The Case For NCOs As Teachers

2018-08-15T10:40:17-04:00

It should come as no surprise to anyone who has spoken with me or read some of the other pieces that I have had the privilege of posting that education is something that I feel extremely passionate about. In fact, I would go so far as to say that education ranks right up there with my passion for writing, service to my country, and love for the Constitution of the United States and everything that it provides. Why exactly would education rank so high up there in things that I value? Simply put, education is the basic foundation for those other things that I have listed. Without a proper education, one is unable to utilize the written word. Without a proper education, one cannot properly serve in any branch of the military or law enforcement (contrary to popular belief). Lastly, and most importantly, without a proper education, one is unable to understand, abide by, and protect the Constitution of the United States; this fact seems ever more evident by the masses of ignorant young people and their radically unhinged and politically motivated leadership.

I previously wrote a piece that really maligned what has so far been my experience at a university. I could go on to elaborate even further about the shortfalls of the college education provided in this country, possibly for eternity, but I would rather take aim at a different aspect of our education system. As previously stated, young people show up ill-prepared for what they should be expected to do once they arrive at college. Why is this? Well, we can point fingers at government regulations (ie “No Child Left Behind”), or ‘teaching to tests’, or funding, and, in all honesty, any one of these could very well be accurately blamed for one negative aspect of our system or another. What about just the people teaching our kids?

We hear all the time about the professors at universities but it is very seldom that we look at the people at the elementary, middle, and high school levels – unless there happens to be a scandal involving sexual misconduct (which is an issue of a whole other kind) – but take a moment to think about these people.

I am going to speak in generalities. Young people these days have little to no discipline, no work ethic, believe that they should receive unearned benefits and or rewards, and seem to have the worst time regulating their emotions (so much so that “trigger warnings” have become common practice in many places). Who can the education system turn to in order to make drastic improvements to these circumstances? Why, the last time that I had an issue with any of these things was prior to my experience in basic training!

Noncommissioned officers, not just drill sergeants, are specially adapted to developing functional and well-adapted youth that are prepared to take on the difficulties associated with the real world. Day in and day out, NCOs across the military are constantly dealing with young men and women ranging in ages starting at 17; who is to say that these professionals could not adapt to perform the same miracles with young people only slightly younger? Counseling, personal and professional development, and teaching (training) are all tools that any NCO worth their salt has at their disposal. In addition, NCOs promote discipline in various ways, understand the need for proper levels of encouragement, and instill values into those under their charge. Are these not the exact qualities that we wish for our young people?

Everyone has heard the saying “those who cannot do teach”. The fact is that this has been the case for far too long. When you have a generation of people who cannot do anything, teaching kids who will in turn not be able to do anything, you end up with a large portion of a generation essentially crippled. We can see this right now. A generation of young adults looking for handouts, free stuff, and government assistance because they have been taught, for ages, by people who could barely do anything for themselves (or at least were so inept that they could do almost nothing of novel value). We have people going into disciplines like “gender studies” in which lies a future of absolutely nothing. Can anyone please tell me exactly what someone with a PhD in gender studies does for society besides teach other people who are going for a degree in that area? Of course you can’t because there is nothing. Perhaps work in some obscure fashion for the ACLU, maybe.

I believe that it is high time that people who can do, and can do many different things, teach those who we expect to do many different things. If we want young people to take up valuable professions, to be pushed towards doing things of value to themselves and society, they must first be provided with the structure that supports them to do so. Noncommissioned officers are often described as being the “backbone” of the military service (or at least in the Army they are). Could these professionals become the kind of “backbone” structure for the education system that we need? I believe so.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Aug 15 at 2018 10:47 AM

2018-08-15T10:47:40-04:00

NCOs or officers. Want to save our country? Become a teacher.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 15 at 2018 10:54 AM

2018-08-15T10:54:54-04:00

Excellent share brother.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2018 10:55 AM

2018-08-15T10:55:35-04:00

As a Ph.D educator, I agree NCO’s and Officers can make excellent educators. As to the rest of what you were speaking about, I will go one step further. Along with the current educators I place nearly all the responsibilities on the parents that do not hold the education system they pay for accountable. Vigilance in your child’s education is your (the parents) responsibility. IMHO...

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Aug 15 at 2018 11:06 AM

2018-08-15T11:06:08-04:00

I know several people that have done that. Two in our VFW post.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Aug 15 at 2018 11:06 AM

2018-08-15T11:06:35-04:00

re: "NCOs across the military are constantly dealing with young men and women ranging in ages starting at 17; who is to say that these professionals could not adapt to perform the same miracles with young people only slightly younger? Counseling, personal and professional development, and teaching (training) are all tools that any NCO worth their salt has at their disposal. In addition, NCOs promote discipline in various ways, understand the need for proper levels of encouragement, and instill values into those under their charge. Are these not the exact qualities that we wish for our young people?"

I always said that my Drill Sergeants were some of the best teachers I ever had. I wonder how my formal education would have been different if more NCO's had been in my classrooms. Thanks for writing this.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Aug 15 at 2018 11:17 AM

2018-08-15T11:17:49-04:00

I don't know if NCOs can fix the education system. While I don't disagree with the premise of your proposal, there are other things that make it impractical to expect results. Every positive movement for education that has been advanced in the last 60 years has been opposed by teachers unions. Teacher competency testing: opposed, charter schools: opposed, the ability to fire underperforming teachers: opposed, the list goes on. Add to that, parents who are unengaged but still refuse to accept that little Billy is struggling, and you have a system that is fundamentally broken. We spend more on education than any country in the world and have middle of the road outcomes. When you get a teacher that shines, they quickly become marginalized in their school. This is something that I believe would hinder even the most capable NCO.

To exemplify the difficulty facing good teachers, let's look at Jaime Escalante. Jaime Escalante was the head of the math department at Garfield High School in east Los Angeles. He cultivated excellence in his students in the 1980s. In the late 80s, 1/4 of all Hispanics in the country who passed the AP Calculus exam came from his program. They even made the movie Stand and Deliver about his achievement in a poorer community. Did Mr. Escalante's culture of excellence inspire others to follow suit? Nope, the teacher's union convinced the faculty at Garfield to oust him from his chair of the math department.

If you're interested there's a great video series called School Inc.
https://youtu.be/QrDfCy5Q9wI

School Inc. Episode 1: The Price of Excellence - Full Video

With the great inventions of the Industrial Revolution in the 17th century, productivity rose dramatically -- and the innovations behind it spread like wildf...

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Aug 15 at 2018 12:02 PM

2018-08-15T12:02:16-04:00

SGT Joseph Gunderson I agree Joseph. I like your thought of no child left behind. I am a retired teacher and I know exactly what you are talking about. Thank you for such a fine article.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 15 at 2018 12:04 PM

2018-08-15T12:04:54-04:00

A good leader is a teacher. You want things done a certain way? Teach your subordinates. And, a good teacher is a leader. As to your final question: "Could these professionals become the kind of 'backbone' structure for the education system we need?" No. They'd never make it, not in America's schools and colleges. Indoctrination has replaced education there and most of us who serve/served are not welcome among them.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Aug 15 at 2018 12:30 PM

2018-08-15T12:30:30-04:00

"Everyone has heard the saying 'those who cannot do teach'. The fact is that this has been the case for far too long."

Assumption, stated as fact.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Aug 15 at 2018 1:09 PM

2018-08-15T13:09:13-04:00

Agree 100%, but make sure to look at requirements to get a teaching certificate where you want to teach. May need to take a few courses to qualify and might as well get that out of the way while still on AD.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2018 1:33 PM

2018-08-15T13:33:56-04:00

My daugter-in-law and niece teach elementary and high school respectively. After listening to them I’d rather deploy for a year than to teach four weeks in a public school. Maybe if you had a touchy-feely MOS/Rating/AFSC but I think most military folks from the pointy end of the spear would have a hard time not getting fired in the first month. But hey, maybe I’m just a jerk.

Response by SFC Francisco Roman made Aug 15 at 2018 3:39 PM

2018-08-15T15:39:55-04:00

As a NCO in the military it is our responsibility to teach and to take time to learn as well. That's the way I learned to get to where I have gotten. The younger generation have a lot to offer and at the same time they have a lot to learn.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 15 at 2018 5:53 PM

2018-08-15T17:53:27-04:00

NCOs not only teach technical and tactical skills, but they should also teach by setting the examples to emulate. It should be a mixture of professional and personal growth.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 15 at 2018 10:08 PM

2018-08-15T22:08:59-04:00

Drive on Joe!

Response by MSgt Dale Johnson made Aug 16 at 2018 12:20 PM

2018-08-16T12:20:43-04:00

I could not teach in todays environment. I worked for a school district repairing computers for 20 years after I retired, so I was able to see how these kids act on a daily basis. In general many are rude, insolent and lack respect.

I feel this downward spiral started when parents stopped disciplining kids, thank you Dr Spock. They stopped being parents and started learning to be friends with their kids. Add in the whole "Everyone gets a trophy because I don't want little Jimmy to feel left out," attitude and we set up a whole generation that does not know what it is like deal with disappointment. So now there are spoiled parents who do not understand discipline, raising kids who cant deal with being told No and expect to be rewarded just because they show up.

Obviously this does not describe everyone but I think it describes way toooo many. I have grave concerns for future generations in this country.

Response by SSG Harry Outcalt made Aug 16 at 2018 2:30 PM

2018-08-16T14:30:14-04:00

It the teaching environment was more military oriented then it would be possible, if not then not much chance ... I had an opportunity to spend some time at a military academy ,observing giving advice and providing support to cadets as young as 7 on up to high school and compared to public school it was much like night n day , we all see this difference in environment daily since we ourselves have been exposed upon entering military service the discipline of the young and attitude much different...

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Aug 16 at 2018 2:41 PM

2018-08-16T14:41:26-04:00

NCO's are teachers... not to be the d@ckhead LT, but maybe when talking about teaching and standards they should find an airman without a No Shave Chit... just saying...

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 17 at 2018 5:01 PM

2018-08-17T17:01:47-04:00

I forgot this perspective. Teach them to become good future leaders. They should be prepared when the torch is passed to them.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Aug 18 at 2018 6:47 AM

2018-08-18T06:47:57-04:00

NCOs are teachers and experts in their fields.
I dare say that if they received specific training in a focused subject area - say Math (only, not 4 years of college) - then they would be excellent at that field also.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Aug 19 at 2018 3:33 PM

2018-08-19T15:33:35-04:00

My take , 90% of NCOs and 50% officers are teachers. But the troop you use for VIPs ,make the best teachers

Response by SFC William "Bill" Moore made Aug 20 at 2018 9:40 AM

2018-08-20T09:40:36-04:00

This is one of the best articles I have read on the subject of education and NCO's, albeit, short. Recently, I have been exploring the option of leaving My Gov. Job and opting for a teaching position that would put me closer to home. The major stumbling block is the requirements. I have a degree, but noting in the education field. I live in WV, so if anyone has made the transition from NCO to Teacher there, I am open for advice!

Response by SFC Stephen King made Aug 20 at 2018 5:14 PM

2018-08-20T17:14:39-04:00

Purpose, Motivation and Direction= Teacher

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Aug 22 at 2018 8:28 AM

2018-08-22T08:28:27-04:00

As a Veteran/Substitute Teacher, I had to "slow my roll" because my pace was too fast for civilians, and it still is.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 22 at 2018 9:40 AM

2018-08-22T09:40:38-04:00

Uh what? What does Sergeant Steiner say to the FNG in "Cross of Iron"? "Keep yours eye on me and this foul smelling one here or you'll be wearing boots up your ass for a long time."

Response by CPT Jim Kotva made Aug 27 at 2018 7:50 AM

2018-08-27T07:50:19-04:00

I just finished HOW SCHOOLS WORK by Arne Duncan excellent book I highly recommend reading this book. He tells it all from how the school system needs to be revamped BUT that cost money to more money needing to go to inner city schools do to most of these children are at strike two before they get up to bat. Teachers leaving do to stagnant wages. How president Bush had a good idea with no child left behind but it had its flaws that no one wanted to fix again do to money and political suicide.

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Sep 8 at 2018 12:58 AM

2018-09-08T00:58:56-04:00

Sgt Gunderson has got it right, NCO's have been training the untrained for years. The process is simple and tailored to the Pvt who knows nearly nothing so we first explain what we are going to do, we then demonstrate, and the student attempts the task at hand aided by the instructor when the student completes the task he then takes the instructor through the task as if he was the instructor. The process is simple and it works. The real trial is identifying deficiencies in your students any written exercise will point out missing punctuation, poor sentence structure and spellings errors. figuring out gaps of knowledge takes a real in depth look at where they really are. A poor education doesn't mean stupid by any measure, it does mean being handicapped by that, as you aren't equipped to compete. It's hard to be a good leader when you can't write a coherent after action report. As far as Sgt Gunderson's comment on gender studies, he's right and it isn't just gender studies there are a lot of degrees that have little or no employment value and when you are borrowing money to go to College you should consider your self obligated to be employable at graduation. Fun degrees should be pursued on your dime not some one else's.

Response by PO1 Darrell Sanders made Sep 14 at 2018 3:37 PM

2018-09-14T15:37:35-04:00

I was an E-4 (CPL. 0331) in the Marine Corps and an E-6 (DS1) in the Navy. I agree with all that's been said. In the Navy my last 5 years was as a Master Training Specialist and taught at CSTSC Mare Island Vallejo Ca. I taught the peripheral portion of the An/UYK-7 Pipeline. You want to reach young people. 70% will be confidence and credibility. Most NCO's have confidence and right off the bat should have credibility. Being a subject matter expert definitely helps.

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Sep 15 at 2018 6:49 PM

2018-09-15T18:49:03-04:00

Well worded response to the naysayers.The NCO corps is well positioned to teach students about sacrifice, trust, and love for this country and its constitution.

Response by Sgt Roy Hale made Sep 23 at 2018 12:41 AM

2018-09-23T00:41:35-04:00

I come from the Marine Corps, and I’m sure it is no different in the other services, but you learn every promotion makes you responsible to teach those below you. As a Corporal and then Sergeant we were assigned courses to teach those not only below us, but our peers as well. If then you also go to NCO and then SNCO Academies, you learn to lead and teach. When I left the Military I went into Emergency Medical Services, There was a College Instructor who had a thought of creating an EMS Academy, thereby adding a layer of Professionalism to the industry. He heard of my background, I helped create, then teach the profession, but I learned my teaching and leading skills as an NCO.

Response by SGT Dan Wirtz made Sep 25 at 2018 8:25 PM

2018-09-25T20:25:05-04:00

As a Former NCO and a High School and College Chemistry and Physics Teacher for the past 20 years I resemble this remark. I think the saying goes, 'Those who cannot do, Teach. Those who cannot teach, teach phys- ed.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Oct 2 at 2018 10:30 AM

2018-10-02T10:30:59-04:00

I agree with you sir, on almost every point. There is however a growing group of people who have a disability that keeps them from learning like the other 99%
There is Dyslexia, Autism, and various shades of both that turn curious intelligent children into sullen angry adults if they don't get the help that they need and this help is not in your average teaching syllabus.
Even sadder, most of their problems aren't touched by those who become special needs teachers, so its going to take an entirely new sort of training to handle these kids as well!

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Oct 4 at 2018 9:44 AM

2018-10-04T09:44:24-04:00

It is up to the parents to change their own expectations of what they want their child's school to accomplish with their child. Schools are under an incredibly unrealistic pressure to graduate all students regardless of ability; to produce an unrealistic rate of college acceptance showing that 95% of their students do go on to college. Parents complain excessively that their child is not being treated fairly, that their child's grade is not fair and so on. What teachers and schools can do has become limited. Each elementary class of about 20-30 kids has at least 5 individual education plans(IEPs). Work in the classroom is rarely done independently.

Everything is so over regulated. The result is less tools for teachers to use to mold students into productive citizens. You're asking them to be the backbone of things that are largely out of their control. Passion and professionalism of teachers can only go so far under conditions where they are not in charge. Parents must change their belief system.

You can't expect teachers to be the backbone of the education system when the pay for teachers is low, budgets are underfunded and parents mistrust and just don't support teachers and the school's disciplinary policies. Schools are graduating kids regardless of merit and test result or behavior. Teachers have very little control over any of this.

As an institution, the military is still the most trusted. Not schools. So comparing schools to military is not effective.

Having fond memories of the rightness of you own education back in the day is not productive to changing a parent's current view of today's school system. Today's parents are people who grew up with technology -are comfortable with technology in every aspect of their life, the are now parents of grade school age students. Today's high school students have known technology all their life. Technology in the classroom("smart boards," chrome books, and using cell phones to do game like test reviews) has changed -not only how subjects are taught - it has completely changed student behavior as well. You can't look back to the good old euphoric days as a way to improve education. Today's parent has to make a conscious decision to support and prioritize teachers.

Those are my thoughts.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Oct 5 at 2018 10:29 AM

2018-10-05T10:29:02-04:00

My unmet friend, we SHOULD be the backbone, and let me explain why! I raised my daughters, pushed them to learn, nudged them to keep learning, and value themselves and figure out where they wanted to go in life. We had full time jobs, but we always tried to work different shifts so that one of us was always home for them during the decade that they really needed us. We had that option... so many now, don't have that option.

Every generation changes. In ours, two parents were normal, as was homework help at night, and at least one parent who was there to see the kids off to school before heading to work themselves. That was our version of normal. We may not have understood New Math, but history, English, and science we could and did spend ours working on, until we saw that flash of "OHHHHH!!" in their eyes when it all came together for them. It was moments like that... tiny, here and there moments, that made me feel like I was doing something right.

My daughter though, is different. She has a circle of friends, both male and female, who are single parents. They struggle to keep food on the table, a roof over their heads, and often, attention to what a child is learning, is pushed to the side, when an extra shift at work is available, because there's always a larger pair of shoes coming up, or a few more pairs of jeans without the holes in the knees.

I was shocked to realize that not one... NOT ONE of my grandson's ten best friends, have two parent households, and only half those parents could even name one of the skills that their kids had been working on that week. Its not from a lack of trying, its from a lack of time, and a lack of help.... I believe you're right, that its time we step up and fill the vacancy for these kids.

I may be a grouchy old Marine, but I can still find my way around a textbook, so I'm thinking, where do I sign up? Maybe we could talk with the schools in our areas... find out how to do this, or find the kids who need us most... Quasi grandparents, if you will, you have an hour here and there to help a confused kid thru the lesson plan for the week...

NCOS yes... but more importantly, people who know how important it is to give a kid who has no sense of self worth or accomplishment, the knowledge that they are amazing, and I'd be delighted to be a part of something like that, for more than just my own grandson.

Response by CPT Earl George made Oct 7 at 2018 5:27 PM

2018-10-07T17:27:22-04:00

I'm glad I'm old school.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2018 10:49 AM

2018-10-12T10:49:57-04:00

I couldn't agree more with your article SGT. I'm still just a lowly pv2 in the Oklahoma National Guard but the NCO's over me have taught me more than I could ever imagine.

Response by Diane Frazier made Oct 16 at 2018 5:53 PM

2018-10-16T17:53:18-04:00

lol you sound like a very frustrated individual and I would Professionally suggest that you seek professional counseling for your deep seeded issues. It stems further than just a comment regarding education. You either seem to be particularly speaking of someone whom intimidates you, or a person of which you have ill feelings for. Maybe you simply have resentment towards your own public education. Either way seeking the professionals would be best.

Just my opinion, as a Professional Counselor and Teacher.
PS. I would be more than happy to provide some colleagues names and numbers for you in your area.

Response by SGT Walter Lester made Oct 17 at 2018 10:13 AM

2018-10-17T10:13:10-04:00

You couldn't have said it better SGT Gunderson! A good education is very much lacking in our teens now days. That's what is wrong with our country now. The teachers have their hands tied now and have to teach what the politicians want them to. We need to get them back to basic education so they can learn what they need to succeed and grow.

Response by CPO Kirk Towner made Nov 1 at 2018 4:18 PM

2018-11-01T16:18:20-04:00

They are the back bone in all the military services, even the Coast Guard!

Response by PO1 Robert George made Nov 17 at 2018 10:12 PM

2018-11-17T22:12:16-05:00

I made it a point to stay in one place while my three youngest went thru the local school system(I'd already retired from Navy). Many times they ended up with the same teachers as they passed thru the grade levels(They got to know me real well!) Parent/teacher conferences got to be interesting. Teachers would comment about how well they wrote and spelled and did math. They would get the "OH my God" look on their faces after I stated I made them learn to spell, write coherent sentences, and do math correctly. "We don't worry about spelling or grammar and we want them to learn the 'New Math' way." I told them I do and that my kids are going to school to get an education not a participation award(that didn't go over well, either!). When they argued with me about it I just told them, "My kids, my house, my rules". Found some good teachers along the way who weren't allowed to be the good teachers they could have been.

Told my kids from the beginning, "Your job is to learn, get good grades and contribute to the school experience. My job is to take care of the rest." Did not want my kids to miss out on any opportunities.

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Nov 22 at 2018 2:39 PM

2018-11-22T14:39:53-05:00

I couldn't agree more. However I have also wondered about the impact of providing counseling to children for every adverse event in their young lives. It seems that we have gotten to the point that they no longer can deal with adversity (hence the increase in snowflake behavior or tantrum like behavior. I don't know if any studies have been conducted it is just a personal observation. I would also tend to agree that teachers good or bad lack the freedom to employ discipline
because the administration as a whole is afraid of lawsuits which further complicates things.

Response by Nicole Thomas made Nov 24 at 2018 12:15 AM

2018-11-24T00:15:30-05:00

A complete overhaul is needed on the conscious level. And that won't happen until TV, RADIO, BROADCASTING on every level ceases to use subliminal messaging.

Response by MAJ Mark N. made Dec 13 at 2018 2:06 PM

2018-12-13T14:06:34-05:00

YES!

Response by TSgt Mike Rumage made Dec 20 at 2018 6:22 PM

2018-12-20T18:22:08-05:00

When I became an Instructor, one of the first things I was taught was the difference between "teaching" and "Instructing". And there is a big difference. If anyone believes they are going to change the world through teaching, first you should think about who actually needs the teaching. How many people believe a first grader can't live without a smartphone? That would probably be a very good place to begin your teaching. Be prepared for just a little bit of backlash about that, though. I have worked alongside other NCOs and you already knew this but I am going to say it again--Not everyone is a good teacher or instructor. My family tree has a lot of teachers and instructors in it and I am grateful to have had good teachers and good instructors. Maybe the question should be:
does being an NCO make for a solid base to build upon to become a teacher/instructor.

Response by SrA Shawn Leggitt made Dec 30 at 2018 10:58 PM

2018-12-30T22:58:11-05:00

I find that it is Difficult here in Texas to even get in to teach. Most Districts Require a minimum of a Masters Degree. I only have a Bachelors so I am currently pursuing my Masters in History Education.

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Jan 5 at 2019 11:24 AM

2019-01-05T11:24:37-05:00

Posting to FB this is very well said

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2019 2:29 PM

2019-02-01T14:29:18-05:00

While I cannot speak "as a middle school teacher" (PA spokesperson stuff), I'm a middle school teacher and reservist.

Please, please, PLEASE get involved. Teacher (Troops-to-Teachers), substitute, coach, anything.
Yes, I hear some of you, "we're not welcome in academia" or "we get the hard kids". That's true in many places. But all it takes is ONE place where that's not the reality, and you impact hundreds of kids, hundreds of citizens, hundreds of futures. I don't have "the bad kids", and I'm very much welcome in academia....in social studies even! History, government, economics, religion, geography, politics, jurisprudence, wars, etc. is what I put into teaching. Find a place that'll use you.

I didn't major in education, but in history. So, as a historian, I can pass on a specific set of education and skills. Find your niche, and it gets harder to move you to "just THOSE kids" because they need you everywhere.

And in order to be welcome in academia, we have to find a way to change academia. It's not too far gone (ok, maybe in some places), but we've got to establish a beachhead somewhere.
The school I work at had 5 veterans and a reservist (yours truly). 3 of the vets were the janitors/snack-shack managers (oh yeah, kids like geedunk). The other 3 of us teach social studies. And here in South Carolina, male teachers are preferred (there just aren't enough of us); military/prior military are also preferred (life experience vs wet-behind-the-ears educator).

Find the place to serve and touch those future citizens. It's just another front in the battle for their hearts and their minds.

Response by Capt Terry Fillmore made Feb 22 at 2019 11:03 PM

2019-02-22T23:03:53-05:00

NCO's and Officers who have the desire to teach need to "bite the bullet" and get their teaching degree. You will make an impact, even if it doesn't seem so at the time. I had been out of the active duty military for 10 years when an elementary school teacher encouraged me to get my teaching degree. I had my Bachelor's Degree in Management, so I was able to get a Master of Arts in Teaching in 1.5 years. For 18 years I taught in the neediest middle school and high school in my county. The students were very poor for the most part (over 80% free and reduced lunch). Having been an nco and an officer in the Marines made me uniquely qualified to teach these students. Many of them were undisciplined, and they did not grow up learning new words or numbers in their households. I taught mathematics, and I didn't worry about being politically correct. I found over time that if you could produce results, the school leadership would leave you alone and let you do your job. Classrooms that work must have teachers who know how to instill discipline in their students. I was tough on the students. I told them that once they crossed from the hall to the classroom, they needed to "sit down and shut up". I did not allow them to put their heads on their desks. If they were disruptive in class, they were kicked out. They may have been sent back to the classroom later, but the student was better behaved when he/she came back. I began teaching when class began on the first day, and I didn't stop until the end of the last day of school. When I began teaching, our middle school was brand new, and the students were split off from the lowest academic school in the district. We remained the lowest scoring school on the state test for the next few years, because it takes time to make a real impact on students. IT'S WORK! By my tenth year we were the top middle school in the county in math. I transferred to the brand new high school with my students, and they remained #1 in math at the high school. I taught the same students for four years, and when they graduated, the salutatorian ended by saying, "As Mr. Fillmore says, 'If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.'" I am retired now, but I see students who know me at Walmart, BiLo, and Lowes. I don't always remember them, but they always remember the impact my class had on them. Some are in the newspaper for armed robbery or murder, or drugs, but I always remembered them as the ones who were constantly in trouble for something. You'll probably never reach all of the students, but you will reach some, and that's what counts. Also, remember that you can also reach the students by coaching. I coached cross country and distance running when I taught, and some of the students went on to run in college. I still teach math 7 hours/week at a Technical College because I enjoy teaching, and I know that the students are being impacted, whether I know it or not.

Response by SMSgt Roy Dowdy made Feb 27 at 2019 10:29 PM

2019-02-27T22:29:24-05:00

Bravo! Well written and addresses a great deal of what exactly is wrong with today's primary and secondary education. When I instructed at the undergrad level or substituted at the high school level I was repeatedly told that I couldn't grade to actual standard, "every student must feel they can proceed!" This is a severe indictment of our education system today!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2019 8:00 AM

2019-03-05T08:00:03-05:00

WHAT AN EXCELLENT NARRATIVE on why NCOs make great educators! There are too many teachers and professors, who have the academic degrees required for a specific course or subject matter, but many don't have the discipline and drive that an NCO or Officer who is either in the military or a veteran from the military... In my view, there are too many in the advanced collegiate education environment who have never been in the military, and who get more out of simply lecturing and being an individual who is caught up in his or her own power grab, so-to-speak and young people are easily driven to follow, not necessarily lead. I think this is especially true in the Liberal Arts field where those teaching are off in their own myopic world and want their students to subscribe to their way of worldly understanding... I don't believe that this holds true for the sciences, however...I may be off base a bit, but I don't think too far.

I especially liked your paragraph, which leads off with "Those who cannot do, Teach". I went to a Liberal Arts college right out of high school and after a semester, I found it difficult just to attend classes... Some of what was taught, I thought I probably would never use... Half-way through the 2nd semester... I pulled the plug on that educational path, took the tests for all the military branches, scored reasonably equal across the board and ultimately joined the USAF! I have always thought more technically than liberal arts and so the career path I undertook to become an airborne navigation systems repairman was challenging, had purpose and kept me in the forefront of technology. The military regimen taught me the strength of discipline, drive, purpose, camaraderie, and much, much more.

During my enlistment, I married, and decided to leave the USAF and raise a family... I entered Northeastern University to commence my first academic degree, all the while escalating the ladder of success. After achieving an Associate Degree in Electronic Engineering Technology, I adjusted my educational plan and migrated over to a more managerial curriculum for Baccalaureate degree as my position and responsibilities continued to move up that ladder of success. My family had grown from just my wife and I, to a family of seven. My military training gave me the drive, knowledge, perseverance and leadership qualities to complete my college education...

After a great career with high technology companies like Raytheon, GTE Sylvania, Motorola and others, I can honestly tell you that it was my military training by United States Air Force NCOs and Officers, who most guided my education direction and allowed me to succeed... One cannot generally find that in our colleges and university today, at least in my opinion... I am retired now, but still active, Volunteering as a Commander of DAV Chapter #90, Norwood, MA, and as a credentialed research assistant within the Veterans Administration's Research area on the Million Veteran Program at the Boston Veterans Healthcare System at the West Roxbury VA Hospital. I do other things as well, but I owe it all to my USAF career.

Response by CMDCM Rodney Bell made Mar 8 at 2019 9:02 AM

2019-03-08T09:02:26-05:00

Well said.

Response by SGT Daniel Myers made Mar 8 at 2019 4:38 PM

2019-03-08T16:38:34-05:00

As a now Psy.D psychologysist, and minister, I'll go towards the elephant in the room and declare the "G" word. I was just finishing up school when they decided to throw God out of our schools. I'll admit I wasn't a big fan back then, but it taught me things to prepare for my future: i.e.: how to treat my fellow man, how to treat ladies, how to be kind, how to be of good moral character, etc. Unfortunately, my parents were no example of these traits at all. My grandparents however were and it was after their lifestyle I modeled my own, their work ethic, American pride, sense of ownership, responsibility, accountability and intestinal fortitude.

I was at a school that graduated a black kid who couldn't even read! That developed legislation nationwide for minimums for education before gaduation. I can't tell you how sorry I felt for that young man that no one took an interest in him. I also wondered though how much of it may have been his fault and how much the teachers may have shared.

Corporal punishment was a well established norm in my day and if you got it at school, you got it again at home just for getting it at school! So, you either learned not to get in trouble or you developed a leathery behind. Kids have no fear today because no one punishes them for anything.

There's the: "I'm gonna call the welfare on you", the child beats the parent up, or there have been cases where the child has shot and killed the parent. That's the kind of society we live in now, a godless, murderous society that no longer values human life.

I've proposed this on many an ocassion and my opinion still hasn't changed. Upon graduation from high school, any type of high school, with absolutely NO DEFERMENTS ALLOWED BY ANYONE, unless you're mentally or physically challenged, every student, male and female alike, should have to report to the service of their choice for a minimum of two years where they will stay untill they complete their two year program, no getting out for any reason. You will spend it in the brig if necessary but it will be a two year program nonetheless. FAILURE IS NOT AN OPINION!!!!

You will learn many new things: team work, responsibility, how to get out of bed at a decent hour of the morning, make your bed, not rely on your mama's, accountability, you will learn new terms and phrases - my personal favorite being EMBRACE THE SUCK.

It will take you awhile to learn what that means but I have confidence in you as you're our future! The men and women of our armed forces will take the piece of sh*t, maggot head, fa^^ot you are now and transform you into an ultra smart, lean, killing machine able to think on your feet quickly, adapt, overcome, improvise any situation and never know the word defeat!

After your two years of fun and adventure are over then you can decide your future! Continue in the military in a chosen career field and have the military pay for college and maybe even a pension one day, or join your thug, criminal buddies on the streets and get capped when you arrive home for your separation money Uncle Sam just gave you cause some lover needs drug money and you just looked phat.

Response by SGT Adam Winebarger made Mar 18 at 2019 8:35 PM

2019-03-18T20:35:26-04:00

One of my DS’s hit his 20 shortly after basic training ended for me. He got out and became a kindergarten teacher. As a private, I was both shocked and horrified by that. As an NCO, and now veteran, I realized that they’re basically the same job.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Mar 22 at 2019 6:18 PM

2019-03-22T18:18:00-04:00

After I retired I became a high school teacher. I had to "jump thru the hoops" to get a teaching license and endorsements. After planning and conducting military training for 24 years, doing the same in high school was a breeze. Except for the occasional misfit, Officers, WOs, and NCOs are experienced trainers and already good teachers.

BUT the big, big, really big, difference is your students. You don't have a room full of warriors who pay attention because they know there lives may depend on it. You have a room full of teenagers with an attitude: entitled, disrespectful, undisciplined, lazy, etc. who's whole goal is to get a B grade with as little effort as possible, or to not get by at all. (Yes, of course, there are those students who want to put forth the effort to get an A grade, but they are not the problem.) Therefor, the question is, can you adapt to your new audience?

I found that if I joked and teased with them, laughed with them, used limited sarcasm appropriately, and allowed them to tease back, I won them over and had excellent control of the class. The other thing that really helped me when a student got out of control was to remind myself that that student was acting like me when I was 15 or 16. In fact, most of my students, when they acted out, never got as bad as I was at times.

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Mar 24 at 2019 8:07 PM

2019-03-24T20:07:13-04:00

There are many ways to become a self supporting citizen. A plumber, truck driver, etc. does not have to have a PHD to make it in this world. What he/she need is RESPONSIBILITY. All of us learned that in the military. It makes no difference what your rank is. Kids now days are not responsible for anything ( unless the parents say so). Teachers can only do so much. Discipline is NOT there job.
I had a friend tell me her dad an o-6 had become a teacher. She pitted the students. After reading some poetry he asked the class what they thought. A dude in the back said ( I think it sucks). Rather than get upset the Colonel politely ask the student to come to the front of the class and explain why!! And that is why he was a Colonel!!!

Response by CPT Keith Whitter made Mar 26 at 2019 11:02 AM

2019-03-26T11:02:49-04:00

This is an excellent objective. Our education situation in this country is in real need of help, and who better to supply that help than efficient and proficient NCO's.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Apr 26 at 2019 9:56 AM

2019-04-26T09:56:33-04:00

I fully agree with you. While an Instructor at the 7th Army NCO Academy our motto was, "If the Student fails to learn, the Instructor failed to teach". It worked well for us and we were able to Graduate Hundreds of fine NCO's that I am sure brought great Credit of both their Units and the US Army.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Apr 27 at 2019 11:10 PM

2019-04-27T23:10:19-04:00

My wife and I held our school accountable, and removed our youngest from the public schools system and home schooled him. We were told he would never be socialized and would never make it in the real world. Well folks, I am here to tell how wrong they are; he scored high on the ACT, high on the ASVAB, and took Distinguished Honor Graduate at his AIT at Ft Eustis for Black Hawk repair school. As an former instructor for a Bachelorate program in Nursing, we need more Officers and NCO's teaching these snowflakes, they are way to sensitive, and have no life skills, thanks to mom and dad, and our pubic education system; they can't even think their way out of a paper bag.

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Apr 28 at 2019 11:33 AM

2019-04-28T11:33:42-04:00

That is a big part of the NCO’s job

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made May 16 at 2019 3:43 AM

2019-05-16T03:43:25-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner…I will take some exceptions here with the Sargent..College is not job training it's an education. I'm a firm believer in the Oxford system and it was used bad in 1967 when I had done my Military Service and went to College. To become a Teacher you need the fifth year which is the job training. Teacher like Police are really not good civilian job choices for what are being called Maneuver Troops, especial if they have served tours(s) in their MOS, in the Sand Box. For those in service and support MOS's who being a soldier means you don't have to decide what to wear to work everyday and are part of the 40% of the Army that doesn't deploy the above two caress might be OK for post military service…The educational system don't like Combat soldiers.I remember going for an interview for a teach job in the public school. The interview was conducted by a ranking administer from the non teaching educators, the ones who know what kids want. Asked me at the end, did you kill people in Vietnam, of course I did, I was an Infantry soldier. His replay I can't hire you, I won't put a killer in the classroom with impressionable students. End of interview.

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made May 19 at 2019 1:37 PM

2019-05-19T13:37:42-04:00

OK, I am going to disagree to a point. Yes, young people today are ill equipped to take on life's responsibilities. And yes, a good NCO is an educator/trainer. When I went through NCO School teaching was a big part of our training. However there is no way an NCO can take on ALL the responsibility for educating everyone under his charge. He will have a tough enough time teaching them the things required to do their job and/or survive in combat. He can however act as a facilitator, arranging for classes and training for those who do want to improve. The Corps had something like correspondence courses (I forget what they were called) even back when I was in. Make sure they know they can take these courses, and when they do encourage them to finish the courses they sign up for. And find someone they can go to (you in most cases) for advice or help so they are not left to flounder when they don't understand. Also maybe arrange times when those taking the same courses can get together, compare notes and study. That's just one example of what I mean by being a facilitator. Delegate, then use your time to teach those things you must very well.

And yes, a good NCO can teach many of life's lessons their parents should have taught them while teaching other subjects. But not if he's trying to teach 12 years of primary education to an entire squad, all the while performing his supervisory duties. And don't forget, NCO's today are from that same generation. My guess is they are struggling to stay afloat themselves. They need the support and facilitation of staff and officers. The military should operate as a unit in all things and all ways. That's how individuals are trained to act on their own when necessary. A man will take risks for comrades who've shared in personal growth. Units where this kind of leadership and camaraderie are lacking do not fare as well, even in peace time. We called it being tight, and if a unit wasn't the members tended to be victimized by others who were.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 20 at 2019 8:48 PM

2019-05-20T20:48:34-04:00

As a former NCO I was given the task at fort Carson to teach supply personnel how to pass their proficiency test. Not to get 156 out of 160 like me. Just 100. I was paid 5 USD a hour for 4 hours a week in the evening. For the solders it was free. The pol, warehouse guys were having a hard time. I prepared practice tests for which I was paid for as well. I had taken 6 of these tests and basically new what was coming. The 76Y's by and large did well. Just like Sgt Bilko. Well time to take the test. 4 hours to take the test. Multiple choice. First go through and mark the ones you are 100 percent sure. Then narrow it down to where you are unsure of two possible correct answers. Take the first one. Then for the ones you do not have a clue. Mark them all c. Took me one hour. Scored 156 again.

Response by Pvt Michael Todd made May 23 at 2019 9:31 AM

2019-05-23T09:31:45-04:00

No way, because you can't beat their asses to straighten them up. If you could then it would be the perfect job.

Response by CPO David Marlowe made May 25 at 2019 3:22 PM

2019-05-25T15:22:40-04:00

I think the military trainer works better as a independent contractor trainer. The military taught me to be independent and responsible, they both have worked well for me as a independent contractor. I don't need a boss to tell me how to do my job, just a boss to tell me what he wants done. As a retired Navy Chief, I'll do the rest. With all the new hires in manufacturing companies, independent contract trainers are in demand. I'm into my 23rd. year providing industrial maintenance training to skilled trades personnel nation wide. If training is something you are good at and interests you, give it a try. Besides, I'm retiring next year and someone needs to take up where i leave off.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Jun 10 at 2019 12:03 PM

2019-06-10T12:03:36-04:00

Great article Sgt. Joseph Gunderson. Unfortunately, you fail to mention the lack of discipline and expectations that parents, clergy and others neglect. The school system like our current military
is handcuffed in the performance of their duties. However Sgt.Those of us who care can try to coerce
Both houses of government and our local government to make America great again.
Sgt. you and I and many others can continue to be an example of how an Earthling should act.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 6 at 2019 4:00 PM

2019-07-06T16:00:04-04:00

I concur being both an NCO and teacher. One informs the other.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 7 at 2019 10:48 AM

2019-07-07T10:48:34-04:00

My irony is most of my family are teachers, and I picked the military for my career. Then I realized as leaders, one of greatest attributes as a military leader is to teach the troops and subordinate leaders.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 5:43 PM

2019-07-10T17:43:47-04:00

I totally agree with your assessment. Without trying to sound like a "conspiracy theorist", the dumbing down and pushing the philosophy that people should not be held accountable for their actions/ inaction is "okay" is undermining our society as a whole, the military in particular. Anyone that has a lack of integrity, shows disloyalty to the US (that does not mean those that disagree with politically "correctness", etc.) have no place in our military....PERIOD

Response by SPC Kelly Grindstaff made Aug 2 at 2019 2:48 PM

2019-08-02T14:48:33-04:00

My time in the service I found I could teach others how to get the things done correctly. My Motto has been the same as Sgt Joseph Gunderson. "Those that Can't, Teach", "Those That Can Do". Its goes with this term "Those that Talk the Talk, Better be able to Walk the Walk" if not its just bullshit. That's the standard I held my teachers to when I took college courses, I was paying for it and you better get it to me.

The Children coming out of Public Schools today are getting absolutely no education in Life Skills. IE Budgeting, setting attainable Goals, being able to balance a "Check Book", Putting Bigger requirements on CIVIC (Social Studies to some). My list could go on for days. They are not being taught how to use what they are being taught in practical applications, that is HUGE! They are being educated on the easy way to do things IE Math they let them use calculators in class. "Hell No". Do it on paper then you own it, let a calculator do it and you will struggle with math all your life. I have seen many kids doing homework and having trouble with it, using a calculator. When I help them we do it on paper, put the calculator away. Then they really get it. Same with life skills Goals and Budgets.

Yeah I am from a Older Generation and we got that, Home Ecc, Typing ect all of those were offered when I was there and I took them then and it was rounded, Where I Graduated from. They are not getting them or the schools are not requiring it. They are not prepared for College, because of the above they have no life skills and they are in trouble the day they walk in there. So many of them have no "Common Sense" they may have "Street Smarts" but not the other. That is where the parents have failed them.

That is why Colleges spend, usually the first 2 years, teaching them what they should have been taught in HS. Because that is how unprepared they are, they are having to pay for what they should have before they get there. I reviewed many of the Syllabuses of Colleges that their requirements include what I mentioned above. They can take the Optional courses "Majors" they want to Graduate with at the same time.

When I taught others I did it the Military Way. You Tell them What you are going to Teach, Then you teach them the Subject Matter. Then you ask them what they were Taught. That is how you can catch the ones that fell through the cracks. The ones that got it, done. The ones that didn't, I spent extra time with them. Never Assume anything. That is how I got the EIB the first time through and 5 other Guys with me got it also, When I saw what each station was about I would go over it with all of them. Hell it was refreshing me to on each one. That way you weren't having to do it all cold. A big Go, No Go for that test, one, No Go, You failed the whole thing.

Good Officers and NCOs have had to do these things yeah we got the kids from Basic/AIT and then would begin the extended part of their education. I just don't think public schools would allow the level we would need to educate them. We know how to get their Attention and we know how to make sure they get it. Its just the all the Psychologists and Head Doctors won't let them learn with discipline. To many schools are passing kids who really shouldn't be but its the $$ now.

Response by MAJ William Smith made Aug 11 at 2019 2:24 PM

2019-08-11T14:24:09-04:00

I hold an Ed.D. and have 34 years of experience as an educator. I joined the Army National Guard as soon as I got my first teaching appointment. My Drill Sergeants had far more influence on my classroom management and instructional style than my graduate professors. They taught me which things are black and white as opposed to grey and they taught me to carry on with dignity and a sense of humor.

Response by PO2 Mark Chambers made Aug 22 at 2019 10:56 AM

2019-08-22T10:56:33-04:00

I served as a PO2 in the Navy for four years when I recieved a medical discharge, but I have been an educator at the secondary and post-secondary level now for over 30 years. I believe that the Navy taught me some very important lessons that I still use today both in my work and in my personal life. And the most important of those lessons, Honor, Courage, and Committment. These values have become my credo. Character triats that I have always tried to demonstrate to my classes and students. And now that I am an academic advisor, these are traits that I believe I can demonstrate to my advisees as important values for work and life.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Sep 12 at 2019 6:22 AM

2019-09-12T06:22:20-04:00

These little bastards today need USMC DI's for teachers.

Response by Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 11:54 AM

2020-02-27T11:54:38-05:00

SGT Joseph Gunderson your description of my generation (particularly those slightly younger than me) is spot-on. Unfortunately, I feel that the biggest issue (potentially) facing American youth is the lack of a strong work ethic. Maybe this is due to life simply becoming easier on average, more “handouts”, a lack of being challenged - whatever the cause, the effect is a generally less intrinsically motivated work force (why have pride in your work if you’ve never really been challenged?), and a sense of “why should I adapt to become a better worker? Let me have my workplace, surroundings, coworkers, etc adapt to ME, so I can be more comfortable”.
Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox now. Thanks for the share.

Response by Wayne Soares made Jun 14 at 2020 9:29 AM

2020-06-14T09:29:51-04:00

Great share