The Citadel stunned after photos of its Cadets in "KKK dress" emerges... What do you think? Were they innocent, ignorant or both?

2015-12-10T14:45:56-05:00

Okay... I'm not one to quickly judge as the skit was about "the ghosts of Christmas past"... but with the number of them present, I find it hard that, at least one of them, didn't ask, "Really? Really???". SO... What do you think about the actions of our Citadel Cadets? Are they the acts of innocence, ignorance or both? Giving them the benefit of doubt with their military association, I tend to lean towards both, as this is the Citadel, after all... But what do you think?

"Ghosts of Christmas past? More like specters from the South's racist past.
More than a dozen cadets at The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina, were in hot water Thursday after photos were posted online of them looking like Ku Klux Klansmen.
"Preliminary reports are cadets were singing Christmas carols as part of a 'Ghosts of Christmas Past' skit," the school's president, retired Lt. Gen. John W. Rosa, said in a statement. "These images are not consistent with our core values of honor, duty and respect.""

The students involved were not immediately identified.

Calling it "offensive and disturbing," Rosa said they immediately suspended "those cadets known to be involved" and were going after the others who were photographed dressed all in white — and with white pillowcases covering their heads that looked like KKK hoods.

On the Citadel Alumni Association's Facebook page, there was both anger and embarrassment over the photos.

"The stupid and utterly unacceptable and deeply offensive actions of a few, should not sully a whole college," one member posted on the site. "Shame on those who did this and thankyou (sic) to the college leadership in acting so quickly."

But that sentiment was not unanimous.

"The Citadel is buckling like cowards," another posted.

On the Citadel Minority-Alumni page, the consensus was clearer.

"Why would anyone think that this is ok?" one post read. "Will the administration at The Citadel let this go? This picture is a disgrace and a slap in the face. Who are the cadets in this picture and who is their cadet leadership? We're watching to see how this all plays out..."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/citadel-stunned-after-photos-cadets-looking-kkk-emerge-n477856

Citadel Stunned After Photos of Cadets Looking Like KKK Emerge

CItadel suspend cadets after photos emerge of them with white pilow cases over heads and looking more like KKK than ghosts of Christmas past.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 2:59 PM

2015-12-10T14:59:53-05:00

having had to dig on the net to see the pics in question, I have to admit that was an extremely poor taste and idiotic decision to make. I'm not saying they meant for any racism innuendo to be taken away from this, but they should certainly have been aware that this could (and did) happen.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Dec 10 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-12-10T15:00:08-05:00

Must mean that Caspar and Space Ghost belonged to the Klan?

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 10 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-12-10T15:01:37-05:00

I couldn't see the pictures to make a more informed judgment, but off face value if the president of the Citadel thinks suspension was warranted, the alumni need to support him. If they cannot or will not, there are other colleges and universities out there to educate their kids.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 10 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-12-10T15:01:43-05:00

Childish judgment is frequently disturbing.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Dec 10 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-12-10T15:02:16-05:00

Yeah, I'll go with a little of "both." As the Citadel is nested in South Carolina, these cadets HAD to know the history of the KKK in the area. I'm sure they will have some time to ponder their actions during their pending suspension. While I might expect something like this from a fraternity within a civilian university, I am disappointed to see it come from this particular institution.

Response by SGT David T. made Dec 10 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-12-10T15:02:23-05:00

They kinda look like poor trailer trash versions of the Klan. The usual ones I see on TV have more elaborate and better constructed costumes (not sure what else to call it). I think this is where the university needs to dig deep and find out what the intent actually was. If it was benign as they claim then some extra training would be warranted. If they had an ulterior motive, then expulsion would be appropriate. Context matters. There are religious groups in Spain that wear similar garb even though their's predates the Klan. Here is a link so you can see what I am talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capirote

Capirote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A capirote is a pointed hat of conical form that is used in Spain. It is part of the uniform of some brotherhoods including the Nazarenos and "Fariseos" during Easter observances and reenactments in some areas during Holy Week in Spain.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-12-10T15:24:08-05:00

Both.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Dec 10 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-12-10T15:24:47-05:00

Extremely poor planning and leadership on this one.
With all of the costumes you can buy cheaply that would actually look like a ghost there is no reason to put a pillow case on your head.
Heck even with a little bit of imagination being used you could dress up in all white and then using the white makeup in a traditional child's halloween makeup kit you can pick up at the .99 store to whiten the faces, necks and exposed skin to make someone look like a ghost.
They obviously forgot the rule of the 7 P's, Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Dec 10 at 2015 4:22 PM

2015-12-10T16:22:59-05:00

Since the only thing that those costumes really have in common with the Klan is that they are white exactly what does everyone think that a ghost costume should look like? Or are all ghosts racists? I have lived in areas where the Klan really did have a strong presence and Klan robes would not have been my first impression of those costumes especially in the context of a play about ghosts.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Dec 10 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-12-10T16:57:15-05:00

This is because we're not teaching our history in school. Before you had a football rivalry at a collage. The opposing team hung effigies of people on a tree. They knew nothing about blacks being lynched. I remember on South Park Cartmen did not understand why he got no candy wearing his Hitler costume. He changed to a ghost. That was a kkk outfit.

Response by MAJ James Woods made Dec 10 at 2015 7:28 PM

2015-12-10T19:28:14-05:00

I've seen pics and have to say the costumes were a lil too pointed to be a ghost outfit but I will accept whatever judgment the Citadel leadership decides. I'm a bit biased cause I've met Citadel alumni during my service and a few were great individuals and a few showed their racist or sexist idealism. Regardless the intent of these young individuals , poor judgment was made.

Response by Joe Merchant made Dec 11 at 2015 6:57 AM

2015-12-11T06:57:44-05:00

Have any of you considered how far-reaching this may be? This idiotic prank may have been the result of orders from a group of upper classmen. Intense investigation needed. Possibly a failure of the fourth class system.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Dec 11 at 2015 10:32 AM

2015-12-11T10:32:36-05:00

Suspended? They should all be expelled as it is inappropriate, racist and just not acceptable for a military school or any school for that matter.

Response by CAPT Michael White made Dec 11 at 2015 11:17 AM

2015-12-11T11:17:54-05:00

Its part of the history and culture of the Citadel. I served in Charleston for three years...the School is a military camp for the children of the local elite, with a few outsiders sprinkled in. No matter how hard some of the very sincere, noteworthy leaders of the institution try....they cannot erase a history and culture the career staff seem to tacitly encourage. Yeah, they knew what they were doing, and they were either incredibly arrogant or stunningly stupid if they thought they wouldn't get caught. Whichever it was, we don't need leaders of either type in uniform.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 11 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-12-11T13:00:03-05:00

The impetus for clowning around in KKK suits is based on stupidity. Pure unadulterated stupidity.

Response by Maj Matt Hylton made Dec 11 at 2015 2:24 PM

2015-12-11T14:24:18-05:00

I can only speculate based on my experiences at VMI since it is extremely similar to the Citadel (and Norwich) - a state run military college modeled after West Point with a dedicated corps of cadets.

I don't know of the tradition involved at the Citadel with a "Ghosts of Christmas Past" skit, but this has probably gotten blown out of proportion immensely. From the pictures, it appears to me that all portions of the "ghost costumes" that the cadets were wearing is either a uniform item or an issued item (while pants, white undershirt, white gloves and a white pillowcase). These are all items you have available to you in your room or through the bookstore or uniform store on post. Also, it only results in cutting eye holes in a pillowcase and not an entire sheet. It's also goofier looking than a plain "ghost costume" made from a white sheet. These cadets aren't like normal college students - you don't get to drive into town to Wal-Mart to pick up stuff that you want/need (I didn't get to drive anywhere until I was a Junior because that was when I was first allowed to have a car, and even then it was only on the weekends when I was allowed to leave post). You also aren't even allowed to have civilian clothes in your room (except seniors) unless you are getting ready to leave for break/weekend (at least those were the rules I remember). There are specific items allowed in barracks rooms and many prohibited items. This is also based on the class system. Freshmen (Knobs at the Citadel / Rats at VMI) have almost zero privileges and seniors have the most.

As some have speculated, people think this might have been hazing, but it just does not qualify at all. It's bound to be some kind of goofy tradition that upperclassmen force knobs to perform right before Christmas break. Hazing is when someone in your company screws up and you are all forced to go put on winter grey blouse along with raincoat (thick wool uniform and a even thicker wool full length trench coat) and then you are all forced into one barracks room, the heat is turned all the way up, doors and windows are shut and you are all forced to work out until people start passing out. Then you're given demerits the next day during room inspection for your parade uniform being dirty/out of regs.

I definitely feel bad for kids getting suspended over this because it seems to be an extreme knee jerk overreaction to the situation. Especially if they are suspending lower class cadets that were told to do this by upper class cadets. It might now sound like much, but it is a huge punishment to get suspended from a school like this. If it is a semester suspension, then you've forced these kids out of the class with the rest of their classmates. That doesn't seem like much in a normal college, but it is everything at institutions like this. You form a bond with your classmates during your freshman year and that bond is increased as you progress through not only the academic but also the hierarchical class systems established within these schools. I could go meet up with any of my "brother rats" that I graduated with over 12 years ago and we'd be able to sit down, drink a few beers and have plenty to talk about because we all know each other.
It is especially punishment for a freshman cadet. They cannot just resume at the beginning of the next year even if it is a semester suspension. You must complete your entire first year with your class and (in VMI terms) "break-out" to actually become an official member of the class system within the school. VMI and Citadel do not allow a freshman cadet to start one semester and not finish the next - you must complete the entire year at once. A semester suspension equals a 1 year set-back (although maybe not academically) for a freshman cadet. You essentially wash-out and cannot come back until the following Fall semester to try again (if allowed to come back at all).

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Dec 12 at 2015 1:29 AM

2015-12-12T01:29:14-05:00

These are the best, the brightest, our future leaders...and they pull a country dumb statement like that out of their asses. Ooo, we're ghosts! pathetic and dangerous.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Dec 13 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-12-13T16:17:18-05:00

Whether is was intentional or just stupid, IMHO none of these students deserve to become officers in the Army. There is no excuse. I do wonder who the older man in the picture is. Since he is partaking in this (minus the pillow cases), he is as guilty as the cadet and probably more so. Has that information been reported anywhere?

Response by SGT Freddie Richard made Dec 13 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-12-13T17:12:25-05:00

Those look identical to Fraternal Hoods used during frat initiations, including by African American Fraternities and Masonic Lodges. Saying they look like the KKK is the equivalent of saying that all Middle Easterners are terrorist because they are from the Middle East.

Response by CAPT Tom Bersson made Dec 13 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-12-13T17:37:16-05:00

They were stupid and ignorant.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-12-13T19:11:02-05:00

One should never be ceased to be amazed by the stupidity of others.

Response by PVT Andrew Burd made Dec 14 at 2015 5:29 AM

2015-12-14T05:29:04-05:00

hey.. people.. could you display a little more ignorance? are you not aware that jumping on this is a knee-jerk reaction?

first of all, the KKK have very tall pointy hats that are based on the robes worn here by this EGYPTIAN SATANIC CULT. ...which coincidentally doesn't actually worship the devil...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-12-14T11:44:50-05:00

I'm going to give the kids the benefit of the doubt, but the adults who were present should be held accountable. It could have started out as innocent but someone had to recognize how it appeared/could be construed as representing racism. It's not funny! I saw the pictures...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 7:55 PM

2015-12-14T19:55:54-05:00

there is no way the entire group as a whole was completely ignorant to the fact that this act was offensive and due to raise a lot of negative attention once they PHOTOGRAPHED it together. if they really wanted to do a sketch of ghosts of Christmas there a other options/costume choices they could have come up with. good grief

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Dec 24 at 2015 11:28 AM

2015-12-24T11:28:14-05:00

When I first saw the photo's, I was like wth is this. Then when I read up on it, it said they were supposed to be ghosts. Really poor choice of costuming if that was the case. Welcome to the 21st century. Hell, my wife constantly thinks I think and mean things I don't, now society is getting that way too I guess, if it was an innocent mistake, which I have no way of actually knowing.