The Commander in Chief can openly endorse a political party, shouldn't we be able to also?

2014-03-31T16:52:18-04:00

Every day I drive on post and see a Soldier in uniform driving with a political party sticker on their car that says "Obama-Biden", or"#$%@ Libtards" "NRA for Life" or one of Calvin urinating on some other cause. The problem with this, is that technically, as Soldiers we are forbidden from openly endorsing polical parties, causes and groups and attending rallies in uniform. Apparently, displaying it on your POV while driving in uniform is acceptable, but attening a walk for cancer, political party convention, pride march etc. is forbidden. Where do we draw the line? I see the POTUS as being a servicemember, his uniform being a custom taylored suit, paid for by the american taxpayer, just as my fatigues are. Do you agree that is it okay that our Commander in Chief openly endorses a political party, but we cannot? Thoughts and opinions?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/04/army-soldier-rallying-for-paul-violated-military-ban-on-political-activity/

Army soldier rallying for Paul violated military ban on political activity

(CNN) -- Ron Paul spent Tuesday heralding his support among members of the military, but one active-duty supporter may be in trouble after lauding Paul on stage while wearing his Army uniform.

Army...

Response by SGT James Elphick made Mar 31 at 2014 5:08 PM

2014-03-31T17:08:57-04:00

That is actually an interesting thought that I had never considered. The CinC has a political affiliation that he openly supports, endorses, and in fact is the de facto leader of during his term. I can see there being issues about attending events in uniform or openly supporting a political party as a servicemember since technically we support and defend all Americans, not just those we choose to affiliate with.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2014 5:29 PM

2014-03-31T17:29:49-04:00

POTUS, while commander in chief of the armed forces, is NOT a service member. He is a civilian, and it's extremely deliberate to have a civilian overall in charge of the military.

The concept behind service members not publicly affiliating with any one political party loosely ties in with posse comitatus. Basically, the armed forces is not a political army. We do not fight for the democratic party, the republican party, or any other party. That is the inevitable conclusion to politicizing the military.

For a service member to openly and publicly endorse a political side gives the perception that their service endorses that particular political party, which leads to the perception that the military supports one political party over another. History gives us many precedents for how this generally turns out...

Coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A coup d'état (/ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/; French: blow of state; plural: coups d'état), also known as a coup, a putsch, or an overthrow, is the sudden and illegal seizure of a government,[1][2][3][4] usually inst...

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Mar 31 at 2014 5:36 PM

2014-03-31T17:36:04-04:00

The president commands the armed services, but he is not part of them.

The reasons for restricting servicemembers' political activity, especially while acting with the authority of their office, are many and significant.

The subordination of the Army to civil authority was quite deliberate.

Response by SPC David Wyckoff made Mar 31 at 2014 5:48 PM

2014-03-31T17:48:59-04:00

I don't have up to date information with the SMs and their connection to a specific political affiliation. As civilian employees, we simply can't connect our professional job or experience to our political affiliation. It's covered under the Hatch Act. We can't attend rallies or be active as an agent of the government or in any way use our position or authority to assist any political group.

I would think that a SM would be able to express themselves politically as long they don't connect themselves as an agent of the government or representative of their branch. I.E. not in uniform at rallies and such or not recruiting at the work place.

The line gets shady when people already know you are a SM and you are vocal about your politics. I believe that respectful political discourse is still allowed in the military.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2014 6:51 PM

2014-03-31T18:51:26-04:00

SSG Hedges,

Hopefully the distinction between government employees and elected officials (who almost all have party endorsements because they are elected, and that's how our form of government works) has now been made clear to you, so I won't pile on.

What I do want to address is why you cannot attend a cancer walk, pride rally, or volunteer at the park, etc in uniform. This one is easy: because you are NOT on duty. Your uniform is not a mardi gras costume that you can put on to parade yourself around in whenever you feel like it. As a tax-payer, if I see Soldiers in uniform providing services, I have to assume that my tax dollars are paying for said service. Big no-no. A Solder wearing his/her unit T-Shirt is identifying as a Soldier, but not giving the impression he/she is on the clock or that he/she is there to represent the unit (or the Army or the U.S. military) is good to go.

I understand that people get mixed up about this, but it never hurts to ask for guidance or clarification from JAG if you are thinking about engaging in an activity.

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Mar 31 at 2014 6:53 PM

2014-03-31T18:53:43-04:00

Great question, I am involved in politics but can only do so when not on duty or on order. The President of the United States is an elected official, we in the military are not. We are appointed according to the Constitution. Our Constitution gives rights for the President to endorse and be a part of the political party but appointed officers in the military cannot. The reason being is that as members of the military we give up certain constitutional rights. (we don't have complete freedom while in uniform and fall under UCMJ).

So in short, POTUS is not a servicemember since the Constitution grants rights for a civilian controlled military. Our founding fathers wanted to avoid a military run government like in ancient rome a general could march to Rome and take over the government. Lincoln fired McClellan, Truman fired MacArthur, civilian control is what separates us from many historical coups.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 31 at 2014 7:25 PM

2014-03-31T19:25:15-04:00

Unfortunately the POTUS/CinC is not a member of the Armed Forces and is not subject the UCMJ and the many regs that you as a Soldier are, believe me, it was a touchy subject with the whole Clinton-Lewinsky debacle back in the '90s. I agree with the regs preventing us from supporting a party/candidate at a rally or in any manner while in uniform, we are supposed to be above the fray, no matter your party allegiance or political views. As for the bumper sticker issue, it's a tough call because it could be the significant other's POV and they are not subject to the same restrictions that we are either.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Mar 31 at 2014 9:54 PM

2014-03-31T21:54:40-04:00

Good Thought Game and there is something to be said with the point you are trying to make. Fortunately/Unfortunately the President is the only Military Man Elected/Selected by the Majority of Americans (At least the Voting Majority). So just like us he is duty bound to those that elected them be they Republican or Democrat to represent their Overall interest. Now us Lowly Enlisted Guys are selected by "Those officers appointed over us" and the Officers are Selected by the Congress which really sets up an interesting dynamic.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 11:21 AM

2014-04-02T11:21:00-04:00

Military personnel are appointed, commissioned, and enlisted to represent the Constitution of the United States in the same way which legal counsel and law enforcement are. We wear a uniform to identify us as representatives of the State [in our specific role]. It is the nature of being "in the service of". The Commander in Chief is also a public servant, but he represents the varied nature of the American people and every facet of their governing authority. The question that I believe you are grappling with is not whether a servicemember can exercise his/her private speech through decals and bumper stickers as per the Constitution, but rather where the line between your public civic life and private civic life is drawn under UCMJ and why. In short, if your personal public speech interferes with uniformed responsibilities, your Commander has the right and responsibility to require your conformity [in public] according to the UCMJ.

Unfortunately, our political actors have often blurred this understanding with respect to the military since political parties by nature desire a unified projection of political force to win electoral contests, and military personnel are 'hostage' to their oath to support and defend. Uniformed personnel should not be at partisan rallies of any kind except to preserve the right to free speech and to peaceably assemble as the Constitution dictates that the government should. Incidentally, it is also the reason why campaign finance guidelines have been so controversial with respect to activities of incumbent candidates. [If the President travels on the public dime to promote a party candidate, he is violating his oath as well.] Usually, to avoid the 'conflict of interest' question incumbents will travel using their own money, or on the public dime to support a cause or initiative which they deem is in the best interest of the public.

Likewise, since presumably, uniformed personnel are being paid to support, defend, [and represent] the Constitution of the United States and it's corresponding republic as a whole, you should not [cannot] divide your loyalties when wearing the mantle of that role. Promoting our individual diversity come at a cost to our "selfless" service.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2014 10:17 PM

2014-05-09T22:17:58-04:00

The thing is that in our POV we can do a lot because they are out Privately Owned Vehicles. So in a sense it is our right to express ourselves in them. We as service members are to a political because unlike other countries we do not run the government. We are under the command of the government or to put it a better way we are servants of the government. In that role we are not to be seen picking a side. That is way the oath that we took is not to any person or office instead it is to an ideal. That of the US Constitution and that we would obey orders of the government as long as they are lawful orders.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made May 9 at 2014 10:29 PM

2014-05-09T22:29:41-04:00

Having a bumper sticker on your POV is no more of an endorsement than the make and model of the car. Because I drive a Cadillac, does that mean the Army Endorses Caddies? No of course not. It means I do.
If I were driving a government vehicle, then that would be a different story.
To politically publicly endorse someone is a deliberate and direct act. It is not as simple as a passive bumper sticker subject to interpretation.
I.e. when the President endorses someone, he doesn't do it via bumper sticker, he does it by a public speech stating exactly that.
It is not hypocrisy for the President to endorse politicians. He is a politician. It is not only his job to endorse them but to actually appoint them. You can not fault him for something that is his job. From nominating Supreme Court Justices, Secretary of Defense, to his cabinet members. Frankly it is silly to even suggest such a thing.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 9 at 2014 10:35 PM

2014-05-09T22:35:36-04:00

I did not know "NRA for Life" was a political party but maybe it is to ultra 2nd amendment naysayers. I belong to the Republican party, but I don't have anything displayed on my vehicle that would suggest I support any group. And what exactly would constitute supporting a political group that might be considered an act which is openly carried out?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2014 7:16 PM

2014-08-17T19:16:20-04:00

Actually, military are forbidden from openly endorsing a candidate or political party while IN uniform. Once you start telling personnel to take a political sign off their vehicles, you're violating their right to free speech. Also, how do you know that the vehicle is not owned by the spouse?

The soldier pictured above was IN uniform when he did what he did. He violated DoD and Army regulations.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 1:32 AM

2014-08-22T01:32:48-04:00

We are in the military, we are not civilians, we do not go on lavish vacations at the tax payer's dollar. Politicians are almost completely incompetent, they can't decide what they are going to have for lunch everyday without a debate. I have no faith in them, I don't trust them, and I have no respect for them. If you want to endorse some political party, do it after you get out of the military. Keep the politics out of the military.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 15 at 2014 12:03 PM

2014-09-15T12:03:50-04:00

If I remember correctly you can join a political party, you just cannot openly endorse a political party. The rules are looser with Reservists and Guardsmen as when they are not completing there mandatory drill time they can endorse. Look at Senator Brown of Massachusetts, he was a reservist, served in the Senate, and supported a party.

I do not agree with active military being very vocal about political parties, nor uniformed service members regardless of status endorsing as it would seem to be a transition of power issue. Honestly I had issues with them saying how much the military gave to Congressmen Paul, or President Obama because it felt like an endorsement from the US Military. In the end I thing the big reason that the Military has to remain quite is to maintain the public trust that whomever they elect, their military will obey the orders given.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Sep 19 at 2014 10:36 PM

2014-09-19T22:36:45-04:00

Yes for the CinC (still a civilian), no for us (Active Duty).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2014 8:14 AM

2014-09-20T08:14:27-04:00

Big difference. The POTUS is not a service member.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 20 at 2014 8:36 AM

2014-09-20T08:36:02-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member Great responses! You have answered some of the questions I had and beat me to the punch on some otherones. Great discussion SSG Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 12:45 AM

2015-04-14T00:45:03-04:00

To echo others, while the President is also the Commander-in-Chief, he remains a civilian servant. Those Presidents who had a military commission prior to them becoming president had to resign to them. After their term, their commission gets reinstated.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made May 15 at 2015 7:20 PM

2015-05-15T19:20:04-04:00

Once a candidate is elected to the Executive, in theory he no longer represents his political party and those that are registered voters of his party, but ALL Americans -- including ALL those that didn't vote for him! The responsibilities of the Executive transcend party interests. He is supposed to be apolitical and work for the people. As our elected Executive, he is supposed to represent America's best interest -- even when it goes against his own personal and party interests... At least in theory! Unfortunately, that's not our reality.

When I wore the uniform, I did not involve myself in politics. I had no political opinion. I think it's best (and safest in terms of one's career) when those, who are in the military, stay out of politics.

Now I'm retired and I have more latitude to speak freely. Veterans can say what those on AD can not and we do so for our mutual benefit. I don't want to see the military gutted of its best leadership, nor do I want to see it turned into a social experiment.

I personally think if you take off your uniform and don't make an issue of your military status, that you SHOULD be able to exercise your rights, as a U.S. citizen, to support those candidates whom you feel represent America's best interest. One would expect that to be the case, but it seems that you can still get yourself in trouble for doing that. I am NOT advocating you do that. You should consult with your chain of command before doing something to make sure that you won't be setting yourself up for something that could have embarrassing and/or negative repercussions for yourself and the military.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 31 at 2016 1:17 PM

2016-03-31T13:17:15-04:00

You as Michael Hedges have every right to join whichever political party you want. You as SSG Hedges MUST remain apolitical. The moment we as the military starts endorsing a political party is the moment we put the US on the same road the destroyed the Roman Republic.

Response by SSG Dale London made May 7 at 2016 7:12 AM

2016-05-07T07:12:04-04:00

POTUS is not subject to military regs and there is no federal code prohibiting it.