The Importance of an Advanced Degree to Active Duty Military and Veterans

2014-10-21T11:57:05-04:00

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs documented in a 2009 report that there were close to 600,000 veterans enrolled in educational programs. That number increased to slightly more than 900,000 in 2012. In our current political climate, across the board cuts in spending and a reduction in our military forces are inevitable. The sequestration in 2013 had an immediate impact on military students and veterans. The cutbacks required in 2014 (and beyond) are causing members of our military to consider educational options for their future. As the number of people in the general population who possess a bachelor’s degree increases, the requirement for an advanced degree, such as an MBA, has risen significantly.

The Air Force encourages its members to obtain a master’s degree to advance in their military career. Officers entering as military lawyers need a law degree. For commissioned officers, promotions may require a combination of a degree with training and experience.

An MBA can provide numerous opportunities for all military personnel. These opportunities can promote the learning of new concepts and ideas, collaborating with peers, examining new research, and integrating classwork into the workplace. There can be both personal rewards from learning new management practices and professional rewards from bringing new skills and credentials to the workplace.

In introduction forum posts for one of the business courses at AMU, one student pointed out that his main reason for getting an MBA is because it’s required to continue progressing in rank in the Air Force. Another student is anticipating that a balanced background of a bachelor’s degree in engineering, and a master’s degree in business management, may help him prepare for the competitiveness of the aerospace industry.

The MBA program at AMU covers proven business practices, strategic planning, operational management concepts, and budgeting—all useful skills for those who might be transitioning from a military to civilian career. For example, one AMU student will be returning to the private sector after more than 12 years of military service and is planning a new career in the finance field. Another has a few years before he will reach 20 years of military service and is planning a post-service career in business management. A third graduate, retired after more than 30 years of service in the Air Force, shared an interesting reason for returning for an MBA—to motivate his children to never stop achieving and to keep pace with the high-caliber people joining the ranks today. Whether it’s a personal goal or a career requirement, earning an MBA is an important learning experience as you prepare for your future inside the military our out.

As originally posted by In Military Education
By Dr. Kathleen Shriver and Jodi Bouvin
American Military University
http://rly.pt/2kTwX0G

AMU Military Degrees: Educating Those Who Serve | American Military University

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Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 12:00 PM

2014-10-21T12:00:12-04:00

Is this from AMU?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 12:30 PM

2014-10-21T12:30:49-04:00

I agree wholeheartedly with the Air Force retiree. His goal "to motivate his children to never stop achieving and to keep pace with the high-caliber people joining the ranks today" could apply to all of us.

Long ago I heard the advice to never stop learning, and that's some great advice. In my day an advanced degree set a person apart. Nowadays, it still sets you apart, but it probably won't be too long (another 10 or 20 years?) before not having an advanced degree will set you apart ... and not, obviously, in a good way.

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Oct 21 at 2014 12:41 PM

2014-10-21T12:41:12-04:00

As regards the Navy, which I've been out of for a little more than a year now, the only degree I think a chief petty officer needs is a Bachelor's in Abnormal Psychology.

If you get sheepskins on the side while on active duty, that's a plus. I wouldn't judge that to be the compelling factor to advance Person A over Person B, though.

Our job, at least as NCOs and enlisted personnel, is to make sure we and our subordinates are victorious in battle, not collect university degrees.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 12:56 PM

2014-10-21T12:56:57-04:00

I believe in having a degree or at least some sort of education in order to succeed in life, but then theres reality of being in the military, its almost like if you want to continue on or move up you need a degree. I have met some NCO's that have more degrees then officers, but then i look at them and go "what sets them apart from them," is it because they went OCS, or got there commission from west point. I mean does it really make you better then them? But then in some services you need a masters to get Maj, and its like could you imagine telling a PFC , "hey guy ima need you to get this AA done before i can pin you SPC." that would be a world of difference... Could it benefit? Yeah, but is an NCO going to take his soldier off the battle field because he has an exam that needs to be done i think not.

I mean between PT, work, details and family and, and, and its hard to fit all that in but we manage, but then that degree that you got, now going to the civilian force doesnt always work out for people. That right there is a whole nother story...Just my .02

Response by Capt Douglas A. made Oct 21 at 2014 1:13 PM

2014-10-21T13:13:58-04:00

Chose wisely and with extreme prejudice when picking a MBA or any graduate program. What are your motives? Online MBAs are more about learn than ROI, if you want to make money from your MBA you need to go a top tier school. There are so many variables at hand, you need to be able to think short- and long- term. Have a plan, take the time to do it right, and remember significant changes to the GI Bill will help cover a lot more costs than it did five years ago. If you know you are not going to be a lifer - I would think the right answer for many is to wait until you separate then take 18-24 months to focus on a graduate program.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 1:16 PM

2014-10-21T13:16:00-04:00

The responsibility for leaders is to personally and professionally develop subordinates. This makes them better people as well as better sailors/soldiers/airmen/marines. The official/unofficial degree requirements for advancement are way of incentivizing this personal development in senior personnel.

In most cases it also develops better written communication skills which, in my opinion and experience are lacking in most junior officers and enlisted personnel. I know I thought I was god's gift to military prose when I was a PO2, now I just shudder when I reread my commissioning packages or any other endorsement I wrote from then.

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 21 at 2014 2:34 PM

2014-10-21T14:34:36-04:00

If I were in the military now I would take advantage of all the educational opportunities that I could handle. As the military is only going to reduce in size its better to be prepared for the civilian side. The civilian side is all about degrees and certifications. Plus you can get fired in a second. It is a much different environment than the military. Very hard to find a mentor, ladder climbers will do any thing to get the promotion and education is often used as a bench marker.

Response by COL Randall C. made Oct 21 at 2014 3:00 PM

2014-10-21T15:00:51-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member made a comment about furthering your education while still in the military to take advantage of tuition assistance. One thing to keep in mind for those the are separating instead of retiring, is to further you continuum of service by joining a reserve component. Tuition Assistance is available in both the Reserve and Guard and in many cases, a state (if you're in that state's Guard) will pay for your Bachelor or Master degree.

Response by SSG Ralph Innes made Oct 21 at 2014 3:55 PM

2014-10-21T15:55:45-04:00

As far as veterans go, what is important is finding what you love to do for a living. If that job requires and advanced degree, then by all means find a way to make that happen. It is of no benefit what degree you have if you dread getting up in the morning and going to work.

Response by SFC Timothy Snapp made Oct 21 at 2014 4:11 PM

2014-10-21T16:11:19-04:00

I wholeheartedly agree that service members and veterans need to make use of their education benefits as much as possible. I know several friends that are very limited in their career choices after leaving (retiring) from the military by having no degree or only a bachelor's. A senior NCO will take several steps backward in duties and responsibilities in the civilian market without a bachelor's and in more cases every day, without a Master's. The number of young people unable to get a job in the last few years when getting their Bachelor's decided to take on more debt and complete their Master's. They now have a higher powered civilian resume than a veteran on paper. The experience level is not there to match a veteran but the documentation accepted in civilian jobs is key to getting the interview. It is at this point that the veteran and his/her experience will shine. Without the documentation to get past the computerized word search programs reviewing resumes, the veteran resume does not even get out to the interview process.

Response by PO3 JoseLuis Breton made Oct 21 at 2014 4:21 PM

2014-10-21T16:21:19-04:00

The more educated we as veterans are the more we can control our own destiny.
God Bless ALL!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 4:47 PM

2014-10-21T16:47:43-04:00

You have to plan for a future no matter what it is a degree can and will help with whatever your future may be.

Response by PFC Lewis Hopkins made Oct 21 at 2014 7:27 PM

2014-10-21T19:27:48-04:00

What the fuck does this have to do with the Q&A on FB

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 7:46 PM

2014-10-21T19:46:56-04:00

I have always wanted a college degree, but with the addition of CCAF requirement for senior enlisted promotion I am moving that up on the list of things to accomplish. In addition to that...once i complete my CCAF I'll be able to use that to hopefully springboard into a bachelors. Once I complete my bachelors I plan on shooting for a commission.

It won't take me long to finish my CCAF, but its been so long since I've done school work that i'm unsure of how I'm going to complete it. I can do the online classes or the CLEPs...just got to get started on it all again.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 7:51 PM

2014-10-21T19:51:24-04:00

Is there really a correlation between educational attainment and career success? Or is it just that the same traits necessary to attain educational degrees also contribute to career success?

As the demand for degree holding personnel has increased, the difficulty of attaining degrees has decreased in order to fulfill that demand. The rigor required today for a degree is less that it was 40 years ago, and that was less than 40 years before that. There should be no such thing as a remedial course in higher education.

Higher education should remain higher. Once, Greek and Hebrew were taught in high schools and today many have to take remedial English in college.

Response by CPO Tim Dickey made Oct 21 at 2014 9:19 PM

2014-10-21T21:19:08-04:00

Having an advanced degree isn't about 'importance' per se. As CPO Greg Frazho stated, having a degree in Abnormal Psych is helpful.

That being said, I earned my advanced degree purely for personal satisfaction. I have a Masters in Liberal Studies, which doesn't translate to anything more than the ability to think and reason my way through an additional two years of college.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Oct 21 at 2014 10:07 PM

2014-10-21T22:07:00-04:00

I am totally glad I have a Masters Degree, I can command good pay almost what I am making on active duty as a Procurement Analyst in the contracting world. My future job. I am glad I used my time wisely and respectively using the Army TA. It has allowed me to have superior advantages over the masses and independence to Retire believe it or not. The pay and wisdom is a definite pay off. You always got to be redefining your skills and staying sharp for your skill set acquired (degree). It requires a lot of time researching and staying up to par to reach your goals. (Hooooooooooha)!

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 10:55 PM

2014-10-21T22:55:03-04:00

I was never interested in post high school education prior to joining the U.S. Air Force and as far back as I can remember, all I wanted to do was serve my country. Fortunately for me, over the course of my career I had exemplary mentors who pushed me in the right direction and I have earned a few degrees during the past 19 years. Choosing a degree plan that mirrored my career path in the AF not only improved me as a NCO, but I feel it added value to the AF as I was able to apply things learned to what we do. I also believe a college education certainly helped me set the foundation for post-military employment and I credit the knowledge gained (including my military service) in getting my own franchise.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 12:34 AM

2014-10-22T00:34:02-04:00

I am currently deployed with the officer in the photo, what a strange coincidence (although we are at different locations). I am also attending AMU working towards my Master's in Homeland Security with an emphasis in Criminal Justice.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 2:33 AM

2014-10-22T02:33:04-04:00

I am continually telling Soldiers how important getting an education is for thier future. My standard remark is that the Army (or whatever service) is for 20 years, but your education is forever. You can get your degree in absolutely anything that your heart desires, but it's the skills that you bring to the table as a soldier that will set you apart from other degree holders.
It used to be the common belief that if you had a degree, you would get hired because any company or agency knows that you will finish what you start because you completed your degree. That's not the case anymore. Yes, you did finish your degree, but so did 1,000 other people that are applying for this position. What sets you apart? Your attention to detail? Your self-discipline to get your assigned tasks completed?
A soldier or vet with a degree is a much more valuable commodity than a civilian with the same credentials; at least that's my belief.
When I first enlisted, many moons ago, I used the Loan Repayment Program to pay off my BA degree that I received prior to enlisting. Since then, I've used TA to do all of my coursework for my MA; with only my thesis to complete.
The opportunities are there, if someone chooses not to use them, they've no one to blame but themselves for not attempting to get ahead. How do you spend 20 (or more) years in the service and come out with an Associate's? That makes no sense. As our world advances and becomes more educationally advanced, the services must adapt and educationally advace as well. It only makes sense.

Response by GySgt George Vukovich made Oct 22 at 2014 9:11 AM

2014-10-22T09:11:18-04:00

In addition to the posting, above, I think it's worthy to mention the 'Million Records Project' compiled by the Student Veterans of America (SVA). The release of information in this project provided great insight to the value veterans place on higher education. It's long been assumed that GI Bill, Veteran payments, were being wasted on an incredibly high and discouraging drop out rate and tax payer dollars were being used inappropriately. Well, the MRP indicates other wise! Pull the results online and give a thorough read to the finding. I think you will be pleased to see how many men and women, utilizing their VA benefits, have actually achieved academic success. More importantly, to me, this is an indication of the value veterans place on higher education and their careers.

Response by Col Paul Schubert made Oct 22 at 2014 2:24 PM

2014-10-22T14:24:57-04:00

However, not all MBAs are created equal. Often, practical experience is more important than what is learned at MBA school. My advice to young airmen or officers has been over the years: only get an MBA if that school can open doors for you that you can't open through your military or business experience. My view is that there are only 20 or so MBA schools in the US that can actually do this.

Response by Maj Stephen Parsons, PhD made Nov 21 at 2014 9:53 PM

2014-11-21T21:53:14-05:00

What do you plan to do with you education (advanced degree) when you retire or separate? Will you put it to work for you? Do you know how?

Response by Col Paul Schubert made Nov 22 at 2014 11:19 AM

2014-11-22T11:19:13-05:00

Importance to Active Duty? Depends on the service. In USAF, gotta have it. But, could be from anywhere on anything. Not a good reason to get the advanced degree. Get it because it qualifies you for something you couldn't do without it. My JD qualified me to practice law. My MBA from a good school qualified me for investment banking and consulting. Couldn't do that with an MBA from someplace without a good program I got in the missile silo. Sometimes, though, the weak MBA might show you are serious about your education and qualified for better degrees.

Keep Studying!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2014 12:23 PM

2014-11-22T12:23:56-05:00

I can weigh in with an anecdotal story. I enlisted and shipped off to BCT 8 days after high school graduation. Over the course of my 7 years on active duty, I enrolled in a local college (Campbell University near Ft. Bragg,) and took a combo of night, weekend, online courses and CLEP tests. It made for some extremely long days, when I was rolling out of biology at 2100 hours, and missed weekend trips, but tuition assistance paid for about 90% of my Bachelors. The rest I paid out of pocket and was able to claim as a tax deduction. Then, when I ETS'd, I switched over to the Post 9/11 GI Bill, and used it to pay for grad school. I earned a Masters in Medical Science, and am now a Physician Assistant (PA.) I just accepted a job at the Department of Veterans Affairs, and now make more than double what I did as an E-5 with 7 years, along with excellent benefits. School is not for everyone, but if you play your cards right, it can pay off big time, as it is with me now.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2014 9:03 PM

2014-11-25T21:03:26-05:00

I completed a master's degree in anticipation of the upcoming promotion boards...Gen Welsh has decided to mask all education data until promotion to Col. I applaud the decision to mask the AADs...many folks were just hammering out the fastest, cheapest online degree they could get to check the box for the Air Force, and not getting much in the way of an education.

When you have a force that has such a high OPSTEMP as we currently do, it is becoming ever more challenging to balance work, home, and a worthwhile education. I think Gen Welsh understands that and is attempting to force USAF members to concentrate on their professional and personal lives.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 12:04 AM

2014-11-26T00:04:59-05:00

If an advanced degree doesn't help you do you job better, why get one? For the past several years, for-profit institutions have been bankrolled by the 'need' for AF officers to have an Advanced Degree in order to be promoted. This wasn't official policy, but it surely shook out in the rack-and-stack when two equally qualified officers went up for promotion and the one with an advanced degree (regardless of its relation to their career field) was placed higher. Because a box was checked, someone got an edge.

The opportunity of Tuition Assistance should be used to advance one's personal education in order to achieve their goals in life. Ideally (for the DoD), things that help them do their job better, or for other things, like SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL, who used his to get a leg up for his post-military service career.

I'm slightly pessimistic in regards to the Advanced Degree because I think many tax payers dollars have been spent by individuals getting degrees because they thought they had to have one to get promoted and were just playing the game. (New AF guidance should help alleviate this.)

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Nov 26 at 2014 7:01 AM

2014-11-26T07:01:00-05:00

Obtaining a degree just to get one is a waste of time. That being said you as an individual must select something that you want to do and will be relevant in a career after the Army. There are many service members that are working on their degree and choose the path of least resistance which often leads to lesser qualifications for when they decide to ETS or retire.

I believe that education is essential for both officers and enlisted. As NCO's move up the ranks they should be on the same intellectual level as their officer counterpart. In this case the higher education obtained regardless of degree helps foster critical thinking skills and professional writing skills needed in order to be an effective Senior NCO.

I have already obtained my AS in Aeronautical Science and have 10 classes remaining to complete my BS. It may not be geared toward my profession in the Army but the aviation industry is where I want to work after retirement. It has also given me the skills required to be an outside the box thinker which is helpful in the dynamic profession I am currently in.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 12:25 AM

2014-11-29T00:25:02-05:00

If you do chose o pursue a degree while serving, do it because you want it, not because "you need it" to progress or promote in the military. Get a degree that you are interested in, and that you think would be value added to your personal/professional life. This will save you many frustrating nights and weekends, especially as you balance a full time job and family.

Response by SFC Peter Cyprian made Nov 29 at 2014 1:45 AM

2014-11-29T01:45:22-05:00

Some will feel like the dog that has been kicked, others will not. If it applies to you, you know who you are.

Here's the deal- there are two kinds of troops that take college: the kind that basically screw everyone else in the platoon (because someone has to pick up their slack while they are getting that degree) and then the type that walks around looking sleep deprived because they refuse to screw their fellow Soldier over and therefore they work their butts off at BOTH college and their job. They found a way to get the degree and still be an effective member of the team- how can you not respect the heck out of that??

For you zombies out there, I salute you- you went and got that degree and did not have everyone else picking up your slack. For the others....I will refrain from typing what I truly think of you. You know who you are and every time you look at that piece of paper, you better be thankful for the troops that had to pick up your slack.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Dec 5 at 2014 12:26 PM

2014-12-05T12:26:29-05:00

A member of the DoD Warrior Transition Team told me that only 3% of vets enrolling in a four year program enroll on-time. We know there is a high drop out rate, but what needs to be looked at is how many need more than four years?

In any event, working full time and endeavoring to go to school full-time at night was one of the least enjoyable periods in my life - so any education you can get in the military would be incredibly useful to you after you ETS or retire. I was in during and after Viet Nam, and colleges were a royal pain in the ass. I had to hunt for one that was reasonably friendly. One college, Pace University, even tried to deny my NYS TAP that was properly awarded. I eventually tore up my registration papers, dropped them off at the Registrar, who lied to me, and left. I could not see me paying them to harass me for no reasonable purpose. I was disabled, not an idiot who could not think. Being forced to take a computer course that relied on punch cards to program the ancient computer that was being discarded after that semester was not even remotely useful, yet it was a required course.

I went for only my BS in accounting so I could sit for the CPA exam. Any further credentials for me were unessential. Time has changed the requirements, but if you are able to target a professional license or certification, then MBA may be unnecessary.

Good luck to all!.

Response by SGT Erik Prano made Dec 5 at 2014 1:10 PM

2014-12-05T13:10:21-05:00

After my 10 years of GI Bill was up, I still didn't use all of the money I had, left. as a result I could not finish my degree as I didn't have any way to pay for it. That was my story.

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made Dec 5 at 2014 4:59 PM

2014-12-05T16:59:29-05:00

Yes advance degrees are important but, over educated or to many will hinder you also. I got my PhD and when I went to apply I found barriers that came back as too much education or I would not be happy in that position. At the time All I did was want to work. I ended up starting three businesses and selling them off and finally found the one I own now and will keep for all time.

Response by SSgt Christopher R. made Mar 18 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-03-18T13:15:41-04:00

A recent study in 2015 (from data collected over 2014) has shown the trend in the corporate world is leaning more towards hiring those with experience than with an advanced degree. In fact, with the flood of graduates it is becoming harder and harder to find qualified candidates because so many lack any relative experience not provided through college or graduate course work.

Does it still make sense for the military to promote advance degrees simply for the purpose of proving a use of education funds? Would the funding be better served to expand experiences or expertise within a career field that also translates into civilian experience that would make hiring veterans an invaluable commodity?

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Mar 18 at 2015 3:11 PM

2015-03-18T15:11:32-04:00

I have my direct commission with my BS Nursing degree. I found out while still a junior captain that while a nursing certification and/or Masters of Nursing were not required, when you are racked and stacked against your peers and they all had both..... you would be passed over. I took that as an omen and got my nursing certification as a Certified Medical Surgical Registered Nurse and completed my MSNurising in Healthcare Education. Seems to have worked so far. Now preparation for retirement from the AF..... having to take a long hard look at the civilian markets...