The life of a Warrant Officer vs Commissioned Officer; which would you choose at age 35?

2015-06-22T00:39:17-04:00

Marine Corps Reservist here. I'm in a position in my career where I can go either warrant officer in the SMCR or commission in another reserve component branch.

However at 35, I don't like the idea of being a butter bar after 13-years of enlisted service. I like the idea of a warrant officer because of the respect that comes with the rank. People know you went through the ranks on the enlisted side first. However, I also don't like the idea of ranking under a butter bar.

I've looked at the DFAS pay chart and I can see that if I at least make it to CWO4 and retire with 30-years of service, I will make a little more than an 04. Basically, if I commission or go warrant and serve up to 30-years, I will make a very similar paycheck for retirement. I will just be forced to retire after 30-years as a warrant where I will be able to serve another 9-years (up to the age of 60) as a commissioned officer.

I'm just throwing facts and figures here. Not really sure how long I want to continue serving. I just know I'm not done yet. But with bachelors and masters degree, I don't want to stay enlisted.

The big question is who has a better life? I've heard that as a warrant, you get to enjoy the best of both worlds (enlisted and officer) whatever that means, whereas a commissioned officer will deal with more stress and politics.

I just want to get some feedback, what your feelings are, etc.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 22 at 2015 12:51 AM

2015-06-22T00:51:50-04:00

The Marines and Army are different. But, in the Army Officers are generalists, leaders, managers, and Commanders.... whereas Warrant Officers are technical experts in their chosen field. They are leaders too, but in most cases they are more technical experts vs. leaders, managers or Commanders. It depends on whether you want to be responsible, or want to be an SME. If you want to be a leader, then you want to be an Officer. If you want to be a subject matter or technical expert, and generally not the responsible officer, then that is a warrant officer. My vote would be Officer. I suspect Warrant Officers will say otherwise...

I spent 4 years an enlisted guy... SGT, before I went to OCS in 1984-85.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 7:05 AM

2015-06-22T07:05:23-04:00

I definitely agree with both officers who have posted. I am SGT with a B.A. and a Master's degree and have had opportunities to commission, but for me, it's a personality issue. I like to be with my Soldiers, and it's not about the money for me. I could, of course, make more money as an officer with my civilian education, but that's not what I'm after. Again, to reiterate these two gentlemen, it depends on what you want to do on a daily basis that should help you decide which route you want to go down. Best of luck on whichever path you choose!

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 7:23 AM

2015-06-22T07:23:15-04:00

Addressing the age portion of your concerns. There is a specific USNR DIRCOM program for SUPPO which you may find interesting given your current MOS. If you were to look into the DIRCOM program you would find that a large number of newly commissioned O-1's are prior service as well as near, if not older, than your current age. I personally know reserve O-1's who came into service at 40 and they integrate in perfectly fine. Because its the reserve side as well its assumed that you're more than your rank given relevant civilian work experience that many reservists bring to the table.

Mustangs, especially in the Navy, are very highly respected. As an older O-1E you are generally kept in high regard by the enlisted as you have been in their shoes and understand the unique challenges which face them. Senior officers will look to you for your experiences and maturity and there is certainly a certain bond that exists due to age. Last but not least you would be looked to by the non-prior/younger O-1's as a mentor who, due to being the same rank as them, is far more approachable and less scary than a Chief or a higher ranking O.

I think you should give it some thought and don't let the age issue affect you too much. If you're still looking to serve then you should be proud and own it in whatever capacity you choose.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 8:12 AM

2015-06-22T08:12:17-04:00

The reason I chose a unrestricted line commission over a warrant is because I wanted to Command at Sea. As far as being a "Butter Bar" the fact that I was prior and a Chief I did not have a problem with respect. I think in the end people really respect the person not just the rank.

I did wear my dress khakis a lot to meeting where people did not know me so they would see my ribbon bar because I was always asked to "play up" so sometimes O-6s would be like "who is this guy" but with my ribbons on they knew I was speaking from experience.

I am not sure I follow you on the pay issue a W-4 does not make as much as a O-4 plus if you stay to 30 there is a good chance you will retire as an O-5. So as a retired O-4 I make over $500 more a month in retirement pay then if I would have gone Warrant, if I would have stayed to 30 I would have made O-5 and that would have added another $600+ in retirement.

But in the end the decision between Warrant and Commission depends on a lot of things like what you want to do. As a Warrant or LDO you will stay in your field. Some of the most important people on the ships I served were the Warrants because hands down no one knew their job better. They were practitioners with decades under their belt in the job. That is where the respect come from not what bar you have on your uniform.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 22 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-06-22T10:18:49-04:00

I would focus less on the "respect" issue and more on what each does and how they fit into the big picture as COL Charles Williams stated.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Jun 22 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-06-22T10:43:37-04:00

As a Warrant, you'll not be commanding the way a Company Grade officer would. You're not likely to have to deal with Office Hours. You're also not likely to get the big picture, but you don't generally get that below Field Grade, anyway.

I think it really boils down to service. If you want to stay Marine Corps, where people understand you, take the warrant. At 35, being an O-1 really isn't an issue, because you have a rack of fruit salad to show you're no boot. Word will also get around that you were a Marine, which will command respect. In any other service, you'll have to learn the culture. In a non-sea-service, you'll have to learn the culture AND the language.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 11:08 AM

2015-06-22T11:08:11-04:00

I can only speak to my experience with the Army, but I spent 7 years as an enlisted man and NCO on Active Duty before taking a break in service to earn a Masters degree and accept a Direct Commission as an O-2E. I do not regret this move at all. I have been very well received, and as others have said, word got around quickly that I was an NCO before becoming an Officer. With that in mind, I feel as though I am treated as a respected colleague by both NCOs and Officers. Indeed, I have had quite a few Junior Enlisted, Junior NCOs, and Junior Officers come to me to get insight into my career thus far, to see if they can glean any useful information to further their own careers.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 12:09 PM

2015-06-22T12:09:47-04:00

So in the Army we like to distinguish the difference between generalists and specialists when referring to Officers vs. Warrant Officers. There is also a third distinction in the Army when you consider functional area officers. They are also specialists and experts in their field but their knowledge is based more upon study and theory while technical WOs usually rely upon experience (as the technical schools for us are generally lacking).

If I had cared about money, I would have taken the risk to become an Officer and try for an FA. However, money is not the reason why I joined, stayed beyond my first enlistment or applied to be a WO.

Response by CWO2 John Markiewicz made Jun 22 at 2015 12:30 PM

2015-06-22T12:30:16-04:00

I made Warrant and later CWO2 in the USN after a tour in-country RVN where I earned the Combat Action Ribbon and served a tour as W1 onboard an Aircraft Carrier & a tour on Guam as a CWO2 before I resigned my commission and reverted to Senior Chief Radioman where I rode submarines for the rest of my Naval Career. In my day the Warrants never went to permanent Warrant or Chief Warrant, but always retained their permanent Enlisted Grade and Rating as their permanent rank/grade. Had I continued as an Officer, I was eligible for selection to CWO3 and was also going before the Selection Board for Limited Duty Officer. My reasons for reverting were many, a few general things like always being a Junior Officer and many assignments as SLJ (Sh**y Little Jobs) Officer, and an attitude by the bureaucratic detailers that a single Warrant/Chief Warrant was going to spend the rest of his career overseas at isolated duty stations because the more choice assignments needed to be reserved for the married with family types. There were also a few personal specific issues which affected my decision that need not be mentioned here which involved a lack of respect from a number of regular Mid-level & Senior Officers in the chain of command for Warrant/Chief Warrant Officers and, to some degree, for Vietnam Combat Veterans that existed at the time.

I had no regrets for reverting because I found that as a Senior Chief in the Submarine Service I had much more responsible assignments and a great deal more respect from both those above and below me in rank/grade than I ever had from the Officers above me in my assignments as a Warrant/Chief Warrant Officer, though I found out that the reversion from Chief Warrant to Senior Chief kept me from ever achieving another promotion in the Navy since it was viewed as a major negative by selection boards. As it turned out, when I was ultimately disability Retired, I applied to and was approved by the Secretary of the Navy to retire as a CWO2 (which was about $50 a month more than as a Senior Chief Radioman. The point to all this is that you need to decide what you really want before you jump into it because whatever you decide will affect your career, positively or negatively, from that point forward.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Jun 22 at 2015 12:49 PM

2015-06-22T12:49:16-04:00

You might want to check with Manpower to get a little more help in answering your question. Not sure what the "pipeline" is for a 3002 v. 3010. Taking a look at available spots for a new 3010 (WO) may offer some dynamic and very unique opportunities. The career path of a 3002 (2ndLt) offers a predictable path.

If you're trying to avoid "butter bars," I'd say "get over." The first time anyone sees your ribbon rack resume (and, presumably, a few grey hairs), they'll know you're a mustang. Either way, congratulations on this next step in your career!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-06-22T18:47:17-04:00

It all comes down to which you would prefer.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 5:48 AM

2015-06-23T05:48:39-04:00

As an O-1E with a rack of medals and some warfare quals, everyone would know where you started from. As for which to choose, it depends on the job you want.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 5:25 PM

2015-06-23T17:25:17-04:00

I hit a crossroads at 8 years in the Army, as a SFC, I had the SPO MAJ and the SPO CW4 confront me and tell me that I was wasting my talents as a NCO and that I had to either choose between becoming a Warrant Officer or a O-Grade Officer. When I asked about Commisisoning Ordnance and I was told that it wasn't 100% guaranteed, that sealed the deal for me. I fast tracked as an NCO, but being a Warrant Officer has been the best decision in my career. I get to interact and mentor the junior enlisted, NCO's and Junior Officers all while being the technical and logistics advisor to XO's, Command Teams, DCO's and BN and BDE Commanders. Could I command a unit, or work staff planning, yes, but that wasn't my aspiration. Speaking for the Army only, Warrant Officers are expected to be SME's and leaders of troops. Times are changing and we have to adapt. Is it the norm for a Warrant Officer to Command, no, but we have to be ready if we get the call.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 24 at 2015 12:30 AM

2015-06-24T00:30:05-04:00

I'd hate to know the Marines better to answer this intelligently. In the Army, I can say that it would greatly depend on the individual. Some people are born diplomats, people persons, and politicians. Then there was me. By the time I was a crusty NCO neck deep in broken helicopters, I would have preferred to be a walking warrant. Aviation gets in your blood and the worst thing you will ever do to a crewchief is pull them from working on their precious aircraft. I had an AWESOME crewdog go to OCS and he got to stay in the aviation world. The lack of getting down and dirty, covered in JP8 and oil, and having his hands all mutilated from maintenance made him miserable. A great maintenance senior warrant in aviation will make a Squadron Commander's life happy. A Squadron Commander who insists on grabing the reins of maintenance and disregards the maintainer's knowledge is going to retire as a LTC. Are you more of a technical SME? Rule #1 of effective leadership.....know thyself.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 12:12 PM

2015-06-24T12:12:12-04:00

Options: 2d LT for 2 years, Warrant for 17.

Response by SSG Donald Mceuen made Jun 24 at 2015 12:29 PM

2015-06-24T12:29:56-04:00

My mothers husband took the warrent and he loved it.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 24 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-06-24T12:53:49-04:00

List the top 5 criteria for your transition from left to right.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-06-24T13:57:11-04:00

I was in your shoes, but in the AF (where my decision was commission or not.....no warrant option without changing branches....and I like my job). I got commissioned a month before I turned 35, with 14 years TIS and as an E-7. The transition from E-7 to O-1 (and now to O-2) was very easy for a few reasons. #1 - The Air Force views SNCOs as mentors to company grade officers....moving from mentor to mentee is easy. #2 - I stayed in the same work center. Everyone there already understood that I know what I am talking about (although they did give me crap for being a butter bar and told me that "In my experience" had to leave my vocabulary until I pinned on Capt).

To better answer your question......it depends on what you want to do. Do you enjoy your work? Do you want to keep doing it? If "yes, yes", you should probably go Warrant. Do you want to have a chance to influence the direction of your folks? And by that I mean, do you want to be able to influence your unit's training by advocating for dollars and training opportunities? If the answer is yes to that, commissioned may be the better choice.

And, before you say "you are Air Force, you don't have warrant officers, how would you know?" I have spent my entire career working directly with the Army and I have some experience working with Marine Corps ANGLICO teams. I have worked with warrant and commissioned officers in aviation and fire support for about 15 years. I cannot speak to other disciplines, though.

Response by LCDR Bruce Cooley made Jun 24 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-06-24T14:03:54-04:00

I went commissioned after 12 years, and have not regretted it. Your responsibilities are similar up to O-2, but then you're given more of a sphere of influence as a commissioned officer than as a 'subject matter' officer (Warrant). It greatly depends on what you want to do with the rest of your career.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 3:48 PM

2015-06-24T15:48:36-04:00

Being a former Warrant Officer (2000-2005), and now being a commissioned officer (2005-present), all active U.S. Army, it boils down to personal preference. I wanted to lead Soldiers and fly helicopters. My ability to do this solely as a warrant was very diminished. I chose leadership opportunities over just being a "pure Aviator". Promotion potential was better as a commissioned officer as well. My two cents.

MAJ McMillan
AH-64D Pilot
U.S. Army

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:05 PM

2015-06-24T17:05:37-04:00

COL Williams nailed it. I crossed over from E to O at 39 1/2 years old and after 10 years of combined Active/Reserve with a large gap in service in between. I brought the NCO leadership perspective and elevated to more operational and strategic awareness. Everywhere I've been, even as an Ensign, I have been given the respect of a seasoned professional and that was from being deployed working for a Navy O-6 as an Ensign and a USMC O-7 as a LTJG. In addition to the leadership/SME question, you may also want to consider how much longer you plan to serve. You’ll be past the single-bar ranks soon enough.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:15 PM

2015-06-24T17:15:58-04:00

So I went the commission route after 14 years of enlisted service. I was 38 at the time of commissioning. It has been both rewarding and a headache at the same time. But I wouldn't change it for the world. If you want to make a difference and a decent retirement commission

Response by LT Charles (Chuck) McCoy made Jun 24 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-06-24T17:19:07-04:00

F.y.i. Navy Warrants are also Technical Experts that is their purpose no different from the Army. The Navy also has Limited Duty Officers who are Line Officers (LDO) with Technical Expertise in the same fields as Warrant Officers as well. Both come from Enlisted Ranks. I was a CWO, and later an LDO.

Response by CMSgt Ernest Walker made Jun 24 at 2015 5:34 PM

2015-06-24T17:34:24-04:00

Go commissioned and stay as long as they'll let you. Good chance you'll make O-5 and retire at more than a CW-4. The Air Force dropped the Warrant Officer program in the 1950's or I would have applied for it. Stayed enlisted an retired as an E-9.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-06-24T17:54:05-04:00

Being an 0-1E vs 0-1 is different. My mustang buddies have loved the transition. Most of them prior E-6s. The "butter bar" is a tongue in cheek reference to lack of experience. You can be an 0-1 without being a "butter bar". Attitude can make the difference.

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-06-24T18:05:57-04:00

SSgt,

There are some very, very good points and I commend you for looking at your career from many different angles. I agree and align with what CW4 Johnson says the most. In my humble opinion, the reason why I or anyone should continue to serve is to make a difference, to lead, and when called...to fight and win.

Age shouldn't be an issue (at TBS) unless you show up unprepared. It's 4 months for WOs/CWOs and although it will be mentally and physically challenging, there were quite a few of us over the age of 35. Forget about the money, prestige, retirement, et cetera. Do you want more responsibility or not? Do you have a passion to be a SME within your MOS in the WO/CWO ranks or do you want the chance to command at the Plt level and beyond (although in some branches and MOS, a WO/CWO may get a chance to command)?

Either way, the first question I think you need to ask yourself is "Am I ready to be a Marine Officer?". The Officership piece can be difficult at times and you have to realize early on that you are not one of the guys anymore.

Please feel free to message me with any questions.
Gunner

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 6:23 PM

2015-06-24T18:23:45-04:00

Have been both Warrant and LDO (Navy). Both great programs, but with Warrant in the Navy you tend to be limited in the jobs you perform (helps develop thise strong technical experts). Personally I like the broader spectrum of jobs available as an LDO. Good luck to you.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 6:36 PM

2015-06-24T18:36:42-04:00

Current commissioned officer, prior enlisted. When enlisted see your good conduct medal they immediately know, and the respect will be there, unless you let that commission go to your head and start thinking you're better. I love being a "mustang" and my enlisted appreciate that. I mentor many of them into pursuing a commissions. I will become an O4 on Aug 1, and wouldn't change a thing! BTW...I'm in my 40's. Go for it brother!!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 9:56 PM

2015-06-24T21:56:54-04:00

I thought I had responded already, but don't see it...anyway, I was a prior service AD USMC NCO, had a large break in service went back into Guard for OCS. I commissioned at 36. There are a lot of older LTs/ CPTs in the Guard, so no worries there. The pay is great compared to enlisted scale, but the responsibility and extra time can be tough. Most enlisted guys who do not have a diamond or star just show up for drill, for the most part. As an "O" you have so many additional duties and your regular MOS, it can border on the absurd. As an Officer, you spend very little time around the troops, its usually spent doing paperwork, even in combat arms branches. The anecdotal story I tell to enlisted guys considering switching is about my first AT as a 2LT. They made me the XO and had to be the convoy commander for a 350 mile/ 5 state movement...little shock there. Good luck with your decision.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 1:07 AM

2015-06-25T01:07:57-04:00

As an Army Warrant Officer with 10 years Enlisted time I can say my suggestion is to go WO.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 10:13 AM

2015-06-25T10:13:30-04:00

I had a 15 year break in service and after completeing my Bachelors degree I decided to join the National Guard. I reenlisted as an E-4. Before I reached one year in I joined the OCS program and became an Officer. I was 38 years old when I commisioned.
The real question you need to ask yourself is do you want to lead troops or do you want to serve beside troops.
If the pay is all you're looking at, don't become an Officer, become a Warrant.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-06-25T12:50:00-04:00

I received a commission after 13 years of enlisted service. I suggest you look at the value of retirement points. Consider the rank you expect to attain by retirement and see for yourself which grade pays better. You will spend more years in retirement than you did in service.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 1:34 PM

2015-06-25T13:34:41-04:00

Commissioned life is more leadership and baby sitting, to include baby sitting the WO's, but the life style is much nicer too. WO's are "still treated as enlisted with an education" as I was enlightened to many years ago! Me personally...the DoD needs to get rid of the WO branch.

Let me add my disclaimer, I have nothing against any person, regardless or rank, branch, etc and the individuals choices. I was an enlisted soldier, an NCO before I chose to become a Commissioned Officer. I was married to a Warrant Officer...She was an E-8 prior and made the mistake of taking on the WO as the rank and branch does not have the same credibility as a Senior Enlisted or that of a Commissioned Officer.

Do yourself a favor, go the commissioned route.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-06-25T15:00:21-04:00

Personally, I don't think it matters which way you go unless you're looking at doing 30+ years in...both routes will provide you with multiple opportunities to lead, follow, or get out of the way! Rank merely holds what you are going to be responsible for, what you do with that is up to you. I've seen amazing leaders both as Warrants or as Commissioned (whether line, restricted line, or staff...). Understand you will be competing against your peers, the ones that are hungry and continue to sacrifice for the good of the service, with mentors and leaders that recognized them for that. There are only so many slots available. Me, I would look at what's available, what opportunities they open up at mid/late career, think seriously about where I'd like to be in 10-15 years. Warrant/LDO comes with a mandatory 8-year obligation, typical commission only comes with 5. How much time are you willing to be away? Warrant/LDO billets for the Navy at least are on the pointy tip of the spear, most at Sea in positions that leverage your experience, past, and general problem solving skills in addition to expertise in administration, procedural knowledge and tradition (you are EXPECTED to be the expert, know which manual governs, and provide always correct references!). Being a Junior Officer, you lose the pass as a Mustang, no matter which service you go to. There's nothing wrong with an O-1, they expect him to make mistakes, learn from them, and move on, sometimes expending great effort without much visible progress. As a prior enlisted, O-1E, they will expect more from you on all fronts. The big divergence occurs at around the company grade point. Selecting Warrant means you want the technical and administrative expertise with the opportunity to mentor and advise, but you will be limited in the large scale leadership/responsibility. Warrants, no matter how capable, cannot be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCOS), unless they convert to Line (does happen, but rather rare). Likewise, very few officers will get the opportunity to write the technical manuals for your area of expertise, but a Warrant will be asked for input to or review of these every time (smaller pool of qualified individuals). I wish you luck in obtaining either! Get out and Compete! If you really want it, don't get discouraged either if for some reason you don't get selected. Try and try again to grab your goals and RUN!

TLDR: Weigh your options, decide and act! Persevere to obtain your goals!

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-06-25T18:40:51-04:00

I agree with CW4 Collins. It's about what you want to do. Most warrents just love their career field and don't want to give it up. In the Navy, we have LDOs who wear the same standard ranks as regular officers. This makes the decision a little easier. I went full commission after 12 years enlisted service because I wanted to fly. I still got the respect of a seasoned sailor, but for me it was about realizing a dream. When you are doing what you love, everything else is icing.

Response by Capt Larry Goldfinger made Jun 27 at 2015 2:24 AM

2015-06-27T02:24:56-04:00

I take it you are both eligible and highly recommended for these programs. These alone only gets your application forwarded. Getting selected is a whole different story. As you know, the competition is extremely keen. Before you spend too much time choosing a path, you'll need to first get selected so go ahead and apply for both. If you get selected for only one of the two programs, the choice was made for you. If you are selected for both, accept the appointment of your choice. Good luck. Semper Fi!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2015 8:58 PM

2015-07-03T20:58:03-04:00

I commissioned as a SFC and I will say the sphere of influence a 2lt has compared to that of a SFC is MUCH smaller. That being said I also had the choice of putting in my packet for OCS or Warrant and in the end I chose commissioned officer.

I have been lucky enough to have spent the majority of my career at BN or below with no TRADOC (star MOS) but my next assignment was guaranteed to be at the division level (I did a drug deal to be a PLT SGT one more time for my last deployment instead of going to 1st CAV div HQ like I was supposed to. I love being a platoon sergeant) So I looked at my options. As a warrant officer I would be "stuck" in staff instead of leading and training Soldiers in a line company. As a commissioned (yes I know warrants are commissioned) officer I could be a PLT Leader, Co Commander then face the remaining 5'ish years stuck on a staff. I flat out love leading Soldiers, learning how to lead and mentoring and training troops. Unfortunately even on the enlisted side, once you hit SFC you're more than likely stuck on staff.

As far as respect and the perks of the job... who cares? Respect is always earned every time you PCS. Rank has a small part to play in that initially, but you can only BS someone for about 15 sec then you had better have something so substance to back it up otherwise, regardless of your rank, people will dismiss you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2015 10:32 PM

2015-07-03T22:32:26-04:00

After scrolling down the page and reading all the post. The responses on here are awesome and I think its great that we see both sides engaging in this post. As a Non-Commissioned Officer and from my perspective both are respected. It doesn't matter if you are on the W or O side of the house. Once your troops know you were prior enlisted, you will have earned their respect because they will know that you have been in their shoes before. But at the end of the day your troops will respect you for the person you are and the kind of leader you chose to be.

Just my $0.02

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 4 at 2015 7:52 PM

2015-07-04T19:52:11-04:00

I don't know any of the USMC requirements for becoming a WO, all of my experience is based on Army NG, that said, I have known a lot of enlisted people who have done both, known a couple of O's who went WO, and have yet to meet a WO who went O. The question is, do you want to remain in your field, or do you want to do something else? If the answer is something else, than go O. If the answer is continue doing in the field your in as technical expert, than you know the answer, go WO.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-07-05T20:17:34-04:00

I have been enlisted, warrant and I am commissioned officer. I am telling you because I am living it... COMMISSIONED OFFICER!

The whole mentality of respect is an enlisted fear because you dont want to let go of what you already busted your balls for and you feel that as a warrant you dont give it up as much VS looking at what you getting as commissioned officer which is like starting back again in kindergarden and now you will be the one enlisted talk about when they say that officers dont work.

Once you come in to the commissioned officer side and you see the amount of respect and responsibility besthow on your shoulders you will change your mind really quick. I dare and double dare anybody to tell me that I havent work my ass off. In fact I thought that I worked hard as a petty officer and a sergeant BUT in comparison with commanding over 400 Soldiers, all my years of enlistment were cake. As a warrant officer I was the SME so it was sorta easier, technically hard but easier.

Like you I was 11 yrs when I crossed over to warrant. Remember as a warrant you are a SME and thats great because you love what you do and thats all you do. HOWEVER as an officer you will do your specialty and then you can also do other things and better yet, you can have the honor of commanding. Warrants and enlisted can say all they like about been in charge of lots of people but being the commander its a whole different game. Also in ten yrs from now you might and probably will be tired of being the SME of the same thing... not as an officer, where there are so many opportunities to branch out to totally unrelated fields which I think keeps it very exciting and this was the second reason I jumped ship to the evil side of the Force... The Commissioned Officer Force!

Like you I am looking at 30 yrs so lets talk gravy... lets talk money. I will for sure make it to MAJ next year or the following. SO most likely at the rate that I am going I will be an O-5 when I retire. Brother just check the payscale... this just became a mute point and obvious to go officer.

If you fear the whole being a butter bar... stop having this chicken shit mentality and stop crying a river. You will be a butter bar for up to 2 yrs and so what. Its up to you to demand and earned respect. If your work ethic is in check, all your subordinates will know what they of the week it is. You have a freaking commission so act like you are a leader that is in the known and people will follow. You can expect to become a manager and a leader and not having to earn it... guess what? O-2 and O-1 is where you learn and made mistakes so when you become an O-3 you know whats going on.

You need to let go of that non-sense of the respect that you will loose and blah blah blah. Look at the end game... your retirement will be higher because you will have greater responsibility and more people depending on you.

If the respect or lack of respect of being a butter bar will be your decision breaking point I suggest you stay enlisted or warrant. I sure dont want anybody with that mentality wearing the ranks I wore with great pride and honor. I sure dont want anybody with that priority leading the best troops in the world...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 3:14 AM

2015-08-18T03:14:26-04:00

Warrant promotion are faster and it's more of a specialized field. It's the only way to go.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-08-20T14:34:43-04:00

I was 35 and an E-7 with 15 years when I got commissioned. This question has been asked a few times on here. I answer the same every time. Do you want to be able to influence the training and overall well-being of your men? To do that, go commissioned. Do you want to do your primary job and have heavy interaction with the guys who work for/with you? To do that, go warrant.

As a warrant officer, your influence, while more significant than the enlisted ranks, is more limited. As a commissioned officer, your interaction with the men will decrease significantly. It is the nature of the beast.

Being a butter bar at 15 years was no big deal. I have had the occasional "thanks LT" joke thrown my way when I disagree with someone, as well as the "you can no longer use the phrase 'in my edperience'." But, everyone recognizes that my knowledge, obtained through 15 years of doing this job, did not go away when my stripes came off and the bars went on.

Don't let promotion rates affect your decision.....because the promotion rate from CW-5 is zero, from O-5 it is infinitely higher. Don't let time in service drive your decision because your clock starts over when you get commissioned. The only factor that should play into this is what you want to do with your career.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 27 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-08-27T14:18:16-04:00

Warrant Officer as there will be a lot less hassles.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 10:23 PM

2015-09-03T22:23:08-04:00

I have always considered Warrant Officers as a more technical or specialized officer, that has the best of both worlds as you mentioned. A Commissioned officer has, at least to me, a more political position.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Sep 7 at 2015 8:01 AM

2015-09-07T08:01:11-04:00

Warrant Officer without a doubt.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 4:35 PM

2015-09-10T16:35:50-04:00

Warrant.

Response by CWO2 John Markiewicz made Sep 17 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-09-17T12:50:01-04:00

Disadvantage to Chief Warrant is that in the eyes of some Commanding Officers you are always the Shitty Little Jobs (SLJ) Officer and will always be the Junior Officer in the Ward Room. I recommend you go the regular officer option. The enlisted will still know that you are former enlisted and you will have the opportunity to achieve a Mid Level or Senior Officer Rank after a few years as a Junior Officer.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Oct 29 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-10-29T13:02:00-04:00

Go for the straight commission. It might not be as pretigious initially, but you'll have more opportunity there.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2015 7:25 PM

2015-10-29T19:25:44-04:00

Its a personal decision; and even though I am commissioned, it think warrants have advantages that commissioned officers don't have such as what you say; promotions are less competitive, you can also stay in until 60 and not have to serve in the gray are.. (although if you are a mustang commissioned officer, you probably can still do it anyway) You can stay with your field of expertise rather than having to be a generalist. I don't think prestige wise there is that much of a difference. In the long run, look at the specific jobs in each situation you are offered and ask yourself what do you like better.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 3:34 PM

2015-12-15T15:34:19-05:00

I became a butter bar at the age of 39 (14 days shy of my 40th BD) after 11 years of enlisted service. I never had an issue with respect. Due mostly to the fact that I was in the guard and everyone knew that I had been a good NCO. But, yeah, if you don't want to have to deal with stress and politics WO is definitely the way to go. Although, from my experience, it is pretty tough to make it to CW4. Most of the WOs I have known topped out at CW3.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 12:00 AM

2016-01-19T00:00:38-05:00

I've put a lot of thought into this same question, since I'm no longer applying to the Warrant Officer program and following through with my degree for a full commission. End goal is one thing; prestige is a bit different. I've known officers that commissioned at 12 years and never made it past Captain. I've known LDOs that've gotten a full commission to become full bird Colonels who took the route of Warrant Officer first. Depends on what you want to do. If you're great at your job and want to learn and apply knowledge to the intricacies that commanders have to deal with at Company levels and higher, go Warrant. You'll be on that track for the rest of your career, with no deviations, unless extreme situations arise that'd require your services elsewhere. In the case of an unrestricted line officer, you've got some hurdles to go through: going through the same stressful physical and mental tests men and women more than 10 years younger than you are going through that make boot camp look like a joke. Every mustang officer I've interacted with says "It's worth it." That said, you're not guaranteed a job unless you have a specific track to go with (naval aviator, but we're both past the waiver point). You could get stuck as a logistics/supply officer slot when all you might have wanted to do is Infantry. Either way, every officer that I knew who took the plunge from enlisted to WO/O has said "best decision of my life". The better life standpoint is subjective; you could be a CWO5 advising at HQMC and dealing with other officers who don't listen to you, or a LtCol/Col commanding a battalion/regiment having to hand out NJPs left and right. What I mean by this is where do you think you'll gain more satisfaction in your work? What type of responsibility do you want to have? Are you worried about the perks? I wouldn't be. Lend your aim to where you'll think you'll make the best impact, and not be concerned with the rank you've yet to earn.
There's a quote that I'm not seeing on that coin you've got posted: "God made the Warrant Officer to give the junior enlisted someone to look up to, the senior enlisted someone to envy, the junior officer someone to tolerate, and the senior officer someone to respect."

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 2:41 AM

2016-01-19T02:41:49-05:00

Warrant all the way

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 3:58 PM

2016-01-22T15:58:40-05:00

Here's something else to consider: Marine Warrant Officers are drilled into from day one that he/she is a Marine Officer, and is ultimately a leader. There is a difference in the scale of what a Warrant would have command/leadership of. I've been led by several CWOs over the course of my career who've had a significant impact on how I see things, how I interact and engage with people, and how I take information and leverage it towards accomplishing my assigned mission. Marine Warrant/Chief Warrant Officers do and have commanded detachments, teams, platoons and even companies; while a commissioned officer is normally used in this capacity scale-wise, Marine Warrant/Chief Warrant Officers are sometimes used due to the technical expertise required to hold that position which a regular commissioned officer would normally not be able to attain. Here are some examples: Marine Chief Warrant Officers have been used to have responsibility over an entire motor pool, as well as the funds required to maintain and equip vehicles for mission requirements. They've been used out forward as HUMINT detachment commanders. Army Warrant Officers have been used as ATLs/TLs (at times) on OD-As and TLs of EOD detachments. In any case, they'd hold ultimate responsibility for the accomplishment of the assigned mission.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 1:00 PM

2016-09-15T13:00:32-04:00

It really depends on how you are planning to branch.
In the Army MI would be ideal for a WO appointment, along with a couple of other branches.
If you are looking for something a little more advanced ( PSYOPS, SF, CA, etc), A direct Commission would be the answer.
* The butter-bar stage goes by quick. Mine did leading a DET in the middle of nowhere in Eastern Panama.
And most Joes will appreciate that you did prior enlisted time.

Did it myself for 13 years.

Good luck.

Response by SPC Justin Berry made Sep 29 at 2016 11:56 PM

2016-09-29T23:56:11-04:00

Neither

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 9 at 2016 7:57 PM

2016-12-09T19:57:52-05:00

You won't be a butter bar long, 1st Lt then Captain should follow inside of 4 years. Three of My friends had gone from enlisted to 2Lt and ended up retiring as Full Colonels. When they became 2Lts it was apparent they weren't youngsters, their experience showed well and they were good Officers. Two of those were active duty, one combine active duty and Reserves. Warrant Officer is kind of in between both and I guess not a bad place to be either. A WO still get uniforms issued like an enlisted man but get Military courtesies as an Officer.

Response by 1SG Dennis Jones made Dec 22 at 2016 12:43 PM

2016-12-22T12:43:13-05:00

Definitely Warrant Officer if the position is available

Response by CWO3 Bill Carter made Mar 1 at 2017 9:35 AM

2017-03-01T09:35:39-05:00

Chief Warrant Officer----Knowledge equals respect!

Response by Sgt Shawn Irish made Oct 8 at 2017 7:37 PM

2017-10-08T19:37:24-04:00

Ive known many "gunners" they are creme d'creme...they know where the bodies are buried...and ive never seen a butter bar dumb enough to ever question one or any "0" whatever

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2017 5:12 AM

2017-11-01T05:12:50-04:00

I can't speak to USMCR, but the choice depends mostly on your MOS and if you want to stay in it. Supply Officers (3002) are regular, but don't they now have a Supply Ops (3010) WO billet? A regular is supposed to be a generalist. A WO/CWO a specialist. If you have to make a lateral move that means a lot of catching up, because you're expected to have very solid MOS credibility from day one as a WO. There would be even more catch up to transfer to another service though, plus the possibility of a new MOS there. Can't speak to other services either, but first question is as a Gunny do you want to stay Marine or does it matter? Most WO/CWOs in USMC get Platoon Commander jobs, and occasionally Company CO slots, but depending on the MOS it could all be staff work. There's really not that much difference in lifestyle in junior officer ranks between regular and warrant. The pay is a wash. Mandatory retirement is based on years of commissioned service, but you are correct about the age 60 requirement. With 2 degrees you should consider direct commissioning programs in USMC, unless you are set on being a CWO. My advice would be stay Marine, but I'm naturally biased as a Marine. You could probably retire as a LtCol with 25 years left - plus or minus one grade. Feel free to drop a line, as I'd be glad to help fill in any blanks on warrants in general. Best wishes.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Jan 14 at 2018 8:10 AM

2018-01-14T08:10:26-05:00

Go Warrant and don't look back !

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2018 4:35 AM

2018-03-07T04:35:04-05:00

Go get some Helicopter time, and apply for the Army's WOFT.
There are WOFT Study Guides, and see the You Tube videos titled 'Greenbaggers' which entails how to go about applying.
If possible, go & get a Class One (1) Flight Physical on base, and your Degree transcripts.
Then, proceed to a civilian flight school and pick-up some helicopter instruction.
This is expensive, I know; BUT; it will pay for itself in due course, and it will also show the WOFT Selection Board that you are and were motivated to go and seek training on your own first. In addition, this lessens your chance of washing-out.
If flying helicopters isn't your thing, then the Army also has Warrant Officers in a very broad range cadre' , and they even have more watercraft than the US Navy, and more aircraft than the US Air Force.
As a Warrant Officer, you may be assigned some smaller extra details, but you won't get bogged down in the bureaucracy and politics of the Commissioned Officers!
As defense systems become more complex, the Warrant Officer will be needed more than ever in most branches of service.
Even the USAF, which closed it's Warrant Officer Corps down in 1959 is now seriously looking at re-starting the same, and having Civilian trained Pilots enter mission flight training, thus skipping UPT. But, over the years, the USAF missed out on using some incredible talent amongst the Enlisted Ranks who had an average of 2 years of CCAF, and paid for their own advanced FAA Certificates and Ratings. Many of us even had more broad-range experience than the UPT Grads.
The US Navy had a Warrant Officer Pilot program, but I believe that it closed 2 years ago.
I served in the USAF from 1973-1990, retiring as a Service-Connected Disabled Veteran.
I never went beyond SSgt, and was also a FCF Flight Engineer on the* C-130B, E & H. (*2,000+ hours) I was also qualified in 25 different makes and models of civilian aircraft, and participated in the USAF Auxiliary (Civil Air Patrol) as a Search & Rescue Pilot.
While in the CAP, I was a 1st Lieutenant, and got bogged down with Squadron Operations duties, so I took a voluntary downgrade to Chief Warrant Officer and from that point on was dedicated only to fly training and search missions.
& BTW; whilst the USAF always pushed 'involvement in the community', my CAP time didn't seem to matter...
The other BIG problem right no is that Freemasonry is subverting the talents and dedication of many good people who are non-Masons. That if a given, and until this mess is cleaned-up in ALL branches of the military, don't look for fair and equal treatment.
Best wishes to you & other like you. Think Warrant Officer, do Warrant Officer, and stay Warrant Officer!

Response by CWO2 Richard Rose made May 27 at 2018 12:30 AM

2018-05-27T00:30:09-04:00

I continuously see references that Chief Warrant Officer is not an officer or commissioned officer. I had too many years of active duty to go the LDO route. Navy CWOs are discharged from the Navy upon commissioning and become permanent officers. LDOs are or were in my day temporary officers until they are promoted to O-3E. CWOs were not to be treated as junior officers with large collateral duty assignments. Unfortunately, too many URL Officers view the CWO as not being a real officer. I educated a number of JOs and enlisted where the Navy CWO fit in. I had a C.O. that was a Commander LDO wanted me to go LDO which would have meant promotion to LTJG (02-E) I had 22 years in at time and besides I could take LDO billets up to 0-5 if the gaining command would accept me. Unfortunately, being a single parent and health issues made my decision to retire at almost 24 years. As a communicator I always was assigned to increasingly difficult jobs.
I do believe the CWO promotions are unfair when a peer LDO will promote to O-3 by the time CWO-3. I retired and have not regretted it.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2018 7:11 AM

2018-10-30T07:11:16-04:00

I had to make this decision about a year ago. Ultimately, It came down to what did I want to do with my Career. My dream is to fly. So the clear path to becoming a SME in that field was with no doubt to become a Warrant. Also, I have found pleasure in being part of small brotherhood type groups and this is what I believe the Warrant Officer Cohort is all about. I got selected 6 months ago and now start school in one month! Good luck to you all who are making this same decision today. You can’t go wrong either way.

“Strength in Knowledge”

Response by CPT William Jones made Jul 7 at 2019 12:04 AM

2019-07-07T00:04:49-04:00

Army commissioned officers are subjected to reduction in forces (RIF) for the convience of the government thousands after both RVN and southwest Asia Warrants cannot be RIFed

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2020 9:14 AM

2020-01-27T09:14:44-05:00

Well, from my experience, I joined the cohort at 45. I went from “Hardcore Specialist Mafia” to E-7 Maintenance Platoon Sargent. From E-4 to E-7 it took me about 5 years, I was always first on the list because I literally maxed out almost everything except the time in grade, which resets every time you ascend. When I became E-7, I stayed there for only 4 months before joining the WOC program and that is THE BEST decision I have made in my military career. One small detail: Warrant Officers can command units, it is on the regulation. So, as far as respect, that is something you earn. People will look at you differently and they will also expect a lot from you, enlisted, NCO’s, Officers and Warrant Officers as well. So, the decision is yours.... ARMY STRONG

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2021 3:24 AM

2021-08-25T03:24:49-04:00

I believe the difference between warrent and officer is the same as the need and the jock in high school. One truly cares about the job enough to master it.The other enjoys the perks of being on top.