The military and politicians need to give the same credence to our respective Oaths of Service/Office

2015-02-09T13:13:04-05:00

Each of us in the military has sworn an oath of service, and though the officer oath of service is slightly different, the tone and the principle is the same. The common thread is the support and defense of the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The enlisted oath reads:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

We, as members of the military, understand that we are obligated to accomplish our missions in accordance with our lawful orders, and in a manner consistent with our national ethics. We also understand that we are not required to follow illegal or unconstitutional orders that would serve to act contrarily to our Constitutional principles.

It has been my experience that those in the military remember their oath of service, and hold dear their responsibility to defend and support the Constitution. It seems clear however, that our politicians, generally speaking, do not share that same reverence to their oath of office. Members of Congress swear this Oath:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”

A review of the enumerated powers granted to the federal government in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution, reveals that the federal government has FAR exceeded it's Constitutional boundaries, and does so on a daily basis by politicians who ALL have sworn the above oath of office. Some of these politicians ardently defend the First Amendment (a good thing), while incessantly trying to undermine the Second Amendment through laws and regulations. Others clearly swear their oath of office even though they see the Constitution as a flawed document that can be changed through court actions, through laws passed by Congress, or worse, through regulations created by bureaucrats.

Such actions serve to undermine the credibility of their oath to support and defend the Constitution, and also their credibility in the eyes of those in the military who DO take seriously our oath of Service.

How seriously do you take your oath, and do you feel politicians lose credibility when they violate their oaths?

Response by SPC Charles Griffith made Feb 9 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-02-09T13:28:05-05:00

I take my oath Very serious I have been out 20+ years and in my opinion it is still as valid as the day I took it. I wish our leaders would at least uphold their's while in office.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 9 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-02-09T13:28:16-05:00

Years ago I read a novel (Science Fiction) called Starrise at Corrivale by Diane Duane, which talked about Oaths of Service.

http://www.amazon.com/Starrise-Corrivale-Drive-Harbinger-Trilogy/dp/ [login to see] /ref=sr_1_41?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=1-41&keywords=diane+duane

The protagonist is drummed out of military service, however he is later confronted by a government official and asked a very simple question.

"Has whoever you swore your oath to, released you from it?"

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 9 at 2015 1:35 PM

2015-02-09T13:35:57-05:00

That oath still lingers in my memory. It is very compelling. Although I hold an Honorable Discharge releasing me from my obligation to obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over me, I still feel bound to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic...

It's a choice.

It's a choice that leaves me in a predicament.

SSG Gerhard S. is correct. The growth of government and its unconstitutional intrusion into aspects of our private lives, far beyond anything warranted or authorized by the Constitution, is prima facie evidence (apparent on this face) that those serving in elected office are not in compliance with their oaths.

The fact that this situation not only continues, but also continues to be exacerbated by the continuing actions of our elected officials is prima facie evidence that I and others who value the Constitution are failing in our obligation to protect, preserve, and defend it.

Something must change.

Sadly, I live in California where the weather is mild and the politics little resemble the traditions and moral compass that made America great. It's representatives in Congress lead the charge to undermine the Constitution. Nancy Pelosi laughs at any suggestion that her legislative goals lie far outside Constitutional limits. California senators are infamous for their assaults on individual rights and liberties. All are elected and reelected with little doubt until they retire or die, and are replaced by clones who, if anything, are even more pernicious.

It is frustrating, to say the least.

Sometimes, I wish I were ignorant. Perhaps I could find bliss. Sadly, I am a student of history, the law, and the Constitution. I love what America once was. I believe completely in the rule of law. I am tempted to worship the Constitution.

How can I remain mute and honor my oath? I can't.

I suppose that I am failing inasmuch as "they" haven't yet carted me off to a camp somewhere.

If my voice one day disappears from these discussions and my short stories and blog postings disappear from the Internet, you can be sure that I will either be dead or incarcerated. In either case, it will be with a smile permanently affixed to my face...

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Feb 9 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-02-09T13:50:07-05:00

I took my oath when I was 17 years old - (43 years ago) and it is part of who I am today. I was involved in 3 wars during my time in service, actually two major wars, and one ass kicking (Granada). I served under pro military and anti military leadership during my 20 years in the Army. I never violated my oath and I still haven't today. While I am much more unforgiving and more vocal about our government today than I was while serving, I would pick up arms again in a heart beat to defend this country. Do I feel politicians honor or obey their oaths? Absolutely not. Some politicians seem to believe in the constitution more than others, but I haven't seen one do more than talk (mostly to either get elected or reelected). I personally believe it's time to use the 2nd amendment for what it was intended.

Response by Cpl Caleb Humig made Feb 9 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-02-09T14:16:30-05:00

Depends on the politician, though Tom Cotton is about the only one I could name that I think takes said oath that seriously.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-02-09T14:31:55-05:00

Hell no! The majority of the men & women who join the service do it to serve their country. The majority of the politicians do it for the money.

It's the exact inverse for each: the military doesn't make much money and politicians don't serve their country - just themselves.

There are a few exceptions, but only a few.

Response by SGT Marika Waiters made Feb 9 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-02-09T14:40:42-05:00

I highly doubt the majority of our elected officials even know any of the words of their oath, and so don't bat an eyelash when they've consistently broken it

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Feb 9 at 2015 3:34 PM

2015-02-09T15:34:28-05:00

I think that oaths in general don't mean as much anymore. Back in the day a person's honor was everything, to the point where you had duels if someone insulted it. I think honor is still important, but it has different meanings.

This is part of the lack of knowledge of civics in our country. 77% of Millennials don't know one of the senators from their state. When it comes to citizenship exams, the average american fails while the immigrants who take them average 97.5%.

This all comes back to the history and meaning by oaths.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2015 3:38 PM

2015-02-09T15:38:47-05:00

The answer is self-evident. Very few politicians give the same credenice to the oath as members of the military. Can you imagine the strength of this nation if they did?

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Feb 9 at 2015 6:26 PM

2015-02-09T18:26:07-05:00

I'd say most military members place heavy emphasis on it. I can't speak for sure to the emphasis of politicians, but appearances are that there is a difference. Even for miltary members I am frequently disappointed in how few people have actually read the document they have sworn to support and defend.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 9 at 2015 9:41 PM

2015-02-09T21:41:21-05:00

I've read this thread before I posted and I'm posting nothing new, ground breaking. I'm like everyone else. I've taken my oath seriously. Even retired, it's still with me.

Politicians take an oath, but they forget whom they serve. Soon the money and power goes to their heads. If only there was term limits on them then maybe they could focus on the job at hand. Maybe if their benefits were made to match us normal people they might look harder at ours. If you want make money, congress is the place to be.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Feb 10 at 2015 7:21 AM

2015-02-10T07:21:00-05:00

I retired in 1995 and my oath is still a part of me. It is always close. Whenever I talk to a young person about the service I always explain to them that when you take that oath it goes straight to your heart. It's nothing to take lightly and it doesn't belong to anyone else. You make to yourself and your God.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Feb 10 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-02-10T13:00:57-05:00

The irony is, SSG Gerhard S., the oath taken by Members of Congress is exactly the same oath as taken by commissioned officers. If currently serving officers (and enlisted personnel for that matter) of any and all of the various branches of service, behaved as do certain Members of Congress, it's quite likely they'd be spending a portion of their lives at the United States Disciplinary Barracks on Fort Leavenworth, KS!

Response by COL Quentin C. made Feb 18 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-02-18T22:42:48-05:00

I took both my enlistment and officer oath to heart! To the war fighters that have taken the oath it means something to them, a bond with their brothers and sisters in arms. I remember my Drill Sergeants stating to us on our first meeting that we would never forget their names as long as we lived and that our commitment to our country would always burn in our souls.

As for the politicians it just means they made it to the big time, they get their paycheck, full pension and medical for doing as little as possible. There may be some would take it very seriously, but they are the minority.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Feb 19 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-02-19T12:14:00-05:00

If they do, they (or at least a bunch of them) don't take it to heart . . .

Response by SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham made Feb 19 at 2015 1:47 PM

2015-02-19T13:47:31-05:00

To give credence, one has to have credibility... MOST in uniform earn that daily by upholding their oath. Politicians are much more public and we can see that MOST of them do not earn credibility or even respect the offices they are appointed or elected to hold.
Sorry... the answer is "no".

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 19 at 2015 5:18 PM

2015-02-19T17:18:34-05:00

nope....sure don't....I would like to say both sides, which in some cases I do believe that especially with pork projects.
But lately, I don't think I have seen as many scandals coming from the democrats as I've seen now, and none of the Television stations cover it.....and I remember Watergate hahahahaha

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-02-19T20:04:50-05:00

HELL NO! For the majority of Politicians...it's a Photo Op!

Response by SSgt Thomas L. made Feb 19 at 2015 10:23 PM

2015-02-19T22:23:43-05:00

I take my oath very seriously, but it appears as though I have a different interpretation of the Constitution than most of my fellow veterans. I have no problem with that, as interpreting the Constitution is a complex thing that some very intelligent people have devoted their entire lives to. For me, the preamble says it all. It lays out the intent of the document in plain terms. If a law does not further perfect the union, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, further the cause of justice, or help ensure domestic tranquility, then that law is unconstitutional. The rest is just details.

As for the service of politicians, I really believe that the vast majority of them start their careers with earnest intentions. In a way, we are very lucky in that we don't have to deal with the process of making laws... we just follow them and carry out orders. Law makers have to do some pretty idiotic stuff just to keep their jobs... but I believe that the vast majority, if not all of them, believe that they are doing for the greater good, even if the facts indicate that's not the case. By all accounts, law making is a very soul-crushing and dirty process. As the saying goes, if you love laws or sausage, don't watch either one being made.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Feb 24 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-02-24T18:52:51-05:00

They are held to different standards and dare I say it is a travesty that those who command our military hold themselves to a lower standard than our men and women who wear the uniform.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2015 10:28 PM

2015-02-24T22:28:08-05:00

My oath is taken seriously. I will say most politicians are beyond lost. But that's also not to say the enumerated powers are themselves complete. There are implied powers necessary to the execution of the enumerated. But it's splitting hairs. Most politicians are lost and don't have a clue to what it says.

Response by SN Greg Baylor made Feb 25 at 2015 6:27 AM

2015-02-25T06:27:02-05:00

I am an Oathkeeper. While I do not believe in a military state, I do believe that in some ways, a former military person is better qualified to hold public office because of his/her attitude of respect toward the oath.

Response by MSgt Stephanie McCalister made Feb 25 at 2015 7:10 AM

2015-02-25T07:10:59-05:00

As a dual national citizen from birth (Child of an American Parent born abroad), I had to give up my British citizenship upon taking my Oath of Enlistment into the Army. It was personally heart wrenching, but an example of my commitment to my Oath.

Later, during my AF years, a little skirmish arose down in the Falklands, and there was a question which side the US might take ... and for the first time, I knew how my confederate civil war ancestor may have felt ... but I knew at that point, my Oath was paramount.

I always thought through my reenlistments as I took the Oath each time, to the point that once, given the CIC in office at the time, I actually paused & had to think when I got to the part 'I will obey the orders of the President ...' I had the officer swearing me in, and the officer witnessing my reenlistment, both leaning in wondering if I was going to complete taking the oath! It seems like I stood there forever, though it was likely only a few seconds, enough so the pause was clearly noticeable, but I knew my commitment was to support and defend the Constitution, and whether I agreed with current policy or not, there was a duly elected CIC in office, and thus, it wasn't a conflict of my Oath to obey his lawful orders, regardless of my personal feelings regarding him. So I completed taking the Oath without further hesitation.

I don't think politicians give credence to how solemnly most of us take our Oath. I also think there are some that show much dedication to not only supporting the Constitution, but also to representing those who elected them into office.

Sadly however, too many politicians treat their office as a stepping stone to power or as part of a resume to further their political aspirations, or as a means to a lucrative 'retirement' career as an ambassador, a lobbyist, or with a major industry or other appointment or representation. Their oath, while possibly initially well intended, seems to have lost meaning over the years following, their goals muddied in political quagmire.

This results, in my eyes, in them losing any credibility when it comes time to vote whether they stay in office or not ... sadly, too many of the american public, don't seem to hold politicians to the same ideals as those of us who daily were directly affected by much those politicians did while in their respective office.

For me, this is why I have little faith in much of the political process, but I uphold the Constitution, and I use my power to vote so that I personally maintain my rights to express my choices and opinions in some small way.

My Oath of Enlistment, did not expire. I'm still held to the legality of my previously held security clearances, despite the fact I no longer hold said clearances, why would my Oath be any different, just because I'm no longer actively serving? It was a choice, my choice, and one I hold dear.

That's why you're all still my brothers and sisters in arms, you understand the core of what's in each of us. Despite any personal differences, mostly we recognize the patriotism and commitment, regardless of length of service, whether drafted or volunteer, that willingness, if need by, to commit to such sacrifice, up to & including our lives, is/was, for more than just a paycheck and what we might gain from it.

You all have my gratitude, and respect.

Response by LTC Hillary Luton made Feb 25 at 2015 8:30 AM

2015-02-25T08:30:59-05:00

I'm afraid all too often our politicians get so wrapped up in the job, the social events, the bargaining and grand standing, they forget exactly what they were elected to do. That is, those politicians who ran for office to actually uphold the constitution and the principles it stands for. The rest tend to run for office because of the power they feel it brings them. There are both good and bad politicians. And there are good politicians who become bad politicians.

I think; however, there are a few who know why the constitution is important and why they must defend it. They are usually men and women who, like us, took the above oath as military.

I took the enlisted oath myself when I was 17 and will defend it to the end. And since the military can bring me back on orders any time they want, I will continue to uphold my oath as an officer and live that oath with my every breath. The officer's oath is the same as that of our politicians. It might do our politicians well to have the same dedication to that oath that is expected of our officers.

Just a little interesting history of how that oath came about....

The Constitution contains an oath of office only for the president. For other government officials, including members of Congress, the document specifies only that they "shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation to support the Constitution."

The First Congress, in 1789, reworked this requirement into a simple fourteen-word oath: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States."

At the beginning of the Civil War, Congress expanded the oath. That text is the earliest direct predecessor of the current oath. Then, in August 1862, a section was added, known as the "Ironclad Test Oath."

It required all civil servants and military officers to swear not only to future loyalty, as required by the existing oath, but also to affirm that they had never previously engaged in criminal or disloyal conduct. Those failing to take the 1862 Test Oath would not receive a salary. Ironically, Congress did not extend coverage of the Ironclad Test Oath to its own members.

In 1884, two decades after the Civil War ended, Congress quietly repealed the Test Oath section, leaving intact what is today's current affirmation of constitutional allegiance:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Feb 25 at 2015 9:38 AM

2015-02-25T09:38:02-05:00

In truth, when I was 17 and taking my oath of enlistment, I had no idea what I was saying or what I was swearing that I would do. As I matured, and realized what I had sworn to do and what it means to take an oath, my understanding of what I had said and what I have agreed to do and to risk took on a new meaning.

Today, I know that taking that oath is a very serious responsibility. I fear that many of those taking these oaths do not hold them as seriously as I, BUT I cannot know their heart?

I think we as a Nation do hold a person to the oath that they have taken, and I think it is a black mark on us for allowing our own standards to sink so low.

Response by SGT Richard Domenden made Feb 25 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-02-25T11:58:35-05:00

I agree that many of the politicians do not have a high regards to their oath of office. A great example is the pretender in chief.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Feb 25 at 2015 2:22 PM

2015-02-25T14:22:07-05:00

I took mine in 1975 and still remember that day and those words. I am ashamed that the President and Congress can't seem to remember those words the day after they speak them. Why don't our elected officials face the same punishment for violating that oath that each and every one of us faced???

Response by MSgt Bruce Greene made Feb 25 at 2015 3:14 PM

2015-02-25T15:14:16-05:00

Politicians are there for themselves the words mean nothing to them until the true one% we sear an oath and we mean it and still live by it

Response by PV2 Gary Nixon made Feb 25 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-02-25T15:40:14-05:00

Easy answer. No. The Oath actually means something to military members.

Response by A1C Joe Edwards made Feb 25 at 2015 4:23 PM

2015-02-25T16:23:30-05:00

I still believe in my oath, no matter what may transpire in my life. I voice out against the violations from the government because there are many. I feel very often that our politicians violate the constitution, and the people's trust on an almost daily basis, they should be arrested, and stripped of all privilege, and appointments to their office. about 5 years ago, Iceland had gotten fed up with their politicians and their bankers. The politicians and some bankers were arrested, and thrown out of office. The country declared bankruptcy, getting rid of all their debts, and since then in the past 4 or 5 years has stopped operating in the red, and are now in the black. That is our financial position right now, we are in debt because of our government spending in the wrong places, and their financial irresponsibility, it is unsustainable at any level. It must be fixed, because the top 1 percent of the top 1 percent of the wealthy, the banking institutions, the lobbyists, and corrupt politicians have put us into this position and need to be held accountable, and I don't mean a slap on the wrist and to be free to do it all over again.
How many signs do we need to wake the rest of the population to what is going on. I have an officer friend who says that we have become a corporation going back to the ending of the civil war when we borrowed money to pay off war debts. The second thing we are in trouble with is that since WWII, and the adoption of the UN, which was previously the league of nations, we have allowed outside interference with our constitution, and the laws that maintain our sovereignty. We need to dump the UN as it is a playground for politicians to play with the lives of everyone on the planet, they have an agenda to strip every nation into one global government.
Allen West,( and I believe he has the best intentions by bringing this up as the only way to correct our corrupted government) and several other high ranking military, and some politicians who are somewhat onboard with the Article 5 of the constitution want to convene a Constitutional Convention of States, to reset the constitution, to get us back on track. As long as the Convention isn't some circus show to appease the American people, and we have a right to tell the government that we don't want our founding principals changed to this massive spiderweb of laws and litigation that leaves loopholes and misconceptions to what our standing as citizens is and should be as a free people, it might just succeed. The government does not at this point in time have our best interests at heart, they are thinking of how to screw us over as Americans, and line their pockets and the pockets of their cronies at our expense. How many plans (Failed plans from the start) have they pushed for and cost the American taxpayer more than could be afforded?
We now have in the past years with the new agencies, DHS for one, and there are many more sub branches, work under the guise of national security, all the while stripping us and violating us of our constitutional rights. We are not becoming a police state, we are a police state, and these agencies are not taking the same oath to protect this country, they are swearing to do the will of their masters. They should be disbanded, because they are not a constitutional agency.
Politicians who get involved with and support these unconstitutional agencies should be hung out to dry, as much of this is treason against the American people.
OK that's my first amendment right, right there. Some of you may agree, some of you may not. But the case in point is this.....Are you willing to follow unconstitutional orders, and violate the rights, and lives of the people and the country we swore to protect, or are you willing to turn your guns on them?
Ok off my soap box

Response by Capt Al Parker made Feb 25 at 2015 4:55 PM

2015-02-25T16:55:43-05:00

As my Commission is indefinite so is my Oath.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Feb 25 at 2015 7:14 PM

2015-02-25T19:14:02-05:00

I have challenged not only elected officials, but Federal and State employees when they violate their oaths. These violations constitute fiduciary violations - the questions arise how fiduciary violations are to be dealt with. The practical answer is they do not - but I have used this argument as a legal objection in certain matters and it has stymied any further action. There lots of Constitutional issues that exist, but getting them to be addressed is easier than divining the future. Unless, of course, I need that argument to make my case...

Response by CPO Michael Broekhof made Feb 25 at 2015 8:44 PM

2015-02-25T20:44:47-05:00

The oath meant nothing to me as a young Sailor. As I grew older in the Navy I began to learn more about respect, history and mentor-ship. Now I believe I have a much better understanding of what the Forefathers really intended. It is truly a pity that career politicians seem to miss the point of this Federation... Freedom is not free. Oaths mean nothing in DC.

Response by PO2 Mark Arnold made Feb 25 at 2015 10:50 PM

2015-02-25T22:50:50-05:00

Politicians take an oath???

Response by PO2 Mark Arnold made Feb 25 at 2015 10:51 PM

2015-02-25T22:51:48-05:00

Politicians take an oath???

Response by CW3 William Couch made Feb 25 at 2015 11:20 PM

2015-02-25T23:20:31-05:00

I believe for most of us the oath we took was important and literally meant all we staked our integrity on. I still feel this way today. We do unfortunately live in a time where our elected officials do not have any integrity and do not believe in any oath they take. To be elected for them is a step toward propelling them into power and money not for the people. This will in the end fail them and of course our declining nation. I cannot explain how I feel when I think of the countless lives that have been sacrificed for these without Honor, Integrity or Faithfulness.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 9:15 AM

2015-02-27T09:15:50-05:00

Some do.

But expecting forthrightness on any question from a politician is generally a fool's errand.

Response by SPC Nathaniel Reynolds made Feb 27 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-02-27T13:57:10-05:00

I recall when I enlisted in the Army in 99 and then the Air Force Reserves in 2003 that it was ". . . that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the lawful orders of the President of the United States and the lawful orders of the officers appointed over me..." When did this change to remove lawful before orders? This is important, because when it was lawful orders it protects you against UCMJ for refusing to say shoot American civilians because the tyranical President has ordered all American's who stand against his rule to be arrested and shot if they resist...just curious.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 14 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-04-14T20:37:22-04:00

The day a politician has to take a bullet because they took the oath .. then they are equal.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Apr 14 at 2015 10:07 PM

2015-04-14T22:07:31-04:00

Unfortunately, I believe that for too many politicians, the oath of office is just a check the box action to get the office and the power they are after. These types need to be identified as domestic enemies and removed from office by those who know and take the oath of office seriously. It is our constitutional duty.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 14 at 2015 11:51 PM

2015-04-14T23:51:20-04:00

I think in the case where the politicians and military service members are one and the same, yes. There was a time when politicians were more often either former military, or somehow connected closely to the military either through blood or business connections. Those days are quickly becoming a thing of the past, though.

Response by TSgt David L. made Apr 15 at 2015 12:20 AM

2015-04-15T00:20:20-04:00

That's a big Negative. It's pretty obvious that they politicians tell us what we want to hear and then continue to lie for the rest of there terms. And we are stupid enough to vote and vote again...

Response by SGT James Hastings made Apr 15 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-04-15T15:03:38-04:00

It has become a joke, taking an oath of office by a politician. If there was some law that would allow the People, who elected them, to charge them with not obeying their oath then maybe, just maybe, it would have some sobering effect on those who run for and obtain office. Lincoln laid it out, "Government of the People, for the People and by the People." In his day congress probably rode the trolley to office and back: at their own expense. Benjamin Franklin didn't want them to work for money but was overruled and they gave them a pittance which now has grown out of sight. Talk about CEO's making so much more than their employees!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 15 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-04-15T18:08:42-04:00

I have often thought the military is the keeper of the nations values.

Response by SSG David Ursini made Apr 15 at 2015 10:23 PM

2015-04-15T22:23:06-04:00

Hardly....you need look no further than the current POTUS who violates his constitutional oath daily... A far cry from President Kennedy who was committed to supporting the Constitution. Military service members take their oath seriously and most understand what a lawful order is....not to mention the Pride they share during and after service.

Response by SFC Jeremy Smith made Apr 20 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-04-20T14:06:04-04:00

The main thing we all do or swear an oath to is the support and defense of that document.

Response by Capt Al Parker made Apr 22 at 2015 5:49 PM

2015-04-22T17:49:46-04:00

Congress sells their oaths for votes or money, the GI only has his/her/it's life to bargain with and the Leadership has proved it doesn't care!

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 10 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-05-10T12:33:12-04:00

The oath of a politician is supposedly golden, IMO, the politician him/herself is worthless. The fact that some have been bought, sold and/or traded by one special interest group to another is and has been something that has worried me as a citizen since I learned how to critically think for myself.

Our freedoms are being impinged by these same individuals that are supposedly in service to us as citizens. When the day comes that our government actually upholds the ideals that this nation was founded upon things will get better. Until then, well, to probably misquote an old movie line "Buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride." So much for my .02

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2015 4:18 PM

2015-05-10T16:18:24-04:00

Politicians are professional liars, and can't be trusted to tell the truth. Let alone keep their oath!

Response by Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. made May 10 at 2015 4:43 PM

2015-05-10T16:43:33-04:00

Having taken both the enlisted and officer's Oaths, the Oath for active duty Reserve and Regular officers Officers is different: I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Officers in the National Guard of the various states: "I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of ___ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of ___, that I make this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the Office of [grade] in the Army/Air National Guard of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of ___ upon which I am about to enter, so help me God."

Congress saw a need for the officers of the Military to be bound to the Constitution and not to be bound to the President or officers over them when when actions conflict with the Constitution. However, history has examples of where officers followed orders which later created a stain on the military because the required action did not support the Constitutional rights of citizens. If need be I can provide three historic examples just within the United States.

Officers do not have an exclusive defense of " I was following orders." Officer not only have legal authority but moral authority which they may exercise but their decision can later be challenged.

When teaching Senior ROTC cadets, some cadets would question why enlisted but not officer oaths were different in regard to the following orders. With the enlistment oath including the requirement to follow the orders of the President, could such orders override the orders of their military officers?

Response by LTC Stephen C. made May 14 at 2015 10:33 PM

2015-05-14T22:33:16-04:00

SSG Gerhard S., this comment has no place on this discussion thread, but I thought you might be interested to see it anyway. I had to take one additional oath in addition to the oath of enlistment and the oath of office. As a detailed inspector general, one must swear an additional oath before the commanding general that you serve. As far as I know, this is totally unique to the Office of the Inspector General. I served as a detailed IG in the 95th Division (TNG) and the 125th Army Reserve Command. Each time, I swore this oath before the CG of each command!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 11:57 PM

2015-05-14T23:57:10-04:00

Take their oaths as seriously as the military? They don't take them seriously at all for the most part. Sure, there are a few that want to do good, but at some point they all just get caught up in playing politics. People look at some of the Presidential candidates and they get all concerned because the candidate has only served one term or so in federal office. Maybe I'm crazy (probably, in fact), but I'd call that a good thing.

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Jul 30 at 2015 5:47 PM

2015-07-30T17:47:38-04:00

It sure would be nice if "false swearing" were an indictable offense.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Jul 30 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-07-30T17:54:29-04:00

The military does. Sadly elected leadership does not.

Response by Sgt Mitchell Sporar made Jul 30 at 2015 8:35 PM

2015-07-30T20:35:50-04:00

It's not even close.

For the career politicians, it's nothing more than the recital of a bunch of words (with the possible exception of 3% to 5%).
For the military, we definitely take it seriously (with the definite exception of 3% to 5%).

Response by A1C Joe Edwards made Aug 20 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-08-20T15:18:00-04:00

This must be another question of redundancy. I don't think politicians give a rat's ass about the oath they swear, to them it's just a formality that has no meaning. I can't say that it's all of them but for the new ones, it may hold truer because they haven't been corrupted by the political machine......YET
As far as our military commanders, And you can bet you ass I'm going to say it, I don't understand why they haven't stepped up to do their sworn duty, and used the power given to them to arrest, remove, and replace these liars in office, the thieves who are perverting our country and her laws.
It seems that all of our lower military are held accountable for their actions from the day they get their head shaved in basic training, until they retire, die, or are discharged from service, Why are politicians so exempt?
We would not be in the predicament nationally or globally if our government wasn't bought and paid for by big corporations and lobbyists, they are just plain crooked. I have a friend who says we are being run illegally since we borrowed money from France to pay off our war debts in the 1800's. Since then, we have been run by outside influences.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 20 at 2015 5:08 PM

2015-08-20T17:08:18-04:00

In Vietnam I shared a hooch with the division reenlistment officer. Inasmuch as he was usually wandering around the countryside when a soldier showed up to reenlist, the reenlistment NCOIC would bring the young soldier to me to administer the oath. I performed this duty frequently enough to have memorized it and could focus my attention on the enlistees eyes as he followed me in reciting it. I was always taken with the seriousness of the moment, a seriousness that the enlistee shared. We were linked eye-to-eye on those occasions. I have watched many politicians take their oaths of office and never seen the same intensity. For them it seems for of a photo op, receiving their trophy after winning the electoral fight. Not the same thing, not at all...

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Aug 20 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-08-20T17:32:25-04:00

The military way of life is not for everybody. As veterans and Servicemembers, we are that 1% of America that took the oath of enlistment/officer. We take the oath again when we are elected officials representing our veterans organizations, communities, districts, State and nation. What is this oath?

However, there is perception from the military side that is uncommon with the civilian side when it comes to taking the oath prior to military service. I believe that it is not so much defining the Constitution but the sense of belonging to the organization, either military or elected government official... as a rite of passage in taking the oath; protecting and defending the Constitution. But what is this Constitution? We all talk about taking the oath protecting and defending the Constitution, but what is it? I don't remember my Sergeant sitting me down or talking in formation about defining the U. S Constitution. Did yours? It wasn't until many years later, that I learned what our U. S Constitution is as it relates to life in America here and abroad.

With all the rewards of traditions, and ceremonies, military folks celebrate taking the oath as part of their everyday niche. What is it that we are all sworn to do for what? When I was in the military, we did not challenge the sworn oath. We didn't discuss the U. S Constitution either. Why? Because its not the question of why, but protecting and defending something worth dying for? Is that it? So pur-civilians (non-vets) do not understand the concept of blind-discipline to die for a cause they do not understand?

Today, how many of us veterans, Servicemembers and politicians really know the U.S Constitution? Out of that population, how many of us are educating and learning what this Constitution really means in today's free and open society? World? Other organization? As military personnel, we have limited rights? So why should we take an oath or swear by... for limited rights? Oh...because someone says so?

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Aug 20 at 2015 6:35 PM

2015-08-20T18:35:25-04:00

Sadly, it is my observation that too many politicians seem to see the oath of office merely as an act required, checking the box, a formality, to get into the office, which they seek for personal gain and prestige, rather then to serve the people and push towards the greater good. That is clearly the difference between George H.W. Bush, a true public servant, and Barak Husain Obama, a true self servant.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-08-20T19:11:49-04:00

Politicians? Give a shit about their oaths? Hell no! They have forsaken their oaths for money and power.

Response by LCpl Tom Goudey made Aug 20 at 2015 8:25 PM

2015-08-20T20:25:56-04:00

Oaths mean nothing to them, here is a quote that can easily be found that Henry Kissinger said.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 20 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-08-20T20:37:34-04:00

Our politicians give credence to themselves and those who write big checks... The old joke "What's the first thing a Congressperson does after inauguration? Starts their re-election campaign...

Response by SPC Thomas Baldwin made Aug 20 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-08-20T20:37:48-04:00

They did, but too much politics diluted the integrity of the political side do to special interest groups. I rather have a President that only served one term who made the right choice even if it cost them reelection.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Aug 21 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-08-21T14:40:19-04:00

NO!!!! Nor do so many of the people in Agencies promulgating illegal or immoral policies and procedures. Fiduciary violations for us were court-martial offenses - for those employed as civilians, it is another meaningless promise.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Aug 21 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-08-21T16:07:27-04:00

A few thoughts on how military and politicians look at their oaths of offices:
- Military personnel are court martialed and sent to prison for violating their oaths (criminal offense) Less than a criminal offense but an ethical violation is generally shunned. Politicians remain in their jobs and are rarely prosecuted much less imprisoned (criminal offense). Ethical violations are rarely shunned and often seem to be condoned to some level.
- Most military personnel can recite their oath from memory. Most politicians must have their oaths read to them if they ever are aware of them.
- Most military personnel receive some sort of training or LPD regarding their oath at some point in their service. I doubt that any politicians receive any sort of training what soever.
- Military personnel lead and are lead and therefore have to live under whatever they dictate or enforce. Many politicians craft laws that apply to everyone else but not to them (minimum wage laws, health care, travel guidance).

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Aug 21 at 2015 4:46 PM

2015-08-21T16:46:21-04:00

Does not appear so to me...but I cannot see into their hearts (this assumes they have a heart)?

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Aug 22 at 2015 10:21 PM

2015-08-22T22:21:50-04:00

Politicians are more involved in the "What's good for me and mine" game than taking care of our nation. The office of the President, Congress, House of Reps is just a big theatre show put on by the Puppet Masters. Limit all political positions to a certain amount of years, Fire the Federal Reserve ( They are no more part of the Government than Fed-X is) Put the printing of money back into the Government's hands instead of borrowing from an elite group of bankers who's only real interest is calling the shots so they can amass more wealth and power. We military individuals hold that oath as sacred as we do the Constitution. Politicians will use it if it betters their status and wealth, otherwise it may as well be toilet paper to them.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 23 at 2015 6:26 AM

2015-08-23T06:26:20-04:00

I like the Oath. I like how our Military is Organized. Officers are appointed by Congress and their promotions are approved by Congress but they have sworn allegiance to the President so they have to dance a Razors Edge (I've seen how that played out during my 21 years). We enlisted guys are appointed and advanced by testing and those officers and nco's over us so we are not so tied directly to the political process but we have sworn an allegiance to the Constitution and the President which is good. Having said all that I am a German American and very much aware how in History an Oath was used and abused. "I am Germany and Germany is Me and you will swear an Oath to me, recognizing that fact" Yeah Focusing on an Oath without perspective can be a very dangerous thing.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Aug 27 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-08-27T12:57:02-04:00

No. No politician in the last 100 years has ever taken that oath as seriously as a military member when they speak it.

Response by SFC Wade W. made Nov 19 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-11-19T14:15:12-05:00

No. Politicians say what they need to, including oaths, to gain power.

Response by Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. made Nov 27 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-11-27T12:10:52-05:00

I indeed take my oath very seriously. While my oath in my enlisted years read as previously stated, my oath as an officer supersedes that oath and it does not state “that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me." It says:

“I, (state your name), having been appointed a (rank) in the United States (branch of service), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

There are reasons which were taught (or at least used to be) to officers before they took the oath of office. Officers have both legal and moral authority, and if situations require, they may have to exercise their "moral authority." They may expect that later they may be called upon to give evidence as to why they exercised that moral authority.

SSG Seidel is indeed correct that "that the federal government has FAR exceeded its Constitutional boundaries" and that elected and appointed members of office generally do not consider their oaths as limiting. Most of them appear after the fact to have seen the oath as some perfunctory item in a right of passage to the office for which they campaigned or were appointed and not a duty to country. While the oath of president and the very responsibility of the office was a heavy weight for many presidents in the past, it appears to have become in recent years a meaningless ceremonial experience which provides no limits for many elected or appointed government officials.

In recent years, there may be pomp and ceremony at the White House. However, there is little substance when it comes to following the Constitution or the laws of our country. And this tarnish has spread across the department and agencies of government.

Response by SFC Brian Ewing made Nov 29 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-11-29T12:06:44-05:00

Simply put, NO!! The obvious appearance of this shows when it comes to servicemembers seeking a pay raise at the end of the fiscal year, Congress (Politicians) readily votes themselves a raise while strenuously debate whether or not to give us a few crumbs.

In order to defend the Constitution it comes with a price not only paid for in blood but also paid for monetarily. People want to feel that their lives are worth just a few dollars more and their families have even more of a desire for that worth when we step out onto the battlefield.

Ask any family that has lost a loved one who served if they feel they should have gotten a little more while their son/daughter was serving and you'll get the true answer immediately.

Everything comes with a price, these Congressmen/Congresswomen/Senators don't hesitate to vote themselves a raise. They should do the same when it comes to us.

Sorry I know this wasn't the typical response.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Dec 18 at 2015 12:29 AM

2015-12-18T00:29:41-05:00

Very seriously. I don't recall it having an expiration date or any other "get out" clause. 20 years after retirement I feel it is still binding and will be until I die.

I feel traitors to the Constitution should be given a due process legal trial for Treason and suffer the consequences if convicted---especially if they are people we have trusted to "lead" us, meaning politicians. Represent us is more accurate, and I find them all regardless of party affiliation to be self-serving liars almost without exception. I don't know of any exceptions, I just don't want to believe there are NONE who are not treasonous liars, surely there are a few.

As for the attacks on the Second Amendment, it isn't about guns at all, but about control. That and naive people without a clue spouting the nonsense they heard on TV, and being scared of what are to them scary things. There are some who favor gun control who just want to suck all the joy out of life for everyone they perceive to be on the "right" (stupid term, right of whom?), some who are just clueless followers, and, I truly believe we are living all the bad parts of the movie "Idiocracy" because the average IQ seems to have dropped about 40 points since the 1980's.

Many on the left politically would describe themselves as Socialists. Here's an interesting thought experiment to perform if someone does claim to be a Socialist-ask them it its like the USSR Socialists, or the National Socialists. I did that, and when the person said, "not the Russians, so I guess the National Socialists" and I said "You know that's the Nazi's, right?" they nearly cried. Hitler was as far to the Left as it gets, and many of the current crop are hardly any better, just less powerful. Think the Left wouldn't put everyone pro-gun an a camp if they could? Think the Right wouldn't charge anyone associated with an abortion with Capital Murder if they could? Being fair, the political "right" is no better than the Left, demanding one follow their particular brand of magical thinking BY LAW in many cases. I refer the reader to my comment above about the average IQ. Do we have NO reasonable people who will just get up off their government by agenda and let the rest of us live unhindered? I guess I have insulted the Right, the Left, and some in the Middle, so I am certainly being fair with my politically incorrect Blasphemy of the prevailing new religion, which I chose to call "Stupidism". Perhaps "Dumbassery" would be better.

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Dec 18 at 2015 8:23 AM

2015-12-18T08:23:21-05:00

I seriously took my oath of office and still do. The truth is that leftist politicians have never had any credibility and no one really expects much credibility from politicians in any case. It has come to be accepted that it is a rare day that they don't violate their oaths.

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Dec 18 at 2015 8:37 AM

2015-12-18T08:37:15-05:00

The truth is that not all politicians violate their oaths, but those who do smear reputations of the other 3% who don't!

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Dec 18 at 2015 8:41 AM

2015-12-18T08:41:28-05:00

The two differences between a politician and a statesman are that 1) A politician looks only as far ahead as the next election while the statesman looks as far ahead as at least the next generation. 2) The statesman is much like the unicorn - frequently cited but rarely sighted.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Dec 18 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-12-18T10:45:15-05:00

FYI, commissioned officers swear the same Oath as congressmen and other government officials. Only the POTUS has a different Oath.

Response by CW3 Guy Snodgrass made Dec 22 at 2015 7:53 AM

2015-12-22T07:53:21-05:00

I take my oath seriously. Puns on Facebook quip that "I haven't been relieved of that oath". That is how I feel about my oath yet today. In my opinion, all politicians have lost "credibility". When they use their positions for personal gain rather than the improvement of our great country, they have no credibility as far as I'm concern. Our political leaders need to stop putting themselves and special interest groups first, and take care of America. If they do not, I feel that we are headed on a slippery slope south.

Response by MAJ Walter Meczywor made Jan 7 at 2016 2:46 PM

2016-01-07T14:46:08-05:00

Fairly simple and straightforward.
For those of us who served, selfless service to our country, our Constitution and to our brothers & sisters in arms
For the politicians, self interest. Period.

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Dec 5 at 2020 3:25 AM

2020-12-05T03:25:48-05:00

to compare the military oath to whatever farce politicians play, is demeaning . politicians lie when taking an oath and go on lying during the rest of their life .

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Dec 27 at 2020 9:38 PM

2020-12-27T21:38:30-05:00

Never going to happen, military oath means you are there for your brothers and sisters. Your life depends on it. Politicians take an oath to only people who support him or her., Not all the people they represent! Difference, life or death, or political power its been that way as long as I have been around, 71 years. I have seen some prior service politicians change with power.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Jan 8 at 2021 12:25 PM

2021-01-08T12:25:19-05:00

Don't hold your breath on that one with elected members of State and Federal government.

Response by SGT Cy Sturgis made Jan 28 at 2021 1:26 PM

2021-01-28T13:26:21-05:00

I take my oath very seriously. I have never been relieved of my obligations under that oath even though I took it more than 50 years ago. It seems most politicians and Supreme Court Justices today treat that same oath as a punchline and it breaks my heart.