The infamous LT saluting thread...what does it say about us?

MSgt Jim Pollock — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 00:08:43 -0500

I noticed "that" thread has over 600 replies and nearly 4500 votes...must be a RP record.

Interestingly, the question is seemingly innocuous--the regs are clear, juniors salute seniors; yet, the debate became a RP classic.

Are certain regulations or customs more coveted than others? In theory, they should all carry equal weight, but in practice this doesn't seem true.

What say you? What customs or regs do you enforce most fiercely, if any?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 2:54 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:54:42 -0500

You know the answer and you know why it was so popular. Senior NCOs must enforce all standards, policies, regulations and customs/courtesies ruthlessly. We must be the shining example for others to follow.

I salute all officers including 2LTs, if a 2LT wants me to stand at attention while addressing him/her I will. Now that probably won't bode well for that young LT when my battle buddy finds out but, that's the rule.

Herding the enlisted is pretty hard work but, we have some help in our junior NCOs. Keeping the officers straight is much harder. While there are some very professional officers who understand the "officer and a gentlemen" mentality, they do not do a very good job of policing each other. It usually takes a whisper in the ear of an O-5 from an E-9 to get an O-4 or below to understand. Usually only takes one whisper though.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 2:57 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:57:01 -0500

Response by CPO Jon Campbell made Feb 25 at 2015 7:25 AM

CPO Jon Campbell — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 07:25:12 -0500

In my experience, people tend to enforce regs that were rigerously enforced on them. Once in awhile someone will come along who has studied the regs and picked a favorite to enforce. Sometimes a person will pick a reg with a gray area and adopt it as a pet. I remember some Navy officers who loved to snip at enlisted as they entered the Navy hospital in Charleston for not saluting under the entranceway that was mostly inside, but had been determined to be a saluting area.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Feb 25 at 2015 7:33 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 07:33:03 -0500

Things it says:

1. CPT Private RallyPoint Member Posed a question early in the history of RP.
2. He touched a chord of a very specifically constrained minute detail of customs and courtesies that some people cherish in general, and other people think is unimportant (especially in specific) to observe and varies in importance by service and era.
3. He picked a piece of customs and courtesies that many people consider trivial in the grand scheme of things and therefore comment with lots of "seriously?"
4. As the post gains attention and participation it becomes self-perpetuating for reason 3. It will likely continue growing as RP does for quite some time.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 8:58 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 08:58:41 -0500

I would say the saluting custom but I think someone already covered that. I heard the guy got an award for that at the RallyPoint Expo (RPx). I have seen some of his work and he is a pretty brilliant guy.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Feb 25 at 2015 9:47 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 09:47:12 -0500

WHY WHY WHY did you breathe the breath of life back into this thread. Do you have any idea how much therapy you just undid?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 10:58 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 10:58:34 -0500

As an NCO, it was my duty to ensure adherence to all customs and courtesies and regulations, equally. It was not my duty or responsibility to determine which regulations would be followed and which would be set aside. That's the prerogative of the Commander alone, and even then, in a very limited capacity.

One of the most difficult things I had to do was not correct an A1C at Beale AFB in CA after he turned his back to a Col while on his personal cell phone. I was a civilian and felt it was not my place, any longer, to correct this behavior.

Edit: changed "enforce" to "ensure adherence to"; added "equally"

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 9:48 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 21:48:31 -0500

As Gen. Patton said: "There is only one sort of discipline, perfect discipline." Compromising some standards and not others does nothing but create confusion and discontent. My personal feelings on the importance of saluting are irrelevant. It is one of many standards I have a responsibility to enforce.

CSM Oldsen is unfortunately correct that Officers often do not police their own as well as they should. I've corrected 2LTs for missing salutes or not clearing their weapon prior to entering a building. They often seem shocked and I sometimes get attitude back. Standards apply to everyone, regardless of rank. I had a SSG politely correct me around a year ago. It was a Company standard I wasn't tracking. All I said was "Thank you."

I think many of the discipline issues specifically related to 2LT-CPTs are a direct result of immaturity and lack of training. Many of our junior Officers have 3 years or less in uniform and often have had very little mentorship up to that point. At least in my experience our commissioning sources and BOLC do not emphasize basic Soldier skills like customs and courtesies. If we don't inculcate customs and courtesies at an early stage with Officers like we do with enlisted Soldiers at BCT they're unlikely to take it as seriously.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 4:06 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 04:06:58 -0500

Honestly? I avoided that thread like the plague as I recall, but I'm thinking the bulk of it was just jawing to the tune of dicking around as to actually being serious. An argument for argument's sake. My theory? The thread says we're a bunch of bored folks on the internet.