot overturn the BMCR; if your claim is a discharge related matters.
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SSG Robert Burns
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I've personally had 2 positive outcomes with them.
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The Board for Correction of Military Records (BCMR). Always a difficult if not impossible route.
COL Senior Account Executive
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This timing is interesting as I just got a denial from the ABCMR for a case I brought forward. My case in a nutshell was simple, I was selected in Sep 2010 by a PVB for promotion to O-4, the results of which were announced in Jan 2011. I had a colleague of mine on the same board and he pinned with DOR of Jan 2011. My position that I was input for had a UMR change (through no fault of my own) and so we had to go back to HRC and show that the position still existed and it was just a diff para/lin number than before. That process took several months and when they accepted it, they didn't backdate my DOR to Jan, they made it Apr 2011. I simply asked that in the interest of fairness, that my DOR be backdated to Jan so that I was promoted with my peers on that board. They had a member of HRC contact me about it and HRC sent a letter to the board saying I was not unfairly impacted with a later DOR. I countered that and said I was impacted because I am trying to put in for the Mar 2015 PVB Board to O-5. My DOR of Apr will not allow for that. Their conclusion is that they did nothing wrong by promoting me later than my peers on the same board. They stated that they acknowledged I would be affected and not considered by the Mar 2015 PVB but that my promotion was still conducted according to regs and that there was "insufficient evidence to show that (I) was treated any differently than other officers who may also have been affected by similar UMR changes before the promotions were finalized." Basically, yeah you were negatively affected but it's possible (but unlikely) other people were also negatively affected so there is no error or injustice. What do you all think? Should I move forward with a congressional? Even if they backdate my promotion by three weeks I will be eligible for the Mar 2015 board. I don't want adverse action but I've always taught my folks to stand up for what's right, and this is one of those cases. :( Guidance appreciated!
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COL Senior Account Executive
COL (Join to see)
>1 y
Let me add that my case is nothing in comparison to those affected in this article, in fact they said that changing a date was one of the things they thought COULD be fixed and yet I couldn't even do that :(
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SGM Robin Johnson
SGM Robin Johnson
>1 y
Sir, I recommend that you at least attempt to have this corrected now. It is far easier to get it fixed proactively through appropriate channels than to attempt to fix it retroactively by BCMR. When you say 'HRC' to whom in what position are you referring? If you have not elevated this through channels all the way through HRC to THE Army G1 that would be the first step. Go online to http://www.armyg1.army.mil. On the sidebar you will find links under leadership for the G-1 and another link under organization showing the org chart for the G-1 command structure. That should help you understand how you would follow their chain of command in requesting relief in this matter. You should also ensure YOUR chain of command is fully informed about this matter all the way up to your first GO. No GO likes to find out from a fellow GO that an officer under his or her command is seeking assistance in resolving an issue about which he or she had no knowledge. Your GO may even be able to intervene on your behalf. Hope this helps. If you would like more specific information, feel free to send me a personal message.
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SSG Tim Everett
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Who runs the BCMR? Is it civilians? Can we get a couple of old-school Sergeants Major and First Sergeants to take over?
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SGM Robin Johnson
SGM Robin Johnson
>1 y
Three senior level civilians on the board itself (the ones who have an average of 3 minutes and 45 seconds per record to make a decision on a request), and 43 civilian staff members (the ones who read the requests, which can be hundreds of pages long, and compose a summary and recommendation for the board.) Although some of the staff are Veterans, it is not a requirement.
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SSG Tim Everett
SSG Tim Everett
>1 y
Outstanding, thank you SGM Robin Johnson for the response. The last line is what I chose to zero in on after careful consideration. In a perfect world, how feasible would it be to suggest requiring the three senior-level civilians have some sort of military experience? I mean, we're talking about the records of military members. To me it doesn't make sense for politicians to tell us how to fight a war, therefore it also doesn't make sense for civilians to judge a military record. I sort of feel like that 3:45 would be better served having a military background to help make a more informed decision.
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SGM Robin Johnson
SGM Robin Johnson
>1 y
SSG Everett, I am in total agreement with you that the members of the board should have a military background. In fact, I believe they should have been senior military leaders. There is a distinct advantage to the perspective that comes with service at the strategic level, or even prolonged leadership experience at the tactical level. The longer you serve, the more situations you are exposed to and the more experience you gain dealing with the less known and arcane 'catch-22' policies and regulations affecting Soldiers (at least, most actively engaged leaders experience this.)
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1SG Michael Blount
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COL Paul Ciminelli - so much for the Army Values
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SGM Senior Adviser, National Communications
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COL Ciminelli, like all boards, it is not a permanent tribunal, but one where members are detailed. You get the same thing on physical disability boards. Very inconsistent.
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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COL Paul Ciminelli Suggestions? As noted in the article, this is a long standing issue. Where do we go from here?
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SGM Robin Johnson
SGM Robin Johnson
>1 y
I agree this is a huge and troubling problem. I read the same article and have started a White House Petition to change the BCMR guidelines. Please click on the link and fill in the few blocks to sign the petition, then share the link as widely as possible, with instructions to others to click the link and fill in the blocks to sign the petition (people seem to think sharing the link signs the petition.) Hopefully this will prompt change. Thank you for helping our disenfranchised Veterans!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/new-guidelines-board-correction-military-records-when-reviewing-personality-disorder-discharges-2001/n6NVh9hq
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