The curious case of the NCO Creed. What does it actually do/measure?

2018-11-02T15:42:39-04:00

I'm just going to go ahead and get it out of the way. You can feel free to crucify. I personally think it's an antiquated and outdated measurement of potential for the next rank. Memorizing shows no more readiness to handle more responsibility than a line cook memorizing the prep list is ready to run a kitchen. This isn't to say, The Creed doesn't convey a great message, one in which selfless service, mission and soldiers go above ones personal plights. I get it and it's great to have the creed as part of the heraldry of the Corp. Other than than, I find little use for its use as a measuring stick of an effective leader. You can say espiritu de Corp and all that jazz, but I've never dug deep inside when I needed some intestinal fortitude to push on, and leaned on the inspirational words of the NCO creed. Sorry, some old timers might be screaming "unbecoming!" But I'm just telling the truth.

Officers, the faces of our organizations and answer before Congress. The ones appointed by presidential commission are expected to not only be leaders, but gentlemen. Men who are expected to command and lead masses, are expected to do just that, with no expectation of memorizing a creed. I'm sure one is out there, yet I've never once heard the officers creed at a promotion ceremony, yet the likes of Powell, Patreus, and McCrystal were expected to succeed, and did succeed without the use of a creed. Again, I'm not attacking it. I just dont feel it measures anything significant. I've finally lost it huh?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2018 3:45 PM

2018-11-02T15:45:07-04:00

edit

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Nov 2 at 2018 4:58 PM

2018-11-02T16:58:37-04:00

I would say that a NCO who follows the spirit of the Creed will be a good leader. Let's look at a few passages to evaluate its merits as a guide post.
"I will not use my grade or position to obtain pleasure, profit or personal safety."
"My two basic responsibilities will always remain uppermost in my mind, the accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers."
"I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs before my own."

Sounds like pretty good guidance for how a leader should view their responsibilities to me.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Nov 2 at 2018 5:22 PM

2018-11-02T17:22:15-04:00

Yes this old Soldier is outraged and can't believe what I just read. I hope you are not active duty; And if you are, I susgest you find another occupation because you just don't get it. I voted you down because you do not believe in yourself much less the mission of every NCO that is lead by example and to maintain the health and welfare of their subordinates. The creed is a pledge to not only the men you lead but an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to obey the officer appointed over you. Every human being in your chain of command from the lowest private to your commanding general depends on your fortitude and ability to carry out your mission. The Creed is also a guide which you don't get. I can't believe someone promoted you to Staff Sergeant. Yes I am Old School Soldier for Life. I would not fit into your ranks. In my day, you would not last long as a NCO with that attitude.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Nov 2 at 2018 6:26 PM

2018-11-02T18:26:18-04:00

Good luck.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Nov 2 at 2018 6:48 PM

2018-11-02T18:48:39-04:00

if all it is to you is something to be "memorized" then I feel sorry for you, your Soldiers, and those that have entrusted their faith and confidence in you. The NCO creed is a set of values and commitments you as a leader should live by. the reason you memorize it is so you do not forget your duties and responsibilities, and the order of your priorities.

You shift responsibility to officers when you say they are commissioned and answer to congress, I CANNOT stress enough that Officers should not be doing our job, our job is the training and day to day management of Soldiers, Officers handle the big picture shit, and pass down the Commanders intent, we ensure that intent is met. I think I just vomited by reading your post Specialist 6 Aldana

Jesus Fucking Christ, I am amazed, angered, and embarrassed by such a post from a seasoned Non Commisioned Officer, that's right mate - YOU ARE an Officer, with all the implications that carries. Why don't we do away with the Soldiers Creed, the Army Values, and all the things that are honorable and just. why not leave a fallen comrade, as retrieving them places you and your soldiers at risk, why not say fuck the mission, and it is difficult and risky to accomplish, why be technically and tactictly proficient, as we have commissioned officers to be that, hell, why have NCO's at all.

And to clarify - I am not an old school NCO, I medically retired in 2015, the duties and responsibilities of our profession have not "evolved" or "changed" this basic simple fact

No one is more professional than I. I am a noncommissioned officer, a leader of Soldiers. As a noncommissioned officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of noncommissioned officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.

first stanza applies today just as it has always been.

Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind—accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a noncommissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

Again, what has evolved or changed that this stanza does not apply?

Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my Soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, noncommissioned officers, leaders!

And again, what has changed or evolved that this does not apply?

My suggestion to you, separate, and Pray no one in your chain of command reads your asanine post.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Nov 2 at 2018 9:45 PM

2018-11-02T21:45:56-04:00

Officers are taught DUTY,HONOR,COUNTRY. You are suppose to live by the creed, not make it a Mantra to chant. You believe chanting/memorizing it- then find some "ruby Slippers "and Toto!

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Nov 3 at 2018 7:10 AM

2018-11-03T07:10:28-04:00

Not sure - NCO Creed after my time in active service - I first ran into it around 1998 when it was a brigade thing when I was a contractor in Kosovo

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Nov 3 at 2018 10:29 AM

2018-11-03T10:29:51-04:00

The Military has gone through some tough times and has scars from the growing pains. We have segregated people for every reason we fight to protect today. We learned, adapted, and applied our ethical dilemmas to better the organization and the people that drive it forward. Not that long ago could the value of a single NCO be appreciated let alone an entire corp of them. Over the last 100 years NCOs have transitioned from uneducated trigger pullers to adaptive, intelligent, and lethal maneuver elements. We have gained popularity and notoriety for our ability to execute tasks and orders down the the lowest level where bullet hits the flesh. The creed is a reminder of why the battle to earn a seat of the table was ever established and protected. As an NCO your sphere of influence is only as strong and large as your ability to inspire and motivate the Soldiers of your authority. You are their voice and their guardian of reason. Its not the creed that has to be memorized and recited, its the belief in you that the creed is your governing statement of execution and understanding of the power in which you possess. 100 years ago an NCO couldn't lead a charge of infantry up a hill without an officer to take charge and credit. Today depending on your unit of assignment and the faith in which they have for the NCOs of their ranks, you may find yourself maneuvering on the battlefield with those Soldiers of your authority. I hope your unit doesn't view the NCO creed as a basic requirement to advance the next “E” grade, but a honor to belong in such a great corp that has given so much and will give so much more to just have a seat at the table. Good luck

Response by MSG Carolyn Hunter-Drake made Nov 4 at 2018 8:00 PM

2018-11-04T20:00:45-05:00

I do not believe you have lost it. I do believe that you are civilian in a uniform. The names you tick off on that list, Powell, Patreus and so on, those Officers took in a whole lost of bullshit than you will ever go through, and you are looking at those words and thinking "this is nothing?" You do not feel it because you never was in it for blood, sweat and tears. God Speed, you going to need it for any young Soldier that calls you their leader.