The Bronze Star Medal: Military Misconceptions

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:01:11 -0400

There are many awards that the military bestows on their service members but none hold more disdain than the Bronze Star. You will find resentment among the ranks for young officers in staff who receive this award while other soldiers are fighting on the front in the Global War on Terror. We often ask how this could happen, but it is not quite that simple.

The Bronze Star Medal was authorized in 1944 by President Roosevelt. There was no “V” device at the time of inception. The concept of the medal came from GEN George Marshall with the intent of awarding it to those who fought on the ground, particularly the infantry. He wrote that the infantry “lead miserable lives of extreme discomfort and are the ones who must close in personal combat with the enemy.” This led to the Bronze Star Medal being awarded, retroactively back to 1941, 395,380 times during WWII according to the Army Institute of Heraldry. The Bronze Star Medal was also awarded to any soldier with a Combat Infantry Badge or a Combat Medic Badge. It didn’t necessarily tie a single act or achievement beyond serving as an infantryman who fought during the war, thus making it a service award.

The Bronze Star Medal was also awarded for acts of heroism during the war. A year after the medal was approved, the “V” device was introduced to designate a single act of heroism or valor from those who purely served in the infantry in combat during the war. Of the most notable soldiers who were awarded a Bronze Star Medal, twice, was Audie Murphy. Of his two Bronze Stars, one was for valor and one was for service.

Moving to other wars after WWII, we saw 30,359 BSMs being awarded in Korea. At that time, the Army did not appear to track how many were awarded with valor. The first war to track the “V” device separately was Vietnam with 170,626 BSMs with valor and 549,343 for Achievement/Service. Now Operation Iraqi Freedom, from 2003 to 2010, saw 99,886 Bronze Star Medals awarded in OIF for Achievement/Service. In addition to those, there were only 2,459 awarded for valor.

As we can see the Bronze Star Medal was not originally intended for a single act of heroism but for service in the while serving as an infantrymen in combat. Today that award has expanded to include all branches of the Army. If a logistics officer served in Iraq, he may be eligible for the BSM. It is counted among the highest honors one can obtain for service. With a very small quantity of Bronze Star Medals being awarded solely for a heroic act, one should not automatically assume that it is unjustifiably being awarded to soldiers that were not involved in direct action.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Oct 24 at 2014 2:03 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:03:33 -0400

WOW, nice photo! The historical perspective is equally informative and I have witnessed the events the first paragraph. Having a BSM on my rack, I can speak with 100% certainty that when my service and responsibility was worthy of a BSM, I did not receive a BSM. I am wearing a "position held" award of the BSM and value the AIR MEDAL with equal or more respect. That is not the intention of the award, but a result off the command policies and directives of COCOM adjutants and the process. Should everyone deployed receive a medal at all for genuine service and duty performance?

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 2:07 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:07:25 -0400

Very informative post!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 2:14 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:14:35 -0400

I don't resent people who get the medal. I resent the way it is awarded, at least in the USAF. Lt Col = Bronze Star. Capt on the same deployment, in the same location = MSM at best.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 2:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:16:54 -0400

Award Inflation. I understand it, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it nor like it.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 2:47 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:47:42 -0400

Excellent historical background info, Sir. Great explanation of the introduction, concept and award criteria of the award. Unfortunately, I think a lot of soldiers will still harbor disdain even after getting some insight here.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Oct 24 at 2014 2:55 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:55:02 -0400

I got 4 of them. Including the "V". Last one in 1970.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Oct 24 at 2014 2:55 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:55:14 -0400

Great laydown and history of the BSM but I would like to add a few points:
- It is arguable which award holds the most disdain among Soldiers. BSM is high but may not be the highestest. Other possibly high disdain awards are any of the "breathing" medals awarded by time (NDSM National Defense Service Medal), location (KDSM Korean Defense Service medal), event (HSM Humanitarian Service Medal), or campaign medals (ACMCS, ICMSC). A close second are the service ribbons (Overseas Service Ribbon, Army Service Ribbon). Collectively these awards/ribbons make Soldiers look like WWII Soviet Generals.
- There are a limited number of military awards with only broad definitions for guidance that give a wide amount of latitude to local commanders. The good news is local commanders are given a "band" to operate within but the bad news is that the "shot group" used by the commanders can vary widely.
- The above means there is a consistent effort to add more awards to the military awards. Recent examples include a retirement medal and the medal for UAV pilots that was to have been placed above the BSM in precedence (neither was implemented) along with the CAB which was implemented.
- Why an award was initiated and how it is used now usually differ. Therefore the historical awareness is informative but less useful than one would think. Look at how the Purple Heart and Congressional Medal of Honor have morphed over the years. Change itself is not necessarily a bad thing.
- Rank and responsibility. Many Soldiers (and leaders) equate rank with eligibility for award. By AR this is not true but in application there is some truth to this. For peacetime PCS awards (AAM, ARCOM, MSM, etc) I agree that scope of responsibility should be a criteria of consideration for an award. For combat awards (BSM, SS, etc), however, the act alone and not the rank should be the primary consideration.
- The solution to the award problem (as noted above by the BSM) is not to add more awards but to enable a tighter "shot" group by local commanders when they approve awards at the designated levels.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 3:06 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:06:52 -0400

Nice piece of information and very informational .

Response by CPT Brent Eysenbach made Oct 24 at 2014 3:07 PM

CPT Brent Eysenbach — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:07:07 -0400

I became quite disillusioned with the awards system during my time in service.

In garrison our commanding officer (O-5) handed out a certain number of Achievement Medals after training events regardless of any remarkable achievements. We were told to 'find' someone deserving.

While deployed working on end of tour awards it became apparent that there were upper-limit and lower-limit quotas when it came to awards. This seemed to be based on the number and types of awards the other battalions in the brigade were submitting. The perception was that our unit didn't want to be over or under represented in a particular award count.

Even though some NCOs were deserving of BSMs I was told to rewrite them as ARCOMs. I was told to rewrite ARCOMs submitted for enlisted personnel as AAMs or even COAs. Can you believe that! A combat arms MOS during a combat tour and they get a Certificate of Achievement. Gee thanks!

The part that still gets me is how the approving authority pushed it back on the person submitting the award to rewrite it rather than exercise the down-grading option.

Response by SSG Genaro Negrete made Oct 24 at 2014 3:28 PM

SSG Genaro Negrete — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:28:03 -0400

Good info! It's nice to see how different aspects of the military evolve with the times.

I've had many junior soldiers express the same dissatisfaction with the demographic of soldiers that usually get the BSM. I tell them that it's mostly about the scope of responsibility. A 2LT and a PVT on their first deployment have a huge difference in responsibility. Where as the PVT is a subject matter expert on his/her weapon system and specific duties under the guidance and supervision of the team leader, the 2LT is responsible for the entirety of the mission, the personnel, and the equipment used. All under the mentorship of a senior NCO and the scrutiny of a CPT and a LTC...at least. In recent years, that level of mission authority seems to have been pushed down to the squad leader level when conducting COIN operations. (I'd say Vietnam as well, but I don't have any fact or experience to back that up)

Long story short, I tell the soldier if he or she wants to stress over the lives of 34 soldiers and the weight of an unfolding, fluid tactical battlefield, then a SERVICE BSM is in their future. I prefer to put the emphasis on the V device. That is more representative of the common notion of what a BSM is awarded for (according to "hollywood").

It is interesting that the initial intent was for infantry service to be rewarded. It's hard to compare an infantryman's service in WWII and a staff logistician's service in OIF. It's apples and oranges. Both vital to any war, but different in their execution.

Response by SSG John Bacon made Oct 24 at 2014 4:00 PM

SSG John Bacon — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 16:00:18 -0400

And it turned out to be a E-7 and above deployment award. During our last deployment to Iraq no one under E-7 was allowed to receive the award no mater what you were doing. Some Generals don't want to be bothered with reviewing them.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Oct 24 at 2014 4:02 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 16:02:56 -0400

I've seen a fobbit get a bronze star for ordering food from an air conditioned office. This nco never left the fob except to go home. There are many other stories like it about people who had time to write glowing letters about themselves while sitting on the fob. Bronze star means nothing to me now. It's the fobbit medal.

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Oct 24 at 2014 4:34 PM

CPO Greg Frazho — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 16:34:48 -0400

This medal became gee dunk (candy) when they awarded it to Jessica Lynch for being captured. They further diminished it by awarding it to submarine commanders during the beginning of OIF.

Yes, the BSM can be awarded meritoriously, but that shouldn't be its current intent. The Meritorious Service Medal or even a Commendation Medal can fit in for what I feel a lot of BSMs are awarded.

As I said when I was on active duty: I'd rather have a Commendation or an Achievement Medal with a 'V' than a Bronze Star without one. I stick by that.

Response by Sgt Alvin P. Liendo "Tanto" made Oct 24 at 2014 5:06 PM

Sgt Alvin P. Liendo "Tanto" — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:06:46 -0400

Great post 1LT Rosa.

As far as medals and ribbons in general are concerned, they won't even get you a cup of coffee when you get out. To me it seemed they were more of a pain in the ass during inspections when trying to make sure they were evenly spaced or correctly displayed in order, than they were a testament of one's character and ability to accomplish the mission.

I saw many who deserved them not get them for what ever stupid reason, and others who had no business in the military get them simply because of their connections. Medal and ribbon hunters who knew it would help them advance because if it came down to it, that could be the deciding factor between NCO and SNCO, and from SNCO to CWO.

Of course, I was in the rear with the gear as they say, and I may have sung a different tune if I was out front dodging bullets, but For me as an ELINT NCO, I was more concerned with getting my intel as accurate as possible and as quickly as possible, than getting a medal or ribbon for doing it.

I ended 5 years of active service as an E-5, with nothing more than a Good Conduct Medal and 2 NAMs. Most of my achievements are classified, but I can say I am proud to have been part of a team responsible for 25 or so Battle Carrier Group transits with no incidents or critical events, and many successful sorties resulting in a significant reduction in enemy force because of our collection and dissemination efforts.

Thanks for the information sir, it was worthy.

Response by 1SG David Spalding made Oct 24 at 2014 5:32 PM

1SG David Spalding — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:32:48 -0400

Good background story. There are definitely a lot of games when it comes to awards. I am very proud of my Bronze Stars. I feel I earned them. I am also very proud of the Soldiers who were awarded them who deserved them. I know, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference, and some units seem to give them away like candy. $tuff happens. Don't let the Fobbits downgrade the original intent of the award. Those who earned them know who they are, those who didn't and got one anyway...

Response by SPC Matt Johnson made Oct 24 at 2014 6:25 PM

SPC Matt Johnson — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:25:53 -0400

I saw way too many desk jockeys (A.K.A. FOBBITS)that never left the wire let alone the PX get this award. while several of us who where not infantry got shot at and/or blown up on a regular basis driving trucks and running supply convoys only got a coin. So yeah I'd say they is a lot of disdain

Response by MSG David Johnson made Oct 24 at 2014 6:29 PM

MSG David Johnson — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:29:00 -0400

The history behind the medal is interesting. I've seen guys with 4 or 5 of them just for sitting at a computer for JSOC.
My grandfather earned a BSM/V for service in the pacific in WWII, when I was writing up awards for Soldiers I thought back to what it took to earn a BSM/V during those times. The times have changed and the medal criteria has changed with it. Yes, I have seen FOBBIT's with their BSM's but I have also seen Soldiers who worked at night doing route clearance not get them.
I wrote up a BSM/V award recommendation for a Soldier whose civilian Mercedes fuel truck got hit by an IED, this Soldier was on the ground between 15-20 minutes during this complex ambush making sure that those in the other vehicles who were injured got out of the kill zone before getting to saftey.
The award was downgraded because the chain of command above company level didn't beleive a female could have done this. She received an ARCOM/V.

I don't just look at the medal, I look at the person who was awarded the medal, and what it was for. And Yes, I was awarded a BSM for service during my last tour, but I was also awarded a BSM/V.
But I still think back to my grandfathers BSM/V from WWII and think, were my awards worthy, was I worthy? Thats something that is locked away in a compartment along with my love for my grandfather.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 6:30 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:30:16 -0400

I don't disdain the award itself. I have my feelings though towards how all awards as of late have been given based on rank versus actual actions/achievements/service...that in itself is actually another thread on here so I wont go into detail. I digress, when it comes to the BSM I did however feel some people should not have been awarded that (or an ARCOM for that matter) and I know a lot of people that deserved it but didn't receive it based on my second sentence. Think it's time to get back to the black and white of award recommendations and give them IAW with regulatory guidance.

Response by SPC Matt Johnson made Oct 24 at 2014 6:35 PM

SPC Matt Johnson — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:35:07 -0400

the worst was when we had an award ceremony for an E-5 FOBBIT got awarded a bronze star for locating a piece of lost equipment on the FOB while 10 of us who had all been shot at and blown up by IEDs got handshakes and told they were out of coins and would get them when we got back to the states

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Oct 24 at 2014 7:10 PM

SGT Suraj Dave — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:10:28 -0400

If you are e-5 and below and you hold a BSM, I know you did something to earn it. You went through hell to get it. Some units give E-6 and above auto BSM's for EOT, but every unit in the Army it seem's give officer's BSM's for EOT. I am not saying i hold disdain for the people who have it, its just the Officer's version of an AAM to me. Just like the MSM, the officer's PCS award.

I really am not all for that "Responsibility" earns you a BSM. There was some 19 year old PFC who spent sleepless night's in a turret, dodging round's, actually engaging the enemy ..... and he will get an AAM, but the LT who sat in the TOC all day chewing sun flower seed's in the AC is going to get a BSM.... All I am saying is, being NCOIC or OIC of something shouldn't entitle you to an automatic bronze star.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Oct 24 at 2014 7:39 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:39:41 -0400

Did not know the History sir. Thanks.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Oct 24 at 2014 10:50 PM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 22:50:27 -0400

I had no idea.... Thankyou CPT Private RallyPoint Member Info like that is why I'm here on RP.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 11:43 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:43:16 -0400

There are only a couple of medals that someone "earns" for combat, namely the CIB/CAB and Purple Heart. Even though these awards are earned, there is some interpretation of the parameters that must be met. All others are bestowed by a superior approved at various levels. The meritorious Bronze Star is essentially the wartime equivalent of the Meritorious Service Medal. As a side note, granted there is a "V" device, but the first specific valor award is the Silver Star. What I have seen time and time again is a sense of entitlement of "I deserve the Bronze Star" because of X, Y & Z. Now tie these two concepts together: a wartime MSM that is bestowed on an individual. In the end it is subject to interpretation. Many junior officers and enlisted seem to believe they are entitled a Bronze Star simply because they suffered. In the end, we volunteered for this. The additional pay, service medals, and combat patch is about all we are entitled to have. I awknowledge the fact that, generally speaking, the lower the rank, the more direct danger one faces. However, when looking at the award from the standpoint as a meritorious wartime medal, the line has to be drawn somewhere. This line is constantly changing. We start out awarding too many, then the pendulum swings the other way, etc.

I was stationed at a training center. I saw this multiple times where the platoon O/C (now called an observer, coach, trainer or OCT) felt they were entitled to the Meritorious Service Medal. By the way, the MSM is generally the same award that the Senior Task Force Trainer generally receives who is responsible for the entire battalion.

In conclusion, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Most will feel they are entitled to something more than what they received. Remember, it is an award based on someone's evaluation of the individual, usually compared to others, and there are only a few awards, by design, that have objective criteria to earn.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 12:20 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:20:42 -0400

Do you really want to open up this can of worms?

Every Soldier who has worked their ass of during a deployment and has seen this award given to a flunky lieutenant who was a waste of our oxygen supply, lazy and worthless will disagree with you. Vehemently. The fact that you justify this behavior with technical legalese speaks to your intent. Drop this. The arrogance of the officer corps is the worst that I have seen in my 22 years of service.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 25 at 2014 3:06 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 03:06:19 -0400

"But none hold more disdain than the Bronze Star" I'm not in agreement with you on that one Ranger. I'm not a fan of quite a few of the awards/ribbons in use. I'm still a little irked that they give enlisted members (only) the Good Conduct Medal. It seems degrading to me. It might have been necessary for a different time (60+ yrs ago), but that one has outlived it's use. Then again, we are now seperating cocaine users with Honorable Discharges (if they are very well connected) so apparently I am not qualified to see the big picture. I digress.

Response by MGySgt Jerry Suarez made Oct 25 at 2014 3:20 AM

MGySgt Jerry Suarez — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 03:20:13 -0400

Awards are great if given per the awards order ie based off actions not rank. Many Commanders downgrade an award based on an individuals rank which is wrong! Also if my Commander submits me for an award who is his Commander to say I don't deserve it?, because he/she knows nothing of who I am or what I did. Regardless of how an award is written we assume all commissioned officers can articulate their thoughts and vision when writing a summary for an award I mean they all are college grads for the most part so regardless of how an award is written give the damn award if its deserving regardless of rank or gender

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Oct 25 at 2014 8:02 AM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:02:13 -0400

Well, I served in Iraq three times and Afghanistan once. Risk my life more than you can imagine on the dangerous roads of Iraq in two straight years of combat. On 21 August 2004. I was engaged in a complex attack on ASR( alternate route supply) Vernon and Sword by Insurgents. The convoy got hit with small arms, RPG and IEDs. I was leading a convoy of 6 greens and 14 white trucks. I even shot 52 rounds at the insurgents. We didn't lose a single soldier miraclesloy

Response by CW2 Michael Berthiaume made Oct 25 at 2014 8:23 AM

CW2 Michael Berthiaume — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:23:34 -0400

Hooah !

Response by Sgt Kelly Overmyer made Oct 25 at 2014 9:03 AM

Sgt Kelly Overmyer — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:03:06 -0400

Ya, why would it be held in disdain? Have heard it called the zero good cookie. Break it down further enlisted vs officer awards. Then by type

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 11:15 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:15:47 -0400

I am going to have to say that most awards today are done with some creative writing by those who are in command. I have seen people who have gotten purple hearts from a small 1 inch cut on their hand from a piece of shrapnel, I mean really who in their mind would honestly take that purple heart and feel good about it? The Bronze Star to me is another award that is given out to SSG and above like candy, even if they were TOC operations while the ones of us that actually put boots on the ground get an ARCOM. Very few and far between do you actually see a soldier get an award based on their actions, and most of the time it is because that action is made public because of new report or observed by someone who has influence. It is all about the higher ups taking care of each other to make themselves look good, and will not change. Interpretation needs to be taken out what we do in the Military and unless they actually meet the criteria then I am sorry, but you are going to be getting the award fitting your circumstances.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 11:20 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:20:53 -0400

What disturbs me is when many fellow Soldiers talk about how "easy" there job was while deployed. Sure, they were possibly in an "austier" environment, but they had a lot if free time and down time, while meanwhile, in the rear, some of us were working 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week, on a rotating basis, for months, even on holidays.

Response by MSgt John McDowell made Oct 25 at 2014 11:22 AM

MSgt John McDowell — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:22:06 -0400

I think maybe the Navy has a better system for awarding decorations. My problem with the decoration system is how they are used for promotion. Too many points are awarded for promotion for those who just happen to be in a particular place and time rather than leadership abilities. I've seen many NCOs reach higher rank because of this inflated system over much better qualified leaders.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 2:28 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 14:28:36 -0400

since we're on the subject, here is an award story for you. Prior to departing Fort Bragg for Desert Shield/Desert Storm, all of us 1SGs met with the Bn CSM to discuss rear detachment. The Bn had an SFC staying back as Rear-detachment NCOIC. The other 1SGs had an E6 or E7 staying back. When my time came around to say, I said, "SGT (E5) BXXX was the HHB NCOIC. Of course the CSM snaped his head up with a WTH look, as I had several SSGs and 1 SFC who could not deploy with us. I made a long story short, and ended with, "My call Sergeant Major, I'm the 1SG, Best man gets the job, I give a damn about rank. If he has any problem, you have an E7 back here to kick their ass. I won.

During our deployment, we had a Soldier whose trailer caught on fire and was destroyed, they lost everything they had, but fortunately were not hurt. He had a wife and son back here. SGT BXXX took the lead on his own and got them settled into temporary lodging and then he went to work. He went out to different stores in the Fayetteville Mall and got stores to donate new cloths, toys, household goods, furniture, etc. He was interviewed on the local radio and TV news. A fund was started up for this particular Soldier and his family. A local Mobile Home company donated a new trailer for this family...no cost!

As soon as we got back, I wrote SGT BXXX for an MSM for what he did, and of course the Btry Cdr signed it. But when it got to Bn HQs, the Bn XO recommended down grade to ARCOM. After busting into the XOs office with my WTH moment (OBTW, we did get along nor like one another...more personality conflict then anything else), his reply was, "SGT BXXX is only an E5, he's not getting an MSM." So I asked, if he was an E7/E8/ or an officer you would have no problem. He said that was correct. My reply as I picked up the write up with his down grade signature was, "Yep, and you're only a Major, I'm raising this to the Bde Cdr. No need to go into the argue after that, but the CSM escorted me out of the Bn HQs.

I left there and went directly to see the Bde Cdr who I known for some time, plus we were also, violent opponets on the racquetball court when the time would permit. (My ace in the hole). He and the Bde CSM read it, both were aware of it, and felt SGT BXXX's particular action was were deserving. He asked if my Bn XO knew I was coming to see him, I said yes. He picked up the phone and called him and discussed the matter and ended with telling the XO, he felt his disapproval was wrong and why. The Bde Cdr, had his S1 take over the processing and SGT BXXX got the award.

I was in a little hot water with the Bn Cdr for not bringing it to him (he had been on leave at the time and I did not intend to wait), but the Bn CSM backed me up on it and said (Lied) he told me to take it to Bde as he thought the Bn Cdr would hve recommended approval for the award over the XOs recommended downgrade. (OBTW: Bn CSM had recommended approval).

There are times when rank is considered much heavier then the accomplishment of the individual and the award recommended for. Some get it correct, and then there are times unfortunately when Soldiers get screwed.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 2:34 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 14:34:00 -0400

I am waiting for the inception of the Coin of Excellence with "V" device.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 3:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 15:10:34 -0400

1LT Rosa,
First off, I would to say thank you for a very informative post on the history of the BSM. I come from a long military lineage and pride myself on knowing as much as I possibly can about our military history, customs, traditions, and medals. With that said, I found this post to be a very said piece on the history and qualifications for the award. I had heard much of the "disdain" for the BSM before my current deployment from others within my unit and other units. I had heard that the award had become an E-6 and above award, a TOC award, and others. To my own chagrin and disappointment, I never fully researched the award to discount these claims and found myself believing these claims (not doing that again).

After reading this post and the subsequent discussions to it, I now have a deeper and more informed opinion of the BSM. While I do believe that in some respect our award system can be flawed, misused, and abused, I also feel that it is often our leadership's responsibility to push for the awards that are deserved. Such as was seen in the example given by 1SG Mcpherson. I know that if I should receive any awards for the deployment I am on, I will have earned them. If an award is downgraded, so be it, but I will still have pride in the fact that my leadership thought to recognize me. If by some chance I ever earn an award such as the BSM, I will be able to hold my head up and know that I did indeed earn it.

I often think people do as I originally did with the BSM, they hear what others say about it (anything really) and choose to believe it without research or verification. I think we all can use more research and verification in our lives, rather than just being lemmings and following our friends and fellow soldiers off a cliff. This is one of the main reasons I joined RP, to learn from those who are willing to teach me. Thank you sir for being willing to teach me.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Oct 25 at 2014 4:11 PM

SGT Thomas Lucken — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:11:25 -0400

For years the Award System has been questionable! In Desert Storm, depending on the chain of command, whole combat units received a BSM while other units was ARCOMs. Naturally I am talking about the Troops in the Command!

Also, I have seen PCS Awards that were regulated by rank and not by duty! Years back in Korea, a buddy of mine was retiring from Korea (late 80s). They put him in for a MSM as a retirement award, it was sent back down by Division because he was a E-7! Then it was resubmitted stating he was retiring and they miss that part. Well then, all of a sudden it was approved!

Now as all know. You have to submit a write up for the Award besides the Award request. And it was apparent they did NOT read the write up! They based the award, solely on him retiring!!!! Who says the write up was good enough, I know it was but they proved the write up didn't matter.

Response by Capt Andrew Cosgrove made Oct 25 at 2014 5:07 PM

Capt Andrew Cosgrove — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 17:07:51 -0400

In my experience the Corps has solved the problem. You do not see a Bronze star on a Marine for service. It appears to be only awarded for combat actions even though it may be done so otherwise.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Oct 25 at 2014 5:36 PM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 17:36:32 -0400

I received my BSM 12 months after returning from theater, was stationed elsewhere and had no idea. I was completely surprised and honored.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 10:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 22:51:37 -0400

After reading several of the posts present I see that as my introductory line alluded to; this is a can of worms. I do however feel now that this does need to be addressed. Medals awarded as a result of rank is a fact in this present day Army. That is shameful. If you are one of the the officers bucking this trend, then Hooah to you. Then, you might be inclined to feel justifiably offended. Please do not make the mistake my blunt way of writing was indicative of a lack of intelligence or ability to communicate intelligently. Bluntness does not equal a lack of professionalism. My comments were not directed at anyone in particular. What I have seen is the scenario mentioned played out over 3 tours to Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Each time wounds Soldiers who went unrecognized for their valiant and hard earned efforts. If you were unaware, this is the reason that I have lost quality Soldiers over and over again. No, they were not being petty, they expected that they would be duly rewarded for their efforts. When they weren't, they left for the money. That at least compensated.
The history of the award system is accurate. The way in which we determine how they are awarded is what I am calling into question. Please be a part of the solution. The only way to change this is for every one of us to step up and say that this is wrong.

Response by Sgt Daniel V. made Oct 25 at 2014 11:24 PM

Sgt Daniel V. — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 23:24:55 -0400

There are only three awards that carry any weight in my eyes. The Medal Of Honor, The Silver Star, and The purple heart. There are others that are important such as BS w/V and combat action. In the end the most important thing isnt what medals you did or didn't earn. Its about showing up to do the job and doing to the best of your ability. Most of the deserving men and women who have really earned their awards never lived to recieve them.

Response by LTC Earle Bluff made Oct 26 at 2014 1:29 AM

LTC Earle Bluff — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 01:29:31 -0400

I look at the responses, and I empathize, agree, remember the abuse, etc. I have seen Majors and SFCs live like kings in what was considered the "rear," and get BSMs, while those required to do the work, spending many more hours "at the helm, not being awarded anything, in one case, due to personality problems. Instead one Soldier, who was assigned to work outside of his unit, was presented a JSCM, only because his work supervisor (in another branch of service) put him in for it. Then as was also pointed out, some pseudo-leaders "protect the integrity of the award (whatever that means)." During two deployments, I travelled throughout the war zone, and was literally under attack in one location - I did get a BSM for both, but it seemed to be a struggle to get my own people a BSM (it did not bother them as far as I could tell; however, they deserved it - so one gets a MSM one an ARCOM).
If any of these approvers would REALLY take the time necessary to understand the criteria as set out in the regulations, One would HOPE that they would get rid of their own prejudices and believe the recommendations of their subordinates (do I hear "when pigs fly..."). It is not rank-driven! Yet, no matter how I tried to beat this, when recommending, on numerous occasions, awards were downgraded - mainly because of rank! As pointed out, Awards are due to heroism, gallantry, service, which is usually best reflected by the recommender, who in many cases, is on the scene.
Overall valid comments. Thank you for sharing and letting me share, Proverbs 3, vs. 5 - 6

Response by LTC Earle Bluff made Oct 26 at 2014 1:36 AM

LTC Earle Bluff — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 01:36:08 -0400

I look at the responses, and I empathize, agree, remember the abuse, etc. I have seen Majors and SFCs live like kings in what was considered the "rear," and get BSMs, while those required to do the work, spending many more hours "at the helm, not being awarded anything, in one case, due to personality problems. Instead one Soldier, who was assigned to work outside of his unit, was presented a JSCM, only because his work supervisor (in another branch of service) put him in for it. Then as was also pointed out, some pseudo-leaders "protect the integrity of the award (whatever that means)." During two deployments, I travelled throughout the war zone, and was literally under attack in one location - I did get a BSM for both, but it seemed to be a struggle to get my own people a BSM (it did not bother them as far as I could tell; however, they deserved it - so one gets a MSM one an ARCOM).
If any of these approvers would REALLY take the time necessary to understand the criteria as set out in the regulations, One would HOPE that they would get rid of their own prejudices and "add-ons" and not only believe the recommendations of their subordinates, but award based upon action/s (do I hear "when pigs fly..."). It is not rank-driven! Yet, no matter how I tried to beat this, when recommending, on numerous occasions, awards were downgraded - mainly because of rank! As pointed out, Awards are due to heroism, gallantry, service, which is usually best reflected by the recommender, who in many cases, is on the scene.
Overall valid comments. Thank you for sharing and letting me share, Proverbs 3, vs. 5 - 6

Response by SSG Jed Fisher made Oct 26 at 2014 2:50 AM

SSG Jed Fisher — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 02:50:34 -0400

The Bronze Star is too easy to pick on because its official abbreviation is actually BS.

Napoleon Bonaparte started it when he said, “A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.” Then some genius figured out that after they fight long and hard, if you give them a bit of colored ribbon, they stop fighting so hard and long.

(Except for Americans, of course.)

The award is not for the recipient. When someone above me gets an award, it is not a reflection on them, but on the contributions of their subordinates. They know this is true. If they were really, horribly chewed up individuals but still managed to have a high award hung on them, it goes to show how high-speed their subordinates were.

We, the insiders of military culture, have the ability to call anything BS and have the anecdotes to back it up. But awards are for those who see the veterans. For a grateful nation who sees these medals displayed proudly. And the always-humble hero who says, “I got that one just for showing up to work.” They mean it and it’s true, but the uninitiated Civilian observer sees a humble hero and shakes their hand and says, “Thank you for your service,” and they mean it.

Awards are called decorations and that’s what they are. A Christmas Tree does nothing to earn its decorations, and the decorations are not for the tree. They are for those who look upon the tree.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 11:09 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:09:05 -0400

1LT Rosa--agree wholeheartedly. We've turned it into an everybody button/trophy for showing up--IF we like you. Recall those Air Force fellows and certain others awarded a BS for serving in the rear during Kosovo--heck I was in Croatia then in a hostile fire zone uploading ammo opening a former Soviet Port--back in the rear there were captains pulling guard duty--and 24 Video Conferences that seemed pretty pointless to me...many of those people got MSMs and ARCOMS.
However, I posted on another comment about the perceptions about the Bronze Star vs Meritorious Service Medal, since Congress, in it's wisdom, does not allow the MSM to be awarded in a combat zone (yet other medals such as ARCOM, LOM can be + V device).
You left out the fact that anyone mentioned in a WWI dispatch (the standard of recognition such as lesser acts of heroism at the time) was retroactively awarded a Bronze Star.
My dad had several, for actions in Dominican Republic, VN and elsewhere such as Cambodia--which is not named in the citation. He never got a SStar and probably deserved one.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 11:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:35:16 -0400

Yeah I have some disdain for how and who receives the BS but I have just as much anger for who receives the CAB. You have Soldiers that are awarded the BS because of the position they hold and you have Soldiers get awarded a CAB because they heard an explosion. I believe the Army needs to do a review of these awards and a few others and award them to people who actually earned them and either downgrade (BS) or remove them (CAB) for the people that only received because of their position/title or because they heard an explosion, that is just my two cents

Response by SPC Curt Dennis made Oct 26 at 2014 12:33 PM

SPC Curt Dennis — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:33:21 -0400

My father received the Bronze Star in Korea for clearing a DPRK machine gun nest. During my war my platoon sergeant received the Bronze Star because our platoon had no casualties during the 100 hour war. Everyone else in the platoon did NOT even receive a AAM because of some shady practices by schmcks who were couriers from our rear element back in Germany.
That award of the Bronze Star cheapened it for me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 12:38 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:38:19 -0400

Because we've allowed our society to become a place where everyone gets a participation ribbon for showing up. I saw this happen overseas and it truly disgusted me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 11:05 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 23:05:04 -0400

I don't hold much value for a BSM w/out "V" for higher-ups. I watched every person in my BN E-7 and above get one as an end of tour award. Meanwhile my buddy, who went above and beyond to render aid under fire after getting blown up had his BSM w/ "V" get downgraded to an ARCOM w/ "V" and then again to a regular ARCOM.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 7:37 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 07:37:29 -0400

There seems to be a lot of resentment to those that recieve the medal for service as opposed to action. The award is bestowed upon those the award authority deems worthy. Yes, there are conceptions that the award is based on rank, however, if the write up is strong then the award will be approved. As an E-4, I recieved a MSM. I had to prove at almost every board I attended that my award was authorized. It was proof that my command believed in my performance enough to to the approving authority.

We should do our jobs the best we can. If you feel resentment that you were not recognized in the way you felt you should be, remember that when a soldier under your watch does something exceptional and make sure they are recognized. Don't write a "blanket" award for an operation or achievement, individualize and quantify the award to each individual. BSM in any capacity, job well done! Someone in your chain belived in your performance enough to convince a general officer in command that you were worthy.

Response by CSM Randy Lyle made Oct 27 at 2014 8:50 AM

CSM Randy Lyle — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:50:22 -0400

Yes, some of us were Crapped on when we came back from Desert Storm/Shield, If you were not an officer, they might have given you a ARCOM, Which I was a First Sergeant, and all of the others and I that were there, were limited to ARCOM's, But all the Battalion Command, wienies recieved BSM, Which still today I believe that we as the Senior NCO's Were just as responsible for the safety and welfare of all of the Soldiers and Officers. I had two very good Commanders, during my 9 months in Desert Storm/Desert Shield, so I believe that we were really shafted , The Battalion Command got caught bringing back some unauthorized weapons and they still recieved BSM's, I believe that even today General McCaffery did not know that they were getting BSM's to these personnel, and I feel that I as a First Sergeant really got shafted when they were figuring out who they wanted to get what, in the BSM'sI should have also gotten a BSM and I am still paying for this war with my health and other conditions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 10:42 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 10:42:42 -0400

The Bronze star has been treated like an AAM during these past 23 years of war. This award truly meant something once upon a time. When an E7 receives a Bronze star with out leaving the wire while other soldiers are out on convoys, patrols and etc...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 11:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 11:52:25 -0400

I have for years now heard the "devalued" remark regarding the Bronze Star Medal. I received one for service in Iraq from Aug 2006 to Jul 2007 as a very junior E6. I was very surprised by it. I have heard it referred to as the "Brigade Service" Medal and the "Bull S**t" Medal. So, I know that there are a lot of folks that say it has been devalued. In my personal experience, the loudest of the detractors are those who are without. do you find this to be true with your experience? CPT Private RallyPoint Member 1SG Private RallyPoint Member

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 1:39 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 13:39:55 -0400

When I was a LT, I had a squadron commander actually explain his "formula" for computing what end of tour awards he presented. I don't remember the exact metrics, but he'd actually made it a mathematical equation to try and keep things equal and without any shenanigans mentioned above.

Basically, since they were awarded for "meritorious service" it went like this:

Performance of what is expected of an Airman at your rank earns you points.
Junior Enlisted: 1
Junior NCO: 2
Senior NCO: 3
Lieutenants: 1
Captains: 2
Majors: 3

Special events on mission would earn points (for example:)
Satellite breakup: 1
Foreign Space Launch: 2
Missile Event: 3

Additional Duties:
Safety, ADIO, etc.: 1
Instructor: 2
Evaluator: 2
"Back Shop" Instructor / Evaluator: 3

So, for an Air Force Achievement Medal, you'd need say 5 points, Air Force Commendation Medal 10 points, and a MSM 15 points. A Lieutenant may get a Commendation Medal, a Captain an Achievement Medal, it was all in the points.

There's a part of me that thinks it's crazy, and a part of me that thinks it's an interesting concept. Wouldn't work for every career field, but for Space Surveillance it could be applied and functional.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 2:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 14:30:36 -0400

I concur! Having witnessed this first hand it breeds resentment between those that were actually in harms way and those that showed up for work.
Another is the MSM which is awarded most of the time based on the rank of the recipient.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 3:51 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:51:46 -0400

All the comments to this post seem to point to everyone generally accepting the ideas that 1. combat service needs recognition 2. war service is not necessarily the same as combat service 3. valor is more worthy of recognition than service 4. awards are inflated and awarded capriciously

My thoughts on each point:

1. This has been established since the Purple Heart's creation. The creation of the BSM and the CIB and eventually and CMB were to distinguish particular jobs performed in combat versus the others. The Armor/Cav community's 50 year quest for a CIB equivalent resulted in the CAB, but now stripped of the job requirement. Thus, driving over a mine as a finance soldier is equivalent to driving over a mine as an infantry soldier. Combat service is redefined from primary to incidental.

2. War service is different than combat service only because combat is incidental to war (it happens in war). When the BSM was created, most Soldiers performing wartime service would experience combat incidentally to their jobs (e.g. I was driving my truck and I got shot at by the Germans and they killed my driver). Some Soldiers would experience combat as the core of their job. The low rate of enlistment in the Infantry was addressed by GEN Marshall with extra bling to distinguish those who chose that job. That rule hasn't changed. Truckers got killed aplenty in WWII and Korea just as in OIF and OEF.

3. This has always been true but also never been true...depending on your point of view. Look at any general's chest, if they don't have a Silver Star, DSC, or MOH, then every medal that ranks above a BSM is for service as measured by the amount of responsibility and achievement rather than valor. In other words, there are two parallel tiers of medals, one tier for valor and the other for responsibility. Risk of life and limb is never recognized except by the combat patch and imminent danger pay. It is basically incidental to being in the military. The CIB, CMB, and CAB all say that your willingness to risk life and limb has been tested by the enemy (*hence, dishonorable conduct in the face of the enemy was a dis-qualifier for the CIB/CMB). All other recognition is about responsibility and magnitude. That has always been true, regardless of your point of view.

4. Awards, like grades and college degrees, will always inflate if there is career value in them. Enlisted troops get promotion points for awards, thus, everyone plays catch up to make sure their guys don't get screwed, while those that try to be too strict with the criteria get blasted for not taking care of their troops. The PCS award existed long before 9/11. For officers it's a little murkier, but each Service sets the culture of expectations. A BSM in the navy means more than one in the Army, but then again, the Navy deploys a hell of a lot more and many Naval officers don't match their Army/Marine counterparts in terms of responsibility for troops in the junior grades.

All this to say that the BSM means achievement at a certain level of responsibility. A BSM (V) means achievement in an act of valor of a certain magnitude. But at the end of the day, awards aren't objective as much as they are subjective and reflective of the command climates. We give far fewer MOH's and DSC's in these wars than in the past because the expectation of heroic valor got inflated along with everything else. The only way to fix inflation is regulation...and regulation is already on the books, it's just not being followed.

Response by SGT Daryell Ledford made Oct 27 at 2014 4:22 PM

SGT Daryell Ledford — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:22:36 -0400

It was a known fact that if we're an e-7 and above you got a bronze star for just showing up. So how does that compare to the soldiers that were actually out day and night on patrol and in real harms way instead of just being in country.

Response by Cpl Brenton MacKinnon made Oct 27 at 2014 5:26 PM

Cpl Brenton MacKinnon — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:26:53 -0400

I have 3 bronze stars and can't even remember why they were awarded...
The lust for medals that young men and officers suffer from is
sadly balanced by the fact that most acts of heroism are committed by
The Dead, forgotten by most, unknown by the signees of citations and buried
in silent graves never visited

Mac
VN
Fox 2/5 Ist Mar Div

Response by CPT Matthew Long made Oct 27 at 2014 5:28 PM

CPT Matthew Long — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:28:20 -0400

Bronze Star has lost all meaning; Popularity contest and or water-down award given to the buddy system. Take care of your men, get everyone home in one piece, and give my team the highest awards I could fight for them... that was good enough for me.

Matthew Long
IN, CPT
OIF 10-11

Response by SGT Rick Yarosh made Oct 27 at 2014 5:48 PM

SGT Rick Yarosh — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:48:52 -0400

The award is deserved, for some. It just seemed to me like all Platoon Sergeants and above received them. Not to say that some didn't deserve them. My platoon sergeant sure as hell didn't. Hit with one tiny IED and never left the gate again. NEVER. My buddy goes out every single day, gets hit with multiple IED's and the last one takes his life. Where was his bronze star? Maybe he doesn't deserve one as I don't believe I deserve one. But if he doesn't then my PSG sure as hell doesn't.

Response by CPL Keith Raymond made Oct 27 at 2014 6:01 PM

CPL Keith Raymond — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 18:01:20 -0400

Irregardless of the origins of the Bronze Star, most service members to my knowledge are awarded the BSM for hold a position that is usually required of a higher rank. While holding the position, one needs to fulfill all of the duties of said position in an exemplary manner. i.e. an E-4 holding an E-6 position and excelling in the position. I know of at least one instance in where there were 3 deserving of the BSM and none of them were able to receive it because the Section Commander was only eligible for the MSM. None of the work that those men were ever recognized because of this blunder.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 6:23 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 18:23:31 -0400

I am very much in agreement with the majority of the posts where many have spoken about the unearned and undeserved awarding of the BSM. I also note that many have also proclaim their disdain for the award and the assumption that the bearers of the award are not deserving. The problem is not the award!

To take a step on the flip-side, which needs to be done. All who were awarded the BSM do not fit my above comment. The leadership of every unit did not get it wrong, some out there (how many, we will never know) did it right and awarded the BSM to those who truly earned it and IAW the merits of the regulaton.

My caution is that we not automatically "call BS" everytime we some a BSM on some someone's ribbon rack. It has been noted, that every individual knows if they truly earned the award or if they were chasing ribbons. For the latter, if they were posting here, their response (if they even posted) they would claim "sour grapes and say to themselves, "I got mine, ha ha!" We will always have these in our Army unfortunately and for those who deserved any recognition and did not get it, Please keep doing what you're doing. Regardless of the recognition you may or may not attach to your ribbon rack, if you're doing it right, the only recognition that will mean more to you is the recognition of the Soldiers you lead every day! They are the ones who count. Soldiers of merit badge chasers will also let you know real quick what kind of leader that sorry ass SOB was. It always comes out in time! Bot tom line............Soldiers KNOW!

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Oct 27 at 2014 6:27 PM

SP5 Michael Rathbun — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 18:27:30 -0400

Very interesting.

I was notified by mail after DEROS/ETS that my BN CO had put me in for a Bronze Star. I still have the Blue Box in the Shoe Box.

It is disappointing but not unexpected to see how things deteriorated; I had no idea how supposedly worthless my BSM was until I shared an office with a MAJ who had been the Awards & Decorations Officer for the Saigon Support command.

That notwithstanding, I paid the full retail price for that bit of metal and ribbon in Viet-Nam, and I wear it proudly today when occasion admits, regardless of what else may have occurred.

(My Dad tried to turn down the Silver Star in North Africa; they wouldn't let him. He just somehow failed to show up for his Purple Heart after Anzio.)

Response by SGT Gabriel Quinones made Oct 27 at 2014 6:43 PM

SGT Gabriel Quinones — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 18:43:11 -0400

I'm not going to put any names out there but the XO on my first deployment received a bronze star for handling all the logistical stuff for our mission, which makes me wonder "What is the criteria for that metal anyways?" I used to go to the TOC everyday before a mission and see him organizing his iTunes files. I mean look, the dude was a good guy, but him getting that award made me hold it in a much lesser regard. I returned from that deployment with no reprimands of any kind and received a Letter of Appreciation. I'm not saying I should have received a bronze star because regardless of the award, if I didn't earn it, then I don't want it, but c'mon, really? Anyways, that's the Cal National Guard for you.

Response by CPO Loren Halsey made Oct 27 at 2014 7:32 PM

CPO Loren Halsey — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:32:45 -0400

I believe awards should not be self written and awarded for doing your basic job... I saw several Bronze Stars written up by the folks receiving them and they were awarded for working in a rear area and all they did was their job.. Not above and beyond... One was so awkward that he had it awarded in private when we returned stateside... TOO MANY folks who went above and beyond the call of duty were not recognized for their actions.. Please understand I do not believe I am one of them.. I never sought nor cared for awards, I served and would all over again because I loved it...

Response by SPC Gary James Baxter made Oct 27 at 2014 7:37 PM

SPC Gary James Baxter — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:37:39 -0400

It is awarded unfairly

Response by SPC James Rafferty made Oct 27 at 2014 7:44 PM

SPC James Rafferty — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:44:24 -0400

I believe, in my experience, the BSM is given to easily. At the end of both my deployments, OIF and OEF, the officers and senior NCO's received the BSM and some of them never left the FOB. Another award I saw given at the end of my deployment in Iraq was the MSM as a deployment award. Last time I checked, that was a peace time award. The only award during my second deployment, Afghanistan, that I feel was earned for a specific act was the ARCOM w/ "V" device. There were only two given.

Response by 1LT John Kehoe made Oct 27 at 2014 7:46 PM

1LT John Kehoe — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:46:10 -0400

Like many things...the award is most appreciated by those who actually "earn" the medal. While I have nothing against those who "obtained" the medal, ie; staff officers who choppered into a combat area shortly after it was secured (during 'nam) and therefore put each other in for CIB...Bronze Star etc. awards just for the purpose of wearing them and furthering their careers....I know that when I was awarded the Bronze Star with "V" in 1968 while leading a platoon with the 82nd Ab 505th PIR during a pro longed firefight...I was, I believe, justifiably proud of receiving the medal...no more so than the two Purple Hearts, CIB, Helicopter Assault awards I also was awarded. Those who earn them, especially with "V"...EARNED THEM!!

Response by SFC Johnny Alvarez made Oct 27 at 2014 7:47 PM

SFC Johnny Alvarez — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:47:42 -0400

I definitely think that Bronze Star Medals are given unfairly. When I deployed to Iraq in 2003 I guess it would be called OIF1 (back then there were no numbers) I did a lot of work for my unit not to toot my own horn but I did amazing things. When we were close to the end of our deployment our battery Commander started writing awards. One time I walked behind him and read the bullets he was writing these brand new lieutenants whom had gotten there about the second to last month before we return from Iraq. The bullets he was using to give these officers were all the actions I had done! Suffice to say that I was upset (just to keep it clean) all the E-7s were also recommended bronze stars and I was put up for an Arcom. He said (the commander) that because I was an E-6 at the time he couldn’t recommend me for the Bronze Star. Again how was it that the bullets used for these 2 lieutenants were all my actions and they deserve a bronze star because they were lieutenants and I didn’t because I was an E-6? Well my first sergeant, my smoke, ad my gunny (platoon sergeant and assistant platoon sergeant for you non artillery) fought for me and I was the only E-6 in the entire battalion awarded a bronze star. I feel proud of it but feel sad to know that people have the misconception that because you are a certain rank you are allowed only certain awards even if the deserve something higher.

Response by CPL John Anderson made Oct 27 at 2014 7:57 PM

CPL John Anderson — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:57:56 -0400

A lot of officers who never even left the FOB, were getting awards left and right for the valor and excellence cough cough S-3. When shit hits the fan Private or 1LT things on the actual battlefield are looked at and verified. When it comes to the officers sucking each other off. There's your numerous bs awards.

Response by LTC Robert Flynn made Oct 27 at 2014 8:07 PM

LTC Robert Flynn — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 20:07:05 -0400

Many Awards / Medals are not fairly given. I have seen arbitrary awards based on rank and not necessarily on achievement. Some are given just "for being there" and the rank of the person is used to determine which award / medal will be given.

Response by CMSgt Elizabeth Crabtree made Oct 27 at 2014 10:01 PM

CMSgt Elizabeth Crabtree — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 22:01:03 -0400

For me the problem is understanding how the criteria for awarding of the Bronze Star has been so distorted. The Bronze Star Medal is the fourth-highest individual military award and the ninth-highest by order of precedence. It may be awarded for acts of heroism, acts of merit, or meritorious service in a combat zone. When awarded for acts of heroism, the medal is awarded with the "V" device. The example I will use is this: TSgt, EOD Technician, killed in the line of duty (he was clearing a roadway and keeping people and equipment away from the IED) was posthumously awarded the Bronze Star in 2010. An officer, sitting in an air conditioned quonset hut in Qatar in 2005 is given a Bronze Star. How do these two events warrant the same level award? I have wrestled with this since it happened and the fact that the TSgt's Wing and Command did not pursue raising the medal to a Silver Star.

Response by SGT Barry Green made Oct 27 at 2014 10:32 PM

SGT Barry Green — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 22:32:30 -0400

Well all I can say about this medal is that I was awarded one in Vietnam in 1970 for heroism under fire but I never was given it. I have the paperwork and all in my records but was never given to me.
To me you have to earn this medal and a lot of guys in Vietnam deserved them and didn't get them but that is my opinion.
I think the guys on the front lines deserve them more than somebody just being there!

Sgt. B Green. Vietnam 71 & 72

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made Oct 27 at 2014 10:50 PM

SP5 Michael Rathbun — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 22:50:53 -0400

Having read a great deal of the above, at this point I am having trouble keeping my lunch down.

Response by MSG Robert Mills made Oct 27 at 2014 10:54 PM

MSG Robert Mills — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 22:54:30 -0400

This is a interesting little article, however who are you or anyone else to question someone elses service or sacrifice regardless of your personal veiws? Everyone that joins the military for any reason at all does not do it for awards, they do it for service, just because you think you were on the short end of the stick does not give you the right to bash everyone elses service or achievements. So before you poke a bees nest take a look into the mirror and ask yourself why you werent selected, then maybe you just you were a victim of the same circumstance as a million other soldiers that have done valorus acts and never been awarded for it. Join the club pal. Otherwise go cry someplace else.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 12:33 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 00:33:22 -0400

BSM is the ARCOM for seniors. Not taking away from the older veterans, or the bubbas with "V" devices, but every time I see a BSM license plate, I automatically think (E7 or higher) got it just for being there.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 1:52 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 01:52:58 -0400

In my unit there was BSMs handed out but not to the troops fighting and I know of several who more than earned it. Some received wounds that would hospitalize them after we returned but while we were in sandbox they manned their positions, continued patrols and acted with heart of a warrior. Everyone was in daily firefights, overcoming snipers, IDF, Roadside bombs and RPG attacks. Not one trooper got a BSM but the officers did and so did the senior NCOs.

Response by SGT Michael Davis made Oct 28 at 2014 5:11 AM

SGT Michael Davis — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 05:11:06 -0400

Why not award the msm to those so called "fobits". As a PFC and SPC in my unit on my first tour I was awarded 2 Arcoms for Valor and a Bronze star. During the ceremony myself and my team leader were the lowest ranks recieving the bsm and the only ones who conducted combat missions. Kinda made the award a little less special. As does it when a award is down graded with a post it note "rank does not support award". During which i was put in for a higher award than my plt sgt who got a bsm for Valor and mine was eventually down graded all the way to an arcom w/V. Kinda makes you say who gives a shit my guys can do 800 missions get blown up shot and get an arcom in a big box with everyone else's. Thats bad leadership if you ask me not to name any names 502nd inf 05-06, pretty sure that happens everywhere proud to serve but dont miss the bull.

Response by SPC Richard White made Oct 28 at 2014 6:16 AM

SPC Richard White — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 06:16:18 -0400

My Grandfather was awarded one for heroism for actions during DDay.He was protecting one of our own and he had his shoulder blown out protecting his buddy.My step son's roommate was in Afghanistan as a medic and his humvee hit an IED and they came under fire and he saved 3 of his battle buddies and he was awarded the Bronze Star.

Response by SSG William Fox made Oct 28 at 2014 8:15 AM

SSG William Fox — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:15:32 -0400

Sure, young officers in staff and NCOs receive this award for sitting on their ass making very impressive Powerpoint presentations for senior staff. Why not? These officers and NCOs (E-6 and above) will have impressive OERs and NCOERs for promotion evaluations later in their creers. As a E-5, I was recommended by my unit for the Bronze Star (BSM) for actions in Iraq and it was downgraded to a Meritorious Service Medal (MSM). I obviously did something right or I would not have received anything at all. The fact was I did not have enuff rank for the award, I was told by my 1SG that it would cheapen the award for the senior staff if a Sergeant received it.

Now I have a question, how is it that I qualify for 100% disability from the VA for combat connected injuries and I was never was awarded the Purple Heart Medal?

Response by SSG Howard Hodges made Oct 28 at 2014 8:53 AM

SSG Howard Hodges — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:53:45 -0400

From 1971 to 1972, I served as a UH1 crew chief out of Camp Eagle, Vietnam. Me and another soldier named Travis prevented a "busted" E6 from assassinating Gen. Clayton Abrams and other VIPs during a Change of Command ceremony in late 1971. Just after this I was called away home on emergency leave. After my return to Vietnam, I saw a copy of the general orders awarding the Bronze Star to me and Travis but there was no way to get a copy of it. It never appeared on my DD214 and the Army did a database records search last year for it but it's nowhere to be found.

Response by SSG William Camacho made Oct 28 at 2014 9:03 AM

SSG William Camacho — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:03:19 -0400

I know in my unit one SFC received a bronze star while in Iraq and he did was administration the whole time we were there 1yr in 2009,

Response by PO2 Robert Fisher made Oct 28 at 2014 9:11 AM

PO2 Robert Fisher — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:11:54 -0400

so how does that work with ships that are off the coast giving air support or firing greyhounds inland. we may not have been on the "Front line" but with out our support things could have gone haywire very quickly. We did have one of our boats in our battle group that struck a mine (USS Princeton). How does that come into play here?

Response by COL Thomas Fosnacht made Oct 28 at 2014 9:32 AM

COL Thomas Fosnacht — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:32:13 -0400

Interesting discussion on the Bronze Star Medal and how current soldiers and veterans view its credibility. It should be noted that when it was instituted in 1944 it was to be for a member of the US military who "distinguished him- or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; (or) while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force . . .". Note the exclusion of actions involving aerial combat. This again was due to GEN Marshall's desire to have a decoration to recognize the dirty, bloody job required, specifically, of the infantryman. The Army Air Force had instituted the Air Medal to recognize the dangers and accomplishments of those engaged in aerial combat, many of whom were also wearers of a flight badge indicating their aviation specialty. One can see why the Combat Infantryman's Badge took its general shape and design since the COS wanted his doughboys to have something similar to the shiny wings worn by the flyboys.
The "disdain" for or, shall we say, downgrading of the BSM in the eyes of those who have served can be traced back to the misguided decision in 1947 to automatically award a BSM without V, thus for service, to all holders of the CIB. While the CIB still, for the most part, is viewed with a certain degree of respect, in essence it merely recognizes the fact that the bearer survived a certain amount of time in contact with the enemy or came under enemy fire for a period of time. No specific action is required other than to have been there and, oh yes, to have been in an 11B slot. Oddly, it took generations to finally recognize the family of Special Forces MOS 18 as also a qualifier. The criteria for the CIB varies greatly from war to war and, during a conflict, from unit to unit. In WW2 it had to do with the number of days "on the line", meaning front line combat duty which is recorded in a division's historical record. During Vietnam I can recall the general rule-of-thumb was 5 firefights when I was going thru IOBC at Ft Benning in 1970.
That pro-infantry attitude, one could almost say pro-infantry prejudice, was responsible for the Army's refusal to recognize the combat experience of the service's other branches when a series of combat badges for the engineers, artillery, cavalry and armored troops was proposed, designed and actually manufactured ca. 1947. Some of these unauthorized badges from that period exist today in collections, and disreputable militaria dealers have had bogus copies reproduced in Asia. Finally in 2005 the "cock and ball" badge came into existence to recognize those Army troops who have engaged or been engaged by an armed enemy. The criteria for the award of the CAB is quite uneven because of the discretionary authority of those commanders authorized to award it. And given the nature of today's conflicts involving unconventional/guerilla methods, more and more combat service and combat service support units are being subjected to direct enemy action, often via IED, mortar or rocket attacks. Is one IED ambush or incoming barrage while at a base camp sufficient, or does one need to survive multiple such events to be recognized with a CAB? And how many medevacs from a hot LZ must a helicopter crew survive before they merit combat action recognition? Point is the Army finally recognizes that not just the infantry closes with the enemy.
An interesting sidelight is that, as I discovered in researching the records of the 82nd Abn Div held at the National Archives, the Expert Infantry Badge was awarded for combat actions following Operation Neptune (the actual codename for the airborne and seaborne assault phases of the Normandy Invasion). I could find no documentation why an EIB was awarded rather than a CIB, but they were published on General Orders at division level. However, these were later rescinded and, presumably, replaced by CIB's although, there was no documentation confirming this assumption. One would have to consult individual personnel records but that is next to impossible due to the 1973 fire at the National Military Records Center in St. Louis. From this veteran's perspective the combat badge which I hold in highest esteem is the Combat Medical Badge. As most of us know, that badge represents heroics which it's bearer often performed as a matter-of-course, and which all too often was not recognized with a separate valor citation.
A point of correction - the Bronze Star WAS originally intended for a SINGLE act of heroism, with meritorious achievement or service another justification for its award (see above). I have read dozens of citations for the Bronze Star during WW2 and the acts described therein are clearly beyond the normal performance of duty while combating an armed enemy, i.e. more than just returning fire (which all too often were not via aimed rounds). I have seen very few citations for a meritorious service or achievement award of the BSM. Nevertheless, the Army's post-WW2 leadership recognized that those BSM's awarded for valor needed to be separated from those for achievement or service, especially when they later decided to equate the CIB with a BSM for service. Unfortunately, by the time I began my career in 1970, the BSM was the standard "I was there" award for company grade officers, and NCOs E-6 to E-8, for a tour of duty in Nam. If a soldier in these grades had a right sleeve combat patch and did not have a BSM, it was assumed he had really screwed up (and would probably not survive the RIF). And my contemporaries, for the most part, felt that the Silver Star was the first true decoration for valor as the "V" devices for the BSM had also become too, shall we say, "loose".

Response by SSG Dan Giron made Oct 28 at 2014 10:39 AM

SSG Dan Giron — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:39:29 -0400

I feel the significance of this award has been lost, during my your in Iraq, everyone E7 and above automatically received one (unless they got in trouble). There were others who received ones for actually doing something too. We had officers and a1SG who were afraid to leave the base and only did so to a couple of close schools, and 1 E7 who only sat in the TOC and literally gained over 100lbs because he didn't do anything, but they all got a Bronze Star. It is a disgrace to everyone out there who earned one IMHO.

Response by SGT Chet Sampson made Oct 28 at 2014 2:46 PM

SGT Chet Sampson — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 14:46:40 -0400

When I returned from Desert Storm/Shield. All of our Officer's and top ranking NCO's were all awarded the Silver Star for their participation. There were no other citations or awards given to the lower working staff members. Our Chief Warrant Officer was actually applauded and embarrassed to be awarded the Silver Star, but keep it anyway. This is the same award you would of committed some great out of the ordinary task or given your life. So, no I don't think these medals should be handed out like cotton candy.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 28 at 2014 3:16 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:16:40 -0400

1lt Rosa, this is just one of the many medals that to me no longer hold a true medal of valor, my reasoning for this is decision is as follows: I always wondered how all these Staff personnel (as you call them) could display row after row of medals, then during Desert Storm I found my answer. I was appalled to watch on tv and read in the stars and stripes how Pentagon officials actually chartered Planes to fly them to Suadi Arabia, set in those birds on the tarmac for the then required time and fly home with CIB and what wound up being called the dime a dozen ribbon that was given to all Army service members who actually served over there. Talk about posers !!! they proudly strut around like peacocks at dining-inns and parade around in public like they are some big to do war hero, will lash out at other posers for doing basically the same thing they have done, when I see a person who has more ribbons than they do uniform, I always wonder if they are these hypocritical posers .

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Oct 28 at 2014 3:42 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:42:05 -0400

My father was nominated for the Silver Star while serving in Vietnam, however, it was downgraded to the Bronze Star Medal (V) for actions undisclosed due to what then was considered "need to know, classified" for the outside world. I asked him what he did to earn the BSM considering the fact that he was in the ASA he would not tell me. He took the answer to my question with him to the grave. My assumption is and was that his actions either prevented the loss of lives or fought with bravely in some battle or other. I don't believe the BSM is a bs medal and will never be convinced otherwise.

Response by CPT Mark Judson made Oct 28 at 2014 3:50 PM

CPT Mark Judson — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:50:42 -0400

Agreed! What a well written and informative piece! The key, Key, KEY question to ask when someone mentions their Bronze Star is whether it has a “V” device or not. Very few will be able to (truthfully) answer “Yes”. For those that do answer yes, throw them a salute and buy them a drink – that is a “no shit” war hero you are talking to.

However, if the answer is “No”: Without a “V” device (for Valor), these awards are almost exclusively given by rank and have nothing to do with level of performance. During my time in Iraq, 2005, the “front lines” were the domain of the E-6, or Staff Sergeant. The Staff sergeant and his squad were outside the wire where the rubber met the road, dodging IEDs and direct fire, and trying to kill Haji. Oddly however, the bronze Star was generally reserved for those one or more ranks higher – E-7 and above. So really, all the hooah hooah combat troops wound up with a lesser award, the Army Commendation Medal (ARCOM), while the Fobbits wound up with the Bronze Stars!! Very counter-intuitive.

A few caveats here: the above only reflects my experience at the time and place where I served (although I would bet the same were true regardless of time and Major Command).

Also, not all the E-6’s spent significant time outside the wire, and not all of the E-7 and above were exclusively inside the wire.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 28 at 2014 3:55 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:55:18 -0400

I found it funny in my last unit how I got stopped by my entire chain to include the entire company of NCO's and officers because I wore more awards then most all of them, Lt's would stop me and try to bust me out and get pissed when I pulled out mt 3 ring binder with all the orders, and I dont have much either,I have 3 rows with a total of 12 awards ( I count the number 2 on my schools award, the number 2 on my ARCOM and the 2 on my AAM) a total of just 12 awards.

Response by SFC Robbie Myers made Oct 28 at 2014 4:18 PM

SFC Robbie Myers — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:18:51 -0400

The Army award system is a joke...lol I was given a impact ARCOM for a simple doing the right thing task, my retirement ETS award after 13 years of service was a AAM...LOL doesn't bother me because I've known the systems has been bogus for years.....I've seen valor awards given for something not really displaying valor and then see someone put in for a valor award that was for something that displayed significant valor be turned down. Below is the key factors to all awards in order:
1) Rank
2) MOS
3) How much equipment you are signed for (not responsible for) but on your hand receipt
4) Who you know

Response by SFC Matthew Parker made Oct 28 at 2014 4:56 PM

SFC Matthew Parker — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:56:40 -0400

I read the posts on this topic and it is a great discussion.

In 2003 my team received ARCOMS for their work in Iraq, I put two of them in for a higher award. Both soldiers dropped the awards in the trash in front of the commander and requested they be removed from their official files. In the request they wrote the award as down graded both dishonored their work and them personally. The commander refused to revoke the awards so they went to the Battalion Commander and IG. Thought I had seen it all.

Second tour in Iraq a fellow platoon sergeant did the same thing because he did not feel the work he did in country warranted the BSM he was awarded.

I don't know what the solution is to awarding medals to the right people for the right reasons but after those two events I do know this is one of those issues that is personal as well as organizational.

Response by SGT Olan Aldrich made Oct 28 at 2014 6:34 PM

SGT Olan Aldrich — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:34:34 -0400

I know in my last unit before I was medically retired in the 10th MTN DIV, the Bronze Star was awarded only to SSG and above and all Officers whether they seen action or not. Any other Rank SGT and below had to be KIA. The award system to me has fallen apart and many are given out like candy to those that have not really earned it except for having rank. I have seen many other soldiers get passed over that rightfully deserve it as well as other medals. It was sad for myself as I had to write my own recommendation for award several times over, because the senior leadership did not want to take their time and do their job, but yet they always have gotten what they thought they deserved whether or not they actually earned it. I am happy with the Awards I have earned but feel bad for the others who have been crapped on by the leadership. I have also seen this happen in many other units throughout the Army, especially the Army Commendation Medal, which was given as a blanket Award for all SGT's and below to PFC, with a few to lower ranks. Most E-2 ended up with an Army Achievement medal if they were lucky.

Response by SSG Carlos AcostaCastro made Oct 28 at 2014 7:05 PM

SSG Carlos AcostaCastro — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:05:19 -0400

I was in Afghanistan from 2008-2009 patrolling twice a week during my rotation we ended up blown up or shot and all I got was an ARCOM don't get me wrong, it is a nice to received an award but it is very frustating to see Senior Leaders that don't leave the FOB and they get a Bronze Star for what reason?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 7:15 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:15:42 -0400

As LT Rosa indicated in the article, the Bronze Star was intended to be a combat medal. Initially, President Roosevelt had reservations about instituting the award when GEN Marshall recommended the concept. He wrote, "The danger of this proposed Bronze Star medal is that if it is to be awarded, the whole tendency will be to give it to people who have merely gone through an operation with normal performance of duty - what they were expected to do - and with enough luck not to get wounded." Roosevelt's biggest concern with the Bronze Star was that the quantity of medals would dilute the quality. 70 years later, those fears have become reality. We make all manner of excuses for the way in which this medal is awarded. The most common is "scope of responsibility" but the fact remains that in OIF and OEF, the larger percentage by far of Bronze Star medals awarded have gone to individuals who did not directly confront the enemy and place themselves in harm's way outside the wire on a daily basis. As concerns the argument that these individuals are eligible because they are in a "combat zone" or drawing "combat pay" and thus, are in the same dangerous situation as the line Soldiers, I have to raise the Bullshit flag on that one. Yes, I know. They could be hit by a rocket or a mortar round, but they could just as well be hit by a meteor in their own backyard in the States. I would venture to say that they are more safe on a FOB in theater than they are driving their car down the freeway back home. Those Soldiers outside the wire everyday are most definitely not. The Bronze Star should be both a valor award and a service award, but it should only be recommended for a Soldier who was putting his life on the line in the face of the enemy. As GEN Marshall put it, "Keep a balance among the services involved in battle, the best to the man who is actually in the fighting. Something else, less impressive, to the men who labor behind the lines."

Response by COL Charles Williams made Oct 28 at 2014 8:58 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:58:21 -0400

Hooah. This is not a new discussion. No one is ever happy with awards and how they awarded, and to whom. With all awards, there are some awarded to Soldiers who some think undeserving, while some may be overlooked. The 4 branches also see them differently. Some believe rank is a criteria, but it is not, unless the approving commander thinks it should be, but again everyone has an opinion.

In my 33 years in the Army, infantrymen were/are not the only ones in harms way. Heck, most times, and especially since 911, many supporting branches deploy at 2/3 times the rate of the folks we support. And, most are not FOBBITS...

Who deserves what, is the chain of command and a commanders call. Commanders must maintain the integrity of the system and the award. I could cite many many examples to illustrate the confusion and disparity... But here are a few.

1. As a new Scout Platoon Leader, my first PSG was a Vietnam vet and of the many things he taught me, one was about awards. He served two tours in Vietnam, first in the 11th ACR were he was shot at daily, and had several 113s shot out from under him... When he DEROSd... All he received was a handshake. Then he was in the 1st ID and never even saw the enemy.... But, when he DEROSd he received a CIB and a BSM when he out processed.

2. Desert Storm, every division had a different policy. Some gave out awards like Candy, because some leaders thought this was their one and only chance to give combat awards. Some had tacit rules for the BSM like only field grade officers and higher could get a BSM.

3. Operation Allied Force, the USAF in Italy tried (yes tried.. Not allowed thankfully) to award the BSM to USAF officers who never left Italy or EUCOM HQ... in support of the Air Campaign...

The Army Rules are in the AR, and Commanders must maintain the integrity of each award and the system. My opinion, which matters not, the BSM should require documented direct contact with the enemy, not just being in the same theater.... But, so long as the awardee meets the criteria, then so be it.

I have 3 from Somalia and Iraq, and I am proud to have earned them. Finally, the awards don't make the man or the Soldier. My awards mean nothing... My family is all that really matters.

Always an interesting discussion.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 12:36 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 00:36:22 -0400

Been happening for years:

http://www.stripes.com/news/air-force-to-award-61-more-bronze-stars-1.42274

"Amongst the awardees was the colonel responsible for putting up tents at Aviano AB in northern Italy, and three colonels at Ramstein AFB who were "engaged in ground operations against an opposing armed force" (????), and the support commander, operations commander, and bomber wing commander at Whiteman AFB, Missouri. "The citation for a lieutenant colonel in Missouri reads '... meritorious achievement while engaged in ground operations against an opposing armed force.'" (!!!!)" (http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c363.htm)

Yup. Pretty B.A. to be a REMF and cheapening one of the higher decorations.

Air Force to award 61 more Bronze Stars

The Air Force is in the midst of vetting another batch of Bronze Star medals to be handed out later this summer, some expected to go to personnel working in the Pentagon, Missouri and Ohio.

Response by CPT Topher Murphy made Oct 29 at 2014 10:05 AM

CPT Topher Murphy — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:05:39 -0400

When I was downrange we were told via email that no one would get a SS, BSM, MSM or anything higher "'because we're not in a combat zone". We had just switched to OND. At the end of our year I got and ARCOM and my team AAMs. We went outside the wire even though we were psych (until ordered to not go). However a unit on the camp I was at awarded a kid an AAM for wearing a unit T-shirt in the local 5k. So my team earned the CAB but ended up with AAMs for their work for the entire year.

Response by SPC Samuel Wheeler made Oct 29 at 2014 11:47 AM

SPC Samuel Wheeler — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 11:47:19 -0400

my father was a light machine gunner [bar] inth 80th inf. div. 3rd army in ww2 he was awarded 2 bronze stars and a purple heat with an oak leaf cluster [wounde 4 times in 4 days] thanks to the nice red and white bullseyes painted on the hospital tents in leouxembourg!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 12:42 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:42:20 -0400

While I was stationed at Kirkuk AB, I was witness to an O-6 being awarded this medal, for doing more than his job, "inside the wire". This single action made me loose respect for the awarding of the medal. This award was so many times never given to those that did far greater deeds in Vietnam, OIF, OEF, and other dark ops that we will never hear about. I have to laugh, as a job I performed while at Kirkuk, corrected for a electrical grounding issue that with one lightning bolt would have destroyed 3 million dollars worth of equipment and plunged the base into total communications blackout: I got nothing. And the job I did came well after the awarding of the medal. So, the feeling I had were founded before the work I did. I still remember the look of the 1Lt face when I explained all of grounding issue to him: PRICELESS!!

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 29 at 2014 1:04 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:04:26 -0400

Here we go again. It's "us" vs "them". "Real" soldiers vs the "REMFs". Why should a REMF receive anything other than a campaign ribbon. Come to think of it, why should they receive even that?

Sadly, I trained for a year to be an infantryman (BCT, AIT, Infantry OCS) then was commissioned in the Adjutant Generals Corps, and have suffered survivor's guilt ever since my tour of duty in Vietnam where I saw my classmates go in harms way while I served in the rear. Sure, I have survivor's guilt, but I am not ashamed of my service and I earned a few awards.

The thing that front line troops don't realize is that the bombs and shells fall far behind the front lines, and in modern warfare, every base camp perimeter is a front line. Clerks and cooks manned the bunkers so that combat troops didn't have to during their brief respites there.

I just finished reading a book about the WWI Battle of the Somme which included personal observations lifted from the diaries and letters written by soldiers who fought there. It seems that the danger behind the front lines wasn't any less than in today's asymmetrical warfare. Some WWI soldiers spoke of the supply trains that carted millions of artillery shells, rifle ammunition, food and water to the front line troops while heavy artillery shells fell on the roads they traveled. They wrote of men and horses flying through the air as these shells burst among them. Still, they kept the supplies coming. Are they not deserving of respect? A medal when they excelled at their task or bore on with those vital supplies when others balked?

Army Commendation Medals as well as Bronze Star Medals were both awarded for service and achievement as well as valor in Vietnam. Legions of Merit and Distinguished Service Medals were for service only. All four were generally awarded based on rank on the supposition that those of higher rank bore greater responsibility. Fair or not? You decide. (BTW, Air Medals were also awarded for service and accomplishment as well as valor.)

No, this is a complex subject deserving far more consideration than a knee-jerk reaction based on prejudice against the majority of soldiers who served those in combat.

Response by SGT Nathan Gumbert made Oct 29 at 2014 4:49 PM

SGT Nathan Gumbert — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:49:35 -0400

The fact of the matter is this, awards are given out to recognize achievement, service and acts of heroism. An award can motivate and encourage those who witness it as well as the awardee. Speaking for myself, during my two deployments to Iraq (2004 and 2005) my leardership was more focused on the mission than handing out awards for legitimate achievements, service or valor. I was witness to this and saw how this affected moral of my fellow Marines. The mission was never compromised from this, but the esprit de corps was. I take satisfaction in the fact that I contributed to the cause with my service. No LOC, ribbon or medal can come close to the pride I will carry with me for the rest of my days, but not everyone sees it that way. Now I don't think awards should be granted without merit, but if a simple award can generate the very best efforts from service members, then why show we shy away from awarding medals and ribbons to those who do merit them?

Response by SPC Sean Donnellan made Oct 29 at 2014 6:15 PM

SPC Sean Donnellan — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:15:16 -0400

Brings perspective. Sentence structure in the final paragraph intro sentence deteriorates the piece.

Response by SPC Seth Cheek made Oct 29 at 2014 7:16 PM

SPC Seth Cheek — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 19:16:59 -0400

I want this to be made very clear. I wish in no way to take away from or delineate those of whom have justly received the distinction. However, it is to no avail that I attempt in enlightening the subject matter. I am a retired Specialist having seen the abuse of such distinction. I have witnessed, first hand, the vestment abuse by higher echelon giving among themselves this distinction because, it looks good on a resume or promotion board. I call it "Good ol' Boy" system. When in fact, an ARCOM would suffice. Unfortunately, the Army Regulation 600-8-22 specific to military awards does not by Distinctive Measure define the merits to which a honoree is entitled for the awards that present the honor of Commendation of Merit other than, using terminology such as "greater than", "less than", or "Equal to" to suffice for means of Measuring merit. I propose, either amending the Qualifications to be more " distinctive/specific" or, Rewrite the chapters that contain Military commendation and/or merit. Thank You and God Bless.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 9:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:04:31 -0400

My grandfather earned three BSMs in Korea. I have his 214 and it clearly shows three separate BSMs. Assuming one was for service (according to the above definitions), that meant he earned two for valor in the same conflict.

While I have nothing but applause for Soldiers receiving medals, my 1SG in Iraq left the wire three times (that included the trip in and out from Kuwait), and hid under his desk at the sound of any explosion (even the 15 after and 15 till EOD pops). He was awarded a BSM.

While I understand it was his service medal, there were many other warriors in my company that deserved a BSM due to combat operations but were given ARCOMs due to their rank.

I think this is the great divide everyone sees; rank privileges. I recently received an MSM for my four year effort as a Sapper Company (NG) Training Sergeant; the recommender put qualitative and quantitative information into the bullets and submitted it. Both my BN and BDE Commanders downgraded it to an ARCOM, but our ATAG signed off on the MSM. I asked what would cause such a 'disagreement' on the back page of the 638 and was told it was based on my rank (I was a SSG then).

All I can say is there is a disparity and it seems to be the mentality more than the functionality of the Award System. Soldiers are not viewed equally as award recipients.

Response by Capt William Shipley made Oct 30 at 2014 12:19 PM

Capt William Shipley — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:19:44 -0400

My humble opinion is that some awards should only go to men and women who EARN them in combat. I never would have expected nor deserved such an amazing honor. I have a medal or two for not screwing up but... Only special people deserve a BSM.

Response by CPL Shelby Brashear made Oct 30 at 2014 3:30 PM

CPL Shelby Brashear — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 15:30:31 -0400

our LT got one at the end of our tour. he was such a coward. and all us joes got was a unit coin.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 8:20 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:20:06 -0400

It seemed a matter of Policy that E6 and above (or just if you were liked) received the Bronze Star on my deployment to Afghanistan. As stated previously, this type of sweeping policy devalues the award. No Soldier with any sense ever argued the validity of the work being done on the FOB/rear on a daily basis to maintain operations.
Yet, when you live on a mountainside or are out on patrol and take contact daily or weekly and know that SSG, 1LT or CPT So and So sat in the TOC in the relatively lap of luxury, going to the greenbean everyday and to surf and turf on Fridays, and EVERYONE knows who these guys are, well that’s a tough pill to swallow or feed to your Joe’s come the end of tour awards.

Especially when you can’t get your guys an ARCOM V, or Bronze Star for direct actions in combat but you have to watch Said SSG 1LT or CPT so and so get awarded a Bronze star for turning in WAAR and Blue sky reports or making sure the BUB/CUB was set up to the CDRs liking.

We all have stories of someone who did something incredible under fire and got little to no recognition for it, while LT Donut made sure the coffee maker was ready in the AM got the accolades. What is really frightening is that I thought this was just my BN. It appears an Army wide problem.

AND we haven’t even gotten into the discussion on CAB and CIB hunters. You know, the soldiers who were kind of in the same general area when something happened but put in for the award like they were Audey Murphy.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 8:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:28:49 -0400

Response by PO3 Julia Perry made Oct 31 at 2014 9:01 AM

PO3 Julia Perry — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 09:01:17 -0400

I truly am not impressed w/Bronze Star young guns

Response by Cpl Don "GUNNY" Miller made Oct 31 at 2014 10:31 AM

Cpl Don "GUNNY" Miller — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 10:31:17 -0400

Of all the Marines I know, and I know quite a few, I only know 1 (one) who received the Bronze star and he was a real combat Marine in Viet Nam, I know because I served with him. Almost every one I meet from the Army that was in Viet Nam has a Bronze Star. Some were earned and others were given out like candy. It detracts from the award when everyone gets one for just participating. I know of one such Army vet that received the Bronze Star and the local newspaper wrote a big article about him on Veterans day, and I am guessing the most heroic deed he did was probably letting someone cut in the chow line before him.

Response by MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson made Oct 31 at 2014 1:35 PM

MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:35:06 -0400

This has historically been a problem. The main issue is the wide variance in how different units go about awarding the BSM for meritorious service for a given deployment/operation (versus the V device, which is more straightforward). For example, during Desert Storm, the policy in my unit was field grade officers and CSMs, plus company-level commanders and 1SGs. In other units, it was field grade and CSM only. Some units had a much more liberal policy, E-7 and above and all commissioned officers and warrants. In a perfect world, I think each write-up should be individualized versus a blanket "this rank or higher" policy, where you can introduce factors such as the amount of actual combat seen, number of combat operations versus FOB duty, etc. However, that might be extremely difficult to implement logistically given the high numbers of award recommendations you're dealing with when a unit redeploys.

Response by 1stSgt Sean Horan made Oct 31 at 2014 4:27 PM

1stSgt Sean Horan — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:27:18 -0400

My beloved USAF started mis-using this award with the Kosovo campaign. It is nothing more than a war time MSM but those who earned theirs in combat and with "V"....it is well deserved.

Response by MSG Brian Breaker made Oct 31 at 2014 9:29 PM

MSG Brian Breaker — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:29:52 -0400

1LT Eric Rosa,

Interesting read. My father served 2 tours in Vietnam and was told that only Officers received the BS. After 21 years of service his highest award was an MSM. He was so proud when I told him my Commander put me in for a BS after Desert Storm. I was a 20 year old SPC and two others SPC in my section also received a BS. At the time I really did not understand the significance and asked my Commander why he put me in for one. He said, "Because you kicked $ and I think you deserve it!" I didn't do anything heroic and my BS is just that, not for valor, but someone saw something in me and awarded me the BS. I wear it with pride for me and my father who I am sure earned it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2014 2:15 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 02:15:43 -0400

That may be true, although when it is reserved primarily for E7 and above? This is the main reason everyone has come to think that way. How would you explain this?

Response by SFC James Ritchie made Nov 1 at 2014 4:51 AM

SFC James Ritchie — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 04:51:20 -0400

I served in the US Army for little over 20 years and early on in my career I wondered the same thing, how do people that don't seem to earn an award, whether it be a BSM or not, end up getting them? It wasn't until later in my career, possibly the last five years, that I found the answer.

Sure, there are certain factors that qualify a Soldier for a certain award, however it is the manner in which the recommender writes up the award recommendation that plays a significant role in if the Soldier gets approved for the award or not. Think about it, if a supervisor recommends a Soldier for an award and has good writing skills, they can make that Soldier sound like superman on paper. In most cases, the approving authority does not know the Soldier so they will go off the write up on the awards recommendation.

This being said, if you want to make sure your subordinates get their just recognition, do some online research or stop by your company PAC or Battalion S1 section to see if you can get example bullets previous awards recommendations to help you out. You will benefit from the knowledge and so will your Soldiers.

Response by CH (LTC) Jim Howard made Nov 1 at 2014 8:51 PM

CH (LTC) Jim Howard — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 20:51:25 -0400

I was in the Army long enough to get all of the basic medals including the Bronze Star Medal. I don't think medals mean that much but I was by one of my dad's friend's grave yesterday who was a Company Commander from Normandy all the way through the defeat of Germany and its occupation. On the simple brass plaque it said Captain, US Army, World War II and Bronze Star Medal. A simple understated testimony to the fact that at one point in his life, he did a good job. Soon the grass will obscure all of the letters on this simple plaque. Few will know how good a man he really was. In the end, it matters more what is in your chest than what is on it and the people who's lives we touch.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Nov 2 at 2014 10:46 AM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 10:46:23 -0500

The BSM is a great award cheapened by giving it out like candy. In my personal experience I have seen the politics of it played out..especially working for an HHBN. An entire section got BSMs, even officers and NCOs who have been in theater less than a month. And of course once you hit a certain rank the BSM becomes almost automatic. I find it disdainful but such is the system.

Response by LTC W. H. "Wally" Wallace made Nov 2 at 2014 12:39 PM

LTC W. H. "Wally" Wallace — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 12:39:33 -0500

Great write up and very accurate. Not a bronze star but an ARCOM with "V" is my most valued award from Vietnam with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, when I was a Infantry Platoon Leader.

Response by SGT Robert Strange made Nov 3 at 2014 12:57 PM

SGT Robert Strange — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 12:57:28 -0500

and just how many have it, and its classified, and they will never get it, just get told they earned it ?

Response by MSgt Scott Ashley made Nov 3 at 2014 2:17 PM

MSgt Scott Ashley — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 14:17:28 -0500

A just decoration for members on the ground and engaged with the enemy. But a medal for meritorious service in a command post/medical facility is not something I would not support. We all sacrifices to our daily life's when deployed to hazardous locations. I personally, had a young A1C (E-3) make the ultimate sacrifice and he received the Bronze Star medal posthumously. As I met his family in later months, I felt that I would not have accepted that medal for any other reason, but except being engaged in ground combat. Its much like getting tax free status for a whole month because you flew in for a single day. Bottom line, the medal should hold the honor that it has held throughout its history, not a means to recognize members for promotion.

Response by SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr made Nov 7 at 2014 12:15 AM

SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr — Fri, 07 Nov 2014 00:15:36 -0500

Sir, you've brought forth an extremely broad and controversial topic that is bound to takes years to fix. During Desert Storm awards in my unit were sent back in masses, to be reconsidered ... "No Blanket Awards!" ... was the order. Two days later working a lonely TCP (Traffic Control Point) a vehicle dropped a cooler in the middle of the convoy. After the convoy passed we discovered awards for every Officer (w/ alpha roaster) within ???? BDE, hard to swallow as a young CPL.

OIF/OEF brings into question an even more controversial and misunderstood policy, if one can forget the unwritten rule of awards equal to rank. During any other 1 year (plus or minus) tour of duty would MSM be so readily awarded as BSM during deployments.

I am a proud grandson of a WWII BSM(V) (South Pacific) this seemed to be an untouchable achievement growing up. My fathers 10 years service only saw an AAM as highest award (1971-1981). So one can only imagine the families surprise when I received my first ARCOM.

The Bronze Star is said to be the fourth highest award to be received in combat (MOH, DSC, SS, BSM) a basic Soldier can receive fifth if you consider the DFC for pilots. Part of what has be lost is the reasons or achievement to be honored. Do we deserve an award for showing up for work every day when we PCS to our next duty station. This same striking feeling hit me deep in the gut on my last OIF deployment. While shadowing my predecessor I was handed me a folder and said just file in your personal information for my BSM when my tour is complete. I felt insulted, I felt insulted for my late Grandfather ... the idea of just doing my job (BDE S-3). Commands changed during our tour to a Joint Service Mission, which allowed by AR the issuant of the JMSM, this allows my honor to my Grandfather be upheld.

Why did I add all the extra ... on my way home I saw BSM issued to plenty of individuals of all MOS's who never left the wire. Jealous you say, only after my retirement, you see that when you can see a value not just the in service honor. (Some not all) College Scholarship Applications ask if a parent is a BSM recipient ... plus up. Some States offer free license plates or tax free registration. This goes back to the writings "to each member of the Armed Forces of the United States who after 6 December 1941, has been cited in orders or awarded a certificate for exemplary conduct in ground combat against an armed enemy between 7 December 1941 and 2 September 1945, inclusive, or whose meritorious achievement has been other wise confirmed by documents executed prior to 1 July 1947"

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2014 5:37 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:37:02 -0500

I personally think that a BSM should not be awarded if not with the V for valor, just my opinion

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2014 7:41 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:41:51 -0500

Of those 99,886 Bronze Star Medals awarded in OIF for Achievement/Service and 2,459 awarded for valor, B Company, 321st Engineer Bn, Task Force Pathfinder, consisting of 112 Soldiers, were awarded 34 BSM's, 9 BSMV's and 18 ARCOMV's. I can honestly say they earned every single one, sometimes twice. Unfortunately they also earned 34 Purple Hearts. The medic earned a Silver Star.

Response by AN Wade Noble made Nov 19 at 2014 12:15 AM

AN Wade Noble — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:15:10 -0500

I think in the Navy it is looked at completely different. I have never heard anyone talking bad about people who were awarded the BSM. I also have never heard of rank being an issue for receiving it. I was just a lowly E-3 when I was awarded it. I worked my @$$ off for it, and nobody can ever tell me different. I wear it with pride.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Nov 20 at 2014 9:43 PM

SPC Donald Moore — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 21:43:47 -0500

It still sounds like it is being handed out like candy to people that didn't do anything besides just show up.

Response by SGT Shea McCuen made Nov 20 at 2014 11:10 PM

SGT Shea McCuen — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:10:48 -0500

What always bothered me the most was the "blanket awards" that were given out at the end of a deployment. The higher your rank, the higher the award you were given regardless of what you actually accomplished. I knew plenty of guys that actually earned their BSM and then I also watched TOC E-7's that never left the FOB get a BSM for a tour award. Kind of waters down the point of the award if you ask me.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Nov 24 at 2014 6:06 PM

MSG Greg Kelly — Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:06:22 -0500

Sorry Sir there is no misconceptions here, I have a SGM friend has multiple ones for each tour, An E8 friend same thing. I watched 25 of 26 be given to soldiers who never left the FOB and were never engaged by any contact. But I had to watch my medic be given an ARCOM w/ V for pulling 4 people from a burning Hummer while under fire. Now I am not the smartest guy in the world but I was smart enough to seek advice and get help with the writing of the award and the citation. Each time I submitted the paper work for my Medic to be awarded the BSM w/ V I was told something new was wrong. Finally the CSM told me flat out no SPC was getting a BSM w/ V in this unit. I snapped and told him he did not have that authority only the BC did and I still could still go over their heads. Then he snapped and we went to the BC. Then the BC tells me no SPC is getting a BSM w/ V CSM is sitting there. And I snapped again and I said really sir a soldier who saved four lives is not worthy but you the CSM and all your little cock suckers are shoe ins right. CSM says SGT Kelly your going down for this one I stopped and said what you going to do reduce me and rank and send me to Iraq who gives Fuck. I went to the Bde CSM and CO with the award. The Bde CO said to SGT Kelly I already heard if your BC will not sign neither will I. I like him he was not a piece of shit I looked in the eye and said Sir the man saved 4 peoples lives while getting fucking shot at what hell does a soldier have to do with you people Die. And walked out but my BN CSM comes to me like he is doing me a favor and says hey we are giving your medic an ARCOM w/ V how's that? I turned around and said get fucked and walked off. At some point there are fights worth you rank and career and they did not do jack because they knew I would go to the papers as it was I sent letters to senators and congressmen. It did no good a good man got screwed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2014 8:08 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:08:56 -0500

I also agree that the awarding of the BSM to those personnel that never leave the wire or any kind of emergency situation has gotten out of control. As posted in another thread, it could be akin to giving an ARCOM to someone as an ETS/PCS award.

Response by Sgt Mario Soberal made Nov 30 at 2014 2:30 PM

Sgt Mario Soberal — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:30:00 -0500

Don't like awards for attendance. That's what paychecks are for and the Marines don't give this one out for just showing up to work......Don't we give out trophies to children for participating, may be this is an extension of that way our society is changing?

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Dec 2 at 2014 8:27 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:27:52 -0500

Yes Sir. It was not intended for a single act of heroism...but it became one. It was an award for those who had to "lead miserable lives of extreme discomfort and are the ones who must close in personal combat with the enemy” but that just justifies the resentment among the ranks for young officers in staff who receive this award?
I think the real problem arise from the young officer sitting in a tent getting the award and the PFC kicking in doors and sleeping in the mud not. The disdain may come from those looking in the mirror and spread through the rest of the ranks?

Response by COL Sam Russell made Dec 2 at 2014 1:43 PM

COL Sam Russell — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:43:27 -0500

Great topic and background information. Thanks for sharing.

Response by Sgt Eubaldo Lovato made Dec 17 at 2014 4:44 PM

Sgt Eubaldo Lovato — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 16:44:17 -0500

The way that I look at this is that I am very proud of the the Bronze Star w/Valor I know what happened in those events for me to receive it and the lives that were lost in the process. This is their award, they deserve it far more than I do. As for SSGT and Officers receiving this medal for the "just because" I feel that it greatly diminishes the value of the award. I am sure there were plenty of officers and SSGT that "earn" but there were a lot that also did nothing and received it for the purpose of receiving it, while others who fought and died received nothing. (very touchy subject)

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 22 at 2014 11:50 AM

SGT William Howell — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 11:50:54 -0500

If it don't have a "V" it is a joke.

Response by SGT Luke Huston made Dec 23 at 2014 7:50 AM

SGT Luke Huston — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 07:50:18 -0500

after watching many be awarded it for no other reason than being deployed - it kinda lost its luster

Response by SGT(P) Khalid Wise made Dec 26 at 2014 12:46 PM

SGT(P) Khalid Wise — Fri, 26 Dec 2014 12:46:32 -0500

What about it not being awarded to soldiers who repeatedly saw direct action against the enemy in Afghanistan and/or Iraq who earned Combat Action Badges (CABs) and Purple Hearts but were somehow not deemed "worthy" of award of a Bronze Star or even an ARCOM with a V-device when officers and senior enlisted that never engaged the enemy as they never went outside the wire or left the FOBs/COBs or Base Camps were deemed "worthy" of Bronze Stars with V-devices. There will be disdain as long as such inequities are allowed to stand where personal courage in leadership is absent, just my humble opinion...

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 27 at 2014 2:04 AM

SGT William Howell — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 02:04:58 -0500

So if you have not noticed. The only people that are pro are the ones who rate the medal. Strange but true.........

Response by 1LT(P) Josh Coats made Dec 27 at 2014 3:13 PM

1LT(P) Josh Coats — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:13:39 -0500

I would like to see Generals stop delegating the downgrading of BSM's to O-6's. I wrote a BSM for an O-3 that spent three months working with locals, well outside of the MEDEVAC coverage rings. He was the only Army officer we knew of in the entire Provence and he saved the lives of several locals while there. It took us six days just to recover him from the assignment. The award was never even given a downgrade signature. It was simply send back for corrections until the cut off time for submissions passed. All of the "good job" BSM's I wrote three months into the twelve month deployment, made it through.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Dec 28 at 2014 1:54 PM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 28 Dec 2014 13:54:23 -0500

How about the CAB (The Combat Action Badge).

- I know I have previously responded, and that although I get notifications for new discussions and responses, I rarely pop back in here; until today. Awards and decorations are always subject to two things (1) the rules in the regulations/guidance, which are pretty straightforward, and (2) the interpretation and implementation of the Commanders and CSMs; I say CSMs as they have vast power to influence their battle buddies on what to do or not. The latter is the long pole in the tent. So, I that vein, let me bring up the CAB (Yes I have one and wore/wear on proudly).

- The CAB was the Army's solution to the long standing arguments and discussions over the CIB (Combat Infantry's Badge) and who should get them, which has varied through the years. Back to my Vietnam Veteran PSG... Field Artillery, Armor, etc got CIBs depending on their unit (no just 11s or what are now 18s). The CAB made sense, as folks like MPs, Engineers, Aviators, and the list goes on fight right along side (or fight alone) and deserve the same recognition. That assumes that the CIB was always awarded properly. My CIB data is purely my opinion from hearsay and observation as I am have never been an Infantryman. The CAB, as we know, became the badge everyone sought (CAB hunters), which has similar criteria for being awarded as the CIB... but is for everyone who is not an 11 or 18 (or Medic) series MOS.

- So, my examples (which support the disparity in how awards are apportioned):

1. Desert Storm there were Divisions who awarded the CIB (by Battle Roster not by the person) to all 11s deployed regardless of whether they actually "engaged or were engaged by the enemy." I had an Infantry Buddy... (two of them actually)... The first was in the lead company of the lead battalion, of the lead brigade of their Division and he said he never saw a living/fighting enemy... He had a CIB, but did not boast like the second dude. If you know Desert Storm, you know by the time the Artillery, Air, and then 24th ID and lead Cav Regiments were done... not much was left fighting... The second dude was in the combat trains (very end) of the last battalion in this Divisions formation, and he also had a CIB. The second dude talked about his "blue badge of courage" daily as if he was in Baghdad ready to take Saddam personally. It is all about perspective I guess. I could cite others, but lets move to the CAB.

2. As I said, I have a CAB... But I was shot at long before Iraq, and even actually returned fire more than once. My actual CAB incident in Iraq (one of many) was a far ambush (luckily) wherein our squad(+) was engaged by automatic weapons fire and RPGs (RPGs missed!), and wherein we returned fire and keep moving. Since I was the senior person on the mission, and secure in my M1114, the only ones returning fire where the gunners in the M1114s and M1117s. They all wanted to dismount and attack, but we had a more pressing mission... and that is not what MPs do; especially in a far ambush. When we got back, the only damage we had was vehicle damage. There were many others, to include several close calls with IEDs. The reason I ended up with a CAB was because I found my PSD squad leader, who had been deployed many times, and in combat, still had never been awarded the CAB... and he wanted one although he would never ask... So, the ones in the squad(+) without them (4 of 16) got them.

3. That brings me to the "bus-stop" incident (trust me this is just an example of one of many). We had a shuttle bus stop near our HQ at Camp Victory (Lost Lake), where many troops took the bus to and from HQ (meaning they never or rarely left the security of VBC). If you know lost lake (this was during the Surge by the way), you know it was in a peninsula on VBC by route Irish, and it was surrounded by fighting wherein random gunfire often went over or hot or building. As an example, on the first day we took over the HQ... 7.62 rounds came thru the plywood wall by my desk and bounced around the marble HQ; we then made the Hescos and sand bags higher the next day...

4. Anyway, the "bus-stop" incident. One night... some of our HQ staffers were at the bus stop waiting for a ride to their hooches when a stray rocket or two hit the lake. They said it was close, and asked for CABs immediately... but, the official reports revealed it was over 300 feet away; Shrapnel actually hit the building on the back side of the lake. Nevertheless the guys requested CABs... and the Brigade (rightfully) denied them... but they persisted... Since we were a Joint Task Force, they eventually bypassed our Brigade (they were an Army NG unit) and went to the JTF commander, who bypassed the Corps and went directly to the MNFI Personal Office... (bypassing the Army for an Army Award). The JTF Commander was Army, and he approved them, despite the actual chain of command saying no, No, NO. What was worse, they did not award them until they were in Kuwait redeploying; Out of sight, out of mind. I know this as I redeployed early and witness not only they "bus stop crew" get the CAB but also the entire detachment... This was apparently for the daily gun fire in and around our HQ... I checked with our Brigade S-1 and see verified these never came trough the Brigade S-1... Interesting.... These dudes rarely if ever want anywhere... aside from the DFAC, work and the gym...

5. I also found another one (probably more) of our JTF (Army) J3 guys (now a Colonel and former Brigade Commander) put himself in for a CAB the day he left theater, again not via the Brigade (Brigade S-1 was also the JTF J-1) as it was supposed to happen, but straight to the TF CG who approved. His, if read like a medal of honor citation... Never awarded it, but he had the orders and donned it back in CONUS... or in Kuwait...

- So... not a new problem... and even despite our best efforts in the Brigade to maintain the fidelity of the CAB... We failed... or people found a way. Frustrating, as I know many who actually saw the enemy and were at least engaged more than once, but never got a CAB... And during the surge we (MPs) had hundreds of casualties...

- The BSM and CAB, and all awards will always be the source of discussion so long as humans are involved. Heck, all awards will be.

Happy Holidays!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 12:43 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:43:01 -0500

I have one of those coins in the background from the 38th Chief of Staff, Army. General Raymond T. Odierno.

Response by SSG John M. made Jan 15 at 2015 9:34 PM

SSG John M. — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:34:27 -0500

The Infantry Soldiers in my family would be skeptical if you did not have the big three

CIB, Purple Heart, Bronze Star w/V

Response by SSG Joseph Dienstag made Jan 17 at 2015 10:13 PM

SSG Joseph Dienstag — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 22:13:29 -0500

I know why I have mine from Desert Storm (w/V device) and I have no distain for the award. I do, however, distain the situation we were in that led to my award.

Response by CPT Arch Nissel made Jan 30 at 2015 7:22 PM

CPT Arch Nissel — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 19:22:01 -0500

Regardless of the history and the reason there are so many problems with this award is the REMF commands that give them to people who have not begun to earn them. Afghanistan 2008 a CPT who was relieved of command and put in charge of library, weight room, and Green bean to finish their deployment was given a Bronze Star for the deployment. It is not the award but the lack of spine of the commanders who want everyone to get an award that has lowered the prestige it once had.

Response by SSgt Jacob Lenfestey made Jan 30 at 2015 7:58 PM

SSgt Jacob Lenfestey — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 19:58:12 -0500

Thank you for the history lesson, now I can ad lib this if I ever hear a complaint about a bronze star.

Response by SPC George Long made Jan 31 at 2015 2:00 AM

SPC George Long — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 02:00:55 -0500

I was not given a Bronze Star just because I was there. In Viet Nam they gave you the Service Ribbon...Campaign Ribbons for that. Bronze Stars were EARNED. If todays volunteer Army has become Napoleons Army that could take all of Europe for a couple colorful bolts of ribbon we are in a sad state of affairs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 10:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 10:53:41 -0500

I do not "disdain" the award. I disdain the way it is awarded. A 1LT in S3 gets the BSM for answering phones and copying & pasting oporders all day gets a BSM for making it to the shower every night and never getting blood on his pretty tacticool boots from the PX while real Soldiers of all ranks are out getting dirty and actually risking our lives for each other and our country doing actual work. I don't go to award ceremonies because i don't want to see the lies and the true lack of honor in the award system. At some point you realize that it is just more money your have to spend on your uniform. A BSM for staff is the same as my NDSM or ASR. They'll get one no matter what.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 4:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 04:53:02 -0500

The Bronze Star is a joke. I've seen it be issued out to people solely based on Rank. I know a MSG who received a BSM and did nothing more than college work during the deployment while her SFC did all the work. She got the BSM, he got an MSM. His award was downgraded to an ARCOM at the Company, BN, BDE and upgraded to the MSM. During that same deployment another SFC got a BSM for building drafting plans to build pull up and dip bars. The BSM has little to do with heroism or outstanding performance, but more to do with how well liked you are. I like to call it the Bull Sh t medal now.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Feb 21 at 2015 11:07 AM

MSG Scott McBride — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 11:07:51 -0500

Totally concur. I watched a LTC staffer receive a BSM for 9 months behind a desk in Kuwait? Really?

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 21 at 2015 12:12 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 12:12:33 -0500

I took the time today to read the entire thread. I wish the SNCO of each service branch would read this thread and maybe had a discussion on this matter.
I received a BSM while in Iraq 03-04. All the 638 said was "See attached statement", which I never saw. After reading this thread I wonder how many when seeing my BSM with no "V" would hold me in distaste and think "Well there goes another one". I looked back at what I did and many times feel it was only my job. When we arrived in Kuwait, all we had for equipment was what we'd carried on the plane. Our job was the G2/G3Ops for V Corps Rear. The SSSC stuff we had was enough for three days. Not only did I have to make sure the health and welfare of my troops was taken care of, I had to make sure the TOC functioned. For about two weeks I begged, borrow, made deals, called in favors, and leaned on "knowing someone who knew someone" to get what I needed to keep things running. I could not fail. I had the CoS tell me, "SGM, the power will never go down in the TOC", we were running on generators (I also became a generator mechanic). When all my soldiers were caught up in keeping the TOC running, I ended up doing many of the details myself because there was no one else to do them, hauling trash, pulling guard duty, making sure those on duty got chow. When our vehicles and containers arrived I had to get them to Camp Virginia with the help of one other NCO. The war started and I was knee deep in poop when the CoS comes to me, "SGM Dawson, start planning to move this TOC forward." "Where to, Sir", I asked. His reply was the location wasn't settled yet, but get busy planning the move. I soon found out just how many soldiers and equipment was assigned to the Rear HQ - around 1400 or so plus containers and vehicles. So in my spare time I planned this move. You know what my best reward was? After everyone and everything was moved, no accidents, no one got killed, our trail party which I was part of arrived at Balad, the CoS came to me with a big smile, extended his hand to me and said, "GOOD JOB SGM".
I was an Infantry guy and a Combat Engineer. I really wanted to be up where the "happening was", but I was in the Rear not really knowing when one day ended and the other began. Yes I was that thing all Combat troops hate - REMF. I remember when I was in my 12B platoon how we always talked about REMFs and now I was one. You always hope you'll never be a REMF, but I was doing what I was ordered to do. Who's going to remember what I did, probably no one. Is all this stuff what "they" gave me the BSM for - who knows? I don't really know of anyone on this site who knows what I did and to tell the truth, I really don't care.
Am I'm writing this to toot my own horn - NO, but I want many of you to stop and think what people really did. I know there was a lot of medals given and in some cases I do know a couple I'll never understand why. But I ask the next you see a service member with a BSM and no "V", don't prejudge, "Oh there's another one".

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 21 at 2015 1:34 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 13:34:34 -0500

There’s no misconception. People understand the criteria for the award, they’re just tired of awards being handed out for rank instead of accomplishment. The BSM has simply become the Officer’s Achievement Medal.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2015 5:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 17:23:05 -0500

I got one with a V. Watch "In The Shadow Of The Blade " if want to know why. I'm third from the last in the document video.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2015 10:53 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 22:53:36 -0500

It's interesting when I here some discuss the CAB and often veterans with the CIB seem to look down there nose as if it was earned with any less risk or associated danger. Although there was unfortunately a period of time when it was awarded to freely, the requirements are now just as strict as the CIB. We also have a short memory and forget that the CIB has also had periods of time when it was awarded just based on your boots being on the ground. The realization is that yes the intent of the award, the evolution and current use are what they are whether that be good or bad. If you see someone with a CAB, do not assume they are one of the minority who did not truly earn it, when you see someone with a BSM do not assume that they sat in a B Hut on a base an entire year as a BN S1. The shot group is large as you stated and what most think warrants a certain award in the initial invasion will always be different after we have been there a decade. We have a lot of award compared to the USMC and less compared to the Air Force but when it comes to impact and service awards the range fan in wide so their will always be some who did more to earn there award then someone else.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Apr 4 at 2015 10:25 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:25:00 -0400

While I have received two Bronze Stars for meritorious service during two deployments, the medal I am most proud of is my Defense Meritorious Service Medal that I received in my first deployment. That one I feel I earned not because of my rank but because of my rank but the work I did. I have mixed feelings about the Bronze Star but as one LTC told me in my last deployment, it is awarded for leadership in a combat zone (as a meritorious medal). That being said, I think we would be better served if we were allowed to award MSMs during a deployment to recognize service and keep the Bronze Star for those who earned it for valor.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 4:20 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 04:20:31 -0400

When I was deployed all the officers were put in for Bronze Stars,no enlisted were most of us received Arcoms.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Apr 5 at 2015 7:24 AM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 07:24:26 -0400

This may not be news, but the subject of giving away BSMs for being there is not new. Years ago, my father, a WWII veteran, When I asked him what he did to earn his BSM, said to me, as best as I can remember, "oh, they gave those things to everyone", refering to his BSM.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 9:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2015 09:54:27 -0400

I received a bronze star on my last deployment to Afghanistan and was very honored to have been awarded it. The majority of the awardees were officers with the exception of a few senior nco's, another SSG, and a SGT(p). Not all of the officers got them, many LT's and CPT's got ARCOM's and I think there was some indignation about who received them. I credit my awesome CSM for fighting for the enlisted. I have been on a deployment where the only awardees were officers except the CSM, and think that the BSM has been misappropriated in some circumstances, but I think that the BSM is a great honor, especially for lower enlisted, to strive for. I was deployed for 38 months before surpassing the ARCOM.

Response by SSgt Joe V. made Apr 6 at 2015 12:07 AM

SSgt Joe V. — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 00:07:01 -0400

My BS was downgraded to AFCOM w/V and I was fine with it...the Msgt I was with, who would jump out of the truck as soon as the shooting started and find the deepest hole to hide in; who wouldn't call in an airstrike because it meant he would have to see where we were getting shot at from; who helped me get more airstrike calls as a non-certified JTAC because he was a pansie - BS because he was retiring...not fine with that.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 6 at 2015 9:01 AM

MSG David Chappell — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 09:01:38 -0400

I saw this first hand, BSM given to all commanders and 1SG's as well as CSM in theater who had no contact and no operations outside the wire. When we did awards our guidance was "base the award on position and operations taking into account rank".

Response by SFC Bruce Scott made Apr 7 at 2015 5:38 PM

SFC Bruce Scott — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:38:24 -0400

While this subject is old, it really is incomplete w/o talking about the CIB. It was mentioned elsewhere "when I see a BSM license plate I think E-7 or above, who got it for being there". From 1941 to 2006 or 07 (I forget when the Army changed it) the CIB was awarded for simply being there. The criteria was very simple, serve 6 months or thirty days, or whatever the Army decided at that time (remember Grenada?), as an infantrymen in an infantry unit in the combat zone. Oahu, Bora-Bora, Australia were all combat zones in WWII & all infantrymen there did was work on their tans. They got the CIB. The exception was if you got killed or wounded in that first six months, so if you were awarded a PHM, you (or your loved ones) got your CIB. So many, many of those CIBs you see on senior leaders are woobies. Blanket awards (typed up upon arrival and submitted to S1 on the appropriate date). Know a 1st Cav vet of the Gulf War w/CIB? Woobie. 1st Cav saw very little combat, if any. Thousands of CIBs awarded though. The BSM / CIB combo was a rite of passage for an infantryman coming home from Korea, & Vietnam (and Soldiers were receiving the BSM / CIB for serving on the Korean DMZ until 1968!). After Vietnam the "scope of duties" principal was invoked to bring parity among the different service branches for the award. The MSM was created but strangely the criteria excluded combat tours. Maybe a "C" device should be created for the MSM for Fobbitts / UAV pilots, etc?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 12:15 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 00:15:27 -0400

most of our awards are no longer presented based on the merit of the individual... nor the merit of the award. Since my first unit, it was said that no one SPC or below could PCS/ETS with an ARCOM, only SGTs and above (btw, I broke that rule and ETSed with an ARCOM). I came back in 6 months later and received ARCOMs and AAM... FOR DOING MY JOB! It blew my mind, I thought that's what my paycheck was for. Then, came OIF and multiple PCS moves... more ARCOMs... and eventually a BSM, for a tour that was less risk and less "heroism" (if there is such a thing) than the first one.

I remember when the BDE Commander pinned it on my uniform, I told him, "Sir, if I earned this award, it was three tours ago, not this one".

My PL had the same reaction, when he moved from staff, to be our PL with 3 months left in theater, but they gave him a BSM for being a Lieutenant. Neither of us were very popular with the CoC for a while.

I still don't care.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 6:11 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 06:11:35 -0400

Great story and history of the award, however, it doesn't change the fact that these awards are still given out as tokens of rank as opposed to service. I have personally seen this award given to someone who did absolutely nothing throughout an entire deployment (I mean that in the most literal sense) because that individual was an officer.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Apr 8 at 2015 7:05 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 07:05:51 -0400

How can it be counted as one of that highest hokes you can achieve if it is awarded for showing up? That seems rather insincere. I mean come on imagine when the grand kids ask about your medals. "Grandpa, what did you get this medal for?"
"Well Timmy, while many brave men and women were fighting, I was shining a chair with my ass."
I understand that everybody's job in the military needs to be done, but that doesn't mean a medal should be awarded just for showing up. That is what little league, ayso soccer, etc. Is for.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 8:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 08:34:23 -0400

All I've got was an Rcom with a V device....I honestly could care less.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 8 at 2015 4:12 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 16:12:15 -0400

While the BSM may hold some disdain, I think that the what holds the most disdain is command level involvement in who gets what.

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Apr 9 at 2015 11:43 PM

SSG Thomas Brousseau — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 23:43:16 -0400

The award system in the Army is broken and has been for some time. In Iraq the Bronze Star Medal was awarded based on rank. Officers and E-7 and above who spent most of their deployment safely on the FOB were awarded Bronze Stars while most lower ranking Soldiers that conducted dangerous daily missions outside of the wire only received the Army Accommodation or Army Achievement Medals. To me that is a slap in the face to any Soldier that ever got shot at!

Response by LTC J. Lee Mudd made Apr 10 at 2015 12:17 AM

LTC J. Lee Mudd — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 00:17:58 -0400

During research for writing my master's thesis, I developed a relationship with a gentleman who'd been a platoon leader, company XO, and commander in the 756th Tank Battalion (later the 73rd Armor and now the 73rd Cavalry Regiment) in WW II. He referred to it as "the officer's Good Conduct Medal."

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 9:26 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:26:12 -0400

I saw people get the Bronze Star just because they were over the rank of E6 even if they just stayed in the TOC. There were E4 and E5 who just got ARCOM when they deserved the Bronze Star.

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Apr 20 at 2015 12:02 PM

SSG Dave Rogers — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:02:54 -0400

The argument or discussion of medals, their approval and who should or should not be awarded them have and will go on for a long time. Sadly as long as there is the human factor in place, there may never be a satisfactory answer to this.

I have seen whole squads be awarded a BSM for the actions of just a few in the squad, than again I have seen soldiers go above and beyond and receive nothing. This situation changes not only from soldier to soldier, but also from unit to unit. There are units that are very reserved when it comes to awarding medals, than I have seen other units that give them out for even the smallest thing. I have seen soldiers who are fair when it comes to recommending medals, than i have seen others who use their personal emotions when it comes to who they recommend awards for. Again it goes back to the human factor, no matter how hard we try as long as the system stays the same, it may never really seem totally fair to everyone, and who knows if it ever will.

I am sure that we all have a story about something we did which we felt deserved recognition for and yet never received anything in the way of an award or medal.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made Apr 20 at 2015 2:20 PM

SFC Douglas Duckett — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:20:57 -0400

Up in till 2011, over 2 mil personnel deployed overseas in Iraq/ Afghanistan. This does not count double or triple deployments. Out of that (2010) appx 100,000 BSMs were awarded. It does not sound like they were handed out like candy. During Vietnam, 2,709,918 and saw over 700,000 BSM presented.

I earned my BSM in Ramadi 2003-2004, for my PSG service and going out on more than 60 combat patrols (mostly foot). I heard some resentment from others, oh well. My BSM is a higher award than the MSM I received for 23.5 years of active and 6.5 years of reserve service when I was medically retired. I have resentment for that.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Apr 20 at 2015 3:39 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 15:39:21 -0400

The problem with the BSM, is that it can be given for both exemplary service in a combat zone (equivalent to MSM) or for combat valor. IMHO that is the root of the issue with it. It needs ot be one or the other. IMHO, it should be a valor award only and the MSM be allowed full time ot recognzie high level of combat zone service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 8:03 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:03:26 -0400

As a holder of one BSM w/V and three BSMs, I get a lot of flack. I am judged on the fact that I have several and many assumed it was because of my rank. My BSM w/V and two others were earned for combat while I was an E6. My fourth was given to me as the command put out that only PSG and above could be submitted for BSMs on my last deployment. I fought tooth and nail to give mine up for one of my SLs to no avail. It pissed me off that a command would insist on only giving certain awards to certain ranks. Especially to those who do the daily grind and put themselves in danger on a constant basis. By doing this it really takes the value of the award away!!!

Response by SSG Arnie Jones made Apr 21 at 2015 9:20 PM

SSG Arnie Jones — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 21:20:39 -0400

Desert Storm: Personally, I was put in for the Bronze with "V". Somewhere, it was downgraded to an ARCOM with "V". Afterwards, It was found out that I was "The One" in my 11M Bradley unit that identified and kill the first T-72 Tank in the 3rd Armored Division (and with the 1st TOW missile fired). The Brigade Cdr later address the issue of hitting the Iraq's then Republican Guard, Tawakalna (?) Division and he added to my awards the Bronze Star (for Service in Combat). Personally, I am proud of my award. If I were not, I would have left this comment out.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 10:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:17:34 -0400

I will just say one thing and leave it at that. From August 13 to may 14 I was deployed in Afghanistan. At our end of tour award ceremony a majority of our E6 and above , to include every single officer in my company, was awarded the BSM. You can see how this would cause dissatisfaction with other lower enlisted soldiers and leave a bad taste in their mouths. Most of these awards were given to staff and operations leaders. Soldiers were outside the wire everyday and didn't receive these. I busted my ass for 9 straight months and received an AAM. my original award was downgraded . 9 months and an AAM? This is why the award system is jacked up. I see guys getting AAMs for field problems.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 11:56 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:56:22 -0400

I'm not trying to brag, although I know to some it will sound like it. I just wanted to put my own experience in this post.
I earned, and I put emphasis on earned, my first BSM as a SPC. I was part of a Brigade Command Team PSD. Long story short, myself and other personnel on the PSD saved lives that day. At the end of the tour when we were getting our awards, all the Captain and Majors who were also getting a BSM for their work on the FOB, were giving us the evil eye, as if saying, " Why the hell are those SPCs and Sergeants getting BSMs?" I earned my second one when I was attached to an ODA team. We did some good stuff that deployment too.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 9:58 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 09:58:29 -0400

I had Amn going outside the wire and doing great things for AF, Army and the Afghani people, and the best I could get them approved for were ARCOMs (and we were very grateful for those). However the two I put in for BSM were denied by the same hierarchy dimwits (AFCENT) that apparently approved them for two female finance NCOs.

http://archive.airforcetimes.com/article/20120416/NEWS/204160301/Tech-sgts-take-heat-after-receiving-medals

End of the day - we know what we did and how we did it, even if some desk jockey joke tucked away far from the battle doesn't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 12:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 12:42:46 -0400

As much as the Command says the Bronze Star is not based on a Soldier's rank; the facts show that it still is. Practically impossible for an E6 or below to be awarded one, even if supported by two O6 signatures. Should be solely based on merit and very little to have to do with the individual's rank, as it was created for.

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 24 at 2015 8:19 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 24 May 2015 08:19:46 -0400

I knew of a LCDR when I was stationed in Hawaii who got a Bronze Star while on IA deployment to an Army unit in Afghanistan. He never "left the wire." I don't know what he did to earn the medal/never saw his citation, but I thought that a little weird when I saw other people coming back from Afghanistan who did "supposedly" leave the wire with a Joint Service Achievement/Commendation medal(s).

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2015 3:20 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:20:10 -0400

Tough one Eric...this was a major point of discussion around the mid 2000s as I recall. I was part of that often questioned experiment called "ETTs". For those unfamiliar, this involved taking relatively senior enlisted/officer volunteers from the Navy and Air Force, running them through a period of training at Ft. Dix and Ft. Riley, before sending them to augment Army personnel serving as advisers to the ANA. In the early days, of which I was a part, there was little SOP on what we would be doing/not be doing, and owing to the "can do" attitude fostered in the Fleet, a lot of sailors ended up pretty far downrange. For sake of security, all I'll say is that I spent a night or two under the stars (and a HUMVEE). As a result, some of these said sailors found themselves under indirect fire periodically..."direct fire" according to some reports. At end of tour, this posed some difficult questions to unit commanders drafting award packages. Does a Navy E-7 who led a convoy that got hit by a VBIED deserve "combat action" credentials? How about a commissioned sailor who had a sniper take a shot at him? How does this measure up against sailors who routinely volunteered to assist true combat units as individuals (someone's always short a gunner)? It became very subjective, and the Navy's position was to default to the less "dramatic" version. Besides, our mission was "non-combat" by definition, and no one was looking to play games when our Army and Marine peers were participating in sustained firefights. All in all, it was one of those uncomfortable things created by what was viewed as an ambiguous standard applied to all for what should be a clear honor for the few.

Response by Sgt William Biggs made Aug 13 at 2015 9:37 PM

Sgt William Biggs — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:37:11 -0400

My biggest problem is the misconception of the award. I saw an airman that was awarded a Bronze Star for duties in garrison. No big deal, considering her actions warranted one without a "V". My issue is that most don't know to distinguish between the two. I am even more perturbed because there are plenty of BSM recipients that don't correct people when they thank them for their heroics. The average civilian, and probably service member, assume that you had to be in some serious shit to be awarded that. It is almost like it needs a disclaimer and educational pamphlets!

Response by 1stSgt John Sims made Oct 21 at 2015 4:26 PM

1stSgt John Sims — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:26:34 -0400

Blah blah blah. It is simple, stop upgrading other commendations to the bronze star simply because the award was written in a combat zone. I actually had to fight for a bronze star for one of our members because office pukes on the East Coast kicked it back. The young man was in a firefight rendering aid to soldiers, the argument was he did not discharge his own weapon. In the meantime E-9's and officers were writing bronze stars for themselves in theater, just for being there. I was actually ostracized in our office because I was the only first sergeant who would not write a medal for myself. I was so disgusted with the whole process, senior members were concerned about how their mess dress will look when they get home then what's actually happening in the field. As an Air Force first sergeant the whole thing became a joke.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2015 10:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:58:06 -0400

I think the AAM is held with MORE disdain across EVERY rank.

Response by SGT Robert Zuniga made Oct 22 at 2015 10:03 AM

SGT Robert Zuniga — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:03:05 -0400

My views on the medals are also jaded. When we were leaving OEF 3, we conducted numerous missions an patrols during the entire deployment. When the deployment came to an end, we were told that we could write up our soldiers for either an Arcom or below but we were only given two and the rest would have to get an AAM. Meanwhile our platoon sear grant and above all got bronze stars. It was craziness. Regardless of situations and actions. We had to just settle. I had to look one of my Joes in the eye and hand him a COA for dutifully serving his country.

Response by COL Sam Russell made Oct 22 at 2015 11:10 AM

COL Sam Russell — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:10:02 -0400

Great question and discussion. This is a debate that is as old as awards in the army. Following the Civil War, the primary method of recognizing gallantry or meritorious service for officers was brevet promotions, truly a Congressional award as it required Senate confirmation. Congress couldn't help itself in bestowing these honors on Civil War veterans, to the point that any regular army officer who did not have at least one brevet promotion was considered by most as having failed in his duties. the Medal of Honor also went through similar inflation until the Secretary of War in 1897 spelled out in detail what he (not Congress) considered the standard for meriting the military's only medal.

"…in order that the Congressional Medal of Honor may be deserved, service must have been performed in action as such conspicuous character to clearly distinguish the man for gallantry and intrepidity above his comrades–service that involved extreme jeopardy of life or the performance of extraordinary hazardous duty. Recommendations for the decoration will be judged by this standard of extraordinary merit, and incontestible proof of performance of the service will be exacted."

The first lesser wartime awards came into existence in 1918, the DSC for valor and the DSM for meritorious service, in order to keep the Medal of Honor from being inflated again. The Silver Star was originally called the Silver Citation, and was a device that was worn on a campaign medal. Even the Certificate of Merit that was introduced during the Mexican War and was only authorized for enlisted soldiers--and for the first 50 years only for Privates--was seen by many as more elite than a Medal of Honor, as it entitled the recipient to $2 a month additional pay--a 14% increase in pay for a "private" solider, where the Medal of honor provided no such stipend.

Response by SGT William Howell made Oct 22 at 2015 11:40 AM

SGT William Howell — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:40:12 -0400

I have so much disdain for this medal I can't even express what a slap in the face for all soldiers this should be. It is the only medal we issue based off rank and it disgust me. It is an turned into an elitist medal that goes against all we stand for. "Mission First, Troops Always."

Let me tell you. If we were eating as a unit and an officer or NCO were in line before the soldiers my 1SG would drop a deuce. Soldiers ALWAYS eat first! Soldiers are taken care of by those over them. We are no better than a slick sleeve. It is because of them that we win battles. That 19 year old life is no less important than any other soldier on the battlefield. My Top did that because he wanted our soldiers to know we care about them.

When you tell a guy that he can't have a medal because he isn't high enough rank you destroy everything they believed about the command structure. When he can see that it does not matter how hard you work that it is only for the elite and that the common soldier can't have it you have killed moral. When it becomes, "Mission First, Officers, E-6s, and above Second, Troops Last", we are no better than the some third world army with a dictator that makes up medals to give to himself.

It may be that the BSM is awarded to people that did deserve it, but I can tell you it has been awarded to a shitload more chair sitters and FOBits that did nothing to deserve it. For no other reason than the rank on their shoulders. Of course, I would have never got one I was not elite enough, but if I had, I would have thrown it right in the blue water. It is a medal that is against everything I stood for as an NCO and a soldier.

Don't get me started that that POS medal outranks a Purple Heart. A man sheds blood for his country and some E-6 boot licker gets a medal that takes precedence over it.

I am going to stroke out, so end of rant. Sorry!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2015 5:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Nov 2015 05:08:40 -0500

Very informative! Thank you! But I am still to this day pissed about coming home from Iraq to the states to have our Rear-D supply Sgt being given one! She never deployed because she was pregnant....AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN! She never went to a single FTX let alone a war or deployment! Rifle Qual. Forget it! - Pregnant! PT- ??? - Pregnant!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2015 7:43 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Nov 2015 07:43:43 -0500

I've seen his medal get awarded to people just for doing their jobs. In Afghanistan I saw it being awarded to a major who was clearly overweight, did 6 months in theater and everything she did was done from an air conditioned office. The whole formation gasped when they announced it. Awards are something that is meant to show what you have done. They feel more like give aways when we see this kinda thing happen though.

Response by Georgia Roth-Calonico made Nov 10 at 2015 12:11 PM

Georgia Roth-Calonico — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 12:11:27 -0500

My brother received a bronze star with a V devise in Vietnam during the in 1968. He always said the same thing, that the medal did not mean much as it was just handed out to most anyone. He got a letter of commendation from the military, He ran 150 meters in intense enemy fire, to take over a mortar, and helped to secure his unit. He claimed he did not intentionally want to be a hero. He was going to die also. Sadly I have looked up his name, I have read the letter, seen his medal, but he does not show up, on any log. The letter explains his heroism that I explained.

Response by SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT made Dec 5 at 2015 5:28 PM

SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 17:28:05 -0500

I have a problem with the fact that during my over 6 months in extremely violent Somalia as part of the UN multinational forces. I was awarded an MSM for a combat zone. I was avoiding burning tire barricades during the Pakastanis stadium ambush heading to the 10th Mountain helicopter base. We were providing classified comms and data links back to Walter Reed for the first live surgery interaction in combat during the Balkan Market an area I had driven thru numerous times during my deployment. Our sleeping billets was adjacent to the hospital helipad that received incoming mortars. We were liiterally prisoners with guns with danger all around and sandbags and wire matting in the window frames were they only form of available vehicle protection

Response by Sgt Jim Keeffe made Dec 18 at 2015 6:39 PM

Sgt Jim Keeffe — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:39:46 -0500

My father recently passed away at 92 years old. He was a B-24 bomber pilot during WWII, was shot down and spent 5 months with the Dutch Resistance before being captured and made a POW. He made a career out of the USAF retiring in 1966. During Korea, he flew on many B29 missions. He has a Bronze Star Medal in his shadow box, but by the time I got around to asking him about it, his memory was failing. All he said was, "I don't really remember - it was in support of the Marines in Korea." I requested info from the military records center and they mentioned every medal in his shadow box, except for the Bronze Star. My father was a man of high moral and ethical fiber and I know he would never - ever - display any medal that he did not earn. Is there any way he could have earned that Bronze Star, but there be no record of it? I've attached a photo of his shadow box of medals. BTW, my father make the wings on the left from tin can lead while in the POW camp Stalag Luft III.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2015 1:01 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Dec 2015 13:01:29 -0500

The BSM without a "V" device is also meant for Meritorious Service during an armed conflict. The MSM was created as a peacetime equivalent to the BSM. The regs clearly state it can be issued for meritorious service. This is direct from AR 600-8-22:

a. The BSM was established by EO 9419, 4 February 1944 (superseded by EO 11046, 24 August 1962, as amended
by EO 13286, 28 February 2003 and PL 111–383, Section 571 of the 2011 National Defense Authorization Act).
b. The BSM is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the Armed Forces of the United
States, or a friendly foreign nation, after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious
achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, in connection with military operations against an
armed enemy; or while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which the
United States is not a belligerent party. 10 USC 1133 limits award of the BSM to Servicemembers receiving imminent
danger pay and members of a friendly military force who are serving in a geographic area in which special pay is
authorized under 37 USC 310 or 37 USC 351(a) (1) and (3) or special pay under any of the following circumstances:
(1) While engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States.
(2) While engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force.
(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in
which the United States is not a belligerent party.
c. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser
degree than required for the award of the SS.
d. When the BSM is awarded for heroism, a bronze letter "V" (for valor) is worn on the suspension and service
ribbon of that medal.
e. A BSM recommendation that is downgraded will be approved as an ARCOM.
f. The BSM may be awarded for meritorious achievement or meritorious service according to the following:
(1) Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The lesser degree than that
required for the award of the LM must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.

I will agree that is oftentimes awarded based on rank which is a crock. The whole mentality of "the Soldier doesn't have an AAM so he couldn't have done a job worth an ARCOM" has got to go. The BSM has been watered down from what it was meant for.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2015 1:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:51:20 -0500

I've seen the BSM given out as a participation award. Sad

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jan 2 at 2016 9:36 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 21:36:06 -0500

I grew up with a serious respect for anyone with a BS because in order to receive the BS you had to kick some serious butt in a big-time way in combat no less. I have always based my respect on that earlier time and still do today, even though for many reasons the standards have either slipped or expanded as to cloud the criteria and result in uneven application of the criteri. This is a great disservice to those who earned the medal the old fashioned way, by closing with and killing the enemy in any way possible. Perhaps some day things will swing back the opposite direction in the awarding all service awards. Until then we will have to abide by recruits being presented a medal for completing their recruit training.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2016 11:37 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 23:37:56 -0500

Now that the Afghan and Iraq Wars are over, are soldiers eligible for this as a end of your award ?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 3:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:19:17 -0500

While I agree with this to a point, the Bronze Star has become a farce, I worked at Ft. Hood with a SSG who had his leg shredded in a road side bomb on their HUMVEE, he was thrown clear, yet he under small arms fire went back to the vehicle and pulled two of his soldiers out of the burning vehicle and was awarded an ARCOM with V device. My commander and Senior NCO did little to nothing but sit in an office and look at our reports yet they gave themselves a B.S.

Response by COL Ronald Diana made Feb 13 at 2016 1:26 PM

COL Ronald Diana — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 13:26:34 -0500

Interesting! As I was told it was the lateral equivalent of the MSM since the MSM was not supposed to be issued in a combat zone or theater of operation.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Feb 14 at 2016 7:59 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 19:59:05 -0500

It's basically like the Service Achievment or Commendation medals in a combat zone. Those can be awarded (at least in the Navy and USMC) with a V device as well.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 10:23 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:23:34 -0500

The Bronze Star is a COMBAT DECORATION !! The Army Commendation IS NOT !!

ONLY when a V-DEVICE is put on BOTH awards -- Then its for an ACTUAL COMBAT ENGAGEMENT OR ACTION !!!!!

The BRONZE STAR and ARMY COMMENDATION when given for Meritorious Service OR Achievement are for NON- COMBAT reasons !!!

SO why is the ARMY awarding ARMY COMMENDATIONS for MERITORIOUS SERVICE AND ACHIEVEMENT to soldiers who engage in ACTUAL COMBAT with a NON-COMBAT ARMY COMMENDATION for MERITORIOUS SERVICE OR ACHIEVEMENT ??????

REMEMBERING --THE BRONZE STAR IS STILL A COMBAT DECORATION REGARDLESS IF IT HAS A V-DEVICE OR NOT !!!!!!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 12:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:12:17 -0500

I was awarded a BSM during my last deployment to Iraq. Though I did not perform any single "heroic act", I was responsible for the inventory and turn in of over $325 million worth of Army equipment that had been left in theater by previous units. I was responsible for the inventory, shutdown and turnover to the Iraqis of 3 FOBs. Myself and my E7 supply SGT single-handedly inventoried the contents of over 500 forty foot connexes. Much of this equipment had been written off as "field loss" because previous units were too lazy to inventory it or simply didn't want the hassle of shipping it back home. Therefore most of this equipment was not on anyone's property book and I had to come up with "unique and innovative" methods of reallocating or disposing of this stuff, all without violating the letter of army regs. IMHO, I "earned" my BSM just as much as the next guy.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2016 9:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 09:16:03 -0500

If the Bronze Star for Meritorious Service and Meritorious Achievement are awarded for NON-COMBAT performance THEN why is the Army Commendation given for Meritorious Service or Achievement FOR COMBAT ACTIONS for ranks of E-1 thru E-6 ?? The Army Commendation is NOT or ever was a COMBAT DECORATION when given for Meritorious Service or Achievement. ONLY FOR COMBAT WHEN ITS AWARDED WITH A V-DEVICE LIKE THE BRONZE STAR !!!!! ITS ONLY an award that can be given in a combat ZONE like the MSM OR ARMY ACHIEVEMENT. BASED ON THE NEW REGULATIONS that have come out about these awards.

Response by SSG Jesse Cheadle made Mar 8 at 2016 10:46 PM

SSG Jesse Cheadle — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 22:46:20 -0500

Screw the regs, its rank based and about as useful as toilet paper at the end of the day. No resentment here. Carry on.

Response by SGM Thomas Raymann made Mar 10 at 2016 12:11 PM

SGM Thomas Raymann — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:11:02 -0500

just remember this, once you leave the service..no one gives a damn what your rack looks like. the rack represents the past and not the future and is not representative of future employment or performance.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 11:56 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:56:33 -0400

I'm pretty sure the new standard for the Bronze Star is to be a Sergeant Major and fart near Iraq or Afghanistan, then you rate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2016 10:57 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:57:22 -0400

Its not right for Officers and career soldiers to offer the Bronze Star medal to enlisted soldiers E-1 to E-6 ONLY if the award is with a V-device !!!
This is NOT nor EVER was the reason this award was created.
This award was created for ALL ranks regardless of position or authority !! The Bronze Star is to be awarded to ANY soldier while serving in ANY capacity !! ANY CAPACITY MEANS ANY RANK !! The same lower ranks was the intent for this award in WWII, Korea , and Vietnam. The Higher Command has thrown out that concept making it impossible for the ORIGINAL INTENT to be awarded too lower ranks.
THIS SHOWS A COMPLETE DISREGARD AND DISRESPECT OF THEIR SOLDIERS AND THEIR LIVES !!!!

WARS ARE WON BY PRIVATES NOT GENERALS !!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 3:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 15:53:53 -0400

The discussions of the Bronze Star are not about anyone who has received this award !!! It should focus on the Regulations for this award and if soldiers feel those Regulations should be changed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2016 7:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:37:30 -0400

Yes ,The Army Awards a Combat Decoration { Bronze Star } for NON-COMBAT for Meritorious Service OR Achievement !!!

Then Awards a Lower NON- COMBAT Decoration { Army Commendation } for Meritorious Service OR Achievement to Infantrymen for COMBAT !!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2016 7:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:46:26 -0400

Yes The Army awards the Bronze Star for Non-combat and a lower NON-COMBAT medal of the Army Commendation for Meritorious Service OR Achievement for being in ACTUAL COMBAT to INFANTRYMEN !!!!

ITS CALLED CHEAPENING PEOPLES LIVES !!!!!!!!

Response by SPC James Dollins made Mar 25 at 2016 10:01 AM

SPC James Dollins — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:01:14 -0400

I was kind of irritated that my E-6 received one just for one simple convoy op from Kuwait to Iraq. I thought it was a bit much! but then again, who am I?

Response by CPT James Burkholder made Apr 21 at 2016 12:30 PM

CPT James Burkholder — Thu, 21 Apr 2016 12:30:13 -0400

I'm sorry but I am pretty much proud that I got a bronze star. OK, I was an MD, drafted and then found out I could "enlist" and get a commission. So I did, and spent 4 months in Korea and then transferred to RVN. I spent 22 months there. I didn't see actual combat but still commanded a medical company of wonderful men. I can understand that my receipt of this offends guys who dragged their butts through the jungle and watched their comrades die. But still, I tried to do what I could.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Apr 22 at 2016 2:03 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 14:03:09 -0400

I liked the guidance we got from 4ID and the 16th EN BDE on the 05-07 rotation for considering the award of the Bronze Star verses the MSM and ARCOM. Exposure to the enemy, contribution to or support to combat ops, impact on combat ops. This really helped us as a command group to get folks the awards that more accurately reflected their contribution.

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made Apr 22 at 2016 3:03 PM

SSG Jeremy Kohlwes — Fri, 22 Apr 2016 15:03:23 -0400

Unfortunately the current politcal environment of the military has perverted what was once a great way to recognize the efforts of combat soldiers. Now units only get a certain allocation they are allowed to award for service and those usually get distributed down the ranks starting at the top. Little regard is given for the efforts of the the lower ranking soldiers.

Response by SGM Joel Cook made Jun 15 at 2016 6:36 AM

SGM Joel Cook — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 06:36:38 -0400

You bring up a few good issues about the bronze star. I was awarded one myself for doing a 14 month tour in Iraq. When my boss told me he was putting me in for the award I squawked about possibly not deserving it. He must have given it some significant thought before hand, as he was able to recite 8-10 missions or accomplishments that only our section had to endure when literally no other sections in III Corps had done them. We he finished I had nothing to say but OK. It reminds me of an old adige that goes something like, " I don't know how to accurately describe bravery but I know it when I see it. Following that adige if I read the citation on any Bronze Star I can tell right off if it was deserved or not. This goes double if it was given with the V for valor device. Unfortunately sometimes I am sure the award was due but the writer did not have the skills needed to articulate the deeds accomplished. On one hand, I read the citation of a vehicle maintenance officer who sat in an air conditioned office in Kuwait, eating real food in spectacular environmental conditions, with a full crew, he somehow managed to keep all of his seldom used vehicles in top operational condition. I still wonder if that Bronze Star was truly earned. On the other hand I was asked to review the citations, before submission, of two Silver Stars with V devises, that included large numbers of enemy combatants killed. Both the soldiers were severly wounded during the actions that required surgery and weeks in the hospital. After reading the situations one of my first questions to the writer of the Awards was why weren't they Medals of Honor. I got to interview one of the soldiers after he was returned to duty in Iraq and after he shared the story of how the events unfolded, I felt even more sure he should have got the Medal. The other soldier was to badly wounded and was never able to return to duty so I never got to talk to him. After he was medically stabilized he was Medevaced to Germany, then to Walter Reed never to return. I told that Marine Corp Corparal he should write a book or at least a narrative of the battle as that is the stuff that adventure and glory are made of.

Response by COL John Hudson made Jun 16 at 2016 10:02 PM

COL John Hudson — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:02:15 -0400

During my 30 years of Army service, I've seen any and all of the anecdotal situations spoken about throughout this thread. Haves and Have-nots, award conflicts, improper and incorrect awards...yada, yada, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. "Perception is reality" regardless of the individual factors / environment / situation that occurred for any particular BSM award. I was boots on the ground in three wars (Vietnam 2x // Balkan Conflict 1x // Iraq - 2 twenty-month tours)...and NOT behind a desk at any point. Service members look at my extensive 3-war rack and I've been on the butt end of numerous (sotto voce) whispers, finger pointing and the like. I finally gave up and quit wearing the thing - stuffed it in a drawer somewhere. Easy - that stopped the stares and questions nonsense, leaving me contented to just be one of the guys with nothing to set me apart (or pushed aside) because of petty awards jealousy. My family knows what I've accomplished and that's more important to me personally than parading around looking like a battery-operated neon sign!

Response by LTC Andy Liebeknecht made Jun 20 at 2016 9:31 AM

LTC Andy Liebeknecht — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 09:31:27 -0400

Witnessed first hand that the award was given to E7 or above, this was the unwritten directive that circulated in Corps in 2004 and 2005, following suit of the initial OIF push. Providing an award for being there and not meritorious service is a joke that has tarnished the BSM. As a LTC, I was disappointed at this fact.

Response by Bill Jewell made Jul 24 at 2016 11:45 AM

Bill Jewell — Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:45:38 -0400

My grandfather was a Bazooka Gunner in WWII 2nd Infantry 23 Regiment, Fought in the Battle of the Buldge, Landed on Omaha Beach, received Purple hearts and was responsible for knocking out tanks. Several books written about the 2nd Infantry, 23rd regiment and many stories I hold dear my grandfather telling me. I proudly display his many medals in my display case at home. This post and many comments from people make it sound like the Bronze Medal he received means nothing and you dilute the honor by which he received it. He suffered wounds during fighting the enemy in the Battle of the Buldge to prove his valor
Edit

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2016 9:40 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 21:40:44 -0400

in my unit office rats were awarded bronze or even silver stars, never spent a day outside the wire, me spent 70% outside the wire, recieved cab, and got msm

Response by LTC Andy Liebeknecht made Sep 15 at 2016 12:23 PM

LTC Andy Liebeknecht — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:23:44 -0400

Tarnishing of the Bronze Star (Written in 2005)
I am a recent returning combat veteran from Iraq and am concerned about the issuance of some awards within the military. My primary concern is the awarding of Bronze Star Medals (BSMs) to some individuals who might not be entitled.
Units serving in Iraq are informed by the command elements that only 10 percent of the personnel from their unit will be awarded the Bronze Star Medal if deemed. This limit is understandable during Operation Iraqi Freedom 1 (OIF 1), numerous awards were presented to so many people that a limit had to be placed on awards. However, is the limiting of awards ensuring that these awards are going to the proper personnel?
During OIF 2, Corps informed us that only one award would be given to a soldier for a one year tour. Some units have put a rank limit on the types of awards given, for example, I heard that a Bronze Star Medal would only be granted to senior enlisted or officers, which defeats the purpose of the award system.
Many a good soldier has given their life in support of this operation, yet the recognition is less than forthcoming.
I read an article in an Air Force periodical that explained how an airman in Kuwait, during OIF 1, was awarded the Bronze Star Medal. His accomplishments included pumping an extra 100 thousand gallons of fuel during his rotation and numerous times his base was under a “code red”. While his effort leads to the success of the mission, did it justify the awarding of such a distinguished award?
Another example of abuse of the system is a recent officer returning was awarded a Bronze Star Medal after it was discovered that he was manufacturing alcohol, a direct violation of the Commanding General’s standing order, and provided the alcohol to his subordinates. The commander that put the officer in for the award was aware of the incident but still processed the award and ensured that his award was processed.
The indirect fire and direct fire incidents in Kuwait appear to be extensively less than those in Iraq. Isn’t it bad enough that these Soldiers receive combat pay, a combat patch, and tax-free pay without providing them such high awards as Bonze Star Medals while not having to endure the experience of combat?
Give the award to the private and other junior enlisted or NCOs, walking the patrols in downtown Baghdad or some other “red (hot) zone” in Iraq, where a shot might ring out and kill them at any second. Let’s stop the political game and stop having those of us that remained inside a semi-safe forward operating base (FOB), rarely having to mingle with the local inhabitants (victims and terrorists) of Iraq.
I was fortunate in receiving a Joint Commendation Medal, basically equivalent to an Army Commendation (in peace time), but again I witnessed numerous officers and senior enlisted receive Bronze Star Medals for merely doing their job and nothing above or beyond that call. I believe my award was justified.
During the last Presidential election there were various questions about military service and awards; as well, personnel from this conflict should be questioned. This tarnishing of the Bronze Star Medal needs to stop and a complete re-evaluation of the awards process needs to be conducted by all branches of the military immediately.
If I were awarded a Bronze Star Medal, I don’t believe that I would wear it, having witnessed the injustice that has occurred to so many fine soldiers that were put in greater harm's way than I and obviously more deserving.
The demeaning belittling methodology of issuing awards during the recent conflict is an insult to the fine soldier, past and present, who perform their hazardous duties in a devoted and honourable manner.
So the next time you see someone with a Bronze Star Medal, ask them what they did to be awarded the medal and you judge if their accomplishments merited the award or were they just the 10 percent that fell into the criteria set forth by the command.

A concerned military field-grade officer

Response by SPC Wayne Wright made Oct 6 at 2016 8:02 PM

SPC Wayne Wright — Thu, 06 Oct 2016 20:02:37 -0400

I was a crew cheif on a CH47 that was awarded the "V" device for valor, for the extraction of US military personnel and Vietnamise civilians from suspected NVA villages why were we not awarded the Bronze Star to go long with that, so it would be the Bronze Star with the "V" device for Valor,it sure seems to fit the criteria that the Bronze Star has, everything was long overdue for us vets it would seem only fair to give us at least what we deserve. If its possible to get this award could you email me and let me know Thank You, my email is [login to see] .

Response by SFC Mark Connolly made Nov 3 at 2016 1:29 AM

SFC Mark Connolly — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 01:29:48 -0400

Unfortunately, the Bronze Star has become this era's ARCOM.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Nov 3 at 2016 8:31 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 08:31:19 -0400

The BSM this award has many up in arms because this award is not given for the correct reason, I served 3 tours in Iraq and in stead of BSM I was given MSMs and ARCOMs for my actions and Duties, Its not about me it about the NCOs and Commander who sat in the FOBs and other areas who did their jobs but never really saw combat but their soldiers did , what did their soldier get, one, Certificate of appreciation and no award or AAM or ARCOM and OIF or OEF combat ribbons, which makes them feel like real heroes. (RIGHT) Then they have to do multiple tours and some lives and families fall apart. BSM given to SFC above for service to their country and don't get me start on LT and above because that is whole different story. What slap in the face is when your standing in front of your peers and LEADERS in awards formations and they get you, after and everyone else gets the BSM and you lauded a freak belt buckle. So don't tell me that award is given to the wrong people for the wrong thing, I happy that I do not have the BSM now because I learned my lesson and it has taken me other places and taught me other things, not be a follower of awards and I am still a HERO in my little girls eyes.

STEPHENS'

Response by SPC Wayne Wright made Apr 6 at 2017 6:17 PM

SPC Wayne Wright — Thu, 06 Apr 2017 18:17:26 -0400

I was awarded the "V" device for heroism while flying as a door gunner in nam,also many other medals including 12 air medals alone,am I entitled to the BSM

Response by CMSgt Larry Ward made Apr 19 at 2017 11:00 AM

CMSgt Larry Ward — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:00:19 -0400

I was Honored by being given the Bronze Star for Service during Desert Storm....I thank all the Airman who made that happen and the B-52 Bombers that ROCKED IRAQ!!!!!!

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Apr 19 at 2017 2:39 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:39:03 -0400

On my next to last deployment they were handing these out like candy and I was in a joint billet. I had to leave the deployment early due to a medical condition where I couldn't stay in theater. I was there just shy of three months. When I discussed my departure with the Army Colonel I was working for she told me that she would submit the paperwork for a medal. I told her to not bother...I didn't earn it. Problem I see with medals is that we have handed them out so much that they don't carry or hold any meaning. The only ones to me that have any meaning and that I respect are Medal of Honor...because you did something so miraculous and heroic that you either died or put yourself in a position to save others and could have died, the Purple Heart because you were injured in the act of combat. Both of these have retirement benefits and take care of the individual for life and thus are awarded under deep scrutiny. The rest to me are just eye candy and hubris with the only value being points awarded in a promotion board. IMHO.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Apr 19 at 2017 2:54 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:54:03 -0400

I am a Vietnam era, 27 months in-country in Korea and it seemed like those of us in Korea were overlooked while those that were in Vietnam were beneficiaries of a greater number of awards. The BSM is an excellent example of this in action. While most of the guys I know that we in 'Nam proudly wear the BSM while those of us in Korea (in many cases a more difficult deployment) seldom saw the Bronze Star. My Section leader, an O-2 (newly promoted) told me that he had initiated the paperwork or whatever the process for myself and two of the guys in my section (I was section chief at the time.) By the time I left Korea I also ETS'd. So, I don't know whatever happened to that award. Funny that since I got out I have received two awards from the Army in the mail that were created in recent years and made retroactive to some prior date. I was puzzled by both these awards for two reasons: 1) How did the Army find out that I qualified and 2) Why did they send them to me without my asking or paying for them. Sometimes, well, make that most often I am at a loss as to how the DOA and the DOD operate. And - amazingly - they have my new home address - maybe from the VA.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 26 at 2017 11:10 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 26 May 2017 11:10:40 -0400

I jokingly refer to mine as third place or perfect attendance. I don't have occasion to wear it. It was signed by Westmoreland, I guess that's something

Response by SSG Carlos AcostaCastro made Jun 1 at 2017 2:37 PM

SSG Carlos AcostaCastro — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 14:37:21 -0400

Today's army handed out Bronze Stars to Officers that never leave the FOB like candy while we have enlisted that they do and puts their live on the line every single day and all they get are either AAM's or ARCOMS

Response by CPT David Jones made Jun 8 at 2017 8:21 AM

CPT David Jones — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 08:21:48 -0400

My mom gave me a 201 file my Dad (retired SGM, now 98 YO) kept at home and I was noticed his DD214 does not denote a 'V" device for the BSM, only denotes 2OLC. Yet the orders are there issued by 1ID, for the V device. Is this an oversight? He always wore the V, but if it should be on his official record I would like to have it corrected. I have a feeling there are other errors also but this jumped out at me.

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Jun 24 at 2017 9:49 PM

MSgt Jason McClish — Sat, 24 Jun 2017 21:49:33 -0400

I've deployed to Iraq five times, four during OIF and the most recent for OIR. Of the five times,I could strongly say two were Bronze Star worthy or at least highly probable. The other three were probably Commendation criteria. What I ended up earning were 4 commendations and an Achievement. The achievement was deserved as I had some very minor, but corrected "trouble". I know I was submitted for a BSM my 3rd trip there, but the BDE commander wasn't going to sign off on it. My most recent trip, the squadron commander wasn't going to sign off on it as the group had a policy of awards based on rank categories. I've always wanted to earn the Bronze Star, ever since my grandfather died. I know in my heart, I've earned it based on award criteria, just didn't have the rank to pull it off I guess. Side note, all five deployments, I've been the weather guy on the ground for either the entire Combat Aviation Brigade or the Division, so scope of responsibility was fairly high as we're considered "special staff" for the Army and have full authority to go straight to the commanding officer. I have worked for a few of the best Army leaders this quarter of a century and got the luxury of taking things straight to that COL or MG.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Nov 14 at 2017 9:37 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:37:03 -0500

Third place

Response by SA Jerry Conner made Dec 9 at 2017 8:49 PM

SA Jerry Conner — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 20:49:16 -0500

I have a question I hope someone can answer for me. The Navy & Marine Corp. Meitorious Unit Commendation is awarded for the same service required for a bronze star medal. What does this mean?

Response by SGT Burleson Freddie made Mar 14 at 2018 1:41 AM

SGT Burleson Freddie — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 01:41:35 -0400

As far as I am concerned, Medals are all Political. I have seen people that put their necks out in battles and did not receive squat. I have seen some awarded Bronze Stars W/V and Silver Stars, that did no more than others and some less. I know a Sargent, we had, that he was the last to get out of a bunker, during attacks, yet he was awarded ARCOM w/v, Bronze Star with/v and a Silver Star. I have seen people get wounded, that never received a Purple Heart or a mention, I was sewed up twice in Vietnam. Purple Hearts should go to those that are KIA or suffer major wounds. I had a guy, in my Battery, that was killed from Shrapnel from unexploded enemy mortar rounds, being cleared. No Purple Heart, but just as dead, as if the VC had dropped it on him. You can not even get a Good Conduct Medal, if you served 3 years Active Duty and one year in Combat and your Commander recommended it several times It all rest with your Commander. Yes some really deserve their awards and some don't. Some that really deserve them are flat forgotten.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 14 at 2018 11:14 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:14:31 -0400

Mine was for Perfect Attendance

Response by Cpl Bill Fleischauer made Mar 16 at 2018 2:40 PM

Cpl Bill Fleischauer — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 14:40:41 -0400

One of Army's 37 pieces of flair

Response by Chris LaBoda made Apr 20 at 2018 10:52 AM

Chris LaBoda — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 10:52:51 -0400

I am in the process of getting a bronze marker for my father's grave through the government and have some questions. He served in WW II 247th Army Corp of Engineers. What would I have put on his bronze marker in terms of his service? I have attached his discharge paper that barely survived the St Louis fire of 1973.
Thanks!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2018 10:22 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:22:49 -0400

You may be right. However, it is upsetting that our O-6 got a BSM w/Valor, for the work that we did, however, none of the convey team, that saw direct action, got anything but a ARCOM. The convoy commander said he didn't feel like writing that much????!!!!

Response by CPT John Sheridan made Apr 28 at 2018 11:27 AM

CPT John Sheridan — Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:27:24 -0400

Back at Fort Hood, after the Gulf War, I remember one awards ceremony where a CPT who was a Battalion Motor Officer, received a BSM with V Device for "supervising recovery operations". The citation narrative included no specific actions. My thought, at the time was "where are the recovery crew members". If it was so heroic to supervise men doing something dangerous, then what about the men who actually did it. I recognized it for what it was. A career enhancer for a favored subordinate.

Recently, I looked again at my accumulated fruit salad and honestly, I can't recall where all of AAM's and ARCOM's came from and the almost two rows of ribbons gained from a seven month visit to Saudi Arabia and Iraq hold little meaning for me. One ribbon stands out though and holds emotional value for me. My Good Conduct Medal. Basically it says that I did my job for a while and didn't screw up. In many ways, the GCM serves the same function as many higher medals. Perhaps, we should discard all of these ataboys and replace it with one that says "look at me, I did my job and didn't screw up."

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2018 12:08 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:08:21 -0400

The unfortunate thing with this medal is how senior leaders look toward the junior enlisted. I know of several instances were two people did the exact same job, one received the BSM, one did not. The difference? One was an E-6, one was an E-7. Additionally, I have seen it on other deployments where someone did the same job, but their date of rank wasn’t far back enough.

Response by PV2 Wayne Grinnell made May 11 at 2018 12:08 PM

PV2 Wayne Grinnell — Fri, 11 May 2018 12:08:30 -0400

Ok if the Medal system is broken How far back is it Broken. My Father received the Bronze star with an Oak Leaf cluster, the Air medal with a V and "17" and the Vietnam Service Medal with 2 Silver Stars and a Bronze Star. he has several other medals but these I mentioned are with the additional awards. He did 2 tours in Nam. I've always Looked up to My Father For What He Did. After reading this I get the impression that all He did was for naught. It pisses me off, that for what he did do in 'Nam is being discounted. The Medals that are given have got to Count for Something.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Jul 25 at 2018 2:22 PM

MSG David Johnson — Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:22:00 -0400

I've posted on the subject previously but just came across these articles and found them of interest to this discussion. If they've been posted already I apologize, it's difficult sometimes to get through all the comments on a mobile device.

Bronze Star Medal Debate for RP

Part 1 of 2
https://www.stripes.com/news/gen-marshall-had-a-plan-for-bronze-star-1.42270

Part 2 of 2
https://www.stripes.com/news/most-bronze-stars-for-kosovo-went-to-officers-1.42265

Gen. Marshall had a plan for Bronze Star

Gen. George C. Marshall, who virtually invented the Bronze Star during World War II, had some advice when awarding the medal.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2018 7:58 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Jul 2018 07:58:29 -0400

I was awarded theBronze Star Medal for Meritorious Service. I was mortared, rocketed and fired at by snipers. I had no idea I would receive this honor until I was handed the award order that clearly stated Meritorious Service. I think I met the requirements and I am honored to display what my Superiors thought I deserved.

Response by SFC Dale Treece made Aug 9 at 2018 4:09 PM

SFC Dale Treece — Thu, 09 Aug 2018 16:09:27 -0400

Ide like to know how my First SGT and Commander got their Bronze Stares during the Gulf War. Our unit was a POW Guard unit protecting the outer perimeter of 10 of the 30 cages at our camp. We had a lot of Iraq EPW but the day to day activity's was much the same with no one in any danger of attack. We did have a interception of a scud missal at the first of the war by the Patriot missals. while we were at the apartments in Dhahran Saudi Arabia but we all experience that. So the war is over and during an awards Ceremony These two clowns get a Bronze star... FOR WHAT? Then other awards start being handed out and now I'm floored! Most of these guys HQ, Supply, some PLT SGT spent their time in their tents or going to Bahrain or Dhahran going to the malls while the troops stayed and worked. I started looking at the metals as bogus and non meaningful. I was never so glad to Transfer to another unit I liked a few Years later. took a while to find what I liked.

Response by Charlotte Maxcy made Oct 4 at 2018 11:22 PM

Charlotte Maxcy — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:22:37 -0400

Did William Simon Mericle Jr. receive any Bronze Stars in WWll while serving in the Pacific....Philllppines

Response by COL FrancisTimothy Riley made Nov 13 at 2018 11:21 PM

COL FrancisTimothy Riley — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 23:21:11 -0500

Does The new CAB equal or qualify for a Bronze Star???

Response by 1SG Cj Grisham made Dec 29 at 2018 4:59 PM

1SG Cj Grisham — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 16:59:05 -0500

Thanks for providing the history of this medal. I remember as a young soldier receiving my BSMV and standing with officers and senior enlisted troops getting a BSM and wondering WHAT THE HELL! After some research as I came up through the ranks I became less jaded about it and better understood the difference between the medal and the V device.

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Jan 24 at 2019 6:06 AM

SSG Samuel Kermon — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 06:06:06 -0500

Thank you. Sometimes, like this, a history lesson is needed. I sure learned more.

Response by MAJ Christopher Thompson made Feb 9 at 2019 8:23 PM

MAJ Christopher Thompson — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 20:23:33 -0500

All I can say is awards remain time period and unit dependent. I don't flaunt the multiple BSMs I received prior to retirement, but certainly spent my time "outside the wire". So much so, that my final BDE CDR during my last combat deployment directed me to stop leaving various bases/FOBs after 6 months because of the continuous fire issues, and not being able to replace me for my specific engineering life support/construction skills. No one could do my job, and they were actually fearful that I was going to get hit again. Does that mean a person does not qualify for an award? Once you retire, some of the bitterness subsides.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Mar 17 at 2019 8:28 AM

LTC John Griscom — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 08:28:13 -0400

Several civilians were awarded BSMs for meritorious service during Desert Storm.

Response by SrA Jared Hall made Mar 17 at 2019 3:44 PM

SrA Jared Hall — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 15:44:51 -0400

Knew a couple of officers in my deployed chain of command that never left the berm but somehow “earned” bronze stars. What a disgrace!

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Mar 29 at 2019 12:35 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:35:58 -0400

Did you notice the purple heart that Kerry got was for slipping in the toilet. When a rocket came in.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Mar 29 at 2019 3:00 PM

SGT James Murphy — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 15:00:04 -0400

My Father Got the Bronze Star in the field artillery as an NCO. WWII. Was in Africa, Italy, all the freaking way up to Germany and the Camps! I got the Pictures to Prove it. I'm pretty sure he EARNED that Bronze Star.

Response by CPL Charles Dockendorff made Jul 4 at 2019 10:23 AM

CPL Charles Dockendorff — Thu, 04 Jul 2019 10:23:43 -0400

That's something that I've questioned alot! Medals awarded, and why, are not a mystery. Many times, today, they are awarded for merit and career enhancing reasonsin most cases! In the case of the Bronze Star and ACM they are set up for confusion. They are the only Medals I know of that need clarification of a "V" device to note Valor and/or Heriosm. A Silver Star, and of course, the DSC and MOH are inherently for Valor/Heroism..Period! When you look at he numbers above it seems that a relatively small percentage of of total awards were actually given with "V" device(24%% of the total in Vietnam and in the seven years cited above only about 3% of the total in Iraqi Freedom). I saw figures somewhere in the past that overall since they have distinguished with a "V", it runs about 10% overall. Don't know %'s on the ACM "V" but suspect it is at least the same. So you might ask "so what's the point?"
The point is that most folks don't know this. When I ride down the street and I see a liscense plate with a Bronze Star I don't question what for? I look on the DMV site and there is a Bronze Star "V" device plate available for anyone who has it on their 2014 so I assume it's probably for meritorious service. But most people don't know this(but I'm guessing the person driving the car knows. He should be proud of his Award. My point is why did they do this in the first place so they have to put a seperate "V" for Valor? Because they should have made it an award for Valor in the first place(inherantly)! the same for the ACM. Those who recieve these awards deserve them, with or without the"V"!. The confusion is the way they are set up and why?

Response by Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr made Aug 24 at 2019 4:11 PM

Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 16:11:02 -0400

Very Interesting...

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Sep 27 at 2019 2:17 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 14:17:44 -0400

My Bronze Star for service was handed to me by a Spec 4 as I left the 101st Airborne Division in 1970. :-)

Response by PO2 Dave Michniewicz made Dec 26 at 2019 11:05 AM

PO2 Dave Michniewicz — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 11:05:53 -0500

All right I was not a soldier in the army and I was never boots on ground in any land based combat zone. I was a Damage Controlman (Firefighter) on a carrier in the Persian Gulf, still a combat zone though, back in 94. Now I’ll never be awarded the bronze star, after almost 10 years of service I was honorably discharged back in 01. There are a lot of BS ribbons and medals out there. When I returned home after being deployed I went to see my WW2 army veteran grandfather and wanted to show him all the medals and ribbons I had “earned”. He looked at me and asked if I went over there and solved the whole Middle East crisis by myself because I looked like Audie Murphy with all those medals on my uniform. Now to be fair I only had three rows but the only one I truly earned was a Navy Achievement Medal for my actions during a large shipboard fire while in the Adriatic. I also know the feeling of slight disappointment when I was at my next duty station, and was attached to working in an admin billet where our CO’s office was and watched them put on a show for three admin personnel who were awarded the same medal as I, but they literally received it for stuffing a lot of envelopes that went out to the civilian community. It was mentioned in the citation. I didn’t choose my job for medals. I did my job. My point being, it says the bronze star can be awarded for meritorious service or actions while deployed in a combat zone. Now be offended but it does water down the medal and the true reason it was created, to award it to an admin type or as an end of tour medal. Why not award the army commendation medal for people who have shown meritorious service while serving in a combat zone but not seeing combat. I know that even until I just researched the bronze medal my impression and probably any civilian that has heard of it thinks of our relatives and family and friends who may have been awarded the medal like the greatest generation on up in combat that actually did something to earn it. The people that I do know that have been awarded the medal we’re not sitting around being just meritorious or ending there hitch, they were in combat putting their lives in harms way. Now I have all the respect in the world for all my brothers and sisters that have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere. It wasn’t for me sleeping in tents out in the desert. God bless all of you. I chose the Navy. AC three hot meals but just as dangerous. But this trend of the military of giving ribbons for BS and creating new ones for BS had got to end. If they are earned award them but they have got to stop just giving them to anyone. I know this post was long but I was just trying to show that just because Regs dictate that there really is no difference I when it comes to awarding a medal that some really earned it doesn’t mean and this is solely on the brass, lets just give everybody a medal because we can. Fair Winds and following seas everyone!

Response by SGT Justin Chiang made Jan 12 at 2020 1:37 PM

SGT Justin Chiang — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:37:12 -0500

So, follow-up question: civilians (not contractors) working in deployment zones used to be eligible for BSM citations. Is this still a thing?

Response by PFC Joseph Turchiano made Oct 20 at 2020 6:02 AM

PFC Joseph Turchiano — Tue, 20 Oct 2020 06:02:17 -0400

I think you have to put your life on the line
For your fellow soldiers!

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Feb 20 at 2021 6:38 AM

SGT Lorenzo Nieto — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:38:38 -0500

I served nine months in Vietnam stayed about one month in a army hospital never got a thing for servicing in Vietnam. It bumbed out when I saw what my brother got when he came home from Vietnam, but I just live with it because the guys that didn’t make it back will never know about the medals they got.

Response by SFC Eugene Helstrom made Mar 13 at 2021 9:34 AM

SFC Eugene Helstrom — Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:34:02 -0500

Very informative, thanks for showing all that a small amount of investigation pays off dividends knowledge! Well written!

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 26 at 2021 12:46 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Wed, 26 May 2021 12:46:49 -0400

I got mine for Perfect Attendance in Vietnam 66/67

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Jun 3 at 2021 4:01 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Thu, 03 Jun 2021 16:01:59 -0400

In many respects, at least in SOME units, the BSM is awarded as much for its promotion point value as for service. The down side to that is that (again, in some units) it is issued based solely on the basis of favoritism, and as much NOT issued to deserving service members based upon disfavor.
That comment is based on some discussions with my oldest son who served in Iraq with his Reserve unit, the SAME EXACT year his younger brother was on his second combat tour (Infantry). His comments were very matter-of-fact, and not boo-hoo crap ... just straight-forward discussions of the less fortunate parts of his tour.
That son's Reserve unit (Transportation), when in Iraq, issued the BSM (automatically) to SSG's and above, and a few SGT's, but no SPC's. The ARCOM was issued under the same criteria with AAM's going to SPC and PFC's.
Because my son was computer savvy and also proficient with Microsoft Office, he was detached to work with a Nat'l Guard unit serving with his Reserve unit. His job was to configure loading of all vehicles for resupply to other units, maximizing their loads within safety regs, etc. Mondays thru Fridays was his duty schedule; but knowing the folks in his unit had much less attractive schedules, he voluntarily worked as many of their schedules as he could each weekend, driving trucks that were pre-loaded on Fridays. He knew he had a comparatively "skate" office job and wanted too help those who did not.
As it happened, the NG unit rotated to CONUS about half-way through his unit's 12 month tour, and another NG unit replaced them. The departing unit recommended to them that they keep my son, and at their departure/change of command ceremony, they issued their awards and included my son getting an ARCOM. Sadly, that made a lot of his unit NCO's rather upset.
When his unit was rotating back stateside, at their ceremony, the NCO's got their BSM's, and most everyone else an ARCOM or AAM, the later of which my son who was by then a SGT, was given an AAM; despite VOLUNTARILY driving truck on the weekends - which included events with IED's and firefights. The new NG Unit attended and they too, issued yet another ARCOM to him for his performance.
When his unit rotated back stateside, his fellow NCO's with one exception were displaying their jealousy even though the E-5's had gotten the ARCOM and SSG and above the BSM. Eventually, my son made SSG but had to accept a position outside of PA and join a unit in W. Virginia. After a year, he was able to return to his Transportation unit in PA where he still encountered, not only hostility from most other NCO's and even his former Platoon Leader who was by then, the unit CO. All over two awards from NG units. After another two years of BS, he packed-in his ten years of service and left the Reserves altogether.
I know this may sound like a bunch of bull, but it is what his experience was. Until he got that first ARCOM, he had NO hassles with anyone in his Reserve unit, and the guy's he relieved on weekends were all SPC's like him and a few PFC's. He also noted that not one single SSG or above, EVER went on the convoys, or ever went outside their base perimeter. Not only did just SSG's and above get the BSM, but they were ALL also awarded the CAB while not a single SPC or PFC (who DID drive in convoys and who DID exchange gunfire or experience IED's) received the CAB.
That's the kind of unit I think I'd LOVE to be in because I'd have raised holy hell over the BSM/CAB bull crap.

Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Apr 5 at 2022 8:56 PM

1SG John B. Enlow — Tue, 05 Apr 2022 20:56:56 -0400

Speaking of military awards, which takes precedence in display, Legion of Merit or Bronze Star?

Response by PO3 Edward Riddle made Apr 5 at 2022 10:53 PM

PO3 Edward Riddle — Tue, 05 Apr 2022 22:53:33 -0400

I was put in for the Bronze Star W/V Device in Viet Nam and only got the Navy Commendation W/V Device instead and for that I am pissed. I pretty much saved 3 Boat Crews.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2022 11:53 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 11:53:43 -0400

It seems that lately getting killed in action rates a BSM. I'm not so sure that qualifies, yet nonetheless, it seems to be happening.

I've seen the Btn Col and SgtMaj get themselves BSM's for those times they left the wire going to some other base. The guys that were outside the wire on a daily basis or even took those fools back and forth, got the handshake and pat on the back.
I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing though. Getting the handshake for doing your job is what you expect. That's what you signed up to do. I don't agree with giving guys awards for doing exactly what they were supposed to do. I put my guys in for awards that went above and beyond their job description, but predictably, all they turned out to be were NAMs.

Response by SPC John Reynolds made Jun 18 at 2022 9:29 PM

SPC John Reynolds — Sat, 18 Jun 2022 21:29:40 -0400

It seems that BS medals get handed out like candy *to officers* for doing far less than I did to earn either of the 2 Commendation Medals I received an enlisted 11B in Vietnam. I'm proud of my CIB, too, because I earned it, and it hasn't been cheapened by "medal inflation." Get rid of the attaboy Bronze Star. It diminishes the heroism of those who actually risked their lives by giving favored chair jockeys a way to feel good about themselves.

Response by SGT Robert Urbaniak made Sep 30 at 2023 4:26 PM

SGT Robert Urbaniak — Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:26:00 -0400

I was awarded a Bronze Star with a V device, also a Purple Heart, due to combat action in Vietnam.

Response by PO2 Mark Fraktman made Oct 29 at 2023 2:31 PM

PO2 Mark Fraktman — Sun, 29 Oct 2023 14:31:15 -0400

When I was in high school the Major in charge of the AFJROTC program refused to wear several of the awards he Earned flying fast novers. He said it was because many Colernals and above in the rear had people monitering the radios. As soon as they heard of an area with fighting involving aircraft the officer would head for the airfield where his jet would be waiting for him. Then fly thriugh the area at 30 + thousand feet and claim the awards awards given to the pilots flying at altitudes where they could be in danger of being shot down.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Jan 27 at 2024 1:20 PM

1SG John Millan — Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:20:34 -0500

Should be valor ONLY. Never for service. V should be unnecessary.

Response by Mariah Carey made Feb 25 at 2024 9:04 PM

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